To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama voter

by the Walrus, Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:12:21 PM EDT

I am so sorry. You were right and i was wrong.
I voted for Obama in missouri not out of dislike for Hillary. I was torn and i thought we had 2 good candidates.

What tipped me to Obama was Bill Clinton's headlines in SC during their primary. it reminded me of the dynasty aspect to HRC. bush-clinton-bush-clinton.

I feel tricked. I feel i've helped put the party and the country at risk, and i'm sorry.

i did make a small donation to Hillary yesterday and will continue to try and help.

PS. i like Bill as well, but i really think he needs to stay in the background.

Tags: Hillary, obama (all tags)

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227 Comments

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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Wait, the Walrus, could you elaborate in your diary?

by HillaryKnight08 2008-03-23 07:13PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

what would you like to know? i kinda posted this to explain myself since i did just show up here today, but i've been lurking since thursday or so some.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:15PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama
Why did you change your mind?
Why did you vote for Obama? (I'm not saying you shouldn't have, I'm just asking)
What do you see in Hillary that made you regret your vote?
by HillaryKnight08 2008-03-23 07:18PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

i changed my mind when i met Jeremiah Wright, obama's chosen 20 year "moral compass"
I began to have doubts after hearing Michelle Obama's Proud remark.

If i had picked up the slightest intonation of obama's flaws i never would have been in his camp in the first place.

i know Hillary. i like Hillary. My biggest problem with Hillary would be the war vote, but BO only gets partial credit there anyway.
i was torn. i chose. first time i can remeber not knowing for sure until i marked the ballot.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:25PM | 0 recs
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This will help you put BO's 2002....

speech in perspective so you feel better for your change of heart!

(From No More Apples and Huffington Post)

"9/11 widow Kristen Breitweiser:

But back in '02, for those of us who dared to speak out against President Bush
and his war in Iraq, we stood virtually alone. There was no resounding chorus of
people calling "bullshit" on Bush's folly. No, back in 2002 you were
called unpatriotic if you dared to question the president; labeled as helping the
terrorists if you raised doubt about his divine call to action.

Now forgive me, but I do not recall the help (or the voice) of any Barack Obama
from Illinois. Indeed, I cannot recall hearing or feeling the impact of any one
speech from the Illinois Senator. Did he attend the rally on the mall in Washington?
The marches and protests in NYC? Did he conduct national press interviews? Did he
write any editorials? Organize any protest rallies? Mobilize the people? Did he
write any petitions? If he did, I never saw any of them.

Yet according to Barack Obama, because he spoke out in 2002 against the war in Iraq,
he is better qualified to be president."

ALL TALK.  NO ACTION.

by Shazone 2008-03-23 07:42PM | 0 recs
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Re: This will help you put BO's 2002....

It definitely helps to have a really loose meaning of the word objective...

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 07:54PM | 0 recs
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Re: This will help you put BO's 2002....

....And Bill Clinton dared to question whether or not Obama's anti-war reputation was real, since he was running his campaign on it.  The horrors.

by Scotch 2008-03-23 08:02PM | 0 recs
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It sounds like a fairytale to me!

by Shazone 2008-03-23 08:21PM | 0 recs
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Re: It sounds like a fairytale to me!

How dare you! Are you calling Obama's desire to be president, a fairytale?

by Scotch 2008-03-23 08:23PM | 0 recs
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No, I'm calling it an ego-centered power....

trip.  

The country be damned!!  Michelle and I belong in the White House - you owe it to us!

by Shazone 2008-03-23 08:27PM | 0 recs
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Re: No, I'm calling it an ego-centered power....

Actually, it's:

Hillary: The country be damned!!  I belong in the White House - you owe it to me!

by cal2008 2008-03-23 09:02PM | 0 recs
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Re: No, I'm calling it an ego-centered power....

Wow! Two candidates for the most powerful job in the world, and they BOTH have a huge ego. What are the odds?  :-)

by itsthemedia 2008-03-23 09:25PM | 0 recs
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Re: No, I'm calling it an ego-centered power....

I think you'd have to just to have the courage to run!

by mlr701 2008-03-24 01:52PM | 0 recs
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Re: No, I'm calling it an ego-centered power....

I'm beginning to think that you have the two candidates confused, Shaz. Obama is not the older blonde lady.

I really have a feeling this is going to be an "AHA!" moment for you.

by bookish 2008-03-24 12:10PM | 0 recs
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Re: This will help you put BO's 2002....

It has been shown by independent review that BHO has always said the war was a mistake.  He has never changed his mind about the folly of starting the war.

See for yourself:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec ker/2008/01/obama_and_iraq.html

by 1jpb 2008-03-24 03:28PM | 0 recs
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Re: This will help you put BO's 2002....

I actually agree that Obama hasnt done enough to stop the war. But what did Hillary do? Why do Hillary supporters continue to ignore the fact that she never expressed any kind of surprise when Bush did go to war if her vote only was for the sake of leverage and not a vote for the war.

by Pravin 2008-03-24 11:51AM | 0 recs
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Clinton was the most PEACEFUL president
in modern history.
To frame HRC as a war monger is just disgusting.
by internetstar 2008-03-24 12:35PM | 0 recs
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Re: Clinton was the most PEACEFUL president

Was HRC the president?? Hillaryites cant have it both ways. If she was a virtual president,then she is abusing the spirit of the term limits law. If she wasn't , what does BILL Clinton's realtively peaceful term have to do with this thread?

by Pravin 2008-03-24 02:29PM | 0 recs
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Re: Clinton was the most PEACEFUL president

HRC didn't review the full NIE:

The Chairman at the time was Bob Graham who read the NIE and voted against the war.

Sen. Bob Graham's floor statement urged his fellow Senators to read the full classifed NIE.

Here is Sen. Graham's statement: "Friends, I encourage you to read the classified intelligence reports which are much sharper than what is available in declassified form," Sen. Graham reports stating on the floor of the Senate in October 2002.
"We are going to be increasing the threat level against the people of the United States." He warned: "Blood is going to be on your hands"

HRC didn't want to give the inspectors time to do their work:

UN inspectors said:
   March 7, 2003
    Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei, IAEA: After three months of intrusive inspections, we have to date found no evidence or plausible indication of the revival of a nuclear weapon program in Iraq.
   Dr. Hans Blix, Chief U.N. weapons inspector: How much time would it take to resolve the key remaining disarmament tasks? While cooperation can -- cooperation can and is to be immediate, disarmament, and at any rate verification of it, cannot be instant. Even with a proactive Iraqi attitude induced by continued outside pressure, it will still take some time to verify sites and items, analyze documents, interview relevant persons and draw conclusions. It will not take years, nor weeks, but months.

Hillary Clinton's press release:
   March 17, 2003
   Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on the President's Remarks to the Nation
   When the President of the United States addresses the nation about possible military action, it is a solemn occasion for every American. Tonight, the President gave Saddam Hussein one last chance to avoid war, and the world hopes that Saddam Hussein will finally hear this ultimatum, understand the severity of those words, and act accordingly. While we wish there were more international support for the effort to disarm Saddam Hussein, at this critical juncture it is important for all of us to come together in support of our troops and pray that, if war does occur, this mission is accomplished swiftly and decisively with minimum loss of life and civilian casualties. I have had the honor of meeting and speaking with many of our brave men and women in uniform. They are the best trained, equipped, and motivated military in the entire world, we support them fully and we are grateful for their courageous service in these difficult times.
What was that Bush ultimatum that Clinton refers to? It's this: Saddam Hussein Must Leave Iraq Within 48 Hours.

HRC obviously made a political calculation that it would help her future presidential run by being a tough Senator.  What about the men and women who lost their lives, and those who are injured?  Why didn't she follow Graham and read the NIE?  Why did she support Bush rather than the inspectors?

BHO predicted that the US would remove Saddam.  And, he predicted that the US would be stuck in Iraq.  He has demonstrated that he is ready to be the president.

by 1jpb 2008-03-24 03:38PM | 0 recs
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Nonsense

With all due respect to Ms. Breitwieser.

We actually do know that Barack Obama came out publicly against the war because we have video tape of him at a rally giving the speech. There is also a televised interview of him coming out against the war during the time that he was running for the Senate.

Could anyone show me a video of a speech or interview that either Bill or Hillary Clinton made prior to 2004 where they said anything against going to war in Iraq. This is just revisionist silliness.

by commoncents 2008-03-24 01:37PM | 0 recs
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Re: Nonsense

And that video tape happens to be a reenactment of his speech -- not the real thing

link

New Obama spot a re-reading
Repeats portion of anti-Iraq war speech he delivered in October 2002

October 13, 2007
BY LYNN SWEET Sun-Times Columnist

WASHINGTON -- The Obama campaign readily admits that White House hopeful Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) recently recorded a portion of the Oct. 2, 2002, anti-Iraq war speech he originally delivered at an outdoor rally in Chicago for a new ad that went online Thursday.

But the campaign used a sound effect to create the impression one was listening to the original speech.

"It was Barack re-reading a portion of the speech. As I told you, there is no original tape," Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod, told me in an e-mail exchange.

The 77-second ad uses sound effects that could easily lead one to conclude that one is listening to Obama making the original speech

And Obama gave the speech in October 2002 before he declared he was running for senate in January 2003. I don't recall any other memorable speeches after that.

by dubhe 2008-03-24 04:09PM | 0 recs
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Why did you like him in the first place?

Just curious.

by Shazone 2008-03-23 07:43PM | 0 recs
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Re: Why did you like him in the first place?

against the war from the start.

transcends race.A black president who would lead us all. be good for everybody.

smart proposals for health care. kinda leery of mandatory insurance.
i agree we should talk to our enemies.

like him personally. great speaker.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:45PM | 0 recs
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Re: Why did you like him in the first place?

If he was against the war, why didn't he do ANYTHING to end it when it got the the US Senate.  (His Illinois Senate job was parttime!)

