Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderateness

Donna Brazile said on This Week that Jeremiah Wright is a moderate among black ministers.  He is not.  And Barack Obama has known this the whole time he has known Reverend Wright.  Wright was so radical that he could not get a job at any Baptist Church. (link):

The rebellious son of a Baptist minister, Wright was hired by Trinity United when he could find no Baptist church to take him. The congregation on 95th Street, then numbering just 87, had recently adopted the motto "Unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian." They did not mind his fiery red Afro and black power agenda.

In his 1993 memoir "Dreams from My Father," Obama recounts in vivid detail his first meeting with Wright in 1985. The pastor warned the community activist that getting involved with Trinity might turn off other black clergy because of the church's radical reputation.

The point here is not whether one should be a moderate or not.  That is a wholly separate issue.  The point is that Donna Brazile wants us to believe that Wright is a moderate even though he is not.  Why would she say that?  Perhaps for the same reason she twisted Bill Clinton's use of the word "fairytale" out of context and accused him of racism. (Video of that here.)
Donna Brazile is not the unbiased observer she pretends to be.  And she needs to be called out on that.

Update with Video:

Tags: Donna Brazile, Jeremiah Wright (all tags)

Comments

208 Comments

Donna * I will Quit DNC* Brazile

Donna Brazile is not the unbiased observer

Agree - And Nancy Pelosi to the mix

by indus 2008-03-16 12:57PM | 0 recs
Yep, yep, yep...

CNN needs to stop saying Brazile's "neutral" when she's clearly trying to cover for Obama. They always label Carville & Begala as "pro-Clinton"... So why can't they do the same with ALL their pro-Obama commentators?

by atdleft 2008-03-16 01:31PM | 0 recs
yesCNN needs 2 tell truth about Chelseas godmother

How she tricked the Clintons into letting her so close to stab them in the back is amazing. She must be another arm of the secret Muslim plot to destroy the Clintons.

by TMP 2008-03-16 04:02PM | 0 recs
Black Power is a good thing.

That Baptists did not hire him may not be a bad thing.

by TomP 2008-03-16 02:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Black Power is a good thing.

Ah yes, those Baptists would never hire a good preacher like Martin Luther King, Jr. would they?

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 03:12PM | 0 recs
That is such a non-sequiter.

Your hate is overwhleming your rational mind.

The UCC is a mainstream Protestant group.  

by TomP 2008-03-16 03:42PM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

OK..... I never said the UCC wasn't protestant.  I said Wright wasn't a moderate.  And he isn't.  So how does that make me a hater?

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 03:45PM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

It's easy. What specifically do you object to from his speeches? That Black people are oppressed in the USA?

by TMP 2008-03-16 04:07PM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

Do you mean the misinformation part, or the anti-American part, or...?

Let's start with one simple example of misinformation.  Jesus was brown-skinned, like an Arab, not black.  And if Wright doesn't think there is a difference he needs to go read how the Arabs wrongly treated the darker skinned Moors as second class.  Arabs are not black and neither was Jesus.  And even if all the Roman soldiers were from Italy, which they weren't, Italians aren't exactly white either.  So it was wrong to say that white people crucified a black Jesus.  And that is just the start of a lot of odd misinformation from someone who has two masters degrees and should know better.

But all of that is a minor quibble compared to the God D**n America part of that one sermon.  I definitely object to that.  One can have black pride without that.

Are you saying that misinformation is OK?  Or is it the hatred toward America that you approve?

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

"Jesus was brown-skinned, like an Arab, not black"

Yikes!!! But I'll take the bait. I am Black and was just in Egypt 2 moths ago. Arabs there thought I was Arab they said I had their skin tone. Also many Arabs are "Nubian".

"And even if all the Roman soldiers were from Italy, which they weren't, Italians aren't exactly white either"
While I could point out your hair splitting is quite petty I will just leave at this. Romans are European and the whole thing was what some of us like to call an analogy.

"But all of that is a minor quibble compared to the God D**n America part of that one sermon."
Yeah I guess Black people should be greatful for their treatment in the US especially those of us that were to criminal to fly ourselves out New Orleans, get our selves off of Death row after being wrongfully convicted at a rate of %50 percent or allowing White excons to be more desirable to employers than a Black male with a college degree. I LOVE THIS COUNTRY!

by TMP 2008-03-16 04:39PM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

I see you haven't read how the Arabs treated the dark-skinned Moors either.  And I see you are OK with the God d**n America statement as well, making excuses for it.  I'm sorry, but that is unacceptable to me and to by far the majority of black people I talk to.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 05:46PM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

I have read watched and listened about the moors that ran Spain and were at the vanguard of Islamic culture and world cultural up until Queen Isabela and her Husband began Christianizing the Iberian peninsula. Cordoba and Anda Lucia were the 2 most modern cities in Europe (by European standards)at the time under Islamic Moor rule. But so what? Are you saying that Wrights analogy about modern day White racism as presently directed to Arabs, Muslims, Iraqis, Blacks, etc would be better suited if he had compared White people to Arab slave traders? I guess that will work too. But in the end that particular aspect of his sermons are extremely trivial. Did you actually see a sermon or did you just see the snippets on FOX? Because I think if you actually have watched one you should be able to think of one detail that would be more substantial than what you have provided so far.

by TMP 2008-03-16 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

You missed the part I was talking about.  Around 711 AD the Arabs decided to invade Spain and basically subcontracted the invasion to the darker skinned Moors. (Tariq, the Moorish chieftain at the time, is the one for whom Gibraltar is named.)  After the Moors did the heavy lifting, the lighter-skinned Arabs came in and tried to take the best for themselves and leave the rest for the Moors.  To their credit, the Moors told the Arabs to take a hike and kept all of Spain that they had conquered, refusing to be treated as second class servants by the Arabs.  You can start reading here.

Maybe you should think about that the next time you try and defend that nonsense about white Europeans crucifying a black Jesus.  Those weren't all Europeans in the Roman army, they weren't all "white" and Jesus was a Jew, not a Nubian or other dark-skinned African.  And there is a difference.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 06:59PM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

Your argument as you have presented is so far is about a relatively obscure historical detail compared to the level of outrage. I doubt all these histrionics that have heard on cable television are due to Wrights getting his historical details correct. As such it is extremely petty and superficial. As I have said before if you have something more substantial then let me know. I dont think you are presenting the view of the average person that claims to be offened by Wrights sermons.

by TMP 2008-03-16 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

This is your answer to historical examples showing a  known difference between Arabs and people of darker skin?  An example that shows just what a load of crap that Wright's claims are?  bwahahahahahaha  Come back when you have a real refutation please. I find that part of Wright's sermon an HUGE insult to people who try to present legitimate historical detail behind biblical events.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 07:54PM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

Race is all relative anyways. Although you are most likely correct that Jesus was a Jew, and probably not a dark-skinned black person, he we are talking about the black Jeremiah Wright and the black Barack Obama, neither of whom is anything close to dark-skinned, yet we still call them black. I'm quite sure that if Moses could pass for Egyptian, if Jesus had been born in America, he could've passed for black.

by dmc2 2008-03-16 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

Yes you are right that he could have passed for black if born in the USA.  But that isn't what Wright is saying.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-17 06:37AM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

Take one look at New Orleans and Jena in a state where Democrats had ample opportunity to make a difference. Goddamn America indeeed is a fair sentiment. I don't feel quite that way, but I can understand why an African American would.

Let's face it, white people are lucky that blacks did not hunt down every racist or person who condoned the racists and mete out justice after the 60s.

Judging by these clips, I fail to see the outrage. Now he may have said some stupid crap that is not in these clips. But this diary needs to provide more instances. This youtube compilation doesnt cut it.

by Pravin 2008-03-17 02:17AM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.
The good pastor stated recently on Fox news that his church is founded on Black Liberation Theology. This is an ethno-centric variant of LIberation Theology which has been rejected by most main stream churches because it threatens sectarian authority. Liberation Theology promotes altering theological principals by individual congregations. This is why the ehnic and historical identity of a figure like Jesus could be altered by a congregation. For instance, I might decide to start a church and teach that Jesus was female. I might preach that this very fact was hidden for millenia because of the strong anti-female bias of society. This is just one of the many reasons that Liberation Theology is controversial. It is a continually evolving phenomena and is global throughout France, Latin America, Africa, Asia. I think that because Obama has stated that the good pastor introduced him to christianity and that he attended the church for at least 20 years, it is as valid a question of influence that any of the other candidates past and present have faced. Romney,JFK,Kerry etc... The good pastor was most likely rejected by the Baptists because he ascribes to Liberation Theology which is in direct contravention to the established Baptist Church. There's alot of good information on Liberation Theology and the political effects it has had over the years in some countries. It has a mixed record, but one thing it is not... It is not moderate.
Moderation is the antithesis of it's philosophical foundation. These discussions are interesting and informative.
by workingclass artist 2008-03-17 05:20AM | 0 recs
Re: That is such a non-sequiter.

ANd BTW, since you made an offhand reference to oppression and perhaps meant to refer to Cone's version of liberation theology.... Anyone who thinks that black people are the only ones oppressed in America, or that all black people are oppressed, has to wilfully ignore the poverty in Appalachia and things like the existence of a supertanker named after Condoleeza Rice, and other black multi-millionaires.  And if that person is in Chicago, he has to ignore the huge house Barack Obama lives in and his wife's six figure salary(s), not to mention all the money and property of Oprah Winfrey.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 04:37PM | 0 recs
Mike Primdore's race issues

1) No I was not talking about liberation theology. The language that Wright uses is pretty standard for  people that experience oppression. Remember Katrina?

