Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama Denial Timeline]

Update [2008-3-3 9:0:24 by susanhu]: At the conclusion, there's an excellent, fully sourced timeline of Obama's denials of this meeting, now obliterated by the emergence of the Canadian diplomats' memorandum distributed widely to Canadian officials -- and now in the hands not only of the A.P. but CNN's John Roberts, he just reported.

"Obama, you are busted."

That was Larry Johnson's response tonight when I showed him the New York Times/A.P. story just published that confirms what the Obama camp has scurried away from:  That Obama economic adviser Austan Goolsbee contacted officials with the Canadian consulate in Chicago and assured them that they should not worry about Obama's remarks about NAFTA.  

Goolsbee, reported national Canadian media giant CTV.ca, "said that when Senator Obama talks about opting out of the free trade deal, the Canadian government shouldn't worry. The operative said it was just campaign rhetoric."

The A.P. has obtained the actual memorandum produced by the Canadian consulate as a record of its meeting.  (How that works, and the regular preparation of a memorandum to record such meetings, is explained by Larry Johnson below, and is a must-read to understand how diplomatic meetings are conducted.)  That Canadian consulate-prepared memorandum, which Goolsbee denies is accurate, states:

"Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook, Goolsbee candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign. He cautioned that this messaging should not be taken out of context and should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans.'' [...]

The memo obtained by the AP was widely distributed within the Canadian government. It is more than 1,300 words and covers many topics that DeMora said were discussed in the Feb. 8 ''introductory meeting'' between himself, Goolsbee and the consul general in Chicago, Georges Rioux.

Goolsbee ''was frank in saying that the primary campaign has been necessarily domestically focused, particularly in the Midwest, and that much of the rhetoric that may be perceived to be protectionist is more reflective of political maneuvering than policy,'' the memo's introduction said. ''On NAFTA, Goolsbee suggested that Obama is less about fundamentally changing the agreement and more in favour of strengthening/clarifying language on labour mobility and environment and trying to establish these as more `core' principles of the agreement.''

Here is Larry Johnson -- he was Deputy Director of Counterterrorism for the U.S. State Department -- on how such meetings take place and are recorded:

Obviously the Obama advisors don't understand a thing about foreign relations.  They assume that any comment with a member of a diplomatic representative of a foreign government is somehow not noteworthy.  To reiterate, a consulate (i.e., a place that issues visas and handles immigration issues for a government, in this case Canada) is a part of the Canadian Embassy.  The Consul General is not the Ambassador.  However, he or she would be considered number three in the Embassy pecking order (he or she is subordinate to the Ambassador and the Deputy Chief of Mission).

In meetings like the one with Obama's economic advisor, Goolsbee, the ConGen (shorthand for Consul General) would be accompanied by at least one note taker.  The junior diplomat who wrote up the results of the meeting had to submit his report to the ConGen, who signed off on the report or cable (A cable is diplomatic speak for an official message sent back to the home government).

And why did the Canadians meet with Goolsbee?  Because of his relationship with Obama.  The Canadians, doing what good diplomats do, wanted to get an idea of what Obama's stance on Nafta is because they are recognizing he could be President.  This is what diplomats do.

The other day, in an update to my February 29, 2008 story, "CTV Reconfirms Obama NAFTA Story," Larry Johnson added:

[I]t is important to help younger readers understand that Goolsbee's conversation with the Counsel General (CONGEN in State Department speak) is a senior Canadian Embassy official.  A Consulate is a place where folks go for a visa or to work on immigration problems.  The Consulate is subordinate to the Embassy in Washington.  Best to think of it as a branch of the Embassy.  Clearly the CTV report confused Embassy with Consulate.  Bottomline is the same-a senior Obama advisor told a representative of the Government of Canada (in this case, the CONGEN) to ignore Obama's rhetoric.

You can read all of our earlier stories on NAFTA-gate by clicking on this search-based link.

Many young Obama supporters never understood that CTV.ca is an internationally respected, first-rate national Canadian news organization that carefully vetted its original story, and issued a reconfirmation.  Now, thanks to the A.P. story, we know that the memorandum "was widely distributed within the Canadian government" and was 1,300 words in length.

Here is the video of one of CTV's television news reports:

Update [2008-3-3 9:0:24 by susanhu]:THE TIMELINE of Obama Campaign Denials of CTV/NAFTA Report:

2/26/08 – CTV reported that a senior member of Obama's campaign called the Canadian embassy within the last month -- saying that when Senator Obama talks about opting out of the free trade deal, the Canadian government shouldn't worry. The operative said it was just campaign rhetoric not to be taken seriously. [CTV, 2/27/08]

2/26/08 – “Late Wednesday, Obama campaign said the staff member’s warning to Wilson sounded implausible, but did not deny that contact had been made. ‘Senator Obama does not make promises he doesn't intend to keep,’ the spokesperson said.” [CTV, 2/27/08]

2/27/08 – “Earlier Thursday, the Obama campaign insisted that no conversations have taken place with any of its senior ranks and representatives of the Canadian government on the NAFTA issue.” [CTV, 2/29/08]

2/27/08 – Goolsbee: Canada's consul general in Chicago contacted him ‘at one point to say ‘hello’ because their office is around the corner.’ [ABC, 2/29/08]

2/27/08 – Goolsbee: “I am not confirming or denying any meetings with anyone,’ Goolsbee told ABC News, directing queries to Bill Burton, Obama's campaign spokesperson.” [ABC News, 2/29/08]

2/27/08 – “ABC News spoke to Goolsbee, Thursday, and who denied calling the Canadian embassy in Washington, or calling Rioux, but would "neither confirm nor deny" whether he had spoke to Rioux about Obama's NAFTA rhetoric.” [ABC News, 2/29/08]

2/27/08 – CTV: “On Thursday night, CTV spoke with Goolsbee, but he refused to say whether he had such a conversation with the Canadian government office in Chicago. He also said he has been told to direct any questions to the campaign headquarters.” [CTV, 2/29/08]

2/27/08 – CTV: “The Obama campaign told CTV late Thursday night that no message was passed to the Canadian government that suggests that Obama does not mean what he says about opting out of NAFTA if it is not renegotiated.” [CTV, 2/29/08]

2/28/08 – Burton: ‘The news reports on Obama's position on NAFTA are inaccurate and in no way represent Senator Obama’s consistent position on trade. When Senator Obama says that he will forcefully act to make NAFTA a better deal for American workers, he means it. Both Canada and Mexico should know that, as president, Barack Obama will do what it takes to create and protect American jobs and strengthen the American economy -- that includes amending NAFTA to include labor and environmental standards. We are currently reaching out to the Canadian embassy to correct this inaccuracy." [TPM, 2/28/08]

2/28/08 – Burton: "It's telling that the Clinton campaign's closing argument is based on a story run on a Canadian television station that's already been debunked by the Canadian Embassy." [ABC, 2/29/08]

2/28/08 – Burton: "Again, this story is not true. There was no one at any level of our campaign, at any point, anywhere, who said or otherwise implied Obama was backing away from his consistent position on trade. The only flip-flopping on NAFTA has come from Sen. Clinton, who talked about how good it was for America until she started running for President," [ABC, 2/29/08]

2/28/08 – Sen. Obama: "The Canadian government put out a statement saying that this was just not true, so I don't know who the sources were." [CTV news, 2/29/08]

2/28/08 - Rice: “The Canadian ambassador issued a statement that was absolutely false. There had been no contact. There had been no discussions on NAFTA. So we take the Canadians at their word…period.” [MSNBC, 2/28/08]

2/29/08: Sen. Obama: "Our office has said the story is not true. It's important for viewers to understand that it was not true." Anchor: "So, completely inaccurate, did not happen, end of discussion." Sen. Obama: "It did not happen." [WKYC TV, 2/29/08]

2/29/08 - Goolsbee: “It is a totally inaccurate story…I did not call these people and I direct you to the press office.” [New York Observer, 2/29/08]

2/29/08 – Burton: ‘This story is not true. There was no one at any level of our campaign, at any point, anywhere, who said or otherwise implied Obama was backing away from his consistent position on trade.’ [Greg Sargent, 2/29/08]

2/29/08 – Plouffe: “The story’s just not true…. No one in our campaign has said or otherwise implied that he would back away from his position on NAFTA.” [The Page, 2/29/08]

2/29/08 – Burton: "There was no one at any level of our campaign, at any point, anywhere, who said or otherwise implied Obama was backing away from his consistent position on trade." [Politico, 2/29/08]

Tags: Austan Goolsbee, bamboozling, Barack Obama, Canadians, CTV.ca, NAFTA (all tags)

Comments

214 Comments

Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Your comments are welcome.

It would have helped the Obama campaign had they admitted, frankly, what they had done in contacting the Canadians.  But all we have seen for days are evasive denials and vague spin.

by susanhu 2008-03-02 09:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

It's always the cover-up...

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 09:31PM | 0 recs
Watch this video!

Video Interview with Obama on Ohio WKYC

I think this was Thursday or Friday, Feb 28 or 29, 2008. Incredible.