He didn't even hold one committee meeting when he had the chance this year to get involved and get us out of Iraq.  All talk.  No action.  Hey, words matter, but back it up with ACTION!

Unfortunatley, he does not transcend race.  He uses it to suit his purposes and trashes the Clintons who have done more for race relations than he ever will.

by Shazone 2008-03-23 07:51PM | 0 recs
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Re: Why did you like him in the first place?

well i was paying as much attention as i should have been.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:54PM | 0 recs
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I'm sorry. I'm not coming down on you...

The Obamaphiles at this site are just so outrageous that sometimes I lose sight of those who are not.

Welcome to the Hillary support group!

by Shazone 2008-03-23 07:58PM | 0 recs
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Re: I'm sorry. I'm not coming down on you...

Actually, as the Obama supporters are in the minority here, I find them to be, among other things, thick-skinned, but also fairly well versed in politics and issues.

Certainly not Obamaphiles.

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 08:09PM | 0 recs
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Ha!

by Shazone 2008-03-23 08:19PM | 0 recs
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Re: I'm sorry. I'm not coming down on you...

Many (not all) of the regulars are as you say. The Clinton regulars are also (largely) thoughtful and thick skinned.

But sometimes when a diary gets mentioned over on Kos, a swarm of mindless Obama trolls decends. I can see it in the comment threads of pro-Clinton and anti-Obama diaries and front page items. The first half hour or so of comments are all names I see often, both Obama and Clinton supporters, with Clinton people slightly more numerous. The discussion is mainly civil, though we often seem to be talking past each other. Then the "cavalry" arrives, in the form of a glut of content free vitriol, from Obama supporters with screen names I don't recognize. After that point, the discourse, such as it was, devolves into a food fight.

It is oddly, depressingly compelling, like a train wreck. I hate to stare, but I can't look away.

by itsthemedia 2008-03-23 09:37PM | 0 recs
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Re: I'm sorry. I'm not coming down on you...

Is the only way to not be outrageous to support Hillary Clinton?

by AllergicToBS 2008-03-24 12:22PM | 0 recs
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Re: I'm sorry. I'm not coming down on you...

Here it is.  Obama is a crazy Muslim radical whose pastor hates America who is the black candidate but not really black enough, and he gives a good speech but he doesn't have the Proven Leadership (TM) that Sen. Clinton brings to the table.  You know, that experience from fighting NAFTA and running from snipers in Bosnia.

I think I hit everything.

by Builderman 2008-03-24 12:45PM | 0 recs
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Re: Why did you like him in the first place?

Unlike Clinton, Obama actually authored a bill calling for a phased withdrawal. It's hard to argue that he did nothing when at least he did more than she did.

The committee he sits on has zero jurisdiction over Iraq, nor Afghanistan (regardless of Clinton's nonsense claim that it does).

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-03-23 09:39PM | 0 recs
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Re: Why did you like him in the first place?

It has jurisdiction over NATO in Europe, which includes Afghanistan.

by Dave B 2008-03-24 05:13AM | 0 recs
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Why did you like him in the first place?

Smart instincts about mandates, although you definitely lost me by going with HRC.

In MA the mandate plan is out of money and half of the uninsured are still uninsured.  Many of the newly insured were put into federal programs for which they were already eligible, regardless of mandates.  Also, MA has some people who pay the mandate fee, but they still don't have health care.

In CA the mandate plan was supported by all the big insurance companies, but it went down in flames, only getting one out of eleven votes in the committee.

Even car insurance mandates don't work.  States with these mandates have up to 20% of the drivers without insurance.

Michael Moore has said that the HRC plan is no better than the BHO plan.  He says that we need to  a single payer (or some other) plan that removes the insurance companies.

Until something like a single payer is politically possible it is better to focus on costs, without implementing a regressive mandate tax.

The BHO and HRC plans for subsidies are nearly identical, if read them side by side you can't guess which is from BHO and which is from HRC.  But, there will be so called middle class people who won't get subsidize.  Many of these people live paycheck to paycheck and they can't afford the mandate penalty.

There is no great problem of people choosing not to have insurance.  Most people who can afford insurance do have it.  Most of these people work in good jobs, so insurance is a benefit.  People who don't get insurance from an employer, but can afford it on their own will buy it.  People to need a mandate "gun to the head," they already have lose everything you own and go bankrupt "gun to the head," because that is what happens to people if they have a big medical problem, but they aren't poor (no gov program.)

Children should be mandated because they can't decide and there are a lot of programs for kids, especially after the SHCIP expansion.  By the way, did you know that all be big insurance companies were in favor of the SCHIP increase that Bush vetoed.  Don't fool yourself, mandates, like SCHIP, are good for insurance companies.

by 1jpb 2008-03-24 03:44PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Have you really met Jeremiah Wright, or did you watch the 30 seconds sound bites.

If you have a little more than 30 seconds to spare, it would be extremely usefull to watch a more substantial part of a Wright sermon. Of course he went to far at times but listening to the whole narative, it's quite clear that the guy is not a raving lunatic with extremist views.
In his "chickens are coming home to roost" sermon he's preaching fairly basic Christian gospel, turn the other cheek, violence will bring more violence. In short, the pacifist Christian line. And he is strongly warning about how America will react to this, he clearly doesn't want America striking blindly at anything remotelly connected to Al Qaida (like in Iraq for instance).

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=- 8366719372436518627&q=wright+9%2F11+ sermon&total=22&start=0&num= 10&so=0&type=search&plindex= 6

Of course there are a lot of people that do not agree with the guy on some or most of his views, including BHO, but it's very over the top the define the guy as a racist bigot on five or six 30 second sound bites out of hundreds of hours of video.
Fox has tried to do updates on the original story, but what they put out, even as minuscule soundbites, not even comes close to something extreme and damaging. And I'm quite sure they've really tried to sift out something really nasty.

I dare everyone on this forum to come out and state that they have never said anything stupid, bigoted, misogynist that would make a lovely 30 second soundbite. Most of us are just lucky that there isn't that much video available.

by hebi 2008-03-24 12:48AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology

Most of us aren't politicians and our "stupid, bigoted, misogynist" remarks aren't on video.

But what kind of politician would demand the poor donate to his campaign?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGxzqwRJU zM

by annefrank 2008-03-24 04:48AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology

Hmmm, strange. To which of the stupid, bigoted and misogynist remarks of a politician are you referring ???

by hebi 2008-03-24 05:53AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology

Most of us aren't politicians and our "stupid, bigoted, misogynist" remarks aren't on video.

But what kind of politician would demand the poor donate to his campaign?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGxzqwRJU zM

by annefrank 2008-03-24 04:48AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology

Most of us aren't politicians and our "stupid, bigoted, misogynist" remarks aren't on video.

But what kind of politician would demand the poor donate to his campaign?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGxzqwRJU zM

by annefrank 2008-03-24 04:49AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Here, this will make you feel even worse...in regards the "fairy tale" that is Obama's "record on Iraq"

''But, I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports,'' Mr. Obama said. ''What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not mad

"So it's not clear to me what differences we've had since I've been in the Senate. I think what people might point to is our different assessments of the war in Iraq, although I'm always careful to say that I was not in the Senate, so perhaps the reason I thought it was such a bad idea was that I didn't have the benefit of U.S. intelligence. And, for those who did, it might have led to a different set of choices. So that might be something that sort of is obvious. But, again, we were in different circumstances at that time: I was running for the U.S. Senate, she had to take a vote, and casting votes is always a difficult test." [The New Yorker, 10/30/06]
"Not only was the idea of an invasion increasingly popular, but on the merits I didn't consider the case against war to be cut-and- dried." ["Audacity of Hope," 2006, p. 294]

But don't worry, we forgive you.

And it takes a big person to admit they were wrong. :)

by destardi 2008-03-24 10:04AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

You should let Claire McCaskill know how you feel.

by LakersFan 2008-03-24 11:28AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama
thats a good idea. Im already voting for her primary challenger after she caved on the warantless wiretapping.
what s disappointment she has been.
by the Walrus 2008-03-26 08:00PM | 0 recs
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So, no problem with liars, huh?

I mean, her Bosnia tale is pretty far-fetched.

And, of course, the Clinton camp never said all those awful things they did.

This diary stinks of triteness.

by jaywillie 2008-03-24 12:28PM | 0 recs
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Re: So, no problem with liars, huh?

Have a look at your own candidate lately?

It's time to get real.  Barack is a politician, of the same make that we've grown so tired of.  We've caught him in lie after lie this campaign.

I voted for him because I believed he was the real thing.  But he isn't.  We know that now.

So now let's talk about who is qualified and who will actually get this stuff done.

by bobbank 2008-03-24 03:41PM | 0 recs
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you should never

apologize for your vote...even if you have remorse about it

I am not an Obama fan, btw :)

by SevenStrings 2008-03-23 07:15PM | 0 recs
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Re: you should never

i disagree. i voted for the exact opposite of what i thought i was voting for. I should have vette4d him properly. it was my responsibility. thats all.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:16PM | 0 recs
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Re: you should never

you made a mistake... nothing to be ashamed of!

The working assumption behind any successful democraic system is that people will make mistakes...that is why we have checks and balances.

Your right to make that mistake is one of the holiest compacts you have with your government.

It is nice that you are doing that vetting now...no need to apologize for the past !!

by SevenStrings 2008-03-23 07:24PM | 0 recs
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Re: you should never

Not really, Walrus.  It was the media's job to vet Obama.  They didn't do it.  You made a decision based on the information you had at the time as did others who, based on new information, would like to have their votes back.  No apology is necessary but you can help make a difference now.  Go to Hillary's website and sign up to make calls in Pa and NC.  And give what you can.    

by Tolstoy 2008-03-24 11:53AM | 0 recs
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Re: you should never

Are you sure that you now have the complete picture?

