Operation False Flag (please rec!)

Recently I was talking to a friend about the Dem primaries.  I expressed my concern about the apparent animosity between Obama and Clinton supporters in the blogosphere and my suspicion that some of the worst offenders might actually be Republicans in disguise.  He got sort of quiet as I mentioned this, seemed like he wanted to say something and then steered the conversation in another direction.  My friend used to be a Republican, but the Bush years shoved him to independent status.  I assumed he found my suspicion a little bit insulting, and I thought no more about it until a couple of days later when I got an interesting email.  Details over the flip.

It turns out he is still on the email forward list of one of his conservative friends.  He evidently received the following email a while ago.  He was not specific about when he got it, and he stripped out the header to protect the identity of his friend (so no info there).  He also was adamant that I not share his identity as he doesn't want to become a target for leaking this.  I can make no claims to the authenticity of this message, whether or not what it describes was ever implemented, and if so on what scale.  I am passing it along just because I though we should be aware of the possibility.  At the very least it should make us think twice the next time an Obama or Clinton supporter says something really divisive.

Since I don't have the original headers or subject line, I am calling this message 'Operation False Flag'.  Read on, and if you think this is as worrisome as I do, please rec this so others can see it.  Thanks.

> IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT
> This informatin is not to be posted to any of our usual forums
> and should be emailed only to people you know personally and
> completely trust.
>
> Here is the updated game plan.
>
> > Step one: Register a bunch of user accounts on lefty blogs.  
> > Create false identities equally divided between Obama and Clinton
> > supporters.  Initially play it cool.  Don't make more than two
> > accounts per blog one for each candidate.  Too many accounts
> > from the same ip and you will be outed as a sock puppet.  Dont
> > do anything drastic that would get you banned.  Lurk for a while
> > at first so you can learn how they talk.  Liberals are like a
> > different species.
> >
> > Step two: Begin ratcheting up the retorict gradually.  Dont
> > start an all out flame war right away begin with small insults.  
> > The idea is to poison the tone of discussion but do it so slowly
> > that they dont realize where its coming from.  You want the
> > liberal sheep to get caught up in it and start doing our work for
> > us.  We can just sit in the background and give them the
> > occasional shove in the right direction.
> >
> > Step three: As the Democ-rat nomination narrows in on a
> > candidate crank up the heat.   Your ident that supports the
> > winning candidate should be a total ass to the losers.  The loser
> > ident should start calling for a voter boycott on the winner.  
> > You may not be able to peal of voters to our side but
> > demotivating them so they stay home is almost as good.  Remember
> > volume of posts is important.  A lot of small posts that
> > reinforce the divisive tone is more effective than a few big
> > posts posts that try and make the argument.
> >
> > Step four: As we succeed in peeling away some of the
> > disillusioned democ-rats we need to be ready to accept these
> > people into the fold.  Remember they have been
> > deluded by years of liberal doublethink, so we need to be careful
> > with them as they make first contact.  Perhaps we could set up
> > some new sites for this purpose ones dedicated specifically to
> > crossover voters.
> >
> > Some forums to focus on include:
> > dailykos.com
> > mydd.com
> > taylormarsh.com
> > firedoglake.com
> > These should have links to others.  Try to focus one blogs that
> > get high traffic.  They should get several articles a day and
> > hundreds of posts in the discussion threads otherwise it
> > probably is not worth your time.
> >
> > Remember the rules!  Do not post any of this on the web
> > anywhere.  You can email this to others you know and trust but
> > only if they understand the rules.  We are running this as a
> > decentrlaized cell operation so no need to report back though you
> > are encouraged to email your account id info to FF's private
> > mailbox.  He is monitoring the lefty blogs and will track our
> > progress.
> >

Tags: deception, Democrats, division, false flag, Republicans (all tags)

Comments

57 Comments

Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!)

I don't think we have much to fear from people who can't spell rhetoric correctly.  

Of course there are Republicans concern trolls on MyDD (and every other Democratic blog for that matter).  They are easy to spot since they can't argue their way out of a paper bag.  They just parrot dittohead talking points.  This has been going on since I started blogging and it isn't an emergency.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-05-18 04:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!)

