Excuse my French

I'm not the most prolific diarist or commenter, but anyone familiar with my contributions knows something about my temperament.  I've cheered our field of candidates since before any of them announced.   I've contributed long essays where I've tried to be constructive in both praising and criticizing my favorite candidate, John Edwards.

I've tried to be very respectful toward other members of this community.  On those occasions when I think someone's made a particularly inane remark, the harshest you might expect from me is satire, not bile.

In other words, to use an old-fashioned idiom, I've kept a civil tongue in my head.

But not in this post. Because some members of this community have gone beyond the pale, and I don't feel like being at all polite toward them. I'm talking about this comment and response - the latter by someone who is accorded frontpage posting privileges on this blog.  I'm not going to blockquote their comments, because they don't deserve to be quoted.  They are shitty comments.  And the original commenter continues to smear this fecal matter in a new thread today.

Elizabeth Edwards, who herself has been an occasional contributor to the comment threads on MyDD, has incurable metastatic cancer.  Learning you have an incurable, fatal disease is the most horrible thing any person - and any couple - can face.  Or perhaps the second most horrible thing: the death of your child being the first.  This family has surely faced its share of horrors - and faced them with unquestionable grace and courage.

The commenters I linked to have suggested that Elizabeth Edwards is exploiting her cancer.  And they have suggested that her cancer could spoil the Democrats' chances to win the White House.  Both commenters try to mask their shit in the perfume of concern.

But you can't mask the stink of shit.  These commenters have no deep concern for Elizabeth Edwards or for her family or for the viability of her husband's candidacy.  If (God forbid) Bill Clinton was the spouse facing a life-threatening disease this campaign season, you can be fucking certain that these two commenters would not be suggesting that their favorite candidate couldn't be both a viable Democratic standard-bearer and a decent wife at the same time.  No, they are simply doing what political hacks do: they are exploiting Elizabeth Edwards's fatal illness to take potshots at her husband.

I recall a New Republic article back in the 2004 race, where the journalist noted that at a campaign event in New Hampshire, someone in the audience asked John Edwards to talk about how the death of his son had affected him as a candidate.  The journalist wrote that most politicians would use such a softball question as a great opportunity to "connect" with the audience; the writer was surprised and impressed that Edwards simply told the person that this was a personal matter and moved on to another question.

Reticence can indeed be a virtue.  But public figures also may have the opportunity, if they choose, to help educate by speaking out about very painful, personal issues.  Like others in public life before them - Betty Ford and Nancy Reagan with their breast cancers, Ronald Reagan with his Alzheimer's diagnosis - John and Elizabeth Edwards have spoken openly about her illness.   In interviews, they have shared, when asked, the words they used to talk to their young children about the subject of death and about Elizabeth's condition.  She has recently written a book about dealing with family tragedies which - by virtue of her fame - many, many people will read and take solace in.

God only knows how much time Elizabeth Edwards has left in this world, but it wouldn't make a difference whether her husband were a politician, or a plumber: he will carry on his responsibilities - to his work and to his family.  He will do what all partners must do in this situation - continue to live a productive, responsible life.  Cate Edwards will step up, as she has already stepped up, to help care for her brother and sister.

They are an extraordinary family.  And they are an ordinary family.  They will do what families do.

John and Elizabeth Edwards are certainly not exploiting her cancer.  That is a monstrous concept. The only people exploiting her cancer are the people who write the sort of concern-troll filth I linked to above.

I am sure people intoxicated by their own partisanship can hallucinate that John and Elizabeth Edwards are the shallowest of human beings: political creatures who believe in nothing - not bringing our troops home, not universalizing healthcare, not ending poverty, not protecting the environment, not being an example for their children of commitment to public service and of the courage to live life to the fullest even in the face of death; social climbers who are motivated solely by a self-centered dream to win the nomination and the election so they can move into the White House and have the fancy titles of President and First Lady.

In their partisan stupor, these commenters belch that Edwards couldn't be an effective Democratic standard-bearer if he has to attend to his sick partner - whose physical condition (inside and outside) these faux-concerned commenters chronicle for us like supermarket tabloids.