BHO was a community activist, president of the Harvard Law Review, a civil rights attorney, and a constitutional law teacher for ten years.  Since entering politics he's had the same philosophy.  In a 1995 profile in The Chicago Reader, he said, "What if a politician were to see his job as an organizer, as part teacher and part advocate, one who does not sell voters short but who educates them about the real choices before them?"

BHO has more experience and success in elected office:

BHO was effective in the IL Senate from start to finish:  tax cuts, health care, health clinics, ethics reform, and justice system reform where he started with no support, strong opposition from special interests, and a promised governor veto.

BHO in DC: arms control, ethics reform (Nancy Pelosi calls "one of the toughest ethics reform" bills in this history of the Congress.), accountability: requirement that government spending be easily accessible by citizens over the internet.

NYT:
The documents offer no support for her claims, made during the presidential campaign, that she helped to negotiate the Irish peace accords or facilitated the flow of refugees in the Balkans. Neither is there evidence in them to back up her claim that she helped pass the Family and Medical Leave Act, the first legislation Mr. Clinton signed as president. The legislation, sponsored by Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut, sailed through Congress and landed on Mr. Clinton's desk 10 days after he was inaugurated. Indeed, on the day Mr. Clinton signed the bill into law, Feb. 5, 1993, there is no indication on that day's calendar that she attended.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/us/pol itics/19cnd-archives.html?_r=2&hp=&a mp;adxnnl=1&pagewanted=1&adxnnlx =1206332846-GUr2Qyp5QfuKHpxWFaKiYQ

And this:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/ 2008/03/hillary-clint-1.html

And this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF 7Y&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/stor yonly/2008/3/23/95418/5038/471/482606

The biggest management experience for BHO and HRC has been their campaigns, obviously BHO is demonstrated that he is better at managing a campaign.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/us/pol itics/10clinton.html?_r=2&hp&ore f=login&oref=login

Also, HRC's reelection spent $41 million to beat a weak competitor who spent less than $6million in a blue state.

Rezko is a non story.  HRC has more fund raisers with legal trouble than BHO.  BHO didn't get a deal on his house.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=n ewsarchive&sid=aR8NLIoQEDc4

by 1jpb 2008-03-24 04:14PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

How may I ask did you put "the country at risk"...?

Unless you bought into Rep. King's meme that Al Qaeda will be dancing in the streets if Obama becomes President....?  Ummm... just so you know, Rep. King is a right-wing, fear-mongering nutcase.

Bigger question...  how does this help your (now) chosen candidate?

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 07:16PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

i mean i don't trust obama now as commander in chief.

and no im not buying into the aforementioned spin.

he's lied to em multiple times at this point.

"there is no white america. There is no black america"
do i have that right?

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:18PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama
I would like to apologize to Obama for you're taking the bait that he is a racist because his pastor went over the top with rants. He had reason to be mad at black's treatment by whites. He just went too far. Obama didn't make those comments. Listen to his whole speech and reconsider. He is trying to bring us, black and white, together.
by deLesseline 2008-03-23 07:31PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Unfortunately, that's just not true. The hate speech of his personal mentor for 20+ years is ample evidence.

by KnowVox 2008-03-23 08:15PM | 0 recs
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All you people
Assisting in the swiftboating of Rev Wright.
I hope you're proud of yourself.
by Drewid 2008-03-24 04:00AM | 0 recs
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Re: All you people

Rev. Wright swiftboated himself with his hate speech.

by KnowVox 2008-03-24 06:14AM | 0 recs
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Re: All you people

amen brother.

Not to mention Obama did himself in with 20 years of supporting DIVISIVE talk.

Seriously, anyone who calls themselves a "uniter" should be aware that "you're judged by the company you keep."

You actually think the best way to address racial self-segregation is to point out a white person has never been called a n*gger?

OMG!

not very smart; obama will lose for the Dems what should have been a blowout victory in 2008.

by destardi 2008-03-24 10:09AM | 0 recs
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Re: All you people

The YouTube clips are exceptionally incendiary clips, they aren't representative of 20 years.  They don't even represent the sermons they were taken from.  See longer clips if you want to know more:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/23/0433 4/5836#10

BHO doesn't hate America, and he didn't throw his granny and all white people under the bus.  He didn't see these especially despicable YouTube clips in person, but he has strongly denounced ever since he found out about them.

Even some wingnuts (including McCain) think that this guilt by association is going too far:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5vzwJXsz ww&eurl=http://andrewsullivan.theatl antic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iqNKEK5x cs&eurl=http://andrewsullivan.theatl antic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTFLOu8fj xU
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanma rtin/0308/Driving_conservatives_crazy.ht ml

by 1jpb 2008-03-24 03:56PM | 0 recs
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Re: All you people

His HATE speech was in reaction to the treatment his generation received from fellow WHITE americans. He has every right to say GODDAMN AMERICA. He served in the military. SO who knows how short his fuse is after probably receiving discimination after serving his country.

We have no problem with politicians demonizing islamic fundamentalists , so why shouldn't he rant about white americans who lived in the 50s and 60s and are still alive now? Are the brutalities in the south any less reprehensible than what Al Quaeda did on 9-11? At least those Al Quaeda guys were so caught up in their fanaticism , they were willing to die. Many of the white cowards who killed or injured black people and hid under a racist justice system.

Obama doesn't agree with Wright on some issues but he can understand what leads a man like that to rant and vent to such an extreme degree. The HIV conspiracy - of course, people like Obama can't buy into it. I personally think it's a silly rant. But I UNDERSTAND why he said it. People have said the same thing in the past about blacks who accused the government of infecting blacks with syphillis intentionally. Guess what, it turned out to be true.

by Pravin 2008-03-24 11:59AM | 0 recs
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Re: All you people

Do you "understand" Hilter, too?

Go ahead and slam "white Americans who lived in the 50s and 60s and are still alive now." Last I checked, they vote.

by KnowVox 2008-03-24 12:04PM | 0 recs
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Re: All you people

Yes, they vote . Republicans vote too. SO why dont we just appeal to them too and just make it easy on all of us and coopt all their popular viewpoints?

by Pravin 2008-03-24 02:28PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Bullshit.  Both he and his wife have injected race into the campaign at every opportunity while at the same time his campaign has skillfully used race baiting tactics for votes.

by Tolstoy 2008-03-24 11:57AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

I believe you left out a part...  There is not a white America and a black America, there is the United States of America...  wow, cutting edge stuff there.

Beyond that, you are welcome to vote for whomever you wish or whatever reason...  but a right wing talking point like "made the county less safe" should really not be used on a progressive site.

Incidentally, you could try citing the "numerous lies" with actual evidence to strengthen your argument.... but that's up to you.  Around here, it seems to fly without citation of links, quotes, or other evidence.

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 07:32PM | 0 recs
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Is this

A competence issue?

An electability issue?

A policy issue?

Or a personality issue??

by Edgar08 2008-03-23 07:24PM | 0 recs
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Re: Is this
Yes.
by Bella 2008-03-23 08:09PM | 0 recs
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Wow...very explanatory

For some reason 13.5 million of your fellow citizens and a plurality of those that voted in your party's naminating contests did not seem to think so.

by nklein 2008-03-24 02:52AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology

Please let us know how you were tricked.  What was it that changed your mind?  I can only believe you if you give some details. Sorry, but I have been tricked myself by pretend Hillary, Obama, supporters on the internet.

As a Hillary supporter, I would welcome your story.  Thank you!

by Scotch 2008-03-23 07:24PM | 0 recs
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kind of sum up reply here.

about a week after the election i got into a bit of an argument with a Hillary supporter. That is i guess who im really addressing with this post.

she told me i was falling for a lot of empty rhetoric and i told her i had voted for change and moving forward(and alot of other empty rhetoric.)
if i ever see her again ill apologize. this is substitute apology therapy for me i guess.

id like to see the discussion in dem circles move beyond the "How Can you Criticize our all but Certified Nominee". that is the first step to saving this election.
so i found my dd. people were talking.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:33PM | 0 recs
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Re: kind of sum up reply here.

But i guess what people are asking you is what was the turning point, and on what issue did you turn away from him.  I would love to know.  Thanks for your answer above, though.

by Scotch 2008-03-23 07:39PM | 0 recs
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No Need to Say Sorry!

i hear comments like your daily. no need to apologize. this si a long primary-things change. the best thing you can do now is make calls for hillary on her website to pa. ive got most my family in mo and most voted obama. they are now with you on this as well!

by art3 2008-03-23 07:25PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Walrus. Thank you for speaking your heart. It takes courage to admit you were wrong. You may get a lot of flak for this sort of thing in these blogs -- esp. from Obama's droids. May the force be w/ you!

by BostonIndependent 2008-03-23 07:25PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

thank you.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:37PM | 0 recs
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Obama droids?

Why the need for the gratuitous insult?

by Carl Nyberg 2008-03-23 08:08PM | 0 recs
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Re: Obama droids?

I'm a Clinton supporter and I agree. Lets ease up on the insults, folks.

by itsthemedia 2008-03-23 09:51PM | 0 recs
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You've been a busy bee.

One day and look at all of your great work, including this:

He is compltely unelectable now, besides being a liar and a racist himself. I don't know where these obama diehard's loyalties lie.

Doesn't freerepublic miss you? (Or is it littlegreenfootballs?)

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 07:27PM | 0 recs
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Re: You've been a busy bee.
i stand behind that statement. 100%.
wanna talk about it?
by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:28PM | 0 recs
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No.

It's ludicrous on its face.

So where do you usually post?

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 07:30PM | 0 recs
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The Walrus

Bob, don't feed the trolls

Walrus. If you really feel duped, then you seem rather naive and uninformed. Its too bad when people buy into Clinton's victim ploy. If you want a candidate who is perfect, please, feel free to name them

Coo Coo Ka-Choo

by Wiz in Wis 2008-03-23 07:35PM | 0 recs
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Re: The Walrus

actually if you really listen, its "goo goo ga joob"

youre thinking of Mrs Robinson.

and i agree with you i was naive and uninformed.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:36PM | 0 recs
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Re: The Walrus

gave you Mojo just for the Simon & Garfunkel correction.

