Joe Sestak, Iraq, and "inside sources"

There has been a misrepresentation, posted prominently on this site last week, that Congressman Joe Sestak (PA-7) has not agreed to support the Iraq supplemental funding bill being pushed by the House Democratic Leadership, supposedly because he opposed setting a "date certain" for withdrawal.

Four points, with the details below the flip:


  1. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING could be further from the truth.
  2. If you read the comments of the posts that furthered this misrepresentation, you will see that Sestak's standing has been damaged with some readers by this falsehood.
  3. Readers interested in furthering the Democratic cause, or just ending the war in Iraq, might be concerned about how this fratricide came about - and how to keep our aim truer in the future.
  4. And just so you don't miss it - Joe Sestak will be on Meet the Press on Sunday. If you care about his Iraq position, please watch and hear it from him directly.

The first post that I encountered that raised my eyebrows (and my hackles, since I know Joe Sestak), was made by Matt Stoller on Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 04:41:20 PM EST, and he titled it "List of Blue Dog Saboteurs." Which list in the preface he describes as "here's a list of Blue Dogs that don't want to vote for this bill because it has a certain date for withdrawal."

Incredibly, Joe Sestak was included on that list.

First, Joe Sestak is not a member of the Blue Dog Coalition, and has not shown any signs of thinking or legislating like a Blue Dog - with the exception that he - gasp - is willing to talk to Republicans in our district.

Stoller corrected that appellation in an update, but left Sestak on the list as opposing the supplemental funding bill.

Second - and most importantly - Joe Sestak CAMPAIGNED on setting a date certain for withdrawal from Iraq. He probably mentioned it in every campaign statement he made in 2006! So to someone from around here, the notion that he would oppose the supplemental on the grounds that it sets a date certain is patently ridiculous - laughable, even, except for the damage it might do to his tough re-election bid in 2008. (Thanks, Matt.)

For those not from around here, just the fact that Sestak introduced his own bill on February 7, 2007:

"To enhance the national security interests of the United States both at home and abroad by setting a deliberate timetable for the redeployment of United States Armed Forces from Iraq by December 31, 2007, and for other purposes,"
might suggest to one that even if Sestak is opposing the supplemental, his reason would NOT be the "date certain" - unless it is because that date is too far in the future.

More likely, a) he hadn't had a chance to read the supplemental bill yet, and b) he was still hoping to negotiate some points in the final bill, which clearly is not as aggressive on exiting Iraq as his own position. On either case, in this constituent's opinion it is perfectly respectable - in fact admirable - to defer announcing unqualified support for the bill. (Really - I thought we wanted our reps to read bills first? And what was that whole thing about removing the clause to prevent Bush from launching an attack on Iran? Unimportant to some here, I guess.)

Let's be clear on another point, too, in case it's escaped anyone: Sestak is NOT on the appropriations committee. He doesn't get a vote until the bill comes to the floor and is debated. Much can happen to it in the meantime.

As a constituent, campaign volunteer, and local Democratic Party volunteer juggling a few hats, I am MORE than happy with Sestak's position as of last week. I know the man and trust him to do the right thing. It's disgusting to me that the blogosphere would attack him without even considering the FACTS, or, apparently, how he is regarded in his own district.

So, let's take a look at how this occurred. In his post on the 14th, "List of Blue Dog Saboteurs", Stoller says he received his information "From a source close to the House Democratic caucus." Well, either his source a) isn't very close to that caucus, b) deliberately lied about Sestak, or c) didn't bother to check his own suppositions before passing them on to Stoller, who dutifully did not sanity check the list before posting it, with these denigrating words:

It's sad to see some freshmen we supported on the list.  Joe Sestak, Kirsten Gillibrand and Michael Arcuri had some online support from the progressive netroots.

Oh, yeah? Joe Sestak is a GREAT representative, who has authored one of, if not the most aggressive proposal for getting out of Iraq - yet Stoller comments that it is "sad" that the netroots supported Sestak??? Based on an unverified report from a single, unidentified source - which turns out to be FALSE!

Stoller later posted an "update" on Thu Mar 15, 2007 at 05:59:28 PM EST (Iraq: Democrats Moving in the Right Direction), which he subsequently updated with this statement from Sestak,

"Although I am disappointed there is not one fixed date certain by the end of the year to redeploy out of Iraq, as my legislation proposes, in order to permit a change in strategy to where the Iraqis as well as Iranians and Syrians have an incentive to work for stablity, I am pleased we are moving in the right direction for an end date to this War, so we can enhance our security around the world."