They fantasize an America that wouldn't elect a candidate whose partner has terminal cancer (how can he expect to get votes if he has to spend any time off the campaign trail for a family crisis?) Of course at the same time, they imagine the Edwardses are using her cancer to garner sympathy votes. Their repugnant concern-troll comments implying that Edwards should drop out reflect nothing more than the posters' obvious desire for the clearest possible glide path to the nomination for their preferred candidate.

And so they post shameful, petty comments exploiting Elizabeth Edwards's cancer even while they scurrilously charge her with exploiting it.  Of course, it's not that uncommon for people to project their own worst traits upon others.  A liar thinks everyone is a liar, a crook thinks everyone is a crook.  But its being common doesn't make it excusable.

The people writing this shit need to take a shower and sober up from their obnoxious, grotesque partisanship.  If they have an ounce of decency, an ounce of maturity, they'll stop making political hay over the cancer in the body of a politician's spouse.  It is reprehensible.  It should not be tolerated here on this site, or anywhere.

Tags: Betty Ford, Cate Edwards, Elizabeth Edwards, John Edwards, Nancy Reagan, Ronald Reagan (all tags)

Comments

64 Comments

Re: Excuse my French

I was pretty disgusted by those comments as well.  But seeing whom they came from, I didn't give it a second thought.  They both have used the "he shouldn't run because his wife has cancer" schtick before, along with Areyouready and some others.  I think it's in their talking points.

I promise you that if Bill is incapacitated by a major heart attack, they'll be here saying Hillary's a strong woman and can do this for their sake or something.  It's just how they are.  We have to ignore them and move on.

by Vox Populi 2007-10-01 10:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

Most stuff I do ignore.  Asinine partisans and trollish comments are a dime a dozen in campaign season.  But, in my opinion, this is beyond the pale, too vile to ignore.  And these are not just hit-and-run trolls, either.  These people are frequent commenters on this site; one of them has even been granted frontpage editing privileges by the site's owner.

This site is akin to a pub, and of course there's no expectation you're going to like everyone in the place, you can just ignore the loudmouths, the jerks.  But when people start smearing shit on the walls - that can't be ignored.  They need to sober up.

by Rob in Vermont 2007-10-02 04:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

If those are talking points, they are absolutely awful.  I mean, when is that we attack Democrats that have a spouse with a dying disease?  After reading this, just disgusting.

by iamready 2007-10-02 10:39AM | 0 recs
Excellent diary

What you wrote needed to be written and your diary is in the same vein as when Elizabeth Edwards engaged Ann Coulter on Hardball.

It's about decency.

Some people have it and some people don't.

Their comments crossed a line.

I'm glad you wrote it.

by merbex 2007-10-02 09:25AM | 0 recs
thanks

by Rob in Vermont 2007-10-02 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

I can't see the comments, they must be hidden or something.  Anyway, I don't think they are exploiting her cancer- I don't think she even mentions it unless asked.  It comes up so rarely, I even forget she has it at times, so I don't think they are making it an issue in the campaign- certainly not one they are exploiting.

by reasonwarrior 2007-10-02 11:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

unhide your comments in your profile.  the comments are there and are terrible.

by iamready 2007-10-02 11:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

I can't find anywhere in my profile to do that.

by Sean Robertson 2007-10-03 05:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

Perhaps it is only available to so-called 'trusted users.'  Try 'Review Hidden Comments' in the side-bar.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 05:57AM | 0 recs
The comments are not terrible

As much as I may respect John Edwards, his personal ambition does not trump the overriding importance of a Democrat winning the White House in 2008.

There is no margin for error. We cannot elect a Republican and continue the Bush neocon war policy. We cannot appoint one, two, or three more Alitos and Roberts to the Supreme Court. We cannot have four more years of a Justice Department that ignores civil rights and actively tries to undermine minority voting. We just can't.

