Blame-Shifting--The Buses

by Paul Rosenberg, Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 08:50:52 AM EDT

As the never-responsible-for-anything crowd shifts into overdrive, one of their key focal points continues to be the 500 buses (others say 200) that were not used to evacuate people from New Orleans. The fact that they were not used to do this is supposed to shift the blame to Mayor Nagin.

As usual, when dealing with Rovian spin, the attack is simple, the defense, not so much. Simple lies vs. complex truths. From Creationism to "evildoers" to flight-suit Santa, who could blame Rove for liking those odds?

So, I'll suggest a disarming response, which segues into a full-scale explanation for the reality-based community. I welcome feedback, and will rewrite it if people have better suggestions.

The inspiration for this comes from DKos user Greuben, whose comment and diaries (links in the comment) provide a solid, reality-based account. What I'm trying to do here is translate that into a more concise, rhetorically useful form.

Okay, here goes:

Sure, the Mayor made mistakes, and so did the Governor. Elected officials almost always make mistakes when faced with unprecedented natural disasters. But that's why we have a federal agency devoted to dealing with disasters, because it has repeated experience in dealing with crises that mayors and governors may only see once, if ever.

The problem was not that everyone local was perfect, and the Bush Administration screwed up. The problem was that people on the ground made some mistakes, and those who should have corrected them didn't--and in fact made things much worse.

Now, was not using the buses to evacuate people one of those mistakes? I don't think we can say for certain, because there a lot of unknowns. FEMA could have helped to clear up those unknowns, but apparently it didn't.

(1) It's not certain that more evacuation beforehand was possible.

(a) 80% of New Orleans was evacuated, and it caused a massive traffic jam, reported to stretch as far away as Jackson, MS.

(b) Tens of thousands more were evacuated to emergency shelters--such as the Superdome--within the city, and city buses were used to help with that.

(2) It's not certain that the buses could have helped in evacuation beforehand.

The 500 unused buses could have carried 20,000 people, if all seats were filled. But taking people on buses early might have mostly taken people who were going to leave anyway. At best it would have left another 80,000 behind, but at worst it would have left the same 100,000 behind.

Putting people on the buses late might not have been possible, since it's more dangerous to be on a bus in a hurricane than to be just about anywhere else.

Either way, making effective use of the buses would have depended on coordination with authorities outside the city of New Orleans.

(3) In short, it's not clear that more could have been done, or that more was needed, if things had been handled properly after the storm hit.

Certainly there was some loss of life because people didn't evacuate. But the much greater problem was the failure to evacuate the remaining people after the levees broke. At this point in time, the responsibility clearly lay with FEMA, rather than Mayor Nagin. The roads were no longer clogged with traffic, and FEMA could have quickly moved people out--but did not.

If Nagin did make a mistake, it transpired in the space of hours, or a day at most. But FEMA's failure to evacuate people after the fooding began stretched on for almost a week.

(4) The fact that these uncertainties remain over a week after Katrina struck underscores the need for time-tested expertise, such as FEMA is supposed to have.

Given all these uncertainties, it's not at all reasonable to blame a mayor for failing to act, when we still don't know if it would have done more harm or good. But it's very reasonable to blame FEMA leadership--and those above it--for failing to step in as soon as the post-flood need was obvious, starting on Monday, August 29.

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Leading urban legend debunk site takes on bus spin

This bit of right-wing viral spin is being passed around the internet, with a photo. One suspects that Freeper-types are being urged to forward it to everyone they know.

The email in question is the subject of an article today on the extremely popular urban legend site snopes.com. Visit their site to see the photo; here's the text:

The next time you are forced to listen to someone try to blame the lack of help for New Orleans on our Federal Government show them this.

Then ask them why the local Mayor and/or Governor did not deploy these buses August 27 and 28 to help those who could not afford to get out. I am worn out listening to that blowhard mayor (who saw to it that friends were given special leeway to evacuate the Superdome before many of the sick and elderly) and his cronies complain that the President hasn't done enough. And, while your at it, remind the whiners that the majority of the suffering taking place now is a direct result of most of those people not leaving the city last Sunday. I understand that there were some people who couldn't leave for various reasons (such as folks in nursing homes who were only evacuated Saturday), but for the majority of these folks, they would not be in the predicament they are in now if they had simply left. These buses are testimony to the fact that much more could have been done before things progressed to the point they are now.

