CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

An interesting response from Obama today regarding the 3 AM phone call ad.

Obama questioned whether Hillary had the experience to pick up that 3 AM call.

The interviewer then asked him to cite his security experience.

His response?  "That's the point, neither of us do."

Not the best answer, especially if he goes against McCain.  The speech against Iraq will only go so far.
 

Tags: Barrack Obama, Hillary Clinton (all tags)

Comments

108 Comments

Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

Hillary keeps taking credit for the good things that happened during the Clinton years. If she's so experienced, then where was she during Rwanda? Where was she in Somali? where was she on Iraq? And if this is about experience, then I should vote for McCain because he has more experienced.

by AnthonyMason 2008-03-05 02:33AM | 0 recs
speaking of where was she on Iraq

Did you guys know that Barack Obama has never been to Iraq?  And he never actually had to vote for or against the war.  And after he became a Senator his voting record was no different than Clinton?

Why doesn't Obama visit Iraq just once?  Or Europe for that matter?  He went to London one time yet he heads European subcommittee. Yikes.

by diplomatic 2008-03-05 02:43AM | 0 recs
But.. one has to wonder.. how could he govern?

Not knowing what the European options are like for real people. Things like their universal healthcare, which 'just works' (the propaganda is basically lies)

by architek 2008-03-05 04:54AM | 0 recs
Re: speaking of where was she on Iraq

I believe he was only in London once and it was a stopover - not even a real trip.

by cmugirl90 2008-03-05 05:04AM | 0 recs
Re: speaking of where was she on Iraq

Not that going to Iraq means anything, but he has been there.

http://obama.senate.gov/news/060108-obam a_obstacles/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abram s/hillarys-3am-experience_b_89440.html

by 1jpb 2008-03-05 09:31AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

She evidently was there during Rwanda. (link):

When asked in a debate in early December whether she had advised her husband on foreign matters, Hillary replied, "I certainly did." Recently Bill Clinton said that in 1994 Hillary urged him to send U.S. troops to stop the

She was also there during the Bosnia Kosovo crisis, where an impending Genocide was avoided. It took a knock down drag out fight with Republicans and the Pentagon to stop Milosevic from slaughtering 1.5 million ethnic Albanians. (See discussion here.)

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-05 04:26AM | 0 recs
hmm... quote got cut off somehow

Recently Bill Clinton said that in 1994 Hillary urged him to send U.S. troops to stop the slaughter in Rwanda.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-05 04:33AM | 0 recs
Great reponse

Always nice when someone asks a misleading rhetorical answer, only to get answered with a fact that contradicts the impression they were hoping to create.

by dcg2 2008-03-05 05:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Great reponse

A "fact"...let's see.

Bill Clinton can also give her some credit for other things he did during his tenure.  I mean, we should definitely take anything he says as a "fact".

by Tantris 2008-03-05 06:01AM | 0 recs
Hmmmm. Who to believe...you or a former

POTUS who was there?  Hmmmmmm.

Gosh, I can't answer that one!

I don't know if your single or married or with a partner or are male or female, but take it from this women who has been married for 35 years - MY HUSBAND AND I TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING!  We are both attorneys and he's my best counsel and I'm his.  The BEST ADVICE I have ever gotten -AND TAKEN - has been from him.  And vice versa!

If you're not in/don't have that type of relationship, I'm sorry.

by Shazone 2008-03-05 06:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Hmmmm. Who to believe...you or a former
Sounds like you have a relationship that is akin to Bill and Hill's. I hope it's just as strong, it sounds like it. :) I admire Bill and Hill because they both seem like their marriage is built on a true partnership...true equality (and Bill's always saying how Hillary is smarter than he is, so...).
by BrandingIron17 2008-03-05 08:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Hmmmm. Who to believe...you or a former

I do!  

And Hillary is smarter than Bill.  Isn't that amazing...after the idiot who has been warming Hillary's seat for the past 8 years?

by Shazone 2008-03-05 01:11PM | 0 recs
Re: hmm... quote got cut off somehow

He also said that he was against the war from the start.  Bill is not bound by the restrictions of truthfulness.

by 1jpb 2008-03-05 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

Anthony, you've neglected to do your research. Above, you wrote "where was Hillary....in Somali."..... You not only spelled Somalia incorrectly, you forgot that Hillary spearheaded the Clinton initiative in Somalia.  This was one of the first initiatives to bring troops in to help an African country.  It was her idea.  She and Bill both admitted to this.

by findthesource 2008-03-05 06:25AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

I thought we put troops into Somalia under Bush I.

by Steve M 2008-03-05 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

Are HRC supporters claiming that HRC is responsible for the disastrous retreat from Somalia?  And, this proves she's a good Commander in Chief.

Yikes!