Red handed!

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 09:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Watch this video!

You don't know much about the author, Nedra Pickler, do you?  Before I even read the article, when I saw her name, I felt some bile rising up in the back of my throat

by Setrak 2008-03-03 01:20AM | 0 recs
Ah, the ad hominem argument

Is that what the Obama campaign has to resort to at this stage of the story?

It's time for Obama to show some honesty on his NAFTA posturing.

by techfidel 2008-03-03 01:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Ah, the ad hominem argument
Well for one, this isn't exactly a smoking gun.  Read the article in its entirety.
And two, it's Nedra.  Nedra Pickler.  The tumor of the Associated Press, married into the Fox News family, she who stained Dean and Kerry.
by Setrak 2008-03-03 01:33AM | 0 recs
his real weakness revealed

He plays every hand as if it's strong and he never can't play and he can never 'show' his own hand. So it's tragic yet inevitable that these kinds of things catch up with him. If he's our nom, look to more whoppers.  If he runs on HIllary's ticket she'll have her hands full, keeping him in check until he has a chance to learn that it isn't a poker game, and it's not just about winning, it's also about how you win.  

by anna shane 2008-03-03 09:11AM | 0 recs
For the love of Pete, SEDRAK

I just turned on CNN, and John Roberts says he has a copy of the very memo in his own hands.

Roberts said that Obama will have a hard time explaining this one.

Besides all the shuffling evasiveness and non-denial denials, there's that these twits don't know DIPLOMACY 101.  They don't even understand how embassies work.  It's very embarrassing.

by susanhu 2008-03-03 03:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Watch this video!

The memo is the memo is the memo, even if Satan himself is writing the article.

The memo just flat out contradicts Goolsbee's account. He, of course, with zero evidence to back him up, says that it mischaracterized what he said. Somehow, I just doubt that diplomats are going to completely misunderstand the gist of such a message, and broadcast it through the agency. And Goolsbee has every incentive in the world to lie.

And the worst part is how Obama himself got in front of the television camera and denied that there was any truth in the rumor.

This may or may not be in time to do Obama any damage in Ohio or Texas, but McCain is certainly going to be able to make major hay out of the words out of Obama's own mouth on this subject.

by frankly0 2008-03-03 03:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Watch this video!

I totally agree with you about Nedra Pickler.  I think you can basically discount everything she writes -- however, there does appear to be a memo so the story is not Picker's interpretation of events, but the existence of a memo that contradicts the Obama camp's denials.

by dcg2 2008-03-03 05:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Watch this video!

   I hope Texas is getting this. Houston we have a problem !!!!

by gunner 2008-03-03 04:06AM | 0 recs
I hope the superdelegates are watching

this and paying attention. "Houston, we have a problem," indeed!

by Rumarhazzit 2008-03-03 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: I hope the superdelegates are watching

yeah, you better hope the super delegates help your candidate because it's her only hope.  

by gabejack 2008-03-03 07:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Watch this video!

He reminds me so very much of George W. Bush!

by macmcd 2008-03-03 04:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

You've continued to push this story, and it continues to be a nonissue. You see spin, people without an agenda just see some misinterpreted comments that Obama didn't even KNOW about initially, blown into a mountain when they don't amount to a molehill.

Ultimately, so many things about the "conspiracy theory" version of events you're putting forth just make no sense...

1. Why would Obama contact the Canadians in the first place with something that would directly contradict a public stance? They don't get to vote. He can't cost himself votes by not warning them. The more dramatic the anti-NAFTA rhetoric was expected to get, the less likely it is to believe anyone would share anything with them, since it is all the worse when it comes up in the press.

2. Does Canada really need to worry much about this in the first place? They're not exactly dumping mercury in the rivers and putting toddlers to work in labor camps. Any environmental and labor protections are going to hit Mexico much harder.

3. If Goolsbee was sent and they knew it, a full blown denial would make no sense, but that's what they made, and the Canadians (the embassy office) agreed there was no call. Why take that tack at all if you had a very open conversation about it? It's basically too stupid to be a lie.

4. Goolsbee would be a "man to ask" about such things even if he met the Canadians on other business, given his position. It's very easy to see him making some minor statements without checking with the campaign or Obama first. There's no reason to believe it, especially given the timing of the denials - I find it much more believable that the campaign simply didn't know it had come up, probably because the manner in which it was discussed never made Goolsbee think that it would.

Much ado about nothing. The various versions of this story, each of which has been more toned-down in what happened than the last, have been an amusing game of Telephone, but they don't rise to the level of particularly noteworthy, let alone scandalous as you believe.

by mattw 2008-03-02 10:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate
 
JUST WORDS,JUST SPEECHES
by gunner 2008-03-03 12:55AM | 0 recs
I guess words mean something, except

when they don't. And it depends on what the meaning of, "It did not happen," is...

"Houston, we have a problem!"

by Rumarhazzit 2008-03-03 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

This is a simply bizarre response.

Look, the memo says what it says. Are you denying even the existence of the memo, and claiming that it is some kind of fabrication?

What are you possibly arguing here?

by frankly0 2008-03-03 03:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Read it again. The answer makes perfect sense and I agree 100%. Get over this "scandal", because nobody really cares!

by marcotom 2008-03-03 03:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Well I grew up in Michigan.  My family has always worked in manufacturing, including me, the first in my family to ever graduate from college.  I am an electrical engineer.

The "nobody cares" statement is extremely insulting.  My dad sent money to Obama based on his message on NAFTA - believing that Hillary was just in favor of NAFTA as Bill Clinton.

So Obama lies and takes money from a retired guy on a fixed income, and it's based on a lie.  Very nice.

by Dave B 2008-03-03 04:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Reading comprehension clearly wasn't emphasized during your pursuit of that electrical engineering degree.

by shalca 2008-03-03 04:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

That was a pretty mature statement.

You're probably right, most electrical engineers are very poor in reading comprehension.

by Dave B 2008-03-03 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Well the point is that Obama's stance on NAFTA is not contradiced by what a professor who advises his campaign suggested to a Canadian consulate  representative.

Obama said he wants to renogtiate NAFTA to include strong labor protections and environmental safeguards. None of that has changed, nor has it been challenged.

I think thats what was meant by the "reading comprehension" remark, although it didn't have to be stated in such an unpleasant way.

by John in Chicago 2008-03-03 07:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

The voters of ohio care. They now know Obama flat out lies!!

by indydem99 2008-03-03 04:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

You sound soo much like those who say "President Bush prays every day and he is chosen by God."  

All thinking people care if they are being manipulated.  Only those who are propagandized don't care.  Eventually, you, too, will think and will care.

by macmcd 2008-03-03 04:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Why did GW continue to lie about WMD? Why did GW continue to lie about outing Plame?  Why did GW/Cheney continue to lie Iraq reconstituting it's Nukes?

The lie takes over, and utimately they believe they will be able to control the story.

As they all learned...you can never control the story, it will always control you.

I thought words mattered to Obama.  I guess only when he's giving speeches, not when it comes to telling the truth.  He should have stuck with the story is 'inaccurate', instead of the flat denials.  Then he wouldn't have been outed as a liar.

by TxDem08 2008-03-03 03:57AM | 0 recs
Hey, your man lied...outright.

2/29/08: Sen. Obama: "Our office has said the story is not true. It's important for viewers to understand that it was not true." Anchor: "So, completely inaccurate, did not happen, end of discussion." Sen. Obama: "It did not happen." [WKYC TV, 2/29/08]

Don't try and pawn this off on staffers who mislead, etc.  YOUR GUY LIED - about the memo and has been lying about his "change" for NAFTA.

Words do count, you know!

by Shazone 2008-03-03 04:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Canada would, in fact, be hugely affected by changes in NAFTA. Many things are manufactured in Canada and sent to Mexico for assembly, per NAFTA.

We are also a huge trading partner for them. Any change in international trade treaties of course will have an impact on them.

by apolitik 2008-03-03 10:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

   CNN just had the story on.Part of the CHANGE in Washington I suspect.

by gunner 2008-03-03 03:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

I wonder if this will cause any Obama supporters to pause a bit longer next time before automatically dismissing any negative story as a bogus hit job.

by Steve M 2008-03-03 04:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Maybe a few but most will probably just continue to whistle in the DARK.

by macmcd 2008-03-03 04:51AM | 0 recs
Canadian Government has just DENIED

this with a more complete statement, saying they DEEPLY REGRET any inference that Senator Obama is saying one thing in public and another in private.

Looks like it's taken care of Susan, however, there appears to be no end to this false and hackish claim by Clinton Supporters.

by ksh 2008-03-03 09:51AM | 0 recs
Incredible

This blows it all wide open.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 09:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Incredible

I'd like to point out that this also demonstrates the amateurism and lack of preparedness of the Obama team for what they are getting into. If these guys get to the nomination it is terrifying to think how they will bear up under a real opposition right wing media attack operation.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 09:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Incredible

Did any of you even read the NYT story?  This memo confirms that CTV was very wrong.  They got the people wrong, they got the mode of communication wrong, even taking the worst reading of the memo the initial CTV statements are not in the memo.  And, there is no reason to believe the wrost aspects of the memo because theses aspects are actually contradicted by the memo itself.