It is not the Federal Government's (and consequently, the President) fault those people did not leave.

There. I feel better now.

Snopes.com tries pretty hard (too hard, IMO) to be politically neutral, but they point out the following:

Whether this photograph truly represents a lost opportunity to have evacuated a substantial number of New Orleans residents ahead of Hurricane Katrina is difficult to assess.

Such a claim presumes an availability of resources (e.g., experienced drivers, fuel) and workable logistics (e.g., sufficient means of notifying and getting residents to departure points, sufficiently clear roads for multiple trips out of town and back, adequate facilities within a reasonable driving distance capable of providing shelter, food, and water to a large number of people for an indeterminate period of time on short notice) that may or may not have been present. (There's no guarantee that all the buses shown in this picture were even in working condition.)

And, given the particular geography of New Orleans, any such evacuation would have had to have begun well in advance of Hurricane Katrina to avoid exposing residents to the potential danger of being stuck in buses on traffic-clogged roads in the path of an approaching hurricane. Moreover, any type of evacuation effort would have incurred a substantial outlay of funds from local and/or state governments -- while everyone agrees with the advantage of hindsight that would have been money well spent, many taxpayers might not have been left feeling so enthusiastic about footing the bill for an unnecessary evacuation had Hurricane Katrina not proved so damaging.

Probably most important is that the email's presence on the site indicates that it's being widely distributed. The fact that it's grossly misleading doesn't mean people won't be swayed by it, though. Can we get some pictures of the empty hospital beds on the USS Bataan?

by Blank Frank 2005-09-07 09:49AM | 0 recs

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Thanks, Frank!

Glad To Hear It's on Snopes!

They've pulled a few boners in the past, but generally they're pretty good. So a quick link there is obviously a good way to go.

For cut-and-pasters, that's:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/buses.asp

However, I'm looking at how to craft a blend of information and rhetorical effectiveness. While I find their statement concise and correct--in keeping with what they try to do overall--I'm not sure I can draw any conclusions about how I might improve what I've written. So, if you have some suggestions, please post them. I'll be happy to work on improving what I've written.

by Paul Rosenberg 2005-09-07 10:12AM | 0 recs

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Re: Thanks, Frank!

I admit I have no good answers. As you say, it's a simple lie (w/photo) vs. a complex truth.

Which is, of course, why they picked it.

by Blank Frank 2005-09-07 11:35AM | 0 recs

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Judge for Yourself

Here is a link to the City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan

Read it and judge for yourself if the local and state governments implemented it properly and completely.

After a quick read, the one thing that stands out to me is the almost complete lack of mention of where FEMA or any other federal agency fits in. They are mentioned in the sections concerning training and disaster recovering assistance (loans, rebuilding, etc.), but not in the providing of emergency aid immediately after the event. Instead, it mentions the Red Cross, Salvation Army, and the Second Harvest Food Bank as being responsible for setting up shelters and distributing food. That seemed odd to me.

As for the buses, there are a few things in there that would at least imply they should have been used:

The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. [...] Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed.

Transportation will be provided to those persons requiring public transportation from the area.

And check out the responsibilities of the Regional Transit Authority.

Whether or not this applies to the school buses, as opposed to city buses, is somewhat vague, but it does say "all available resources." Also, it doesn't really say if using this transportation means getting people out of town or just to shelters.

And no, I am not trying to add to the blame-shifting - that's why I provided the link to the doc instead of just cherry-picking a few quotes. As I have stated in other posts, in my opinion, there's plenty of blame to go around.

by RepTroll 2005-09-07 02:24PM | 0 recs

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Re: Judge for Yourself

Let's see if Mayor Nagin did everything he was required to do:

V. TASKS

A. Mayor

Initiate the evacuation.
Retain overall control of all evacuation procedures via EOC operations.
Authorize return to evacuated areas.

B. Office of Emergency Preparedness

Activate EOC and notify all support agencies to this plan.
Coordinate with State OEP on elements of evacuation.
Assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas.
Assist ESF-8, Health and Medical, in the evacuation of persons with special needs, nursing home, and hospital patients in accordance with established procedures.
Coordinate the release of all public information through ESF-14, Public Information.
Use EAS, television, cable and other public broadcast means as needed and in accordance with established procedure.
Request additional law enforcement/traffic control (State Police, La. National Guard) from State OEP.

