Why I've Been Writing about Sens. Clinton and Obama

PREFACE: Former ambassador Joseph Wilson has posted his commentary, "The Real Hillary I Know -- and the Unreal Obama," at No Quarter.  It's powerful testimony, and full of examples from the foreign policy expert.

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    I know some of you have been unhappy with my posts of late -- and one of the dearest regulars over at No Quarter blog (it's Larry Johnson's blog, but he asked me a couple years ago to post there) telephoned me about it last night. I care very much what you think. You deserve a short explanation: I'm scared to death the Democrats are going to nominate a smart young guy because he's a "symbol" -- who isn't vetted sufficiently, doesn't have enough experience (yet), and doesn't get nearly the press scrutiny that Sen. Clinton gets. Joe Conason writes vividly about the scrutiny.  And the WaPo's Howie Kurtz cites examples galore in "For Clinton, A Matter of Fair Media," and it's a must-read in full:

"She's just held to a different standard in every respect," says Mark Halperin, Time's editor at large. "The press rooted for Obama to go negative, and when he did he was applauded. When she does it, it's treated as this huge violation of propriety."

Then there's that Barack Obama is Karl Rove's dream candidate. To beat. Radio show host Taylor Marsh analyzed this brilliantly in "Why are Karl Rove and the Neocons Endorsing Barack Obama?." Taylor Marsh, nobody's fool, gives example after example -- all must-reads -- of why "in Republican back rooms everywhere, the wolves see a lamb coming to slaughter and they're licking their chops."

Then there's Steve Clemon's Washington Note post this morning, "Times of London on Obama's Europe Void" ...

Steve Clemons, a serious foreign policy expert, was quoted in the UK's Times on Obama's failure to hold any hearings as chairman of the Subcommittee on European Affairs -- and his post today explains why that's cause for concern. (I'm also curious what Gen. Wes Clark thinks about no attention paid to NATO, under Obama's purview.) Clemons is disturbed that his Obama-gaga friends claim Obama's instincts make up for experience. But Steve, who knows the John Bolton saga like no one else, points out the difference in how Sens. Obama and Clinton handled his U.N. nomination.

Clemons closes with this kicker: "It still bothers me that Mike Huckabee has been to Europe and Obama hasn't."

It's flabbergasting: Not only has Obama never been to Europe, but in his two years as chair of the Senate's Foreign Relations' subcommittee on European Affairs, he's never visited the continent he's in charge of.

Taylor Marsh has more great insights and observations:

  • "The Matthews-Schultz Clinton Tantrum":  

    Matthews' message: Ignore the legislative record of the "junior senator from Illinois." It is not relevant. What is important to him is that Hillary is a Clinton. That this woman must be stopped. Who has the best record on the issues and can beat back the Republican machine doesn't matter to Matthews at all. Remember his insulting interview with John Edwards recently? But today he found a buddy in Ed Schultz. Air America's Mark Green was the odd man out, as Matthews and Schultz went at Clinton, no doubt inspired by the lack of access and attention Clinton has given these men. If I had a choice I'd choose Keith Olbermann, too. Wouldn't you? [...]

    But still the double standard remains for Clinton coverage, especially on Chris Matthews' "Hardball," ...

    No one watches "Hardball" anymore. It's been one of the disappointments in this primary season for me that progressives couldn't have banded together to take Matthews down. But because he was bashing Hillary many didn't seem to care. But Matthews' desperation for relevancy, especially in the face of Keith Olbermann's brilliance and ratings power, seems all the more pathetic given the stakes. If Mr. Matthews understood the urgency of vetting the Democratic candidate, especially his legislative record, or really cared what candidate Democrats serve up against the Republicans he would do his homework before spouting off. But he doesn't care about Democrats, or that he's trying to destroy the first viable female candidate in U.S. history. [...]

    A lot has been written about Bill Clinton's rocky relationship with the military during his presidency. However, you will not hear that from the military when it comes to Hillary Clinton. Simply put, she gets it. I've heard many say just that, including Wesley Clark and Joe Sestak, among others, most of which is based on her tireless efforts for our soldiers and veterans. I don't doubt for a second that Mr. Obama supports our veterans and troops, but the record on action is worrisome, especially as this all adds up. ... Read all.

