Greatest Head-fake in History

VP Speculation season, I love it!

I think Obama's got everyone right where he wants them, feverishly speculating on everyone EXCEPT the one he's actually chosen.  He'll wait until the start of the convention, and then announce his selection in a way that will dominate the news cycle for the next week at least.

Personally, I think that choice will be Hillary Clinton.  If he chooses another woman, it will be seen by many Clinton supporters as a weak choice from someone who couldn't stand up to the "Clinton Machine." There is a popular common narrative around sexist issues that many men feel threatened by powerful women.  Obviously, Obama doesn't fit that narrative very well (considering his choice of spouse).  But I think he'd be painted with that brush.

Hillary takes me WAY out on a lonely limb (thanks, Anna Shane, for keeping me company).

I read in an AP article today that IF Obama has decided on Hillary as his VP and is trying to pull a convention surprise, he would have to keep it from Hillary and Bill Clinton as well, because of the "seive-like" quality of their inner circle.  Hmm.  That remark probably referred to the leaked Clinton Memos.

Also let's look at the organization of the Convention.  Roll Call Vote, Hillary on Tuesday, Bill on Wednesday (the night the VP also speaks).  Wow.  He's really giving quite a show to the Clintons.  But look at the people who are NOT coming...Clark, Rangel.  Huge Clinton supporters.  Obama's creating a message of Unity, but he's not going to let it become Hillary's convention.  He's the top dog and Hillary and the Big Dog need to come to him now.  The message is clear.

Yes, yes, it's just speculation.  But fascinating.  What is Obama doing, we are all asking ourselves.

If Clinton isn't chosen, my bet is he'll choose Biden for his foreign policy experience and his ability to coin pithy expressions that crush his opponents ("A noun, a verb and 9-11.")

Finally, Sam Nunn.  As a gay man who spent 6 years of my life lying my ass off in the USAF, I offer a word of warning to the Obama folks:  Pick him and you can watch the gay community stay home on election day.  That's not a threat.  Samm Nunn is no friend to the gay community.

Caveat and apologies - my first diary.  I can't get the HTML tags to work so no linkie to the AP article, sorry.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned Sam Nunn without making it clear that I think Obama is strong on gay rights issues and does not agree with Nunn's homophobic views. Obama has been a good progressive on GLBT issues. I very seriously doubt his respect for Sam Nunn extends to the man's homophobia. After all, I turn to my folks for advice and they are both sadly racist.

Tags: Election, Hillary, obama, Primary, VP (all tags)



Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

Cheers and jeers for my first diary.  Let me have it!

by mtnspirit 2008-08-18 09:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

Congrats on your first diary!

Do you go by mtnsnake on Democratic Underground?

by democrattotheend 2008-08-18 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

no, that's someone else.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-18 12:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

your last lines were the most meaningful to me ---  Obama has from the start been utterly tone deaf come GLBT issues. The VP stakes have just amplified that, and then for him to list Nunn as one of the 3 people he turns to for advice?!!! man, it's awfully hard to stick behind him as it is, if he choses Nunn for VP, forget it --- f'ing forget it. If Obama doesn't understand that much about a key Democratic issue then he is truly hopeless.

by swissffun 2008-08-18 09:36AM | 0 recs

Obama is the most progressive general election candidate on gay issues, ever.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 09:38AM | 0 recs
"Liar"? Stop the name calling.
Grow up.
BTW - - straight people think he's great on gay issues.  Gay folks?  Not so much.  Read the gay press.
by kosnomore 2008-08-18 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: "Liar"? Stop the name calling.

I think he's fine and I'm a fag.  The gay press doesn't speak for me.

by Vox Populi 2008-08-18 09:46AM | 0 recs
Re: "Liar"? Stop the name calling.

You must mean the WHITE gay press. They don't speak for me either.

by venician 2008-08-18 09:59AM | 0 recs
Re: "Liar"? Stop the name calling.

Why must I mean the white gay press?  Confused...

by Vox Populi 2008-08-20 07:26AM | 0 recs
It's the truth

His platform is by far the most gay-friendly of any candidate, ever.  That's just the factual truth.  Saying otherwise is lying.  

I don't consider the gay press to be representative of gays any more than mainstream press is representative of the mainstream.  They're famously annoyed with Obama for not giving them more exclusive time, when he would prefer that they come to his all-inclusive events and press coverage.  Why should gays be ghetto-ized in this day and age?