The fact that John Edwards could be pulled off the campaign trail at any time -- next week, next month, October 2008 -- is a serious concern for the Democratic Party. It could cost us an otherwise winnable election. Sorry if Edwards fans don't like the truth.

by hwc 2007-10-02 11:33AM | 0 recs
Re: The comments are not terrible

hwc, how you stated that is disgusting.  we are better than that.  going after elizabeth edwards with uncurable cancer.  yes, disagree with her poliltical viewpoints, i do in some degree, but not go after her because of her illness.  sorry, it reads disgusting.  jmho

by iamready 2007-10-02 11:51AM | 0 recs
Re: The comments are not terrible

I really shouldnt even bother responding to a comment like this, but:

What gives Bill Clinton special immunity from being hit by a bus?  Or a stroke of lightning?  God forbid (love the man) he has another heart issue following his recent bypass?

None of those things concern me when deciding on Hillary as a candidate.  Nor should they.

We all die, we all get sick, we're all human.

by BWasikIUgrad 2007-10-02 11:52AM | 0 recs
Re: The comments are not terrible

This is a slimy line of attack and I think less of you for making it.  Don't dig the hole any deeper.

by Steve M 2007-10-02 12:05PM | 0 recs
I never thought of that

What if Edwards has to take a week or a month off from campaigning in October 2008?  What if he has to cut his campaigning in half in the fall of '08 to shuttle back and forth to North Carolina?

That would pose an issue that I think Democrats have a right - a responsibility - to consider before nominating John Edwards.

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-02 12:12PM | 0 recs
Re: I never thought of that

Explain to me how that would hurt democrats from an electoral standpoint?  

by HSTruman 2007-10-02 12:14PM | 0 recs
It is simple really

Not campaigning during an election season isn't a good thing.  It is a bad thing.  If you lose campaign time you lose votes.

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-02 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: I never thought of that

There are only 60-some days of campaigning between the nominating convention and election day in 2008. Each of those days on the campaign trail is vital to the election chances in 50 different state electoral college races.

Three days in Ohio or three days in Florida could be the difference between winning and losing the election.

by hwc 2007-10-02 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: I never thought of that

Just to be clear, your contention is that it would hurt John Edwards electorally if he had to take time away from a general election campaign to care for his hypothetically dying wife?  

I think that is a deeply flawed argument that misjudges the almost certain public reaction to such an occurence.  

Additionally, you've insinuated in many of your comments that your real problem is that Edwards still campaigning constitutes "greed" or "arrogance" on his part.  Given that he and his wife have jointly decided to continue the campaign, that strikes me as pretty grotesque on your part.  I notice you're not trying to defend those statements.

Sheesh, I'm not an Edwards supporter and this is crystal clear to me.  Just stop this BS and get back to talking about why your preferred candidate is best prepared to advance a progressive agenda.  There's just no need for this kind of discourse.

by HSTruman 2007-10-02 12:46PM | 0 recs
Re: I never thought of that

I didn't say anything about greed and arrogance - don't put words in my mouth.

I understand why the Edwards are continuing to campaign. I have not faulted them for their decision.

by hwc 2007-10-02 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: I never thought of that

Bill Clinton has extensive heart problems, he even had a quadruple bipass a couple years ago.  Should we fear a Hillary nomination for that reason?

by Vox Populi 2007-10-02 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: The comments are not terrible

Candidly, your defense here doesn't make any sense.  First, other posters are correct to note that NONE OF US can control when/if members of our families get sick or even die.  If anything, the Edwards' grace in handling an incredibly difficult situation tends to show, from my vantage point, that their family is better prepared to handle such a terrible tragedy than are most.  Second, you seem to be implying that it would HURT John's chances of winning an election if he had to attend to his family.  In addition to being a rather cynical observation, it also strikes me as intuitively wrong.  The GOP is vile, no doubt, but if they attack Edwards at such a moment his stock would be improved.  Most people, mercifully, actually DO look favorably on husbands caring for their wives.  

Oh, and just to be clear -- I'm not even supporting Edwards for the nomination.  I just think that both he and his wife are honorable people who don't deserve to be insulted by comments like those you posted.  

by HSTruman 2007-10-02 12:12PM | 0 recs
I didn't read the comments you refer to

So I can only say that I think people will look at a candidate and look at the whole candidate and all their circumstances and all their traits and abilities before making a decision.  Some will factor in Mrs. Edwards cancer.  Some will not.

