[UPDATE] End the Bush/Clinton Dynasty
by Vox Populi, Wed Nov 21, 2007 at 09:48:52 AM EST
Watch the following Citizen Web Ad:
Tags: Barack Obama, dynasty, Election 2008, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards (all tags)
by Vox Populi, Wed Nov 21, 2007 at 09:48:52 AM EST
Watch the following Citizen Web Ad:
Tags: Barack Obama, dynasty, Election 2008, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards (all tags)
I'm a big fan of the Godfather. But Bush/Clinton has been around since before I was born. It's time for something new.
<ping!> In which case, I give you the Ron Paul presidency.
One really should be careful about what one wishes for.
I find the whole two-family thing to be a red herring stuffed inside a pinata.
It's not a question of two families but who's running for the Democrats. Period. If you don't like Hillary, fine...vote against her in the primary. Personally, I've taken the measure of Hillary and prefer her to both Obama and Edwards and as the campaign has gone on that preference has become more marked. It doesn't matter to me whether Hillary is a Clinton or a Yournamehere.
I'm not sure how persuasive it would be to anyone who isn't already persuaded.
Here's my question, though: If you're saying Clinton wouldn't be a big change from Bush, aren't you saying Bush really wasn't a big change from Clinton? Is that really a message you think you can sell?
I'm saying I want an end to dynasty. I don't care what their politics are, they're both corporate, they're both pro-war, and they're both corrupt.
And yes, I'll hold my nose and vote Clinton is she's the Dem nominee. I'll just be really disappointed with myself.
you need to look up the meaning of the word dynasty.
Then please examine her record. Continue this nonsense line of thinking and you should be voting Nader in no time. You simply have no clue what you are talking about.
But you do make a fine case for raising the voting age to 30
Right! Even Joe Lieberman would be a big change from Bush, but that's obviously not saying much.
the two headed monster, a duopoly, two different sides of the same coin, she owns stock in Occidental petroleum... er, never mind
That there was not a dimes worth of difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush. They were both corporatists we were told.
Look what it got us.
I know you don't think that Gore is the same as Bush, but how soon people forget. I am starting to hear the same crap now 7 years later, "there is no difference between CLinton and Bush."
People who say that need to see a specialist.
Just curious but who said there wasn't a difference? I skimmed the posts here again and didn't see anyone say that.
That arguement, which you have heard, "there is no difference" goes hand in hand with your "dynasty" stuff.
i'd say this is far superior to the 'volvo driving, latte-drinking, NYT reading, east coast liberal' ad bash that we saw 4 years ago. (that was was made by the dem machine--this ad targets the dem machine. about time.)
thanks for sharing!
ABC : is my motto.
Nothing is inherently wrong with dynasties.
There're just alot inherently wrong with Hillary.
Great Diary Vox. I agree with your assessments. It is time that another family got a chance at the White House.
What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result!!
I will AGAIN offer my points on this nonsense.
1) The Bush and the Clinton are different families, from different parties with different politics. Saying Bush / Clinton makes it seems like they are connected, which for them to be a dynasty they would have to be. They are not. Its a bogus charge.
The only people who would claim they are the same are the filthy Narerites who also claimed that there was no difference (not a dimes worth) between Gore and Bush. I think even the not so bright among us here can see that the stinking Naderites were out to lunch, as usual, on that call.
2) Nobody cried foul when Shrub ran. Not you, not anyone else. Nobody said no, or that it was too soon after his dad, etc. This is just a weak arguement made by those that oppose Clinton.
3) This is the most important one. WE DON'T HAVE DYNASTIES IN THIS COUNTRY! We have a democracy. Clinton as a RIGHT to run. People have a RIGHT to vote for her or for someone else.
And thankfully, I have a right to produce a video and have a right to be confronted by you about my use of rhetoric. Is Bush/Clinton a "dynasty" according to the dictionary? No. Is using that as a rhetorical device helpful for my point? Yes.