2)Who thinks Black people are the only ones that are oppressed in America? When or who have said otherwise? I certainly know that there are many large communities that are oppressed according to gender,class and sexual preference to name just a few. Did you know that the Black Panthers attempted to organize poor Whites in Appalachia in the 70s? Or that Black and White farmers tried to found a polictical party in Oklahoma to empower rural America? American history is full of examples where White reached out to Black, Blacks reached out to Whites, Native American, Latinons. However what I find interesting is that you bring up White class oppresion as an excuse to dismiss and invalidate legit criticisms of the disenfranchisement of Blacks in this country. The sad things that  have been happening in Appalachia does not justify what has been happening to Black all over the country. That point you try to make by brining up Oprah Winfrey and the Super tanker named after C.R.is quite ridiculous. Black people are still pulled over in much higher number, are wrongfully on death row in greater numbers etc etc.  I recently saw a study that employers would rather employ a White excon with no college education than a Black applicant with a College degree. And Hurricane Katrina? Do you think if the media hadn't presented that as a Black disaster. Naming the few exceptions does not signify anything.

by TMP 2008-03-16 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Mike Primdore's race issues

I brought up liberation theology because Wright says he follows James Cone.  The idea of black equalling oppressed is part of that discussion.  Not all black people are oppressed.  And not only black people are oppressed.  I am not trying to downplay legitimate discussions of disenfranchisement of black people.  Certainly there is still plenty to talk aobut there.  But I am trying to further rational discussion divorced from the hyperbole I see in the writings of Cone.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-17 06:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Black Power is a good thing.

Not when it comes at the expense of painting another Democrat as a racist.

by owl06 2008-03-16 07:46PM | 0 recs
yes all us Black's stick togther.

Steinam, Ferraro, NOW et al are being cooly objective in their well reasoned support of Hillary Clinton the individual not the female candidate.

by TMP 2008-03-16 04:06PM | 0 recs
lets look at your comment

"She's about as neutral as Oprah."

Basically you are saying that Chelsea Clinton's Godmother is biased against Chelsea's mother, Hillary Clinton, because Donna Brazille who is a Black woman points out a common feature of Black culture? Basically saying that the rhetoric that Wright used is a very common aspect of Black culture is now considerd pro-Obama. So what next if Black people pointing out that there was a Civil right movement will signify our pro-Obmama bias?

"Wow you must be paranoid to distort a comment like that. Oh ya right you support Obama."

No that is what you initial comments suggested.

by TMP 2008-03-16 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: lets look at your comment

Anyone who's been watching CNN at all for the past year knows exactly what that comment was about. You can repeat the godmother business as much as you like, but it's been very clear for months that Donna Brazile definitely leans Obama, whether she's announced it or not.  Nothing wrong with that, but let's not pretend.

by Denny Crane 2008-03-16 08:11PM | 0 recs
Re: lets look at your comment

Saying "God damn america" is not a part of black culture. Speak for yourself when you support such statements.

by devil 2008-03-17 06:40AM | 0 recs
Re: lets look at your comment

Yes it is. From big names like Malcolm x, Jesse Jackson etc to average people talking at the dinner table this is a common sentiment. If I were to walk out of my front door right now and ask the average person walking in front of my house in my Black neighborhood and randomly asked passers by, the over whelming odds are most people would agree with that statement.

by TMP 2008-03-17 06:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

If Wright is a "moderate" what the hell is going on that Brazile finds extreme?

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-03-16 12:57PM | 0 recs
LOL - Good Question!

I hate to think of the answer to that question!

by Shazone 2008-03-16 01:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

MODERATE?

Wright said FDR lied about Pearl Harbor and by choice and actions ALLOWED THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN BOYS TO BURN TO DEATH.
ON PURPOSE..

Wright said the US government created the HIV virus in order to purposefully cause a global genocide to kill tens of millions of people of color.

Wright said "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye....We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians .. and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."

BTW, that chicken line is verbatim of what Malcolm X said about the "justice" of the murder of JFK you know.

Any comment from Teddy on that?

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-16 01:50PM | 0 recs
Any chance that

in a zealous attempt to continue the unending spin (from both sides) of this campaign we are failing to distinguish between fiery rhetorical hyperbole and firm, honestly held beliefs?

Nah.

by UrbanRedneck 2008-03-16 02:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Any chance that

Speaking of unending spin....

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Any chance that

Any chance that...

in a zealous attempt to continue the unending spin (from both sides) of this campaign we are failing to distinguish between fiery rhetorical hyperbole and firm, honestly held beliefs?

Nah.

Are you saying words don't matter?

by Denny Crane 2008-03-16 08:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Here is a simple test. Just ask Obama if he believes in every one of those statements. If he hesitates to answer, then nail him.

by Pravin 2008-03-17 02:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate
I've watched Obama on various news programs and I read his reponse to the Wright rhetoric. My concern is that he is parsing. He seeks to seperate himself from the good pasotrs' firery rhetoric and yet not from the church. The foundation of his church is Ethno-Centric Liberation Theology. The good pastors'
sermons reflect this and sermons that propound similar ideas will continue in the church if this church retains it's principals. Since the very foundation of this philosophy is the mixing of politics and religion through activism. Is this wrong? Maybe not but since the beginning of the Roman Catholic Church, the erroneous historical distortion propagated in christianity that the Jews killed Jesus led to anti-semitism throughout the world. It's only recently that Pope John Paul II formally recognized the church's error and sought reconciliation with the Jewish community. Biblical historians and scholars have sought to correct the distortion. It is plain to see how history can be distorted and used to great effect to promote a particular agenda. Most people don't study the Roman Empire and as a result have no clue how much history effects the present. Aside from being interesting reading, it does remind me how fine a line there is when todays' perspective is applied to history without caution. Words do matter especially through repetition and distortion. By the way, in Ancient Rome, there was no black and white per say; only tribes, religions and regions. Race was defined as much by religion ( Jews ) as tribe ( Germans,Celts ) or region ( Egyptian, Gaul ). To the Romans it was Romans ( citizens of Rome proper ) and everyone else who were considered Other and in client relationship with the empire. To the Romans it was about the class structure and stability. The historical Jesus and his followers threatened both. The Jews were always a threat to both because of the practice of nationalist religion which always baffled the Romans and was unique in the ancient world.
by workingclass artist 2008-03-17 06:07AM | 0 recs
I am so over this ridiculous woman

and the media.  Obama is a disaster for us in November and the media is determined to get him the nomination.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-03-16 03:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

"If Wright is a "moderate" what the hell is going on that Brazile finds extreme?"

Human sacrifice, perhaps?

by Scan 2008-03-16 03:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Wow... the Democratic icons are dropping like flies in the blogosphere these days...

I still listen to Donna...  I like hearing her perspective on things...  I've never run a campaign, she has...  

by JenKinFLA 2008-03-16 08:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Yeah - that's exactly it. She's all about human sacrifice.

Honestly, do you all read what you write before hitting "post"? Or do you just spew vile crap and leave it at that?

by Elise 2008-03-16 09:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Read it again. I'm speculating about what she would find extreme in a church service. Its a JOKE!

by Scan 2008-03-16 10:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

I used to like Brazile because I thought she was a fair, neutral Democrat, but it is become increasingly clear that she is working in the media, on CNN and ABC to tout Obama; just see, everytime anyone mentions that Obama is helped by his race in MS, AL, VA, she counters strongly and you can see the anger on her face. CNN should fire her just like they did Carville and Begala as per the request by the Obama Camp.

by American1989 2008-03-16 01:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

At a minimum, CNN should be responsible enough to identify Brazile as an Obama supporter and not portray her as an independent Democratic strategist.

by ricardo4 2008-03-16 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

and both Donna Brazille and Howard Dean should resign from DNC for obviously shaping (to put it mildly) the presidential primary outcome from the outset by forcing FL and MI out of the race.  like MSM they chose their candidate early on and did all in their power to push him into becoming the party's nominee.

by moevaughn 2008-03-17 04:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

Donna's spinning it to make her candidate look better in the eyes of some pretty disgusted Americans.  This story has the potential to kill Obama's 2008 run, and Brazile knows it.  But no matter what she says, she's powerless to stop the inevitable.  Stick a fork in it---Obama's done.

by izarradar 2008-03-16 01:04PM | 0 recs
You're right

An overdone phrase---No pun intended.  Thanks for your excellent editing skills.

by izarradar 2008-03-16 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

How could she appear on CNN, ABC, MSNBC...etc as a "neutral" democratic strategist? I thought she was working for Obama. Apprently she does not even have the title of 'Obama supporter' yet.

It is quite comical to see Pelosi and Brazile pretending to be "neutral" in this race while injecting pro-Obama point of view in the media. Quite shameless.

by praxis1 2008-03-16 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

"Donna Brazile said on This Week that Jeremiah Wright is a moderate among black ministers.  He is not."

I was expecting you to followup why why or how you've come to the conclusion that he is not.

by poserM 2008-03-16 01:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

I was expecting you to read the diary before commenting.  I guess we're both disappointed.  Even if I hadn't included two quotes showing that among black churches he is not considered a moderate, I could have added my own experiences to the diary.  I attended a black church when I was in undergrad in the 80s and later worked with black ministers during 10 years of ministry experience, including getting an advanced degree in religion.  I even spoke at a black church.  After hearing Wright's sermons, I didn't need any other confirmation to know he wasn't a moderate.  But I provided that for those wouldn't accept my own experience.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Neither of your quotes address the issue.

