Clinton Camp Disparages Youth Vote?

A mere week after launching Students for Hillary and touting its support among young people, top advisers to Hillary Clinton were busy in the spin room Saturday night disparaging them, claiming that Obama's supporters were young and unlikely to caucus.

Good strategy:  A week after finally setting up your campaign's organization to attract young people, tell them they won't vote anyway so their presence is irrelevant.

You can either dispute the idea that Obama has broad support among young people, or you can reinforce and disparage it, but either way you might want to make up your mind first before opening your mouth:

At least two of Hillary Clinton’s upper-echelon advisers, Mandy Grunwald and Mark Penn, were decidedly unimpressed.

“Our people look like caucus-goers,” Grunwald said, “and his people look like they are 18. Penn said they look like Facebook.”

Penn added, “Only a few of their people look like they could vote in any state.”

I have to say that I find these comments shocking, and I would expect better of any campaign that hoped to end up with our party's nomination.

First of all, people who are 18 ARE caucus-goers and, yes, young people do vote.

In 2004, young voters made up somewhere around 1/5 of the primary electorate in the early states. In Iowa, youth turnout in the caucuses quadrupled (pdf) in 2004, and 18-29 year olds constituted a larger share of the electorate [17%] than 30-44 year olds.  

In New Hampshire, young voters also increased their primary turnout (at pace with the rest of the electorate).  In three of the first primary states, youth participation in the general election increased substantially in 2004 and in 2006.

Second, let me get this straight, young voters turning out to commute to Des Moines to attend a five-hour long party convention on a Saturday night is evidence that these young people willnot turn out to caucus?  You want to run that by me again?

Third, let's leave aside that the Clinton campaign is basically on the record planning on a low youth turnout, which obviously leads one to doubt the sincerity or optimism of their efforts to do otherwise ––– a grave mistake, especially for a general election nominee.

Mark Penn's "They look like Facebook" deserves to be one of the most ridiculed strategic assertions of this campaign.

Lastly, let me deal with some of the assertions one by one.

1.  From out of state?

The Obama and Edwards campaigns specifically pledged that although out-of-state supporters would attend rallies on the day of the Dinner, only Iowa residents would be given tickets to get inside.  The Clinton campaign made no such public promise.

2.  A Young Crowd?

Mark Penn's laughably hyperbolic claim that only "a few" were of legal age to vote runs up against the observations of journalists at the event.  Also notice his lovely "in any state," referencing disparagingly that Iowa voters are able to caucus at 17.

Yes, Mark Penn, these crowds look like caucus-goers to me:

 

Tags: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Iowa caucus, jefferson-jackson dinner, President 2008, youth vote (all tags)

Comments

93 Comments

Don't worry about it

Obama should take it as a compliment that Clinton's crew even felt the need to assess the make-up of his crowd. Not so much of a slander as concerned explanation.

by General Sherman 2007-11-11 02:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't worry about it

They're just jealous. Ain't it great. About time too.

by aiko 2007-11-11 03:25PM | 0 recs
Ill translate mandy for ya

these people wont show up to caucus..

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 04:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Ill translate mandy for ya

But they come and commit significant hours to support a candidate through attending fundraisers, rallies, and volunteer?  I'll believe they won't caucus when they don't caucus.  Until then, keep touting your hopes of less people caucusing.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-11-11 05:04PM | 0 recs
Trippi said that in 04 & it worked for Dean

ooops!

uh oh!

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 05:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Trippi said that in 04 &amp

Holden, check out the facts:  youth turnout quadrupled from the previous caucus and younger caucus goers were a significant part of the caucus really for the first time.

Dean's losing was in spite of that, not because of low turnout.

Were you one of those people that blamed young people for Kerry's loss?  Even though they increase turnout by 11 points and the general population increased by only 4 points?  Even though they were the only age cohort to vote for Kerry?

Old stupid sloppy people in the party made the same calculation - Kerry lost, young people supported kerry, must have been young people's fault for not turning up.  Moronically simple - especially for those who see themselves as political professionals.

It would be like saying that because the AfAm vote is 90% dem that it was their fault for not turning up without actually considering base turnout rates, new turnout rates, and the overall size of the demographic.

To rest on the MSM simpleton "It worked for Dean - har har" just shows how little you know.