Bin Laden says our retreat in Somalia inspired him to attack on 9-11.  The excerpt below is from the 9-11 report:

Paragraph #274 (on page 48)
In August 1996, Bin Ladin had issued his own self-styled fatwa calling on Muslims to drive American soldiers out of Saudi Arabia.The long, disjointed document condemned the Saudi monarchy for allowing the presence of an army of infidels in a land with the sites most sacred to Islam, and celebrated recent suicide bombings of American military facilities in the Kingdom. It praised the 1983 suicide bombing in Beirut that killed 241 U.S. Marines, the 1992 bombing in Aden, and especially the 1993 firefight in Somalia after which the United States "left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you."3 Bin Ladin said in his ABC interview that he and his followers had been preparing in Somalia for another long struggle, like that against the Soviets in Afghanistan, but "the United States rushed out of Somalia in shame and disgrace." Citing the Soviet army's withdrawal from Afghanistan as proof that a ragged army of dedicated Muslims could overcome a superpower, he told the interviewer: "We are certain that we shall--with the grace of Allah--prevail over the Americans." He went on to warn that "If the present injustice continues . . . , it will inevitably move the battle to American soil."4 Plans to attack the United States were developed with unwavering single mindedness throughout the 1990s. Bin Ladin saw himself as called "to follow in the footsteps of the Messenger and to communicate his message to all nations,"5 and to serve as the rallying point and organizer of a new kind of war to destroy America and bring the world to Islam.

by 1jpb 2008-03-05 09:42AM | 0 recs
Re: another senseless argument

Her foriegn policy decision making is hype, don't believe it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abram s/hillarys-3am-experience_b_89440.html

by 1jpb 2008-03-05 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: another senseless argument

Although I'm sure Hillary voiced her opinion to her husband, she was not the President, he was.  I know my husband doesn't always take my advice (bad decision on his part, I'm sure).  Traveling to over 80 foreign countries should not be overlooked.  So Obama considers her diplomatic trips to foreign lands as the first lady "fancy tea parties", but that is how you build a good dialogue with foreign leaders. The VP does plenty of this, as does the President.  You think Bush wanted to wear those polka-dot pajamas because he thought he looked good?  Even that dolt can occasionally understand the value of foreign customs and respect.  And her years in the senate and on the armed services committee has given her more valuable experience. And although her every sentence isn't "a verb, a noun, and 9/11" (thanks Joe Biden), I would say that was a crisis in her district, and she was right there with Rudy at ground zero (although not so loud about it).  So neither one can go head-to-head with McCain on experience, but she is in a primary battle now, not the GE, so she's going against Obama.  And if you think that if Clinton didn't bring up Obama's lack of experience that McCain just wasn't going to mention or notice it, you're fooling yourself.

by AnnC 2008-03-05 11:10AM | 0 recs
Fair Answer

Since its true it is a fair answer. It is also a different perspective (Judgement) and I can respect that. Having said that he cannot continue to say that his speech against the war qualifies him to be President. I was also against the war. Micheal Moore probably gave no shortage of speeches against the war. His "Judgement" position needs to be about more.

by Wiseprince 2008-03-05 03:11AM | 0 recs
Clinton and McCain didn't even read the NIE

before committing troops to a war that killed thousands of US troops and costs us trillions. Neither of them is fit to be President.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 03:43AM | 0 recs
by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 03:44AM | 0 recs
by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-05 04:28AM | 0 recs
Your excuses for HRC not reading the NIE

in that diary are lame.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Your excuses for HRC not reading the NIE

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-05 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Your excuses for HRC not reading the NIE

Sen. Bob Graham's floor statement urged his fellow Senators to read the full classifed NIE.

Here is Sen. Graham's statement: "Friends, I encourage you to read the classified intelligence reports which are much sharper than what is available in declassified form," Sen. Graham reports stating on the floor of the Senate in October 2002.
"We are going to be increasing the threat level against the people of the United States." He warned: "Blood is going to be on your hands"

HRC was focused on going with the flow, she didn't want to upset her presidential run in the future.    Why else would she push an unconstitutional flag burning ban.

by 1jpb 2008-03-05 09:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton and McCain didn't even read the NIE

So I assume you didn't vote for John Kerry in 2004 because, by these standards, he wouldn't have been fit to be president either?

by AnnC 2008-03-05 03:59AM | 0 recs
Well, Kerry's opponent was Bush the Great himself

I supported Dean in the primary and Kerry in the general.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 07:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Well, Kerry's opponent was Bush the Great hims
Well, if you voted for Kerry then you have no right to burn Clinton on her vote. Find another angle, and if you can't, then you're just like Obama.
by BrandingIron17 2008-03-05 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton and McCain didn't even read the NIE

You need to get a new line.  That "she did't read the NIE" attack line is outdated.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-05 04:30AM | 0 recs
The lives of over a million people were 'outdated'

by the war. Had they been alive, I am sure they would've agreed that holding those that made the war happen accountable (and ensuring that one of them doesn't become the most powerful politician on the planet) is by no means "outdated."

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 07:25AM | 0 recs
Re: The lives of over a million people were 'outda

You have absolutely no right to speak for those people.  The idea that those million people would have all seen it as a priority to stop Hillary Clinton from becoming President is twisted beyond belief.

by Steve M 2008-03-05 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re: The lives of over a million people were 'outda

"You have absolutely no right to speak for those people."

You have absolutely no right to say that I don't.

"The idea that those million people would have all seen it as a priority to stop Hillary Clinton from becoming President is twisted beyond belief."

Why wouldn't it be a "priority" for them given that their lives were sacrificed partly by the political calculations of Hillary Clinton and John McCain?

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: The lives of over a million people were 'outda

It's patently offensive, and typically self-righteous, for you to presume to speak for the war dead.  You're no better than Michelle Malkin telling us how Casey Sheehan would have really felt.

by Steve M 2008-03-05 08:04AM | 0 recs
Re: The lives of over a million people were 'outda

"It's patently offensive, and typically self-righteous, for you to presume to speak for the war dead."