I'm not worried about the occasional random troll, but this plot seems more organized and insidious than that.  It really makes me wonder about some of the more vocal haters on either side of the Dem divide.  Even if not true, it should make us think about the consequences of our continuing division.  We are handing the neocons exactly what they want.

by protothad 2008-05-18 06:32AM | 0 recs
Even if this particular letter isn't true

...it is a very plausable explanation for the trolls we see around here.

Rec'd for hopefully talking down our more authentic brothers and sisters from any ledges they might be on.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-18 05:43AM | 0 recs
The real question is:

Who is "FF?"

by Dracomicron 2008-05-18 05:44AM | 0 recs
Re: The real question is:

Probably False Flag.

Could also be Fat Fanny, Frozen Frankfurter, or Flatulent Fuhrer.

by toyomama 2008-05-18 06:06AM | 0 recs
Re: The real question is:

Could be, though I also suspect it might be a 'pub with the handle FreedomsFire that I remember from another email my friend forwarded to me.  I can't find that older message, otherwise I might dig up more detail about this.

by protothad 2008-05-18 06:28AM | 0 recs
Troll Identification

One of the problems for honest Clinton supporters is that the comments a real Republican Troll would leave do not have to be far different than what Senator Clinton herself called for in the Friday conference call to her bloggers.

The only clear differentiation is that Senator Clinton is calling for all of her supporters to support the Democrat nominee.  You cannot expect that to come from a Rep. Troll.  

On the other hand, it is my belief that many Clinton Bloggers who are pledging support to John McCain are not Rep. Trolls either, but actually mean what they say.  So there is imho no real way to clearly ID a Republican Troll in these cases.

As an Obama supporter, on the other (third?) hand, I have no great hesitation to call out a supposed Obama supporter behaving similarly as a Rep. Troll.  There has never been a call from the candidate or the campaign encouraging the types of intentional devisive tactics as Sen. Clinton calls for.  Quite the opposite.  

Any Obama "supporter" using such language is more likely - again imho - to be an opposition Troll than a real supporter.

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-05-18 07:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!)

yeah, Right, another lame tactics -  blame it on the Republicans.

this is what Rush Limbaugh wants Obama to believe; that hillary won Penn because of Operation Chaos... how fitting for your candidate.

If Obama gets the nomination - i will vote for the Republican candidate McCain.

Patriotism is a mockery to the Obama's.

by SHIBAM8P 2008-05-18 06:31AM | 0 recs
Many of these people really don't have a clue

how disliked they are by the other half of the party.  They can understand how people can despise Clinton or have contempt for her supporters but they cannot fathom how the reverse could occur.  Anyone feeling that way must be a Republican.

by lombard 2008-05-18 07:02AM | 0 recs
Personally I don't understand Clinton hatred

She has a long history of accomplishment in support of her constituents and the Dem party.  She would make a great President.  I happen to support Obama more, but I would gladly support and vote for Clinton if she wins the nomination.  Truth is, MOST Obama supporters feel that way (even if they do get a bit heated in their advocacy at times).  It really is a vanashingly small number of people doing the trolling, and I think it is entirely possible that it is being amplified and encouraged by a fifth column of Republican moles.

Those people who seem to hate Obama so much that they are willing to throw the country back to the neocons need to think it through.

by protothad 2008-05-18 07:40AM | 0 recs
Your sentiments are judicuous,reasoned, and fair

But, this isn't just about Obama (or Clinton).  I don't like the right wing of the Republican party or the left wing of the Democratic party.  When the right wing rejects McCain, that tells me something good about him.  When the left wing rejects Clinton, that tells me something good about her.

by lombard 2008-05-18 08:29AM | 0 recs
Fair enough

I can understand why a moderate would prefer Clinton over Obama... jut not why one would prefer McCain over Obama.  Examining their platforms and voting records, Clinton shares far more in common with Obama than McCain, and McCain has surrounded himself with neocon advisors and has promised to continue many of Bush's worst policies.  It seems like a pretty clear choice to me.

by protothad 2008-05-18 08:45AM | 0 recs
While I do not assume you are one

you play the role well.