For the record, my prediction is that youth turnout in the caucus goes up again and Obama loses, and the two will have not be related as the key cause and effect.  His loss if it happens is just as likley to come from older voters leaving him as it is younger voters failing to meet the campaigns expectations.

by Orlando 2007-11-12 04:50AM | 0 recs
i dontt follow tthe media on anything...zip

i blame kerry for kerry's loss..

by holden caulfield 2007-11-12 06:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Slanders Youth Vote

Great Diary...It doesn't matter what Penn says.

It all comes down to Jan. 3, howeveve I would like every chapter of the Barackstars to get a copy of Penn's comments.

by chicagogene 2007-11-11 02:49PM | 0 recs
Yep

They'd love to hear how the Clinton campaign views the youth vote. I say send it around to all the college and university campuses.

by casperr 2007-11-11 03:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Yep

I bet young people are pissed off at Mark Penn now , where is their headquarters so he can send in a dozen roses to apologize for saying they are not likely to caucus .

by lori 2007-11-11 03:31PM | 0 recs
I've said it before

and I'll say it again. Obama's best chance in Iowa is to turn out many thousands of people who have never caucused before. And if he can pull that off, he frankly deserves to win.

I'm all for young people voting. Of course, I try to persuade the young people I know to caucus for Edwards, but I would never insult the younger voters the way Mandy Grunwald did.

by desmoinesdem 2007-11-11 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: I've said it before

I find it unbelievable that Grunwald and Penn would have made those remarks for attribution.  What could they possibly expect to gain but to tarnish some of the shine on Obama's performance and the campaign's impressive turn-out.  Does that sound like strategic thinking to you?  Maybe they were just a bit taken aback by it all.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-11-11 03:07PM | 0 recs
It especially odd

...given that the Clinton campaign has genuine strength among young voters in Iowa, at least in polling.  They do.  There is real support especially among college-age women.

Which makes disparaging them all the more dumb.

by psericks 2007-11-11 03:23PM | 0 recs
worked for Dean right?

ooooh mandy is soooo hating of young people - somebody please warn her children!

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 04:16PM | 0 recs
Having people in high places of your campaign

trashing the youth doesn't bode well for the primray or general.  

"and his people look like they are 18. Penn said they look like Facebook."

If they caucus, it really doesn't matter.  We'll teach Penn on caucus day.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-11-11 05:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Slanders Youth

How is making an observation , a " slander "?

Statistically young people tend not to make up a significant number of people that caucus ,  so how is stating a fact disparaging young people.

Even if it is not borne out by fact in the iowa cacus. How does saying Obama's supporters are young and don't caucus amount to slander and a disparaging comments.

Too much trivial stuff on this site nowadays.

by lori 2007-11-11 02:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Slanders Youth

Saying that young people do not look like caucus-goers is to state that they don't caucus.  Which is slanderous, because in fact they do.

Young people made up 17% of the caucus in 2004, a bigger chunk than the next age bracket 30-44.  How is that not significant?  

And the Clinton camp repeating memes about youth voters not showing up after they quadrupled their caucus turnout in 2004, maybe they could reward youth voters for increasing their turnout dramatically over the last two cycles?

by psericks 2007-11-11 03:13PM | 0 recs
worked for Dean!

uh...oopss...wait a minute...

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 04:18PM | 0 recs
Young people turned out great in 2004

and they voted for Kerry.

Take a look at the numbers. (via Mike Connery)

by psericks 2007-11-11 04:24PM | 0 recs
why is "one million strong"...

after 8 frigging months, still stuck at 300,000?

When the beloved Colbert - who you guys knifed -  got 1,200,000 in a week?

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 04:31PM | 0 recs
I just proved you wrong...

and you responded with a total non sequitur.

I don't think Clinton supporters should wanna get into a discussion about Facebook support --- when an anti-Clinton group has ten times as many members as Clinton does friends.

by psericks 2007-11-11 04:34PM | 0 recs
you didnt prove aything wrong...

and pal, learn what the "big words' mean - before you use them - ok?

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 07:04PM | 0 recs
The problem with Dean was not turnout

Young people turned out, they just didn't vote for Dean --- only 25% of them did, according to the CNN exit poll I quoted.  Do you dispute that?