You first quote makes no comparison to whether he is less or more moderate then other BLACK ministers. It is a comment about "Baptist church."

Are you saying that no Baptist church would take him because he was not a moderate or mainstream BLACK baptist minister? Because your quoted comment doesn't say that. It says NOT BAPTIST CHURCH WOULD TAKE HIM. The rest, like your entire diary, is left to inferences and innuendos.

Your second quote says that Obama recounted that Wright "warned the community activist that getting involved with Trinity might turn off other black clergy because of the church's radical reputation."

AGAIN, where does this say that it would turn off other moderate, conservative, radical, mainstream etc. black clergy?

Sorry, but we are all left, AGAIN, to assume what you would would like us to believe. That he actually meant to say "... getting involved with Trinity might turn off [MOST or pperhaps the vast majority of] black clergy because of the church's radical reputation."

Notice the difference? You should go get some proof and come back.

by poserM 2008-03-16 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

OK, when you eliminate Baptists, you can't compare him to MLK at all.  And if you eliminate Baptists, you have taken out all kinds of Baptists, from conservative to liberal.  Third, his black power agenda is immoderate in other protestant denominations, not to mention Catholic.  You see all kinds of black ministers wearing robes, but hardly any dashikis.  I happen to agree with Wright about his opposition to those who preach a gospel of wealth, but opposition to that is not what makes him radical.  Finally, the word radical is used by Wright himself as self-descriptive, so he admits to not being moderate.  When you say he does not say who he is comparing himself to, I have to say the context implies he means radical compared to the whole of black congregations.

Where do you think he would be considered a moderate?  I know ministers from all kinds of black churches and I can't think of a single one who would consider him a moderate.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 02:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

He grew that church from 87 people to over 8000 member's today. He must have done something right to have that size of a church.

Are you saying that all of those black member's are radical and should be condemned for belonging to that church.

by BDM 2008-03-16 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Well, the ones who were jumping up and down and dancing when he said God d**n America certainly make me nervous.  As for condemning them, that isn't even what I said about Wright.  I simply said he isn't moderate.  I'm not condemning anyone.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 02:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

I comdemn as a Christian and Black. Obama pastor is not moderate at all and he is not a using Christian Theology...it's his own brand of Hate the "blue eye" devil.

Anyone that says this man is a moderate must is saying Martin Luther King Jr. is like this same man.

by carbynew 2008-03-16 03:40PM | 0 recs
Re: mlk

I really like your consensus quote from MLK.  Thank you.
by moevaughn 2008-03-17 04:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Have any of you people actually read stuff by King?  There's plenty in King that I'm sure you all would find "racist" and "hate-filled," etc., if you were of a mind to.

Second, and slowly now - the guy is affiliated with a mostly white, mainline protestant organization.  If he's such an outrageous racist, why has he maintained ties with a mostly white national church for so many years?

by jlk7e 2008-03-17 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Jerry Fallwell founded Thomas Road Baptist Church with 35 members, and it has grown to over 24,000 members today. By your measure, I guess Fallwell must have done even more things right than Wright, huh?

Hateful ideas are not somehow cleansed by the fact that their originator can get followers to believe them. Just the opposite, IMHO. Spreading the hate to more people just makes it worse.

by itsthemedia 2008-03-16 11:46PM | 0 recs
I read the whole post

and the article from the link provided.

While I may disagree with your conclusion, I have deeper concerns with your methods.  I simply fail to understand how two isolated statements, taken from widely disparate places in a fairly long and generally positive story on Rev. Wright - a story that appeared in the uber-conservative Chicago Tribune, constitutes "proof" for your assertion that Ms. Brazile is "lying."

Moreover, while your experience in religious communities, may make it possible for you to express an opinion that Brazile is being disingenuous, it, similarly, does not constitute "proof."

by UrbanRedneck 2008-03-16 02:02PM | 0 recs
whaaaaaaaaa??

you are kidding right?  You aren't some low information, TV gives you all your news", casual observer.  You are here on Al Gore's internets, you have seen the videos.  What exactly do you need explained to you? In what way do you think he is moderate?  Do you think there are black preachers out there preaching "kill whitey" or what?  How could this joker be less moderate?

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-03-16 03:16PM | 0 recs
Looks to me like real right wingers

now supporting Clinton?

Of does it matter so long as you can destroy the Democratic Party.  Good job spreading hate.

by TomP 2008-03-16 01:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Looks to me like real right wingers

OK, which rightwinger are you talking about?  And how is this comment relevant to the diary?

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 01:21PM | 0 recs
HUH?!

by atdleft 2008-03-16 01:27PM | 0 recs
HUH?!

How is Mike "spreading hate" by pointing out that Jeremiah Wright is no "moderate" when he spews his crazy hate from his pulpit?

by atdleft 2008-03-16 01:28PM | 0 recs
Re: HUH?!

Because he is doing the job of the right-wing nuts? And we, as Democrats, should all stand together in defense against right-wing smears, even if we are in the midst of a primary?

by marcotom 2008-03-16 01:41PM | 0 recs
Re: HUH?!

So you are saying we should call a lie the truth?  Yeah that's really gonna beat the Republicans in November.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 03:15PM | 0 recs
that's nuts
he is not doing the job of right wingers.  He and all the rest of us know that the right wing is saving this shit up to crucify us with in November.  
Do you think they wouldn't know all of this without Clinton supporters?  That's just naive.
And screw that anyway.  Obama has tried his best to damage Clinton.  You should take the damn plank our of your own eye.
by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-03-16 03:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Looks to me like real right wingers

Donna Brazile is working to destroy the party. If she's a dem who says that Wright is a moderate she damages both AA's and the party. I think most people would see Wright as an extreme radical bordering on tin foil hat territory.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-16 04:25PM | 0 recs
Can we write CNN? Jamal is for Obama too

This is so ridiculous, I am so fed up with people pretending to be neutral.

by catfish1 2008-03-16 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Can we write CNN? Jamal is for Obama too

At least they label him as an Obama supporter there.  Donna should also be labeled.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 01:23PM | 0 recs
maybe we should wear patches 2 indentify ourselves

You dispassionate Hillary supporters can make it a law so that you can tell which one of us are Obama supporters and not real people like you.

by TMP 2008-03-16 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re: maybe we should wear patches 2 indentify ourse

puhleeze They identify those who are known supporters of both candidates.  This is not some "mark of the beast" as you seem to think, but rather honest labeling of those political commentators giving their prespective.  Have you not been watching TV and noticed the labels?

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 05:52PM | 0 recs
Re: maybe we should wear patches 2 indentify ourse

Could it actually be that Donna Brazille, Chelsea Clinton's godmother, has a legitimate and valid perspective as a Black woman that informs her opinions on Black cultural matters? Has things gotten so bad in the pro-Hillary camp that a Black woman pointing out something that is true about Black culture is some how pro-Obama?  

by TMP 2008-03-16 06:58PM | 0 recs
Re: maybe we should wear patches 2 indentify ourse

Nope. Brazile is lying.  And if I were most black people I would be angry with her for saying Wright was moderate among black Christians.  It makes others look bad too.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 08:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Can we write CNN? Jamal is for Obama too

Yes, but Jamal is clearly identified as an Obama supporter, and he makes no bones about it.

by Denny Crane 2008-03-16 08:19PM | 0 recs
Poor Donna- she is really stuck in the middle

but her leaning is obvious.

by roseeriter 2008-03-16 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1mKHkz6A3Fk&amp;hl=en"&gt;&lt;/param&gt&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1mKHkz6A3Fk&amp;hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

by Gabriele Droz 2008-03-16 01:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Whoops, tried to embed video, didn't work.

Oh Donna, oh Donna.  I'll miss you.

Link instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mKHkz6A3 Fk

by Gabriele Droz 2008-03-16 01:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

I think Donna Brazile knows she's more help to Obama as a 'neutral' commentator than as an endorser.

Pelosi is doing a good impression of backing Obama, coming out against a joint ticket and taking his side over FL and MI.

What Obama's pastor thinks, and what Obama thinks aren't necessarily the same. This guy isn't a moderate, but i don't see why this should be a major problem for Obama. It doesn't bother me.

by liberalj 2008-03-16 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

Obama's lack of committment to UHC bothers me, the fact the Republicans are going to rip him apart on national security bothers me, the fact he seems to believe every attack on him is illegitimate bothers me....

But this not so much. His pastor has some crazy views. Obama has disavowed them.

by liberalj 2008-03-16 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

I do THINK. Still, this doesn't personally bother me too much.

What does bother me is that this kind of thing will bother a lot of people, and i'm starting to worry that Obama is going to crash and burn in the GE.

by liberalj 2008-03-16 01:57PM | 0 recs
HUH?

In an effort to urge you to take your own advice ("THINK"):

What, exactly, is this "central belief" that "Wright says?"

"[P]robably a Black Separatist."  Where do you find, anywhere in Obama's words, his writing, his speeches or his work as a legislator any support for this as hominem assertion?  

Your whole comment in nothing more than a transparent rant utilizing guilt by association tactics which have little place in civil political discourse.  

by UrbanRedneck 2008-03-16 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

Would this sermon bother you:

And don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as his divine, messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with judgment, and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, "You're too arrogant! And if you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I'll place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name. Be still and know that I'm God."

by BDM 2008-03-16 01:58PM | 0 recs
Somebody give me an

Amen.

by UrbanRedneck 2008-03-16 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

Pretty much the same thing that Falwell and Robertson and plenty of radical fundamentalist ministers said down here after 9/11. They all believe that we deserved those attacks.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-16 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

That sermon was given by Martin Luther King JR in 1968.