"Filthy Naderites"? Wow. Of course there's a dime's worth of difference between the two. But just a dime's worth. And yes, people WERE saying it's time for someone new, time to end the nepotism, etc, when Bush the Second ran. They said the same thing when Ted Kennedy ran in 1980. They said the same thing when John Quincy Adams ran too. I'm afraid that charge wasn't created just for Hillary Clinton.
How in the world was Teddy going to be a dynasty? JFK didn't serve a full term and that was 17 yrs. before Teddy. Poor Robert got killed for his vision before he even had a chance to serve, and that was 12 yrs. before Teddy. That just makes no sense whatsoever.
Besides, I would much rather have had 24 yrs of Kennedys than 28 yrs. of Clinton and Bush!!
We're more likely to get a Stephen Bryer than a Thurgood Marshall. Sad.
Unfortunately a lot of people on this board and in the nation, think that if HRC is the nominee we will get another Sam Alito.
A lot of people, myuself included, believe that HRC's "unfavorable ratings" are so high that she simply stands no chance of winning the general election. Thus electing another Republican and another Sam Alito like Justice. Right or wrong, the corporate media hates her and will run a never ending anti Hill and Bill parade of smears and attacks. it will be the f**king blue dress all over again.
I have a huge fear that the Republicans are armed to the teeth with anti Hillary ads, smears and re hashes elections past. They've been planning on this for years and are well armed.
Let's force them to fight someone they never expected or armed for.
Edwards, Obama, Biden, Richardson, Dodd.....
Oh yes I did!! I hated that that fool ran and got elected. Yes, I did cry foul, and warned of many of the things that have since traspired. You can say what you want but if we have the same two families running this country for 28 yrs., I find that unsettling.
2) Nobody cried foul when Shrub ran. Not you, not anyone else. Nobody said no, or that it was too soon after his dad, etc. This is just a weak arguement made by those that oppose Clinton.
I sure did, and so did many other people. I think I was 13 at the time. The only reason that George W. got into the white house is because of pure nepotism. That's deeply corrosive to our democracy.
I don't have such a big problem with a Hillary Clinton presidency, actually. Still the fact is that she is only in a position to be president because her husband was president before her. And yes there is something disquieting, and anti-progressive, about that.
Clinton as a RIGHT to run. People have a RIGHT to vote for her or for someone else.
That's certainly true. Nobody's suggesting there should be a law barring wives from running for their husband's previous office. As you said, people have a right to vote against Clinton, and the dynasty argument is a valid reason why not to.
His dad who couldn't win two terms got him in?
If the old man had that kind of clout why didn't he secure a second term for himself?
His dad who couldn't win two terms got him in?
Uh, yes? Unless you think a mediocre man like George W. Bush could have become Governor of Texas, much less the POTUS, without his daddy's name and his daddy's connections? How could you believe otherwise? Dubya is the very opposite of a self-made man. Compare him with Bill Clinton, who come from nothing and by his own sheer talent and effort succeeded in becoming the most powerful man in the world. If George W. Bush had born a poor boy in Arkansas nobody would have ever heard of him.
anybody with a sense of decency would never have buddied up to bush senior like bill clinton did.
seems like the ultimate in desperation for Obama and Edwards supporters. Hillary is playing within the system. She has worked hard to be where she's at at the front of the Democratic field. "No Dynasty" just seems like you're saying "No fair Hillary, you're the wife of the former President". It's a bunch of whining as far as I'm concerned.
Great video--put it on all the airwaves for next two weeks every hour.We are a better nation than having to put up with more crap.As for me am not going to hold my nose and vote. We can do write in if it is Clinton. She is tiresome and wears badly--not to mention she is the choice of the people in charge of this country--and we know how committed they are to our interests.
Her whole life a man has been in the White House.
No.
No.
NO!!!!
It wasn't an authorization vote.
Look it up!!
History disagrees with you. Why does this have to be about her gender? I don't care what gender my president is. I care that they have good judgement and humility in the event of bad judgement. She doesn't. She laughs off serious questions.
Actually, the AUMF disagrees with you, but then you were never actually interested in facts that didn't suit your predetermined purpose.