And I pointed out that you responded with a totally unrelated comment.

by psericks 2007-11-11 07:23PM | 0 recs
thought you were talking about colbert

and i didnt see it..

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 07:45PM | 0 recs
hey! its you!

why did you disappear my comment with the fun  - not saving Obama voting riff?

What the heck iS WRONG WITH YOU?

How dare you?  Those were my words not yours.

I want them back punk!

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: hey! its you!

Why do you care about your words when you have such carelessness about the facts?

by Orlando 2007-11-12 04:53AM | 0 recs
lame-o insult

cause fascists annoy the hell outa me...

by holden caulfield 2007-11-12 06:48AM | 0 recs
Re: hey! its you!

Email me at shaun@uptheblue.com and I will send it to you.  I tried to troll-rate it back into visibility but too many people had zero-rated it, as you might have understood.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-11-12 11:03AM | 0 recs
no i do not understtand it!

it's disgraceful...i would never ban anybody here during our primary dialog - no matter how much i hate their filthy sliming words...what sarcasm is verboten but slander is fine?

save it pretty please, ill email ya tomorrow...im avoiding lookin at my email for the rest of the day...

by holden caulfield 2007-11-12 12:04PM | 0 recs
butt it means i hit a nerve

good...tthey should be worried...im tellin ya...theres no stoppin team big dog...

its just about skills, experience, strategic visioning and competence...

and in not talking being prez here..

im talkin getting ELECED to be prez here...

when was tthe last dem eleced besidess dawg?  30 plus years ago?

when was tthe lasst dem elected ttwice?

60 ome years ago...

how many REAL races has obama been in?

1...his house race...what happened...

um...he lost...

oh well...he should have waited...hed be the vp probally if he had...oh well..

by holden caulfield 2007-11-12 12:13PM | 0 recs
Re: why is "one million strong"...

Seeing as there are a limited number of members on facebook, it is only logical that the group would plateu and growth would almost stop entirely at a certain point.  Clearly that point has passed, and it passed much further up and ahead than Clinton's group.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-11-11 05:10PM | 0 recs
but what about Colbert

his folks are political...he got 1.2 million IN A WEEK!

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 05:12PM | 0 recs
Re: but what about Colbert

Colbert's candidacy was a joke, he's a popular figure, anyone can join a group.  I joined the group for a few weeks till his candidacy died.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-11-11 05:18PM | 0 recs
it didntt die - it was murdered by Obama

and wtf does your excuse mean -does one have to pay money to join "One million for O'Barry?"

uuh...no....so whats your excuse....too many keystrokes tax these dedicated masses of young Obama supporters?

So they wont move their fingers, but theyll show up in the primaries?...uh huh....right...

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 06:59PM | 0 recs
Re: but what about Colbert

You can't dispute that the "One Million for Obama" group has fallen woefully short of their stated goal.  Would that not be considered a failure, then?  If an organization has a fundraiser and sets as its' goal, say, $200,000 raised, would it not be disappointing to only get $70,000 together?  

Besides, Obama is a very popular figure in his own right.  People have seen him on the covers of GQ, Esquire, Time, Newsweek, Vibe, Details, Rolling Stone, etc. magazines, he is in the news one way or another almost daily.  

by georgep 2007-11-12 06:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Slanders Youth

Now this is getting beyond silly. Calling this slander is really stretching this to the breaking point. Penn was obviously just spinning and he made some silly comments, but let's not try to make a mountain out of a molehill. This whole incident is minor in every regard.

by Denny Crane 2007-11-12 04:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Slanders Youth

This entire diary is ridiculously lacking of credibility.  

by georgep 2007-11-12 06:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Slanders Youth

Beacause this is the liberal blogosphere, where kicking around other Democrats is more fun than kicking around Republicans.

by spirowasright 2007-11-11 04:10PM | 0 recs
problem is - theyre following their candidates

example.

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 04:19PM | 0 recs
Obama

Obama has zero chance in winning a GE. Zero.

by prisonbreak 2007-11-11 03:12PM | 0 recs
Really on-topic

by psericks 2007-11-11 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama

Prison,

You are a clown...seriously, you bring nothing to a conversation. Obama has as good a chance as the next.