To be clear - because I have and will be speaking out on this - I don't think Alegre is one.

This role s made easier for the Far Right becuase Senator Clinton herself is (still) promoting just the types of actions that actual Republican trolls would use, so it is effectively impossible to tell them apart.

I wrote this early this morning with my thoughts about non-republican-trolls who are following precisely the actions that Sen. Clinton has called for.  Most KOSovars may well find my words too strong (and I ratcheted them back several levels before publishing), but I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-05-18 07:02AM | 0 recs
Do you hate Clinton that much?

...that you would go against her wishes and undermine everything she stands for?  Do you really hate America that much that you would subject it to another four years of neocon rape?  How could you actually think McCain is a better choice than Obama and NOT be a Republican dead-ender?

Just curious.

by protothad 2008-05-18 07:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!)

Excellent demonstration of the false flag posts to look out for!  Thanks for sounding like a Republican troll and helping us pick out some of the things to look out for.  The pledge to vote for McCain, the grammatical errors, the appeal to patriotism - all sound just like a GOP troll.  Excellent work.

I know it must have been hard for you, being as you are a loyal Democrat devoted to ensuring that our nominee wins in November, but I'm glad you took one for the team.

Well done!

by mistersite 2008-05-18 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!)

Probably not PA, only ~71,000 Hillary voters were planning to vote for McCain if Hillary was the nominee based on the exit poll, and ~34,000 Obama voters if he was the nominee.

In Indiana though, Hillary had ~82,000 of those and Obama had ~26000, which was technically enough to decide the outcome.

by HEAP 2008-05-18 07:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!)

Thanks for outing yourself, SHIBAM8P. You've posted some of the most divisive comments I've seen on this site.

by sricki 2008-05-18 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!)

And that call was just made by one of our resident awesomely-fair minded Clinton supporters, sricki. So here's a tip, Shibby-

by ragekage 2008-05-18 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!)

I think we HAVE been identifying them pretty easily. We all know that some supporters seem to have no interest in getting a Democrat elected.

Assuming that this plan was written by one of them that was better than the typical soldier, that "Democ-rat" bit demonstrates the extent of their abilities.

by vcalzone 2008-05-18 06:39AM | 0 recs
How do you know they have "no interest"

Because they express no interest in voting for Obama?  That's not the same thing as having no interest in electing Democrats.

When Obama supporters talk like that they resemble Paul Joseph Goebbels who cried "The party IS Hitler!"

The party is not Obama.

by lombard 2008-05-18 06:58AM | 0 recs
Re: How do you know they have "no

If he's the nominee, he will be the Democratic Party's chosen representative on the ballot of every American.  As such, if a person does not support or vote for him, he or she is by definition not supporting the Democrats in the presidential race.

by mistersite 2008-05-18 07:29AM | 0 recs
Perhaps you are being duped

Please show me where any meaningful number of Obama supporters have said anything like that.  Indeed, even if you can find a few examples of the sort of horrible behavior you detest... how can you be certain it is not exactly the sort of false flag fake supporter that this diary is warning against?  Are you really going to base such an important vote on some garbage spewed by an anonymous blogger?

I'm not saying we should automatically assume every rude person on the web is a Republican, or that we should go on some sort of witch hunt... only that we all need to take a step back, put this election in perspective, and not let over-passioned blog rantings muddy our rational evaluation of the candidates.

by protothad 2008-05-18 07:33AM | 0 recs
Well, let me assure you

I am both rude AND a Democrat.

by lombard 2008-05-18 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Well, let me assure you

Uh huh.

Look, I'm a former Republican myself, and if you're willing to throw Obama aside for McCain just because your gal didn't get the nod, well... it speaks volumes about you and your character, and shows anyone interested just how much right you have to speak for the "millions" of disaffected Democrats who obviously won't support Obama, for totally partisan reasons. Right? Right.

by ragekage 2008-05-18 08:59AM | 0 recs
Well, I don't understand what I'm being asked

since the writing is rather convoluted.

by lombard 2008-05-18 09:26AM | 0 recs
Don't worry

You already agreed.

by ragekage 2008-05-18 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Well, let me assure you

If looking for repub trolls, I would look for the 'former republicans' among us.

