Do I understand Clinton supporters?
by ragekage, Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:04:53 AM EDT
Do I? Or don't I?
Tags: Barack Obama, Candidate, Democratic Party, Hillary Clinton, nomination, President 2008, support, unity (all tags)
Comments
Re: You supported Bush in 2000
So.
Its his vote he/she can do with it as he/she pleases.
I wouldn't hold that against the diariest .
Re: You supported Bush in 2000
I wouldn't either, but others are allowed to hold it against him/her!!
I am still mad at someone who cut me off on the 210 Freeway back in 1999... voting for Bush is much more serious =)
Why? Because Obama is DECEPTIVE.. in the same WAY
You tell me.. Is this (the below) deceptive, when many of Obama's supporters think he supports universal healthcare, or some facsimile?
http://nymag.com/news/politics/powergrid 45604
But now two months have passed since Edwards dropped out--tempus fugit!--and still no endorsement. Why? According to a Democratic strategist unaligned with any campaign but with knowledge of the situation gleaned from all three camps, the answer is simple: Obama blew it. Speaking to Edwards on the day he exited the race, Obama came across as glib and aloof. His response to Edwards's imprecations that he make poverty a central part of his agenda was shallow, perfunctory, pat. Clinton, by contrast, engaged Edwards in a lengthy policy discussion. Her affect was solicitous and respectful. When Clinton met Edwards face-to-face in North Carolina ten days later, her approach continued to impress; she even made headway with Elizabeth. Whereas in his Edwards sit-down, Obama dug himself in deeper, getting into a fight with Elizabeth about health care, insisting that his plan is universal (a position she considers a crock), high-handedly criticizing Clinton's plan (and by extension Edwards's) for its insurance mandate.
Re: Why? Because Obama is DECEPTIVE.. in the same
You might want to check out Morning Joe. Elizabeth Edwards was there and entirely debunked that story.
Re: You supported Bush in 2000
Lori, you are the Clinton supporter I sometimes reference in my reference Clinton supporters are real people and we can find common ground. You and I disagree on our candidate, but we are not dissimilar and won't let that extend towards personal animosity. I respect that deeply, and thank you.
Re: You supported Bush in 2000
Yeah! Screw you all you former Bush supporters! We don't need you to win the 2008 election...
Oh wait.
Scratch that. But hey, someone acknowledging a bad vote and trying to make it right is pretty alien to Hillary, I suppose its as alien to her supporters, too.
Re: You supported Bush in 2000
I see.
An unforgivable sin, is it not? Would you feel different about the former-Bush supporters who voted for Clinton?
So did 1/2 of America. Bush didn't
listen to the other 1/2 so perhaps emulating him isn't the best thing.
Re: Do I understand Clinton supporters?
Perhaps you should elaborate, if you'd like me to understand.
Narcissism..
People with NPD have usually had difficult stressful childhoods. They lie a LOT, but they hide it really well. They make the very worst leaders because in addition to being very good at deceiving others, they also deceive themselves. They often think they are somehow entitled to break the rules that most of us feel bound by. They view these scruples as a weakness.
In this respect, I think Bush and Obama are very similar. That is why he SHOULD NOT BE either President or Vice President.
Many people with NPD look externally very productive, but internally, they are a mess. They also leave a trail of bad interactions behind them.. They lie.. They lie a lot, but again, they are so good at it they almost always get away with it.
They never ever, admit that there is anything wrong with them.
They hide it VERY well.
Re: Narcissism..
You've decided to not support Obama because of a psychological disorder you presume he has based off of what you've gleaned from the media.
Now, sir, as a nurse, with at least a modicum of medical training, I'd have to say if I made such a diagnosis I'd be laughed out of clinical work and into administration. On what basis do you have to make such a charge? Especially that George Bush and Obama are essentially the same people. For God's sake, I could make this charge about Hillary Clinton as equally, with as much evidence as you as presented, but I would never equate her to George Bush.
Have you no shame? At long last, sir, have you no shame?
this is soooo good
I feel exact same way about McCain. I remember listening to him in 1999 and thinking, despite the fact he is a republican, he has honor. I even remember rooting for him the primary, even though I was nto gonna vote for him, cause I though that if Dem loses at least we got a decent person.
Over the last 8 years it all went down hill for him.
I still can not believe he went to baghdad and said you can go to the market without security and etc...
That was surreal.
Re: Do I understand Clinton supporters?
Great diary! My transition from Repub to Independent w/Dem lean is much the same as yours. I was not very informed on issues, and took the MSM at their word. Then I discovered the world of blogs, and started to see through BS that was being spoon fed to me every night on the 6 o'clock news.
Now I see two candidates in Senators Clinton and Obama that I would enthusiastically support in November. Like you, I'm still a little bruised at the thought that some feel my current state, Indiana, doesn't really matter. I know I'll hear even more on this if Obama ends up winning the primary here. I'm also more than a little ticked at being told that I shouldn't be allowed to vote for the Dem nominee because I'm an acknowledged Independent. I feel like they want my vote in November, just not now. I should just be a good little boy and let the parents decide who is best for me.
Anyways, I have rambled on more than I thought I would. I just wanted to say thanks for expressing a similar journey in a way I could never do.
Re: Do I understand Clinton supporters?