What the hell is wrong with you? Their lives had as much right to continue to exist as yours and mine do. I am not being a representative of some kind for the war dead. I am telling that their lives should not have been brought to an end. I am speaking as a member of the humanity.

Cindy Sheehan would probably agree with everything I have posted here.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: The lives of over a million people were 'outda

Of course their lives mattered.  No one disputes that.  That isn't the point.  The point is that you can't claim to speak for them.  I also find your continual effort to invoke the war dead as patently offensive.  Every bit as offensive as George Bush claiming that those who are against the war are against the troops.  You have no more exclusive of a claim to speak for the troopss than he does.  

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-05 08:51AM | 0 recs
we should ALL speak

for the people unnecessarily killed anywhere. That comes from the bond of humanity we all share.

"Every bit as offensive as George Bush claiming that those who are against the war are against the troops."

Except, Bush's claim is patently false. Whereas it IS a fact that the war killed scores of people unnecessarily.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: we should ALL speak

The "bond of humanity" does not justify putting political opinions in the mouths of the war dead.  I understand you don't see how those people could possibly want anything other than to see Hillary Clinton denied the presidency; that's a mark of the sick, sick mindset you exemplify.  Stick to expressing your own opinions, and don't go around telling us how a million dead people would surely have felt exactly like you do.

by Steve M 2008-03-05 09:17AM | 0 recs
I stand by this 100%:

I am sure they would've agreed that holding those that made the war happen accountable is by no means "outdated."

This is my opinion: and ensuring that one of them doesn't become the most powerful politician on the planet

If we don't hold elected officials accountable for their actions in office, what exactly is a democracy there for?

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: I stand by this 100%:

Perhaps if you had stated this as your own opinion (instead of trying to claim that it is the will of a million war dead) no one would have argued the point with you in the first place.

by LakersFan 2008-03-05 09:47AM | 0 recs
actually, I said:

"I am sure they would've agreed..."

the qualifier "sure" made it quite clear that in my opinion, the million war dead would have agreed w/ my opinions (about holding accountable etc).

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 09:52AM | 0 recs
Re: actually, I said:

Interesting choice of words. Most people express their opinions by saying "I think", "I believe" or "in my opinion". I'm not aware of any place where "sure" means "opinion". But maybe that's becuase I don't own a copy of the nuevo liberal thesaurus since I'm an old school liberal.

by LakersFan 2008-03-05 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: actually, I said:

"I am sure they would've agreed.."

is a less assertive claim than a direct assertion like this:

"They would've agreed.."

There's an implied high degree of probably in "I am sure" in the first sentence. The second one assumes certainty.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 12:46PM | 0 recs
Re: actually, I said:

Parsing.  

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-05 05:53PM | 0 recs
sigh........

there were not enough Democrats to stop the Iraq vote.  Get that through your head.  The Iraq vote argument is so lame even the least educated voters don't fall for it anymore.

Bush started and screwed up the mess in Iraq, he alone is responsible for that loss of life.  Even my dog knows that.

Those Dems who did vote for the Iraq resolution did so to better pressure Saddam BEFORE Bush could resort to military means.

I'm sorry that things like war, foreign affairs and loss of human life are too complex to fit in a signature line.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-03-05 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: sigh........

"there were not enough Democrats to stop the Iraq vote."

Not true. Democrats controlled the senate (and hence the committees), they had a 50-49 edge. They only needed 40 votes to filibuster the IWR/AUMF when they had 50 votes.

"Get that through your head. The Iraq vote argument is so lame even the least educated voters don't fall for it anymore."

Apparently, you're not educated enough on the war vote, but it's never too late.

Even if the Dems were fewer than 40 in numbers, your excuse is still not a good one for voting for the IWR/AUMF.

"Bush started and screwed up the mess in Iraq, he alone is responsible for that loss of life.  Even my dog knows that."

Bush may have not started the war if the Dems weren't going along and instead asked the tough questions and built opposition in the public for the war. They did the opposite.

"Those Dems who did vote for the Iraq resolution did so to better pressure Saddam BEFORE Bush could resort to military means."

HRC doesn't have that as a valid excuse. After the UN inspectors went in and were reporting that no WMD could be found, Hillary was cheerleading Bush to invade:


UN inspectors said:

   March 7, 2003
    Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei, IAEA: After three months of intrusive inspections, we have to date found no evidence or plausible indication of the revival of a nuclear weapon program in Iraq.

   Dr. Hans Blix, Chief U.N. weapons inspector: How much time would it take to resolve the key remaining disarmament tasks? While cooperation can -- cooperation can and is to be immediate, disarmament, and at any rate verification of it, cannot be instant. Even with a proactive Iraqi attitude induced by continued outside pressure, it will still take some time to verify sites and items, analyze documents, interview relevant persons and draw conclusions. It will not take years, nor weeks, but months.