;)

by el mito 2008-03-23 07:38PM | 0 recs
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Re: No.

havent posted in a couple of years anywhere. havent felt the need. Bush was obviously not going to be impeached. what was the point in posting?

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:35PM | 0 recs
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Re: No.

C'mon Bob on "the other " site there are a bunch of ex Hillary fans converted to Obama... it goes both ways and it is bound to happen.

by el mito 2008-03-23 07:36PM | 0 recs
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Read this new poster's language.

Take a look at his/her posts.

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 07:39PM | 0 recs
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Re: Read this new poster's language.

you don't like my lexicon? or mi espanglish?

Why do you get personal when I was trying to be fair with both of you.

by el mito 2008-03-23 07:42PM | 0 recs
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Huh?

What are you talking about? I said read this diarist's day of work here.

What does that have to do with you?

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 07:48PM | 0 recs
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Re: Huh?

heheh
perdón!!!

sometimes it is all about me :)

by el mito 2008-03-23 08:00PM | 0 recs
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Re: Huh?

It's always all about Bob.

by Tolstoy 2008-03-24 12:02PM | 0 recs
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Re: Read this new poster's language.

what language. i called a Obama an unelctable candidate, a liar and a racist.

im pissed. i was tricked. and now we are going to lose 45 states if hes the nominee. my anger isnt hard to understand.

if you want me to elaborate on the 3 points above say so. you certainly havent refuted them. but my purpose is not to offend.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:42PM | 0 recs
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You'll be a big hit here.

You should also post all your work at NoQuarter, too.

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 07:47PM | 0 recs
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Re: You'll be a big hit here.

ive been reading noquarter today, and taylor marsh.

you know any other good anti McCain blogs?

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:49PM | 0 recs
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"Anti-McCain blogs?"

Now THAT'S funny!

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 07:51PM | 0 recs
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Re: "Anti-McCain blogs?"

Pure gold.

by Drewid 2008-03-24 04:04AM | 0 recs
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Re: Read this new poster's language.

Okay..  hold on a moment....

You just called a sitting Democratic Senator a liar and a racist, but then say your purpose is not to offend?  So yes, I would like you to elaborate, substantially on at least those two points, or you can do all three...  why not.

Your purpose is to say whatever you want, offensive or not...  and as long as you say it about Obama, I guess you have found the right place since you aren't likely to get called out about it.

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 07:58PM | 0 recs
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Re: Read this new poster's language.

my purpose with this diary was not to offend. Bob dug up the unlectable racist liar from my first, admittedly angry post here. was responding.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 08:02PM | 0 recs
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Re: Read this new poster's language.

and you said you stand by it and you repeated it and I asked you to back it up with evidence...

And here we are.

I'm supporting the Democrat this Fall but these small minded, ad hominem attacks against a fellow Democrat, a sitting U.S. Senator, while the chorus of Hillary supporters chime in around in tacit agreement make it a struggle even for me to support her.

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 08:13PM | 0 recs
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Re: Read this new poster's language.

did you read my posts.i gave my reasons.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 08:15PM | 0 recs
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Re: Read this new poster's language.

Post them here...  the conversation is apparently still going on, as you still stand by the comments.

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 08:23PM | 0 recs
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Wait, upthread you said you stand by your...

... statement that Obama is a racist "100%."

Now you're claiming you only wrote that in your first post here because you were angry. Yet, a quick look at your first day of posting here finds you repeating it in nearly every post you've made.

So was it done in anger, or do you stand by your statement 100%?

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 08:14PM | 0 recs
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Re: Wait, upthread you said you stand by your...
im claiming no such thing. look at my posts, i call him a racist in probly half of em, because thats what he is. just like jeremiah wright and his grammy and the rest of us typical white people.
but this diary wasnt about that, when i started it.
by the Walrus 2008-03-23 08:17PM | 0 recs
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You're not keeping your story straight.

You should have rehearsed more before signing up. Or created a cheat sheet with your fake "bio" handy.

You've talked yourself into a circle.

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 08:19PM | 0 recs
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Go play with your dog, Bob

you need some fresh air.

by catfish1 2008-03-24 01:22PM | 0 recs
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Ignore Bob. He is trying to bait you.
by cjbardy 2008-03-23 10:13PM | 0 recs
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Re: Ignore Bob. He is trying to bait you.

How is questioning the reasons behind someone's statement "baiting" someone?

The Walrus has claimed that he/she was an Obama supporter, yet all we have seen in her/his comments and diaries is vitriol thrown at Obama.  The Walrus does not have a long history on this blog (as far as I can tell). And when asked about the reasons for this sudden change of heart, he/she responds "Wright" and some conversation w/ a Hillary supporter about empty rhetoric.  As an Obama supporter, I have seen this meme thrown our way and I have yet to see an Obama supporter to dramatically change allegiance as the diarist describes.  It does not entirely sound credible to me (and apparently others, including Hillary supporters upthread).

Please forgive me if it is difficult to take the diarist at his/her word when there is no evidence of his/her past support for Obama.  It is not unusual nor rare for an anonymous blogger to misrepresent himself/herself.  And the vitriol that the Walrus uses does not engender trust among us.

by nklein 2008-03-24 03:11AM | 0 recs
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Re: Read this new poster's language.
I don't think his purpose was to offend. I think it was to tell the truth. Can't you handle the truth?
by cjbardy 2008-03-23 10:12PM | 0 recs
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Re: Read this new poster's language.

How is calling a person that millions believe passionately in a liar and a racist not meant to offend?

by nklein 2008-03-24 03:12AM | 0 recs
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Re: Read this new poster's language.

I don't know.  Why do Obama supporters call the Clintons liars and racist?  Last I checked, millions admire and respect them too.

by Dave B 2008-03-24 05:26AM | 0 recs
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Re: Read this new poster's language.

I haven't called them liars or racists.  I'm only responsible for what I do.  Just as the person I'm responding to is responsible for what they say.  

by nklein 2008-03-24 06:28AM | 0 recs
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Re: You've been a busy bee.

You probably should edit your diary to make it more complete. All it does is read as a random comment in an open thread.

by Pravin 2008-03-24 12:02PM | 0 recs
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Re: You've been a busy bee.

You caught that too...?  

I was kind of laughing when I read the comments earlier, but then fell out of my chair onto the floor laughing when I read the diary....

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 07:37PM | 0 recs
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Re: You've been a busy bee.

Ummm...

Just wow really.

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 08:00PM | 0 recs
Mars_attacks
Re: You've been a busy bee.

My, but that's a thoughtful thing to say.

by fogiv 2008-03-24 01:52PM | 0 recs
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Re: You've been a busy bee.
you're right a little bout that first post of mine there bob. i shouldn't be questioning peoples loyalty.
anger there. sorry.
by the Walrus 2008-03-23 08:45PM | 0 recs
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Well...

Thanks for your vote!!  I know you feel bad now but you've been whiplashed by the media.   I guess you're one of those people in the daily tracking polls who swing it around every few days depending on the lastest media spin.  If you like Hillary now you can help her perform a miracle and win.  

by Hope08 2008-03-23 07:36PM | 0 recs
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Re: Well...

Given the diarist has already voted, I don't see how he or she can help...  except to continue to "entertain" us all with the comments and diaries...   We were missing some vitriol and baseless accusations against Obama on this site...  Whew, thank goodness that base is covered now.

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 07:39PM | 0 recs
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Re: Well...

There are a lot of ways The Walrus can still help Clinton. I'm surprised you would say something like that actually, because I am sure you know all about phone banking, donations, etc. But maybe you were just trying to crush The Walrus' spirit, since you now perceive The Walrus as an enemy.

by itsthemedia 2008-03-23 09:59PM | 0 recs
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Re: Well...

I don't perceive any fellow Democrat as the enemy...  and I don't volunteer in the primary season, but I work for the general election.

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-24 05:52AM | 0 recs
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Who here agrees with the diarist...

... that Obama is a racist?

Anyone?

Any of you folks who recommended this diary?

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 07:50PM | 0 recs
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Re: Who here agrees with the diarist...

Typical White Person
is a racist statement.

is Typical Black Person a racist statement.

Obama made a gross generalization when describing his grandma, who he equated with his lunatic mentor.

that is racist.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:53PM | 0 recs
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Oh, I know you agree with yourself.

I was asking others here if they agree with you that Obama is a racist.

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 07:56PM | 0 recs
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Re: Oh, I know you agree with yourself.

whatever, you arent saying anything.just attacking me cause im new here and you dont like what i have to say.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:57PM | 0 recs
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By the way...

How can you call NoQuarter an "anti-McCain blog?" Larry Johnson who runs the blog has said he will back McCain if Obama wins the Dem nomination.

I think you are fibbing.

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 08:00PM | 0 recs
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Re: By the way...

well i didnt know that. just found them this afternoon.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 08:01PM | 0 recs
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He's full of it Walrus

Larry posts anti-McCain stuff there. I don't know if he'd vote Obama if he's the nominee, but he isn't for McCain.

by catfish1 2008-03-24 01:32PM | 0 recs
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Re: Oh, I know you agree with yourself.
I'd like to apologize to you for the Obama supporters on this thread.  They are being obnoxious.  They think that that is acceptable.
That's just how they are.
by Scotch 2008-03-23 08:11PM | 0 recs
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Re: Oh, I know you agree with yourself.

i think bob still thinks obama is above the race issue. those days are over, imo.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 08:13PM | 0 recs
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Do you agree with Walrus that Obama is a racist?

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 08:15PM | 0 recs
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Re: Oh, I know you agree with yourself.