Everyone knew what that vote was about. Bush had made it abundantly clear he was bound and determined to invade Iraq. Just because they included some ass-covering language doesn't change the truth of the situation.
Bush made it abundantly clear after Blix was gearing to begin inspections, after Congress had passed authorization, precisely because of Congress' successful leverage placed on the UN Security Council which had blocked further sanctions. It's funny to me how easily people forget the 5 months absent any war between the authorization and the invasion when the press had declared Bush "the great internationalist" who was determined to work with the world community, etc. etc. You can't just steamroll over all of the facts to come to a conclusion that ignores the intention and the context of everyone's vote.
Her vote condemns Iranian force operations as commanders on the ground have continually asserted finding evidence of, as they watch their troops get blown up by roadside bombs from Iran. There's absolutely no authorization for any war at all in Iran. Congress has a role in overseeing American foreign policy, but none in conducting it: the resolution was purely a symbolic sense gesture of the Congress. She has called for 'robust diplomacy' which involves engaging Iran both positively in talks, encouraging an amicable end to the nuclear plans dispute and taking a stand economically where there is evidence that they are undermining our efforts in Iraq.
Honestly, I can understand why she voted for it but I wish the Resolution hadn't made it to the floor in the first place-- it doesn't feel like it's the right time (unless they know something that I don't)...
Her vote condemns Iranian force operations as commanders on the ground have continually asserted finding evidence of, as they watch their troops get blown up by roadside bombs from Iran.
when asked for proof for evidence of iran complicity, the same general were unable to do so.
it's the saudis have helped to fund and arm insurgents in iraq. why is the entire establishment structure of both parties (as well as the media) not holding the saudis to task for this and condemning them for it?
we know why. they're holding us over the barrel (of oil). we need to break the chains of being held hostage to opec.
hillary lending credence to bush effort to present iran as boggie man, only adds fuel to the drive to conflict.
her iran vote not only revealed her aipac sympathies, this saber rattling vote benefitted opec and domestic oil in giving them an excuse to raise their prices, citing faux supply concerns.
while the clintons were in the whitehouse, there was not one iota of fuel mileage improvement (cafe standards) achieved. is this why saudi royals tripped over one another helping to fund bill clinton's monument to ego- his library?
now hillary is trying to present herself as committed to the environment when the record of doing is sorely lacking.
There have been numerous accounts from the army. If it's your belief that they are lying, that's your deal.
It'd help if you posted links so that I can see if I care or that they are credible...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/ 2006-12-08-saudis-sunnis_x.htm
CAIRO (AP) -- Private Saudi citizens are giving millions of dollars to Sunni insurgents in Iraq and much of the money is used to buy weapons, including shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles, according to key Iraqi officials and others familiar with the flow of cash.
Saudi government officials deny that any money from their country is being sent to Iraqis fighting the government and the U.S.-led coalition.
But the U.S. Iraq Study Group report said Saudis are a source of funding for Sunni Arab insurgents. Several truck drivers interviewed by The Associated Press described carrying boxes of cash from Saudi Arabia into Iraq, money they said was headed for insurgents.
Two high-ranking Iraqi officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the issue's sensitivity, told the AP most of the Saudi money comes from private donations, called zaqat, collected for Islamic causes and charities.
Some Saudis appear to know the money is headed to Iraq's insurgents, but others merely give it to clerics who channel it to anti-coalition forces, the officials said.
In one recent case, an Iraqi official said $25 million in Saudi money went to a top Iraqi Sunni cleric and was used to buy weapons, including Strela, a Russian shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missile. The missiles were purchased from someone in Romania, apparently through the black market, he said.
No. Bush made it abundantly clear before congress had passed him authorization, before Powell went to the U.N. before all of that.
And when did the press declare Bush "the great internationalist?" You can't just make stuff up like that and expect to be taken seriously. Some in the press may have been so stupid as to have said something like that, but that's not the way the bulk of the press coverage went.
No. Bush made it abundantly clear before congress had passed him authorization, before Powell went to the U.N. before all of that.