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 09:47AM | 0 recs
Re: It's the truth

Obama actually said he would push for gays to serve in the military openly.  Hillary never did say that.  In my eyes Obama is the friend of gays everywhere.  He has been stronger for gays than any of the other democratic candidate.  I never could understand why gays supported Hillary when she went out of her way to insult gays continuously.  She would not even say the word gay in any of her speeches.

by Spanky 2008-08-18 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: It's the truth

now this is just so wrong it's hard to believe this isn't just out right lies. HRC insulting gays, 'continuously'. maybe best to keep your opinion to yourself.

by swissffun 2008-08-18 10:19AM | 0 recs
I wonder

How many times do you think Hillary Clinton is on tape saying the word, "lesbian?"

Anyway, this is primary war stuff, and not worth our time.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 10:22AM | 0 recs
Re: It's the truth

That's exactly what you PUMA's should do, keep your opinions to yourselves.

by venician 2008-08-18 04:09PM | 0 recs
Re: It's the truth

What?  More propoganda, that Hillary never said that.  Read and learn: 5/ap/politics/mainD8NM55MO0.shtml

Sen. Clinton said it would be safer for the nation if openly gay soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen could wear the uniform.

"This policy doesn't just hurt gays and lesbians, it hurts all our troops and this to me is a matter of national security and we're going to fix it," Clinton said.

by TxDem08 2008-08-18 11:54AM | 0 recs
Don't go introducing facts into this.

Facts are irrelevant when bashing a Clinton.

by psychodrew 2008-08-18 04:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't go introducing facts into this.

I don't know what I was thinking.  Sorry.

by TxDem08 2008-08-19 04:46AM | 0 recs
Re: It's the truth

Obama is the most progressive GE candidate we've ever had on GLBT issues, no question.  However Spanky, your comment about Hillary is lie from beginning to end.

Obama actually said he would push for gays to serve in the military openly.  Hillary never did say that.  In my eyes Obama is the friend of gays everywhere.  He has been stronger for gays than any of the other democratic candidate.  I never could understand why gays supported Hillary when she went out of her way to insult gays continuously.  She would not even say the word gay in any of her speeches.

 I have no interest in refighting the primaries, but you just made that shit up. It boggles the mind that you got mojo for that garbage.

by Denny Crane 2008-08-18 03:36PM | 0 recs
Re: It's the truth

ah, so now it's the 'gays' fault?? man you're really going out on a limb to pump up Obama's GLBT creds.

by swissffun 2008-08-18 10:28AM | 0 recs
You're stretching

Careful, when you bend the facts like that, they often snap.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: "Liar"? Stop the name calling.

Hi. Gay folk here. Obama's fine.

As most gay people know, the 'gay press' is ridiculous and run like little fifes by wealthy 'A-Gay' old white men. They by no means represent the opinions of the diverse LGBT community.  

Obama's had some missteps and Hillary has as well, and neither is perfect on gay issues... publicly.  I think most gay people agree that they are pushing it about as far as they can for national candidates, and that at the end of either an Obama or a Clinton candidacy, we will be much further along.  Meanwhile the best change is occurring at the local and state levels.

by mikeinsf 2008-08-18 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: "Liar"? Stop the name calling.

I'm straight and I agree that Obama is not as progressive as I would like on the GLBT issue. But we've never had a nominee who was.

by democrattotheend 2008-08-18 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: "Liar"? Stop the name calling.

I'm a gay man, and part of the reason I picked Obama was his stance on GLBT issues, and his willingness to challenge homophobia within the AA community.

Maybe you need the gay press to tell you what gay people think.  I don't.  Don't presume to know my (or any other gay person's) mind.

by Dreorg 2008-08-18 12:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Liar

You are very correct. He's easily the most liberal on GLBT issues EVER.

by Dale Johnson 007 2008-08-18 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Liar

liar? wtf? chill mr.

I never compared Obama to any other GE candidate. That's a bit beside the point for me - I want him to be great on this issue regardless of other candidate measures, and that is my right! he's been lame with the anti-gay preacher friends to Nunn. this is disturbing and it's an issue for me. we all have our pet issues and that is our right.

He may be the most progressive GE candidate, ever. But he wasn't the most progressive in the primary, so if I'm gonna settle, well I'm gonna expect him to improve on this issue.

by swissffun 2008-08-18 10:26AM | 0 recs
"Anti-gay preacher friends?"

I have no idea who you're talking about.  The only preacher friends Obama's been associated with are Wright and Pfleger, who are both pro-gay.