The list is longer, but those are the Mayor's core duties. He fulfilled every single one of his duties.

Here's a very important duty of the Mayor:

E. Louisiana National Guard

* Provide assistance as needed in accordance with current State guidelines.

At the time Hurricane Katrina hit, both Mayor Nagin and Gov. Blanco had done absolutely everything they were supposed to do. So what went wrong?

The logical fallacy that Bush, Chertoff, DeLay and all of the freepers who are trying to scapegoat Mayor Nagin are using is pretending that New Orleans exists in a vacuum and the Mayor's authority and duties are total and complete.

SOP is a frequent acronym in New Orleans' Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan. Every single duty of the Mayor and the Governor assumes coordination with FEMA. SOP will always include cooperation with and assistance from FEMA. That's where everything went wrong.

A number of very comprehensive time lines have been developed and are linked to at Randi Rhodes' blog. Let's take a look at one of the simplest time lines from Think Progress:

Saturday, August 27

5AM -- KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: "I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster." [Office of the Governor]

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: "Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency." [White House]

Sunday, August 28

2AM - KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

7AM - KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE [CNN]

MORNING -- LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER SIGNALS LEVEES MAY GIVE: "Forecasters Fear Levees Won't Hold Katrina": "Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow." [Lafayette Daily Advertiser]

9:30 AM -- MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES FIRST EVER MANDATORY EVACUATION OF NEW ORLEANS: "We're facing the storm most of us have feared," said Nagin. "This is going to be an unprecedented event." [Times-Picayune]

4PM - NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or 5 hit, "Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. ... At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. ... Power outages will last for weeks. ... Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards." [National Weather Service]

AFTERNOON -- BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR: Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: "`We were briefing them way before landfall. ... It's not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped.'" [Times-Picayune; St. Petersburg Times]

LATE PM - REPORTS OF WATER TOPPLING OVER LEVEE: "Waves crashed atop the exercise path on the Lake Pontchartrain levee in Kenner early Monday as Katrina churned closer." [Times-Picayune]

APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD [Times-Picayune]

So far, everybody has done everything they are supposed to do. What went wrong?

Tuesday, August 30

9AM - BUSH SPEAKS ON IRAQ AT NAVAL BASE CORONADO [White House]

MIDDAY - CHERTOFF FINALLY BECOMES AWARE THAT LEVEE HAS FAILED: "It was on Tuesday that the levee-may have been overnight Monday to Tuesday-that the levee started to break. And it was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap and that essentially the lake was going to start to drain into the city." [Meet the Press, 9/4/05]

PENTAGON CLAIMS THERE ARE ENOUGH NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS IN REGION: "Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita said the states have adequate National Guard units to handle the hurricane needs." [WWL-TV]

Ooops! Di Rita is dead wrong.

Thursday, September 1

8AM -- BUSH CLAIMS NO ONE EXPECTED LEVEES TO BREAK: "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." [Washington Post]

CONDOLEEZZA RICE VISITS U.S. OPEN: "Rice, [in New York] on three days' vacation to shop and see the U.S. Open, hitting some balls with retired champ Monica Seles at the Indoor Tennis Club at Grand Central." [New York Post]

STILL NO COMMAND AND CONTROL ESTABLISHED: Terry Ebbert, New Orleans Homeland Security Director: "This is a national emergency. This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can't bail out the city of New Orleans." [Fox News]

2PM -- MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES "DESPERATE SOS" TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT: "This is a desperate SOS. Right now we are out of resources at the convention centre and don't anticipate enough buses. We need buses. Currently the convention centre is unsanitary and unsafe and we're running out of supplies." [Guardian, 9/2/05]

FEMA and the Pentagon blew it big time, so everyone in the Bush administration starts to lie:

Saturday, September 3

SENIOR BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL LIES TO WASHINGTON POST, CLAIMS GOV. BLANCO NEVER DECLARED STATE OF EMERGENCY: The Post reported in their Sunday edition "As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said." They were forced to issue a correction hours later. [Washington Post, 9/4/05]