Ragekage is the first and foremost candidate for repub troll.

by switching sides 2008-05-19 02:22AM | 0 recs
Nazi references

are beloved among the freeper set.  Just sayin'

If you want to be taken seriously on a democratic site, you can't spout rightwing crap.

by GFORD 2008-05-18 07:36AM | 0 recs
I can say whatever I want

I think this shoe fits some Obama supporters and no freeper told me so.

by lombard 2008-05-18 07:39AM | 0 recs
Re: I can say whatever I want

And because some Obama supporters are jerks, the Neocons deserve another four years with their hands on the levers of power.

Please explain that one to me.

I mean, its not like the freepers and redstate McCain huggers I've seen are towering examples of manners and decorum.  You really think they're candidate is a better choice?

by protothad 2008-05-18 07:46AM | 0 recs
Of course you can.

I just think comparing any Democrat to a Nazi is uncool.  And I pointed out that it's something the freepers do.

I didn't draw a any kind of obvious conclusion in my comment.

by GFORD 2008-05-18 07:56AM | 0 recs
I see the speach Gestapo already removed it

Which is what the Stalinist Kossaks do with any sentiment that dares to offend their self-image.

by lombard 2008-05-18 08:12AM | 0 recs
P.S.

Funny how it is perfectly peachy for a bunch of zealots to post diaries and comments labeling and denouncing anyone who doesn't agree with them as a "troll" and hide any offending comments, but when someone dares to label these zealots as the fascists they are, that is "very uncool."

by lombard 2008-05-18 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: I can say whatever I want

I am four things:

1) A Democrat

  1. An Obama Supporter
  2. Jewish
  3. Enraged.

Go fuck yourself.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-05-18 08:26AM | 0 recs
Same to ya'

Get over yourself.  I merely made a historical analogy to someone reinforcing a cult of personality.  I didn't say Obama supporters wanted to lock Appalachian whites in concentration camps.

by lombard 2008-05-18 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Same to ya'

You just had to invoke Godwin's Law, though.

It's funny.  Those who invoke it never seem to understand how tiny it makes them.

I don't need propaganda to know that Senator Obama resonates with me.  I just need to watch one of his speeches, uncut and unedited.  I just need to watch him chew on a question before answering it.

I don't need Herr Goebbels, or whoever his current equivalent is in your mind, to spin it for me.

Godwin's Law.  So true.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-05-18 08:41AM | 0 recs
So, he resonates with you. OK, fine.

I didn't say that someone who is inspired by Obama is reinforcing a cult of personality.  What I was objecting to is the claim that someone who is not inspired by Obama must not be Democrat.  That kind of thinking does cross the line into a cult of personality.

by lombard 2008-05-18 09:21AM | 0 recs
Re: So, he resonates with you. OK, fine.

But we don't think you have to be inspired by him.

We do think that when he is the nominee, if you don't get on board and back the candidate who is more likely to move the country in the direction you want it to, you're behaving irrationally.

And you probably wouldn't be much of a Democrat.  That's fine.  But if you actually vote for McCain, as some here claim they will, then you've crossed the line (in more ways than one).

Obama does not define the Democratic Party, nor does he own it.  However, he will shortly be leading it.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-05-18 09:24AM | 0 recs
Yes, he will be leading it

and some of us feel he is leading it over a cliff.  Do we have to jump, too, to prove ourselves?

The Republican party has decided to inch to the left.  That is a very good thing.  The Democratic party has decided, at least symbolically, to move further to the left.  That is not a good thing and undermines the centrist cred and goodwill they have developed during the last 10 years.  

My own prediction is that the American public will vote to keep Democrats in legislative power and vote to put McCain in the White House.  When in doubt, split, and there are lots of doubts this year.

by lombard 2008-05-18 09:35AM | 0 recs
Who exactly would send us over the cliff?