If you're talking about McClurkin... well, that issue is so silly that it doesn't even warrant more discussion.

Anyways, you're right, he wasn't the most pro-gay candidate in the primary.  He took second to Kucinich, if I recall (of course, Dennis thinks that we should all be able to get gay married to transvestite space aliens).

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 10:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

OK Since you've thrown out. I'd like to hear why?  About the only place I believe the LGBT community could have an issues is gay marriage.

And here I understand it. He has not come out in full throated support of gay marriage.

If there are are others I liked to hear about them.

by jsfox 2008-08-18 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

Um Donnie Mclurkin anyone?  

by emmasaint 2008-08-18 10:35AM | 0 recs
I was waiting for it


by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: I was waiting for it

yep, very funny hanging about with gay-hating (curing) preachers, and not just ONE! very funny. but I get that this issue isn't important for you. why can't you get that it is for some others?

by swissffun 2008-08-18 12:16PM | 0 recs
What you don't get... that gay rights are important to me.  Very important.  That's why I made sure to learn everything I could about Obama's GLBT platform as soon as I could.

The McClurkin controversy is obviously drummed up by someday PUMAs to try to drive a wedge between gays and Obama, when he's actually better for them than Hillary Clinton ever would be.  It reminds me of the Clinton supporter who said on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart that he was "gay as the day is long" and would be voting McCain for the sole reason that Clinton wasn't the nominee.  There are no rational arguments, so you guys are forced to "sweetie" a non-issue as hard as possible.

To recap: I am very concerned about GLBT rights, and you are hilarious in your disingenuity.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 12:36PM | 0 recs
Re: What you don't get...

gladd for you  then. McClurkin happened long before the PUMA thing. and it's insulting to say that my opinions are not rational, and that I'm one of 'you guys' --- disingenous, your opinion. being so hostile is no way to change anyones opinion. telling someone their opinion is irrational is also not going to get very far. good night, and keep pushing Obama to continue being pro-GBLT in the campaign and the WH hopefully.

by swissffun 2008-08-18 12:57PM | 0 recs
Reading comprehension...

I said "someday PUMAs," meaning that the people who had a shitfit over McClurkin are the same types of people that are now holding their breath and stamping their feet about Obama not being their personal favorite, and thus unworthy of a vote.

It's entertaining that someone whose record only shows raining on Obama supporters' parade with inaccurate or disproportionate slander would call me out for hostility.  The opinions I'm trying to change are the ones who are thoughtful and open to actual debate, not people who have already made up their minds based on specious logic.  

Ah well.  G'night!

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 01:21PM | 0 recs
Re: I was waiting for it

Which preachers are we talking about?  Wright is famously pro-LGBT, following what he describes as a "conversion experience" in the 70s, and went against the conservative members of his church to start a singles night for gay and lesbian parishoners, open one of the first AIDS ministries in Chicago, etc.

by jere7my 2008-08-18 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

Yikes there's a bit of old news. However, I am  talking about where Obama stands in LGBT issues . Not what he thinks about a popular gospel singer with some rather disturbing opinions.

by jsfox 2008-08-18 10:49AM | 0 recs
Forget it?

How could anyone forget you've been spouting the same 'O I'm shocked line' for over six months now. Sooner or later people are going to cotton on.

You're always about to f'ing forget. But we aren't.

by duende 2008-08-18 11:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

Funny, part of why I, as a gay man, picked Obama is because of the strength of his platform on GLBT issues.  Only Kucinich's was stronger amongst the Dems.

by Dreorg 2008-08-18 12:50PM | 0 recs
Yes, it is a threat

I don't have any thoughts on Nunn whatsover (hee, "Nunn whatsoever!"), but suggesting that gays will stay home is a threat, and a petulant one at that.  Obama is 100% gay rights; no VP choice will change that.  

Anyone who is gay but says that they plan on staying home rather than vote for the most progressive candidate on gay rights ever is either lying or stupid.  I don't think the gay community is stupid, by and large.

Personally, I am trying not to speculate.  My favorite was always Gore, but that seems unlikely.  Clinton seems like a dumb choice that will let the Republicans use all the ammo they've built up against her inevitable run over the last 7 years.  Why validate their efforts and mobilize the rabid (and undeserving) anti-Clinton base?