The memo says: "...more reflective of political maneuvering than policy"

Which is contradicted by the same memo when it says: "'On NAFTA, Goolsbee suggested that Obama is less about fundamentally changing the agreement and more in favour of strengthening/clarifying language on labour mobility and environment and trying to establish these as more `core' principles of the agreement."  Which is exactly what Obama has openly stated.

It is impossible to tell the Canadians "what we state in the campaign is political," at the exact same time you tell the Canadians "our policy is to strengthen NAFTA on labor and environment issues," which is 100% the message openly stated by Obama during the campaign.

There is no problem here.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 05:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate
Figures. But watch the biased MSM try to smother this for another 36-48 hours, just until the polls close Tuesday.
by sricki 2008-03-02 09:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Can you believe that this is what we Democrats are going to hand over to the Republicans for the general election?

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 09:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate
Well, I'm not as worried about Obama as I am about his supporters. Some of these people need to be evaluated by professionals. A frightening number of them honestly seem to think Hillary was implying that Obama REALLY MIGHT BE A MUSLIM, OMG!!!! because she answered the question, "Is Obama a Muslim?" with: "Of course not, there's no basis for that as far as I know. . . . Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time."

And then there are the people who think that allowing the letters "NIG" (which you probably wouldn't notice unless someone mentioned it, and which looked more like "NIC" anyway) to be visible on a pajama shirt was an intentional ploy by the racist Clinton campaign to make race into a huge issue. I mean, you have to worry about some of these people. They're slightly... unbalanced, I guess. Can you imagine the angst they're going to experience when the GOP gets started on Obama? I hope they'll be alright.

(I kind of think they enjoy being upset, though.)

by sricki 2008-03-02 09:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Somethings about the NIG ad do look bad.  I've read a book on subliminal advertising, and it is very common.  Also, these ads are carefully reviewed before release, and the image is steady for three seconds--it's hard to see how they missed it.  Finally, this was a Mark Penn ad, and everyone agrees he's sleazy.

Even so I don't want to believe the HRC campaign is this low, so I'm open to giving them the benefit of the doubt.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

As another young (30), educated (Phd), wine driking (sometimes gin and tonic), latte-sipping (hazlenut, I'm sipping one right now) hillary supporter, I raise my latte to you!

by proudliberaldem 2008-03-03 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate
Ha! How thrilling to meet another of my kind! Got an iced latte over here. I raise my beverage to you as well. Clinton supporters of our ilk are habitually ignored. But we're here, and we're proud.

May your lattes and espressos runneth over, my friend. Now and forever.

by sricki 2008-03-03 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary needs to go

Yup. It is time. The facts are on her side. What does she have to lose.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 10:12PM | 0 recs
Um...

The NYT is about as MS as MSM can get.

by ineedalife 2008-03-03 02:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary needs to go

I never thought I'd feel this way but I want Hillary to go nuclear TODAY!

by macmcd 2008-03-03 04:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary needs to go

EVERYONE needs to start bombing your local news stations with this.  After that start calling e-mailing and faxing the story to all major MSM outlets.

Get going, get it outhere!  Especially those in Ohio.

by TxDem08 2008-03-03 05:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary needs to go

Um, she won't because she is smart enough to read the memo and realize she will get burned if she does that. The memo does not say ANYTHING negative about Obama. Please reread it. Also there is a lot of evidence (I posted in another diary) that this is Canadian right-winger trying to manipulate our elections. And our own USA right wingers and Hillary-at-any-cost people are flogging it for all its worth. It could possibly sink Obama but that would be one of many examples of a candidate being sunk by dishonest innuendo and smears. It seems obvious that many of Clinton's supporters are quite willing to go that route. I see Clinton as Rove-lite. Very scary.

by Becky G 2008-03-03 07:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

(Yawn).  You guys still at this?

by Drummond 2008-03-02 09:21PM | 0 recs
Wait.

I though words were so damn important and inspirational!  

by linc 2008-03-02 09:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Wait.

There's a point of diminishing returns, and the words on this blog desperately attacking Obama more viciously than the Republicans ever will are getting plentiful and old.

by Drummond 2008-03-02 10:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Wait.

obama and goolsbee have attacked themselves.

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:44PM | 0 recs
Oh, man...

If you think this is "more vicious than the Republicans." you've been, I dunno, clearly on a different planet than the one most of us have been living on these last 15 years or so. That's what some Obama supporters don't seem to get. This is nothing. This is fact-based. The kind of stuff that's going to come at Obama from the Republican slime machine is going to make this look like a lovely Valentine.

by OtherLisa 2008-03-02 11:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Oh, man...

The Republicans also claim their attacks are "fact based."  But all we have here is a memo which doesn't even claim to quote Goolesbee and a government which admits he never said anything like it.

But there's a piece of paper and that's enough.  Classic swift boating.

by Drummond 2008-03-03 03:36PM | 0 recs
The Canadian gov't

made no such claim.  The memo is record of the canadian gov't, thats why it was obtainable.  The Canadian gov't merely tried to distance itself from appearing to interfere in the US election.  THEY NEVER said the memo didn't exist.

by linc 2008-03-03 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: The Canadian gov't

No, the memo exists.  It's the subject interpretation by an anonymous author of a statement apparently made by someone who happens to be associated with Obama, and completely sans any meaningful context.

From that you have drawn the conclusions you want to make.  The Canadian government has not.

by Drummond 2008-03-03 05:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

So, you are saying that the only words that you listen to are PROPAGANDA.  I have already had enough of having to tolerate a president who LIES.  It is time for a president with integrity, substance, and proven ability.  Go Hillary!!!

by macmcd 2008-03-03 04:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Who killed Vince Foster?

I'm starting to wonder.

by Drummond 2008-03-03 03:38PM | 0 recs
Obama campaign:

"don't listen to any of our very, very important words, they are all just bullshit, just ask the Canadians."

by linc 2008-03-02 09:26PM | 0 recs
Obama ALWAYS emphassized labor and environmental

protections with trade deals. That's a fair trade position.

This looks like a trap setup by the rightwing Canadian government to corner Obama here to help the Republicans. Goolsbee should've been more careful not to fall for the trap, but it changes nothing about where Obama stands on trade. And that's fair trade, period.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 09:28PM | 0 recs
You mean thats what Obama told you

were the facts.  Seems his advisers are telling others that his is full of it.  Hmm... who to believe, Canadians or the 'words are important' guy.  hmmm...

by linc 2008-03-02 09:33PM | 0 recs
I know his and the Clintons' trade record:

Clinton:

  1. Bill Clinton pushed NAFTA and China MFN
  2. Hillary Clinton supported/praised NAFTA for years. link
  3. She voted for Singapore, Chile, Vietnam, Oman and Peru free trade agreements.
  4. She voted against Andean nations FTA and CAFTA.

Obama:

  1. voted for Oman and Peru FTAs.
  2. voted against CAFTA.

As for the Goolsbee episode, please see my other comments here.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 10:05PM | 0 recs
Re: I know his and the Clintons' trade record:

Doesn't work here.  Peddle those diversionary b.s. arguments over at the OrangeObama.

by susanhu 2008-03-03 03:39AM | 0 recs
Re: You are joking, right? A TRAP?

I'm sorry.. was that satire?  Or was it tin foil?  Hard to tell this late at night.  

yeah.. I think that the Candian government was lying in wait to trap Obama's campaign employee. They lured him up there, all part of their sinister plot.

Why can't the obama fans just admit when the campaign screwed up?  It's never the screw-up that gets you, it's the cover-up.  

by Catriley sez 2008-03-02 09:38PM | 0 recs
Re: You are joking, right? A TRAP?

I don't think that the Obama campaign handled this well (they should've been swift it putting this matter to rest), but that doesn't contradict what I said. I also think that Goolsbee has been essentially consistent in what he said all through.

As for conspiracy, why did DeMora leak to the press the contents of a meeting that was initiated by the consulate? This is an outrageously dirty trick by the rightwing Canadian government. Democrats shouldn't be cheering this on.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 10:02PM | 0 recs
Re: You are joking, right? A TRAP?

because the obama campaign questioned the integrity of ctv's report, evidence had to be produced.  and now we are in the possession of such evidence, which any voter of integrity will utilize when determining the manner in which she should vote.  because obama lied to the voters of ohio and of the united states on a matter of trade and of foreign policy, i imagine it will cost him and his sycophantic supporters dearly.

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:04PM | 0 recs
Re: You are joking, right? A TRAP?

Folks, this has nothing to do with trade anymore. It has everything to do with what Obama himself said over the last few days that is in direct conflict with these revelations.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 10:09PM | 0 recs
Re: You are joking, right? A TRAP?

as i said, he lied to the voters of ohio.  and for this he must be held to account.

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:12PM | 0 recs
Chief, try not to get giddy with exaltation.