9AM -- BUSH BLAMES STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS: "[T]he magnitude of responding to a crisis over a disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities. The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need." [White House, 9/3/05]

Let's look at Wikipedia's timeline:

August 29 - AP: "[ FEMA director] Brown also urged local fire and rescue departments outside Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi not to send trucks or emergency workers into disaster areas without an explicit request for help from state or local governments." [4]

August 30 - FEMA refuses to allow volunteer firefighters into New Orlean

September 1 - California swift water rescue crew units each rescue hundreds in Orleans and Jefferson parishes. [7]
September 1 - FEMA halts California swift water rescue crews from conducting further rescues. [8]

That is a very small sample of how FEMA singlehandedly created a national disgrace. The efforts of Mayor Nagin and Gov. Blanco failed, because FEMA failed to uphold their end of the deal. Without federal assistance, there is no possible way for local and state plans to be successful.

The failure rests squarely at the feet of Bush, Chertoff and Brown. End of story.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-09-07 10:37PM | 0 recs

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Re: Leading urban legend

great suggestion

excellent please get busy on this folks!

by goplies 2005-09-07 11:57PM | 0 recs

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The Chain of Command

I think a comparison to Abu Ghraib is in order. Once again the Republicans are blaming the people at the bottom. Those with the least authority, the least responsibility and the least resources are at fault. Those with the most authority, the most responsibility and the most resources are blameless.

Is Mayor Nagin still to blame?

If Mayor Nagin is responsible for the national disgrace in New Orleans, then every Mayor in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama is responsible. Nobody knew which city would be hardest hit by Hurricane Katrina.

Responsibility is proportional to authority and resources. Was there a single Mayor who did more than Mayor Nagin? Did any Mayor order and activate the mass evacuation that the right wing smear machine insists Mayor Nagin should have implemented? Is there any Mayor in any American city that has the power, the authority and the resources to order a mass evacuation of an entire city prior to a hurricane?

How many Mayors are going to order and implement a mass evacuation of entire cities in the path of the next hurricane?

by Gary Boatwright 2005-09-07 10:13AM | 0 recs

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Re: The Chain of Command

OK, this is according to Douglas Kiesling, freelance photographer for The Weather Channel (http://www.lightningboy.com/) - who has covered more than a few hurricanes (including Katrina). Anyway, he was on the radio today and said that in Florida, when a hurricane is coming and the evac order is given, the people - pretty much all the people - get out. He didn't elaborate on how that happens, he just said it did. So, apparently, it does happen in some places - if you believe "lightning boy."

by RepTroll 2005-09-07 02:37PM | 0 recs

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Lakoff article on Katrina and Roberts

Hat tip to Lis Riba Rambles: Musings of a Mental Magpie for pointing out this recent article by Lakoff, The Post-Katrina Era.

A lack of empathy and responsibility accounts for Bush's indifference and the government's delay in response, as well as the failure to plan for the security of the most vulnerable: the poor, the infirm, the aged, the children.

Eliminating as much as possible of the role of government accounts for the demotion of FEMA from cabinet rank, for Michael Brown's view that FEMA was a federal entitlement program to be cut, for the budget cuts in levee repair, for placing more responsibility on state and local government than they could handle, for the failure to fully employ the military, and for the lax regulation of toxic waste dumps contributing to a "toxic stew."

The point is simple. Narrow interpretations can have massive causal effects and be a form of radical judicial activism in the conservative cause. After the Katrina Tragedy, we cannot afford a radically activist Chief Justice with the same philosophy that has failed America so badly. The ultimate moral and political issues apply in both cases. John Roberts as Chief Justice would be a danger to our democracy and possibly to our very lives.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-09-07 10:19AM | 0 recs

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Re: Lakoff article on Katrina and Roberts

Just about everyone in the United States is sick to death of this ridiculous so-called "Supreme Court." So why don't we just abolish it? Frankly, I am 100% over worrying about this ridiculous so-called "Constitution," which allows any American to be held indefinitely without bail, without trial, without even being charged. Time to wake up and smell the coffee: the so-called "Constitution," and its ridiculous so-called "Republic," are ancient history. The time has come for us to close that musty old tome, and become a modern democracy. If our Byzantine republic fails to become a democracy, then it will only become a dictatorship.