Okay...  what are you talking about..?

The diarist refers to Obama as a racist and a liar without offering a shred of evidence...  and you are apologizing for the Obama supporters...?  This diary is a hit piece masquerading as an apology (put the country at risk by voting for Obama).  But the Obama supporters are out of line somehow?

What alternate universe Democratic site is this?

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 08:18PM | 0 recs
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Re: Oh, I know you agree with yourself.

I don't know. But it is entertaining.

by Drewid 2008-03-24 04:09AM | 0 recs
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Yes, he has issues with white women.

Granted, I can see why he does. But he has issues that he hasn't worked out.

His speech:

1. Glass ceiling experienced by "white women". Not other women? Just white women?

  1. Income inequality experienced by "black men". Not black women?
  2. Wife Michelle is a "black american". Not a black woman?
  3. Granny.
  4. Typical white person.

A pattern of the black man vs. the white woman fighting for the same jobs.

by catfish1 2008-03-24 01:26PM | 0 recs
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Re: Who here agrees with the diarist...
Not sure whether or not comments like these could be classifed as 'racist but certainly predjudical and offensive.
Typical Black person.
THOSE people
Typical White person
YOU people
All these comments are meant to demean one race or one type of person (such as the disabled, mentally retarded, poor, many other races) In other words it says that in YOUR mind they are all the same and in some ways inferior to the speaker.  
In Obama's comment "Typical White Person" means to infer that all white persons are typical in their fears of Black people and might not be a'racist'statement but completely and utterly uninformed and ignorant.
by Justwords 2008-03-24 12:51AM | 0 recs
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Re: Who here agrees with the diarist...

He was refering to his own grandmother.  My grandmother had issues with race as well.  My grandmother may have had more issues than Obama's b/c that "typical white person" accepted a black son-in-law and grandson (the true act of a racist), I'm not sure my grandmother would have.  But I still loved my grandmother.

Can't we love those in our lives and still recognize their faults?  Are not we allowed leeway in the language we use when we refer to our own family members?  Or must we use perfect verbiage throughout our lives and not possibly misspeak?  And b/c of this one statement, you throw your presidential candidate over board.  I've talked to former Obama supporters and they were not a vitriolic as you are.  So with all the above, you don't sound credible to me.

by nklein 2008-03-24 03:22AM | 0 recs
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Re: Who here agrees with the diarist...

typical white person may seem to you, Bob, a small thing to call the man a racist over.

but he set himself up as the post racial candidate. He was supposed to transcend race.

and anyway, you couldn't sit in that pew for 20 years and not be a racist.
it isnt a one way street.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 07:56PM | 0 recs
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Now I get it!

You're Sean Hannity!

Welcome, Sean!

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 07:57PM | 0 recs
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Re: Now I get it!

Darnit it all Bob... you keep beating me to it...!

Seriously, to all of the Hillary supporters, how is this diarist helping your cause...?  I am genuinely curious.

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 08:03PM | 0 recs
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Re: Now I get it!

maybe its not. just wanted to let the Hillary all along folks know that some of us who helped obama to those wins regret it sincerely. at least on of us anyway.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 08:05PM | 0 recs
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Re: Who here agrees with the diarist...

Is it racist for a white person like Obama to say "typical white person?"

by Liberal Avenger 2008-03-23 08:17PM | 0 recs
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Re: Who here agrees with the diarist...

Don't bring your spamming and harrassment here from DailKos.  It is not as welcome  as it  is at the Trash Bin.

by Scotch 2008-03-23 08:04PM | 0 recs
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Do you agree with Walrus that Obama is a racist?

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 08:10PM | 0 recs
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Re: Do you agree with Walrus

Not playing your question and answer game.  Sorry.

by Scotch 2008-03-23 08:13PM | 0 recs
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Re: Do you agree with Walrus

It was a simple question....

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 08:19PM | 0 recs
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Where does the diarist say

Obama is a racist?

by mnicholson0220 2008-03-23 08:05PM | 0 recs
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Re: Where does the diarist say

that is my opinion. yes sir. i think from his choice to make that man his mentor, stay in that church for 20 years equate his granny with his chosen pastor and then call her a typical white person it is safe to say obama is a racist.

but i didnt start this diary to discuss Bo's racism. Bob dug that up troll hunting. and i already stated my position that he is, so you couldve read my respnse without bringing it up again.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 08:09PM | 0 recs
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All over the comments section.

Read Walrus' comments here.

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 08:10PM | 0 recs
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Re: Who here agrees with the diarist...
Who here agrees with the diarist... (none / 0)

... that Obama is a racist?

Anyone?

Any of you folks who recommended this diary?

Didn't rec it. Don't agree.

by sricki 2008-03-23 09:12PM | 0 recs
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Re: Who here agrees with the diarist...

Bob - we don't have to agree with every word and every thought in a diary to rec it.
Well - not here anyway.

Surely, you don't want to go the Thought Police and Purity route.

by annefrank 2008-03-24 05:01AM | 0 recs
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Re: Who here agrees with the diarist...

I'm curious, what part of this diary did you like enough to rec it? The quality of the writing? The well thought out nature? The in depth analysis? The fact that it fullfilled a deep desire that Obama supporters will suddenly change their minds and prove you rigth?

I can't imagine you will vote for any slate that has someone you believe is a liar and a racist as its VP, so you might want to change your tag.

by AllergicToBS 2008-03-24 12:47PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Walrus may regret voting for Obama, but not for voting for Bush -- twice.

by Liberal Avenger 2008-03-23 07:51PM | 0 recs
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Agreed.

S/he's pining for a third Bush term.

by Bob Johnson 2008-03-23 07:52PM | 0 recs
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Re: Agreed.

yeah...  oh, and additionally, Obama is only ahead by Walrus' one vote, hence all the regret...

Oh wait, no, the margin is quite a bit larger than that... never mind.

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-23 08:04PM | 0 recs
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lack of history hurts credibility

Color me skeptical.

If someone without a comment history shows up and claims to be a convert, I'm thinking s/he could be a plant.

But the arguments are so flimsy, it seems like it could be credible.

by Carl Nyberg 2008-03-23 08:13PM | 0 recs
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Re: lack of history hurts credibility

understandable. that was part of the reason for the diary to introduce myself after id already been insulted and accused of voting for bush twice because of my opinion of Obama.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 08:21PM | 0 recs
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Re: lack of history hurts credibility

Are you concerned that Clinton supporters have used bigotry and racial divisiveness to get less educated "White" Democrats to vote for HRC?

by Carl Nyberg 2008-03-23 08:25PM | 0 recs
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Re: lack of history hurts credibility

Links for your claims, please. From credible sources, that is.

by Soitgoes 2008-03-23 09:04PM | 0 recs
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Re: lack of history hurts credibility

I asked for a personal judgment.

If you can't answer the question, that pretty much says all that needs to be said.

by Carl Nyberg 2008-03-23 09:47PM | 0 recs
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Re: lack of history hurts credibility

nope, not concerned because hillary supporters are not as you claim.

are you concerned that obama has such strong ties to a racist preacher?  are you concerned that obama has said very racist comments himself?

by Scope441 2008-03-23 09:52PM | 0 recs
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Re: lack of history hurts credibility

What has Obama said that is offensive to you?

by Carl Nyberg 2008-03-23 09:56PM | 0 recs
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Re: lack of history hurts credibility

What did Rev. Wright say that offended you?

by Carl Nyberg 2008-03-23 09:57PM | 0 recs
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Man the media did a great job
Swiftboating Rev. Wright and Hillary's supporters just picked up the ball and ran with it.
Whole yardstick, measure, others, you and all.
by Drewid 2008-03-24 04:12AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Thank you, Walrus, for posting this diary! I know buyer's remorse is a difficult to endure but kudos to you for sharing. The Obama diehards don't like it but the Hillary supporters are thrilled.

Obama has been terribly deceptive so it's no wonder a lot of people have been taken in by his rhetoric and hype. The media has been way too harsh on Hillary who deserves much better coverage than she's getting.

Hillary may well prevail and she'll make a wonderful president.

by Nobama 2008-03-23 08:29PM | 0 recs
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Understanding Obama

Bilmardre's comment is worth a read.

As for the "typical white person" remark, Obama has expanded on this:

On CNN last night, Obama explained, "What I meant really was that some of the fears of street crime and some of the stereotypes that go along with that are responses that I think many people feel."

He added, "Good people - people who are not in any way racist - are still subject to some of these images and stereotypes and it is very hard to escape from them." - Link

However we react to his campaign, the good and the not so good, the choice is ultimately ours to make, as he said. He did warn that the journey towards change was not going to be easy. He was not kidding!

by Freedom 2008-03-23 09:04PM | 0 recs
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Re: Understanding Obama

This is yet another of Obama's backpeddling "Uh, uh, what I REALLY meant to say was...." moments that his handlers have helped him frame to get away from the flak of his original statements. Double yawn from me.

by Soitgoes 2008-03-23 09:13PM | 0 recs
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Re: Understanding Obama

Come to think of it, I'd rather someone recognizes a mistake and backpedals than deliberately and flagrantly lies to me. And Eskow has more on this particular "non-truth".

by Freedom 2008-03-23 09:22PM | 0 recs
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Re: Understanding Obama

He backpeddles because his handlers let him know how what he's saying or doing is being received. He then goes out on damage control with his handlers' messages well in place. Not exactly soul searching.

by Soitgoes 2008-03-23 09:27PM | 0 recs
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Walrus, don't let Bob get to you...

He's pretty well known to be a baiting troll who will try and needle you into oblivion. It's best not to respond to him (in other words, don't feed the troll). Eventually he goes away if he can't draw anyone into a fight or he can't find enough other like minded posters to perform Clinton bashing parties with. Welcome,by the way!

by Soitgoes 2008-03-23 09:10PM | 0 recs
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Dems, we've screwed each other this election.