The comments above show that you would not respect Dr. King and that he would not be respected by white america today according to your post.you. Funny how over time he has been honored and quoted by even right wing America

by BDM 2008-03-16 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

Where is the part where he said "God d**n America"? O wait, he didn't.  And that last part is a quote from the Bible.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 08:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

If you don't think that it looks completely different in today's prism then you don't see any problem with Wright I guess.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-17 05:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile

I'm a Buddhist, but I don't see a problem with that. Is that Dr. King?

by Denny Crane 2008-03-16 08:22PM | 0 recs
because Obama is LYING

about how close they are and that he never heard Wright say any of this... that is such bullshit and just more in a long line of lies from this man.
It will hurt him in the GE and if he is the nominee you can look forward to a 50 win by McCain.

Obama had choices and he went to this church for 20 years and he had this man perform all the most important ceremonies of his life.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-03-16 03:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

"Lying" is a pretty weighty charge. You'd better back it up: prove she's lying rather than just plain wrong - they're hardly the same thing.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-03-16 01:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

A lie is a lie.  What she said is not true.  Therefore it is a lie.  Whether it is an intentional lie is for others to say.  But it is a lie.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 01:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

The definition of "a lie" is more than "something that is not true." If a kid gets an 75 on his math test, that means 25% of what he said on the test was not true - does that make him a liar?

Per Random House via Dictionary.com, the first definition if a lie is "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood." The other definitions are all similar - so there's no such thing as an unintentional lie.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-03-16 01:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Missing 25% of a math test makes you a "C" student at math.  It has nothing to do with truthfulness.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 03:07PM | 0 recs
Re:

Did anyone hear Mark Halperin's prediction at the end of the show?  (hint:  Edwards will endorse  (fill in the blank) before NC primary.

by moevaughn 2008-03-16 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re:

I watched the show but did not hear Mark's prediction. What did he say

by indus 2008-03-16 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re:

Hillary

by moevaughn 2008-03-17 04:38AM | 0 recs
Re:

There is nothing on his "thepage" though, that seems kind of weird, because he usually puts out everything he knows there.

by marcotom 2008-03-16 02:07PM | 0 recs
If Edwards or Gore endorse Obama

at this point, I will have lost faith in their judgment.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-03-16 03:33PM | 0 recs
Re: If Edwards or Gore endorse Obama

I feel the same re: Clinton.

by elrod 2008-03-16 04:46PM | 0 recs
Too bad Edwards didn't endorse

when his endorsement might have actually meant something. The vast majority of his supporters have already gone to other candidates. What's the point now?

by Elise 2008-03-16 09:57PM | 0 recs
Re:

Hillary

by moevaughn 2008-03-17 04:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying

I do feel for her, even though she's quite able to misquote and mischaracterize Hillary. She wants Obama and with Wright there is now no chance, there is no way he can win against the pug attack machine if he can't even withstand friendly questions. If he had it wrapped up we'd be already stuck with him and just fighting McCain, without the option of getting a more electable and more experience and vetted candidate.  Vice presidents drop out over scandals but not presidential candidates.  But Donna spun too much already, she spun Bill Clinton as racist by taking his comment on the fairly tale out of context and so she's made herself untrustworthy.  Now she comes out with this whooper and she can only blame herself that it's not her first, or second.  Third strike, she's out. She needs to present herself on tv as officially partisan and stop pretending neutrality where she has none.  

by anna shane 2008-03-16 01:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

I wish Clinton supporters would settle on whether Obama is a secret Republican or a far left radical.

by politicsmatters 2008-03-16 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

I'd say both... depending on what audience he is pandering to.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Examples would be most helpful.  Thanks!  

by politicsmatters 2008-03-16 01:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Reaching out and asking people to be "Democrats for a day" on one side and then claiming to be a liberal progressive on the other seems to me to be claiming both.  One stance implies he is a moderate.  The other implies he is a liberal.  And both constituencies will be disappointed with what they get.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Asking for Republicans to support you doesn't make you a Republican. Under that standard, Ronald Reagan was a Democrat.

by politicsmatters 2008-03-16 06:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Clinton never lies and his a goddess that we all need to bow down and worship.

by BDM 2008-03-16 02:00PM | 0 recs
Oh...

...consider yourself showered with mojo for that one.

by Soitgoes 2008-03-16 02:21PM | 0 recs
That Mojo Goes to Mike...Of course! eom

by Soitgoes 2008-03-16 02:22PM | 0 recs
nice strawman

those are not the only choices.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-03-16 03:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

Since watching her say the words this morning I have been thinking about what she meant to convey by her comment. If she meant to make Wright appear to be more normal for a black minister I think she made a huge mistake. Because if he is normal that in itself sets a horrible example. And what does that say for the more radical (by her definition) black ministers. Does she think that somehow this is going to make people feel more comfortable with a black nominee?

by Fleaflicker 2008-03-16 01:39PM | 0 recs
Wow! That video is just a small sampling of what's

headed Obama's way by the repugs should he win the nomination. Obama is damaged goods now. Sorry Obama supporters, but if you don't see this, what's it gonna take?

by Rumarhazzit 2008-03-16 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderate

I think Donna Brazile has been a neutral Democratic strategist and has defended both Clinton and Obama on This Week and CNN against Republican arguments.  Today she was defending Obama, since he was the subject.  As an African American she was also trying to explain the point about generational differences among pastors in AA churches.  But, saying Wright was moderate just doesn't sound right to me, and more importantly wasn't a helpful argument for Obama.  In reality, I don't think there is a good argument to be made.  Obama's campaign took a crippling hit this week.  His electibility against McCain may be irrevocably damaged.

by snarbagel 2008-03-16 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Wright and Obama

I've seen several commentators suggesting Wright is moderate.  The video making the rounds certainly brings that into question.  If you add the contents of the commentary to the presentation style I can see how it might cause fear among people not familiar with AA churches.  If Obama had demonstrated even a fraction of Wright's behavior over the course of this campaign I agree he would likely be done. Since he has demonstrated anything but in own behavior, I think this will pass.  Certainly compares with a few of the right wing preachers endorsing McCain.  I know I've disagreed strenuously with things I've heard sitting in church over the years.      

by Rick in Eugene 2008-03-16 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Wright and Obama

since their relationship span over 20 years and Wright is a significant figure in Obama's life, my question is how much they have in common.

So far I couldn't get a clear picture.

by JoeySky18 2008-03-16 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Wright and Obama

You didn't want to get a clear picture, it seems. Obama has been very clear about this. Read his books if you don't know where he is coming from on this.

by marcotom 2008-03-16 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Wright and Obama

Obama says he never heard any of the sermons where these things were said.  He will be shown to be a liar all this coming week.   After that, it will not matter how much he has in common with Wright.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Wright and Obama

If that happens, you have a point. But until then, you don't.

by marcotom 2008-03-16 04:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Wright and Obama

It already happened really. Newsmax visited last July and Obama was there. (link) And Obama sat in the pew and nodded while Wright was doling out hate speech.  And according to various rightwing sources I found through google, Newsmax will start pushing this story tomorrow, at the start of the weekly news cycle.  And the rest will soon be history.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 06:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Wright and Obama

You believe Newsmax A RIGHT WING PUBLICATION FOR YOUR SOURCE.

by BDM 2008-03-16 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Wright and Obama

I thought Obama supporters liked Republicans?  Anyway, they say they were there and Wright was doing his thing and Obama was nodding in agreement.  Why would they make up something that could be easily disproved?  You are really grasping at straws on this, tiny little straws.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 07:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Wright and Obama

This is the fatal mistake of most Obama supporters. They see the Wright thing the same as McCain's Hagee endorsement. It's not. Obama attended that church for 20 years listening to those sermons and donating money. McCain did no such thing w/r/t Hagee. Trying to equate them makes Obama look even worse.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-16 04:33PM | 0 recs
McCain/Hagee is MUCH WORSE than Obama/Wright

Jeremiah Wright is a complicated man with some paranoid political views. But he's a very well-respected theologian in the United Church of Christ, a mostly white denomination. Obama came to Wright while doing community organizing in Chicago. Wright turned Obama to Jesus and counseled his family for years. Obama was undoubtedly exposed to Wright's afrocentric theology, though how rhetorically excessive when Obama was in attandance is hard to say. Read the Audacity to Hope sermon and you can see the appeal of Jeremiah Wright to anybody. Obama decided that the fellowship and pastorship of Wright outweighed the strident afrocentrism of Wright's politics. Lots of other highly respected blacks in Chicago decided the same.  Most importantly, Obama didn't turn to TUCC or Wright BECAUSE of those incendiary sermons. He turned to Wright for reasons that most people turn to preachers.

But McCain made a decision to seek Hagee's support and declare Rod Parsley a spiritual adviser AFTER knowning the two preachers' bigotry. In fact, I would argue that McCain turned to Hagee and Parsley BECAUSE they were bigots and had appeal among the fundamentalist base in the GOP that he needed for support. McCain's embrace of these preachers was far more cynical and wicked than Obama's relationship with Wright.

by elrod 2008-03-16 04:53PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain/Hagee

Wright is electoral poison. Anyone who gets up and screams "GD America" is not worth defending.

Obama knew about Wright's bigotry but continued to go to that church and take his children and wife with him. I now know that Michelle meant exactly what she said when she said "for the first time in my life I'm really proud of my country". She's been hearing this stuff in church and thinks it's acceptable. No one in their right mind believes that Obama went to that church for decades and didn't know what was going on. That just is beyond ridiculous. Even if you believed he didn't know, you would have to think that he's absolutely too clueless to run a country right?