Of course, a lot of people will disagree with this; but a lot of this disagreement will turn out to be merely knee-jerk reaction, I think.

by blues 2005-09-07 11:05AM | 0 recs

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Re: Lakoff article on Katrina and Roberts

Just about everyone in the United States is sick to death of this ridiculous so-called "Supreme Court." So why don't we just abolish it?

Tom DeLay would certainly endorse your idea. We could just have Congress and Bush do anything they want and nothing would stand in their way.

Contrary to conservative spin, the Supreme Court is The Weakest Branch.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-09-07 12:39PM | 0 recs

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Losing the blame game and the framing game

From Lakoff's article:

This was not just incompetence (though there was plenty of it), not just a natural disaster (though nature played its part), not just Bush (though he is accountable). This is a failure of moral and political philosophy -- a deadly failure. That is the deep truth behind this human tragedy, humanly caused.

It is a truth that needs to be told, starting now -- over and over. There can be no delay. The Bush administration is busy framing it in its own way: bad things just happen, it's no one's fault; the federal government did the best it could -- the problem was at the state and local level; we'll rebuild and everything will be okay; the people being shipped out will have better lives elsewhere, and jobs in Wal-Mart!

Does anyone know how we can wake up the Democratic Party?

by Gary Boatwright 2005-09-07 10:52AM | 0 recs

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Re: Losing the blame game and the framing game

Try buying it back from the Republicans. Who gives a shit about what all the lawyers say. After all, they are the ones who perfected the art of speaking on behalf of power. I'm sick of the impotent "Constitution," the compromised "Democrats," the insane voting computers -- sick to death of them all. Here is what we get for letting ouselves be brainwashed into accepting our Byzantine Lawyers Republic:

http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2320

by blues 2005-09-07 11:18AM | 0 recs

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Re: Losing the blame game and the framing game

And if you think I'm getting radical about New Orleans, well, there's always Alex Jones.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/new_orleans/gov_sabotage_relief_efforts.htm

Government Sabotage Of Hurricane Katrina Relief Efforts

Pirate News | September 6 2005
By John Lee

A great reader has put together a list of examples of government sabotage of Hurricane Katrina relief efforts.

Related: FEMA Deliberately Sabotaging Hurricane Relief Efforts

CONFESSIONS OF VITAL NATIONAL INTEREST

"Bureaucracy has committed murder here in the greater New Orleans area, and bureaucracy has to stand trial."
-Aaron Broussard, president Jefferson Parish council, MSNBC, TRANSCRIPT Meet the Press with Tim Russert, VIDEO: "Feds criticized for slow response," and VIDEO: "She drowned Friday night," September 4, 2005
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8004316/

Female reporter: "Is it true that the levees were blown up on purpose?"
White House press officer: "This is not the time or the place for questions like that!"
-Televised Press Conference with Ex-President George Bush Sr. Sir Knight of the British Empire and Ex-President Bill Clinton-Blythe-Rockefeller IV re "Bush & Clinton Katrina Fund", MSNBC Morning Show, September 5, 2005

"The US Corps of Engineers will actually open new breaches in the levees in several places to allow the water level to drop faster" [except at high-tide...].
-MSNBC TV, September 4 & 5, 2005

by blues 2005-09-07 11:34AM | 0 recs

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Re: Losing the blame game and the framing game

All very interesting, but it has nothing to do with the Supreme Court. The problem is failure of Congress and the President. The Supreme Court does not have the authority to re-write legislation.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-09-07 12:41PM | 0 recs

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I hate to be contrary

But I still say that some buses could have been organized to remove some people pre-hurricane. When I heard about the Superdome plan, I was (at the time, before the hurricane) skeptical. Problems with this included:

Insufficent water and food at the Superdome (I saw a figure of only 36 hours worth) and no portable toliets.
The fact that carless people were treated by the mayor as second class citizens (everybody out, unless you can't afford a car, then fuck you and go rot in the 'dome).
There was some question at the time whether or not the Superdome would, in fact, survive a cat 5 hurricane. It did (mostly), but of course the hurricane did not hit New Orleans dead on and was down to a cat 4 anyways.