Anyway, like I said, not speculating too hard.  Obama's going to make a smart choice, I'm sure of it.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 09:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, it is a threat

I am either lying or stupid, thank you very much.  I will never cast a vote for Sam Nunn.  I seriously doubt Obama would choose him anyway, but if you think I'm on a lonely limb on THIS issue, think again.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-18 09:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, it is a threat

Some people find it hard to understand that Obama's actions like everyone else's have consequences.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-18 09:48AM | 0 recs
Did Sam Nunn kill your puppy?

So, if it comes down to Obama with Nunn as VP versus McCain, you'll narrow your choices to McCain or nobody?  On the off chance that Obama gets shot the first day in office and Nunn decides to go on an anti-gay rampage?

I'd prefer to think that you're lying, because McCain is a disaster and staying home is a failure of democracy.  It's hard to believe that anyone who is thoughtful would even consider it.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Did Sam Nunn kill your puppy?

Sam Nunn killed my dream.  I wasn't sitting on the sidelines during the "Gays in the Military" debate in 1992.  I remember it all very well.  His influence and actions were far more damaging than those of Jesse Helms, IMHO.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-18 09:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Did Sam Nunn kill your puppy?

It would be a failure of democracy to condone acts that go fully against ones conscience. If Obama choses a VP he makes a trade-off, hoping that the people he will be better able to represent through that choice will outnumber the people who he won't be able to represent anymore.

mtnspirit has his conscience and moral limits and so do you. That they differ doesn't make any of  unthoughtful. Nunn's actions had a direct and profound influence on mtnspirit life and thus effects Obama's ability to represent him rightly.

If Obama choses Sam Nunn, he should account for the full effect of it, both good and bad. For you to demand that people overlook the bad aspects of somebody is far a disaster and a failure of democracy as you demand that people shouldn't be held accountable for the bad decisions and their effect on society.

It both extremely thoughtless on what effects others have suffered and ignorant of what Representative democracy actually means; the choosing of the person best suited to represent your preferences, morality and ideas for you.

mtnspirit has given a very good reason why he believes that an Obama/Nunn ticket would not qualify as such for him. For you to call him an liar, dishonest as well unthoughtful does nothing but show your own lack of civility and understanding.

by Ernst 2008-08-18 10:52AM | 0 recs
That's certainly your opinion

For the record, it's dishonest OR unthoughtful.  I don't think it would be both. :P

Listen, I don't think Nunn is going to be the guy, so I'm not too inclined to dig in my heels and fight this one out.  Suffice to say, I believe the good that could be done for GLBT people with an Obama/anyone ticket outweigh the status quo and possible persecution under McCain, and everyone should be cognizant of that fact.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, it is a threat

The attitude that people will vote for us because they have no better choice, or because they won't vote for a Republican, etc. hasn't served us too well in the last two elections.

You have to give people something to vote for.   If not they will vote against you or stay home.

You don't think gays would vote for McCain?  How many work for the Republicans in D.C. again?   Tons.   How many members does the Log Cabin Republicans boast?  A million?  

I dunno, I wouldn't a take anything for granted or we'll be scratching our heads again Wednesday morning wondering why more Americans didn't see things the same way we do.

by RichardFlatts 2008-08-18 10:11AM | 0 recs
Good thing I don't have that attitude

Because I've also said that Obama is the best candidate for gays in the history of General elections.  In the off chance that a guy gays don't like is the VP nominee, they would, theoretically, have to consider that guy to be worse for them (we're talking as a percentage chance that he'll have any power on the issue or actually become president) than Obama is good for them right off the bat (considering that he's promised to axe DOMA & DADT pretty much right away).

So, in recap: Gays don't have anywhere else to go AND would have to vote against their direct interests.

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 10:27AM | 0 recs
Here's the deal:

if Obama picks Nunn or Hagel, I'll vote for McKinney or Nader. End of discussion.

by zcflint05 2008-08-18 12:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Here's the deal:

Did we ask? NO, so who gives a shite who you're voting for. I'm tired of Hillbot threats.

by venician 2008-08-18 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Good thing I don't have that attitude

Unless the gay person in question reaally wants to bomb Iran to take out the natural enemy of his or her people, or the gay person makes wads of cash and think McCain will keep his or her taxes lower, or the gay person is older and thinks Obama is way too young, or the gay person can't beleive that Obama would wear those shoes with that suit.

My point is simple, we have assumed that we know what is rioht and good for various voters for too long, only to be shocked when we lose.