You obviously don't care about progressive causes due to you blind ignorance regarding getting anything done in the White House. I will assure you that should she win the white house, nothing will get accomplished over the next 4-8 yrs.

by chicagogene 2007-11-11 03:25PM | 0 recs
the white house doesnt need the Congress's

approval to act.

Maybe you should understand how your Government works before you predict how it will function.

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 04:21PM | 0 recs
Re: the white house doesnt need the Congress's

The white house needs congress to spend money though.  Goodluck acting with no funding.  Tell me how that works for you.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-11-11 05:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama

I caught the tail end of Obama on MTP this weekend (my wife had it on... maybe she's into politics more than I thought?).

Russert asked Obama if Hillary could win the general election.  Without hesitation, he responded "Yes," and then went on to make the case for why he believed he would be the better candidate.

Exactly the response any good Democrat should offer in that situation.  It's fine to argue that you are the most electable.  But a good Democrat should not be tearing down other Democrats as "unelectable."

Obama showed class with that answer.  You could stand to exhibit a little yourself.

by Steve M 2007-11-12 09:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Slanders Youth Vote:

You know it's funny that the Clinton campaign doesn't think people, who turned out to a very long night two months before the caucuses, are going to go caucus. I don't care what that crowd looked like. If they went to event like this, then they seem like dedicated supported who are going to caucus for Obama.

Sure, I hope they turn out for Edwards. I want Edwards to win. But I agree with desmoinesdem, if Obama turns out the youth, as a college student myself, then all the more power to him.

by Progressive America 2007-11-11 03:41PM | 0 recs
"HELLO CHICAGO!"

Sen. Joe Biden  D-Del.

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 04:23PM | 0 recs
Re: "HELLO CHICAGO!"

The Obama and Edwards campaigns specifically pledged that although out-of-state supporters would attend rallies on the day of the Dinner, only Iowa residents would be given tickets to get inside.  The Clinton campaign made no such public promise.

by psericks 2007-11-11 04:31PM | 0 recs
simply and without anger or caring

i think thats bull.

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 04:41PM | 0 recs
naah - changed my mind -

see below - they loaded up from the colleges -

lets party does not equal lets caucus.

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 04:43PM | 0 recs
Re: simply and without anger or caring

Actually from what I heard Obama had 5,000 at the event (2,000 left outside), so that does seem accurate.

by Progressive America 2007-11-11 05:32PM | 0 recs
free

ride-housing-food-event-celebrities-rock concert...

girls....boys...t-shirts!

LETS PARTY!

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: free

I usually consider 17-18 year olds young adults... But whatever.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-11-11 05:12PM | 0 recs
and by the way - when they

decided to name the group "a million for"...they obviously expected to get "a million for"...

oops!

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 05:14PM | 0 recs
the obama plan to get kids tto JJ

FREE

ride from campuses-housing-food-event-celebrities- rock concert...

girls....boys...t-shirts!

LETS PARTY!

but to get them to caucus?

..eh...xmas break...home...hmm?...no eh ...parties at caucuss centers?..damn...no rock bands?...uuh...well...lets see...hope...eh facebook?...yeah facebook...well...uh...Obaama ROCKS...eh set thee fire or somethin'...oprah?...well deck them halls...well uuh....hmm...it WILL  happen...uh...chaaange?....keep hope...um...well...Hillary's OLD!...didja know?...um..like real old...um...like older than your parents OLD...uhh...well..set the fire!...um....jingle bells....uhh...O-prah?...hmm....free...D ONUTS!...um...Ambassaador Keeyes bad......Alicia keyes good....hmm...um f-ing boomers.....um...theyll taake all your S.S. money....um...rappers for barack dog!...well...um...she's a fucking LIAR ya know...um...fire somethin'.....um...burn baby burn!....um....ARUGULA FOR EVERYONE!.....hmm...well...uum...come all ye faithful...um....we know oprah yaa know......well....jamie foxx too...um......ol' white folks r so boring!...um...rightt?....my dawg?...well...uum that fresh prince dude too...um well..parents just DONT understand ...um...well...RED BULL!...um...well...she is soo dirty and corrupt yaa see..well...oh silent night!..um...op...rah...um...well...h..e ..l..p.......

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 05:40PM | 0 recs
I can't believe you just typed that all out.

