Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

Here is a poll you won't hear Obama supporters talking about.  One way to put this into perspective is to imagine that Obama is only four points away from Hillary in a New York state poll. Such a revelation would have Obama supporters dancing in the streets, or at least all over mydd.com

It is also important to remember that Hillary only recently visited Illinois to begin campaigning and fundraising. Obama headed right to New York to fundraise and campaign, after he announced he was running for President.  

Another surprise is that Hillary and Obama split the Independent vote 50/50.  

I realize this is just one poll, but it certainly calls attention to the state of Illinois and what many people just took for granted, ie:  That Obama would stay well ahead in his "home" state.  Is this a reflection of Obama's popularity, or lack thereof, as a Senator for Illinois?  Are the Rezko stories hurting him in his own state?  

And where is Obama's "fundraising bump"?  

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/07/ sweet_blog_special_clinton_in_1.html

WASHINGTON--White House hopeful Barack Obama does not have a lock on the primary in his home state, according to a new American Research Group Illinois poll. The ARG poll--600 telephone interviews of likely Democratic voters and 509 people who said they were Democrats and 91 who said they were Independents--was taken between July 6-9. That period includes all the upbeat publicity Obama gained in the Illinois press coming in first in the money primary. In Illinois, a voter declares a party preference on primary day. Margin of error plus or minus 4 points.

Overall, It's 37 percent for Obama and 33 percent for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.). In a breakdown, it's 39 percent of Democrats for Obama and 34 percent for Clinton. Among Independents, it is an even split--26 percent each. The gender gap persists in Illinois: Obama leads Clinton 41 percent to 24 percent among men, while Clinton leads Obama 40 percent to 33 percent among women.

ARG polled Illinois in January; in this July edition former Sen. John Edwards (D- N.C.) doubled his support from five to ten percent.

On the GOP side in Illinois, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani leads at 30 percent in Illinois to 21 percent for former Sen. Fred Thompson (R-Tenn.), who is poised to jump in the Republican primary. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is at 12 percent and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney is at 11 percent.

For the poll highlights ... read on.

Presidential Primary Preference:
Illinois
Likely Democratic Primary Voters Jan 2007 Jul 2007

Biden 3% 1%
Clark 1% 1%
Clinton 30% 33%
Dodd 2% 1%
Edwards 5% 10%
Gravel - -
Kerry 2% ni
Kucinich 1% 1%
Obama 36% 37%
Richardson 3% 4%
Vilsack 2% ni
Undecided 16% 12%

Preference by party:
Illinois
Likely Democratic Primary Voters Democrats (85%) Independents (15%)

Biden 1% -
Clark 1% 2%
Clinton 34% 26%
Dodd 1% -
Edwards 7% 27%
Gravel - -
Kucinich 1% -
Obama 39% 26%
Richardson 4% 2%
Undecided 12% 17%

About this Survey -
Survey Sponsor: American Research Group, Inc.

The American Research Group has been conducting surveys of voters since 1985.

Sample Size: 600 completed telephone interviews among a random sample of likely Democratic primary voters living in Illinois (509 Democrats and 91 independent voters).

Sample Dates: July 6-9, 2007

Margin of Error: ± 4 percentage points, 95% of the time, on questions where opinion is evenly split.

Question Wording:

If the 2008 Democratic presidential preference primary were being held today between (names rotated) Joe Biden, Wesley Clark, Hillary Clinton, Christopher Dodd, John Edwards, Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich, Barack Obama, and Bill Richardson, for whom would you vote?

Would you say that you definitely plan to vote in the 2008 Democratic presidential primary, that you might vote in the 2008 Democratic presidential primary, or that you will probably not vote in the 2008 Democratic presidential primary?

Tags: ARG poll, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Illinois (all tags)

Comments

31 Comments

I think
Hillary is both New York's daughter and Illinois'
daughter.  In any event, this has to be good news for Hillary and very disappointing news for Obama.
by Regan 2007-07-11 12:24AM | 0 recs
Obama supporters sound like wingnuts

They rail against the press, say polls are meaningless or tilted towards someone else, they attack their opponents personally and they can't seem to find any weaknesses or problems with their own candidate.

by dpANDREWS 2007-07-11 04:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama supporters sound like wingnuts

That's total bullshit and you know it.  ARG is off from every other poll out there... there have been numerous posts by front pagers and others aabout their flawed LV model.  

