The Rise and Fall of the DLC

From the diaries--Chris

Having frequented both DailyKos and MyDD, I have noticed a recurring dislike of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC).  It has gotten me to think about the history of the DLC, and "New Democrats" in general, and how it relates to the politics of the Democratic Party today.

The DLC was formed in 1985.  This year, in my view, is not an accident.  It followed the massive landslide victory by Ronald Reagan over Walter Mondale.  Granted, Reagan was very popular, but an election where Mondale carried only his home state of Minnesota and the District of Columbia definitely had no silver lining for Democrats.  Change had to be considered.  Clearly, a lot of soul-searching needed to be done, and one of the results was the formation of DLC.  One of the founding members of the DLC, and a future DLC chair, was the then-unknown governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton.  Per "My Life", by Bill Clinton, the DLC was "dedicated to forging a winning message for the Democrats based on fiscal responsibility, creative new ideas on social policy, and a commitment to a strong national defense" (Bill's words, not mine).

While the DLC had grown by 1988, the traditional wing of the Democratic Party was still firmly in charge, as evidenced by the nomination of Michael Dukakis as our nominee to face Vice-President George H.W. Bush.  Traditionally, it had been difficult for a sitting vice-president to directly be elected President following his VP term; however, Bush Sr. bucked the odds, and won a solid victory over Dukakis.  By the end of the campaign, Dukakis had been battered by the Republican Right-Wing Machine and had the label of a wimpy, Massachusetts liberal.  I think we all know the details.

The defeat of Dukakis was for all intents, the defeat of the traditional wing of the Democratic Party.  A very winnable election had turned into another demoralizing defeat.  The DLC, positioned with a new outlook, was now poised to take control.

By 1992, the first Bush administration was in the midst of a recession, and looking very vulnerable.  Still, recent Democratic performances in Presidential elections did not give us a lot of hope.  However, a five-term governor from Arkansas emerged from the Democratic primary as the nominee.  And from the outset, it became very clear that Bill Clinton was not your father's Democrat.  He was a "New Democrat" in every sense of the word.

In November 1992, Clinton earned a solid victory over Bush (don't let the Republicans fool you...exit polls showed that Perot took votes from both sides equally).  For the first time in 16 years, we had won the presidency.

At this point, it would have appeared that the DLC was now the ruling wing of the Democratic Party.  One of its own had become President, something the traditional wing had not had in a long time. And at that point, the DLC was on top.  However, what looked like the beginning of a long reign for the DLC became the beginning of the end.

The question is, why?

Well, victory can do one of two things.  It can embolden you to strive for better things, and further your desire to bring more people into the fold.  Or it can make you arrogant, pompous, and bloated.  Unfortunately for the DLC, the latter happened.

Clinton's victory in 1992 provided the Democrats a golden opportunity to unify and grow.  Unfortunately, the traditional wing was not yet completely sold on Clinton, and the DLC wing made no effort to communicate with them.  This deepened a division that should have been remedied.  Seemingly, the DLC was just happy to be the big man on campus, and disregarded everyone else within the Democratic Party.  This was wrong-headed, because while the traditional wing had lost some influence within the party, they were still crucial.  The evolution of the DLC from 1985-1992 had transformed into a political malaise.  

During Clinton's two terms, it can be argued that he carried the DLC.  He couldn't really rely on them for support and organization; the DLC was living off the capital of having the President on their side.  At Clinton's worst moments, where was the DLC?  When he needed support on crucial issues, where was the DLC?  And when the Republicans attempted a coup with impeachment, where was the DLC?  Maybe someone can answer this question, because all I remember was no response.

By 2000, Clinton was left to represent "New Democrats" by himself.  This caused campaign problems for Al Gore, himself a member of the DLC.  The Monica Lewinsky situation was still fresh in the minds of the public, and Gore felt that he had to distance himself from his boss.  Personally, I think this was a major mistake; Clinton had done a great job as President, and Gore was an integral part of this success.  Why let the Republican coup attempt taint this.  He should have stood up for their great record.  

While Gore ultimately must take responsibility for this decision, it did not help that he did not have a strong DLC to help him make the case for the Clinton-Gore Legacy.  An effective DLC would have been able to help minimize the effects of the scandal, and help put the political focus on the prosperity and policies of the Clinton-Gore years.  Instead, the DLC was non-existent and Gore was left on his own.

As a result, the Gore campaign reflected the traditional wing of the party from a strategy standpoint and this resulted in his downfall.  Had he run on the Clinton-Gore "New Democrat" record and had a strong "New Democrat" backing from groups such as the DLC, the Supreme Court would have not gotten involved, and Al Gore would be President.

Fast forward to 2004.  For the first time in 12 years, we have a wide-open primary race with 10 candidates to challenge George W. Bush (sorry, I like Bill Bradley, but the 2000 race doesn't count).  One of the candidates was Joe Lieberman, our 2000 VP Candidate, and for all intents and purposes, the DLC candidate for 2004 (he was a former chair of the DLC).
Now, I know a lot of folks around here don't like Lieberman, and the reasons have merit (though I must admit, I probably don't feel as some do on this topic), but I liked Joe in 2000, and thought he would run a strong campaign in 2004.  Boy was I wrong!  He ran a Republican-lite campaign, to say the least.  At the various dinners shown on C-SPAN during the pre-primary season, you could hear a pin drop when he spoke.  Needless to say, he generated no excitement.  And his primary performance showed, as he was resoundingly defeated everywhere he went.

This was also, in the end, the proof of the ultimate fall of the DLC.  Once a vibrant force in the party, it had become bland and stale.  The DLC had now resorted to attacking Howard Dean at every turn.  This was truly ironic, for the DLC was attacking a vibrant leader who had many "New Democrat" Ideas that had brought the DLC to prominence.  During the primaries, I felt that Dean and John Edwards had both assumed the "New Democrat" mantle.

Well, here we are in 2005.  George W. Bush is still president, and Howard Dean is DNC Chair.  Where does the DLC go from here?

Well, in my view, the days of DLC being the dominant wing of the party are over.  And in reality, was it really that dominant after 1992?  It probably was the most influential wing by default due to Bill Clinton.  But it never reached the vibrant potential that it could have, and, though many disagree, this is a shame.  The petty attacks against other Democrats since the election have not the helped the DLC's cause.

Still, it would be mistake to write off the DLC.  I have seen a lot of their policy proposals, and I see a lot of good stuff that has been well thought-out.  Policy does matter, and we need a diversity of voices to get good policy in place in the future.  Issues that one may have with the DLC should not be personal; this is just another impediment to getting things done.  The DLC can and should be a vital policy incubator for the policy.  I just don't think that it can be a political force again unless it begins to work better with other elements of the party.