The only one making things up is you. Frankly, I suggest you do a Lexis-Nexis search and reacquaint yourself with what happened and the stories that appeared in the press. Bush was called a "Wilsonian" multilateralist who had assured Congress repeatedly before and after authorization that AUMF was to leverage the UN Security Council to mandate inspections, as it did. Here is a list of some citations found within a 30 minute perusal since I'm just making things up--
December 7, 2002 Saturday
"Bush says war with Iraq last option"
BYLINE: By KATHY A. GAMBRELL
LENGTH: 490 words
DATELINE: WASHINGTON, Dec. 7 (UPI)
The Press (Christchurch)
December 4, 2002, Wednesday
"Bush keeps up pressure on Saddam Bush keeps pressure on after cameras lost"
SECTION: NEWS; INTERNATIONAL; Pg. 1; CITY EXTRA EDITION; CE
LENGTH: 710 words
St. John's Telegram (Newfoundland)
December 19, 2002 Thursday Final Edition
"Bush not yet ready to trigger war: UN weapons inspections"
SOURCE: The Associated Press
SECTION: News; Pg. B6
LENGTH: 777 words
DATELINE: WASHINGTON
USA TODAY
December 4, 2002, Wednesday, FINAL EDITION
"Arms accounting key step in path to war or peace"
BYLINE: Bill Nichols
SECTION: NEWS; Pg. 8A
LENGTH: 1214 words
San Gabriel Valley Tribune (San Gabriel Valley, CA)
December 18, 2002 Wednesday
"Bush decides no immediate war with Iraq"
BYLINE: By Ron Fournier AP White House Correspondent
SECTION: PM UPDATES
LENGTH: 909 words
The Boston Globe
September 12, 2002, Thursday ,THIRD EDITION
"ANNAN TO URGE CAUTION TO US PLANS TO ASK UN STATES FOR MULTILATERAL SOLUTIONS"
BYLINE: By Elizabeth Neuffer, Globe Staff
SECTION: NATIONAL/FOREIGN; Pg. A3
LENGTH: 477 words
Christian Science Monitor (Boston, MA)
November 20, 2002, Wednesday
"Muzzling unilateral instinct with multilateral charm"
BYLINE: By John Hughes
SECTION: OPINION; Pg. 11
LENGTH: 771 words
DATELINE: SALT LAKE CITY
Toronto Star
September 15, 2002 Sunday Ontario Edition
"U.S. and U.N. form odd alliance"
BYLINE: Richard Gwyn, Toronto Star
SECTION: OPINION; Pg. A13
LENGTH: 820 words
Bush said lots of things, and the press reported on it of course. But it took pressure from his own party to even get him to pretend to take a diplomatic approach.
And everyone who had a brain saw that. And whatever else you can say about Hillary Clinton she certainly has a brain.
He publicly made concessions to Democrats on the Hill to take a diplomatic approach toward the so-called Iraq crisis before any authorization was passed. You can swear up and down that everybody knew they were going to go to war despite Bush's continual statements to the contrary, but the question at the time in Oct-2002 was still how to get inspectors on the ground in Iraq. The AUMF's near term goal was to do that, and it did: the UN Security Council was going forward with the wishes of the Congress in the 5 months between authorization and invasion. It wasn't until early 2003 that things started to change as the Bush Administration publicly indicated that it had no intention of seeing the diplomatic course through.
This is not a question of intelligence and I find it rather silly that you would just treat this discussion as though because Bush invaded, it was obvious from the beginning that that's what he publicly made certain from the start. It doesn't hold any water. Sorry.
Even Ted Kennedy knew it, and he's not exactly the brightest lamp in the stadium. I knew it. Hillary knew it too. Seriously, didn't you know it at that time? Did you really not understand what that vote meant at that time?
Any promises he made were like a heroin addict saying, "yeah, yeah, I'll watch your stash. I promise! No. No. I won't touch it I swear."
And if she didn't realize that then she's way to naive and irresponsible to be President.
I'm not going to play this game with you. People had reason to take him seriously about Iraq; and people had reason to believe in the integrity of the office; and people had reason to believe in the way government was supposed to work. No other president in history had had such a reason to manufacture a cause for going to war. His words were clear; and yes, we know now that he had every intention to go to war from insider accounts. However, there was every indication coming from the White House that it needn't come to that, even as you profess ignorance. Your BS is very unbecoming.