Once again, did McCain have a decades long association with Hagee and call him a mentor? Did he give money to Hagee's church? No to all those. Trying to rationalize Obama's idiocy by using McCain just makes McCAin look better in comparison.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-16 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain/

Would it be okay if Hillary and Bill were married by David Duke? Went to his church for two decades? Called him their spiritual mentor? OF COURSE NOT!!! It would be horrible. What if David Duke did some sermons on inclusiveness and tolerance? Would that make everything alright? OF COURSE NOT!

The apologia for Wright is really over the top. Obama is stuck with the guy.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-16 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Brazile tries to act like she's fair but it is so obvious she is not.  If you recall, she is the one who stirred up all the racial rhetoric about Bill Clinton around New Hamsphire time I think.   Bottom line, if Hillary had attended for 20 years a church with a white supremacist as the minister, there is not explanation she or her supporters could give that would satisfy the media or her opponents so why does Obama get a pass?

by MidwestTracker 2008-03-16 01:59PM | 0 recs
this is stupid...

saying that "he could find no Baptist church to take him" only means that at the time he inquired to those church's search committees, none hired him.  this is not atypical for young ministers in churches where the dominations don't control itinerant ministries.  to imply that this natural occurrence proves that he is no moderate is the greatest leap in logic i've ever seen...

by bored now 2008-03-16 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: this is stupid...

Someone with family connections like his have a definite advantage.  MLK was a young black preacher with similar connections once and he found work...... and in a Baptist Church.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's
I think this is a brillant tactical ploy by Team Obama. They have offloaded all the dirty laundry. Look this Wright issue was always out there. It didn't come as a surprise, i'm glad it did though. Obama as smart as he is will handle it. This is his big test.
At least we know he is not a Muslim. That smear is now buried.
We can move on. Look the same will be said when the Repugs find all the millions of money the Arabs have donated to the Clinton. That will be a BIG scandal.
by IsaacM 2008-03-16 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Oh, do provide the evidence to back up your claim.  we are all very eager to know the details.

by JoeySky18 2008-03-16 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

I don't think this is the end of the discussion of Wright.  Rather, I think it is just the beginning.  Obama said in various interviews that he was never there when these incendiary sermons were given.  This next week there will be all sorts of discussion of the fact that he was indeed there.  I have seen some of it already.  Obama mishandled this very badly with that disprovable simple lie.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's
I predict within a week most people will have forgotten about it.
by Becky G 2008-03-16 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

HA!!!

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 03:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Dreaming. They are writing up scripts and getting the media for the ads on the other side ready for later. They will be funded by wingnuts over the net to make it seem like its a grassroots thing. Get ready for your education into GE politics, along with Obama, if he gets the nomination.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-03-16 06:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

But Wright's theology (as distilled in these excerpts) seems premised on the idea that "whites" are the source of all evil in the world (They crucified the "black" Jesus) and, therefore, is parallel to that of Elijah Muhammad and the Nation of Islam with their "white devils".  

For what it's worth, Italians, Spaniards, Slavs and the Irish (among other "European" groups) were not considered "white" until very recently.  The racial distinctions we live with today were themselves fairly recent constructs usually  with the sole aim of boasting Northern Protestants over the mongrelized  Catholics they were at war with.

The Rev John Hagee is the flip side of Rev Wright, as his kind of Rapture theology is, fundamentally, the same demented theology behind aberrations like the Christian Identity Movement.

I cannot share the optimism that this will pass or that Sen Obama has (or can ever) satisfactorily explain or distance himself from it.

Even if Sen Obama might not have paid attention to the sermons of Rev Wright, it seems to me pretty clear that Michelle has.  Her comment back in Nov., before we had all realized just what despicable racists the Clintons were, back when Sen Clinton was well in the lead among African Americans - and, obviously had a lot to gain by race-baiting - when she said "Black America will wake up and get it."

What was the "it" that they would get? That the post-racial candidate deserved the support of  American blacks simply because he too was black?

The people who dragged race into this primary season were Obama's surrogates (like Donna Brazile  willfully distorting Bill Clinton's words) who did it to ensure that Blacks would have no choice - as a point of honor - to vote for anyone else.

Frankly, I found Rev Wright's cry, "Hillary ain't never been called a nigger" shocking.  And before you tell me I have no understanding or sympathy for what blacks have suffered, just remember, the same thing could be said of Sen Obama's mother...not so acceptable now, is it?

To the Rev Wright (and the Rev Hagee and all the other religious nutjobs seperation of church and state once shielded our politics from) I can say but one thing:

"He who sows the wind, reaps the whirlwind"

by PadraigPearse 2008-03-16 05:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Let him get reaped. The "Jesus was black" thing is gonna play out too; whom, that is a real Christian, would care? Well, I guess this belief does, and it'll probably be taken as offensive by a bunch of white Christians. Is Obama gonna get that asked to him if he believes it? Man, what a time.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-03-16 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Jerome do you honestly believe Jesus Christ is a light brown haired blue eyed human being?p

He was Jewish and probably dark sknned due to the part of the world that he came from.

White people don't like to acknowledge this truth.

by BDM 2008-03-16 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Dark like an Arab but not black.  Wright (and those who defend his historical inaccuracy) is the one not acknowledging the truth but rather trying to replace it with a falsehood that he finds more pleasing.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 08:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Dark as Obama or Jeremiah Wright?

by dmc2 2008-03-16 08:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

After looking back over my comments I see that they could easily be interpreted as racist.  So let me step back a little and try to explain what I am saying.  James Cone, and his follower Wright, place a lot of emphasis on this "Jesus is black" theme.  Sometimes Cone seems more ambiguous than other times but in general I find this characterization misleading.  Certainly a lot of Arabs and Jews are very close in skin tone to Obama and Wright, both of whom are comparatively light-skinned.  So Jesus may well have been close to them in skin tone.  What I am more concerned about is the effort to say that white people were oppressing black people when they killed Jesus, something Wright clearly said in that one sermon and has said at other times.  There were lots of motives for the killing of Jesus, but race was most certainly not one of them.  It seems to have been more of a power issue than anything else.  This isn't about skin tone but about false representation of that historical event.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-17 06:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Late response here I don't know if you'll pick this up, but I don't think anyone is saying that white people killed Jesus as a black person. The point is more about analogy, i.e. black people = any oppressed group in history.

by dmc2 2008-03-19 09:22AM | 0 recs
Umm

He's an African American minister.  If whites are freaked out by his "rants," then only their own ignorance of the African American experience in America is to blame.

by UrbanRedneck 2008-03-16 02:30PM | 0 recs
baloney

I lived with a black man for several years.  I went to many black churches in my life and there is nothing moderate about wright.  

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-03-16 03:32PM | 0 recs
Re: baloney

What exactly didn't you like about his sermons?

by marcotom 2008-03-16 04:24PM | 0 recs
Re: baloney

You know, the part that really got to me was when he was in the middle of calling out whites and said "I'm still in the bible", as if the bible justified everything in his vile remarks.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-03-16 06:32PM | 0 recs
write to Donna Brazile

Here is Donna Brazile's email address:
dlb42@georgetown.edu

Her Company's email here:
info@ brazileassociates.com

by prisonbreak 2008-03-16 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: write to Donna Brazile

Disgusting. Will someone please ban this creature?

by amiches 2008-03-16 03:01PM | 0 recs
why?

she is a public figure.  she goes on TV and tries to influence public thinking.  Why shouldn't she get some emails regarding her lies?

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-03-16 03:37PM | 0 recs
Re: why?

Her lies? Who are you to call her a lier!

by marcotom 2008-03-16 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: why?

a sentient being perhaps?

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 04:48PM | 0 recs
Re: why?

Who are you to call her a lier!

Who does she need to be?  Do we need special dispensation from someone?

by Denny Crane 2008-03-16 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: write to Donna Brazile

I don't see anything wrong with giving out a public figures email addy. She's on TV every day - what's the big secret? Progressives start email writing campaigns all the time.  Hard to do that without an address.

by Denny Crane 2008-03-16 08:31PM | 0 recs
Re: The Reverand Wright is Right
Wright The New York Times in an interview published March 6, 2007 : "When his (Obama's) enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli" with Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan to visit Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, "a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell."
I think this "moderate" is right. He also is drying up his candidates support  with his other outrageous statements including God Damn America.
We will not be bamboozled into think a man who wants to be President could be a member of the church for 20 years and not know of these "moderate" statements and actions. Barack you can't give us the old okey doke you can't hoodwink us.
by coolofthenight 2008-03-16 03:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's
Exhibit A: Rev. Wright to be honored at Texas Divinity School later this month.
by Becky G 2008-03-16 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Exhibit B: His church gave a lifetime achievement award to Farrakhan last November.  Exhibit C: Wright travelled to Lybia with Farrakhan in 1984.  Exhibits D-infinity: excerpts from the speeches and writing of Reverend Wright.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 03:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's
All that and he's being honored by the divinity school. Evidently your values are not everybody's values.
by Becky G 2008-03-16 05:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Next exhibit --

His Audacity to Hope sermon:

   Several years ago while I was in Richmond, the Lord allowed me to be in that city during the week of the annual convocation at Virginia Union University School of Theology. There I heard the preaching and teaching of Reverend Frederick G. Sampson of Detroit, Michigan. In one of his lectures, Dr. Sampson spoke of a painting I remembered studying in humanities courses back in the late '50s. In Dr. Sampson's powerful description of the picture, he spoke of it being a study in contradictions, because the title and the details on the canvas seem to be in direct opposition.