I'll give you this holden, you always make good message board entertainment.

by Korha 2007-11-11 06:25PM | 0 recs
its a long foottball game

but wait for it...

colts goin for the lead with kick..

its NO GOOD!

my goodnesss!

Oh my -  bad week for indy!

first the mayor - now this!

1:30 left...theyre doomed...

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 06:34PM | 0 recs
that lil punk dissappeared my

fun lil bit...

man....there are some real losers on the net arent there?

I hate anyone that tries to silence dissent.  Its disgraaceful.  Its the VERY- VERY worse thing about these websites...

Any so called progressive that do it as an ultimate faker, phonie and fraud...

so says Holden Caulfield and Me too!

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: that lil punk dissappeared my

It hasn't disappeared entirely, trusted users can still see it, for what it's worth.  You even got a nice comment about your sense of humour, which seems in short supply sometimes.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-11-11 07:49PM | 0 recs
Clinton Leading Youth Vote by Huge Margin

Speaking of youth vote, it looks like CLinton is ahead by a huge margin in this demographic group:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/110 7/6805.html

Clinton 54
Obama 24
Edwards 8

by silver spring 2007-11-11 03:50PM | 0 recs
Oh No! It doesnt fit the Obama-MSM script!

Hillarys "dissembling" again...

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 04:25PM | 0 recs
No offense, but you're cherry-picking

Most polls show the youth vote very close between Obama and Clinton.

But as I stated in response to desmoinesdem above, Clinton's real support among young people make these comments from Penn all the more stupid.

by psericks 2007-11-11 04:27PM | 0 recs
Re: No offense, but you're cherry-picking

That is not correct.  Clinton has moved ahead of Obama in national polling quite strong amongst the youth voters.  You are clearly misrepresenting the remarks here.  

by georgep 2007-11-11 04:34PM | 0 recs
Re: No offense, but you're cherry-picking

If we had a national primary, that would mean something.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-11-11 05:14PM | 0 recs
we DO HAVE A NATIONAL

PRIMARY!

that u guys dont get this...show why you have no chance at all....it used to go may...now ittll be done by feb...

amazing how you guys know so lil...

youre only hope is that your dream of scandal will come true...

ask santa..

bad santa..

oopss. i forgot...he's from Ark and a friend of bill'ss...oh well...youre F-ed.

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 06:51PM | 0 recs
Re: No offense, but you're cherry-picking

Wrong.  I stated that IOWA polls have shown 40% to 24%.  Also, yesterday's NH poll showed Clinton winning the 18-29 vote.  

by georgep 2007-11-12 06:16AM | 0 recs
Re:

"Slanders" youth vote?   Is this some sort of joke?  WHERE in the world is the Clinton camp "slandering" the Youth vote?   Clinton is ahead in the youth vote, very clearly.  It is really not even that close.  To claim that these remarks SLANDER the youth vote in general is absolutely ridiculous.  I did not think I would see this type of stuff from this diarist, but there it is.   Cheesy.

by georgep 2007-11-11 04:32PM | 0 recs
I'll repaste my comment to Lori above

Saying that young people do not look like caucus-goers is to state that they don't caucus.  Which is slanderous, because in fact they do...

And instead of the Clinton camp repeating memes about youth voters not showing up after they quadrupled their caucus turnout in 2004, maybe they could reward youth voters for increasing their turnout dramatically over the last two cycles?


And as I replied to desmoinesdem above, the very fact that Clinton has such support among young voters, particularly college-age women, make Penn's comments about young people never showing up that much dumber.

by psericks 2007-11-11 04:38PM | 0 recs
Come on!

I thought you were better than this.

by Big Tent Democrat 2007-11-11 04:49PM | 0 recs
Re: I'll repaste my comment to Lori above

I read the comments you are so outraged about, and I just don't get what it is you are trying to say.  Are you saying, completely illogically, that despite being ahead in the youth vote, the Clinton camp does not want it, they don't care for it, they are just seeing it as unnecessary and inconvenient?  Where does that make any sense?