So, what is the dominant wing of the Democratic Party today?  Well, this will have to play itself out.  Howard Dean is definitely a major player, and has energized the grassroots, which I believe is the most important development of the past year.  Harry Reid has performed well as Senate Leader to date.  I don't think that John Kerry will run for President again, but he still has a voice, and will be a factor in some fashion.  Hillary Clinton has the name recognition to be a strong player.  And we certainly haven't heard the last from John Edwards.

Of course, the presence of Bill Clinton is never far away, nor should it be.  He was our only 2-term president since FDR

In the end, as strange as it sounds, I hope that no dominant wing of the Democratic Party emerges.  We are all good at talking, but we also need to start listening to each other.  In a previous diary, I talked the importance of organization to our Party's future.  I hope it is in this area that we make progress over the next four years, not in deciding who will dominate us.  We won't worry about whether the DLC or some other group having the most control; rather, we will work to build a better party that expresses its core values, is organized, and wins elections

Well, I have talked a lot in this diary, so it is now time for me to listen.  I would love to hear your thoughts.

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Comments

76 Comments

Dean
The DLC is effectively dead in Democratic Politics.  Now "the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party" rules supreme with the election of Gov. Dean.  The Clinton centrism only worked for him because of his personality.  It did not work for Gore or Kerry.  
by Max Friedman 2005-04-10 04:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean
With all due respect, a lot of Gov. Dean's positions would be considered "centrist"  His appeal was more tactical than idealogical, though I agree with most of his ideaology.

And I wouldn't consider Kerry "a DLC centrist".  He was farther to the "left", and did not have have the DLC ties that Clinton, Gore, and Lieberman had.

Finally, I would reserve judgment on the dominant wing of the party.  In 1989, the DLC favorite for DNC chair lost to a fellow by the name of Ron Brown, who was favored by the traditional wing.  Last I checked, Bill Clinton, a DLC "New Democrat, won the presidency in 1992.

The DNC chair provides structure and organization, which are Dr. Dean's strengths, and are very necessary in our party.  But with regards to ideas, it is still about the candidate.  People don't elect "wings", they elect candidates.

The dominant wing, if there will be one, will have to be earned over time.  It won't be earned by one big shot, but by a series of little shots.  Saying you're the dominant wing doesn't make it so.  Results are what matter.

by v2aggie2 2005-04-10 09:47AM | 0 recs
Last I checked since 2000
The Democratic Party following the advice of the DLC has lost the majority of it Governors, more seats in the Congress, more seats in the Senate, the Presidency and soon to be the Supreme Court.
by Parker 2005-04-11 02:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Last I checked since 2000
We already lost the Supreme Court. Seven of the nine justices were appointed by Republicans.
by craverguy 2005-04-11 07:01AM | 0 recs
Reagan beat Carter
because the GOP made arrangements with Iranian terrorists to hold the hostages throughout the campaign. Miraculously they were released in time for Reagans inaugrual ball.

I suppose the DLC wants to take credit for that too?

by Parker 2005-04-10 08:16AM | 0 recs
RIP
The biggest problem facing the DLC is that it has become conventional wisdom that they do more harm than good. At the macro-level, their triangulation against Democrats has been disasterous for the Party. But it is also important to realize that at the candidate level they are equally counter-productive (ask Lieberman). In a post-campaign finance reform world, their big checks can't flow and being associated with the DLC is the surest way for a candidate to lose the support of the netroots. Our good ideas are coming from the Center for American Progress and the blogosphere and our campaign support is coming from people, not corporations. We don't need them, they only harm us, they are just dead weight. The sooner they are left behind the sooner we'll be winning again.
by blogswarm 2005-04-10 11:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Angry and Bloated DLC
DLC has outlived it usefulness and is nothing but an angry divisive [group], think tank, arm of party???   What are they???? They accuse anyone they don't azgree with of being "leftist".  The GOP does this all the time.  We don't need them doing this.    They wrongly assume that this "leftist bunch" loves Michael Moore unconditionally  Wrong.  They behave with rancor and spite toward democrats whenever possible.  Whatever power they have had is eroding, and it can't be soon enough.  From and his lot are not helping Democrats to unify and regroup.  It should be bye-bye time for DLC and the good guys within should opt out.
by morris1030 2005-04-13 06:45AM | 0 recs
I sometimes wonder...
how much of the disconnect between the "traditional wing" and the "DLC wing" after the 1992 election can be blamed on either side. Both wings were so intent on defending their positions as the "correct" positions that they weren't willing to work with each other.

This is a lesson for us today as the "grassroots/Dean wing" rises to prominence: we must not allow creeping triumphalism to blind us to the reality that the DLC, as obnoxius as they have been, can be a useful partner in regaining power for the Democrats.

Fortunately, Dean does not strike me as a doctrinaire player. I can easily see him setting aside bad feelings from the 2004 race and joining hands with the DLC where needed (yes, even with Al From).

by Chris Andersen 2005-04-10 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: I sometimes wonder...
This is a great post!

Good ideas can come from anywhere.
At the end of the day, the source doesn't matter.

by v2aggie2 2005-04-10 03:01PM | 0 recs
Too bad...
...Al From is a whining prick.

He will never hand over the keys to his kingdom...he has made too much money off the back of the Democratic Party.

by Parker 2005-04-11 02:47AM | 0 recs
What purpose does Al From serve
If there is a bigger disaster in the Democratic party I don't know who it is. The most antagonism among the grass/netroots is directed at From and Lieberman.

Why does the DLC keep From hangin on? He's an instrumental part of the DLC consultancy appratchik that has been so costly for the party and serves no productive purpose that anyone can point to. At least Lieberman can vote Democratic once in a while. What good is Al From to anybody?

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-11 12:14PM | 0 recs
Re: I sometimes wonder...
I hope Dean never "joins hands" with Al From... he is a viper of the worst kind!  Want to know what happened in '98 when Clinton needed the DLC to balance the VRWC?  I'll tell you what the hell happened... that douchebag From was keeping the fax machines hot in Congressional campaign offices all over America telling candidates to "distance themselves from the President"; that it would do them "no good" to support him.  That's the origin of that damnable weasel word "reprehensible" that all the Democrats kept throwing around!  How do I know this? I was managing a Congressional campaign office and took the vile memo from From off the fax machine!!  I put it on the candidate's desk with a note saying I hoped he would not pay any attention to it, but, sadly, he did... as did most of his collegues.  From had them by the money bags, just as he did Al Gore in 2000.  He kept whispering in everybody's ear how he "got Clinton elected"... hell, Clinton got Clinton elected and anybdy who believes otherwise is seriously deluded.