Do you HONESTLY think that a someone with a 75% plus approval rating in Illinois is going to lose his own state?  I'd bet money he is up by at least 10 in Illinois.  

by yitbos96bb 2007-07-11 06:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama supporters sound like wingnuts

Maybe they're off, but it's not a "pro-Clinton bias" at all.  As I mention in response to post further down, in NH for example, they seem to biased towards Obama, as the the ARG Clinton lead is significantly smaller than leads she has in other polls (ARG has her up by 9, while Rasmussen poll taken at the same time has her up by 17).  In California, the latest ARG poll (in May) had her up by 9 pts., while the only concurrent poll (Survey USA) had her up by 21 pts.  In Nevada, the latest ARG (in June) had her up by 24 while only concurrent poll (Mason-Dixon) had her up by 22 -- a difference of only 2 pts.  In NJ the last ARG had her up by 14 while poll closest in time (Quinnipiac) had her up by 22.  In fact, if you look at any of the state polls on RCP (and look only at concurrent polls; otherwise its like comparing apples to oranges), there does not seem to be a pro-Clinton bias at all; if anything, there may be a slight "pro-Obama" bias to ARG if you were to average the assorted state polls.

by markt228 2007-07-11 06:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama supporters sound like wingnuts

regardless it does stretch credibility given obama's popularity to believe that hrc is even close.

by bruh21 2007-07-11 08:55AM | 0 recs
not really...

the numbers haven't changed much since their last poll in illinois.  it has to be their screen, i just can't figure it out.  the are definitely calling machine democrats, and machine democrats haven't heard (yet) that they aren't supporting clinton...

by bored now 2007-07-11 11:50AM | 0 recs
Correction
I state in the narrative that Obama and Hillary split the Independent vote 50/50.  Bad wording.
They each get the same amount of support from Independents.  The split among Obama, Hillary and Edwards is even more interesting, as they each get the same amount of support from Independents.
And Edwards doubled his support overall, from five to ten percent since January.
by Regan 2007-07-11 12:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

ARG have showed Obama 7-12% behind where other polls show him in nearly every state.  Maybe they are right - but. I'm not trusting them at this time due to how far off they are from others.

by gb1437a 2007-07-11 03:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

Not necessarily true.  Accdg to Real Clear Politics, in New Hampshire, for example, the latest ARG poll has Clinton ahead of Obama by 9 points, while the three previous (and mostly concurrent) polls have Clinton ahead by 17, 18 and 14 pts. while the RCP avg. is 12.6.  

by markt228 2007-07-11 05:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

Of all of ARG's polls, I'd trust them the most in NH. They started in NH and have a good track record there.

by clarkent 2007-07-11 05:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

They seem to want to use the same LV model everywhere instead of tailoring to specific places.  THe more polls they do the closer they tend to get to the rest of the field.  

by yitbos96bb 2007-07-11 06:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

The three other polls I mention above are Rasmussen, Suffolk and CNN, respectively.  The Rasmussen & Suffolk ones were taken at basically the same time as the ARG one, and yet Obama does best in the ARG, so I don't think ARG necessarily has a "Clinton bias".

by markt228 2007-07-11 05:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

well...

because illinois has no party registration and a good chunk of democratic primary voters are machine driven, polling may not be the indicator you'd think.  i'd be nervous just be the identification (509 Democrats and 91 independent voters) -- how the hell did they determine that?

gotta laugh at your tag line.  does anyone really believe that hillary will end the war???  really???

by bored now 2007-07-11 03:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

"509 Democrats and 91 independent voters -- how the hell did they determine that?"

Probably historical voting patterns in the state.  Unlike in New Hampshire, in most states registered Independents usually don't bother to vote in partisan primaries in large numbers.  A clip of about 18% to 20% of Independent voting share in Democratic primaries is just about right for most states.  

by georgep 2007-07-11 03:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

last time i used them, they didn't have voter history.  so they are relying on people to tell them they plan to vote (and, i guess, how they view themselves).  i'm surprised that they broke it down by democrat and independent; that's not an accurate or even useful breakdown.

by bored now 2007-07-11 04:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

I don't believe Illinois has registered Independents.  I know you pick your ballot at voting time... I could pick a GOP one if I wanted.  

by yitbos96bb 2007-07-11 06:12AM | 0 recs
illinois actually does accept partisan...

registration IF you declare when you first register, never move, and the registrar's office where you registered has that option in their voter file.  having said that, it's very rare (maybe 1 in 5,000 -- i'd have to open up a ill voter file to get the actual statistic).  but it's by no means impossible to declare oneself an independent.

by bored now 2007-07-11 08:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

I've thought the same thing about all the ARG polls - they have similar numbers for the Iowa caucuses, which historically have very low turnout for independents.

by clarkent 2007-07-11 05:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

I live in Chicago and while I support Edwards there isn't any way that Clinton wins the Illinois primary.  Obama has the support and machine backing of Daley and has the majority of progressive/independent Democrats in Chicago backing him as well.  Also, since Chicago is the source of the majority of primary voters whoever wins the city will most likely win the primary.  With both the institutional and progressive leaders behind Obama, I just don't see how Hillary comes even close.

by minvis 2007-07-11 05:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

I don't think anybody believes that Clinton can win Illinois.  The issue here is that the race is close at all.  This should be a 20+ point blowout for Obama by any measure, given that that is his home state.  Anything under a double-digit leads in someone's home state (i.e. Edwards in NC, Richardson in NM) can be considered somewhat of  a bad sign for the candidate.   Of course, the same caveats as usual apply:  Polls are snapshots of the "here and now."  How much are Obama's fundraising successes factored in here?  This is one poll, we need more to see a trend, etc.  