  • "Obama's 'Present' Vote Ignored Dangers of Sex Shops Near Schools":

    I'm getting quite a lot of heat these days for my posts on Mr. Obama. Frankly, I don't care because when a man running for office hasn't been vetted by the media or our own party, it's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. I talked about the "live birth abortion" and Obama's "present" vote, over which no doubt the wingnuts are salivating. For some reason, people seem to think that Mr. Obama's legislative career doesn't matter; that he deserves a pass on it. Do you think Republicans will give him a pass? There are a lot of Obama fans that just don't seem to get how this works. Ask John Edwards, he knows. Hillary's been through this for fifteen years. It's going to be a meat grinder next year, no matter who our nominee is, but when you serve up beauties with "present" votes it makes it an even bigger target.

    Besides, Obama is continually talking about Clinton being a "triangulator," as do many of the Hillary haters. People talking about her calculations. I don't agree with all of her votes, especially on some foreign policy matters, particularly her Iraq war vote, but also Kyl-Lieberman. But when she's pushed she votes and puts herself on the line. She never votes "present" when it matters. When pushed at YearlyKos on lobbyists she could have pandered. She didn't. She also took the heat, including boos. She didn't back down over Kyl-Lieberman either, even though it cost her in grumbling. It's what she believes, with Wesley Clark and Joseph Wilson backing her. Larry Johnson told me on the radio the argument was a silly one.

    Obama got a pass when going after her on Kyl-Lieberman, even though he voted for similar legislation earlier in the year, but more importantly, skipped the vote that would have put him on the record. He also has the exact same votes as Clinton on Iraq, and when Senators Kerry and Feingold offered legislation on the floor to redeploy, Mr. Obama made a speech against it. Not to mention that he never held a hearing on his own foreign relations subcommittee. He also skipped the MoveOn.org vote too. How convenient it is just not to show up and be counted. ... Read all.

Taylor Marsh adds, "The piece in the New York Times today has many troubling moments in it highlighting Obama's legislative record, which the press is finally, at long last, after months and months and months getting to, but the closer is a shocker":

Mr. Obama was also the sole present vote on a bill that easily passed the Senate that would require teaching respect for others in schools. He also voted present on a measure to prohibit sex-related shops from opening near schools or places of worship. It passed the Senate.

In both of those cases, his campaign said, he was trying to avoid mandates on local authorities.

In my book, you vote yea or nay.  Voting "present" is a cop-out.  An Obama supporter defended Obama's "present" votes on live-birth abortion by telling me that that was the strategy the Planned Parenthood laid out.  Well, okay. But that tells me that Obama took his marching orders from a lobbying group, instead of doing what good common sense would have told him would appear, for the rest of his life, like an attempt to avoid a tough decision. He's just not ready for prime-time, or for the brutality of a general election race.  

I'll take my lumps for these posts. But please know -- please know -- that in my heart and mind I am terribly worried about the besotted Democrats who are projecting their dreams onto Obama who's not ready -- just yet -- to be president, or to survive a general election race against the extremely effective GOP attack machine.

And here's wishing you and all of yours the very best, and safest, holidays ... I remain your friend, Susan

Tags: Barack Obama, Foreign Relations, Hillary Clinton, John Bolton, joseph wilson, Karl Rove, Steve Clemons, Subcommittee on European Affairs, Taylor Marsh, Times of London (all tags)

Comments

37 Comments

Re: Why I've Been Writing

Your comments are very welcome.  I'll be checking in and out here because I'm also working on some other projects, and I need to run over to the pharmacy.  

by susanhu 2007-12-21 10:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Why I've Been Writing

Are any of you supporters of Sen. Clinton also clever with Photoshop?

If so, please e-mail me asap at susanunpc at gmail dot com

THANKS!

by susanhu 2007-12-21 03:30PM | 0 recs
democrats have always sucked...

at understand the general electorate.  2008 is no different.  in the end, i just don't think democrats want to win.  it's just not that important...

by bored now 2007-12-21 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: democrats have always sucked...