This quote mentions Sestak's own bill, but Stoller somehow took from that, "He sounds more liberal than Blue Dog here, but he's still equivocating." As I posted in that thread - EQUIVOCATING? Sestak has been very clear from the beginning of his campaign, where he stands on the Iraq war and getting our troops out of that quagmire. It's obvious to anyone who has paid attention, that Sestak will support the supplemental if he can in good conscience - which will depend on what is in it, but it won't be a "date certain" that prevents him from supporting it.

Well I am sorry that this has turned out to be a longer post than I intended, and probably not as well organized as it should be. I already had a full plate this weekend but could not let this issue go unaddressed.

Now I turn to the readership of this blog: what do you think about the use of single, unverified, "inside sources", without confirmation of the facts, that take our representatives to task? Should we as readers just be more careful of what we see posted here, or should the posters be more careful of their "sources"? Or both?

And please, please note: I mean this in a general sense. This is a challenge to the inaccuracy of a particular post, and the causes for it - not on the author. I have had strong differences with Matt Stoller before, but THIS IS NOT ABOUT THAT. Please think about this situation in the general sense - but of course, if Stoller's posts had hurt your opinion of Joe Sestak, please revisit your assessment with this new information.

And finally, please don't miss Joe on Meet the Press on Sunday. From an email I received:

NBC is planning on devoting the entire show to the 4th Anniversary of the Iraq War, and has asked Joe to share his perspective and insight.

Joe will be the only sitting Member of Congress on the panel.  Other panel members will be:  Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay (R-Texas); Former Representative Tom Andrews (D- Maine) who is now National Director of Win Without War; and Richard Perle of the American Enterprise Institute.

And from an article in the Delco Times today, which I just saw, and updates Joe's position explicitly on the supplemental, or at least the "date certain" part of it:

As the Iraq war enters its fifth year, the House's highest-ranking former military officer, U.S. Rep. Joe Sestak, will appear this weekend on NBC's "Meet the Press" with Tim Russert to discuss America's future involvement in the country.

Sestak, whose 31-year Navy career has earned him a leadership role in shaping the Democrats' war policy, has introduced legislation that would redeploy almost all 142,000 U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of this year.

The House is expected to debate a $124-million spending bill next week that would tie the troop withdrawal to the Iraqi government's progress in meeting benchmarks set forth in January by President Bush.

If those goals aren't met, the troops could be pulled out of the war-torn nation by as early as Dec. 31, 2007. Even if the Iraqi government meets some or all of the benchmarks, the bill calls for redeploying the troops by August 2008 at the latest, said Sestak, D-7, of Edgmont.

"This is acceptable because it has a date certain," said Sestak, who called the bill a "good step toward an exit strategy."

Listen to what Joe says. Read the bill he submitted. Talk to those of us who live in this district and had to deal with "Crazy Curt" as our so-called representative until Admiral Joe Sestak came along.

Then decide if you are "sad" that the netroots supported Joe Sestak in 2006.

Tags: anonymous sources, Iraq, Joe Sestak, political fratricide (all tags)

Comments

19 Comments

I live in PA-07 too

I saw Joe a couple of weeks ago at a volunteer party.  He is literally focusing all his attention on getting us out of Iraq.  I don't understand how anyone could get any other impression.

Bloggers have in the past criticized the main stream media for not doing enough investigation and when they do make a front-page mistake, posting the retraction on page 30.  Being liberal does not excuse you from learning the truth.  And it certainly does not excuse you from calling adequate attention to your mistakes in order to attempt to fix some of the damage.

Kos did this just recently when he front-paged a story quoting a random blogger from another site, apparently without doing a single bit of fact-checking.  Turns out, the random blogger had been part of a miscommunication and had reported something that wasn't really true.  To my knowledge, even though his mistake was pointed out to him, Kos refused to acknowledge that his story was incorrect.

When nobody's paying attention to you, you don't really have to be that careful to get your facts straight.  If you make a mistake, all it does is tarnish your own reputation a little.  And, if most of the time you're right, then your reputation will still grow even if you make mistakes from time to time.  But once you become well-known, other people actually listen to you.  Make a mistake, and it's spread too far to be corrected before you even realized it happened.

by ICantBelieve 2007-03-17 07:53AM | 0 recs
Re: I live in PA-07 too

Exactly.

Hey I was at that party, too.  (Alex was so cute, wasn't she?)