None of this reduces the Bush administration's fault of thier massive screw up afterwards, but to say Nagin wasn't at fault at all is disingenious at best.

by Geotpf 2005-09-07 01:51PM | 0 recs

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Re: I hate to be contrary

(1) You may be right that "some buses could have been organized to remove some people pre-hurricane."

I don't claim that Nagin was mistake-free. I'm just saying that it's hard to say, given various different sources of uncertainty. And one of the reasons we have a federal agency like FEMA is to help people who have never made a similar decision before--people like Mayor Nagin.

(2) "Insufficent water and food at the Superdome" was not the Mayor's problem/fault. There was sufficient foord and water for the hurricane itself, which is what it was intended for. If FEMA had arrived immediately after the storm was gone, or even 12 hours after the flooding became evident, there would not have been any major problem.

(3) Regarding "carless people were treated by the mayor as second class citizens" this is hardly something one can pin on the mayor. The second-class citizenship of carless people in general is is a deep structural problem of how the US is organized. It's worth a deep, sustained discussion, but it's grossly unfair to tar a single mayor for the entire direction of socio-cultural development that has been supported by multiple forms of multi-billion dollar subsidies over the course of more than 8 decades.

However, New Orleans is actually one of the best places for carless people. It has the lowest level of car-ownership outside of NYC. From commentary I've read, it is commonplace for affluent but carless residents to ride out hurricanes in downtown hotels. This was not your average hurricane, of course. Which is where FEMA is supposed to come in.

(4) "There was some question at the time whether or not the Superdome would, in fact, survive a cat 5 hurricane." And this is a very good argument for why the Federal government should have been actively assisting the evacuation process as early as Saturday, the 27th. This seems fairly clear.

But what does it tell us that Nagin should have done? I'm much less clear on that. Sure, with a direct hit from a Cat 5 storm, the Superdome might have failed. But without massive help from the federal government, it was obvious that only about 400,000 out of 500,000 people would be evacuated. So what was he to do?

That's my point. FEMA should have been pro-actively giving him expert advice, and providing resources. Instead, it was AWOL.

Did Nagin perform brilliantly without their help? No. But he perform fairly well. We can argue whether he deserved a B+ or a B-, or even, arguably a C. I'm not saying he deserved an A.

But Bushco didn't even earn an F. To earn an F you have to show up and take the test.

by Paul Rosenberg 2005-09-07 02:44PM | 0 recs

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Re: I hate to be contrary

Insufficent water and food at the Superdome (I saw a figure of only 36 hours worth) and no portable toliets.

Thirty six hours should have been plenty. Who could possibly imagine and plan for a FEMA response that was so incompetent that they couldn't deliver water wihtin 36 hours? The Pentagon can deliver water from America to Iraq inside 36 hours.

The fact that carless people were treated by the mayor as second class citizens (everybody out, unless you can't afford a car, then fuck you and go rot in the 'dome).

The resources of the Mayor were limited. The authority of the Mayor is limited. Even today they are still struggling with how to compel reluctant citizens to leave. Why does everybody expect Mayor Nagin to be God? Let's be realistic about the resources and power of a damned Mayor. A Mayor!

I will repeat the fundamental rule of responsibility. Responsibility for any problem is proportional to authority, power and resources. Mayor Nagin is the person with the least authority, power and resources. Mayor Nagin did everything humanly possible. Nobody could have done or accomplished more.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-09-07 10:44PM | 0 recs

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Dont like Blanco, but like Gary's argument

Gary, I like your proportionality argument. After all, if Blanco messed up, it's only her state that suffers. When Bush messes up, any state is at the mercy of his incredible incompetence. FEMA is better funded. It handles more disasters and should be the authority on such issues.

However, I am still not happy with Blanco. Image does count for something during troubled times. If she had a forceful presence, trust me, that counts for something. Let's ignore the general looting, and talk about the armed looting and the shooting at helicopters and continued refusal of some people to get evacuated. I lay part of that blame on Blanco. As leader of the state, she should be aware of the people who have nothing to go to more than people outside her state. She should have planned for how to deal with such people. There should have been advance planning on how to come up with incentives or effective reassurances to persuade people to leave what they had since no one should be forced to leave their houses. Instead, she had this "oh poor us" demeanor. She should have known the Bushies were not people to be counted on. Once the Bushies were not on schedule, she should have been screaming for action. She should have convinced the country that she has done all she can and stated what she needed from the Feds. I stated these points last week, and I think it is obvious Bush only responded because of the bad press, not because of Blanco's diplomacy. Even Nagin seemed confused what the governor was doing.