This is exactly why the blogosphere should have zero influence on our public discourse.

by Bode 2007-12-21 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: democrats have always sucked...

Are you going to skip participating in the primary process now that you've embraced the idea that you suck at picking candidates?

by Carl Nyberg 2007-12-21 11:42AM | 0 recs
Re: democrats have always sucked...

Assuming someone accepts the analysis that Dems suck at figuring what the electorate wants, how should one act on this info?

by Carl Nyberg 2007-12-21 11:41AM | 0 recs
vote your conscience...

vote your heart, vote your interests.  my personal observations is that electing a candidate who excites the base draws out more committed, more knowledgeable volunteers who will go to great lengths and do great things to elect their candidate.  democrats don't appear to be disciplined enough to work hard for just any candidate...

by bored now 2007-12-23 06:47AM | 0 recs
Keep giving them hell susanhu!

Susan, I don't know who the hell has been giving you flack about your posts, but your diaries are excellent. Some of the best around. I enjoy both you and masslib1's diaries. You speak the truth and very eloqently I might add. Your diaries are very informative and I always learn something that I didn't know prior to reading them. Continue giving them hell. Again, this is another fabulous diary and I learned something. Hell, I wish Jerome would add you on full time to his staff. Prior to be getting banned from KOS I loved your diaries there as well.

by lonnette33 2007-12-21 10:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Keep giving them hell susanhu!

THANK YOU!  Wow!

I loved your diary last night about the lobbyists, and would like to use that soon.  But I wanted to ask your permission.  Can you e-mail me at susanunpc at gmail dot com ?  Thank you so much.

You got banned at Daily Kos? Oh lord. I fear I'm on the way ... they keep troll-rating any comment I make that isn't what they want to hear about Obama.  It's very disheartening to see the vitriol there.  Back in 2005, there was a more refined, more thoughtful atmosphere.  

I told Larry that MyDD is becoming my oasis, and he immediately asked me to add MyDD to our blogroll, which I did. Not everyone here agrees -- there are posts here for ALL the candidates, which is great -- but there are far fewer below-the-belt attacks.  In fact, such attacks are rare here. It's a mature atmosphere.

by susanhu 2007-12-21 11:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Keep giving them hell susanhu!

Absolutely, I will email you tonight.

by lonnette33 2007-12-21 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Keep giving them hell susanhu!

I saw the responses at Kos. I started out here and back here I seem to be. People there know you and yet they give you grief about your opinion? I stayed away for a while and then came back and the whole site seems to have been hijacked by a bunch of knee jerk obama supporters. I got troll rated for criticizing Obama's health plan. The Obama supporter didn't even know what was in the health plan so in the end I won the argument but to what point? I don't care about "winning the argument", I only care about winning the election. I saw some posters stating that Obama would win the south. Wow, this made me think what planet are they living on? His general election numbers won't even match Kerry's down here.

I've decided that they are single issue anti-war voters and since Obama "was against the war from the start" then his other stances don't matter.

I debated one poster on something Taylor Marsh said. Well, the poster started attacking Taylor Marsh. I said "Well, what's wrong with the substance of her criticism?". Crickets chirping on that one.

Sorry to unload on you but sometimes I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall. At least the Obama supporters here are generally reasonable.

by Ga6thDem 2007-12-21 01:21PM | 0 recs
one lump or two, sue hu?

Taylor Marsh may be nobody's fool but she's somebody's tool.

Other than relentless (and strained) partisan cherry-picking to attack Obama instead of making the case for Clinton, you're main problem is that you do not define what "experience" you consider important.  It looks like the experience that you value is fighting Republicans with the same old unproductive toxic and dirty politics.  OK, you win there.  

Like Durbin said a year ago, what is Obama going to know in eight years that he doesn't already know?  You and The Big Dog both know that Obama is ready and that his only real negative is that he is standing in the way of Hillary.