Of those that factor it in, some will factor it in negatively, and some will factor it in positively (as a show of charactor as it relates to staying in the race, etc.) to their view of John Edwards candidacy and ability to be President.

The people who do factor it in, either positively, or negatively, have a right to discuss the political aspects of it on a political blog.  Again, I didn't see the comments, so I don't know if they crossed aline or not.  But your posts suggests an aggression on your part and an attempt to shout people down who would discuss the political ramifications of the Edwards family, and Mrs. Edwards cancer, as it relates to John's candidacy.

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-02 12:09PM | 0 recs
Re: I didn't read the comments you refer to

Perhaps you should read the comments.  They're over the line and have NOTHING to do with legitimate discourse.  Anyone can, of course, say what they want -- but it doesn't mean their speach should be condoned.  

by HSTruman 2007-10-02 12:14PM | 0 recs
Re: I didn't read the comments you refer to

dp,

the comments are over the line, horrible.  unhide the comments in your profile to read them.  again, why are we going after dems and their spouses with terminal cancer?  the comments were horrible.

by iamready 2007-10-02 12:59PM | 0 recs
I pray that Elizabeth Edwards lives to be 100

I would love nothing better than to see Elizabeth Edwards live a very long, very happy life.

Howver, the reality is that only half of Stage IV breast cancer patients live three years and only one fifth live five years. It is incurable.

Since we have as many as half dozen very strong potential nominees, I think we have to consider the reality of one of the nominees being forced into a restricted campaign schedule and/or limited in the attention that could be devoted to issues like getting out of Iraq, rebuilding our crumbling foreign policy, or passing universal health care during the first term in the White House.

Could a health crisis affect any of our candidates? Sure. But, none of them go into the race with similar odds.

by hwc 2007-10-02 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: I pray that Elizabeth Edwards lives to be 100

Stop the concern trolling.  It's sick.  Just stop.

by Steve M 2007-10-02 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: I pray that Elizabeth Edwards lives to be 100

This is laughable.  You are doing a 360 because the comments, your's, were out for people to read and judge on display?  When above your comments were cold as ice?  I don't buy it.  Concern trolling at its worst.  Just let it go, you have said and conveyed what you feel and think.

by iamready 2007-10-02 01:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

In 2004, we nominated a candidate who had within the past 12 months overcome cancer himself. These people weren't making these arguments then (I hope).

I propose that every time Clinton supporters make this dispicable argument, everyone who is offended donate $5 bucks to Edwards. Since he'll get matching, its a 10-dollar donation. That should either turn their loathsome attacks into a benefit for Edwards or lead whoever is encouraging them to do this to recover a bit of their dignity.

by desmoulins 2007-10-02 12:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

The survival rates for prostate cancer and Stage IV breast cancer are not comparable.

The other candidate in the race this year who has serious health concerns is Grandpa Fred, who has non-Hodgkins lymphoma. I believe that he will eventually be forced to release his complete medical records.

by hwc 2007-10-02 12:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

I propose that every time Clinton supporters make this dispicable argument

I'm certainly no Edwards supporter, but I think these comments about EE are way, way over the line. It's not even a close call.  However, please don't attribute these vile statements to "Clinton supporters".  Put the responsibility on the one or two people who keep saying these vile things. The broad brush isn't necessary or accurate.

by Denny Crane 2007-10-02 08:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

to everyone who wants hwc and andrew to stop- I say let them continue. It's better to know who you are talking to and what they represent rather than bury your heads in the sand about who they are. this is the nature of clintonian politics. look for more of it in the coming years.

by bruh21 2007-10-02 12:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

no.  look to end it starting in Iowa.

by iamready 2007-10-02 01:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

But I like Hillary, hence why I want them to cut it out.

by Steve M 2007-10-02 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

Hillary is known for this kind of attach against those she sees as her enemies. there are a lot of good things about her, but there are also the bad. if you want her, you will get both. I don't really understand ignoring the bad. what do you think mark penn, hwc's hero, is about?

