Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

I wrote this for today's Beyond Chron, San Francisco's Alternative Online Daily.

It's been over a week since the Yearly Kos Convention, where Hillary Clinton said she'd keep taking money from lobbyists, that we are safer than on 9/11, and she fumbled my question about her husband's legacy.  Her lobbyist comment was the most damaging, as her Rasmussen poll numbers steadily declined for the next four days after the Convention. Her support for NAFTA and the Defense of Marriage Act have played a role in the campaign over the past week, putting Clinton on the defensive that could end up being a turning point in the race.  But change will only happen if bloggers - and the other campaigns - seize on this opportunity because we know that the mainstream media will not do its job.  With five months to go before the Iowa Caucus, there is still time for voters to learn the truth.

The case against Hillary's Presidential nomination is even stronger when you consider questions about how she will fare in a general election.  She is probably the first centrist presidential candidate in three decades who is less electable than her progressive challengers, which should lead primary voters to wonder why they would even want her to be the party's nominee.  After Democrats have settled for 30 years with the most moderate candidate every four years for the sake of electability, 2008 offers a unique opportunity to nominate someone who the party base can truly get excited about.

It is one thing for Hillary to make statements that alienate the progressive base of the Democratic Party.  But her refusal to stop taking money from lobbyists because they "represent real people" will hurt her chances across the political spectrum.  Scott Rasmussen took a poll after her comments at Yearly Kos, and found that only 24% of voters believe that she cannot be influenced by lobbyists.  When asked if they agree with her that a lot of lobbyists "represent real Americans," only 12% said "yes" while 71% said "no." This won't just hurt her in the primary; it could be devastating in the general election.

Since the Yearly Kos forum on August 4th, the Democratic Presidential candidates have had two more debates - an AFL-CIO debate on August 6th that focused on labor issues, and a Human Rights Campaign forum on August 9th that prioritized LGBT concerns.  In both sessions, Hillary was again put on the defensive for her husband's legacy - as Bill Clinton betrayed labor unions on NAFTA, and sold out the LGBT community with the Defense of Marriage Act after having been their champion in 1992.

At the labor forum, Hillary conceded that NAFTA as implemented "has hurt a lot of American workers, so we have to have a broad reform in how we approach trade." But more revealing was her position on fast-track - "I don't want to give fast-track authority to this president" - when it was her husband who pushed for this policy in 1997.  And while she probably dodged a bullet at that debate regarding NAFTA, it has allowed John Edwards and others to aggressively stress this issue on the campaign trail.

Hillary's problems with the LGBT community were on full alert at the Human Rights Campaign debate - an arena where she has cultivated strong support and contributions.  Lesbian rocker Melissa Etheridge asked her a tough question about her husband's legacy, as Etheridge said gays were "thrown under the bus" during the Clinton years after "all the great promises that were made to us." Hillary's response - "I don't see it the way you describe that" - showed an insensitivity to the real sense of betrayal that queers have felt.  And while Hillary's stance on marriage equality is really no different from Barack Obama, the fundamental question will be about trust - who's going to sell us out when it's expedient?

The worst part of Hillary's answer to my question at Yearly Kos was about the Telecommunications Act, where she said, "I don't know, ask Al Gore." Some have noted how rare it was for Clinton to plead ignorance on a policy question.  But she really had no excuse, given that the law in question allowed Rupert Murdoch and others to consolidate their media empire, and how in the process she has made peace with Murdoch.  The fact that Murdoch hosted a fundraiser for Hillary can come back to haunt her, especially with Edwards blasting the Australian tycoon's recent purchase of the Wall Street Journal.

It's not unusual for Democratic candidates to take positions that progressives find distasteful - only to later get their support under the guise of "electability." For 35 years, Democrats have been haunted by the ghost of George McGovern - the last progressive nominee who lost every state except Massachusetts.  We must not elect a progressive, we've been told, or else they will certainly lose to a Republican.  For over a generation, party activists have been told to bite their tongue when their candidates say such things - because only a "moderate" can help us win the White House.

But here's the kicker.  Hillary Clinton is not only the most anti-progressive Democrat running for President.  As my boss Randy Shaw pointed out, she is less electable than John Edwards and Barack Obama.  According to Rasmussen's general election match-ups, Obama and Edwards would beat any of the major Republican candidates, whereas Clinton would narrowly lose to Rudy Giuliani or Fred Thompson.