   The painting's title is "Hope." It shows a woman sitting on top of the world, playing a harp. What more enviable position could one ever hope to achieve than being on top of the world with everyone dancing to your music?

   As you look closer, the illusion of power gives way to the reality of pain. The world on which this woman sits, our world, is torn by war, destroyed by hate, decimated by despair, and devastated by distrust. The world on which she sits seems on the brink of destruction. Famine ravages millions of inhabitants in one hemisphere, while feasting and gluttony are enjoyed by inhabitants of another hemisphere. This world is a ticking time bomb, with apartheid in one hemisphere and apathy in the other. Scientists tell us there are enough nuclear warheads to wipe out all forms of life except cockroaches. That is the world on which the woman sits in Watt's painting.

   Our world cares more about bombs for the enemy than about bread for the hungry. This world is still more concerned about the color of skin than it is about the content of character--a world more finicky about what's on the outside of your head than about the quality of your education or what's inside your head. That is the world on which this woman sits.

   You and I think of being on top of the world as being in heaven. When you look at the woman in Watt's painting, you discover this woman is in hell. She is wearing rags. Her Georgefredericwattshope tattered clothes look as if the woman herself has come through Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Her head is bandaged, and blood seeps through the bandages. Scars and cuts are visible on her face, her arms, and her legs.

   I. Illusion of Power vs. Reality of Pain

   A closer look reveals all the harp strings but one are broken or ripped out. Even the instrument has been damaged by what she has been through, and she is the classic example of quiet despair. Yet the artist dares to entitle the painting Hope. The illusion of power--sitting on top of the world--gives way to the reality of pain.

   And isn't it that way with many of us? We give the illusion of being in an enviable position on top of the world. Look closer, and our lives reveal the reality of pain too deep for the tongue to tell. For the woman in the painting, what looks like being in heaven is actually an existence in a quiet hell.

   I've been a pastor for seventeen years. I've seen too many of these cases not to know what I'm talking about. I've seen married couples where the husband has a girlfriend in addition to his wife. It's something nobody talks about. The wife smiles and pretends not to hear the whispers and the gossip. She has the legal papers but knows he would rather try to buy Fort Knox than divorce her. That's a living hell.

   I've seen married couples where the wife had discovered that somebody else cares for her as a person and not just as cook, maid jitney service, and call girl all wrapped into one. But there's the scandal: What would folks say? What about the children? That's a living hell.

   I've seen divorcees whose dreams have been blown to bits, families broken up beyond repair, and lives somehow slipping through their fingers. They've lost control. That's a living hell.

   I've seen college students who give the illusion of being on top of the world--designer clothes, all the sex that they want, all the cocaine or marijuana or drugs, all the trappings of having it all together on the outside--but empty and shallow and hurting and lonely and afraid on the inside. Many times what looks good on the outside--the illusion of being in power, of sitting on top of the world--with a closer look is actually existence in a quiet hell.

   That is exactly where Hannah is in 1 Samuel 1 :1-18. Hannah is top dog in this three-way relationship between herself, Elkanah, and Peninnah. Her husband loves Hannah more than he loves his other wife and their children. Elkanah tells Hannah he loves her. A lot of husbands don't do that. He shows Hannah that he loves her, and many husbands never get around to doing that. In fact, it is his attention and devotion to Hannah that causes Peninnah to be so angry and to stay on Hannah's case constantly. Jealous! Jealousy will get hold of you, and you can't let it go because it won't let you go. Peninnah stayed on Hannah, like we say, "as white on rice." She constantly picked at Hannah, making her cry, taking her appetite away.

   At first glance Hannah's position seems enviable. She had all the rights and none of the responsibilities--no diapers to change, no beds to sit beside at night, no noses to wipe, nothing else to wipe either, no babies draining you of your milk and demanding feeding. Hannah was top dog. No baby portions to fix at meal times. Her man loved her; everybody knew he loved her. He loved her more than anything or anybody. That's why Peninnah hated her so much.

   Now, except for the second-wife bit, which was legal back then, Hannah was sitting on top of the world, until you look closer. When you look closer, what looked like being in heaven was actually existing in a quiet hell.

   Hannah had the pain of a bitter woman to contend with, for verse 7 says that nonstop, Peninnah stayed with her. Hannah suffered the pain of living with a bitter woman. And she suffered another pain--the pain of a barren womb. You will remember the story of the widow in 2 Kings 4 who had no child. The story of a woman with no children was a story of deep pathos and despair in biblical days.

   Do you remember the story of Sarah and what she did in Genesis 16 because of her barren womb--before the three heavenly visitors stopped by their tent? Do you remember the story of Elizabeth and her husband in Luke I? Back in Bible days, the story of a woman with a barren womb was a story of deep pathos. And Hannah was afflicted with the pain of a bitter woman on the one hand and the pain of a barren womb on the other.

   Hannah's world was flawed, flaky. Her garments of respectability were tattered and torn, and her heart was bruised and bleeding from the constant attacks of a jealous woman. The scars and scratches on her psyche are almost visible as you look at this passage, where she cries, refusing to eat anything. Just like the woman in Watt's painting, what looks like being in heaven is actually existence in a quiet hell.

   Now I want to share briefly with you about Hannah--the lady and the Lord. While I do so, I want you to be thinking about where you live and your own particular pain predicament. Think about it for a moment.

   Dr. Sampson said he wanted to quarrel with the artist for having the gall to name that painting Hope when all he could see in the picture was hell--a quiet desperation. But then Dr. Sampson said he noticed that he had been looking only at the horizontal dimensions and relationships and how this woman was hooked up with that world on which she sat. He had failed to take into account her vertical relationships. He had not looked above her head. And when he looked over her head, he found some small notes of music moving joyfully and playfully toward heaven.
    II. The Audacity to Hope

   Then, Dr. Sampson began to understand why the artist titled the painting "Hope." In spite of being in a world torn by war, in spite of being on a world destroyed by hate and decimated by distrust, in spite of being on a world where famine and greed are uneasy bed partners, in spite of being on a world where apartheid and apathy feed the fires of racism and hatred, in spite of being on a world where nuclear nightmare draws closer with each second, in spite of being on a ticking time bomb, with her clothes in rags, her body scarred and bruised and bleeding, her harp all but destroyed and with only one string left, she had the audacity to make music and praise God. The vertical dimension balanced out what was going on in the horizontal dimension.

   And that is what the audacity to hope will do for you. The apostle Paul said the same thing. "You have troubles? Glory in your trouble. We glory in tribulation." That's the horizontal dimension. We glory in tribulation because, he says, "Tribulation works patience. And patience works experience. And experience works hope. (That's the vertical dimension.) And hope makes us not ashamed." The vertical dimension balances out what is going on in the horizontal dimension. That is the real story here in the first chapter of 1 Samuel. Not the condition of Hannah's body, but the condition of Hannah's soul--her vertical dimension. She had the audacity to keep on hoping and praying when there was no visible sign on the horizontal level that what she was praying for, hoping for, and waiting for would ever be answered in the affirmative.

   What Hannah wanted most out of life had been denied to her. Think about that. Yet in spite of that, she kept on hoping. The gloating of Peninnah did not make her bitter. She kept on hoping. When the family made its pilgrimage to the sanctuary at Shiloh, she renewed her petition there, pouring out her heart to God. She may have been barren, but that's a horizontal dimension. She was fertile in her spirit, her vertical dimension. She prayed and she prayed and she prayed and she kept on praying year after year. With no answer, she kept on praying. She prayed so fervently in this passage that Eli thought she had to be drunk. There was no visible sign on the horizontal level to indicate to Hannah that her praying would ever be answered. Yet, she kept on praying.

   And Paul said something about that, too. No visible sign? He says, "Hope is what saves us, for we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope. For what a man sees, why does he have hope for it? But if we hope for that which we see not (no visible sign), then do we with patience wait for it."

   That's almost an echo of what the prophet Isaiah said: "They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength." The vertical dimension balances out what is going on in the horizontal dimension.

   There may not be any visible sign of a change in your individual situation, whatever your private hell is. But that's just the horizontal level. Keep the vertical level intact, like Hannah. You may, like the African slaves, be able to sing, "Over my head I hear music in the air. Over my head I hear music in the air. Over my head I hear music in the air. There must be a God somewhere."

   Keep the vertical dimension intact like Hannah. Have the audacity to hope for that child of yours. Have the audacity to hope for that home of yours. Have the audacity to hope for that church of yours. Whatever it is you've been praying for, keep on praying, and you may find, like my grandmother sings, "There's a bright side somewhere; there is a bright side somewhere. Don't you rest until you find it, for there is a bright side somewhere."
    III. Persistence of Hope

   The real lesson Hannah gives us from this chapter--the most important word God would have us hear--is how to hope when the love of God is not plainly evident. It's easy to hope when there are evidences all around of how good God is. But to have the audacity to hope when that love is not evident--you don't know where that somewhere is that my grandmother sang about, or if there will ever be that brighter day--that is a true test of a Hannah-type faith. To take the one string you have left and to have the audacity to hope--make music and praise God on and with whatever it is you've got left, even though you can't see what God is going to do--that's the real word God will have us hear from this passage and from Watt's painting.