I want some honest discussion on how Blanco could have been creative (like borrowing resources from other states in advance, more extensive preplanning that took into account realistic scenarios like people unable to move, looting because of closed dooomed shops, shaming Bush into action earlier via the Press. ). She didn't take advantage of a press , that for once, was not towing the Bush line blindly, at least initially. She blew it.

Unless we are ready to be harsh on Blanco's effectiveness(it is obvious she cared about the people, I just think she has a sad sack demeanor which doesn't inspire confidence among people waiting to be rescued and that leads to people with no hope cooperating less with authorities), it will be tough for us to attack Bush with full force. And I believe heads should roll at FEMA regardless of the state's actions. I am amazed at the gall republicans have in defending that motherf***er Michael Brown. There was this lady who was on O Reilly who wanted to criticize the federal government and she was unable to counter O Reilly's arguments about what the local authorities didn't do. We need to come up with a set of action points. This diary does a decent job with Nagin. But it doesn't do much to redeem Blanco.

by Pravin 2005-09-08 12:29AM | 0 recs

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I'm Sympathetic To This Argument, But...

You have to remember the politics involved. New Orleans is solidly Democratic. Louisiana as a whole is not. I think Blanco could and should have been a whole lot tougher and confrontational toward Bush. But I think she's a creature of the political climate of the state, and that explains a great deal about her behavior. I think it's quite believable that she simply had no idea how bad Bush could be.

That's part of the nefarious DLC influence within the party, and Breaux--a DLC showcase-type figure-- has been the dominant force in shaping the Democratic Party in Louisiana over the past two decades. You will never find me excusing or supporting the DLC influence in our party. But you will find me speaking up when I think that there may be a chance of changing minds. I hope that this experience may move Blanco to re-examine some of her assumptions and adopt a more populist, confrontational approach.

by Paul Rosenberg 2005-09-08 01:55AM | 0 recs

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Re: Dont like Blanco, but like Gary's argument

Let's ignore the general looting, and talk about the armed looting and the shooting at helicopters and continued refusal of some people to get evacuated.

The armed looting and shooting at helicopters were rumors. Nobody shot at a helicopter and only one or two instances of armed looting have been confirmed:

By Thursday, local TV and radio stations in Baton Rouge--the only ones in the metro area still able to broadcast--were breezily passing along reports of cars being hijacked at gunpoint by New Orleans refugees, riots breaking out in the shelters set up in Baton Rouge to house the displaced, and guns and knives being seized.
Scarcely any of it was true--the police, for example, confiscated a single knife from a refugee in one Baton Rouge shelter. There were no riots in Baton Rouge. There were no armed hordes.

But all of it played directly into the darkest prejudices long held against the hundreds of thousands of impoverished blacks who live "down there," in New Orleans, that other world regarded by many white suburbanites--indeed, many people across the rest of the state--as a dangerous urban no-go area.

How is it the Governor's fault that people refuse to leave behind their homes and all of their earthly possessions? Neither the Mayor nor the Governor can change human nature.

She should have known the Bushies were not people to be counted on. Once the Bushies were not on schedule, she should have been screaming for action. She should have convinced the country that she has done all she can and stated what she needed from the Feds.

Nobody could have predicted the level of malice Bushco had during this disaster. Even today as much as 35% of Americans do not believe it. You are being naive about what one person can accomplish. Blanco was demanding that FEMA mobilize National Guard from other states and FEMA was turning back help from other states.

She didn't take advantage of a press , that for once, was not towing the Bush line blindly, at least initially. She blew it.

Simply put, you have super human expectations for Blanco.

There was this lady who was on O Reilly who wanted to criticize the federal government and she was unable to counter O Reilly's arguments about what the local authorities didn't do. We need to come up with a set of action points. This diary does a decent job with Nagin. But it doesn't do much to redeem Blanco.

Read the damn time lines! Randi Rhodes has marshalled facts that O'Reilly and his audience do not know. Even you are buying into the bullshit. Why do expect Americans who are uninformed to be able to deal with O'Reilly's lies?