Many decent people got mixed up with DLC because of the original idea, soon... thanks to From's wet dreams of power... the idea was dead and the double-dealing From had crowned himself "king-macher"... as long as From and his minions are  involved, DLC is deadly to the Democratic Party!

by lezlie 2005-04-11 11:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Centralize Party Power
DLC simply stated, has become a feifdom.  There are many policy groups within the democrats both in and out of congress.  There are mixed messages, and a power struggle always seems to be occuring from DLC with liberal bashing and other unhelpful positions.  Every party is composed of varying factions..left, right, center, etc.  What has to happen for democrats to become relevant with a cohesive message and plan...is to hope that Dean can seek a centalized platform of exiting and positive solutions to Americas problems, and that democrats can solidify and act as ONE TOGETHER to that aim.   DLC is quite negative...and ineffective, yet there are good people there.  We cannot succeed by smug distate and criticism for GOP without offering valid and creative alternatives that we can strongly stand by.   DEMOCRATS.....reorganize!  
by morris1030 2005-04-12 07:07AM | 0 recs
just a quick question
what (generally) should the DLC have been doing for Gore that the DNC wasn't doing?
by jdavidson 2005-04-10 03:39PM | 0 recs
Re: just a quick question
I just didn't see a meaningful public presence from the DLC over the 8 years of Clinton.  Let's face it, the "New Democrat" movement WAS Clinton during this era.  Policy needs to be accompanied by organization.  To advance a movement or a party, you need to be out there.  A lot of folks probably STILL don't know what the DLC is, and it is 20 years old.

Bush II can get away with A LOT because the Republicans (and their factions) has an ongoing, strong organization that will overcome his numerous shortcomings.  He's just an empty suit at the top of the pyramid who is propped up by others.

Clinton and Gore never had that...they were on their own.  Clinton could overcome this.  Gore unfortunately could not.  Backup never hurts, and this is where organization comes in.

by v2aggie2 2005-04-10 03:51PM | 0 recs
Re: just a quick question
the "organization" should come from the DNC. That's the DNC's job.  The DLC is NOT part of the official party infrastructure. The DLC is a non-profit that is prohibited by law from "organizing" political campaigns if it wants to remain a non-profit.
by jdavidson 2005-04-11 06:40AM | 0 recs
Re: just a quick question
It is not a non-profit.  It is a PAC.
by nanorich 2005-04-11 03:50PM | 0 recs
Correction
Organization: The DLC is a nonprofit corporation exempt from tax under Section 501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code. It is not a political committee and is not organized to influence elections

Holy cow!  What possible use is a 501c4 to us?

by nanorich 2005-04-11 03:55PM | 0 recs
504's organize and influence by nature
You are thinking 503's
by aiko 2005-04-12 07:07AM | 0 recs
Re: just a quick question
Al From was not shy about attacking Clinton when he perceived him going off the reservation.

They are absolutely useless.

by nanorich 2005-04-11 03:50PM | 0 recs
the DLC is not falling
As a proud member of the DLC since 1987, I can honestly tell you that the DLC is not dead. You want the DLC dead because it supposedly interferes with the traditional part of the Democrats that makes policy. Unfortuately, the DNC is a party behind the times. Can you honestly tell me why the liberal wing of the party is no longer in fashion with the American people? I can tell you in a simple sentance. It's because liberalism has become a dirty word. People in the south and intermountain west don't believe in it anymore. According to them, the Democrats have been a fiscally reckless party. Bill Clinton is what was right with the Democrats, a moderate fiscally restrained man that picked his fights with Congress and won.
    The Democrats have lost their soul. They are a party that is adrift with nobody, not even Howie Dean, willing to come forward and lead. Also, the Democrats have become the "no" party. Take a look at the polls and both Democrats and Republicans are looking quite bad. The DLC motto is community, opportunity and responsibility, 3 things that liberals could strive for, but rarely succeed at.
    Why are the liberals so concerned with the DLC? Could it be because they are the ones who are losing the power? For so long, liberals ruled the party and no one dare oppose them, then came Kennedy and Clinton and for a while, the party grew scared because it became apparent that the liberals were relegated to second class citizens.
    Let's take a look at the just completed 2004 election. Why did Kerry lose? Simple, it was liberalism run amok. along with a healthy dose of Republican sleaze. Kerry did not win a single southern state and any state west of Illinois, except for the Pacific coast. A lot of people still don't understand why Kerry lost, but if anyone bothered to read between the lines, the answer would jump right out at you.
    No the DLC is not the problem, it's people like the liberal bigwigs that infestate the party and woN'Y change with the times who are the problem. These people won't even consider a more moderate person just because they can't stand the fact that their power base might dry up. The old liberal lions like Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd and others who wake up in the morning and try to figure out how to screw around with your life  have to go.
    The DNC is a bunch of halfwits and brain dead tired old men and women who don't know when their time has passed. As Ross Perot once said, "it's time to clean out the barn". Time to get rid of the old jackasses and replace them with newer models. As long as the old guard hangs onto power, they will never seen the majority in Congress or the presidency. GUARANTEED!!!!!!
by liebermanlives 2005-04-10 05:00PM | 0 recs
Re: the DLC is not falling
because liberalism has become a dirty word.

Well, y'all certainly are doing your level best to keep it that way.  You don't like liberals, there's a Party that agrees with you.  If you're willing to work with liberals on common goals, there's a Party with a lot of room for you.  

by Kimmitt 2005-04-10 06:27PM | 0 recs
Monday Morninng Quarterbacking
My consistent advice to the DLC has been:

Yo! Dude! You're running the wrong direction! Our goal post is thataway!

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-10 06:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Monday Morninng Quarterbacking
If you ever do setup your own blog you should incorporate that into the title! Brilliant!
by Alex Urevick 2005-04-11 11:58AM | 0 recs
Re: the DLC is not falling
That is exactly the problem Liebermanlives. I added a condition to my Buddah Dollars Challenge that offered to go double down if Joe criticized Bush or any Republican this weekend.

I think the most gracious interpretation of Joe's recent conduct is that he stepped on his anatomy when he got a big slobbery kiss from Bush. When was the last time Joe criticized a Republican?

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-10 07:29PM | 0 recs
Democratic Lost Cause
Can you honestly tell me why the liberal wing of the party is no longer in fashion with the American people?

Because of a 300 million dollar GOP megaphone that the DLC coerced the Democratic party to acquiesce... in vain hopes of winning elections...which have turned out to be the opposite.

a moderate fiscally restrained man that picked his fights with Congress and won.

What the hell did Clinton win??? Proposals that the GOP had been fighting for decades... Welfare reform. This strategery of Bending over to win elections
has run its course. For anyone to take up the baton that Clinton carried that would mean a Dem would have to dump pro-choice and promote pre-emptive strikes...oh wait that is what we are already doing.

the Democrats have become the "no" party

I see you have been reading your GOP talking points very loyally... what crap. It called a fucking Opposition Party.