Republicans should exult.  I'm not sure if the folks on dailykos and mydd are in the minority, but the gulf between Hillary and Obama supporters is so wide that they might as well be from the extremes of opposing parties.  Though they are so close in terms of policy, the campaign has made it so that most of the Hillary supporters here won't support Obama in the general, and a good bit of the Obama supporters here (including me) won't support Hillary in the general.  And some supporters of each actually out and out hate each other.  We can't even stand to talk to each other anymore.

The perfect storm for Dems in '08 is sinking our own damned ship.  

Only an Iraq explosion and an economic implosion can save the Dems divided house now.  And a Hillary-Obama make-up love-fest that convinces all of us to join together again as one party.

Sad.

by maconblue 2008-03-23 09:30PM | 0 recs
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Re: Dems, we've screwed each other this election.

I don't think there's anything to be sad about, maconblue. This is what happens when people are empowered. At the end of the day, nobody (except the ignorant ones) votes against his or her own interests.

by Freedom 2008-03-23 09:40PM | 0 recs
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Yup he is

I will say it.  I believe Obama is a racist.

Thank you Walrus candid conversation.

I actually vetted Obama right after IA.  I loved his speech and wanted learn more about him.

So, i came across his church.  The website alone came across extermely racist.  I researched wright and realized immediately that he was a racist and just couldn't understand why obama, someone who transends race could belong to a church like that and call a man like wright his mentor.  i belived then that he was a racist.

i started posting on this site my concerns about the church.  remember, this is months before all this hit the news.  i posted on this site asking for people's thoughts.  and obama supporters, not very different from bob johnsons and jenkinfla's, called me the racist and said that church meant nothing.  i couldn't even have an honest debate with them.

then michelle's comments hit the news, wrights sermons show up on youtube and now obama saying his grandmother was a typical white person.  come on, if any white person spoke about blacks this way, there were be an uproar.  and there should be!  just like there should be when a black talks about whites this way.  

add all this together and YES, i do think obama is a racist.  i could careless if he is a sitting senator.  i believe trent lott is a racist and he was a sitting senator.  i believe obama is as well.  my head isn't in the sand.  

by Scope441 2008-03-23 09:32PM | 0 recs
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A different point of view ...

From Brite Divinity School:

All speeches, sermons and documents need to be understood through the setting, historical moment, issues and audience they address. Religious leadership always includes the prophetic responsibility to speak and act in behalf of God's justice. As a religious leader, Wright's preaching is clearly in the broad stream of scholars and preachers who stand on the biblical foundation of prophets such as Amos, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Jesus who also spoke words of God's judgment to the political and religious community of their day.

Such prophetic preaching is especially valued in the tradition of the black church, which serves for many as the only safe place where African-Americans may speak honestly about the experience of racial injustice in this country. The righteous anger of a prophet, as shown in scripture, must not be confused with hate speech. - Link.


As for the "typical white person" remark, methinks you are beating a dead horse. Senator Obama has already explained what he meant to say. Race is a very awkward subject, even more so in a society that has kept those issues under wraps for so long. It is therefore to be expected that there would be gaffes made whenever it is discussed. The question is whether we deliberately convert those gaffes into loops from which we hope never to escape for fear of what lies ahead. Or we move on and confront the challenges.

by Freedom 2008-03-23 09:57PM | 0 recs
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Re: A different point of view ...

Hah. "race is a very awkward subject"

For whites, not for blacks.

by destardi 2008-03-24 10:18AM | 0 recs
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Re: A different point of view ...

I think that's the point - for someone who orates so well, he has a difficult time saying what he really means.  So much so that a new acronym has appeared on the blogs - W.O.R.M. - What Obama Really Meant.

Why don't he and his wife just say what they really mean?  After all, he claims to be a new kind of politician...

by cmugirl90 2008-03-24 12:51PM | 0 recs
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Wrong

Yes, race is a touchy topic.  however, obama is very well educated, there is no excuse for some of the rhetoric he has used.

i am a white male and his church specifically has grouped me in with the "white man" has caused our problems.  they have blamed me.  i am the furthest thing from a racist and have never done anything to hold back someone who is african american.  yet that church has painted me as the bad guy.  obama supports that church and uses terms like "typical white person."  sorry, i expect more out of someone at obama's level.  i would NEVER say "typical black person."  i know that is racist and wouldn't even think of saying something like that.  

obama is smarter than that.  i question if he actually believes what he says and what wright says.  i see NO evidence that says he doesn't believe it.  

by Scope441 2008-03-23 10:06PM | 0 recs
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Re: Wrong

See, I bet you don't even realize that you just wrote something that is quite racist:

i would NEVER say "typical black person."  i know that is racist and wouldn't even think of saying something like that.

Why would you think that saying "a typical black person" is racist? Could it be it's because you associate "bad things" to the idea of "a typical black person"? And therefore your brain tells you that this is not a good thing to "think" (too late, by the way) nor to say?

Does calling someone "a typical white person" bring forth images of "bad things" also? In the case of Senator Obama, he explicitly specified that he was not referring to anything racist, but to defensive behaviour when confronted with the unknown. That is a question that needs to be answered.

by Freedom 2008-03-23 10:19PM | 0 recs
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Re: Wrong

it is racist because it is a generalization.

theyre all this or that, all white/black people.

yeah, some of this is in most. Obama set a higher standard with his campaign. and when he slipped, it calls into question the rationale for his candidacy. he was the post racial candidate. the one to help the rest of us get there.

that's gone, and in that new light his campaign looks like a campaign with lots of style, too much style. too much fluff. hope, change, future, past and what does any of it mean, really. i mean his and hillary's proposals are quite close in most areas.

and there is other baggage with obama, seems like more everyday with this shady real estate deal, and this passport thing. as if the "moral compass" he chose wasnt enough. it is collapsing.
collapsed, for me anyway.

--
how effective do you think "GodDamn America" in an endless loop in October will be?
not to be rude, just sayin.

by the Walrus 2008-03-23 10:29PM | 0 recs
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Re: Wrong

actually what i said isn't racist at all.  if i am referring to something that is negative and then tie in an entire race of people, that is racist.  that assumes that all people of that race are what ever it is you are arguing.  

obama did that when he said "typical white person."  that is why i don't say "typical white person or typical black person."  it groups everyone in that race in one particular way.  there are good white people and bad white people.  there are good black people and bad black people.  obama put all whites into one stereotype.  that is racist.

do we need to further our "racism 101" discussion?

by Scope441 2008-03-23 10:39PM | 0 recs
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Re: Wrong

interesting that if you believe that by me saying "typical black person" is racist, than you obviously agree that obama saying "typical white person" is racist as well.

proves my point further.

by Scope441 2008-03-23 10:43PM | 0 recs
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Re: Wrong

Hey! I did NOT say that your "saying 'typical black person' is racist". What I wrote is that there is an inherent racism in saying that the THOUGHT and subsequent UTTERANCE of "a typical black person" is racist (hence that's why you would never go there, you said).

Take, for example, this study on German mentality. It is, of course, a cultural study related to the business world. It's an interesting study. Nothing very controversial. Do you think it would be the same if the study was dealing with Nazi Germany? I don't think so.

What I am saying is that the concept of "typical whatever" becomes damaging when it contains within itself negative attributes. So, when YOU say that you will not even think about the concept of "typical black person" because to do so would be racist, I say you are already a racist because even as you are conceiving the notion of "a typical black person," you have ALREADY attributed "bad things" to it. In other words, given the way that you've been socialized, you cannot help being racist.

BTW, here is an interesting read.

by Freedom 2008-03-23 11:49PM | 0 recs
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Thanks for this Diary!
No need to apologize. I think there are a lot of folks who voted for Obama early on, who would change their vote if they could. Now, our job is to do whatever we can to help HRC.
by cjbardy 2008-03-23 10:19PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

I swear, it feels like sometimes the Clinton people create BS new accounts with lame stories having nearly no reasoned analysis just to perpetuate among themselves the myth that Hillary is somehow turning this around.

by TheSilverMonkey 2008-03-23 10:26PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

I swear, it feels like sometimes the Clinton people create BS new accounts with lame stories having nearly no reasoned analysis just to perpetuate among themselves the myth that Hillary is somehow turning this around.

by TheSilverMonkey 2008-03-23 10:28PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

It's ok, we understand that obama supporters tend to be hypersensitive about things such as race, and are prone to perceiving things that aren't there.

For instance:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/ did_clinton_darken_obamas_skin.html

yea, I'll try not to laugh...

by destardi 2008-03-24 10:16AM | 0 recs
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Re: The Walrus

I'm afraid I have to burst your bubble... Monkey.  I've seen "the walrus" posting pro-Obama previously.  Can you not believe that someone would have buyer's remorse over him? Considering his unfavorable ratings have increased, and his positive ratings have decreased, and Hillary has gained on him in the polls (sadly so has McCain.)

by Catriley sez 2008-03-24 11:48AM | 0 recs
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Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi mosaics!

Everyone must go here and look at the mosaics of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.  They look just like Bush did on his mosaic using the faces of the fallen to make their faces of this blasted WAR!!!!  4,000 and counting!

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

by mcctx 2008-03-23 10:52PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters

It's a shame that Hillary's supporters stoop to race baiting and finding racist motives where there are none. I believe after this election African Americans will no longer vote as a block for dems. The stuff I've seen among so-called liberal dems has been horrifying.

Obama is definitely not a racist and neither is Wright. Obama is a product of a voluntary union of white and black. Wright, however, is "whiter" than Obama. He is a product of rape. The white part of him wants nothing to do with him. So he is angry, but he is not a racist. I have heard nothing in his sermons that would indicate racial animus toward whites. He even made a point of attacking RICH white people only. He did not attack all white people. Wright has spoken out in defense of native Americans, Japanese, Iraqis, etc. What racist, black or white, does that?