Hillary Clinton's press release:

   March 17, 2003

   Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on the President's Remarks to the Nation

   When the President of the United States addresses the nation about possible military action, it is a solemn occasion for every American. Tonight, the President gave Saddam Hussein one last chance to avoid war, and the world hopes that Saddam Hussein will finally hear this ultimatum, understand the severity of those words, and act accordingly. While we wish there were more international support for the effort to disarm Saddam Hussein, at this critical juncture it is important for all of us to come together in support of our troops and pray that, if war does occur, this mission is accomplished swiftly and decisively with minimum loss of life and civilian casualties. I have had the honor of meeting and speaking with many of our brave men and women in uniform. They are the best trained, equipped, and motivated military in the entire world, we support them fully and we are grateful for their courageous service in these difficult times.

What was that Bush ultimatum that Clinton refers to? It's this: Saddam Hussein Must Leave Iraq Within 48 Hours.
Link

"I'm sorry that things like war, foreign affairs and loss of human life are too complex to fit in a signature line."

The signature line links to detailed information

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: sigh........

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

     (a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--

           (1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

           (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

     (b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION- In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that--

           (1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

           (2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorist and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

     (c) War Powers Resolution Requirements-

           (1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.

           (2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS- Nothing in this joint resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.

_________

The original comment was --

"The lives of over a million people were 'outdated' (none / 0)

by the war. Had they been alive, I am sure they would've agreed that holding those that made the war happen accountable (and ensuring that one of them doesn't become the most powerful politician on the planet) is by no means "outdated."

_________

One year after 9/11, one year after the Congressional anthrax scares, some congresspersons, including Clinton, thought it better to show congressional bipartisan support for the above resolution which put the burden of proof on Bush to justify using military force only after exhausting all other options and only with the support of the United Nations.  

If you want to blame anyone for the vote itself blame Daschle for not being able to keep Libermann  in line or marshalling the 40 votes needed for a filibuster because as it stood, along party lines, Cheney would have been the tie breaker.  There were not the TRUE Democratic votes needed to stop that resolution and IN THAT LIGHT the stronger position for the morale of the troops, the support of the UN and the capitulation of Hussein was to show bi-partisan support for military action IF NEEDED AND CALLED FOR.

bottom line -- Bush thumbed his nose at limits built into the resolution, with the will of the vast majority American people behind him, and then set about doing a decent job of unseating Hussein and one historically ugly job of sustaining an occupation.

It's one thing to say those Democrats who voted for the resolution should not have trusted Bush -- it's quite another to lay all the deaths in Iraq at their feet.  That ugly piece of history belongs only to George Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld.

It's also one thing to suggest junior Senator Clinton didn't show the extraordinary courage and acumen it would have taken to stop that vote single-handedly.   It's quite another to attach reasons for her vote to her, as so many Obama supporters do in a manner that takes simplistic thinking to an ugly level.  It is clear to me from her voting statement that she was not and is not a war-monger,  was deeply concerned for the potential loss of life, did not make the decision lightly,  was not concerned only for her political career, did not understand the implications of her vote or in any way shape or form should be held responsible for the sins of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-03-05 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: sigh........

"It's also one thing to suggest junior Senator Clinton didn't show the extraordinary courage and acumen it would have taken to stop that vote single-handedly."

Suddenly she became a "Junion Senator". Where exactly did the "35 years" of "experiene" go?

"It is clear to me from her voting statement that she was not and is not a war-monger,  was deeply concerned for the potential loss of life, did not make the decision lightly,  was not concerned only for her political career, did not understand the implications of her vote or in any way shape or form should be held responsible for the sins of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld."

Her March 17 statement (cheer-leading Bush despite UN reports of no WMD) nullifies and shows her ealier "concern" as nothing but lip sympathy.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 12:51PM | 0 recs
'Junior'

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton and McCain didn't even read the NIE

"Clinton and McCain didn't even read the NIE...Neither of them is fit to be President."

They didn't NEED to read it because they both actually attended the security briefing in person, where they could meet, listen to, and question the people who wrote the report. That is far better than reading a written report, far more dynamic and nuanced information can be conveyed in person. Merely reading a report is pale and flimsy by comparison.

I find that Obama claim to be particularly spurious and deceitful.

by 07rescue 2008-03-05 04:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton and McCain didn't even read the NIE

If by "nuanced" you mean "furher spun through the war machine" then I agree.

by NJIndependent 2008-03-05 06:21AM | 0 recs
Wait a second

If cross-examining the authors of the reports means "getting further spun by the war machine," then what exactly is supposed to be the value of reading the words those same people wrote?  I mean, if I can spin you when I'm getting cross-examined, I can spin you triple good when I have time to pick my words for a written piece and you have no opportunity to follow up with questions.

by Trickster 2008-03-05 07:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton and McCain didn't even read the NIE

Graham read it, and it motivated him to vote against the war.  He urged others to read the NIE:

Here is Sen. Graham's statement: "Friends, I encourage you to read the classified intelligence reports which are much sharper than what is available in declassified form," Sen. Graham reports stating on the floor of the Senate in October 2002.
"We are going to be increasing the threat level against the people of the United States." He warned: "Blood is going to be on your hands"

by 1jpb 2008-03-05 10:00AM | 0 recs
They weren't on the intelligence committee

(Even if they were, they would only have seen the testimony portion.)

"both actually attended the security briefing in person"

Hillary Clinton, or you (since you're claiming authoritatively about this) provide the date of this claimed briefing and a link to verify that the entire content of the 90 page NIE report was read at such a meeting. Otherwise, JM and HRC would still be derelict in duty.

Remember that staffers or others couldn't have read the NIE because it was classified. So we can strike the idea that staffers may have read it and given her the gist.

