Dean is Right: Kill the Bill

My political hero was is and always will be Otto Von Bismarck. Widely thought to be conservative, and unequalled as a statesman - Bismarck's  is one of a lasting legacy of innovation in statesmanship. His favorite saying was -

A statesman listens for the footsteps of God, and then grabs the hem and swings himself up as he passes by

During the years leading up to World War II - the intelligentsia of  a very nice country  ended up endorsing the rule of Hitler.

What if. At the right time, they just said. Sorry. This is not going to fly. This is not kosher.

We need to find that strength. NOW. Dean is right.

Kill the bill. Kill it because we need to flex our strength as progressives. Kill it because we are powering the election cycle. Kill it because it is a half-measure, a throw-in to lobbyists.  Let the United States Government act as Otto Von Bismarck - let us be known for real change, real reform - and in the next election cycle, throw the bastards OUT and lock this entire thing down.

The GOP is on the run. Give them this half-measure and they'll walk all over you. The Dems are on the rise. And the progressive and independent (true independent, and not just guys on the take from Insurance companies) - are going to power 2010.

And then we'll have the votes.

Tags: healthcare reform, option, progressive, realpolitik (all tags)



Shitty as this bill is

I don't think it quite rises to the level of Hitler.

by JJE 2009-12-15 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Shitty as this bill is

Hitler appeared to fix things while he implemented a much different agenda - mostly removing the ability of people like you and me to really have a say in government. He set up a kind of tyranny - quietly - by dog and pony show. Blaming the burning of the Reichstag building on the left, bit by bit removing certain powers - until he became a tyrant.

The lesson of the rise of hitler, is not unlike that of the lesson of the frog in the pot of water, slowly being heated to a boil. Thats what this bill is. A slow heat, with everyone in - and it gets more and more uncomfortable with each moment, until eventually it kills us. If it were just rejected in the whole cloth - that would be better - we jump out, and survive. Why spend billions of dollars, and not get the real purpose of the bill?

by Trey Rentz 2009-12-16 04:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Shitty as this bill is

WTF is wrong with you people?

by vecky 2009-12-16 08:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean is Right: Kill the Bill

That's not exactly what Dean said.

He said pass the small bits now, and try again in 2 years for the PO.

He also mentioned in 2 years we will have a smaller democratic majority, so i'm not sure how we will get the PO then either, but hey!

by vecky 2009-12-15 05:11PM | 0 recs
Even better

pass this bill now, sneak the public option in via reconciliation next year before the elections.

by ND22 2009-12-15 05:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Even better

That's what i'm hoping for.

If we can make enoguh noise and make it a campaign issue I think we'll get our way. If not the tea baggers will rule the day.

by vecky 2009-12-15 05:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Even better

this is the way lobbyists do things. this is not the way real change happens. The american people want this change, the house passes a bill with that kind of real reform - and then we hit corruption in the senate.

the senate seems to be about preserving continuity in some sense, but this concept that the lobbies have all this power - really has to go.

by Trey Rentz 2009-12-16 04:27AM | 0 recs
Killing the bill isn't going to change that

getting all the problem people out of Congress in the next election will do that.

by ND22 2009-12-16 04:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Killing the bill isn't going to change that

I agree completely. I just checked the maps, and the latest polls show Lieberman in serious trouble, in a region that voted 60% for Obama.

This is an amazing election and if the dems come through, standing on principle - and don't back down they'll be seen as the party of real reform and change. Because one thing is certain. We can bet that Obama will do his job regardless if congress can or can't pull through this time.

And their stock will rise if they go back in full force with the public option and show the GOP as being the ones who are stopping the show instead of infighting dems.

by Trey Rentz 2009-12-16 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Killing the bill isn't going to change that

first the Administration will have to figure out who's side they are on:

"The labor community has already poured massive resources into the health care debate. Now there is a growing concern that the money and time may have not been well spent.

As one high-ranking labor official emailed the Huffington Post:

"What is really frustrating folks here is that it's impossible to make and implement plans to pressure senators when the White House and Reid keep undermining the efforts no one from the outside can put any credible pressure on Senators because they know the White House will back that Senator up whatever they do.

If the White House is going to cave to a Senator who spent the entire election campaigning with McCain and calling Obama a traitor how are we supposed to have any leverage over anyone?

"If Lieberman -- who has done so many horrible things directly to Obama -- can get away with this on Obama's signature issue it makes it infinitely harder for us to pressure senators, on issues in the future, because there is no fear of retribution or coercion from the White House.

They only pressure progressives, not anyone in the middle." /labor-holds-emergency-mee_n_394070.html

by jeopardy 2009-12-16 07:37AM | 0 recs
Yeah you posted this already

by ND22 2009-12-16 09:35AM | 0 recs
Deans Main Point is pretty simple

Pass something in the 11th hour, make it loaded with all kinds of anonymous riders that pay off everyone down the line, 2000 pages of nothing.
Typical lobbyist baloney.

I am comparing our actions in letting this lobbyism rise to a form of permanent institution in ou government - especially when the lobbyists didn't really matter in 2010 - is insane. Its nearly as mad as letting Hitler burn the Reichstag, blame it on the left, and then climb into power. We are tacitly letting the corrupt
path to legislation hold sway over representative legislation with all the "deals". There is no "deal". The representative goes to washington to deliver what we want done. And the vast majority of us want real healthcare reform.

And then of course, there are senators that are number 2 ranked in the senate for taking money from  Insurance companies - that end up making alot of noise , trying to be the '60th vote'.

Thats where the noise is, imho.
Dean is saying now is not the time to just let them walk all over those who gave the real campaign contribution, and the real support.
Obama wouldn't be here were it not for online support.

Neither would Jim Webb, or anyone that got swept into power by the blogosphere.

This reform is important. And 'putting together a deal' tacitly accepts two things, that I disagree with - if this is all 11th hour befor the end of year.

First, it implies that the dems will have a tough time in the off-year elections of '10 - the whole concept that 'seats aren't safe, and we might not have a majority, so we have to do it now'

Second, it implies that this is an important thing, but the real change we voted for isn't going to be in it - so we have to just accept that. We don't.

And just going with the flow, was what got Germany into trouble imho. It would have been mor difficult, in the economic crash that followed the Weimar Republic - to tough it out with all those effed up Jewish bankers monkeying with the money supply - but rounding them up and making up some kind of "we really have to get this done now" kind of solution that eliminated their effect on the financial system, wasn't it.

In the end, this is about principle and its about power. Either the blogosphere is the one in charge, or we're not. I say. Kill the damn bill.

by Trey Rentz 2009-12-16 04:23AM | 0 recs


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