Look, Hillary blew this campaign. Stop trying to tear down good men because your candidate f'd up.

In spite of the fears of the Republican attack machine, I believe that Hillary and her supporters have dredged up crap that republicans will be unwilling to dredge up. Added to that, McCain is a more decent and principled person than Hillary. Therefore the general election will be easier for Obama, in terms of racist attacks and race-baiting, than this dem primary has been.
 

by mcgish 2008-03-24 01:06AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters

So you agree he attacked rich white people?  attacking rich white people is ok to you then?  i come from a well off family, we are white, yet we are NOT racist.

its a shame to see so many democrats lose their core values.  this party is supposed to be against racism and stand up against it.  obama had his chance to do that with the racist wright and he did nothing.

by Scope441 2008-03-24 06:30AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters

He did not attack them. My mistake. He truthfully declared that rich white people run the country (they also run the world). Do you dispute this?

by mcgish 2008-03-24 01:36PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters

You can only dredge up, what exists to be "dredged up".

Hillary didn't do this; the republicans have been bitching about this for a year.

To suggest that a person who is mixed heritage can't be racist is...DUMB.  D U M B.

See my other posts above on why your post is..D U M B.

by destardi 2008-03-24 10:14AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters

John Kerry and Ted Kennedy are "rich white people".  FYI.

To excuse Wright's behavior and hate rhetoric because of extenuating cirumstances in his background, or the horrors of slavery,  is still wrong.

But if you believe that Wright is not being hateful because he or AAs have a reason for their resentment, then why is it that so many American citizens of Japanese descent were herded off to internment camps, lost everything, had families separated, yet you do not have churches filled with Japanese Americans screaming their hatred of America or "white people"?  The crimes against the Japanese Americans occurred in our lifetime, yet they act nothing like Rev. Wright.

by Catriley sez 2008-03-24 11:45AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters

There are Japanese who are resentful of whites and carry bitter memories. There are also Chinese and hispanics and arabs and Africans who are resentful of whites.

by mcgish 2008-03-24 01:40PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters

but to equate the internment of Japanese with the black American experience is sheer ignorance. The thing that blacks are most imbittered about is being stripped of their sense of self, their language, names, culture and their humanity. And then add hundreds of years of slavery and Jim Crow. The internment of Japanese, while terrible, does not even begin to rise to this level of horror.

by mcgish 2008-03-24 01:44PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters

don't try to compare who has had it worse.  discrimination and pain is discrimination and pain.  its all equally just as bad.  

if you get into a pissing match about who had it worse in the past, we will never move on and make it right.  this is the problem with wright.  he is too busy building anger and hatred toward whites.  instead he should be using his energy toward making the community better and improving it.

wright is a sad racist man who is bad for the black community.

by Scope441 2008-03-24 02:39PM | 0 recs
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Welcome back, Dear Walrus!
Welcome back, Dear Walrus!
You still can help and undo what you did before:
register with www.hillaryclinton.com , sent money to her campaign, call to potential voters in remaining states,
talk with other people and convert them to Hillary, publish more on mydd, dailykos and other blogs about reasons why you converted - be creative!
This country needs Hillary and we need your help!
by engels 2008-03-24 02:33AM | 0 recs
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Re: McBillary is $1 per super delegate!

    Enough is enough! We both love our given canidates but, as such, we should both respect and admire the positions that we are blessed to be in. Obama's sooo fake! wah wah! Hillary's so robotic! wah wah! PLEASE, don't lose sight of the real fight here. Either canidate will be a change of our current lil bush canidacy!

amen my dems!

by rkcdvd 2008-03-24 02:54AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary

Just to clarify, stating that the "typical black person" has brown eyes is not racist.

Stating that the typical black person enjoys fried chicken is prejudiced.

Stating that the typical black person steals jobs from better qualified white applicants is racist.

What Obama said was not racist in its context and only seems so when the bite, "typical white person" is taken out with no verbs or objects to place it in context.

I do have a serious question.  I see many people accusing Jeremiah Wright of being a racist.  In all seriousness, what comments specifically do people find racist?

by shalca 2008-03-24 03:02AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary

It's evident that Rev. Wright had/has hate and resentment towards the white race and that he promoted this to his parishioners, while Obama sat silent.

He makes the case that the USA govn't is controlled by rich white people. And in the same breath blames the GOVn't for plaguing AA's with AIDs.

He claims Jesus was black and was oppressed by white  romans.

Message: blacks are superior and the bible says so.

if you don't want to call that racism, then fine. But it's definitely ani-american, divisive, hateful, and repulsive.

by c4every 2008-03-24 08:52AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary

Well, to be fair, we do dominate every major sport that we care to play.

And yes, it's a joke. Lighten up, people.

by Darknesse 2008-03-24 12:40PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary

Wow, are you ignorant.

"most black people have brown eyes" is not racist?

HAHAHAAHAH!  Sorry, but for the black folk who have grey or otherwise colored eyes, it's VERY insulting.

man, look at this joker...

Seriously, anyone who calls themselves a "uniter" should be aware that "you're judged by the company you keep."

You actually think the best way to address racial self-segregation is to point out a white person has never been called a n*gger?

OMG!

not very smart; obama will lose for the Dems what should have been a blowout victory in 2008.

by destardi 2008-03-24 10:12AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary

Most black people do have brown eyes.  I'm black, and everyone in my extended family has brown eyes and half of my family is mixed.  99% of the black people I encounter in my black neighborhood has brown eyes.  Saying so is not racist.

Now I wasn't defending Wright's statements.  I have to admit that some were hate filled.  But I was seriously asking which people found racist.  I can understand the "rich white people" comment.  I do see it as a fact that the government is mostly run by wealthy people who are white and that has been the case since the founding of this nation.  But I understand how white people may actually attribute his statements to them, even though he qualified white people with the adjective rich.  I'm guessing the vast majority of white people in this country are not rich.

I can't argue that his statements can be seen as divisive, and angry, I was wondering what specifically people found racist.

by shalca 2008-03-24 10:52AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary

Well, with the exception of my father (cataracts)and my daughter (Hazel) every single member of my family who is at least a quarter Black has brown eyes.

It's like saying that Asian people have Brown Eyes and Black Hair. IT'S TRUE, NOT RACIST.

In fact, they don't even have a place for eye and hair color on Japanese Driver's Licenses.

by Darknesse 2008-03-24 12:42PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary

In fact, they don't even have a place for eye and hair color on Japanese Driver's Licenses.

Wow, I never knew that - it's now my cool thing learned for the day.

Thanks Darknesse!

by mlr701 2008-03-24 02:19PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Don't apologize. You did what you thought was right.
Take it as a learning experience-- don't believe everything you read & hear. The Clintons have been vilified by the media & Obama has been offered as the second coming.  

Glad to see people are opening their eyes.

It's not too late.

by c4every 2008-03-24 08:31AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Please write to superdelegates. Write to your congress people. Write to DNC. It is not too late. Let us do something to correct the course and thank you for seeing the light. As a Hillary supporter, I do not presume she is perfect but she is definitely the winning candidate for GE.  

by pm317 2008-03-24 08:37AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

thanks to everyone who read my apology. Thanks for the support and for letting me know there are no hard feelings. for those who don't believe what i have to say theres nothing i can do to make you believe me. peace to all.

and lets nominate a candidate With a Chance to win the GE.

by the Walrus 2008-03-24 08:50AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Bravo,  Walrus!   Your  new instincts  are   well founded.  

Rev.  Wright's  church   philosphy  believes  that  the  white  church (and  anyone in  them)  is  the  Antichrist.     That's   RACIST.    

But  welcome   back  to  the  rational,  well-educated,   fact-based ,  issues-oriented   Democratic   base,    where    NO ONE   without  the  Obamanaut  emotional  hysteria  believes   Bill or  Hillary  Clinton  are  racists.    

Just  ignore  the  trolls  and  their  childish  baiting.  

There  are  MANY  previous   Obama   voters  who  have   "seen   the light"  and  rejected  his   "just  words"  campaign.      He is not  who   Axelrod   has  marketed  him  as ,  and now  that   many  have  seen  the  real  man,  they  are   disillusioned  and  disappointed  by having  been    HOODWINKED  and  BAMBOOZLED.    

He   is  unelectable  in  November.   Period.    

And  I'm   a life-long  Democrat.  

Congratulations   for   re-thinking   and  choosing   rationally  this  time!!!

by auntmo 2008-03-24 09:34AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Do you have a link where Wright compares the white church to the anti-christ?

by shalca 2008-03-24 10:54AM | 0 recs
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An apology from an Obama Supporter

Not to worry.  The best thing is that you realized you had made a mistake and you're doing what you can to fix it.  

"You did what you knew how to do.  And when you knew better, you did better."  --Maya Angelou

by PuppyDogMom 2008-03-24 09:15AM | 0 recs
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This one is for Walrus

I want my vote back, too.

Here's the video. Obama's Square Peg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqUVSDEwN gw

by supero 2008-03-24 11:17AM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama
To all the ignorant Obama supporters on this diary harassing its author, read and comprehend this: (assuming you can do both).
http://www.slate.com/id/2187277
by pm317 2008-03-24 11:23AM | 0 recs
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Re: Thank you. :)

I know it took a lot to post that, and I'm extremely touched.  It was easy for many people to get caught up in the Obama thing, when the media was not doing its job (not like they are much now.)  

You didn't single-handedly toss the Country into turmoil, but your new-found enlightenment can definitely help bring others around.  

:)

by Catriley sez 2008-03-24 11:38AM | 0 recs
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Start a blog for recovering Obama supporters?

Thanks for having the courage to say it out loud. Obama is a clever deceiver (or deluded himself) and a lot of people fell for it.

Something you could do to help now, is tell your Superdelegates and others what you've just told us.

These big blog 'diary' sites may not be the best place. Here you're caught in the middle between both choirs.