The last Iowa poll that showed age breakdowns showed Clinton get the youth vote to the tune of 40% to 24%.   Yet, you claim, sans merit,  "Third, let's leave aside that the Clinton campaign is basically on the record planning on a low youth turnout, which obviously leads one to doubt the sincerity or optimism of their efforts to do otherwise" ---

They are ON RECORD planning on low youth turnout?  They LEAD in every poll that shows the youth vote, in some with huge margins.  They are quite obviously planning on a youth turnout equal, perhaps in excess of previous showings.  To claim otherwise is ridiculous, since they are HOLDING A FRIGGING LEAD in that age group in EVERY poll we have seen, including today's NH poll, the last few Iowa polls, national polls.

Of course it is correct that given that voters 55 and older make up more than 50% of primaries and more than 60% of caucuses banking almost exclusively on the youth vote may not be a good idea.  You have to, of course, strongly court the 55 and older vote to win.   That is just common sense that you have to have spread-out support amongst all age groups to succeed, as it is also common sense that in Iowa you need to have spread-out support across the state and all precincts, that even if you have strong support in a few centers, it hurts your chances in the Iowa caucus.

by georgep 2007-11-11 05:08PM | 0 recs
It's a valid word

Slander is a valid word. Slander = disparage = dismiss. Three synonyms. Oh, and it's not like you haven't used more "absolutely ridiculous" words before to describe other people that are not Hillary Clinton.

Even if you don't like the word choice, the substance of the diary is all fact. Obama brought a lot of dedicated supporters to the dinner in a show of organizational strength. Clinton campaign advisors tried to spin that organizational strength away by latching onto flawed arguments and incorrect observations, and in the process dismissing/disparaging/slandering the youth vote. Case closed.

by Korha 2007-11-11 06:38PM | 0 recs
Re: It's a valid word

Case closed?  Nice way to "discuss," Korha.  There is no slander whatsoever in the comments that I have seen.   This diary makes no sense at all.

by georgep 2007-11-12 07:33AM | 0 recs
LOOKS CAN BE DECIEVING

I am 33 years old and still get carded when purchasing a bottle of Wine. I have a Face Book account and a My Space Page as well.

Camp Clinton is making a HUGE mistake and they are proving themselves to be fools who are outdated and ignorant bout todays youth.

by BlueDiamond 2007-11-11 04:54PM | 0 recs
my sister was like that

still getting carded in her early 30s.

by desmoinesdem 2007-11-11 05:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Slanders Youth

Clinton's camp has been blundering lately.  

1. Bad debate that turned into a bash Clinton fest.  

  1. Getting caught planting questions.  
  2. Not being the star at the beginning of the end for Iowa.  (JJ Dinner)
  3. Complaining about how Obama's youth won't vote, while touting their support among youth.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-11-11 05:17PM | 0 recs
The Youth of america will rise

up because Mandy scoffed at obamaites...?

uh huh...

as general sherman writes:  "All hail Obama!"

The cultists for Obama continue their ...

oddness...

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 06:45PM | 0 recs
dont like free speech huh?

The person who wrote this totally worthless piece of whiney propaganda DISAPPEARED my lil amusing response to his idea that college kids are gonna save Obama in Iowa.

Twas fun - but that's not your "thing" is it lil boy? Youre one of those "earnest" phonies thaa thinks that by being harsh and critical, youre being deep.  Wrong...its the most common form of shallow.

Just be sure pal, that when you graduate from whatever loser 7th rate school your 800 SATs got you in to...

that after the entire Democrat community decides in mass to shun all those that slandered and slimed Madame President in 08 -  dont be coming to me for a paid or unpaid even internship you little anti first amendment junior varsity stalinist little twerp.

Jeeze - and I was gonna forward this whole diary to Mandy herself just for giggles...

Her husband Matt's my buddy..a classmate of Obama's by the way...and a man who appreciates a funny..

Unlike you - you...you....CENSOR!

just think, for a moment, somebody would have actually noticed that you have an opinion...oh well, back to reality for you!...

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: dont like free speech huh?