"he lied to the voters of ohio.  and for this he must be held to account."

No. Obama has consistently been for fair trade (and he never said he was a protectionist), and this episode by Goolsbee doesn't change that fact.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 10:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Chief, try not to get giddy with exaltation.

Let them have their fun. Remember how Obama's campaign was gonna end because he borrowed a couple lines from Deval Patrick? I see a similar level of impact for this latest "scandal."

by animated 2008-03-02 10:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Chief, try not to get giddy with exaltation.

Thanks for reminding everyone.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 10:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Chief, try not to get giddy with exaltation.

Dude, he lied. He said no one met with the Canadians. It's really bad.

Watch the video:

Video Interview with Obama on Ohio WKYC

Look at his eyes...

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 10:23PM | 0 recs
Video format doesn't play in my browser

do you have transcript or youtube of the same thing?

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 10:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Video format doesn't play in my browser

it played in my browser.  and yes, obama lied.  

obama and his supporters have no integrity.

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Video format doesn't play in my browser

Best I can do:

http://www.wkyc.com/includes/buildasx_oa s.aspx?fn=http://wm.wkyc.gannett.edgestr eams.net/news/20080228_obamatalkback_wky c.wmv&sp=,http://wm.wkyc.gannett.edg estreams.net/ads/sales/20070504_davidelk _wkyc.wmv

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 10:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Video format doesn't play in my browser

i'm trying to get it work. will report on success or o/w

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 10:38PM | 0 recs
OK, watched the video

What Obama said was not untrue as it was about any communication with the embassy and the ambassador which was the initial (false) story reported by CTV, but it doesn't cover CHicago consulate's communication with Goolsbee. However, the date of the link shows it to be from 2/28, which is 4-5 days ago. I am not aware of what Obama knew at that state about Goolsbee's activities with the consulate.

Knowing what we now know, I would've advised Obama to say this: "Chicago consulate contacted Goolsbee and he told them what I have said all along. That, I support trade as long as labor and environmental protections are enforced".

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 11:14PM | 0 recs
Re: OK, watched the video

parsing...

parsing...

parsing...

haven't we had enough of these technical defenses?

aren't you tired of them?

do you what to go through years of defending them after years of railing against them?

isn't it time for all the lying to stop?

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 11:20PM | 0 recs
You prefer the 'meaning of IS'?

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 11:22PM | 0 recs
Re: You prefer the 'meaning of IS'?

NO...

recognize that that is not a defense.

the fact that someone else lied does not justify lying.

the issue is the lie of the day, and for that one I think we need to go to Barak Obama...

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 11:28PM | 0 recs
Re: You prefer the 'meaning of IS'?

As of 2/28 he may not have known much about the consulate's communication w/ Goolsbee. He was addressing the initial false CTV report.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 11:32PM | 0 recs
Re: You prefer the 'meaning of IS'?

he didn't say he didn't know...

he said

Obama:

"our office has said it was not true, and so it is important for viewers to understand that was not true"

Questioner:

"So completely inaccurate. Did not happen. End of discussion?"

Obama:

<shakes head, looks into the camera> It did not happen.

Watch the video

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 12:08AM | 0 recs
Re: OK, watched the video

"What Obama said was not untrue as it was about any communication with the embassy and the ambassador which was the initial (false) story reported by CTV, but it doesn't cover CHicago consulate's communication with Goolsbee."--NuevoLiberal

The Canadian consulate is a branch of the Canadian Embassy enjoying the same diplomatic rights.The Consulate General is a senior diplomat, hence he gets to send cables of his conversations and observations back to the Foreign Ministry and they are taken seriously. C'mon, this is like saying Al Qaeda in Afghanistan is not the same thing as Al Qaeda in Iraq, or its like saying Coke Classic is not owned by the same makers of Coke Zero.

Anyway I thought Obama was all about "new pages" and "new politics." Looks to me like the very same wink and nod old politics played badly and naively. Obama sure is tricky, tricky, tricky.

by superetendar 2008-03-03 03:41AM | 0 recs
Re: OK, watched the video

Okay, now you're trying to define what 'is' is.

The Consulate General IS part of the Embassy.  The Consul General is #3 in the chain of command.  The A.P. goes on to show that the memeo is 1300 words, which is more than just a summary, and was WIDELY DISTRIBUTED within the Government.

And Obama & the campaign knew the DAY IT CAME OUT, what was said and who was involved.  The should have stuck with the story was 'inaccurate' on 2/28...and stuck with it.

by TxDem08 2008-03-03 06:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Chief, try not to get giddy with exaltation.

Do you just hope that no one looks at this link?

The Obama statement in this video is in no way contradicted by the new memo, it is supported by the memo.  The video does show how the initial CTV story (which is relayed by the interviewer) has been proved wrong by the memo.

I challenge you to pull out any part of the Obama statement that has been contradicted by the new memo, and you can even ignore the internal conflicts in this memo (see my post above about contradictions.)

Also, I hope people look at the NYT story, rather than myDD spin, there is no problem here.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Chief, try not to get giddy with exaltation.

he claimed his staff never met with the canadian government, when goolsbee in fact did.

i understand why you necessarily distort the evidence, and i find it somewhat regrettable.  but at least we can acknowledge that obama's campaign claimed his stance on nafta was so much empty rhetoric to the canadian government.  we also know that obama refused to admit his staff communicated this to the canadian government.  obama, in other words, lied.

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:23PM | 0 recs
The link you gave below say this:


Obama campaign mum on NAFTA contact with Canada

Updated Fri. Feb. 29 2008 12:32 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Despite repeated requests, Barack Obama's campaign is still neither verifying nor denying a CTV report that a senior member of the team made contact with the Canadian government -- via the Chicago consulate general -- regarding comments Obama made about NAFTA.

Here, the campaign denies the claimed nature of the exchange, and only mum on whether the exchange itself took place:


The Obama campaign told CTV late Thursday night that no message was passed to the Canadian government that suggests that Obama does not mean what he says about opting out of NAFTA if it is not renegotiated.

However, the Obama camp did not respond to repeated questions from CTV on reports that a conversation on this matter was held between Obama's senior economic adviser -- Austan Goolsbee -- and the Canadian Consulate General in Chicago.

So, where do you pull this claim from: "he claimed his staff never met with the canadian government".

Obama campaign should've been straightforward about this all the way, but you're pulling stuff out of your ass with your exaggeration and distortion.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 10:35PM | 0 recs
Re: The link you gave below say this:

obama campaign and obama supporters cited goolsbee's denial of such a conversation.

story at tpm

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:41PM | 0 recs
That TPM article says this

in full:


Obama Adviser Denies CTV's Latest On NAFTA
By Greg Sargent - February 29, 2008, 1:07PM

The New York Observer managed to track down Austan Goolsbee, the Obama adviser who, according to the latest report on Canada TV, was the one who may have told a Canadian official that Obama's anti-NAFTA stump speech is merely "campaign rhetoric."

And Goolsbee denies it:

   "It is a totally inaccurate story," he said. "I did not call these people and I direct you to the press office."

Meanwhile, Obama spokesperson Bill Burton also denies this latest round, via email: This story is not true. There was no one at any level of our campaign, at any point, anywhere, who said or otherwise implied Obama was backing away from his consistent position on trade.

Goolsbee repotedly said here that:
A. the story was inaccurate and
B. that he didn't call them.

(B) seems to be true because the Canadian consulate seems to have called  him based on the latest NYT article.

In (A) He is calling the story inaccurate, which is an overall characterization, not a specific denial of the kind you've claimed when you said: "he claimed his staff never met with the canadian government"

Burton was saying that no one said that "Obama was backing away from his consistent position on trade" which still stands.

As I said, the way they handled this trap by the rightwing Cananadian government  is not good. But, you have not demonstrated a lie by the Obama campaign.

I still couldn't get the video to play on my system (which is not windows or MAC).

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 10:53PM | 0 recs
Re: That TPM article says this

obama lied.  and his campaign lied.  this is a huge story.  and your attempts to mince words is revolting.

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:54PM | 0 recs
Re: That TPM article says this

See my response above

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 11:16PM | 0 recs
Re: The link you gave below say this:

low information obama supporters also cited the canadian government on friday in a vain attempt to suppress goolsbee's controversial conversation with the canadian consulate on obama's willingness to exploit disdain for NAFTA for political gain during an election season.

politico article with statements from canadian government cited by obama supporters on friday

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:43PM | 0 recs
Re: The link you gave below say this:

parsing...

...always a mistake, because when the s#&t hits the fan, nobody cares about the clever little details.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 10:55PM | 0 recs
by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:25AM | 0 recs
CTV kept changing their story.

I'm for ALL facts to be put out there, not hidden, and fairly presented.

"because obama lied to the voters of ohio and of the united states on a matter of trade and of foreign policy, i imagine it will cost him and his sycophantic supporters dearly."

Nonsense. Nothing in this report contradicts what Obama said his trade policy positions are. He always said he supports foreign trade (in fact quite bluntly sometimes) but absolutely wants it to be fair trade.