People had reason to take him seriously about Iraq; and people had reason to believe in the integrity of the office
hillary could not even be bothered to read NIE report before voting for the war. that's how much she cared about the issue.
the one most touting "experience" couldn't be bothered to do the homework.
Oh please, she spoke personally with Powell, Hadley and also former Clinton officials and was briefed personally. That's a lot more than can be said of some other people.
i was fully briefed by my staffers! - was hillary's excuse.
there was no excuse for not reading the report.
powell - who held a vial of pretend anthrax at the UN and caused the tipping point that helped to launch country to war. this is whom you trust?
hadley - condi rice's deputy? oh no, he wouldn't lie, would he? he's the one who got set up up as the sacrificial lamb for sticking the nigerian yellowcake nonsense into bush speech.
accepting a reliance on bush people as an excuse makes you as gullible as hillary.
Yes, Powell. The secretary of state. And yes, Hadley, the deputy National Security Advisor. First you complain about the NIE and now you complain about her seeking out various sources in person for high level briefings. Poor you, you are so blinded by your hatred that you can't even see straight.
now you complain about her seeking out various sources in person for high level briefings.
hillary didn't seek out hans blix, did she? or david albright, from ISIS, who debunked the bush administration's claim that the aluminum tubes iraq had were meant for centrifuges. no, she only sought out enablers for the war.
She sought out the people she knew who had direct experience both coinciding and rebutting the Administration's position. Her decision was very clear: leverage the UN to put inspectors on the ground. It worked. Bush didn't let them finish. Therein lay the problem. As you probably know, Joe Wilson has endorsed Hillary Clinton.
yeah, so?
zbigniew brzezinski endorsed obama. as do the majority of democratic foreign policy experts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/magazi ne/04obama-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
I'm watching a rerun of Bill Clinton on David Letterman right now, explaining what's going on in Iraq, talking about the reasons why we need to end this war for our own sake and for the Iraqis' sake. God, for all his faults, I'd give that man twelve terms in office if I could.
recycling arguments? Back to dynasty issues?
weak
but you have videos, i'll give you a C+ lol
When given the opportunity at the recent Democratic debate to distance herself from NAFTA and its expansion, she called it "A vague memory."
she did not have sex with that trade policy, mr. nafta.
it was clinton who opened the door to our being poisoned by china. they couldn't even leveraged trade with china with something positive, such as make it as a condition of requirement that china relinquished their control of tibet. or anything else similar that would of marked a stand for progressive ideals. clintons sold out cheap.
while they opened the flood doors to china, they blocked drug reimportation from canada, citing bogus safety concerns (to big pharma's delight). so what did we end up with as a result? higher prescription drug costs and dead cats and dogs. progressive dems need to wake up out of their nostalgic reverie that will drag us off onto the wrong track (again!), get off the kool aid, and face the true picture of the clinton record, instead of burying their heads in the sand like ostriches like so many do.
I think it would not be good for the United States to continually have a president drawn from two families.
Are there really only two families that can provide us our president?
Isn't that sort of the way things happen in banana republics with sham democracy?
I think Hillary would be an incredibly better president than Bush but having said that it can't be denied that it sets a very poor precedent to have two families alternating power over potentially 36 years! I mean really!
Likewise it can't be denied that its high time the United States have a female president.
Personally I think the US is stuck in a rut. We have lost our mojo and we need a fresh start. Hillary does not provide that fresh start as her administration- judging by her current advisors/hangers-on- would look a somewhat like Bill Clinton's administration.
Mature democracies do not continually recycle leadership but rather develop new leaders.
I am in Texas write now spending the week with some very good americans. Solid. Military family. Hard working. Honest. The guy is disgusted with Bush whom he -like many- gave the benefit of the doubt to until a few years ago. He can't stand Hillary.
Just saying we ought to try to bring this guy in rather than say "You're either with us or against us and we're offering you the exact same thing you didn't like before."
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