by bruh21 2007-10-02 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

My hope would be that this thread does not devolve into partisan back-and-forth. Look, I know Bill Clinton was certainly no boyscout and  in the 2000 primary his campaign may well have demagogued the Social Security issue to scare seniors about deficit-hawk Paul Tsongas, but he never made an issue of Tsongas's health, even though in that case the health issue involved the candidate himself, not his spouse.  Had Tsongas been elected, he would, in fact, have died in office.  The bogus concern of hwc's is that if Mrs. Edwards's health - not Mr. Edwards - took a turn for the worse during the campaign, he could be too distracted to be electable. And if Mrs. Edwards's health holds up long enough to deny hwc that scenario, but she rather takes a turn for the worse during his presidency, then hwc posits a new scenario wherein Edwards could become too distracted to be a good president with all the hard issues he'll face during his first term in office.  As if these times are so much tougher than the Cold War, post-Watergate days, when Betty Ford had her mastectomy weeks after her husband took office.  Does hwc think he ought to have resigned right then, for the good of the country, lest he become too distracted?  Abe Lincoln's wife had very bad mental illness.  Those were arguably rather tough years for our nation.  Was Lincoln too distracted to be a good president?

by Rob in Vermont 2007-10-02 03:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

I am not making a partisan argument. If one is going to support a candidate, my point to Steve is to take the good with the bad.

by bruh21 2007-10-02 03:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

Stripped of any context, the phrase "the nature of Clintonian politics" could be positive or negative, could be partisan or not. In this particular context it sounded negative and partisan. But I'm glad you're back, bruh! It's a pleasure to be arguing with someone about whether or not he's being partisan (or drifting off-topic) rather than arguing with someone who's gone way past partisanship into the realm of stinking assholery.

(By the way, I meant 1992 of course, not 2000.)

by Rob in Vermont 2007-10-02 05:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

[quote]...but he never made an issue of Tsongas's health[/quote]

You are missing the point, here. It was the Edwards campaign that injected the issue into the race with Elizabeth Edwards' fundraising video last week.

by hwc 2007-10-02 03:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

Don't try to justify, you're just making yourself look like more of an ass.  I suppose it was all John Kerry's fault for putting his military service "at issue" in the first place.

The way you keep digging in your heels and insisting that Elizabeth Edwards is "fair game" is just so appalling I can't find words for it.

by Steve M 2007-10-02 04:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

I stopped reading the comments.

We are all Democrats, well at least I'd like to think so. You Hillary people's attack on Elizabeth Edwards does not pass the Do You Stink Test. It isn't anywhere near as big an issue as her courage.

by misscee 2007-10-02 03:56PM | 0 recs
Damn straight

It's a sad day for MyDD when we've got trolls like this posting on the front page.

by McSnatherson 2007-10-02 04:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Damn straight

You are calling hwc a TROLL now?  Shame on you.  I may not agree with his or your opinion on all things, but I would not call you a troll.  Unless you engage in these types of personal attacks against fellow posters.  

by georgep 2007-10-03 12:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Damn straight

Yes, I am. And FYI, I'm not calling him (?) a troll because I disagree with him, as you rather disingenuously imply. I'm calling him a troll because he effing well is. A concern troll, to be precise. The kinds of comments he made are simply inexcusable, period. I'm sorry if you've got a problem with people pointing that out.

by McSnatherson 2007-10-03 01:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Damn straight

Did you read what he wrote?  And souvarine?  I know that Clinton supporters, most, do not think this and I am not lumping them in a bowl, but what hwc wrote was dispictable.  Don't take up for this behaviour.  The only shame is on the persons writing this about Elizabeth Edwards.  This type of politics, not for me.  What is next?  Talking about wanting him BC dead since he had heart surgery?  This is nasty politics at its best, no wonder people don't trust the system to change.  We have to read shit like this on the boards.

by iamready 2007-10-03 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

We should just be glad we're not running a candidate with polio or something.  What a disaster that would be!

by Junior Bug 2007-10-02 05:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

Actually, FDR shows how much progress we have made on this subject. FDR was not elected as a polio patient. He hid the effects completely. in everybody's mind he was completely recovered, unaffected and stronger then ever. Had people know his real state it doubtful he would've been nominated, let alone elected.