The Clintons gave us NAFTA (BTW, I don't think that NAFTA is evil; it needs to be fixed for better enforceable protections).

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 10:10PM | 0 recs
Re: CTV kept changing their story.

he claimed his campaign never communicated with the canadian government, when they in fact did.  

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:12PM | 0 recs
Show me your exact quote of this (w/ a link)

claim: "he claimed his campaign never communicated with the canadian government"

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 10:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Show me your exact quote of this (w/ a link)

Watch him:

Video Interview with Obama on Ohio WKYC

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 10:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Show me your exact quote of this (w/ a link)

the obama campaign cited the canadian embassy in washington, dc, in order to claim no conversation occurred.  but now we know one did.  and now we know why the obama campaign equivocated when asked to verify goolsbee's statements.

link

obama and his supporters are shameless liars

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Show me your exact quote of this (w/ a link)

You still haven't come up with an Obama quote that can be contradicted.  There are a lot of CTV statements that have been proven wrong.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/02/obama_adviser_denies_ctv s_late.php

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 208/Talking_to_Canada.html

Silly people; but at least you seem to get some psychological joy by pushing non-stories, I'm just not sure that's a health hobby.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Show me your exact quote of this (w/ a link)

anyone who casts a vote for obama in the wake of this controversy has no integrity whatsoever.

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Show me your exact quote of this (w/ a link)

Or they know the facts.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:31AM | 0 recs
The consulate contacted Goolsbee

not the other way around as becomes quite clear from the article:


He said he was invited to the consulate to meet the officials and get a tour.

He said the visit lasted about 40 minutes, and perhaps two to three minutes were spent discussing NAFTA. He said the Canadians asked about Obama's position, and he replied about his interest in improving labor and environmental standards, and they raised some concerns that Obama sounds like a protectionist.
...
Tristan Landry, a spokesman for the Canadian embassy in Washington, said DeMora was not available for an interview Sunday. His only comment on the memo was to say that although consulate officials reach out to U.S. campaign officials to seek their views...
...
Obama spokesman Bill Burton said Goolsbee's visit was not as an emissary from the campaign, but as a professor from the University of Chicago. He was not authorized to share any messages from the campaign, Burton said.

Therefore, the diarist's claim: "That Obama economic adviser Austan Goolsbee contacted officials" is (likely deliberately) misleading.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 09:57PM | 0 recs
Re: The consulate contacted Goolsbee

But goolsbee still uttered the controversial statement on NAFTA.  and the obama campaign denied such a conversation took place.  now that the campaign has misled you and others, are you now obliged to hold the campaign accountable?  or do you insist on mindlessly defending obama and goolsbee?

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:03PM | 0 recs
You need to give exact quotes if you

want to discuss this on rational terms.

Here is what we get from the [NYT post ]


''On NAFTA, Goolsbee suggested that Obama is less about fundamentally changing the agreement and more in favour of strengthening/clarifying language on labour mobility and environment and trying to establish these as more `core' principles of the agreement.''

Goolsbee said that sentence is true and consistent with Obama's position. But he said other portions of the memo were inaccurate.

"But goolsbee still uttered the controversial statement on NAFTA"

Tell me exactly which "controversial statement" and provide a quote w/ a link.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 10:21PM | 0 recs
Re: You need to give exact quotes if you

you are quite dense.

i quote the ap, who obtained a copy of the memo that recorded the following statement of goolsbee, obama's economic policy advisor:

"Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook, Goolsbee candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign. He cautioned that this messaging should not be taken out of context and should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans."

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:39PM | 0 recs
Goolsbee denied that part of the description

by DeMora.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-02 11:17PM | 0 recs
Re: You need to give exact quotes if you

The memo self conflicts with itself on this point.  See my post much further up.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:33AM | 0 recs
Goolsbee is Barack Obama's

senior economic advisor.

He's not some precinct captain knocking on doors id'ing voters.

He's the senior economic advisor to the mman who at this moment leads in the delegate count to win the nomination of the Democratic Party.

Goolsbee speaks for Obama when he speaks about economics.

He doesn't have to run and ask permission to speak about Obama's policies.

Jeesus, Goolsbee comes up with Obama's economic positions.

That's his job.

So there are 2 ways to handle this:
either Obama and Goolsbee need to sit down and discuss economic policy and see if they are on the same page about the basics ( NAFTA and trade is  pretty basic don't you think?)or Goolsbbee  is so wrong on this that he has to go.

What other way is there to deal with this?

by merbex 2008-03-03 03:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama ALWAYS ....

Obama's words mean nothing to you?  That is refreshing.  Please get some rest because your new mindset may have weakened your system for a short while.  ;-)

by macmcd 2008-03-03 05:08AM | 0 recs
One day left Clinto Campaign...

Grab this ball and run with it hard!

You have the facts on your side.

Do not let the media shout you down.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 09:29PM | 0 recs
Re: One day left Clinto Campaign...

Too bad Hillary has so little credibility on this issue herself.

"Obama, I want you to be consistent in your opposition to the trade deal by husband signed! The one I used to be for, but now I'm against, sort of."

by animated 2008-03-02 09:34PM | 0 recs
Re: One day left Clinto Campaign...

Yeah, and I'm in total agreement with everything my husband does... all women are. Right ladies? LOL.

I love how the obama fans denigrate Hillary's time as a First Lady saying it doens't count for anything, yet when it's convenient she was suddenly a party to everything Bill did.

by Catriley sez 2008-03-02 09:40PM | 0 recs
Re: One day left Clinto Campaign...

I'm sorry. This has nothing to do with trade. If the Obama campaign had frankly disclosed this stuff when it was first revealed there would be a bit inconvenient, but no big story. But now it is. And the story has nothing to do with trade, it has everything to do with honesty.

Watch this video:

Video Interview with Obama on Ohio WKYC

That's the problem now.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 09:46PM | 0 recs
Re: One day left Clinto Campaign...

As stated further up this video taken with the memo only proves Obama was correct and CTV was wrong.

You want a big story that nobody is talking about?

http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/arch ive/2008/02/29/718285.aspx

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Hmmm... wonder if this story is fueling Obama's surrogates calling for Hillary to concede asap?  

Sadly, this type of situation is what you get when you have an unathentic candidate, and rank amateurs working in the campaign. You can only script so much. This incident, the sudden return by both Obama and Axelrove to the "Hillary didn't read the NIE" meme, and the the Obama/Axelrove identical misspeak regarding the IWR vote today shows that all it takes is one little wheel to come off the tracks before the entire illusion vanishes.  The trouble with smoke and mirrors is that eventually the smoke dissipates, revealing only a reflection.

by Catriley sez 2008-03-02 09:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Man Hillary must suck to be on the ropes against an "unauthentic canidate and rank amateurs" I mean seriously is she the single worst canidate to have ever been annointed the front-runner?

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 10:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

I am guessing it is ALSO about Rezko whose trial begins today.

by macmcd 2008-03-03 05:10AM | 0 recs
by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

You guys think this will be a big story? It won't. I can guarantee you it will not be the lede on any major news site or paper. It's a sidebar story at best.

And a sidebar story, doesn't move votes.

by animated 2008-03-02 09:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Yes. It is a big story. Watch the video. Redhanded is bad.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 10:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

This video:

Video Interview with Obama on Ohio WKYC 2/28 or 2/29

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 10:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

OK, you're right

I can now see that this will be a huge story on MyDD. I predict this diary hits the Rec'd List within minutes.

by animated 2008-03-02 10:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Well, it's on the AP and NY Times right now too.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 10:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

And is anyone running it? I see it buried in the More News section on MSNBC. I don't see it at all on CNN or ABC.

Normally if something is a big breaking story it doesn't appear buried at the bottom of the page.

But I don't want to rain on your parade. Please, carry on.

by animated 2008-03-02 10:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

This would be the same memo that even the Canadian aide who wrote it admits is a "miscommunication" right? Wow, this is going to be huge! Hey for fun let's list the "campaign ending stories" pushed just in Feb. (a month that ended with an 11-0 Obama streak):

-Ayers (Obama's a scary terrorist lover)
-Odinga (Obama loves a cousin who has some fuzzy link to Islam)
-Plagarism (Obama's an empty suit..that's why this is an issue with his campaign and not with Hillary's)
-NAFTA (sure Hillary was undeniably for it, but hey Obama's economic advisor may have talked about it for 3 minutes in a misconstrued conversation to a Canadian consulate aide)

And yet there has been no real impact, funny that.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 10:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

The kitchen sink strategy doesn't work when fueled by hype.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

I'll say this: It would be a huge media story if Clinton were the one caught up in this.

I have no idea how it will play out with Obama. He and McCain have a different set of rules.

by OrangeFur 2008-03-02 10:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

I disagree. The media tends to latch onto stories that are easy to soundbite and have a picture or video associated with them. Hence the "plaigairism"
story got a lot of airtime, even though it ultimately had little effect.

A behind-the-scenes story like this about something as unsexy as NAFTA which involves things a campaign adviser MAY have done in an informal capacity, well, that's just not the kind of thing that has teeth, whether it's Clinton, Obama, or anyone else.