I want to see a woman President as much as you, but sorry, that's not enough - especially when we have a better choice.

by mboehm 2007-12-21 11:21AM | 0 recs
Durbin said What?

What a ridiculous question.  We will all know more in 8 years than we know now.  Obama needs more time to bake.

You may think he is a better candidate, but I think Clinton makes him look like bush league.  I don't trust him, I don't like him and I think he is a naive rookie.  We can do better, much better.
Clinton is experienced, very smart and hard working and she is a pragmatic progressive.  She doesn't attempt to fool anyone about how she will or won't vote in the future.  She doesn't vote present.  She says and does what she thinks best and she takes the knocks for it.
People are NOT voting for her just because she is a woman.  That part is just gravy.

by MollieBradford 2007-12-21 12:02PM | 0 recs
Re: one lump or two, sue hu?

"same old toxic politics" is what we have in the country right now. Obama will roll over and be killed by these people because he thinks he can be friends with them. He's naive. He doesn't realize what he's dealing with because he's never run a tough election. Do you think the GOP is going to run someone as inept and Alan Keyes against him?

Obama doesn't realize that the neocons have to be destroyed. We have an opportunity to do that and Obama wants to legitimize their agenda. Why? Obama's campaign is one that you run when you have a popular President with a popular agenda, not one you run when they are extremely unpopular.

by Ga6thDem 2007-12-21 01:27PM | 0 recs
if electability is #1 for you support Edwards

I find these anxieties about Obama's electability to sound like racism.

But what makes the claims about Obama being unelectable totally unbelievable is that they are being pushed by Hillary Rodham Clinton's camp.

Excuse me, but Hillary Rodham Clinton's negatives are far more of a problem than Obama's. HRC both energizes the GOP base and alienates a big chunk of the activists that helped Dems win in 2006.

If you're anxious about Obama being a flawed candidate it seems like you should be in the Edwards camp or Richardson camp.

But, these HRC supporters come across as mean, shrill and sometimes bitter.

by Carl Nyberg 2007-12-21 11:22AM | 0 recs
snore

Anti-Clinton talking point #402, rinse repeat.

by MollieBradford 2007-12-21 12:03PM | 0 recs
Re: if electability is #1 for you support Edwards

Carl, I remember you well from Daily Kos for your astute diaries and comments.  (I post as Susanhu there.)

If it were about racism, I'd be furious.  It has only to do with his short two years in the Senate, his lack of concentration on his Senate duties and chairmanships, and the over-exuberance his supporters feel because they're projecting their hopes onto a candidate who's comparably a blank slate.

I could say I find your anxieties about Sen. Clinton to be about sexism.  But that would never be fair.  (However, sexism is alive and well these days -- and I'm close enough to Sen. Clinton's age to KNOW ALL about sexism.  It's certainly true that older while males, particularly, have trouble with seeing a woman in the White House.

That's why the United States ranks 67th among the world's countries in the number of women it has in elected office.  It ranks down between Zimbabwe and Turkmanistan.  Not good.

We women have come a long way in the United States since I was a young woman -- and under a constant barrage of sexism -- but we have a very long way to go.

by susanhu 2007-12-21 12:06PM | 0 recs
Re: if electability is #1 for you support Edwards

The GOP hasn't gone to work on Obama yet. Believe me, they have a whole narrative set up and ready to go. And it's not pretty.

by Ga6thDem 2007-12-21 01:28PM | 0 recs
Re: if electability is #1 for you support Edwards

What is this narrative?

by Carl Nyberg 2007-12-22 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: if electability is #1 for you support Edwards

Do you really want me to post it on a public blog? Go to snopes.com and do a search on Barack Obama and that will give you some idea.

by Ga6thDem 2007-12-22 11:21AM | 0 recs
Re: if electability is #1 for you support Edwards

imho any one who uses the word "shrill' is a sexist jerk.

bitter?  us? after fools like you use words like that?

mean? us? after fools like you, and Obamas campaign itself uses repeated right wing attacks -lke "sold out the lincoln bedroom" - now over a decade  old - to attack a dem that unions representing 6 million unionists like me support?