This is what Sen. Graham told his senate colleagues:


Friends, I encourage you to read the classified intelligence reports which are much sharper than what is available in declassified form," Sen. Graham reports stating on the floor of the Senate in October 2002.
Link

Which, in addition to stressing the importance of reading the 90 page NIE, indicates that not much may have been available to senators outside of that classified NIE besides the declassified 25 page version (which was a snow job):


(Graham on the 25 page declassified version of the NIE)
The American people needed to know these reservations, and I requested that an unclassified, public version of the NIE be prepared. On Oct. 4, Tenet presented a 25-page document titled "Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs." It represented an unqualified case that Hussein possessed them, avoided a discussion of whether he had the will to use them and omitted the dissenting opinions contained in the classified version. Its conclusions, such as "If Baghdad acquired sufficient weapons-grade fissile material from abroad, it could make a nuclear weapon within a year," underscored the White House's claim that exactly such material was being provided from Africa to Iraq.
link

This is one of the things Graham said about the classified 90 page NIE:


There were troubling aspects to this 90-page document. While slanted toward the conclusion that Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction stored or produced at 550 sites, it contained vigorous dissents on key parts of the information, especially by the departments of State and Energy. Particular skepticism was raised about aluminum tubes that were offered as evidence Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear program. As to Hussein's will to use whatever weapons he might have, the estimate indicated he would not do so unless he was first attacked.

The last line establishes that Saddam was not a threat. Given these, why DID Hillary Clinton vote for the IWR, if she was in fact briefed (as being claimed)?

Hillary Clinton must:

  1. provide documentation of her claims that she received briefings on the 90 page NIE
  2. prove that the full content of the NIE was read in such briefings
  3. answer why she voted for the IWR/AUMF even though the NIE said that Saddam would not have used any weapons he may have had unless first attacked.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 07:19AM | 0 recs
Not reading NIE

So, it's not ok to be breifed by the people that WROTE the nie??

by del 2008-03-05 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton and McCain didn't even read the NIE

Ninety-four out of 100 senators didn't read the NIE and of those who did, some, like Jay Rockefeller, still voted for AUMF. Hillary got briefed on the NIE and sought out and received other intelligence as well. Why are you so eager to pin the Iraq war on Democrats, rather than on Bush and the GOP? Do you honestly think Bush wasn't going to get his war on by hook or by crook?

by Inky 2008-03-05 04:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton and McCain didn't even read the NIE

"Hillary got briefed on the NIE and sought out and received other intelligence as well."

Where is the documentation for this?

Please see also my response above

"Why are you so eager to pin the Iraq war on Democrats, rather than on Bush and the GOP?"

Hillary shamelessly said McCain was better than Obama and is employed rightwing style negative attack methods to screw the presidential race up for the Democratic party. Why don't you direct such a question at her?

On the war, I am pinning it on everyone that helped make the war happen and now wants to become President.

"Do you honestly think Bush wasn't going to get his war on by hook or by crook?"

Yes, had enough members of congress stood up to oppose the war, and had enough of them read the NIE and voted against the war, and leveled with the American people and exposed the lies being told about the war, Bush would not have had the political will to invade Iraq.

The situation w/ Iraq then was somewhat similar to how even though Bush, Cheney and the neocons are itching to invade Iran, the political will isn't currently there for Bush to take the second plunge. Hillary Clinton and McCain's votes for Kyl-Lieberman did give him some political ammunition but it was undone to a large degree by, guess what... the Iran NIE from late last year.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 07:38AM | 0 recs
Re: bwaaaahahahahaha

Not as desperate as you are. Have you even made a negative comment on Hillary? It's always praise Hillary and bash Obama. As if the issue is so black and white(not literally of course).

The foolish one is not Obama. It is the person who actually went along to some extent with the Iraq war fiasco.

by Pravin 2008-03-05 07:37AM | 0 recs
Yep, that's the difference...

Between a strong candidate who can actually beat McCain while talking security issues (Hillary) and a weaker candidate who can't (Obama). Sorry, but he really screwed up on this. This just shows why he couldn't seal the deal last night... We're still looking for a strong nominee who can win.

by atdleft 2008-03-05 03:38AM | 0 recs
Apparently,

no he can't, is his campaign message.  What a wonderful commercial he just made for the Republicans in the fall.

by Beltway Dem 2008-03-05 04:01AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

The national security argument seems to be Obama's achilles heel along with the inexperience. His response to the 3 a.m. ad was very weak.

He's giving McCain a roadmap to win the WH with his statements. All McCain has to do is keep arguing national security and he wins if Obama is the nominee.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-05 04:24AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

With Hillary, Iraq won't be as big a weakness for McCain. It will be 2004 all over again where Kerry was hamstrung by his initial vote.

by Pravin 2008-03-05 07:38AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

Nope, the war vote wasn't what killed Kerry, it was the demographics and the swiftboaters. Obama has the same demographic problems. And Obama has shown poor response to any attack.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-05 07:47AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

I seem to remember yesterday that it was the END OF THE WORLD when Hillary questioned Obama's experience on national security.

This much I know: whether you think Hillary's attacks on national security issues are fair or unfair, reality is that if Obama can't even deflect a rather mild ad ("something's happening in the world") from Hillary Frickin' Clinton in a DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, he would have no chance amongst the general electorate when the Republicans go full-bore "elect Obama and the terrorists will kill us all."