I'm sure it will be HUGE on MyDD though.

by animated 2008-03-02 10:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

has this revelation at least forced you to reconsider your support for obama?  i believe it should.  and if it has not, it reveals you have no integrity.

by truthteller2007 2008-03-02 10:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

haha, I just had to LOL when I read your comment. Great satire! You must be living in a very different world from mine!

by marcotom 2008-03-03 03:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

A world where truth matters, unlike yours?

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 06:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

P.S. On the substance, let's face it, both Clinton and Obama are committed to free trade but with increased protections. Do you think for a minute that Hillary is going to get the US out of NAFTA?

by animated 2008-03-02 09:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Thanks so much, Susan, for another excellent and clarifying update on this developing scandal. I am grateful that this empty suit is being exposed for another piece of his misleading and pandering rhetoric. His disdain for the voters he deceives is breathtaking.

I wish so much that those of us who have directly experienced  Senator Clinton's compassion, sensitivity, and caring could convey her trustworthiness more clearly and compellingly. It often feels like trying to yell over a hurricane gale of slander, lies, and misinterpretations that is so often launched at her - in this brutal process of trickery and destruction that passes for a primary election.

It is true that this process will leave a considerable amount of bitterness behind it, if she loses, especially to someone who is unqualified and selling voters a phony bill of goods.

The way Hillary Clinton is being portrayed by Obama's supporters is almost worse than how she was vilified by the right, maybe it just seems worse because they are supposed to be Democrats and one would expect they would be even a tiny bit more honest. It's a major turn off.

by 07rescue 2008-03-02 09:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

You mean her compassion when she made up allegations (with no evidence presented in the record) against a 12 year old rape victim?

In 1975, a 27-year-old Hillary Rodham, acting as a court-appointed attorney, attacked the credibility of a 12-year-old girl in mounting an aggressive defense for an indigent client accused of rape in Arkansas - using her child development background to help the defendant... Rodham, records show, questioned the sixth grader's honesty and claimed she had made false accusations in the past. She implied that the girl often fantasized and sought out "older men" like Taylor, according to a July 1975 affidavit signed "Hillary D. Rodham" in compact cursive.

Of course, she subsequently accused the victims of her own husband's sexual harassment (and alleged rape, in one instance) of making it up as well. But, hey, the price you pay for being a lawyer, a pol, and a feminist, eh?

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:54AM | 0 recs
Well done, susanhu!

by Scan 2008-03-02 09:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

DeMora has now joined Rioux and Goolsbee in the land of unavailable to comment.

I think Obama's position on trade is probably quite reasonable. But there's no question that when the CTV story broke, they set out to deceive and mislead the public. Some people might say it was lying.

After the first article came out, the Obama campaign issued a denial that appeared to say that the story was completely false, that there was no contact of any kind. I think DailyKos will be full of comments of Obama supporters who took them at their word.

After CTV released Goolsbee's name, they had Goolsbee deny ever calling them, and refused to confirm or deny that there was ever a meeting, maybe a phone call to say hello, all the while saying the whole thing was no big deal.

Now we know for certain that there was a meeting that ran some 40 minutes and resulted in a 1,300-word memo, and which the Canadians interpreted what was said as that Obama's NAFTA rhetoric was merely political posturing.

There's no way around this. The Obama campaign deliberately misled the public and the press about what happened. They've now been forced to admit there was a long meeting at which NAFTA was discussed. They now say that the Canadians misinterpreted what Goolsbee said. Maybe. But their credibility on this matter is in tatters right now.

by OrangeFur 2008-03-02 10:26PM | 0 recs
by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:56AM | 0 recs
CNN, NBC, FOX, ABC

One last thing tonight, and we will see how it stands in the morning, but...

This is news.

Deliberately ignoring this clear case of lying to the media about a very specific matter definately qualifies for news. You spent two days on TurbanGate.

If you continue to ignore this you will be guilty of a clear case of manipulation of the Democratic Primary. You know about it. You sat on it.

I don't expect you to change your ways, but this is a very clear and obvious example of your deliberate bias. It will be an historical example.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 10:49PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN, NBC, FOX, ABC

I'll just say I'm not holding my breath.

by OrangeFur 2008-03-02 10:58PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN, NBC, FOX, ABC

Further, not that you care, whoever you are...

But, someone is making these decisions to spike real news that could have an effect on the outcome of a democratic election which in turn is critical to the Democratic nomination.

Someone is sitting in an office right now. Lot's of someones in fact, and deciding to spike this story. Are they calling each other? Good bet.

That is the stuff for Congressional hearings and potential legislation. Ever since the end of the Fairness Act (thanks Bill...) you have been operating with impunity on our airwaves (..and it doesn't matter that is is over cable...it's public information...you are just stewarts...and your doing a terrible job).

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-02 11:12PM | 0 recs
Re: CNN, NBC, FOX, ABC

Just because you think its real news, and repeat it over and over again, does not make it so.

Nobody cares about this futile exercise is semantics. Obama says he wants to strengthen the labor and environmental protections, and Goolsbee basically confirms that. Nowhere did he say "whatever we say is b.s., don't worry about it", as you guys are so desperately trying to spin it. He simply says not to be alarmed and to clarify that President Obama will work with the Canadian government to change NAFTA.

But hey, keep flailing. You have a whole day and a half to keep it up.

by John in Chicago 2008-03-03 06:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

In a certain way, I respect what the Obama defenders on this thread are trying to do. You have to stick up for your guy, even when it's hard.

But sometimes you just have to concede the point and go on. Sometimes your guy just screwed up bigtime, and you should let it go and not worry about it. Heck, I didn't buy that BET founder Bob Johnson was talking about Obama's community organizing.

by OrangeFur 2008-03-02 11:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Susan Susan Susan!!! Get a Life!!!!

You are truly pathetic.

Get a life!!!!

by mikelewis68 2008-03-03 12:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Susan Susan Susan!!! Get a Life!!!!

The truth is always sticky and very difficult to get rid of.

As much as we don't want to admit, the shit is about to hit the fan for Obama camp.  And it won't be pleasant.

by JoeySky18 2008-03-03 01:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Susan Susan Susan!!! Get a Life!!!!

The news cycle will be dominated by other things, like Obama's fund-raising number and peeeerhaps a coordinated endorsement or two.

by Setrak 2008-03-03 01:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

First it was, "didn't happen."

Now, it's, "well, it happened, but Obama's chief economic advisor isn't a spokesman for the campaign, so it might as well not have happened."

It's the lie. The lie happened.

by Tennessean 2008-03-03 02:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

 

 Not ready for prime time

by gunner 2008-03-03 03:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Did you even read the NYT article?  Did you see that the memo conflicts itself?  See my posts about the contradictions way up above.

Please post the sourced statements to support your claims.

Oh no, the facts only show that CTV has reversed statements, not Obama.  Facts are so inconvenient.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 07:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

 

 You can bet Hannity will have it and it will be pulled out again for Nov. Back to community work in the windy city !!!!!!

by gunner 2008-03-03 02:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

He does have it, because it likely came from right wing sources.  And Obama is going to win the nomination.  And if any of you are actual thinking Democrats, you'd stop pushing this kind of bullshit rightwing smear on our party's candidate.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-03 09:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Yep, I just saw it on CNN. This is huge. I hope the American people wake up out of the purple haze and get a clue on Obama's duplicity.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-03 04:13AM | 0 recs
It's BURIED on CNN.com

Way down on the Politics front page, under "Obama Advisor: Memo on Trade Wrong".  (Yawn!)  Beneath the Poll Of Polls results indicating that Obama is favored over Hillary by Democratic voters 50% to 40%.  And the delegate counter indicating that Obama needs 656 of the remaining delegates to win, while Hillary needs 758.

You're grasping at straws here.  This isn't "huge".  It won't change Ohio, although Hillary of course may win that state.  It's the kind of stuff that the American public at large doesn't give a shit about.  The same kind of stuff that Clinton, Bush, and everybody else gets away with all the time--i.e., NO BIG DEAL.

by paul minot 2008-03-03 04:41AM | 0 recs
Re: It's BURIED on CNN.com

Not buried for long. I think if you take a peek on CNN's Politics page it's now the main story. This story was also discussed on MSNBC's Morning Joe. I understand that you need to tell yourself something to get through the day. Obama's whole campaign is based on speeches and rhetoric, now his "talk" is just a big fat lie aired in public. I know this must hurt you. I'm sorry for that.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-03 06:15AM | 0 recs
Re: It's BURIED on CNN.com

 

  It`s not to late for BO people to get on board the winning ticket. We welcome you with open arms.

by gunner 2008-03-03 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

Thank you for this update. Fantastic! I just wrote all the local media and provided the details that apparently as journalists they are to lazy to investigate. I suggest that all Hillary supporters do the same to EVERY single news outlet in Ohio and Texas. And Rhode Island and Vermont. And ANYWHERE else, especially PA.