It's one thing that a conservative Democratic candidate is unpopular among progressive activists like myself in San Francisco.  But Clinton is even more unpopular among conservatives in the "red-states," where the Democratic Party is hoping to expand its base.  Congressional candidates and state party chairs in those parts are openly nervous that she will be a drag on the Democratic ticket - hurting the party label precisely where it needs a boost.

The chairman of a Midwest state party (who wished to remain anonymous) called Clinton a "nightmare" for congressional and state legislative candidates because of the drag she would be on the ticket.  "The argument with Hillary right now in some of these red states is she's so damn unpopular," said Andy Arnold, chairman of the Greenville, S.C., Democratic Party. "I think Hillary is someone who could drive folks on the other side out to vote who otherwise wouldn't."

More ominous for Clinton is her almost universal name-recognition, but high unfavorable ratings - which consistently hover in the 48-49% range.  This is particularly scary when you consider that no negative campaign against her has yet been waged.  Voters have essentially made up their minds about Hillary, so there really is no way for her to go in the polls but down.  It's hard to change the pre-conceived notions people have about known quantities. Edwards and Obama, on the other hand, are still relatively unknown.

But Democratic voters - who will decide whether she becomes the nominee - don't yet understand how unelectable she is.  CNN recently asked 458 registered Democrats who they thought had the best chance of getting elected President, and in that poll Hillary easily beat Obama and Edwards.  But registered Democrats don't have the final say as to who becomes President.  That will be resolved by all voters - including Republicans.

"If Democratic voters pick experience," said pollster Mark Blumenthal at the Yearly Kos Convention, "Hillary Clinton will win.  But if they pick trust as the most important issue, she could lose." Right now, Hillary's lead is in part due to her higher familiarity, as low-information voters who don't know Obama or Edwards assume that they simply lack the experience to be President of the United States.  What they need to be reached about is Hillary's anti-progressive legacy - which raises the question of whether you can trust her to be a strong Democrat.

But electability also has to play a factor - and despite what the polls say, and what we're hearing from Democrats in the red states - Democratic voters have not dogged Clinton with the question of whether she could win.  As pollster Stan Greenberg said at Yearly Kos, the specter of "electability" can make or break a candidate - the way it destroyed Howard Dean's candidacy practically overnight.  "Iowa voters tend to be very pragmatic," said Greenberg, "and these things can change very quickly."

So there's still time for these dynamics to change so that Hillary does not win the nomination.  In the meantime, progressives will have to remind Democratic primary voters three basic problems about Hillary: (a) she's not progressive, (b) she can't be trusted, and (c) she can't win the general election, or at least will face tougher odds than the others.  What we know, however, is that we can't just wait for the mainstream media to pick up on these points.  It's something that the liberal blogosphere - as well as the Obama and Edwards campaigns - will have to talk about themselves.

Send feedback to paul@beyondchron.org

Tags: 2008 Democratic primary, Barack Obama, doma, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, John Edwards, NAFTA, polls, Telecommunications Act, Yearly Kos (all tags)

Comments

24 Comments

Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

Another despicable and vicious attack against Hillary.

The last time you lied about Hillary's appearance at YKOS, many many bloggers who showed up destroyed your lies.

And now, more lies? What's the difference between you and freepers?

You should be ashamed.

by areyouready 2007-08-15 06:42AM | 0 recs
i missed the lie...

could you please point it out for me?

by bored now 2007-08-15 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

Yeah, um.  This diary is pretty bad, but you don't exactly have standing to complain about lies and vicious attacks.  Please.

by Steve M 2007-08-15 07:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

A despicable human trash indeed.

by areyouready 2007-08-15 06:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

You don't need two posts to express your feelings and you dont need to call everyone you disagree with a bad name.

by world dictator 2007-08-15 06:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

I usually do not call these people out. But this liar made me very angry. Last time, he wrote a piece claiming there were only 2 Hillary supporters at YKOS.

Many many people including non-Hillary supporters came out and denounced his lies. This guy is extremely despicable with all sorts of fabricated lies.

by areyouready 2007-08-15 06:47AM | 0 recs
that's a "lie" (by your definition)...

paul said he only ran into 2 supporters at the convention.  i think the applause for his question to her should give you pause.  i don't know that i met anyone at ykos who supports hillary, and i was in the room with paul.

isn't changing the claim what republicans do?

by bored now 2007-08-15 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary
"human trash indeed" - thanks for pointing out how the Clinton campaign plans to counter anyone who is not under their orthodoxy, with insults and Rovian smears. Projecting are we?
by dhooters 2007-08-15 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

Paul you cherry pick like none other. Are you willing to defend this article because theres a lot of issues with it that i'd be happy to point out.

by world dictator 2007-08-15 06:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

Sure, bring it on.

by Paul Hogarth 2007-08-15 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

This is particularly scary when you consider that no negative campaign against her has yet been waged.