My opinion is that Obama came across far better when he was directly taking on the premises of the 3am ad ("I have the judgment to handle a crisis") than when his surrogates were whining about the terrible, terrible fearmongering.  Be that as it may, he needs to figure out how to handle the issue or the Democratic Party can't afford to nominate him.

by Steve M 2008-03-05 04:50AM | 0 recs
Another Red Phone blunder by BO...

He produced his own "answer" to the Clinton ad and even used the same opening footage.

It was childish - "I have a better ad than you, na na" AND it called even more attention to the substance of Clinton's commercial.

Remember the diary.."It's not always about you Obama"?  That ad had NOTHING to do with Obama and everything to do with Hillary's own qualifications to handle such a situation.

Obama et al (his advisors) DO NOT HAVE THE EXPERIENCE - in many many ways - to be POTUS.  His blunder with the Canadian embassy/consulate matter shows he doesn't even know how these things work.

NOT GOOD!

by Shazone 2008-03-05 06:28AM | 0 recs
Re: good lord

Actually he said "none of us" have been in that situation.

I didn't think it was a particularly effective answer, but it wasn't quite as bad as the misquoting in the diary (because it also implied that McCain hadn't been in that situation).

Of course, the flip side is that while Hillary may not have answered that call, she was lying in bed with the person who answered it for 8 years and presumably they talked about what was going, so she did learn a lot from being there.

by dcg2 2008-03-05 05:09AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

Wow!  that Obama comment will make a great ad for McCain.
As well as Obama's "Harry and Louise" ad and attack on universal health care.

Obama's scorched earth tactics against Dem values and the base are a big negative for me.  He's attacked and mocked UHC, trial lawyers, called unions "special interests" - all in an effort to knock out Dem opponents and attract Repubs and Indys who MAY not vote for him in Nov.

by annefrank 2008-03-05 05:10AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

Yet, Obama supporters call for Clinton to drop out because she is "destroying the party".  More likely because they didn't want her to win OH, and they definitely don't want her to win PA.

by AnnC 2008-03-05 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

Are you freakin' kidding me?!!?  Link? Please God, let there be a link.

by dhonig 2008-03-05 05:23AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

Hoping to see it on youtube later today.

by Mike Pridmore 2008-03-05 05:36AM | 0 recs
I can see the commercial now!!!!

It will be short and sweet.  And devastating.

Words do count!

by Shazone 2008-03-05 05:25AM | 0 recs
This is another example of why it is

imperative for the superdelegates to NOT endorse prematurely.

by Rumarhazzit 2008-03-05 05:26AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

"Neither of us do?"

If this quote is accurate (I have to see the YouTube to believe, in this day and age), then that's just about the stupidest thing he could say.

He says he's not ... and then turns around and says that the other plausible Democratic candidate isn't either.

Our wunderkind bridge-builder is forgetting that you can't obliterate one side of the chasm and then expect to build the bridge.

by Sieglinde 2008-03-05 05:35AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

The least effective positioning that we've been hearing last night and this morning from the Obama campaign is the "MATH" arguement.

"It's the MATH, no way she can win."

First, it is not true. With MI and FL back in the mix, there are plenty of delegates left.

Second, it looks weak and desperate, like the kid who tries to take the ball and go home after the 3rd quarter.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-05 05:46AM | 0 recs
What a persuasive argument to remaining voters

Vote for me because I'm giving you a math essay on why your vote doesn't count.

by Trickster 2008-03-05 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

OOOPS  lol

by LindaSFNM 2008-03-05 06:21AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

Yes, correct.  That clip was just stored in every Republican video library.

by LindaSFNM 2008-03-05 06:22AM | 0 recs
THIS IS GOOD,

I can't wait to hear the WORM(What Obama Really Meant) to explain this latest manifestation of his hot air campaign.

The Audacity of Hype

by jfoster 2008-03-05 06:53AM | 0 recs
Unbelievable

please post the clip because I have to see it with my own eyes to believe a major candidate could be that dumb.  

My understanding is Clinton's "3AM" ad took a pounding from the infotainment news and while the rank and file voters thought it over the top the message was still embedded.  Personally I thought his response ad stank of desperate reactiveness, like he was just hit in a big nerve.  

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-03-05 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

I just saw the video.  This diary is incorrect.  It is here, find the video entitled Obama unfazed by results.  Start at 3:36:

Q: Well let me ask you, what specific experience do you have in handling a crisis that would make you the better person to field that 3 a.m. phone call?

A: Well, and that's the point, nobody does, because nobody's been in that situation unless they've been President. The question then becomes who's got the kind of judgment on these critical issues that shows some evidence that you can in fact understand how the world is operating and when we have to deal with issues in a military way, and on question like Iraq, on questions like Pakistan and Iran, I think that the judgment I've shown over the last several, several years has been superior to both Senator Clinton's and to Senator McCain's.  And if longevity is the measure by which we determine who's got the best experience to answer that phone call, then John McCain wins because he's been there the longest.

Q: She ...

A: But that's not the criteria. The question is who's got the best judgment, and I think that my record looks pretty good compared to theirs.

Hillary was asked the same question.  Look for the video entitled Making a Comeback, at 3:53:

Q:  Can you tell us what specific experience in handling a crisis that you can point to that would make you better equipped to handle that White House phone at 3 a.m.?