Obama just got busted and it's about frickin time. In fact, right in time.

by Fleaflicker 2008-03-03 04:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

Maybe too late, but here's to hoping!

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 06:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE]

For the sake of the Democratic party I hope it isn't too late.

by Fleaflicker 2008-03-03 06:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

Do you think this is more important than HRC getting it wrong on Iraq and supporting NAFTA for most of her political career?

by mainelib 2008-03-03 04:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

she didn't lie about it.   She could have lie that "yes I read NIE", nobody would know.  But she said the truth how she came to her conclusion and made a decision as such.  

He lied about his position on NAFTA.  "It didn't happen"  Now the report shows that it did happen after all.

And you are making a wrong accusation based on Obama mailer which is another lie "supporting NAFTA for most of her political career".

by JoeySky18 2008-03-03 05:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

This is the reason why people are really sick of politics -- blowing up little, tiny issues into a big deal.  It's all gotcha politics.

There are so many things that Obama could have gone after Clinton about -- all the fundraising issues for her and back from the Clinton years -- yet he has not.

He is far from perfect, but I am proud that I switched my support from Clinton to Obama.

by mainelib 2008-03-03 05:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

Please find quotes where he "lied."

You'll have trouble because, they don't exist.

Only CTV has had to change their story, not Obama.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 07:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhLCKz-8o wY

by JoeySky18 2008-03-03 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

Everything he said in this clip is true.  Everything he said is confirmed by the NY times article.  The new memo even states that Goolsbee told the Canadians Obama wanted to change NAFTA regarding environmental and labor issues.

Try again.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 06:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

What will happen if this makes primetime is that Goolsbee will be fired, and Ploufe, Axelrod, and Obama, having plausible deniability, will deny knowing that the meeting took place and reiterate his stance on NAFTA.

I do think MYDD has overblown the issue.  Regardless of how Susanhu would frame him, the consulate member, 1. works for a conservative Canadian government, and 2. is in fact, low level.  Canada's ambassador also denied any meeting took place.  So, even with a memo written by another low level staffer of a consulate in Chicago (not in the capital or in NY), there's been a lot of confusion on both sides of the border.  The argument could be made that Canada was trying to interfere with our political process by contacting both the Obama and Clinton campaigns to begin with.  It's not a good story, even if you try to make it about Obama being misleading.

I do agree, the campaign handled this in the wrong way entirely.  When the story first broke, Goolsbee should have been forthright with what happened and let everyone know that he felt that he was misinterpreted.  I imagine that he probably didn't inform the top brass that the meeting happened initially (it was a 40 minute tour according to him), and when the story hit TV was thinking more about his job than the campaign.

by shalca 2008-03-03 05:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate
So let's do the damage control and cut Goolsbee loose shall we.  
We better hope that Goolsbee didn't turn around and bite Obama.
by JoeySky18 2008-03-03 05:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

No the story is that Obama himself lied about it. You can't fire Obama.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 06:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Excellent diary and timeline.  Obama's campaign has been all about words.  Now it turns out he is ambidexterous and speaks out of both sides of his mouth at one time.  At the same time that he is lying and trying to rewrite history about Hillary's long and excellent service to our country he is also lying and trying to rewrite history about his own career even as it is happening.  He is exactly like George W. Bush in that aspect of his character.

Thank god we have Hillary as a superior candidate to lead our country.

by macmcd 2008-03-03 05:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

This sort of response makes me sad. It's petty politics, tearing down one's opponent based on ambiguous parsing and turning something so minor into a major issue.

You use the word "lie" so easily.  Do you always see the world in such stark contrasts?

by mainelib 2008-03-03 05:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama lied

I had gotten used to this bs, but I really would prefer that we don't have to have a campaign based on petty, narrow parsings of what a minor advisor said to a minor official.

By the way, what did the Obama advisor purportedly say that in any way contradicts what Obama said was his position on NAFTA in the debate?

by mainelib 2008-03-03 05:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama lied

Wow, the denial is deep. I know Obama's lies must hurt you. It's ok. We're here for you.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-03 06:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama lied

What hurts is to see Democrats acting like the Ken Starr supporting Republican base.

by mainelib 2008-03-03 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Because it is a lie.

Watch the video:

Video Interview with Obama on Ohio WKYC

"It never happened."

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 06:13AM | 0 recs
Consider the source...

Conservatives accused of hampering Obama bid

"You've got a right-wing government in Canada that is trying to help the Republicans and is out there actively interfering in this campaign," Shrum said of Prime Minister Stephen Harper's regime.

by JoeCoaster 2008-03-03 05:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Consider the source...

American's don't take kindly to foreign governments interfering in our elections. That's how this will be spun and it will help Obama.  

by JoeCoaster 2008-03-03 05:45AM | 0 recs
1.5 more days

Only one and a half more days of this nonsense, and for that, I thank the Baby Jesus.

by John in Chicago 2008-03-03 06:17AM | 0 recs
Re: 1.5 more days

Last I looked there are seven months until the election, and five months until the nomination.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 06:40AM | 0 recs
Re: 1.5 more days

Well, you better check your calender again on Wednesday then.

by John in Chicago 2008-03-03 06:45AM | 0 recs
Hillary now has to stay in after Tuesday...

...no matter what happens in OH and TX.

Oh, but for 24 hours, that's what the Obama folks are probably thinking this morning. If we had only been able to sit on this for 24 hours more, we could have gotten over the goal line. As it is, these breaking revelations that Obama directly lied with a straight face to the cameras may come too late for the impact to be fully felt tomorrow. We will see.

But, that does not mean it didn't happen. It does not mean that this will not remain a huge albatrose around the neck of this candidate who has campaigned almost entirely on the strength of his character and charism. That character lies shattered right now. Mr Hope now looks like Mr. Sneeky, and that reputation can not be recovered, maybe ever. So what does that mean?

Well first it may influence TX and OH. How much? Who knows, but the more important thing is it punctures Obama's campaign narrative. John McCain and the Republicans will have a field day with this if he becomes the nominee. Whenever he addresses crowds of Democrats they will see through the blarney--not some new sort of politician, but the same old sort we've lived with for the last eight years.

It may take a while for this to actually register with the electorate, but given time it will. It is a very good thing that there are months left to the convention and plenty of delegates and yes Superdelegates (whose job it is to guard against exactly this kind of thing) that we can insure that this country does not make a terrible mistake and hand over to the Republicans a nominee so clearly vulnerable to their inevitable attacks on his credibility and basic truthfulness.

Let's say they come out of tomorrow with effectively a tie and the gap stays about the same in pledged delegates. Conventional wisdom is that Hillary would have had to quit. What? Quit and hand over a nominee who has just been caught redhanded in a direct lie. He stared into the camera and said: "It never happened." That video will be burned into the minds of every voter in the country before the right wing media attack machine is done. That would not not serve the Democratic Party very well at all. No, this race must go on. Over the next months the remaining states and the Superdelegates need to look very closely at this man and decide if we want to nominate a candidate that tells the truth. Looks like MI and FL are going to be back in it. We are a long way from over ladies and gentlemen.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 06:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary now has to stay in after Tuesday...

This story only proves that CTV has been making false claims.  Did you even read the NYT article?

See my post about the memo contradictions above.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary now has to stay in after Tuesday...

More parsing.

That's definitely a "new kind of politics."

by Dave B 2008-03-03 07:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary now has to stay in after Tuesday...

It doesn't matter what the memo says. Obama was asked point blank on Thursday if a meeting occured. He said: "It never happened."

Well, it happened. He lied.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 07:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary now has to stay in after Tuesday...

Show me the quote where Obama denies something that has happened.  There is no such quote.

He denied meetings where his campaign told the Canadians to ignore the politics in the US, no such meeting has been shown to have happened.  And the CTV claims have been shown to be wrong on many points (who met, where, how, why, who initiated contact, what was said).  Even the memo says that Goolsbee clearly stated Obama wanted changes to NAFTA, this is exactly what Obama has said on the campaign trail.

by 1jpb 2008-03-03 08:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary now has to stay in after Tuesday...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhLCKz-8o wY

by JoeySky18 2008-03-03 09:51AM | 0 recs
The Daily Obama

It's interesting that this story made the rec list on Kos, then quickly fell away.

There were folks on there "circulating lists" of people who recommended what they called a hit diary.

I've got a user ID there of 10101, and a trusted user, and now my username is getting circulated because now I'm a troll.

Interesting how they are ready to trash fellow democrats.  Just what they "imagine" Hillary supporters are doing.

by Dave B 2008-03-03 07:06AM | 0 recs
Re: The Daily Obama

I diaried your comment over at the 'notorious' politicalfleshfeast: http://politicalfleshfeast.com/frontPage .do

by fairleft 2008-03-03 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

If Clinton should win the nomination through these sorts of strategies, she will have increased her negatives even further and will make it very, very hard for her to attract independents.

She also would have driven away the new voters who turned out for Obama.

She will have undermined her own chances.  