what would make you think we were mad at people like you?

by Seymour Glass 2007-12-21 01:30PM | 0 recs
Thank you

A great diary. Every Democrat needs to read Joe Wilson's latest piece. It's very powerful.

by Christopher Lib 2007-12-21 11:22AM | 0 recs
what's a Black man have to do to prove

himself to these Democrats who claim that even if he wins the nomination he won't be elected?

by Carl Nyberg 2007-12-21 11:23AM | 0 recs
Re: what's a Black man have to do to prove

Racism is a challenge for Obama's candidacy, as is sexism for Clinton's. I think those challenges are pretty much a wash in the general election, they both have demonstrated an ability to succeed despite those challenges.

The current criticism of Obama is that he has not had to face a negative campaign, and that he has escaped the kind of critical coverage top tier candidates usually receive. There is no racial subtext to that charge, nor is pointing out weak points from his autobiography necessarily a racial attack.

The only way he, or Clinton for that matter, can prove that they are electable to Democrats who think a black man or a woman cannot win the general election is to win the general election.

by souvarine 2007-12-21 03:24PM | 0 recs
Obama's dearth of FP experience

First, I disagree with the premise that Obama lacks experience.

Obama's experience living in foreign countries among normal people is more useful than the experiences of Biden and HRC. Being powerful and schmoozing with the powerful just isn't terribly useful experience on foreign policy.

But I'd like people who but into the "dearth of foreign policy experience" reasoning to explain what they mean.

Assume President Obama is confronted with a foreign policy challenge. How will his experience be a handicap?

In my think Obama has displayed better judgment on foreign policy questions than have a number of the other candidates, including the favorite candidate of this diarist.

Would you rather have judgment or experience?

Also, let's review the foreign policy experience of modern presidents.

From most to least
Eisenhower
Bush, 41
LBJ
Nixon
FDR
JFK
Ford
Clinton
Truman
Bush, 43
Carter
Reagan

I don't see any clear correlation between experience and making good judgment calls on policy.

by Carl Nyberg 2007-12-21 11:39AM | 0 recs
a reason to bring back poll testing

"Obama's experience living in foreign countries among normal people is more useful than the experiences of Biden and HRC."

by Seymour Glass 2007-12-21 01:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Why I've Been Writing about Sens. Clinton and

Yeah, Obama has never been to Europe... except for eastern Europe and western Europe.  But other than that you're real fuckin' factual.

Joe Wilson is, like Hillary, a public figure who wouldn't be remotely famous if not for his spouse.  He apparently doesn't understand Obama very well, because he is "mystified" by the support of more prominent ex-Clinton officials for Obama.  It's not a mystery.  Obama's just better.  And fealty to the Clintons shouldn't be the only thing that matters in this party.

Wilson also lies and says Obama shows contempt for on-the-ground experience.  Based on who Obama surrounds himself with, the opposite is true.  However, Obama recognizes a truth Joe Wilson does not: that all the experience in the world does no good without the judgment to make use of it.  Hillary Clinton showed her judgment when she voted for the Iraq war and Kyl-Lieberman, among other blunders.  Her experience makes her bad decisions that much less forgivable.

Wilson can't be taken seriously here.  Just like Bill, he's erecting numerous straw-men and making logically invalid arguments I'm sure he's smart enough to recognize as such.  He's wrong on Obama and he knows it, but he's still shilling for Hillary out of loyalty, probably to position himself for a cushy position.  

by Setec 2007-12-21 11:42AM | 0 recs
I ar in yur Yurope vizitin your diplomatz

It's laughable that Obama is getting attacked for not visiting Europe. Obama made a high profile trip with Sen. Lugar dealing with arms control and made stops in the Ukraine and Russia. He was scheduled to meet with Tony Blair in London on the way back travel problems in Perm, Russia delayed their trip.