Same with JFK.

Anyway just some history as it's completely unrelated as EE is a not the candidate. Personal tragedies will, unfortuneatly, always happen. John Edwards is a level headed man who has dealt with a horrible personal tragedy before. Both are making a great sacrifice and we should commend them for it.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 01:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

At the risk of spamming this thread, I feel I need to again point out that these nasty comments about Mrs. Edwards aren't coming from Hillary Clinton herself, from "Clintonian politics" or from "you Hillary people". They came from exactly two people, and you've had several Clinton supporters agreeing with this diary, just as I do.  

Let's keep our eye on the ball.  The attacks on Mrs. Edwards were wrong, and we all know it.  Period. Don't blame all Clinton supporters for this.

by Denny Crane 2007-10-02 08:47PM | 0 recs
The Whole World Is Not

.... like a big political football. We can only make a prayer for Elizabeth Edwards, and that is all. She is obviously a very brave person. With something like this, you have to go one day at a time. That's all any of us have anyway. We get just one day at a time.

by blues 2007-10-02 10:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

I personally don't find the EE cancer argument very compelling or interesting.  There are many reasons most Democrats don't support Edwards, and EEs cancer is nowhere near those many other issues.  If anything, that story helped humanize Edwards some (although the immediate fundraising letter was over the top, I thought.)   Of course, on the other hand, there should be no argument from Edwards supporters (as I have seen made several times) that a particular harsh and dismissive comment from EE should not lead to a strong reaction from Clinton (or Obama) supporters because she has cancer.  I think the whole cancer issue should not be part of the discussion, period.    

by georgep 2007-10-03 12:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

Are you saying someone's defended a political argument Elizabeth Edwards made, on the basis of her having cancer? Or are you just saying you've seen people who feel sorry for her because of her illness, and tend to be overly protective of her? I haven't noticed that, but I wouldn't be surprised - it sounds like human nature, the good side of human nature.  But that side of nature is, of course, not what this diary was about.

George, although I did not tag this diary as "meta", the subject here very much involves the atmosphere of this blog. As I said in comments, this blog is like a pub.  You expect you'll run into people you think are jerks, but you also expect some minimal level of decency.  In a real pub, there doesn't have to actually be a posted rule that says "Don't smear shit on the walls" for people to know such an act would be outrageous.  Likewise, there need not be a specific rule prohibiting denizens of our "pub" from making political hay of the cancer in the body of politician's spouse, as in the comments I linked to. There need not be a specific rule because the filthiness of it should be obvious, in my opinion (and apparently in the opinion of those who rec'ed this diary and most who commented in it.)  

You are someone who usually has a lot to say, and very strong opinions, on the subject of civility on MyDD.

You haven't really addressed that in this comment, you've addressed only the political merits of hwc's & Teresa's & dp's viewpoints.  You seem taken aback when folks call them out for engaging in (in our opinion) a particularly ugly, repulsive brand of partisan attack masked as concern - commonly referred to as "concern trolling".

I had hoped you yourself would strongly condemn such comments, because I think your voice carries a lot of weight around here, particulary amongst Clinton supporters.  

Do you consider the comments I linked to, to be within the bounds of civility on MyDD? Personally, I think such comments are repugnant enough to be cause for a warning from the proprietors of the "pub".  

by Rob in Vermont 2007-10-03 04:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

I think EE is fair game when she makes some very strong (some would call them outrageous) comments about the other candidates.  I found some of them rather ridiculous (i.e. when she critiques the other campaigns basically as mere substance-free vanity campaigns.)  I have read more than once that someone who takes her to task for a rebuttal is told to stop "attacking" her because of her cancer.  

I don't particularly care for anyone's personal stuff to become an issue, and I feel that Edwards made a very big mistake for doing so with this.  Sending out that fundraising letter was IMHO cynical.  