I think Joe's in no danger of losing support from the locals. But it would be nice to keep the netroots support too, and it would be unfair for him to lose it because of careless spreading of falsehoods.

by MH in PA 2007-03-17 09:05AM | 0 recs
I have to step away

and do some silly things like laundry, etc., for awhile.

I'll be back later to read and respond to comments.

by MH in PA 2007-03-17 07:53AM | 0 recs
Thank you, MH
Sorry I missd this yesterday. Thank you for defending our Congressman.
Sorry I missed the volunteer event. I will look for you at the next one.
by quadmom 2007-03-18 01:20PM | 0 recs
Joe Sestak, Iraq, and "inside sources"

MH, thanks for setting the record straight. I've donated to several candidates from beyond my state that have cast some horrible votes. The best way I can think to respond to these now-representatives who fail to represent, is to shrug my shoulders and be happy that the numbers are now on our side.

But seeing Sestak's name on that list was different. He really impressed me as someone whose votes I could understand, and someone I would come to admire. (I don't have to agree every time, just find common ground.) But this! good grief.

I'm happy to read that indeed, Sestak hasn't entered the "dark side." When I first learned that he would be on MTP, the news rang sour based on his name on "the list." Good, now I can actually look forward to hearing what he has to say.

Often times the bright-ones of the blogosphere miss the mark. Recently, as Ican'tbelieve points out, they've done a disservice to a someone who has been on our side since before the beginning. I don't expect them to correct their mistake since it is part of a continuing pattern. I'm just happy that you have taken the time to set the record straight about Joe Sestak.  

by Donna Z 2007-03-17 08:40AM | 0 recs
You're welcome, and you highlight

exactly why I am concerned about this, and felt I needed to take time out to post a correction.

Too many people may have seen that list, and probably, unfortunately, not all of those folks will see my post today.

I hope TPTB at this site will take it to heart and try to make up for any damage. And try to be more careful in the future.

Meanwhile, is there a lesson to be learned by us, the readership? Maybe to be careful about absorbing a negative post about someone, until we've had a chance to do some fact-checking ourselves? We'd like to think we could expect that from the writers before they post something. But anyone can make a mistake. And when the only cited source is some unidentified person who is supposedly "inside" - how much credence should we give to that kind of information?

OTOH, it is really a lot to expect of one's readership that they, the readership, be always skeptical of your sources. And hopefully every writer would like to build up his or her credibility, so that people would know that they could trust their work.

by MH in PA 2007-03-17 09:21AM | 0 recs
my apologies

I saw his name on the list, I was almost certain his name shouldn't have been there, and I should have written something at the time. My excuse is that I was too busy then to get the documentation to erase my "almost," but my "too busy" isn't good enough.

by joyful alternative 2007-03-17 10:12AM | 0 recs
Re: my apologies

Well, that kind of highlights why it's the responsibility of the writer to check their facts. Someone may read it who knows better, but doesn't have the time or ability to correct it at that time.

And, I was "too busy" too, even when I saw it (though I posted some comments), to get all the facts rounded up. That's why it took til this morning to get this post up.

You do what you can. When you don't feel you've done enough, you just try to do better next time.

Thanks for reading and posting here.

by MH in PA 2007-03-17 11:24AM | 0 recs
Taylor Marsh picked up the disinfo, too

I had checked at dailykos to decide if I should post over there. It looks like it didn't make it into the diaries there, so I was leaning against.

But now I see that other prominent bloggers picked up the bad information from the original post.

Great. Just great.

by MH in PA 2007-03-17 09:52AM | 0 recs
Thanks

for setting the record straight on Stoller's misrepresentation of Sestak.  

I hope Matt sees his way clear to posting a prominent correction.  It would certainly add to both his credibility and the credibility of myDD as a reliable source that acknowledges when a mistake has been made.

by vbdietz 2007-03-17 09:56AM | 0 recs
Retraction?

Thank you for this.

When the MSM misrepresent the truth, bloggers like Matt scream for a retraction.

I'm sure that one will be forthcoming from Matt.

by pelican 2007-03-17 02:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Retraction?

Don't be too sure. Check the front page.

Maybe in some universe that's a "retraction".

by MH in PA 2007-03-17 03:12PM | 0 recs
NDC List

Someone might have already posted this, but I don't feel like digging around to see.  The NDC membership list has moved 3 times in the last 3 months, but it's currently at: http://www.house.gov/tauscher/ndc/Member ship_textrich.shtml

For the record, Sestak's not on it.  He was on an earlier version, but the earlier version had a number of problems.  I'm gonna xpost this comment to the other Sestak thread.

by hoose 2007-03-17 03:53PM | 0 recs
Re: NDC List

Thanks for this.