A:  Well, of coures, you know, I've got a lifetime of experience. Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience.  Senator Obama's whole campaign is about one speech he made in 2002.  You know, I was involved for fifteen years in, you know, foreign policy and security policy.  you know, I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland.  I negotiated open borders to let fleeing refugees into safey from Kosovo.  I've been standing up against the Chinese Government over women's and standing up for human rights in many different places.  I served on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and I was the only Senator, of either party, asked to be on an important task force put together by the Pentagon under this Administration to figure out what to do with our military going forward.  I have so much exerience.  I have experience traveling to more than 80 countries representing the United States, sitting down with Presidents and Prime Ministers and Kings, having the chance to represent our coutnry in some very dificult situations.  I'm offering a lifetime of experience and I think that's a sharp contrast to my opponent's offer.

by dhonig 2008-03-05 07:18AM | 0 recs
WOW!

What a surpassingly stupid answer!  It reminds me of the times that his surrogates have been asked to cite some of his achievements and haven't been able to come up with any.  He is doing the same thing.  He failed to name even a single incident that actually shows his judgment.  He just simply asserted that his judgment is better, regardless of experience.

If he's the nominee, get ready for headlines like  "Dems lose by a landslide."

by PlainWords 2008-03-05 07:30AM | 0 recs
Obama was answering literally to the question

on the matter of direct experience in handling crises. The experience listed by Hillary Clinton (some of which she blows out of proportion) provides only a background, but not direct role in handling crises. Obama can cite his experience related to procuring loose nukes (on which he traveled to some places, passed the Lugar-Obama bill etc) if he were to respond non-literally.

Note again how Hillary Clinton is shamelessly and blatantly dissing Obama and propping up McCain.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama was answering literally : Too bad!

Describe it however you want, it was still stupid.  And it's very stupidity shows a lack of judgment.  We will be seeing more and more failures like this from Obama as the pressure increases.  He is just not up to it.

by PlainWords 2008-03-05 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama was answering literally to the question
I suppose that 9/11 wasn't at all a crisis situation, then.
by BrandingIron17 2008-03-05 08:47AM | 0 recs
Who is better qualified?

Based on these two interviews:

Obama's qualification = that speech he gave many years ago (but which remained JUST WORDS, because he never diverged from his colleagues on the question of Iraq when he was in the Senate)

Clinton's qualification = been there, done that.

I know who I'd hire.

by Sieglinde 2008-03-05 07:46AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

I don't see why you label the diary incorrect, it's certainly cursory, but the gist seems to be quite accurate.  I do appreciate you posting the full remarks.

I wonder if all the people who were in a tizzy yesterday, all because Hillary dared to suggest McCain might have an edge over Obama on experience, will have a similar problem with Obama's answer here.  My guess is no.

by Steve M 2008-03-05 07:47AM | 0 recs
'specific experience in handling a crisis'
was what Obama was asked:

Q: Well let me ask you, what specific experience do you have in handling a crisis that would make you the better person to field that 3 a.m. phone call?

and he literally answered the question:
by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: 'specific experience in handling a crisis'

Yes, yes, I understand you live on a planet where Obama's response to the NAFTA controversy was parsed out to be 100% accurate as well.  That's great, and you can post all the comments you want attempting to reinvent reality, but understand that I do not live there with you.

You remind me of all the Obama supporters who tried to tell us what Michelle Obama really meant with her comments about being proud of the country.  It's as though you have no understanding of politics whatsoever, and you think real opinions and real votes will be swayed according to whatever dictionary definitions you choose to post.  IN the real world of real elections, if someone asks you about your "specific experience in handling a crisis," you don't give an awful-sounding answer and then defend yourself later by pointing out that you were answering the literal question.  You turn the question into something you can answer in a positive way for your candidacy.  That's how politics works.

by Steve M 2008-03-05 08:07AM | 0 recs
I understand that you play your part

in the trash-Obama caucus here at myDD.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: I understand that you play your part

I try to raise what I see as valid concerns about Obama, notwithstanding people like you who do not believe there has ever been a valid concern expressed about Barack Obama in history.

by Steve M 2008-03-05 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: I understand that you play your part

You misquoted me actually. I don't think that the Obama campaign handled the NAFTA story well at all (and they likely paid a steep price for it on 3/4). OTOH, if you keep the timeline in mind, Obama's denial can be seen as referring to the debunked original CTV story; mattw's diary is a good one to go over. I actually do criticize Obama when I find that that's warranted (there are a lot of instances where I have done so at DK or here).

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 09:31AM | 0 recs
Re: I understand that you play your part

Arguing that Obama's unequivocal denial somehow related only to the specific details of the original CTV story is the sign of someone who is deeply, deeply in the tank.  That's not a game you get to play and retain your credibility.

by Steve M 2008-03-05 09:37AM | 0 recs
The pathetic excuses people make for Hillary

Clinton's war vote isn't a sign of people who are "deeply, deeply in the tank??"

I didn't study the NAFTA story by myself closely enough. I refer to mattw's diary as good account as far as I can tell.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 09:43AM | 0 recs
Also, quoting partial sentences

is not honest.

Obama's sentence: Well, and that's the point, nobody does, because nobody's been in that situation unless they've been President.