All that said, yes, I agree in this case that on the flipside her cancer should not come in as a negative for Edwards' campaign per se.  Comments aimed at making EE's cancer a negative issue should not be made.  There are tons of issues to hit Edwards on, this is not one of those issues.  

by georgep 2007-10-03 08:16AM | 0 recs
for our edification, care to provide

the links or quotes of where an Edwards supporter said that disagreeing with Elizabeth Edwards is wrong because of her illness?

by edgery 2007-10-03 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

In the past, yours has been a forceful voice against incivility; but in this instance, you come across as rather clinical, and begrudging. Even when you finally get around to saying these comments are out-of-bounds, you toss in a gratuitous partisan swipe in the last sentence. I wish you'd taken off your partisan hat on this occasion.  Disappointing.

But I'm glad at least a couple Clinton supporters did drop in and unequivocably condemn the remarks.  I'd hoped to have seen more - there are obviously quite a few enthusiastic Clinton supporters on this site (who are prolific commenters). Because this isn't about who made the vile comments or who they were made against. It's not about who any of us are supporting in the election. It's simply about the vileness of the comments.

Now, you have interjected something about an "immediate" fundraising letter being "over the top" and "cynical". Why do you say that? I have only the vaguest recollection of a fundraising letter - this was after their press conference about the cancer returning?  As I say, I don't clearly remember it.  But I can well imagine there was one.  Why on earth would you consider this cynical?

Look, suppose someone, let's call her Jill, has some cause she and her husband are committed to.  Her husband is a doctor and he wants to build and run a clinic in some very poor country. It's a very expensive project, but they have compiled a list of lots of friends and supporters willing to donate to the cause. From time to time they send out fundraising appeals. One day, Jill learns some horrible news: her breast cancer that was in remission has returned, and is incurable.  They announce the news to their supporters, who of course are heartbroken and wonder whether the couple will continue their project.  They announce they are still very much committed to going forward with it. They send out a letter to their supporters to say this. It includes a fundraising appeal. This is a time when many supporters might want to send flowers, cards, well-wishes, which of course would be appreciated, but continued funding in support of their project is really the thing they'd be most grateful for.

What is cynical about that?  Cynical would be if someone else, for their own purposes (perhaps they want to poach supporters for their own project), tried to put out the word that it was "wrong" and "selfish" for Jill's husband to continue with this project, considering Jill's condition - or that the two of them were exploiting her cancer.  

by Rob in Vermont 2007-10-03 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

I think what you are doing here is not 100% right.  I am not involved in this issue, have never spoken about Elizabeth Edwards' cancer.  Yet, you go on that attack against me.  I guess if that makes you feel any better, but I think that is actually the disappointing aspect for me in this diary.  I am just a poster like anyone else here.  I have never singled you out for not speaking up about all the vile attacks that have been levelled against Clinton on this site from one "of your own."   It is a silly exercise, but I guess you decide how you want to act, who you want to "go after."   I can take it, don't worry about it.  

by georgep 2007-10-03 04:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

oh, brother.  if you can not see or understand what was written as vile and totally across the line, then people now know.  and the diarist called you out, because you are a Clinton supporter and acknowledged you to be one of the best level headed ones on here, that is a sign of respect, even if he disagree with your position.  But now, this reaction?  Are you that partisian that you don't understand what was posted was across the line?  Damn, there comes a time when enough is just that, enough.

by iamready 2007-10-03 06:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

Cut it out, icebergslim.  I am not talking with you here, and you certainly have said some very vile things in the past (part of why you were banned from here.)  

by georgep 2007-10-03 06:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

i am talking about you taking up for statements that were clearly over the line.  and if you have issue with icebergslim, why not contact that poster directly.

by iamready 2007-10-03 07:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

I in NO WAY have "taken up" for statements.  That is your garbage interpretation which is clearly over the line, icebergslim.

by georgep 2007-10-03 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

whatever.  your comments speak for themselves and you have resolved into supporting hwc for those horrible comments.  and if you have an issue with icebergslim, why don't you contact the poster?

by iamready 2007-10-03 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

"Attack" against you?  George. Please. I said I was disappointed in you.  If you accused me of being patronizing, well, that would be one thing. But attacking you?  How?