   There's a true-life illustration that demonstrates the principles portrayed so powerfully in this periscope. And I close with it. My mom and my dad used to sing a song that I've not been able to find in any of the published hymnals. It's an old song out of the black religious tradition called "Thank you, Jesus." It's a very simple song. Some of you have heard it. It's simply goes, "Thank you Jesus. I thank you Jesus. I thank you Jesus. I thank you Lord." To me they always sang that song at the strangest times--when the money got low, or when the food was running out. When I was getting in trouble, they would start singing that song. And I never understood it, because as a child it seemed to me they were thanking God that we didn't have any money, or thanking God that we had no food, or thanking God that I was making a fool out of myself as a kid.
    Conclusion: Hope is What Saves Us

   But I was only looking at the horizontal level. I did not understand nor could I see back then the vertical hookup that my mother and my father had. I did not know then that they were thanking him in advance for all they dared to hope he would do one day to their son, in their son, and through their son. That's why they prayed. That's why they hoped. That's why they kept on praying with no visible sign on the horizon. And I thank God I had praying parents, because now some thirty-five years later, when I look at what God has done in my life, I understand clearly why Hannah had the audacity to hope. Why my parents had the audacity to hope.

   And that's why I say to you, hope is what saves us. Keep on hoping; keep on praying. God does hear and answer prayer.

by politicsmatters 2008-03-16 04:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

That was a good sermon.  They say even the devil can quote scripture.....

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 04:46PM | 0 recs
Hey folks ask a Black person! Brazille is correct.

Most of us who have grown up in Black neighborhoods can attest that Wrights tone and rhetorical style is relatively moderate. What is very telling is that I really doubt that many of the people who are JUST OUTRAGED are probably just responding to A) His rhetorical style B) His tone c) His afro-centric clothes and D) His support of Barak Obama. If all of these elements were replaced with their white equivalents he would be a writer for the Nation. Essentially rights message is that American foreign policy is the cause of Americas problems. Have anyone here read any of the stuff written by NOW or on those Emily's list boards? Pretty much the same type of language just substitute "white rich people" for "patriarchy" and you would have pretty much the same speeches.

by TMP 2008-03-16 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey folks ask a Black person! Brazille is corr

He is not a moderate.  Most black ministers I know wouldn't have anything to do with a militant like Farrakhan.  And they wouldn't say God d**n America either.  

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 04:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey folks ask a Black person! Brazille is corr

You are wrong. A lot of Black journalist on the Sunday chat shows today have been reinforcing my point. I will even go further and say the majority of Blacks have said the same thing in one form or the other. Ask your Black friends or relatives what they thought of America during Katrina and if they think Katrina was just some anomaly.

by TMP 2008-03-16 06:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey folks ask a Black person! Brazille is corr

Almost to a person, my black friends said that if Bill Clinton was still president that things would have been a lot different.  They were angry at Bush, not the country and not all white men.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 08:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey folks ask a Black person! Brazille is corr

Nonsense. My neighbor was just as black as anyone else's, and so was my church. Mt grandmother taught me about Christianity as she viewed it, and I learned more from my neighbors, and Rev. Wright's  rhetoric doesn't seem moderate at all to me.

It isn't about his his style or his wardrobe choices.  It's about his words.

The U.S government created AIDS to kill off people of color?  How can you possibly call that moderate and expect anyone to believe it?

by Denny Crane 2008-03-16 08:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated:

If Wright is a moderate among these types of preachers then we have a much bigger problem then we knew of.

by ericrsiny 2008-03-16 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated:
I believe we do.
by Becky G 2008-03-16 05:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Great Update Mike.

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

by Fleaflicker 2008-03-16 04:43PM | 0 recs
Donna Brazile is lying

Yes.  Thank you.

That fairytale lie Brazile made lost my support and respect forever.  And maybe her close friendship with Rove is why Mr. Gore didn't do as well as he should have in 2000.

She was already tetering when I heard her praiding Bush for Katrina efforts.  Now her latest actions make her reputation unrepairable.

Bye bye Donna.

by LindaSFNM 2008-03-16 04:53PM | 0 recs
Donna Brazile a useful tool for the Republicans

Anyone can see through Donna's charade of being an uncommited superdelegate. She uses her perch as an unbiased pundit to tear down Hillary every second of her TV time.

This is the same Donna that called Bush a hero one year into Hurricane Katrina.
Bush needed a photo op so he trotted out Mary Landrieu and Donna Brazile for his bipartisan hookum.
After that meeting Landrieu called him " slow and reluctant " and Donna called Bush a hero.
http://tinyurl.com/34ejjs

" Rev. Wright is a moderate "
has Donna Brazile any cred left?

by toddy 2008-03-16 05:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying

Donna Brazille is the best thing to ever happen to the right wing.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-16 05:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

There are rumors that Hannity and Fox News have tapes of Obama actually in the pews cheering when Wright is performing one of the speeches.

If this true, even if it's one sermon, a picture of the Obamas in that position would be crippling!

Does anyone know if this is true?  In twenty years, I would bet that he's has been filmed at least once in the audience during one these sermons.

The questions are going be, Why didn't he stand up and walk out? etc.

I think Hannity's holding back.

by WAREHOUSE553 2008-03-16 05:56PM | 0 recs
Rev Wright &amp; Pastordan - same church

Heh, it turns out Pastordan over at DKos ... oh n/m.  This place is boycotting the collection of unwelcome information.  Well, I'll just see myself out, shall I?

by Quicklund 2008-03-16 05:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Rev Wright &amp;amp; Pastordan - same church

They are the same denomination but NOT the same church. There's a big difference. All churches within the same denomination are often not much alike.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-16 06:21PM | 0 recs
Same organization

Correct, not the same physical building or parrish or whatever term they use, but the same denomination or faith or whatever term is approriate.  But Sen Obama's - parrish - is the single largest in that particular organization and Rev Wright is well known and respected - by the predominately white membership, as it happens.

But only time will knock some sense into heads.  Until then we return the hyperpartizans (don the shoes as they fit) to their sport of sensationalism in liu or research.

by Quicklund 2008-03-16 11:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Same organization

Well, then he's damaging the entire denomination not only his church. If the membership at large thinks this kind of stuff is okay it doesn't say much for the entire denomination.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-17 05:43AM | 0 recs
Tell it to Oprah

She attends, as I understand it, the same church.  And this time I mean parrish.

Maybe just maybe, the handful of sensational sermons do not in fact accurately reflect that Church's worldview.

Nahhhhhh.

by Quicklund 2008-03-17 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Tell it to Oprah

Nope, I understand she left the church because of its radical views.

It even professed those views on its website so it was well known.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-17 05:21PM | 0 recs
Thanks

This I need to look into.  (Forgive grammar terrible please.)

by Quicklund 2008-03-18 07:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Rev Wright &amp;amp; Pastordan - same church

We are striking against unwelcome behavior by unkind people.  (Hello BTW!!) There is no strike on information, unwelcome or otherwise.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 06:37PM | 0 recs
I am stumped.

Well, as Alegre describes it, the point is to reduce Daily Kos' ad venenue by denying them page hits. So Alegre's team can certanly read up on Pasterdan's experiences with Rev Wringht, but in doing so they will be giving up the page hits they have pledged to withhold. And it is pretty distressing to think they would go back on their word.  Well, I am sure their brave sacrifice will lead to a more-informed electorate.

by Quicklund 2008-03-16 11:45PM | 0 recs
Re: I am stumped.

I like Pastor Dan.  But his experiences with Wright, whatever they might be, are irrelevant to this discussion.  

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-17 06:00AM | 0 recs
Naturally

If the posters here became aware that this church is in fact not a hotbed of anti-Americanism that would take a certain amount of pleasure out of the schaudenfreunde, yes?

by Quicklund 2008-03-17 01:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Why in the world would you highlight this statement:

"Unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian."

Is it better that folks should be ashamed and apologetic?

by 1jpb 2008-03-16 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Of course not.  No one said that.  It was just part of a quote that contained other things I wanted to emphasize.  

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-16 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Such is the burden of those who avoid context when making an argument.

Like you, Sean Hannity suffers greatly from this problem.

by 1jpb 2008-03-17 10:04PM | 0 recs
So he should've been ashamed of being black?

I'm confused. Being unashamedly black is bad? You'd prefer they should be ashamedly black?

WTF?

And what's wrong with being a radical? Weren't most of our heroes who were alive during the 60's and 70's considered "radicals"? I don't know much about the Baptist church, but I'm pretty sure their definition of "too radical" is the same as my definition.

But I totally agree that Donna Brazille is a dirty liar. She's evil and I hate her now.

Thanks.

by Etchasketchist 2008-03-16 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton wins by ripping Obama

Clinton can only win the nomination by ripping Obama APART BY THIS RIGHT WING HIT JOB.

However, the irony is that if this works ,she loses the GE. A significant number of African Americans and young people will then sit this election out.

So welcome President McCain the 44th president of the United States.

by BDM 2008-03-16 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton wins by ripping Obama

Don't think that Obama supporters are the only sitter outers in the GE.  I don't know where this came from or how it started, but there has always been a question about Obama's church, based on it's website.  It didn't help when Farakan(sp?) endorsed Obama.  Clinton had nothing to do with that. I am sorry, but by the time it got to Wrights videos the stone was already rolling and gathering moss.  As an American myself, I don't want a president who gets into the idea that America should be damned, that America deserved what it got on 911, and that America was responsible for AIDS.  There was also a direct hit on Clinton in one of his sermons, and a complete lack of understanding of the oppression of women.  