-splutter-

by Steve M 2007-08-15 06:48AM | 0 recs
i agree...

if it was qualified to be "this election cycle."  i don't think we've seen negative campaigning yet (our definitions and the use of plural may differ)...

by bored now 2007-08-15 07:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

I am not even going to get into how skewed this diary is. The guy asks a 6 part question at a forum and she doesn't answer it to his satisfaction. Big whoop. No answer she could have given would have satisfied him. That was the purpose of the question. He must think we are all complete frickin idiots.

This diary is just all bullshit. It is a tear down piece based upon spurious claims and light on evidence. Everyone has the right to their opinions but this isn't reasoned opinion it is just foolish crap.

Quite frankly, I am a DEMOCRAT and I don't give a damn what the republicans think. Obama might, but he is a Reagan Democrat and I expect that kinda crap from him. And you really think that republicans will warm up to John Edwards? You must be smoking some powerful shit.

by DoIT 2007-08-15 06:59AM | 0 recs
ok, we're conceding nader voters...

and now reagan democrats.  can we just get a list of all the segments of the electorate that we're conceding to republicans?  i'm a little confused by this approach (although i will point out that this is why democrats lose the presidency, even when they are right on the issues)...

by bored now 2007-08-15 07:06AM | 0 recs
Paul...Hillary is definetely electable

This is just a brief snapshot of how wrong your unelectable argument is

More ominous for Clinton is her almost universal name-recognition, but high unfavorable ratings - which consistently hover in the 48-49% range.  This is particularly scary when you consider that no negative campaign against her has yet been waged.  Voters have essentially made up their minds about Hillary, so there really is no way for her to go in the polls but down.  It's hard to change the pre-conceived notions people have about known quantities. Edwards and Obama, on the other hand, are still relatively unknown.

1. I already wrote a diary about why favorable/unfavorable ratings are overrated

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/14/2172 2/8734

2. This claim that Obama and Edwards are relatively unknown is comical at best.

But here's the kicker.  Hillary Clinton is not only the most anti-progressive Democrat running for President.  As my boss Randy Shaw pointed out, she is less electable than John Edwards and Barack Obama.  According to Rasmussen's general election match-ups, Obama and Edwards would beat any of the major Republican candidates, whereas Clinton would narrowly lose to Rudy Giuliani or Fred Thompson.

Edwards is trending downwards big time against GOP contenders

Former Senator John Edwards (D) and former Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) are now two points apart in the presidential race, with Edwards leading 46% to 44%. The latest Rasmussen Reports national survey also shows Edwards leading former Senator Fred Thompson (R) 47% to 41%.

In July, Edwards led Giuliani by seven. They were tied in June.

Senator Edwards enjoyed an 11-point edge on the actor-politician in July.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c ontent/politics/edwards_now_in_toss_up_w ith_giuliani_lead_over_thompson_shrinks

It's one thing that a conservative Democratic candidate is unpopular among progressive activists like myself in San Francisco.  But Clinton is even more unpopular among conservatives in the "red-states," where the Democratic Party is hoping to expand its base.  Congressional candidates and state party chairs in those parts are openly nervous that she will be a drag on the Democratic ticket - hurting the party label precisely where it needs a boost.

Red States like Florida?

Senator Hillary Clinton leads all Republican hopefuls in the race for Florida's 27 Electoral College votes. The Sunshine State cast its votes for the Republicans in each of George W. Bush's election victories. If those Electoral Votes were cast for the Democrats in 2008, it would be a huge swing and make a Republican victory difficult to achieve.

The actual breakdown is devastating...


The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone polls in Florida shows Clinton leading Republican frontrunner Rudy Giuliani by five, Fred Thompson by 13, John McCain by 14,and Mitt Romney by 22. Perhaps most significantly, Clinton's support tops the 50% mark against all the candidates other than Giuliani (she leads Giuliani 49% to 44%).

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/clinton_leads_gop_hopefuls_i n_florida

by world dictator 2007-08-15 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Paul...Hillary is definetely electable

I could have formatted that better but I think everyone is smart enough to follow along

by world dictator 2007-08-15 07:06AM | 0 recs
Q-poll

There's a Q national poll coming out. Lots of interesting internals to debunk the myth ...

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?Rele aseID=1091
Just give you some example.