I was completely civil to you. I established why I was disappointed in you by being highly complimentary to you - saying that you are a person whose voice carries a lot of weight around here, and who has spoken very forcefully for civility on MyDD.  Those are good things.  You can only be disappointed in someone who you respect, right?

You are a prolific commenter, a prolific diarist, and one of a handful of members who has been granted front-page editing rights as a candidate supporter, because you're such a strong advocate for Sen. Clinton.  George, you are a personality here on MyDD.  I'm not. I'm just a very occasional commenter, and a very very very occasional diarist.

So I expected (based on past performance) more from you than you delivered here, and I said so. Is that such a big deal?

The thing about saying someone has "attacked" you is that it's a quick way to shut down dialogue.  Look, you can act hyper-sensitive and sniffle that I've "attacked" you, or you can act hyper-tough-guy and say "I can take it" - or you can just stop the hyperbolics - and continue the dialogue.

Again, I ask you, politely:  What is it about the fundraising letter - which you introduced into this dialogue - which you find cynical?

Is the analogy that I presented not apt, in your opinion?

by Rob in Vermont 2007-10-03 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

hwc, brought and put this issue of Elizabeth Edward's health, with souvarine and put it on the table.  I am amazed that you are taking up for this behaviour.  What is it?  If it benefit you it is OK?  Did you not read what these individuals wrote?  I am done.  If you are condoning it, you are just as bad as they are.

by iamready 2007-10-03 10:51AM | 0 recs
It's all Greek to Me!

I agree with you that the comments made by a few of the Hillary supporters are outrageous. And that one of them is a frontpager here is troubling. But it seems that this site has shifted in it's policies of what and what is not acceptable. Apparently frontpagers and Hillary supporters have lots of pull and leeway here. Much of the comments coming from them are contrary to civil discourse and actual candidate support. I have to distance myself from these people because I just don't believe that this is all about Hillary at all costs, especially when that cost is the heart of our Democratic party. With many, support for Hillary is blind. They don't care that she supports and agrees with Lieberman on Iran and they don't mind using the lowest form of public discourse attacking John and Elizabeth Edwards, or Barack Obama for that matter. And conversely, when anyone brings up anything bad about Hillary Clinton they are pounced upon and reviled with hateful and disgusting or demeaning language that never seems to get a look from the Administrators of this site.

I took a break posting because the level of discourse became so low that I found it hard to support the same candidate as many on here. And then Hillary voted for Lieberman and said she wouldn't end the war by 2013 and that just through me down. Couple that with the newest polls that Hillary is leading in a large way and I really think that our party is in big trouble. Dissent and disagreement are the hallmark of a democracy. That we are able to do so civilly and with common respect is also a hallmark of that democracy. But the way the Hillary supporters here would have it dissent is a republican talking point or we are just idiots or haven't read the Constitution or don't understand our own government. They take away from the civility and respect our party should embrace and I distinguish and separate myself from them publicly.

And I support the candidate that will REALLY end this war.

by DoIT 2007-10-03 03:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Excuse my French

Excellent diary, Rob.  It was a thoughtful comment.

I'm going to let Elizabeth respond to the self-righteous commenters who have taken it upon themselves to wring their hands and wonder what if Edwards has to take a week or a month off from campaigning in October 2008?  

"You don't get to judge me because you think you know exactly what you would do if you had my disease. I want to be really clear: you don't know. And if the sun always shines on you-- and I pray it does-- you will never know."

And I believe the same goes for John Edwards.  You don't get to judge him because you think you know what he would do.

by KimPossible 2007-10-03 04:37AM | 0 recs
Clinton Derangement Syndrome

If you are HRC supporter, you often have Clinton Derangement Syndrome.  It isn't enough to support HRC, you must really prove your love by trashing all other candidates.

it sucks .

by dataguy 2007-10-03 02:29PM | 0 recs

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