It's hard to keep track.

by MH in PA 2007-03-17 04:53PM | 0 recs
Re: NDC List

I think it's important to point out that there was noise coming from several directions a few months ago that Sestak was absolutely going to join the NDC.  

It pissed me off, made a lasting impression, and inspired to to write this comment on one of his diaries about it.

I don't think we need to assign evil intent to Matt on the original mistake about Sestak's caucus membership.  If I recall correctly, other FP'ers have recently made the same mistake.

by hoose 2007-03-17 07:13PM | 0 recs
Absolutely,

we should not assign evil intent to an initial mistake.

I wouldn't even assume "evil intent" for a repeated mistake.  There are a few other words I might consider...but I'll leave it to others to make their own judgments.

by MH in PA 2007-03-18 04:54PM | 0 recs
Re: NDC List

Wait a minute, one of those on the NDC list is from my state, KY, Ben Chandler. Now I know that his being there is a very good thing since he was elected and reelected in one of those formerly strong Republican seats.  Now I am not feeling inclined to be against Ben because he joined that NDC list because I know he did it to reflect the views of his constituents in that district.

Ben was being prompted to run for Governor this year and he would have had a very good chance to win, but  I knew if he left that district the House would have lost one more Democratic Seat.

I have to admit I am and many here in the south are beginning to feel very alientated these days concerning these attacks on the NDC and I just left over at Kos because posters there are referring to those 'blue dogs' as fascists, thus their constituents have voted for 'fascists"?

Now I've been one to work very hard and have held a Democracy bond since Dean came in and insituted the 50 state strategy, we were all thrilled that finaly the south would have a chance to have help to take our states back and make them blue again.

Now I am not so sure. Each and everyday here in KY, we dems are fighting the extreme right wingers on various blogs, and most importantly Senator Mitch McConnell, who is the mOST responsible for keeping this war going and all of those problems in the Republic Party over and above the 'Blue Dogs' or the NDC--and yet all apprearances are that little if any pressure is being put on the Republic Party and most pressure is concentrated upon those Dems and that allows the Republic Party to have a field day with the Dems in the South.

I hleped greatly to get Anne Northup out in KY 03 and get John Yarmuth in, Ben Chandler as well, both of these were great in helping to break the strong hold of the neo cons in the House.

And yet, we are being kind of 'written off' because those constituents here in the south are not in lock step with the Dems in the rest of the country.

In no way am I supportive of what theose Blue Dogs are doing nor those in the NDC, however I do understand that this is a great step overall for the Democrats to make headway in ALL the country just not the north and the west but the entire country. And most of all, the Democratic Party supports diversity unlock the Republic Party that demands everyone walk in lock step.

Unfortunately, the more I read and the more attacks that are coming from the Dems and about other Dems--well, I honestly just don't know any longer and it makes me very sad because that 50 state strategy appears to be no longer in play.

Sorry this is so long, I just had to get this out and off my chest.

Thanks to all who listened.

by Wary 2007-03-18 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Joe Sestak, Iraq,

Saw Rep Sestak on MTP today. He had the unfortunate occasion to sit next to Tom Delay. (Why anyone gives that man a venue is beyond me.) Sestak was clear, concise, low key and, in a word, magnificent. After one of Joe's deliveries about the need to get out of Iraq and focus on Afghanistan, Delay says something like, "That's what they want ...(retreating, not supporting our troops, etc.)"  which sent me once more screaming at the TV. With Delay it's always "us vs. them." I was thinking: just who is  "they" Tom? Democrats? Or is "they" our current and former general officers? Or is "they" those who have actually served unlike all the chicken hawks who got us into this war?

Tom, I hope you get to enjoy another cycle of "us vs. them" from the confines of prison. And just maybe I'll actually enjoy yet another appearance by you on MTM -- from your jail cell!  

by Bob Miller 2007-03-18 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Joe Sestak, Iraq,

I thought Sestak was just OK. Never-served Delay and Perle through some bombs directly at Sestak, and Sestak sort of dodged but never parried.

Perle was downright insulting to Sestak, and still Sestak didn't respond.

Why vets like Sestak and Kerry take shit from intellectual, pencil-neck neocons like Perle I'll never quite understand.

I thought Tom Andrews was good.

by LiberalFromPA 2007-03-19 07:47AM | 0 recs

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