I don't have any problem with leaning a poll. It can help drive a narrative. The other side certainly uses it and with great effect.
The issue here is one of fraud, not lean. If R2k was leaning further than they did, but they were doing so legitimately (e.g., using a less realistic sample pool), then I don't think there would be an issue.
Well, as I noted earlier, your allegation against R2k was that it leaned left.
But Nate Silver pointed out that the margin of error for R2k was not that great. So your argument against R2k because they were providing friendly results doesn't hold much merit -- the results just weren't that friendly. Plus R2k was a reputable pollster used by many other media outlets besides dKos.
Markos' allegation is that fraud was behind the results regardless of lean, which required intense statistical analyses to prove, and only on point #3 of 3, as Ravi notes above.
As such, Markos, Nate, and those who did the statistical analyses receive the credit. You may have been right, but for the wrong reason, which on the Internet, amounts to nothing special.
As Nate Silver pointed out, the margin of error for R2k was not that great. So the argument that R2k was kept on for too long because they were providing friendly results doesn't hold much merit -- the results weren't that friendly.
Do people really care if it is May or August? You may. I don't.You know what I do care about? That it is done in a safe and secure manner. That's what I care about. I find it rather frightening that you don't seem to feel the same way. The troops are leaving Iraq. You cannot argue that. They aren't going the other way. Who cares if it is May or December?
Well, Barack Obama wasn't President in 2008. It's sort of difficult for me to become angry that Preisdent Obama didn't do something he wanted to do before he had the power to start doing it.
The clock started on January 20, 2009, and the drawdown must proceed in an orderly manner. I'm looking at the graph of troop numbers, and low and behold, they are steadily decreasing.
What if there is a logistical problem? He said 16 months during the primary, which would be May 20, 2010. Okay, we're leaving but not gone yet. Is it really that much heartache if we will be gone soon enough? I really think people only care that we are leaving, not in a few months' delays after all these years.
And why must you throw out accusations of lying? Where did I lie?
I'm simply looking at the troop numbers and the time, and I'm aware that it isn't August 31, 2010 yet, or even December 31, 2010 yet.
The initial withdrawal date for Iraq was August 2010. The modified withdrawal date is end of 2010. Do people care? No. The important point is that we are leaving, as Obama promissed. People understand logistical delays.
The primary was settled two years ago. You lost. You need to get on with your life. It's not good for your health to hold onto bitterness like this.
Puma simply serve as amusement, as you twist yourself into all sorts of controtions complaining that Obama is too far to the right after supporting the choice that was to the right of Obama in the primary.
I have come to the conclusion that puma are ultimately motivated out of fear that someone is going to come along and reinforce the notion that Bill Clinton's Presidency was failed, that some guy is going to succeed where Bill Clinton failed. It's not that we're obots, but that you are clintonistas desperately trying to save Bill Clinton's image 10 years after he left office. If some guy comes along and passes health care, hold the house and senate, and gets reelected, then he surpasses Bill Clinton. And that's ultimately what you're afraid of. That all your Republican friends who told you that Bill Clinton never accomplished anything... were right.
...it was a mirror. People saw in it what they wanted to see. Personally, I saw some very encouraging words, and some words that were too vague for my liking.
The speech asked for thought, though. And I am amused watching the media elites tripping over themselves trying to tell people what to think immediately after Obama, in my opinion, made the subliminal case for people to think for themselves.