The DLC motto is community, opportunity and responsibility...

No it is corporate first, consultants second and fuck the base.

Why did Kerry lose?

Because he listened to the DLC morans instead of the fucking people who actually had to vote for him.

by Parker 2005-04-11 02:42AM | 0 recs
We also lose because we're tactical not strategic
One reason we struggle is because we focus so much on the Candidate who then reinvents the party every campaign.  The party traditionally hasn't had have money in between elections for continuity of policy making or infrastrucure.  As Bill Bradley pointed out in the New York Times two weeks ago (3/30):

"Democrats who run for president have to build their own pyramids all by themselves. There is no coherent, larger structure that they can rely on. Unlike Republicans, they don't simply have to assemble a campaign apparatus - they have to formulate ideas and a vision, too. Many Democratic fundraisers join a campaign only after assessing how well it has done in assembling its pyramid of political, media and idea people.

"There is no clearly identifiable funding base for Democratic policy organizations, and in the frantic campaign rush there is no time for patient, long-term development of new ideas or of new ways to sell old ideas. Campaigns don't start thinking about a Democratic brand until halfway through the election year, by which time winning the daily news cycle takes precedence over building a consistent message. The closest that Democrats get to a brand is a catchy slogan."

I've personal experience of the lack of good planning and infrastructure from the trenches of the recent national election, at least in my city, and I'm told this was true across the country.  It felt like we were trying to build better wings on our jet in mid-flight: a hell of a struggle and the result wasn't very good.

We need time between elections to build strong institutions and craft message frameworks and nurture candidates for lower offices.

So enough with tactical thinking, infighting for position with emerging candidates, inside the Beltway consultants.  We need a party that is out in the 50 states the whole time.

by dwightmc 2005-04-11 08:35PM | 0 recs
Re: the DLC is not falling...it has fallen.
as well it should.  I think 11 years is enough to reward failure.  Complete and utter failure.

Total failure. No growth of party...failure.

Republican Lite.  Failure.

Almost on purpose...failure.

And at this point, all that is left of the DLC are a couple of Rockefeller Republicans and a whiny old tyrant, Al From.

by nanorich 2005-04-11 01:34PM | 0 recs
Liberals not in fashion?
Maybe because they've been led too often by cowards who are afraid to stand up for real values in lieu of ceding rhetorical ground for a living.
by Frontier PAC 2005-04-11 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Liberals not in fashion?
I should be clear: the DLC wing are the ones who give up rhetorical ground.  Democrats can't win when their primary spokespeople are fundamentally ashamed to be Democrats.
by Frontier PAC 2005-04-11 03:18PM | 0 recs
Re: the DLC is not falling
Yeah, that's right, just keep bad mouthing your fellow Democrats. Everyone of you DLCs like Republicans better, don't you? Sure you do. Come on, admit it.
by William Domingo 2005-04-11 04:46PM | 0 recs
The DLC is the old guard
Out with the old and in with the new. Personally, I think Byrd should step aside and make room for some new blood. Same with Kennedy. Heck Biden, Dodd, Lieberman and Feinstein too. Let's clean the whole stable and get rid of the stale worn out horses.
by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-11 04:53PM | 0 recs
Re: The DLC is the old guard
Unfortunately, if Byrd steps aside, its Senator Capito thank you very much.
by fng 2005-04-12 07:45AM | 0 recs
Kennedy?
Why would you want to get rid of Kennedy? Old yes, but he espouses the liberal position better than just about any other Senator. From his safe perch in blue Massachusetts he's able to regularly smack down the GOP. For my money, he's been the best Senator on the Dem side at spelling out why Dems are right and Reps are wrong on several issues, including torture and the bankruptcy bill.

I don't see what could possibly be gained by replacing him at this point. Yes, there may come a point at which it might make sense to replace a Democratic Senator as effective as Kennedy, but the time sure isn't now. His voice and leadership is needed and would be missed if it was gone.

by Curt Matlock 2005-04-12 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: the DLC is not falling
It has already fallen.  We don't even know what they do or stand for.  Granted, whole Party needs overhaul and centralization, but DLC just struggles and swipes.  Talk about negative....just listen to Al From. Ugh!! While DNC needs positive and real message.....so does DLC.  They behave like imperial Kingmeisters, but like most of KStreet wonders, they are lost in hackdom.   We ALL need to get together and find one uplifting and important theme of relevance for the American people. We have a lot of catching up to do.
by morris1030 2005-04-12 07:19AM | 0 recs
Allow me to add my two cents
I just pulled up a comment that I made on one of Thesholder's diaries. Absent the links here is my take on the organizational structure of the Democratic party:

The first issue concerns what the role of the DNC is relative to the DLC. One of the reasons I left dkos for MyDD is that I realized there were a whole lot more folks who pretended they knew what they were talking about than really knew what they were talking about. Too much static. Since I wasn't informed enough to know the difference, I settled here, where I was confident that there were at least two people who knew what they were talking about. Chris and Jerome were also focused on the nuts and bolts of politics, which is where I'm convinced the solution lies.

The structure of the Democratic party is pretty clear

Things get confusing when you add in the structure of fifty State Democratic party organizations, but it still makes some kind of sense.

Then you add on the Senate Democratic Caucus and the House Democratic Caucus.

So far so good.

Then add on various political factions like the Congressional Black Caucus and the Blue Dog Democrats and Yellow Dog Democrats

The real confusion, and source of much misunderstanding comes from the DLC and NDOL which seem to be strange hybrid factions grafted onto the shell of the rest of the party organization, with tentacles into all of the other organizational structures.

If somebody can clear that up for me, or point to mistaken assumptions, I would appreciate it.

In the meantime, we now have Move On, ACT and DFA and a new one Democrats for America's Future, which looks like a DLC stooge to me.

An every present wild card is the Green Party

Clear as mud right? That just might explain why people are confused about what the Democratic party stands for.

Any clarifications?

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-10 06:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
Last I checked, the Republicans also have a lot of "subgroups, albeit conservative.  The Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute come to mind.

It is one thing to have factions.
At some point, the factions have to come together, and we have to communicate with everybody.  And this requires at least a little bit of sacrifice on the part of everybody.

Just because an organization is complicated doesn't mean that it can't work.  It just requires real coordination and communication.

by v2aggie2 2005-04-10 08:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
The question is what role the DLC plays in the Democratic party. How do they fit in and interact with the formal Democratic organizational structure?

The defeat of Dukakis was for all intents, the defeat of the traditional wing of the Democratic Party.  A very winnable election had turned into another demoralizing defeat.  The DLC, positioned with a new outlook, was now poised to take control.

I question how "winnable" this election was for Mondale. I've linked before to Party Down!, a Washington Monthly article that details the problems of the Democratic party in the 70's.