Last I checked, it was McCain that was planning to continue Bush's disastrous foreign policy.  It was McCain who pledged to continue the budget busting Bush tax cuts.  It was McCain who admitted he had little understanding of economics, had surrounded himself with Neocon advisors, and now supports the Bush position on torture.

What is it about Obama that makes you so certain he is more dangerous or risky than the proven record of corruption and incompetence of the neocons?  I really am curious.

by protothad 2008-05-18 11:05AM | 0 recs
Not everything is about partisan bullshit

It's because they attack one candidate without defending the other.

by vcalzone 2008-05-18 07:39AM | 0 recs
Something I noticed.

I stayed away from MyDD for several months during this primary season in a fit of pique because my email address changed and I couldn't seem to get a login that would work.

I finally straightened it out and came back.  My first comment in an open thread was 'What has happened here?  The place is crawling with trolls.'  Now that I've been around again for a couple of months, I gotten used to it but it was a shocker.

My point, if I have one, is that your friend's plan works.  I've become slightly de-sensitized to trollish behavior.  There are only a few Clinton supporters on this site that appear to be genuine.  The rest appear to be trolls but since I can't be sure, I have to treat them as if they are not.  On other liberal blogs, people are not so kind.  Posters who have been long ago outed as trolls on TPM and Kos have been posting with impunity here until recently, even getting admin support to remove TU status from people calling them out.

by GFORD 2008-05-18 07:34AM | 0 recs
A Business

FYI; Blogs make money through advertisement. High traffic is a key to more profit. I think that's great. Who am I, who are you? Who knows? Anyone can blog. I do know this much, the more traffic the better for an internet business. Hooray to making money! :D

by soyousay 2008-05-18 07:47AM | 0 recs
Rec'd.

Rec'd for "retorict."

by Shem 2008-05-18 07:57AM | 0 recs
the divide is troubling

I don't think Obama supporters understand how it could be offensive to call us 'low information voters' for example.  I think they accept it as fact or maybe think all of the Hillary supporters on this site are only voting for her because we're women.  

Obama supporters need to re-think certain 'truisms' that have become accepted as 'fact' by some of them.  That you can be a Hillary supporter and not be a racist, for example.  That some of us are just as inspired by Hillary as they are by Obama.  

I'll admit I have been there too - talking about the 'cult', etc.  But I have really tried to stay away from that recently.  For those Obama supporters who do go to the anti-Hillary side, it is just as effective for me, anyway, to hear an Obama supporter tell them that they are wrong.  

by searchforsolidarity 2008-05-18 08:14AM | 0 recs
Re: the divide is troubling

You make a fair point.  I mean that.

Some of your compatriots say the same sorts of things about African Americans, though.

There's blood on all of our hands.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-05-18 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: the divide is troubling

I haven't seen anybody say anything offensive about African Americans here.  If I saw it, thogh, I would certainly be the first to denounce it.  

by searchforsolidarity 2008-05-18 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: the divide is troubling
I dont think AA women will be helped much by an Obama presidency, because he doesnt really understand the problems of women. Remember he was born in a fairly wealthy,intelletual white family.
  The men he has made friends with are rich. I dont see that many women who have made a difference in his life except his grandmother and mother. But they didnt move him toward politics and what he is doing in his life like the black men in his life have.  JMO
MelK Austin,TX                                                                                                                                  
by mk5112 TX 2008-05-18 06:51PM | 0 recs
Re: the divide is troubling

I think when you are faced with two great candidates, it is understandable to lean toward the one that you have some sort of cultural tie to.  It would only be disturbing if people were clearly picking an unqualified candidate strictly for reasons of racial/gender identity.  I honestly don't think you can argue that is happening in this case.

by protothad 2008-05-18 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: the divide is troubling
Well we wont vote for Obama and we dont really want to vote for McCain. So if Clinton decided to become an Independent and we could vote for her and her VP in the national campaign in Nov- we would see what happens and just live with it.
   Its like throwing the dice if that happens- it goes to who ever has more support.
   Having her on the ticket as a Independent would upset both of the little men and this would come about because of the way Hillary and her supporters have been treated by the Obama and McCain camps. So if that happens , you trolls can thank yourselfs for this.
MelK Austin, tx
by mk5112 TX 2008-05-18 06:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Operation False Flag

Why would I recommend this diary?