Making a blog of your own at Blogspot or some such place might be good, where other recovering or doubting Obama supporters could find support among themselves.

by 1950democrat 2008-03-24 11:42AM | 0 recs
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Re: PS to The Walrus.

It must be really eye-opening to see how you're being treated by the Obama supporters now that you're not one of them.  They turn on you in a blink of an eye if you no longer agree with them.  

That should be a wake up call to every reasonable OBama supporter.. as to the nature of his support. And it's pretty scary.  You'd think that someone would say 'hey, you're entitled to your beliefs', but instead you're being trashed.  Don't let the turkeys get you down, as they say on those silly greeting cards in the drug stores.

by Catriley sez 2008-03-24 11:55AM | 0 recs
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Well, better late than never. Thanks!

A lot of people took to Obama because he was new and different and they had a lot of bad feelings (mostly obtained second hand) about Hillary.  But, we're getting the sense of a lot of buyer's remorse now.  I think there are too many primaries in January and February and not enough in March, April, and May.  People need a little time to observe the candidates over the course of time under various circumstances (good and bad).  Obama had a huge media bubble in January and February and it was bound to break sooner or later.

by lombard 2008-03-24 12:30PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

HOLY CRAP

How does a diary with so little in it go to the rec list?

Oh wait. Pro-HRC/Anti-Obama +  MyDD = REC!!

I forgot. Carry On.

by Darknesse 2008-03-24 12:37PM | 0 recs
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Walrus, read what progressive economist
NYT columnist Krugman has to say about Obama's health and economic proposals.  He says they are far right to the point of being republican, and that they will never go through.
Obama is a product in a slick package.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/opinio n/04krugman.html
by internetstar 2008-03-24 12:40PM | 0 recs
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Re: an apology from an Obama voter

HAHA - This has to be the most pathetic diary I have read on this site (and that's saying something).  Are you kidding me?  I mean seriously, come on, this couldn't have been scripted any better at hillary.com...

I do have to thank you since I haven't laughed out loud at something this unintentionally humorous in a while.  So thank dear diarist, from whichever Hillary For President campaign office you are writing from...oh wait, Hillary doesn't believe in a ground game...

For real though, HRC fans, you really REALLY believe that this was written by someone that voted for Obama and now has "buyer's remorse"?  If you honestly do, then it would completely explain the belief you have for her coming back in the end and winning this thing - it means you're gullible and completely out of touch with reality.  For the rest of the people that are looking at this as the joke that it is, bask in its glory.  You don't come across a gem like this that often...

by Rockville Liberal 2008-03-24 01:15PM | 0 recs
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Buyer's remorse
Yes--I am running into them all the time now!
by The Smoldering Crone 2008-03-24 02:39PM | 0 recs
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Why not

I have buyers remorse, too.

I am a county delegate for Obama this weekend.

It happens.  I went back and started searching for race baiting and found the Obama camp started it.  It was like the dollar bill on the string routine.  They tossed that dollar on the sidewalk and when Clinton went for it, pulled it back and called the cops.  I expect some lies from politicians and some promises of convenience, like the drivers license for illegals that we never heard about again when it did not work in California.  But I am truly concerned that he was was only fronted to split the Clinton base.  

I think of all the years we could have with him in the senate and leading the fight for 15-20 years instead of 4 or 8 if he's lucky.  He is so young.

I worry.  Other people do, too, I bet.

by crazyshirley2100 2008-03-24 02:50PM | 0 recs
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Re: an apology from an Obama voter

Hey, the Walrus, I commend you for the courage to post such a diary!  I don't honestly feel an apology is needed, since you were one of many done what I feel was a disservice and an injustice by the media in only scrutinizing the Clintons and not the Obamas until such time as it was made abundantly clear to them that they were doing so.  IF the journalists had been doing their jobs, many voters would have had more facts and information on which to decide their votes.  Still, I think you make a great gesture by acknowledging your being misled--after all, an ability to change one's mind based on new evidence is a sign of thoughtful judgment!  Stubbornness and refusal to change one's mind has been the downfall of many otherwise worthy people.   Cheers to you!

by ChargedFan 2008-03-24 01:23PM | 0 recs
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No aplogy here

I voted for Barack Obama on Feb 5th. It was the right vote for me then and I feel exactly the same today. He is a man of courage and conviction, who does not back off away from his positions just because the media complains (his Pakistan stance). I just listened to his interview on a radio station in Philadelphia on the Michael Smerconish show and he still has the same position regardless of what the media says.

That is the candidate for me and I will wear it proudly.

by commoncents 2008-03-24 01:44PM | 0 recs
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I can relate.

I voted for Barack in the VA primary.  I also regret my vote.  At the time, I was very caught up on the Obama brand name.  The marketing had me.  I knew he was underqualified, inexperienced and uncertain.  But, I thought, if he was the real thing.. if he was really about "new politics", then I would support him.

But then came the NAFTA debate.  As strongly as I supported him, and as much as I was taught that Hillary was negative, I couldn't deny what I was seeing: Barack Obama playing old politics, and straight-up lying to the American people.  Then I saw him lie about Rezko.. twice.

And I thought to myself, I really want to support this man because he says all the right things, but what's going on here?  So I decided that I had not been independent enough in my judgement, and that I would re-evaluate each candidate from scratch.

I began by actually reading the plans on their websites, starting with healthcare.  And I was amazed.  I doubt many Obama supporters have actually gone through this exercise.  Because when you do, you'll be struck by how shallow the Obama plan is.  It looks as though it were written by a schoolkid who, not knowing the answer to an essay question, was trying to read over his classmate's shoulder.  There's no substance, no serious, third-party financial research, no explanation of how it will be paid, nothing at all.  And even some of the basic concepts are misunderstood and misconstrued.

Oh, but it was written in a nice font.  It was formatted better.

This went on and on, and always it was the same thing for me.  I found myself feeling ashamed for having been hoodwinked by a man who spoke so well but said very little.

by bobbank 2008-03-24 01:57PM | 0 recs
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Re: I can relate.

Here is the link so people can read the plan for themselves.  

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/He althCareFullPlan.pdf

by Rockville Liberal 2008-03-24 02:06PM | 0 recs
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Re: I can relate.

And when you are done reading that, you can compare it with this one:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/he althcareplan/americanhealthchoicesplan.p df

You'll note that, while the fonts are not as pretty, it does actually explain how it will be paid for, in specific quantitative terms.  It also anticipates several of the Republican roadblocks, as well as industry obstacles, with its "shared responsibilty" approach.

You should also take a look at this:
http://www.nber.org/papers/w13758

I can save you $5 and tell you what the study concludes:

1. A plan without mandated coverage will reach about 23,000,000 of the currently uninsured, at a cost of $102 billion.

2. A plan with mandated coverage will reach about 45,000,000 of the currently uninsured, at a cost of $124 billion.

So, under Barack Obama's plan, we reach about half of the people we want, and it costs $4400 per person.
Under Hillary's plan, we reach nearly all of them, and it costs $2700.

That's analysis conducted by an independent third party.  And like ever serious study that has been made about the two plans, it reaches the same conclusion: one of these people actually did their homework and gave us a workable plan.

Don't take my word for it.

Read the two plans.  Do some independent research.  Learn the facts.

by bobbank 2008-03-24 03:38PM | 0 recs
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I'll play

I'll be the Carpenter. Who are the oysters? Obama supporters? Hillary supporters? I'm thinking both are. Clever. I like mine on the half shell.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-24 02:04PM | 0 recs
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Well Walrus

Are you full yet?

by grlpatriot 2008-03-24 05:19PM | 0 recs
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Re: Here is his healthcare plan

read it for yourselves...

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/He althCareFullPlan.pdf

by Rockville Liberal 2008-03-24 02:08PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Dear Walrus,

Your apology was accepted.  But I don't really blame you at all.  I blame the media for their spinning and failing to report the truth about Obama.  A friend of mine, Sudhakm, also came to his senses.  This is what he wrote.

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I knew a LOT of what is good about Hillary but I was hoodwinked by Barack.. BECAUSE I ASSUMED HE HAD HIS GOODS... and I ASSUMED GOODNESS that his words pronounced.

It took things like Rezko, Auchi, Ayers, Wright and all this type of things for me to get down from my Kool-Aid high.
Been there... and it is a very sorry state. It drained me for
more than a week... and luckily for me I had a well-timed vacation that gave me some rest and some perspective.

I visited www.thehillaryiknow.com and it was an eye opener.

Let me post one here that shows what we have missed when we have been on the Kool-Aid high...

My point above is that those on Kool-Aid high dont come off until they realize there is reason to come off. THINKING IS NEEDED.

The biggest contribution you can make to informed democracy is to support Hillary. Now, that is NOT a slogan. I mean every word in that statement.
============

Now he took it upon himself to campaign for Hillary.   You can do the same.

by JoeySky18 2008-03-24 02:28PM | 0 recs
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an apology from an Obama voter
That's what I like. A person who thinks and has courage!!!
by The Smoldering Crone 2008-03-24 02:38PM | 0 recs
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Re: To Hillary supporters an apology from an Obama

Walrus,
I admire you.  You have courage to speak out, and a model for others who now understand that Obama is not the person portrayed by the MSM media and his PR people.

You are not alone.  Several of my friends have removed their lawn signs and feel betrayed.  The most unfortunate aspect is how they are being treated by the Obama supporters who they thought where once their friends.

We all need to stick to the issues and not get personal.  Thank you for posting your thoughts.  

by Athena2 2008-03-24 03:33PM | 0 recs
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A recovery room for doubting Obama people

Walrus and others, thank you again for your courage and perception. A friend has set up a forum where people in various stages of doubt about Obama can safely meet, out of the crossfire. It's at http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/23/2312 21/578#171

She plans to moderate it by promptly removing non-supportive posts.

by 1950democrat 2008-03-26 04:59PM | 0 recs

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