Did Mondale lose to Reagan because of the policies of the "traditional wing" of the Democratic party, or was it Reagan's personal charisma and the Democratic party's pollitical arrogance and failure to connect with voters?

I continue to believe the DLC took the party down the wrong path and is suffering from the same type of misguided delusions and corruption that plagued the party in the 70's.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-10 09:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
Your first question is a valid one, and perhaps its clarification and definition is crucial to the organization of the Democratic Party.

However, it looks like you are responding to my quote regarding DUKAKIS with comments about the MONDALE election

by v2aggie2 2005-04-10 09:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
That was my mistake. However, it trigger my memory of a comment by Paul Rosenberg that Mondale ran a DLC campaign:

It needs to be pointed out that Mondale--though a traditional, labor-backed liberal--ran a DLC-style campaign. This is very well described in "Right Turn: the Decline of the Democrats and the Future of American Politics" by Joel Rogers and Thomas Ferguson.

This was the beginning of the same syndrome we saw in this last election, where the people on the ground went and worked their hearts out for a progressive agenda, while the consultants crafted a "safe" centrist message that utterly failed to resonate with the candidates strengths, the party's heritage, or the unmet needs and desires of the electorate.

Then, after the fact, history was rewritten to say the election was lost on values because the candidate was "too liberal." If you believe that about the 2004 campaign, then by all means, pay no attention to me, and continue to beleive it about Mondale in 1984. But if that description of why Kerry lost rings false with you, then you ought to check out Right Turn. It's a very telling examination of the politics that gave rise to the DLC.

This perspective is discussed in Right Turn: The Decline of the Democratic Party.

by GaryBoatwright 2005-04-11 07:24AM | 0 recs
Oops! I got the Mondale/Dukakis races crossed up
The point is the same. Dukakis was a flawed candidate, in many of the same ways Kerry was a flawed candidate. When the party chose Clinton, a natural politician with personal charisma, the result was a landslide.

I think the DLC is continuing to push the delusion that these races were about policy, to the exclusion of all kinds of other factors. Maybe the lesson is that we should just pick the most personable candidate and forget about stupid things like issues. For reasons I can not explain, issues don't seem to drive voters' decision.

Let's just ask Ruy Teixeira who the most popular Democrat in the country is, cancel the primaries and nominate that person. For whatever reason, Democratic primaries habitually select the weakest nominee.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-10 09:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Oops!
I would agree that policy was not the only issue.

And the messenger, as you say, does matter.
Perhaps if the DLC had better messengers in addition to Clinton, they would not be in the predicament that they are in.  It is certainly hurting them now.  Now, they're just making people mad, whether they want to or not.

I think personability matters a lot now in the TV age.  By the time the Texas Primary had come around (and the nomination was sown up at that point anyway), I voted for Kerry over Edwards (barely) simply due to experience in the Senate.  But I don't think most people think like that anymore in general elections (Bush II was a bad baseball owner just 11 years ago, while Kerry had been in the Senate 20 years).

I believe that a guy with almost no experience has the advantage over the experienced guy in terms of winning.  Heck, if he shows up out of the blue, he may be in the best of shape.  Kind of non-intuitive, but hey, I guess I'm behind the times.

by v2aggie2 2005-04-10 09:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
Just to be sure that its understood that the DLC is NOT and NEVER has been part of the Democratic Party infrastructure.  

The DLC is a nonprofit corporation exempt from tax under Section 501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code. It is not a political committee and is not organized to influence elections.

by jdavidson 2005-04-11 06:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
So what the hell do we need them for?

I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that the DLC is a cancer on the Democratic body politic. If the DLC would disband and the members worked through traditional party structure channels, we could solve a lot of problems.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-11 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
Your question is hard to answer because you don't actually "have them."  They are an independent organization, they are not part of the DNC.  They do not fund candidates. They do not do any of the things the DNC does.  
by jdavidson 2005-04-11 01:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
Basically, they don't do anything productive. They are a corporate campaign raising body, outside of the normal channels, that kow tows to corporate interests and makes the rest of the party look bad so they can maintain their power base.

So what is it that we need the DLC for? What useful purpose do they serve?

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-11 03:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
so how do you get rid of them?
by jdavidson 2005-04-12 05:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
Re-organize and disband the DLC. The functions of the Democratic party should be carried out by the official organs of the Democratic party. During the competition for DNC Chair, there was a lot of talk about the lack of transparency and confusing by-laws of the DNC.

Does the DLC have any official structure or heirarchy? Are they accountable to anyone? How are they influenced?

Most importantly, how do they influence the decisions on how campaign contributions are funneled out to different structures and individuals in the party? Is there a regular procedure? Who decides? Does the DLC have any formal decision making apparatus? Do they have regular meetings?

The DLC has an awful lot of power for a group with so little transparency and so little accountability.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-12 09:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
how do you "re-organize and disband the DLC"?
by jdavidson 2005-04-12 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Allow me to add my two cents
"Most importantly, how do they influence the decisions on how campaign contributions are funneled out to different structures and individuals in the party?"

I'm pretty sure they don't. They'd be direclty breaking the law if they did.  

by jdavidson 2005-04-12 10:52AM | 0 recs
Let's give BlogPac some love
I am also pulling down a comment by Bob Brigham:

Let me be sure to give credit where credit is due. A vast majority of Democratic senators have used the line "there is no crisis" in print. For many, it hasn't happened in a while, but they did do it.

The larger issue is that we need to get elected officials to unlearn everything the DLC taught them -- that is a long process, but our only hope.

BlogPAC was able to fight against the fake crisis because we had enough money in the bank to make things happen early.

We need to also be looking beyond Social Security to the next battle, contributing to BlogPAC ensures that we can continue to lead the way.

Thanks for your contribution, I am 100% confident in saying that a contribution to BlogPAC goes further than a donation to any other organization.

No crisis, no compromise, no mercy.

Curt and I have been having fund with my Buddah Dollars Challenge to the DLC. It started off as a challenge to keep track of Democratic criticism of Bush and DeLay and I tried to morph it to include Democratic criticism of Republcans on other issues.

I'm making an executive decision and donating $100 to BlogPac. For the time being, BlogPac is getting all of my Buddah Dollars. The DLC and DNC are both going to have to find contributors to their ATM machine elsewhere.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-10 06:37PM | 0 recs
LET'S NOT EXAGGERATE or Get Carried away now!
 V2aggie,

First of all I am not a DLC. But I have to call your attention on your comment.

Let's not get carried away now! You say that you  based your conclusion that the DLC is Dead by and I quote you, " Having frequented both DailyKos and MyDD, I have noticed a recurring dislike of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC)."