(which, BTW, shows that he was addressing the question literally in that sentence)

Diarist's convenient truncation: "Well, and that's the point, nobody does."

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 08:08AM | 0 recs
Tip of the hat

to you for providing the full quotation/context for calling the diary incorrect.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 07:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Tip of the hat

It wasn't a knock on the diary, merely a correction.  Obama's words were incredibly stupid, just not quite as incredibly stupid as originally reported.

by dhonig 2008-03-05 08:05AM | 0 recs
Half a tip of the hat then :)

The full sentence is not stupid, as he was saying that the crises that a President faces are crises that you face once you get there.

He should've added a couple of things on the judgement point he was making and related national security experience of his.

It's Hillary's propping up of McCain while dissing Obama that's actually offensive and inappropriate here.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-03-05 08:14AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

This diary is a lie.

According to mattcho:

His response?  "That's the point, neither of us do."

That is not what Obama said. Quote marks mean something. Don't use them until you understand what they mean.

And don't use them to lie.

by rmx2630 2008-03-05 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

I just saw the video and he was horrible. He will lose this arguement, badly. She has been in the whitehouse when those calls come in and has been there as a soundng board and confidant of the president making those decisions. I don't even think McCain would question that.

Obama has nothing but to keep going back to his speech in 2002. People are going to get tired of hearing, "I told you so." He needs to come up with more than that.

He looked like the rookie he is in that video.

by americanincanada 2008-03-05 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

All OH & TX dems have done is help John McCain.  Hillary Clinton will never be president. It going to either be President Obama or President McCain.  All OH & TX did is make it more likely to be the latter.  dummies

Speaking of dummies: simply reiterating Senator Obama's middle name (even in CAPITAL LETTERS), like a freakin' retard, isn't going to defeat him, and isn't even relevant to this debate. Get over it.

by Democrat in Chicago 2008-03-05 07:39AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

Typical Obamacrat ... blame the Democrats for f*ing things up.  OH and TX dummies?  Well said, "Democrat" from Chicago.  Like leader, like follower.

by Sieglinde 2008-03-05 07:51AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

As an Obama supporter, I hope Clinton keeps pushing the "experience" line in an election that is obviously about "change."  Hillary was miles ahead in TX and OH and still ended up gaining only about a dozen delegates.  

It's still an uphill climb for Hillary.  The only way she can win is to destroy the party.

by JK47 2008-03-05 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

It is about change.  Didn't you see the results last night?

Things have changed, indeed.

by Sieglinde 2008-03-05 07:52AM | 0 recs
Tomorrow's Clinton ad

(deep scary voice) When Barack Obama was asked if he had the experience to answer the White House phone in a time of crises he answered:

(roll video) Well, and that's the point, nobody does

(voice again) Hillary Clinton does. Hillary Clinton was involved for fifteen years inforeign policy and security policy. Hillary Clinton helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland. Hillary Clinton negotiated open borders to fleeing refugees from Kosovo. Hillary Clinton stood up against the Chinese Government over women's rights and human rights. She served on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and was the only Senator, of either party, asked to work with the Pentagon to plan the future of our military. Hillary Clinton has met with Presidents and Prime Ministers and Kings. Hillary Clinton, a lifetime of experience.

by dhonig 2008-03-05 07:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Tomorrow's Clinton ad

Pretty good, but I'd end it like this:

(voiceover)

Hillary Clinton had the courage to vote for the Authorization to Use Military Force even though we all knew at the time she only voted for it as to not look "soft" in a future presidential election.  She stood side-by-side with George W. Bush in bringing you the worst American foreign policy blunder in recent memory.  When the phone rings at 3 AM, you can count on her to do the most politically expedient thing.

(superimpose images of charred corpses)

Hillary Clinton: a lifetime of experience screwing over the American people to further her own ends.

(fade)

by JK47 2008-03-05 08:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Tomorrow's Clinton ad

No, that's Obama's response, if he responds like he did to the 3 a.m. ad. The problem is, his gaffe was so bad he can't do it.

by dhonig 2008-03-05 08:03AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call
Seriously? "Neither of us do?"

LOL! Good job, Barry. Not the smoothest answer ever. Way to take Hillary down with you, though!

by sricki 2008-03-05 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: CNN Obama blunder on 3 AM call

No, he said "None of us do," as in, including McCain.

by JK47 2008-03-05 08:18AM | 0 recs
At the end of the day

It's not going to be about what I think or what anyone hear thinks about their qualification, the Iraq Resolution, who's responsible for what and who's can or cannot vote for who.

It's going to come down to what the majority of the American people think.  And the vast majority of the American people supported the Iraq war in 2002, think it was conducted badly, blame Bush and Cheney for it and want us out in the safest fastest way possible.

Regardless of the personal feelings of Kossacks and ardent "she voted for war" Obama supporters, that tack is not going to gain an ounce of traction with voters who have more pressing concerns like who is the best equipped person to get us out.

Obama's "I was right once five years ago" line has lost all it's steam with the general electorate as people focus in on what needs to happen now.  They righfully blame Bush for the conduct of the war and getting us into it in the first place, not the senators who stood behind him when he had a 70% approval rating and the entire country was snookered.  

Oh, wow.  Clinton was wrong about Bush in 2002.  She has an assload of company.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-03-05 11:00AM | 0 recs

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