by georgep 2007-07-11 05:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

The point you miss though George is the complaints about ARG are valid there first few polls in states have been way off the field... Th more they poll, the more they tweak the state model and it get better and closer to a working LV model.  Given they've done two polls, I would bet $1000 if the election was held now, Obama would win by at least 10%.

by yitbos96bb 2007-07-11 06:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

(I'm reposting my comment from above, as I think it relates to this):

Maybe they're off, but it's not a "pro-Clinton bias" at all.  As I mention in response to post further down, in NH for example, they seem to biased towards Obama, as the the ARG Clinton lead is significantly smaller than leads she has in other polls (ARG has her up by 9, while Rasmussen poll taken at the same time has her up by 17).  In California, the latest ARG poll (in May) had her up by 9 pts., while the only concurrent poll (Survey USA) had her up by 21 pts.  In Nevada, the latest ARG (in June) had her up by 24 while only concurrent poll (Mason-Dixon) had her up by 22 -- a difference of only 2 pts.  In NJ the last ARG had her up by 14 while poll closest in time (Quinnipiac) had her up by 22.  In fact, if you look at any of the state polls on RCP (and look only at concurrent polls; otherwise its like comparing apples to oranges), there does not seem to be a pro-Clinton bias at all; if anything, there may be a slight "pro-Obama" bias to ARG if you were to average the assorted state polls.

by markt228 2007-07-11 06:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

I doubt it would be that high (I think Clinton has huge advantages over Obama in many demographics nationally, which also translates in Illinois as well) but he would win the state, no question.  But what I stated was that if Obama were actually a juggernaut ready to take on the "quasi-incumbent" in the nation, he should win his home state by 20+ points.   He does not, even in the best case scenario, which, in a way, shows the monumental task he has ahead of him nationally.  

by georgep 2007-07-11 06:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Almost Even With Obama in Illinois

Hillary will not win Illinois unless Barack is out by then.  Obama has a huge base of support, and at any rate she doesn't appear to be focused on it.  She will not carry New Hampshire, either.  She is not well liked there as she is seen as partisan and dividing.  ARG actually mentioned this earlier this year.  If Obama is to win this thing, he needs to drop resources into Florida and break down her firewall.

by Todd Bennett 2007-07-11 06:26AM | 0 recs
New Hampshire Poll Averages

At OpenLeft.com, Chris Bowers currently shows the New Hampshire poll average as follows:

34.8        Clinton
20.7        Obama
12.2        Edwards
8.5%        Richardson

RealClearPolitics.com New Hampshire poll average is as follows:

34.2         Clinton
21.6         Obama
12            Edwards
8.6           Richardson

by BigBoyBlue 2007-07-11 06:46AM | 0 recs
Re: New Hampshire Poll Averages

Yeah and I still think she will win the nomination.  Just not New Hampshire.  The state has a history of independents influencing primaries and since independents there are more likely to vote in the Democratic primary the state will got to Barack, I am very certain of it.

by Todd Bennett 2007-07-11 07:01AM | 0 recs
Barack Obama's favorability is over 70% in Ill

I live here in Illinois, this is the only poll that shows this, the only one.  So, unless collective polling shows this, I doubt it.

Finally, this is the polling place that has Hillary with a 20 point lead over Barack in SC and over Edwards (almost) in Iowa.

I seriously, doubt this poll.  Finally, Obama is over 70% approval rating in this state.  Hillary Clinton has not been back here, for the exception, of raising cash.  Period.

by icebergslim 2007-07-11 06:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Barack Obama's favorability is over 70% in Ill

The South Carolina ARG poll may be the exception to the rule (although it's hard to tell as I dont see any SC polls on RCP done at the same time as the ARG poll).  In virtually all the  state polling on RCP, the ARG polls seem to biased towards Obama if you compare to other polls done at the same time.

by markt228 2007-07-11 06:49AM | 0 recs
Illinois Conservatism Outside Of Chicago

I live in Chicago and I agree with minvis insofar that Chicago has a VERY blue Democratic machine.

However, the same cannot be said for the suburbs and the rest of the state.  Those areas are quite conservative.  

For example, while we currently have a Democratic governor, that is only a recent trend.

As such, it is no surprise that a centrist Democrat like Clinton can poll well in Illinois.  After all, it is a state that gave its electoral votes to another Clinton in both 1992 and 1996.

by BigBoyBlue 2007-07-11 06:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Illinois Conservatism Outside Of Chicago

Conservative hates clintons, so your argument falls right there.

Republicans arent going to vote for Hillary...Hillary disapproval numbers are in the 90% with conservatives.

by JaeHood 2007-07-11 07:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Illinois Conservatism Outside Of Chicago

Remember though that this is a primary not the general election.  Yes, the suburbs and downstate are more conservative, but we are talking about a primary with only Democrats voting.  The number of Democratic voters within Chicago will far outweigh the suburban and downstate democrats even more in a primary than a general election.

by minvis 2007-07-11 08:01AM | 0 recs

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