                        Red     Blue    Purple

Clinton                   44%     52%     43%
Giuliani                  46      40      43

                          Red     Blue    Purple

Obama                     39%     47%     42%
Giuliani                  45      40      41

                          Red     Blue    Purple

Edwards                   42%     45%     42%
Giuliani                  42      43      40

                         Red     Blue    Purple

Clinton                   44%     52%     45%
McCain                    45      39      40

                         Red     Blue    Purple

Clinton                   45%     58%     47%
Thompson                  42      32      39

You may want to take a look.

by areyouready 2007-08-15 07:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

You have zero credibility , since you were denounced roundly on your last post which was full of crap , both here and daily kos.

But I must thank you , since her performance at daily kos are numbers have been moving up steadily. Although I think you are a fraud you at least you served a useful tool for Hillary Rodham Clinton.

by lori 2007-08-15 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Voters Learning Truth About Hillary

Another hit piece Paul. Give it a rest. Didn't you get the message last time?

by lonnette33 2007-08-15 07:28AM | 0 recs
My take...

Yes, no one can dispute that Hillary did not make these statements, on video.  And yes, by polling she is beating matchups, but all the Democrats are.  The only thing that matters, if she is the nominee, is down the road.  Can she beat them "this time" next year?  We don't know.  Again, Hillary Clinton is a candidate that many have made their minds up about, we have.  So, the only question is can she convince the "Reagan Democrats", the Independents, to vote for her.  We don't know.  And throwing up polls now, is irrelevant, at this time.  And many will have issues with NAFTA, anyone that lost jobs will.  And she will have to address those folk and convince them, that she is the one who will bring jobs back.  She already is talking the "green jobs" which is what Edwards have been talking about for months.  So, right now, I don't know about Clinton.  It is still up in the air, as with many Americans.  We will see how it all falls out in the winter.

by iamready 2007-08-15 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re: My take...

closing your eyes and ignoring counter arguments does not make them go away

also saying "can Hillary beat them this time next year" is no different than saying "can Obama/Edwards beat them this time next year"

by world dictator 2007-08-15 07:49AM | 0 recs
Re: My take...

Exactly, I am not arguing this point.  Because we don't know.

by iamready 2007-08-15 07:57AM | 0 recs
Re: My take...

thats fair

by world dictator 2007-08-15 08:27AM | 0 recs
Edwards/Obama : Dream Team & Dream Sequence

In the year 2000...
John Edwards was entering the public consciousness, as he was on Al Gore's short list for VP...along with Kerry and Lieberman. I remember. I was for Edwards back then too. Gore picked the wrong guy. Boy did he!

In 2004, John Edwards was the zing that gave Kerry a significant boost. He was the excitement.

In 2006, Barack Obama appears on the scene, much like Edwards in 2000...and I believe he will be president...but just like with John Edwards in 2000, he is in need of seasoning. 2016 has his name all over it.

John Edwards, on the other hand, is as ready as any peson can get. But not over-ready...like Hillary, who, after all, has already had her turn in the White House, and did a pretty good job of it.

But she is, and has been, the Right's Dream Candidate, since they have been fighting against her for over a decade, many of whom will never, never, vote for her. And this continued negativity cannot be good for the country. And I'm not faulting her for it. I just think she should see the wisdom in an Edwards/Obama ticket...and the three should make it happen.

Granted, Edwards could pick someone untested, but why? Especially when Obama has so many supporters, smarts, and dynamism. He is just short on experience. 8 years of being a VP is great experience for his 2016 presidential victory.

In an Edwards administration, ALL of the candidates could find a meaningful role to play, and as John said, even some Republicans. I'm thinking Hagel and other people of integrity...not ideologues. Maybe even Bloomberg. I suspect he is thinking along similar lies.

An Edwards/Obama ticket could create a tidal wave of support, and go a long way toward bridging the divides which, in essence, are just little wars being waged within our own country.
It would also bring a lot of new people into the party. So many good reasons.

Obama/Edwards is not as good, nor is it all that fair or wise. Besides, Edwards has the fire and the vision...AND the experience, to do well, and avoid doing badly.

An early Obama might limit his effectiveness in the long haul. Too many reasons to go into now.

I know it is presumptuous to move #3 into the #1 slot, but I think if you look at the strengths of the possible combinations, Edwards/Obama, today, looks like a winning formula. And Edwards, being the strongest envionmentalist, and huge fan of Gore, would make sure the problems that our dear Al has brought to national and world attention, will be addressed, and addressed immediately.

Dave
Charlotte

by anonyMoses 2007-08-15 08:00AM | 0 recs

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