Hey, I had 810 and 790 SATS and I thought that was pretty good at the time.  Is that crappy now?

by Shaun Appleby 2007-11-11 07:26PM | 0 recs
your math may be faulty or they changed the

deal...in my day...it was a max of 800 on each side - up to 1600.

in 2000 a publication that i was involved with printed everyones scores the week of the NH primary..

gore 1450 about - very, very good

Bush - 1230 or so - Andover prep drills for the test        everyday

Bradley - 800 or so - beyond belief bad - only got into princeton cause he was the BEST HS hoops player and legend in the Nation

---

they should always release sat scores - hope the source is still there -cause I have no doubt who scored highest in this crowd

----

its sad you missed my lil piece - twas amusing -
i dont even know why i come to a place that people can and would ban and silence dissent -

it amazes me that this is even considered...amazing...

yeah, buddy, theyre real believers in justice and freedom..

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: your math may be faulty or they changed the

Yeah, I can't honestly remember, that was in 1972.  Never went to college anyhow.  I read your little piece.  You just can't see it 'cuz you get troll-rated so often, I guess.  Who scored highest in this crowd?  You'd laugh to find it was Gravel, wouldn't you?

by Shaun Appleby 2007-11-11 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: your math may be faulty or they changed the

explain why i cant read my own word - nd how tht is acceptable -

and - college is way overated here...as randy newman sang

"college men from lsu - went in dumb - came out dumb too"

my mom never even got to grad from hs...and she was better read than 150 of these troll ratting twits -

plus, I truly believe that your average mexican with a h education is better educated than your average us college graduate...

and I always say in advice to the kiddies who come to my knee for advice...the hardest part about college is getting in...

--

can you see who stole my words?

how dare they? i didtt accuse anyone of being a corrupt liar - or something unforgivable like that did I?  

i used humor of a sort - to make a point - oh shoot me!

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 08:25PM | 0 recs
Re: your math may be faulty or they changed the

Just your 'fifteen minutes of fame' expired I guess.  Put another dime in the meter.  Don't rail at me I didn't zero rate you.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-11-11 08:33PM | 0 recs
Re: your math may be faulty or they changed the

i wouldnt consider you would...you seem to understand the meaning of the word freedom..

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 08:39PM | 0 recs
Are you talking about me?

I didn't troll-rate any of your comments.

by psericks 2007-11-11 07:47PM | 0 recs
well then, my sincere apologies...

indeed..

especially my harsh words on the SATS - I know that a charge like that - if accurate - can be woundingly cruel...

but it was here, twas funny, I was gonna send it  aand NOW ITS GONE!

Where did it go?

This diary is your ship Captain - man overboaard drill!

Save my words!

Nobody F's with my unintellectual property - noone!

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: well then, my sincere apologies...

It's still posted, Holden.  You just can't see it.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-11-11 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: well then, my sincere apologies...

why the heck is that - Ive checked twice..

it amused me during the 4th qtr of the colts loss..

by holden caulfield 2007-11-11 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: well then, my sincere apologies...

You're not a 'trusted user' I guess.  Others can see it, check 'Review Hidden Comments' in the left side-bar.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-11-11 08:17PM | 0 recs
ssttill wanna know who stole my words

i wanna know who are the haters of free speech -

can you see them in their hidden comments?

by holden caulfield 2007-11-12 10:59AM | 0 recs
This is more of the same

A simple striaghtforward statement by two wonks in the campaign is being twisted by you as some sort of CLintonton campaign insult.

That is b.s behavior on your part.

Do you disagree with the points they made with regard to Iowa?  It is Penn's job to look at numbers and facts.   It isn't a slight.

by dpANDREWS 2007-11-12 03:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Disparages Youth Vote?

the comments were made with derision.  I think that was pretty clear.  This was more than analysis - this was carrying some antipathy toward the demographic.

Maybe he was just bitter because he has been burned by young people in the past. Like all the young activists who organize and oppose his corporate clients on any number of issues.

Who is really to say what is going on inside his head, but the derision was pretty clear for anyone who is willing to be the least bit objective about it.

by Orlando 2007-11-12 06:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Disparages Youth Vote?

No, it is there for Obama posters to "see" when indeed there is nothing to see but a trumped up "issue" that does not exist.  Sort of the way SS has now become a major "crisis."

by georgep 2007-11-12 07:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Camp Disparages Youth Vote?

I haven't seen you dispute any of pserick's factual points yet, and until then you have no argument. Bringing in SS (is this is the new Clinton talking point about Obama?) has nothing to do with this thread.

by Korha 2007-11-12 09:24AM | 0 recs

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