I don't see why it's so difficult to comprehend that it's reasonable that only the members of the party in question ought be able to select who their party nominee for an office is. If you want to be able to have a say who the democratic pary nominee is then you should have to be a member of that party. The same goes for if you want to have a say who the nominee of the republican party is. The party nomination procress is where the party members select who their nominee is. People aren't robbed of the opportunity to weigh in on the issue, they merely have to become a member of a party. If people don't want to do that then they shouldn't be able to interfere in what the party members decide. Democrats would be very happy to have your vote now as well as in November, you just need to join our party in order to have a say in selected our party's nominee. It's a pretty simple concept.
Re: Do I understand Clinton supporters?
I respect your opinion, but I still disagree. It's disingenuous to say that you don't want my vote right now, maybe later in the fall. Like it or not, the Dem party still needs to court Independents in order to win elections. If you want their buy-in for the GE, perhaps it doesn't hurt to ask for their input in the spring.
Ought?
Being as each state's Democratic Party decides for themselves who they want voting in their own elections, I find your claim of what "ought" to happen to be quite silly. If the Democrats do not like the rules they write for themselves, then they "ought" to write new ones. If they do not write new rules, perhaps that means the majority disagrees with your opinion. You "ought" to try to convince them to change their mind as compared to simply making empty declarations of What Should Be.
Ragekage...
Very good dairy, I think that sometimes we can forget that all of us are people here with real stories and backgrounds. By breaking that down the anonymous avatars and associating them with real people we can be more civil.
RECCED!
I was for Gore in 2000
against Bush in 2004, and hopeful but not enthusiastic about Kerry.
This year I hoped Gore would run, then picked Edwards based on having the most progressives policies. He dropped out and again I looked at policies -- Obama just doesn't have good enough policies for me.
Now, based on US history from 1992 to 2008, I am inclined to give more weight to my ability to judge candidates than yours.
If I am "a bit cynical, bitter, and disaffected", maybe it's because I've been paying attention.
Re: Do I understand Clinton supporters?
I completely understand that feeling of bewilderment over how people can support and be passionate about a certain candidate. For a long time, I couldn't figure out why people were so excited about Obama. I don't think of myself as a cynic. I consider myself a realist. But, admittedly, there must be something profoundly cynical and jaded in my personality which causes me to shake my head in exasperation whenever I hear Obama's message of idealism. My natural reaction is to scoff at it and say, "He's just a politician like all the others." But I'm trying to become more open-minded about it. And I know a lot of people have other reasons for backing him.
At this point, I have difficulty imagining how I'll become enthusiastic about supporting him, which is disturbing, since I agree with you that he'll win the nomination. I'm hoping there will be a lot of gracious Obama supporters around here who will do their best to gently and convincingly pull Clinton supporters into the fold. A lot of us can be rather useful. Some of us are glad to donate whatever we can and have a lot of experience making calls for candidates. You're right, it's sometimes difficult to remember that people around here are human. Thanks to the anonymity of the internet, it's easy for people to become little more than text in my mind.
By the way, I hope your daughter's mother decides to take an interest in her life. I know a lot of single mothers, but single fathers are rare. I know raising a child by oneself is incredibly difficult.
Re: Do I understand Clinton supporters?
Sigh. She needs a mom around, no doubt about it. I'd never held a kid, much less changed a diaper, made/fed a baby formula, et cetera. My God, the amount of respect I have for single parents of any ilk has shot up tremendously. Sometimes she cries and won't stop; fed, dry, well rested, but cries and all I can do is hold her and tear up myself; it feels like she misses her mom, too.
I digress. I am an Obama supporter and welcome you with open arms. Mistakes were made on both sides, but it's water under the dam. Senator Clinton is a hellacious fighter, and her supporters are, too. We can't win in November without them.
Re: Do I understand Clinton supporters?
Thanks, this gives me a much better perspective on where you are coming from, ragekage. But no, I don't think you understand Clinton supporters.
When an election turns on character, Republicans win, Democrats win on issues. Obama is consciously trying to break that cycle, and he correctly diagnoses part of the problem as stemming from the Democratic party's embrace of civil rights -- the culture wars of the '60s and '70s. But in the process he is using character attacks, and specifically the most toxic of character attacks, to compete in a Democratic primary.
Those of us who have been Democrats for a long time are very suspicious of a candidate who relies on character rather than issues to win elections. We know how that approach is fundamentally divisive and has been used to propel the proponents of a narrow set of interests into power. And we know that our interests, progressive interests, do not succeed unless they are clearly endorsed by a broad coalition of voters. We can't sneak our agenda into the White House.
But we are not cynical, bitter or disaffected. We believe that if we communicate our agenda and goals clearly to the American people we can break through the divisiveness of character issues, win elections, and change the course of our country. That distinguishes us from Republicans, who know they have to compensate for the unpopularity of their ideas, and from those to the left of the Democratic party, who distrust the American people.
Re: Do I understand Clinton supporters?
I think we Clinton supporters have every right to be bitter and angry when we see the constant barrage of negativity from the media and from Obama's campaign.
The fact that the media (and Obama supporters) are hammering on and on about Hillary's "death march" is very upsetting.
If Obama was behind by only 2 or 4% (delegates), would the media be calling for his ouster? I don't think so.
The question would be - as it should be for Hillary - "can he catch up?".
You would think that Hillary is behind 30% or 40%, like Huckabee - SHE'S NOT.
When you see that the media has decided this race by constantly potraying Hillary as some sort of slug hanging on by her claws....
it is DISGUSTING....
The more the media does this and the more Obama supporters feed into it... The more bitter and angry we become.
yes, to the tune of registering a bitter/angry vote against Obama......
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myDD - skin
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