This is the most laughable plot I've ever seen--with the possible exception of the Miami cadre of suspected terrorists who were going to blow up the Sears Tower being led down the garden path by an over-zealous FBI informant who should have been arrested himself.

And, yeah, I can't see being worried about a numbnut ringleader who can't even spell rhetoric.

Only someone who doesn't have the capacity for critical thought would give this email or this "operation" any credence. C'mon. It's ridiculous! Get over your fear of "trolls" will ya? It's like kids afraid of monsters under their beds, seeing monsters in every shadow.

Good grief...

by Tennessean 2008-05-18 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Operation False Flag

I've looked through dozens of your comments, and I've yet to find any post of yours that says anything good about any Democrat - you're anti-Obama, but you don't seem to be particularly pro-Hillary enough to actually defend her on anything -- only to repeatedly state that you won't vote unless it's her who gets the nomination.

Indeed your most passionate defense so far, seems to have been of any Democrat but of Pat Buchanan instead: http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/15/2 35310/161/136#136

by Aris Katsaris 2008-05-18 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!)

Trolls are trolls and I'm not sure someone lacking the natural troll urge could be an effective troll solely motivated by a political endgame. I've speculated about whether certain posters are "false flag" posters but the bottom line is either the person is making a valid point or they are not. I don't think alegre is a troll or a paid operative, but her personal motivation for making a ridiculous argument doesn't change the ridiculous nature of the argument.  

by Mobar 2008-05-18 08:45AM | 0 recs
Recommended because I find this interesting,

whether it's working or not. I've become increasingly suspicious and intolerant lately. Maybe I'm just more impatient. I've begun to mentally label more and more people as trolls, when in fact they're probably just angry Democrats (and in many cases, Clinton supporters who are hurting). I'm especially suspicious when people say things like, "You liberals are blah blah blah" or "The far-Left is hijacking the party and someone needs to put you in your place." That strikes me as RW-trollish behavior, but I try to keep in mind that most Clinton supporters aren't like me -- a lot of them are centrists and moderates, so maybe they really do resent liberals and progressives.

The people who are bashing affirmative action, talking about the evil Left-wing of the party, or calling CNN the "Clinton News Network" (which I actually saw someone do awhile back) are probably trolls. Beyond that, I can't always be sure.

by sricki 2008-05-18 08:53AM | 0 recs
What is this 'far left' that I keep hearing about?

What is so radical about Obama's platform?  Is it the energy policy that emphasizes local/renewable production?  Is it a return to pay-as-you-go fiscal discipline that balances the budget?  Is it the attempt (however flawed) to provide health care to more Americans?  Is it his plan (favored by most Americans) for a phased withdrawal from Iraq?  Is it the attempt to increase grass roots participation in our Democracy, is that a radical far left principle?

What exactly is this 'far left' and why exactly should I be afraid of it.  Please explain.

Thanks.

by protothad 2008-05-18 11:23AM | 0 recs
That's just it, Obama's a centrist policy-wise.

The people calling him an ultra-liberal/far-Left candidate are idiots. My guess is, most of them are Republican trolls who've been watching Faux News. They're getting their talking points from O'Reilly.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with the "far Left".

by sricki 2008-05-18 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!)

One of the surest ways I've found to identify them is to reward their appeals to traditional Democratic values. For instance, if they turn apoplectic when you talk about how noble their support of things like universal health care, reproductive freedom, and gay rights then chances are you've got a GOP troll on your hands.

These trolls often pretend to be single issue supporters, but refuse to support the other candidate's nearly identical stance on those issues. They get especially offended when you suggest that the issues they claim to support are more important than personality or campaigning style.

by Thadd Selden 2008-05-19 04:09PM | 0 recs

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