I am just saying, lets not be cute, lets not assume, lets put our best arguements on the table, lets stay true to our beliefs, and quit the over calculating.

by RichardFlatts 2008-08-18 02:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, it is a threat

I do agree that Nunn would be a bad choice for VP in terms of good relations with LGBT people.  I would be very disappointed.  That said, I doubt most will stay home on election day or vote for McCain because of it.

Anyway, Nunn won't be picked IMHO.

by mikeinsf 2008-08-18 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

"Hillary takes me WAY out on a lonely limb"

Actually, I think, the idea Clinton doesn't have a lot of support in the Obama MyDD camp for VP is just a myth.

She has a bunch of support here, sure there are some folks against her, but I think at least half of the Obama folks would be OK with the dream ticket? Most have more worries about Bill is my take from reading endless posts.

Hell, what I see is Evan Bayh and Kaine getting ripped up, not so much Hillary (again, except for  a few very vocal folks.)

And, Sam Nunn? I have seen very little support for Sam here, so I think that is not going to be greeted with great applause here, Obama OR Clinton supporter as you may be.

by WashStateBlue 2008-08-18 09:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

Actually, I think, the idea Clinton doesn't have a lot of support in the Obama MyDD camp for VP is just a myth.

I'll go out on a limb here:

On the day of the last primary, I was wholeheartedly against Hillary as VP. I was commenting on it as it happened. I believe I linked this image to express my opinion of her "go to my website" speech at the time.

After her suspending-the-campaign speech, I moved back to officially neutral, with some simmering discontent (seriously, that previous speech... whew...)

Since then I've come to a few conclusions:
-She's a decent campaigner, but took horrible, horrible advice.
-Announcing her as VP immediately would've been a cheap stunt, looked like a cheap stunt, been called a cheap stunt for six months and would've killed the "new politics" message.
-Announcing her as a VP now... Not as much of a cheap stunt. Obama's held his own in the electoral college predictors, still leading but by a smaller margin. She remained quiet but supportive and Bill only kicked Obama in the teeth once (less than the Vegas over/under). Not only that, it's unexpected and a good result for polling.

She certainly inspires a lot of people, including a lot of smart people. My lingering simmer has cooled, I think she could do well enough. And "party unity" is already around Gore/Kerry levels, so it wouldn't be a move of desperation or political trickery, but rather one of choosing the best candidate for the job now.

Or, at least, selling it like that would be plausible.

by TCQuad 2008-08-18 10:20AM | 0 recs
I will vote for Obama . . .

not enthusiastically, but I will vote for him . . . UNLESS he picks Hagel or Nunn.  Honestly, I don't know what I'd do then.  It's a bit of an existential crisis which I hope I don't confront.

by kosnomore 2008-08-18 09:39AM | 0 recs
In terms of political consequences

I can't see how you could justify that.  We are talking about the veep here, whom the constitution named the President of the Senate basically in order to give him something to do.

As a thought experiment, I would even vote for an Obama/Cheney ticket.  After setting up a Double the Secret Service fund, of course.

by corph 2008-08-18 11:44AM | 0 recs
at this point who knows....

but i agree that the VP pick for both the dem and gop will be both extremely telling and seriously affect the numbers.  not exactly sure why, but a recent poll said that to something like 30% it would make a difference how they voted - THAT'S CRAZY.

by canadian gal 2008-08-18 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: at this point who knows....

Ya this may be the first election in a while where VP decides it.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-18 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

Sam Nunn wuold be a awful pick.  When clinton won he did everything it could to undermine the progressive parts of clinton's agenda.


by giusd 2008-08-18 09:47AM | 0 recs
It's gonna be Ross Perot

Perot would be the perfect attack dog.  he loathes mcSame.

by Al Rodgers 2008-08-18 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: It's gonna be Ross Perot

Yes!  And he has all of those wonderful charts!

by mtnspirit 2008-08-18 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: It's gonna be Ross Perot

Oh God, the return of the flip chart and the "Big Sucking Sound...."

by WashStateBlue 2008-08-18 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

Advice:   Don't bet any money you can't afford to lose on Clinton being chosen the VP.

by RichardFlatts 2008-08-18 10:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

OMG, I wouldn't dare!  My political predictions usually end up being wrong. But in this case, I just have a feeling something is up with Obama's VP plans.  And I think that something is Hillary.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-18 10:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

politicalslave has been putting themselves out on a limb making this same prediction for weeks. And I'm in total agreement. It's a good prediction, but not entirely original.