I guess it's better to be knocking back chocolates in Geneva and Brussels instead of actually visiting the countries where there is conflict.

http://obama.senate.gov/press/050823-oba ma_to_visit/

by joejoejoe 2007-12-21 12:09PM | 0 recs
Re: I ar in yur Yurope vizitin your diplomatz

I think when someone says "Europe" they mean western Europe not the former eastern bloc nations. And the time in London was passing through the airport so I wouldn't count that.

by Ga6thDem 2007-12-21 01:32PM | 0 recs
why do Obama cultists insult anyone

attack and insult anyone that doesnt support their hero?

"Joe Wilson is, like Hillary, a public figure who wouldn't be remotely famous if not for his spouse."

what a totally asinine thing to say pal.

by Seymour Glass 2007-12-21 01:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Why I've Been Writing about Sens. Clinton and

I heard of -- and saw Joe Wilson on TV -- 15 YEARS before I ever heard of his wife.

That was when he was the acting ambassador in Iraq (1991) and stood up to Saddam Hussein -- with extreme bravery -- and rescued many hostages.

by susanhu 2007-12-21 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Why I've Been Writing about Sens. Clinton and

smart and wise diary.

please go r4ad todays www.dailyhowlerr.com which is about the same troubles.

I met with the howler today for xmas cocktails and we just shook our heads in sorrow over our wassail about how some dems are now happy with matthews work - because that nutcase is working to destroy a dem candidate that they oppose.

8 years after his war on Gore and still many  "progs" dont understand how bad this man is to dem interests and chances.

but hey - Matthews called Hillary a "baby killer" last night - so hes their frigging liberal hero!

Can we get any dumber?
You get it, I get it, Bob gets it....why dont they?

by Seymour Glass 2007-12-21 01:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Why I've Been Writing about Sens. Clinton and

Maybe in your book you vote yea or nay, voting "present" is a cop-out, but not in the book which people read who are actually legislators.  I fear the government you would endorse which does not know the difference between which issues are that of the domain of Local City Ordinances and what is a State issue and what is a Federal one.  You are willing to erode our civil liberties and side with Republicans if it suits you narrow political agenda.  You don't support Planned Parenthood in their campaign to stop the erosion of Row v. Wade just to artificially prop up your interests in a primary.  It is despicable.

by Piuma 2007-12-21 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Why I've Been Writing

God help us and the Democratic Party if Barack Obama is the nominee.  The flaws in this candidate are unfathomable and the media wants him SO badly so they can tear him into pieces in the general election.

What a travesty for our party.

by AUD 2007-12-21 02:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Why I've Been Writing about Sens. Clinton and

Mrs. Clinton claims to be the one who can take on the Republicans.  She got mild attacks by Obama and Edwards, who did it in person, not by some chicken-shit surrogate smear tactics, and how did Mrs. Clinton respond?

Some staffers passed hate-filled e-mail smears, got caught, and resigned.

Billy Sheehan mouths off a smear about drugs to play on black inner city stereotyping, gets called out on it, resigns and in the process hurts his wife's chances, and the Democrats, in the Senate.

Bob Kerrey continues the smears based on lies and fear of Muslims, gets called out on it, and has to apologize.

One of the largest Unions in the country sends out a flyer contradicting their own stance on Health Care attacking Obama and disguises it as coming from Edwards. They get caught and now there's an internal battle within the Union.

And this is what we are supposed to support because she knows how to take on the Republicans?  Mrs. Clinton in attack mode is an anemic joke at best, and at worst does not give a damn who she takes down on her quest for power.

by Piuma 2007-12-21 02:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Why I've Been Writing about Sens. Clinton and

very good diary.

i know a diary is not meant to really change a vote or an opinion, but I love both Obama and Clinton but have counted myself in the Obama camp. But, after having leaned toward Obama, I think your argument has sealed my drift toward Hilllary.

so..one more vote for Hillary -- some tens of millions to go.

by CalDem 2007-12-21 03:04PM | 0 recs
Is Russia NOT in Europe anymore?

Just asking, because I could have sworn that he went to Russia about rogue Nukes with Senator Lugar. Am I wrong?

And Taylor Marsh can just go somewhere.

by rikyrah 2007-12-21 05:54PM | 0 recs

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