                  **

He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind -- Proverbs 11:29

by mainelib 2008-03-03 07:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

How is this the fault of the Clinton campaign? This is Obama's mess; he made it himself. There is no amount of deflecting or finger pointing that is getting him out of this one. Obama set himself up as the Washington outsider, above politics, a man of integrity with superior judgment, a man better than all the others, then he reveals himself as just another dirty politician. Not only did he just cost himself any place on the Democratic ticket, he just cost himself the presidency.  

by grlpatriot 2008-03-03 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

A dirty politician?  Where's the dirt?

by mainelib 2008-03-03 09:26AM | 0 recs
CNN is covering it

I'm watching Candy Crowley on CNN ... at least they're covering this story, calling it a "huge fire" that has to be put out quickly-- especially for a "campaign that promises a different kind of politics."

I hope this story gets the kind of coverage it deserves.

by Sieglinde 2008-03-03 08:37AM | 0 recs
Susan

The Clinton campaign has just put this up:

NAFTA-Gate: False Denials from the Obama Campaign

They have a YouTube of the WKYC intrerview which you could update to your diary.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

CNN has run the story on this at least 3 times since I turned on the tv this morning. I am wondering is Lou Dobbs is back from vacation because if he is, I am sure he will spend a large amount of time on it.

SAy what you will about Lou...but he is a bulldog with a large audience.

by americanincanada 2008-03-03 09:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

CNN has reported on this story every hour since 8 AM EST this morning. It's now 2:30 PM EST and still going, going, going. Like the Energizer Bunny.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-03 09:29AM | 0 recs
Really Dissapointing...

The willingness of certain 'democrats' here to carry out smears for the right wing.  

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-03 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Really Dissapointing...

There is nothing right wing about this NAFTA deal blew up in the face of Obama campaign.

He was the one sent out mailer attack Hilary on NAFTA based on INCORRECT information.

His senior economic advisor met Canadian consulate.
He denied that it never happened.  And now the truth came out that it actually did.  And someone for once is reporting the truth.  

Get used to the fact that the truth will catch up at some point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhLCKz-8o wY

by JoeySky18 2008-03-03 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Really Dissapointing...

You clearly didn't even read what I said.  Spam that link some more though...  

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-03 10:02AM | 0 recs
Hillary's statement on NAFTA-gate

3/3/08 - from the HRC website - "In a press availability this morning, Hillary Clinton made the following remarks regarding a memo that has surfaced confirming communication between Sen. Obama's top economic advisor, Austan Goolsbee and the Canadian embassy about NAFTA."


I think that after days of denial, the Obama campaign was confronted with a memo of a meeting - it was my understanding - in which there was a discussion of NAFTA. And it raises questions about Senator Obama coming to Ohio and giving speeches about NAFTA and having his chief economic advisor tell the Canadian government that it was just political rhetoric.

I don't think people should come to Ohio and tell the people of Ohio one thing and then have your campaign tell a foreign government something else behind closed doors. That's the kind of difference between talk and action and that I've been pointing out in this campaign. I think the questions should be directed at Senator Obama.

I don't think people should come to Ohio and you both give speeches that are very critical of NAFTA and you send out misleading and false information about my positions regarding NAFTA and then we find out that your chief economic advisor has gone to a foreign government and basically done the old wink-wink, don't pay any attention this is just political rhetoric.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-03 09:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

http://geo.international.gc.ca/can-am/wa shington/menu-en.asp

Statement by the Canadian Embassy
Washington, D.C., March 3, 2008 -- The Canadian Embassy and our Consulates General regularly contact those involved in all of the Presidential campaigns and, periodically, report on these contacts to interested officials. In the recent report produced by the Consulate General in Chicago, there was no intention to convey, in any way, that Senator Obama and his campaign team were taking a different position in public from views expressed in private, including about NAFTA. We deeply regret any inference that may have been drawn to that effect.

The people of the United States are in the process of choosing a new President and are fortunate to have strong and impressive candidates from both political parties. Canada will not interfere in this electoral process. We look forward, however, to working with the choice of the American people in further building an unparalleled relationship with a close friend and partner.

End of Story; move on ppl

by nick in pa 2008-03-03 10:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

The issue is that Obama said there was not meeting. Not anything that was said to the Canadians.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

He said there was no meeting?  Or he said there was no meeting when that was discussed?  The fact that these campaigns have been talking to the Canadians isn't at issue.  Or at least it wasn't yesterday...

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-03 11:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

He said there was no meeting.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 12:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate

Oh really?

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-03 12:22PM | 0 recs
A classic non-denial denial

Burton statement was a model non-denial denial that should have been a warning sign for anyone that the campaign was lying:


The news reports on Obama's position on NAFTA are inaccurate and in no way represent Senator Obama's consistent position on trade. When Senator Obama says that he will forcefully act to make NAFTA a better deal for American workers, he means it. Both Canada and Mexico should know that, as president, Barack Obama will do what it takes to create and protect American jobs and strengthen the American economy -- that includes amending NAFTA to include labor and environmental standards. We are currently reaching out to the Canadian embassy to correct this inaccuracy."

by techfidel 2008-03-03 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: A classic non-denial denial

And Canada has now apologized, huh go figure I guess Goolsbee was telling the truth.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-03 10:34AM | 0 recs
Obama's Basic Honesty Under Fire

The Media Is Going To Report This As a NAFTA matter.

This has nothing to do with NAFTA anymore.

It doesn't matter what Goolsbee said to the Canadians.

When asked if there was a meeting Obama looked into the camera and said "It Didn't Happen".

There was a meeting. It did happen.

Tell the media to spot trying to sping this as NAFTA when it is a question of Obama's honesty under fire.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-03 10:46AM | 0 recs
CNN Nailing Obama to NAFTA-Gate

CNN still reporting on NAFTA-gate. Wolf just previewed NAFTA-gate for the "Situation Room" that starts at 4PM EST. We'll have to see how the MSM reports on it this evening. Under Latest News, two links now on CNN homepage going to NAFTA-gate.

Clinton hammers Obama on NAFTA

Obama camp downplays conversation with Canada

by grlpatriot 2008-03-03 10:58AM | 0 recs
(Comment Deleted)

This comment has been deleted by an administrator.

by jaywillie 2008-03-03 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Thanks, Susan

And the contrast to the Obama campaign has been incredible.

There is so much obvious material that could be used against HRC and WJC, but Obama kept his campaign positive.

by mainelib 2008-03-03 11:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Thanks, Susan

You know, you could take all the mentions of Clinton out of this post and replace them with Obama... and have a very well recommended diary here. These comments, whether be from Obama supporters or Clinton supporters are worthless for anything other than finding out who is getting too caught up in things, and identifying trolls.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-03 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama

It was on the local news here along with Rezko going on trial.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-03 12:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Nailed on NAFTA-Gate [UPDATE with Obama

see the below link from Reuters:

"In the recent report produced by the consulate general in Chicago, there was no intention to convey, in any way, that Senator Obama and his campaign team were taking a different position in public from views expressed in private, including about NAFTA," said a foreign ministry spokesman.

"We deeply regret any inference that may have been drawn to that effect."

if this doesn't end the debate, something is seriously wrong; until the Canadian government statement, fine, but now arguing the point without mentioning the unequivocal denial by the government of canada -- which clearly would have spoken to the consular official who wrote the initial memo -- is wrong, and out of the other side's playbook

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsN ews/idUSN0338038720080303?feedType=RSS&a mp;feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22& sp=true

by dge 2008-03-03 12:58PM | 0 recs
Why is it ok?

for Obama supporters to say they will never vote for Hillary if she is the nominee?  Is this the democratic party or the Obama party?

by JustJennifer 2008-03-03 01:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Why is it ok?

They cannot handle that Obama lied. They are just lashing out. The tantrum will end soon.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-03 01:50PM | 0 recs
see what chris bowers reports on....

at openleft.

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?dia ryId=4317

at least worth considering folks.....

by james c 2008-03-03 03:06PM | 0 recs
Lies, lies, and Obama lies

Obama lying about NAFTA goes to the core of his campaign. He talks about trust and judgement. Yet he lies about the biggest issue facing Ohio right now. What exactly, is Obama telling the truth about? How do we know everything he states is not a lie. Will he pull out of Iraq, or support a new surge? He has stated flat out that he disagreed with his 2002 speech, and would have supported the Iraq war. He has voted for every spending measure for the war. Now he goes back on his earlier statement, and claims that he will follow is 2002 speech (that he later retracted). Is he just lying?

by moi moi 2008-03-03 04:21PM | 0 recs
NAFTAgate: A McCain-Harper Attack on Obamba

As Chris Bowers points out on openleft:

"So, the Canadian conservative prime minister is calling Barack Obama two-faced on NAFTA at the exact same moment that John McCain is indicating that Canada might pull out its troops on Afghanistan if we make too much a stink about NAFTA? That strikes me as more than a little suspicious."

http://openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId =4317

I find it disappointing that so many of Hillary's supporters would willing push along a rightwing smear.  Hopefully, you will all support the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is, as I will do.  

by bosdcla14 2008-03-03 06:23PM | 0 recs

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