Congrats on your first diary, and good luck. Saying positive things about Hillary Clinton in your first diary may not make you too popular with some people, but you're A-OK in my book.

by LakersFan 2008-08-18 10:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

Thanks LakersFan.  If I really thrived on controversy and argument (which I definitely don't) I'd post this at the big orange place and watch the fireworks.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-18 10:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

I don't think for an instant that it will be Senator Clinton, but rec'd for your second paragraph about Michelle! :)

by Nathan Empsall 2008-08-18 10:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

Isn't she GREAT?  The MSM has been very unkind to Michelle Obama.  But she's going to get some primetime coverage for the convention, and then the american public will understand just what a treasure she is.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-18 10:41AM | 0 recs

The next eight years probably won't be enough time for us to truly understand what a treasure she is.

(I admit, I have a huge crush on Michelle... Obama Girl ain't got nuthin' on her)

by Dracomicron 2008-08-18 10:48AM | 0 recs
You know...

I tend to think that Michelle may just follow in the footsteps of Hillary Clinton. She's very outspoken, and I can see her playing a role in an Obama adminstration on some major policy points and as a public spokesperson, perhaps even running for office after his terms are over. She's an excellent speaker and I think she could very well be the "next" Hillary Clinton in her own special way.

by zcflint05 2008-08-18 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

Look how quickly a simple diary about VP speculation spins out into endless negative threads, with Good democrats wasting their time against bad faithers.

This site has become a mud pit.

by duende 2008-08-18 11:25AM | 0 recs
On the subject of Nunn and "Teh Gayzzz"

I'm already uncomfortable with Barack on gay issues (but I can get over it), but Nunn or Hagel is a real deal breaker. Sorry, I don't need a homophobe a heartbeat away from the Presidency, end of discussion, and I won't help to get one there. The choice of either of those social conservatives is a direct slap in the face to gay and lesbian Americans and it's intolerable in my eyes. I really doubt he'll pick either of them, but if he does, then I will start weighing 3rd party options.

by zcflint05 2008-08-18 12:26PM | 0 recs
Nunn or Hagel

Sorry, I don't need a homophobe a heartbeat away from the Presidency, end of discussion, and I won't help to get one there.

If Senator Obama selects either Nunn or Hagel (the first being very unlikely, the second being marginally more likely a selection than Rush Limbaugh) then I'll vote for Senator Obama because, end of discussion, I WON'T HELP A HOMOPHOBE WIN THE PRESIDENCY.

And, in case you haven't noticed, the GOP is going to nominate a homophobe at the top of their ticket.  A guy who wants gay marriage in California overturned, an FMA-supporter, a guy opposed to gay adoption (though I guess that depends on what day of the week you asked him), a guy who will never relax the odious don't-ask-don't-tell, a guy eager as can be to start appointing Scalia- and Thomas-clones to the USSC.



by Collideascope 2008-08-18 04:34PM | 0 recs

If it's not Hillary, sure some might be disappointed.  The question is who among that group would actually leader-obsessed enough to stay at home or vote McCain and vote against everything  they stood for with Hillary.

My guess?  Not many at all.   Look at the PUMA numbers.  They are dismally tiny.  

The threat is just not there.  A handful of the nutty Hillary worshipers (every major politician, movie star, rock star, etc gets a few of these obsessed people that can't let go, Obama, McCain, everyone),  the ones that are one step away from carving her name into their arms, will not affect the election.

Ain't gonna happen.  

by Hill4Life 2008-08-18 12:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

I know political slave and I are both with you on the Hillary pick.

by nikkid 2008-08-18 02:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

If Obama picks Hillary, I'll vote for the ticket. If he picks Hagel, I'll vote for the ticket, but if he picks Nunn or anyone from Virginia, then I'll vote fot the ticket. Under no circumstances if he picks a woman or a man, a general or an admiral, a black or a white or a latino will I not vote for the ticket. Unless McCain picks Jindal or any other human, then I will vote for Obama and his running mate for sure.

by QTG 2008-08-18 03:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

I'm glad that you brought up Nunn's gayhating bigotry.  It's amazing that he could be considered in the first palcea and his homophobia is rarely mentioned by those geniuses in the media.  As I have said before I'm sure a lot of folks have forgotten that Nunn threatened a young President Clinton about gays serving openly in nthe military to the extent that he reportedly said you'll neverr get the budget you want past my committee.

by handsomegent 2008-08-18 03:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Greatest Head-fake in History

mtnspirit  Write more diaries. REC

by Politicalslave 2008-08-18 03:20PM | 0 recs


Advertise Blogads