V2aggie, that's like going into a NEW YORK YANKEES website and saying that you've NOTICED members showing a recurring dislike of the BOSTON RED SOX".
Do you understand?

DailyKos & MyDD are one of the Top 5 Progressive/Liberal websites in the nation. This is Howard Dean Country. The overwhelming majority of the people in this site are the SAME people who were the VETERANS of the Dean Core supporters & leaders in 2004.

If you visit the sites of the "CentristModerate Democrat bloggers", you will see a slightly different picture. They also Hate Republicans just like people here but they do not agree with some of the positions of the Liberal/Progressive wing of the party.

But to make your conclusion based on the postings you read from bloggers here and DailyKos is like " only seeing half the pulse of the Democratic Party."

Yes, I agree with you 100% that Progressives are doing an EXCELLENT job of taking back the grassroots of our party. They excitement is awesome.

However as a unbiased observer, REMEMBER this. Numbers don't lie!

As we speak, 60% of ALL CURRENT ELECTED DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS are DLC. 40% of ELECTED DEMOCRATIC SENATORS are officially DLC. While in the House, about 35% of ELECTED DEMOCRATIC ELECTED HOUSE MEMBERS who are considered Moderate/Conservative are aligned with between "DLC coalition" & the " Blue Dog Coalition"

Now you don't even have to look far. Take a look at last year's 2004 results in our primary.

The Top 3 Finishers in last year's Democratic Presidential Primary were ALL " Moderate/Centrist" Democrats in Kerry (DLC), Edwards, and Clark.

This was despite of a tremendous united grassroots effort of Liberals/Progressives rallying behind Howard Dean.

The Only successful Democrat to Win the Presidency in the last 20 years is a DLC founding Democrat Bill Clinton. The only other Democrat to win in the last 30 years is a Conservative Democratic in Jimmy Carter.

Now if you want to look at the "supposed" list of Possible Democratic Candidates for the Nominations for 2008. Yes it is early. But again, by just looking at the list. Majority of them are aligned with the DLC with some "dark horse" contenders. From the current " Favorite" ( based on ALL current polling) Sen. Hillary Rodham-Clinton (DLC), then, we have Sen. Evan Bayh(DLC), Gov. Bill Richardson of NM, (DLC), Gov. Mark Warner (DLC),Gov. Ed Rendell of PA(DLC), and of course, Sen. John Kerry (DLC), Gov. Tom Vilsack of IA (DLC).

In other words, the chance of another DLC being a nominee for 2008 is very possible.

With all that said, let's not get carried away now. Yes, the DLC may be losing the their influence and power among the grassroots/activists & will probably be telling for the future of the Dem Party, but no way is the DLC or the moderate/centrist dead today.

   

by labanman 2005-04-11 12:30AM | 0 recs
Re: LET'S NOT EXAGGERATE or Get Carried away now!
OK...where to begin.

Regarding your criticism of my comment:

" Having frequented both DailyKos and MyDD, I have noticed a recurring dislike of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC)."

I have gone to a lot of Democratic Blogs (liberal, centrist, etc).  My comment above was based just on DailyKos and MyDD ONLY, and that's what I stated.  Yeah, I guess it is obvious...what's your point?  I made an observation.  Why be so condescending about it?  

Next, you say that I said that the DLC is dead.  Where did I say this?  I never said that, and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.  I also never said that "moderates/centrists" were dead.  I stated in my diary the following:

"Still, it would be mistake to write off the DLC.  I have seen a lot of their policy proposals, and I see a lot of good stuff that has been well thought-out.  Policy does matter, and we need a diversity of voices to get good policy in place in the future.  Issues that one may have with the DLC should not be personal; this is just another impediment to getting things done.  The DLC can and should be a vital policy incubator for the policy."

Does this sound like I'm saying that the DLC is dead?

If you got this assumption from my post, well, that was not my intention.  I believe that moderate/centrists are a vital part of the party, and will continue to be.

Next, I did not make my conclusions based on the postings you read from bloggers here and DailyKos, or any other blogospheres.  I came up with this viewpoint on my own, for better or worse; I'm a Democrat that does not fall neatly into a faction(s)...basically, I'm just a Democrat.  Feel free to agree or disagree, but attribute my viewpoint to me completely either way, not to the other bloggers.

I have no problem with your numbers, and I think you make some good points with them.

I would point out, however, that "New Democrat" and the DLC, are not necessarily synonomous.  You can be a "New Democrat" without being a member of the DLC.  Also, membership in the DLC is relative...it is important to know how crucial that membership is for a given politician, and how active they are with the DLC.  Sometimes, it's more of a "resume" builder or placeholder than anything else.  Being a member does not always mean much.

As to your last sentence:

"With all that said, let's not get carried away now. Yes, the DLC may be losing the their influence and power among the grassroots/activists & will probably be telling for the future of the Dem Party, but no way is the DLC or the moderate/centrist dead today."

I think that this statement from my diary is somewhat similar:

"So, what is the dominant wing of the Democratic Party today?  Well, this will have to play itself out.  Howard Dean is definitely a major player, and has energized the grassroots, which I believe is the most important development of the past year.  Harry Reid has performed well as Senate Leader to date.  I don't think that John Kerry will run for President again, but he still has a voice, and will be a factor in some fashion.  Hillary Clinton has the name recognition to be a strong player.  And we certainly haven't heard the last from John Edwards."

by v2aggie2 2005-04-11 08:22PM | 0 recs
if you took offense from his comment
You shouldn't be posting diaries.....
by aiko 2005-04-12 06:58AM | 0 recs
Re: if you took offense from his comment
I just thought that the remark was condescending, nothing more.  

Look, I have no problem with disagreements over my diaries.  I welcome it, and I learn a lot from the varied comments on all sides that I have seen.  To me, the learning is the best part of it.  I just didn't see the point in talking down to someone.  Certainly, that tone won't help us get new Democrats.  And it is their "offense" that you should worry about, not mine.

Finally, I won't tell you not to write diaries, so please don't tell me not to write diaries.

by v2aggie2 2005-04-12 08:01PM | 0 recs
the DNC is the problem
Mr. Boatwright, it is very obvious by your comments that you don't understand what the DLC is all about. What the DLC does is push candidates that could win in every state, not only in 25 states like the DNC does. Kerry was not a DLC candidate, if he was, he would have won. Gore supposedly was a DLC candidate but he ran on a platform of populism and not the DLC platform. Gore and Kerry lost because the American people were not with them. The sooner you liberals realize this, the sooner we can regain the White House.
by liebermanlives 2005-04-11 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: the DNC is the problem
Whatever they were originally supposed to do does not seem to be working out very well. If Kerry was not a DLC candidate, what kind of candidate was he?

I have never heard anyone suggest that Kerry was anything except a creature of the DLC. Al From and Bob Shrum were not part of both the DLC and the Kerry campaign?