We don't need to scapegoat either Nagin or Blanco. They both did everything that could be rationally and humanly expected. There will certainly be Republican Mayors and assholes like Mayor Koch who pretend Nagin could have done more. There will be Republican Governors who pretend Blanco could have done more.

Haley Barbour didn't do more. Let's compare what Blanco did with a Republican Governor instead of what a mythic super hero could have done.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-09-08 03:58AM | 0 recs

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Re: Dont like Blanco, but like Gary's argument

The armed looting and shooting at helicopters were rumors. Nobody shot at a helicopter and only one or two instances of armed looting have been confirmed: /
Thanks for the clarification. This is why the dem party must shape up in the spin area. The repubs throw so much crap at us, even people like me can get thrown off. But for what it's worth, my thought was left incomplete. I brought it up not because I was outraged at them looting, but I could understand why some might take up arms. Is there an edit button for our replies somewhere?
/How is it the Governor's fault that people refuse to leave behind their homes and all of their earthly possessions? Neither the Mayor nor the Governor can change human nature. /
It is not their fault that they left, But there seems to be miscommunication between the GOvernor and the mayor on this count. She was made to look out of touch with the mayor on a FOX News interview no less. And wasn't it there in their own preplanning report that not everyone might evacuate. So this was not an unknown factor.
My problem is there was no strategy to convince people to leave. It is not exactly a shock that people will stay for different reasons. I just thought she was caught flat footed on this.

/Nobody could have predicted the level of malice Bushco had during this disaster. Even today as much as 35% of Americans do not believe it. You are being naive about what one person can accomplish. Blanco was demanding that FEMA mobilize National Guard from other states and FEMA was turning back help from other states.

She did not communicate that with the public well enough which is why the right wingers are getting away with saying she didn't call the national guard in full force immediately. I don't buy that bullshit from them, but a lot of people did.

/ "She didn't take advantage of a press , that for once, was not towing the Bush line blindly, at least initially. She blew it. "

Simply put, you have super human expectations for Blanco. /

/Read the damn time lines! Randi Rhodes has marshalled facts that O'Reilly and his audience do not know. Even you are buying into the bullshit. Why do expect Americans who are uninformed to be able to deal with O'Reilly's lies? /
The lady in question was not a right winger. She was on O Reilly to say Bushies didn't care about this because of the demographics. The dem party needs to start helping out women like this by providing talking points. Maybe she should come to mydd for her info? :=)

/ We don't need to scapegoat either Nagin or Blanco. They both did everything that could be rationally and humanly expected. There will certainly be Republican Mayors and assholes like Mayor Koch who pretend Nagin could have done more. There will be Republican Governors who pretend Blanco could have done more. /
True, she seems to have done stuff by the book and there was no criminal negligence on her part compared to Brownie Boy. However, I do think she should have been more forceful in asking for things. 5 years of Bush should have taught her that much.

/Haley Barbour didn't do more. Let's compare what Blanco did with a Republican Governor instead of what a mythic super hero could have done. /

Well, the repubs churn em out in such numbers it makes it tough to attack every guilty republican! Ha.

by Pravin 2005-09-08 06:46AM | 0 recs

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Sorry for the bad formatting(eom)

by Pravin 2005-09-08 06:47AM | 0 recs

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Re: I hate to be contrary

And even assuming he could have gained control of those busses and found fuel and drivers, a very big if as discussed above, exactly where was he going to send them? Before the worst happened, just who was ready to take in a bunch of bus loads poor blacks from New Orleans? Even after the deadly flooding, when those people tried to walk out of town sheriffs from the surrounding areas turned them back with guns.

Without some sort of national or state evacuation plan, just as soon as those vehicles crossed out of the city they, and everyone aboard them, would have been on their own without destination, support, funding or legal authority. It is madness to suggest that the mayor should have commandeered those busses, loaded them up, and sent them out of the city in the face a storm. If anything had gone wrong on any of them it would have all been his fault. How could he be expected to do such a thing just based on the chance the levees might break? Perhaps if he were a prophet he would have, but that it too much to expect of an accountant and business man who in any event had only just become a Democrat.

by Fred in Vermont 2005-09-11 05:41PM | 0 recs