Unless, you want to pretend most of the US is right wing and if they pay attention to this issue they are racist, then you might want to look a little deeper into the concern and what it is all about.

by Scotch 2008-03-16 07:59PM | 0 recs
Question

"As an American myself, I don't want a president who gets into the idea that America should be damned, that America deserved what it got on 911, and that America was responsible for AIDS."

So does that mean that you think Barack Obama believes all these things? Seriously? Have you bought into this whole guilt by association line of thinking? I'm curious.

by Etchasketchist 2008-03-16 08:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Question

If he had a vague association with this person, I would brush it off.  If he attended the church once or twice, so what.  That isn't the case here.  He has been a member, what? 17 years?  He named his book after something the minister said, and he has been listening to this for many many years willingly.  He must share some of the ideas with him.  I doubt the AIDs one, but I don't know, because I know common ordinary black people who don't go to hear sermons like this all the time, people living the life i live, people I work with, who share this view and even hate of America.  So, I can't put it past Obama.  If anyone in the country should like the country, and treasure it, it should be the president.  Sure, they can believe that it has plenty of room for improvement, in fact I would prefer that, but this stuff bothers me when it could be held by a presidential candidate.  And you know, Michelle even said something a little similar.  I think she believes it.

by Scotch 2008-03-16 08:30PM | 0 recs
Skirting the question

So that's a yes? I couldn't really tell by your answer, there was so much extraneous verbiage.

Let's focus and keep it simple and go one by one.

Yes or no question:

Do you think that Barack Obama believes that America invented AIDS?

by Etchasketchist 2008-03-16 08:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Skirting the question

I already answered that, and all of the other stuff.  Going to bed now.  Night.

by Scotch 2008-03-16 08:57PM | 0 recs
Yes or No

Maximum 3 characters will suffice. No need to dodge. Question still stands. You can answer it in the morning. I'll check in. Night-night.

by Etchasketchist 2008-03-16 08:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Yes or No

Maybe.

by Scotch 2008-03-17 03:50PM | 0 recs
Yea or Nay?

G'morning. Still waiting...

by Etchasketchist 2008-03-17 06:45AM | 0 recs
Donna Brazile is lying about Wright

I can't figure out where Donna got her fame.  Before Gore, I had never heard of her.  And now, even though she did a lousy job with Gore, she is still sought out by the MSM. I guess just being the warm body that she was during Gores campaign makes her have at least some political talking head experience.

Donna took her stand on not being a super delegate if it got to the point of the nomination being decided by SDs, because she has it in her mind that the only reason that SD would be used , is if they are used toward electing Clinton. She can't fathom that it would be Obama who would need her delegate vote to win. She would refuse to vote for Clinton and this is her way of doing it.  You can bet that if she thought her delegate vote would be needed to help bring him in she would never give it up.

Donna's statement that Wright is mainstream, might be half true to her.  From talking to Black Friends, one of whom is very open and we talk about race and issues alot, I think that Wrights type of thinking runs as an undercurrent in the African American community.  There is an underlying resentment against the US because of its past opression of blacks, and because they see the govt doing the same to other countries and people of color around the world, now.  The idea that America deserved what it got on 911 is a common view of a lot of black people, but of course not for all.  So, in the black community, he is not so strange.  But she is certainly savvy enough to know that that does not sit well at all with the dominent culture, and is trying to downplay it because of that.  She is appealing to his black supporters who he already has instead of to potential white supporters.  Not smart, because in the fall the white supporter pool is going to expand tremendously while Obama's chance, if he gets there, will shrink at lightening speed.

by Scotch 2008-03-16 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

It all boils down to judgment.  His is lacking in both the Rezko and Rev. Wright instances.  And let's not forget the NAFTA issue.  Judgment that he insist on hanging around Hillary's neck regarding her vote on Iraq.  Just shows he is no different and needs to be removed from that pedestal and viewed like any other politician running for office.  The slickness of "we are what we have been waiting for" won't stick this time.

by Pat J 2008-03-16 08:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

Do HRC people really want to continue with Rezko? Without her taxes, White House Papers, and earmark requests...it is a little hypocritical. But dont worry...once Obama gets rolling:

Neal Ainley

Almon Glenn Braswell and Carlos Vignali

Ron Brown

Liu Chaoying & Johnny Chung

Sant Chatwal

Marc Rich & Pincus Green

John Huang

Norman Hsu

International Profit Associates (IPA)

Abdul Rehman Jinnah

Wang Jun

Harvey Weinig

Webster Hubbell

Frank Giustra

by Newcomer 2008-03-16 10:49PM | 0 recs
You've Obviously not been in a Black church

I'm not surprised by this.

Jeremiah Wright was a visionary. Afro-centric and BLACK while most folks were still NEGROES.

Standing up for ones self while others shuffled along to the tune of Boss Richard Daley (the first).

He is the epitome of the Black Activist, and that is completely the heart and soul of the Black Christian Church. Without that activism, we'd still be second class citizens LEGALLY in this country.

by rikyrah 2008-03-16 10:29PM | 0 recs
Re: You've Obviously not been in a Black church

I have been in a black church.  And Wright is definitely no MLK.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-17 05:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

CLARIFICATION:

Those that I've seen.

by switching sides 2008-03-17 01:26AM | 0 recs
Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's moderateness
First Time Post:  
I really felt Obama was the change we needed, now this weekend I see that he is not.  I am an AA we have enough division without this non sense.
This is really damaging to Obama, if he is found any where in the tapes of any of the sermons he will not be explaining away. He has jumped on everything that has come up in the campaign.
I feel he has brought all of this on himself, his complete lack of substance coupled with this, makes this undoable.
by mickey for pres 2008-03-17 04:27AM | 0 recs
Donna Brazile lying? Say it's not so...

Come on, folks.  

There is no need to get riled up about Donna Brazile.  She lies for a living, is nakedly biased toward Obama -- and doesn't give a crap about issues of enfranchisement, party unity, process, or making sure progressive policies are enacted.

She's a hack.  Plain and simple.

by bartimaeus blue 2008-03-17 06:00AM | 0 recs
This is about Obama's Judgement
Wright was so radical that he could not get a job at any Baptist Church

Obama stuck with the most radical pastor (and church) he could find for over 20 years. That says something about his poor judgment.

by zenful6219 2008-03-17 07:17AM | 0 recs
Whuh?

I'm not sure I understand - the United Church of Christ is a more mainline, white and liberal organization than the major African-American baptist organizations.  The idea that someone was too radical to be a Baptist so they turned to, of all places, the United Church of Christ, is utterly bizarre to me.

So, once again - this supposed radical black nationalist is affiliated with a national church which is vastly white, and very mainstream.

by jlk7e 2008-03-17 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

The issue is Obama's judgment. (in addition to the media's bias and laziness).

He and his campaign should have known from day one of undertaking this campaign that Wright would be a problem in mainstream america.

The fact that they assumed they would continue to receive holy, prayer-like, adoring, uncritical press coverage and that Wright wouldn't be 'uncovered' shows both deceit and poor judgment -- not to mention collusion with the lazy, idolatrous press.

Wright is not the problem; he's symbolic of white american fears and anxieties about their deepest fears about their black brothers and sisters. Anyone who thinks honestly for one moment cannot be surprised based on this country's history and legacy of racism.

The problem is they are afraid of what Wright represents and his closeness to Obma -- that Obama didn't know of Wright's beliefs and attitudes is not credible. The problem is Obama's lack of judgment about Wright and his ultimate impact on the Obama campaign. It will very likely cause Obama to lose the election to McCain and the republicans.

That is the biggest problem. The issue is Obama's judgment and his credibility (and honesty). And now, his electibility.

by buzzzed 2008-03-18 06:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: lying about Wright

The overarching issue is Obama's judgment, credibility, honesty. (in addition to the media's bias and laziness).

He and his campaign should have known -- DID KNOW -- from day one of undertaking this campaign that Wright would be a problem in mainstream america.

The fact that they assumed they would continue to receive holy, prayer-like, adoring, uncritical press coverage and that Wright wouldn't be 'uncovered' shows both deceit and poor judgment -- not to mention collusion with the lazy, idolatrous, Hillary-hating press.

Wright is not the problem; he's symbolic of white american fears and anxieties about their deepest fears about their black brothers and sisters. Anyone who thinks honestly for one moment cannot be surprised based on this country's history and legacy of racism.

White americans are very very afraid of what Wright represents -- and now, they see his closeness to Obma -- that Obama didn't know of Wright's beliefs and attitudes is not credible.

Again: the problem is Obama's lack of judgment about Wright and his ultimate impact on the Obama campaign. It will very likely cause Obama to lose the election to McCain and the republicans. White america is more likely to succumb to its fears than reach for its unformed, non-specific aspirations which Obama has yet to clearly define.

It has come to pass: that which he held up as his strength is now the issue in all things, not just one speech 5 years ago. Obama's judgment and his credibility (and honesty) are now in full view. And now, his electibility is the ultimate issue.

Brazile and others like her (MSNBC tweeties, kiss-asses, WaPO, Sally Quinn, Carl Bernstein and all the other Hillary-haters anyone?) -- all those who try to minimize Wright's impact on the election/camaign, continue to delude themselves and everyone else. Just like Obama and his campaign have done. More lies. More delusion. More reasons that if the dems nominate Obama out of guilt and delusion in the fall, he will lose, the republicans and McCain will win again for 8 more years of Bush.

by buzzzed 2008-03-18 06:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Updated: Donna Brazile is lying about Wright's

sorry about 2 posts: i thought the first one was on 'preview'

by buzzzed 2008-03-18 06:59AM | 0 recs

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