Who was the DLC backed nominee in 2003 if not Kerry?

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-11 12:20PM | 0 recs
Re: the DNC is the problem
Lieberman, of course. But when he tanked in the polls, they switched their support to Kerry.

Oddly enough, Dean and Edwards, one of whom was praised by the DLC and one of whom was an actual former member, ran against the DLC in the primaries. Their previous aid to the DLC was, of course, forgotten, and they went down in a hail of negative advertising.

by craverguy 2005-04-11 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: the DNC is the problem
I didn't pay any attention to Lieberman. He sank out of sight too quickly. Wasn't Gephardt another DLC candidate? I thought it was an open secret that Gephardt did the attack dog routine on Dean to clear the road for Kerry.
by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-11 01:21PM | 0 recs
Re: the DNC is the problem
I'm not especially a DLC basher and think they have some good ideas. (I have problems with their recent tactics, however, and think that Al From is becoming a desperate man).

However, I think your interpretation of the Gore campaign is incorrect. Gore was well behind Bush until he turned to a populist pitch at the Democratic Convention. The thing is, what wins - as Paul Goodman notes below - is a kind of non-ideological populism that is right wing on some issues, left wing on others. The DLC adopts a kind of beltway, TNR center-rightisim that is not the winning the formula.

IMO, a winning formula for Kerry in the last election would have been:

  1. soak the rich
  2. protect social security
  3. no gay marriage
  4. kick Arab ass
  5. bring the boys home from Iraq as soon as possible
  6. bash corporations
  7. and salute the flag a lot

This is not a DLC litany, with a possible exception of some of the window dressing on God and country. But people in this country don't like privelege (in whatever form it comes), want a tough foreign policy but not an adventurous one - important difference here - its why people don't really support the Iraq War all that strongly today even after a relatively successful process has been launched even though majorities backed the war to remove Saddam Hussein.

Ben P

by Ben P 2005-04-11 03:44PM | 0 recs
That election may have been stolen too according
to VoteScam.com and their investigative reporting on E-Voting.  So the DLC may have been formed on false pretenses (ie. that the Dems had lost and therefore needed to accommodate the Conservatives more.)  Check out their book -- the've got a number of chapters on-line!
by JamBoi 2005-04-11 11:32AM | 0 recs
DLC: Fish or Fowl?
It seems that the DLC isn't quite sure what it is up to.  Is it a think-tank - a source of good ideas?  Is it a replacement for the DNC?  Is it a refuge for Dems who wish to label themselves "not liberal"?  Is it the party office responsible for purging leftist or liberal instincts from influence in the Democratic party?

I find it helpful to distinguish the DLC 'leadership' from 'some' of the ideas of the DLC.  Some of these ideas make some sense, but the leadership pursues these ideas in ways that make the DLC a support group for the Republicans instead of an progressive influence on the Democratic party.  The DLC leadership seems to excel at using GOP talking points to weaken and bring down Democratic candidates at the same time it supplies talking points to the Republicans to discredit the Democratic candidates and party.

Throughout the history recounted above it is hard to see a point at which the DLC really made a positive contribution to electing a Democratic candidate.  Clinton was Clinton - the DLC didn't make him an electoral force.  He got his middling ways from the defeat and rethinking he suffered on reelection for his second term of governor for being too liberal for Arkansas.  Recently the DLC is all about splitting the Democratic party.

As for the DLC leadership: Al From should not be hired by Democrats in the future, and if the DLC wants continued influence in the party he should be shown the door.  Joe Lieberman needs to be defeated for reelection.  The party needs to send a message that vocal disagreement on policy and candidates is fine but attacking the party and candidates will not be tolerated.

by JimPortlandOR 2005-04-11 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: DLC: Fish or Fowl?
Foul fish I'd say, and it's rotting from the head. The DLC serves no useful purpose. It has no useful function.
by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-11 03:34PM | 0 recs
Re: DLC: Fish or Fowl?
Show From out and insist that DLC declare itself in every way.  Who,what,where,when, and................WHY.  Lieberman is not the central issue here, but I could be wrong.  But DLC acts like a curmudgeon ridden think tank and creates nothing constructive.  Declare yourselves, or join the Democratic Party.!
by morris1030 2005-04-12 07:13AM | 0 recs
DLC-ism Paved The Way For the DLC
This narrative is seriously deficient for one simple reason: it paints Mondale and Dukakis as emblematic of the "traditional wing" of the Democratic Party, when, in fact, their campaigns were deeply reflective of the DLC mentality.

I don't have much time so I'll make it quick: (1) Mondale ran on raising taxes in order to balance the budget. This was not what he built his career on, but it is how he ran. (Clinton in '92 ran on cutting taxes, then turned around and raised them. The Democratic Congress, which backed him and passed the increases, was defeated, handing the GOP controll of the House for 12 years now, and counting...)

(2) Dukakis ran on "competence, not ideology." In Ohio, Howard Metzenbaum ran as a full-out progressive, and won handily while Dukakis was beaten badly. There was a 25% gap between Metzenbaums margin of victory and Dukakis's margin of defeat.

In short, both "traiditonal" Democrartic candidates ran DLC-style, Beltway CW campaign, which failed to inspire either grassroots activists or traditional Democratic voters.

In contrast, Bill Clinton ran far more populist campaigns--especially the first time out, in 1992.  He did not rule as a populist, but campaigned as one--and not just during the campaign season, but in his "permanent campaign" as well.

Moral: Populism is what people want and expect from the Dems (the exact opposite of the corporate-owned DLC). If you can't actually be one, then fake it. You will lose both houses of Congress, and get yourself impeached, to boot. But people will remember you fondly, because your enemies were so much more vile than you.

by Paul Rosenberg 2005-04-11 02:22PM | 0 recs
Populism
The problem with populism is that many populist positions are anethema to the donors of the party. Gay rights jumps to mind. One might also talk about militarism and "kick-butt" unilateralism as major populist themes. How about closing the border? Is that popular amongst the congoscenti? A general (and irrational) dislike for welfare is also populist (I say irrational because the average man is the primary target of welfare, not the poor). What about gun control? Is that populist?

Economic populism is what the Democrats like Kerry et al DID campaign on. John Edwards was brilliant in his "Two Americas" routine. Unfortunately, that economic populism had to compete with cultural populism, especially Gay Marriage. Guess what won?

by Paul Goodman 2005-04-11 03:01PM | 0 recs
True, but
If we ar aggressive in contorlling the debate, we can choose a small template of populist issues and keep them central.  It helps if an issue has broad ramifications.  Look at wedge issues (which are sort of reverse populism), it's not like people who vote on guns don't care about other stuff, it's just that they have been convinced sufficiently that guns are a "voter."  

And I still contend that the problem with the gay marriage "battle" in 2004 was that the Dems didn't show up.  It's pretty tremendous that polls show a majority of Americans favoring at least civil unions, even though essentially zero prominent Democrats (including Barney Frank) made the case for gay marriage.  When you lead with compromise, your only compromise is defeat.

by Frontier PAC 2005-04-11 03:27PM | 0 recs
Unpopular populism
That's a better description of Kerry's campaign. Since Edwards was not at the top of the ticket, not much attention was paid to his Two America's theme.

Kerry ran exactly the campaign that Frank complained about in What's The Matter With Kansas. Kerry never did give anyone a populist kitchen table economic platform to attract any attention.

Kerry didn't have much of a platform period. It was typical DLC blahh. There's a discredited theory that moral issues won, but it doesn't hold water. The election was Kerry's to win and he blew it.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-11 03:50PM | 0 recs
Gay Populism
Rightwing populism is a populism of fear, based on demonizing outgroups as enemies of "the people". Progressive populism is populism of hope, about fighting for all the "little guys" however much they differ from each other in their particulars.

Obviously, the easiest way for rightwing populism to grow is for progressive populism to retreat--or to be squashed by the Powers That Be within the party.

The rightwing capitalization on gay marriage is symptomatic of a much broader and deeper decay of our political system. It will not be easy to reverse. But it is not in the least indicative of what populism per se is about.  Replacing fear with hope is easier said than done, but it is the key to creating the kind of populism that is the natural foundation of the Democratic Party--and that, unlike it's reactionary counterpart, actually delivers what it promises.

Thinking that gays are anti-populist is simply a symptom of having drunk the rightwing populist koolaid.  One of the most potent pro-gay forces in America today is the unions, which have fought militantly for partnership benefits for their gay members. Going the other direction, in California, two of the leading populist voices in the state legislators are LA-area lesbians--Sheila Kuehl and Jackie Goldberg.

by Paul Rosenberg 2005-04-11 05:20PM | 0 recs
I have no problem with DLC other than
when their boy was in power TWICE last decade, name ONE singular thing they did to expand and strengthen the democratic party?

Survey says:

NADA!

That's my only mainproblem with Clinton and the DLC.  His whole attitude was, and still is, "Well, I beat the republicans, and just do what I did!"
He did nothing to empower and solidify his party when he was on top.

When we next elect a democrat president, we will have to DEMAND that she, uh, maybe HE, uses the bully pulpit and national president spotlight to support the party nationwide.

No one flys solo on the progressive side, ESPECIALLY not nowadays...

by Sam Loomis 2005-04-11 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: I have no problem with DLC other than
One of the problems that Clinton had was that nobody on a large scale really knew who he was prior to 1992.  Basically, he became the leader of the party AND the nation within a 6-month span.  No matter what talents Bill has, this is a steep hill to climb so quickly.

By contrast, Ronald Reagan had been a prominent national political figure for 16 years prior to winning the presidency in 1980.  He had already reached iconic status in the Republican Party, and this made it easier to push the party.  Plus, the conservative Republican organization as we know it today had begun in earnest around 1970, and while not as strong as today, was still an asset.

Truth be told, it is easy to forget that to pass his first budget in 1993, he needed to coax Bob Kerrey, a Democrat to make it 50-50, and then have Al Gore cast the tie-breaking vote.  And this was with a Democratic majority in both houses.  There were definitely Democrats who had voted against this budget.  It's hard to empower you own party, when you have convince it to fully support you.

I don't think Democrats themselves had completely realized what they had in Clinton until roughly 1999-2000, when they saw the postive results of his Administration, and the depths that Republicans would go to in order to stop him, and the 2 full terms that he was completing.

This is where the DLC could have really helped him during his 8 years.  Clinton needed the support to bolster the party, and he didn't really get it.

I can see your point about Clinton needing to do more to empower the party, and I believe that this is true.  But I believe that this is even more true with regards to the overall organzation.  And the DLC had the opportunity to take the lead and did not come through.

by v2aggie2 2005-04-11 09:17PM | 0 recs
Dean's a moderate, the DLC should love him...
The DLC has been pretty insular from at least the time of Clinton's '92 victory and probably before. They did nothing to support Clinton in his low moments and basically ran away from him anytime he diverged a bit from their dogma. Except for Marty Peretz (more of a DLC fan than insider), they seemed to abandon Gore. Their ties to industry and Wall Street have always been a contradiction to the Party's true base and those ties are of no help in the K Street era. The Deaniacs and the Kerry campaign proved you can run campaigns on oridnary people's money. You don't need big PhRMA, etc.

Given that Dean's record is largely that of a pragmatic, low tax moderate, they should love him. But he's clearly absorbed some of that New England independence and they clearly want somone who cares enough to join their junior high school fraternity.

by rich 2005-04-11 03:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Dean's a moderate, the DLC should love him...
Big Pharma and MBNA contributions are the drug the DLC cannot kick. They are hooked and cannot say no to corporate fat cats.
by Gary Boatwright 2005-04-11 03:51PM | 0 recs
What Simon Rosenberg had to say last November.
If there's a battle for the soul of the Democratic Party, predicts Simon Rosenberg, president of the New Democrat Network, a moderate advocacy group, it won't be the usual skirmish between the liberals and moderates of the professional class in Washington but one between Washington insiders on one side and the rank-and-file activists spread out across the country on the other."What's changed over the past two years is that activist Democrats believe that Republicans are venal people", says Rosenberg. These activists "are going to be very intolerant of Democrats in Washington who cooperate with the Republicans. There's going to be tremendous pressure to stand up and fight and not roll over and play dead".
by William Domingo 2005-04-11 04:56PM | 0 recs
DLC + others to be blamed
The DLC shouldn't be blamed all by its lonesome.

The culture of mercenary poltiicos jumping from campaign to campaign should be blamed.

In this regard, the GOPers have a better model.  Keep a small, tight team around your big time candidates.  Nurse them from their first office until their presidency.

The model of Rove and Hughes babysitting Bush through his entire political career is a good one.

What has hurt the Dems more than anything is this band of mercenaries who have been through 5-10 presidential elections, a million candidates, have been decades since they saw anything local, and think they know everything.  And then they shakedown one campaign after another, and they usually lose.

The Bushies and the Atwater-Rove school are built to win. They are a tight, New England Patriots type team.  They may not have the best, but they have the people that they KNOW they want.  They have their kind of killers.

It makes all the difference.

Think about it.

Kerry went through several times more campaign staff in ten months than Bush has gone through since running for governor of Texas.

Continuity matters.

by jcjcjc 2005-04-11 05:59PM | 0 recs
by hpvv 2005-12-19 10:09PM | 0 recs

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