Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

They have been here before, the Palestinians, that is. They have seen and heard it all. They understand the tactics of Israeli PMs like Bibi Netanyahu, as following an old Israeli strategy to stall, divert, and stonewall any movement that would curb the colonization of Palestine. This is just what happened at the UN the other day during Obama's meeting with Netanyahu and Abbas. About this, left wing observers of the conflict agree.

Here are some conclusions.

Ali Abunimah, the Palestinian editor of The Electronic Intifada, on 24 September 2009 wrote these words about Obama's presentation at the UN.

Obama's peace effort has failed but our struggle continues

The meeting hosted by US President Barack Obama with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas at New York's Waldorf Astoria hotel on 22 September signaled the complete and terminal failure of Obama's much vaunted push to bring about a two-state solution to the Palestine/Israel conflict.

(snip)

....consider what the US is really saying to the Palestinians in the wake of Mitchell's failure: "We, the greatest superpower on Earth, are unable to convince Israel -- which is dependent on us militarily, economically and diplomatically -- to abide by even a temporary settlement freeze. Now, you Palestinians, who are a dispossessed, occupied people whose leaders cannot move without an Israeli permit, go and negotiate on much bigger issues like borders, refugees, Jerusalem and settlements, and do better than we did. Good luck to you."

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article 10791.shtml

Then we have the venerable Uri Avnery, an Israeli peace activist, chiming in:

The Drama and the Farce

NO POINT denying it: in the first round of the match between Barack Obama and Binyamin Netanyahu, Obama was beaten.

Obama had demanded a freeze of all settlement activity, including East Jerusalem, as a condition for convening a tripartite summit meeting, in the wake of which accelerated peace negotiations were to start, leading to peace between two states - Israel and Palestine.

In the words of the ancient proverb, a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. Netanyahu has tripped Obama on his first step. The President of the United States has stumbled.

THE THREEFOLD summit did indeed take place. But instead of a shining achievement for the new American administration, we witnessed a humbling demonstration of weakness. After Obama was compelled to give up his demand for a settlement freeze, the meeting no longer had any content.

(snip)

The Israeli peace movement has been dealt another painful blow. It had pinned its hopes on the steadfastness of the American president. Obama's victory and the settlement freeze were to show the Israeli public that the refusal policy of Netanyahu was leading to disaster.

(snip)

For Netanyahu, the threat of peace has passed. At least for the time being.

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/chan nels/avnery/1253719686/

And lastly, we have Steven L. Spiegel and David Halperin, left wing Jewish Americans, writing apologetically for the Israel Policy Forum:

Obama Pivots and Re-loads on Mideast Peace

Much of the analysis following this week's tripartite meeting in New York reported a victory for Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a failure for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and a blow to President Obama's efforts to advance Mideast peace and security.   But the process is just beginning; it's far from over.

(snip)

The United States came to a pragmatic realization that the expectations for a complete settlement freeze had become too high.  The issue was becoming the main focus, in essence hijacking the agenda and keeping the broader strategic objectives at bay.

(snip)

President Obama used his remarks at the United Nations General Assembly to express the strongest endorsement yet by an American president for a "viable, independent" Palestinian state, one "with contiguous territory that ends the occupation that began in 1967, and realizes the potential of the Palestinian people." He said "the United States does Israel no favors when we fail to couple an unwavering commitment to its security with an insistence that Israel respect the legitimate claims and rights of the Palestinians."

(snip)

Of course, Obama also made similarly strong statements for Israel, declaring America's "unwavering commitment to its security" and stating that "nations within this body do the Palestinians no favors when they choose vitriolic attacks against Israel over constructive willingness to recognize Israel's legitimacy and its right to exist in peace and security." And, Netanyahu was delighted after the speech that the president had endorsed the concept of Israel as a Jewish state, a key demand of his administration in any future talks.  

http://israelpolicyforum.org/blog/obama- pivots-and-re-loads-mideast-peace

And so didn't George Bush fail at the same thing at Annapolis just a year ago?

So what are we to believe? Nine months into the peace process, if one can call it that, after the grand Cairo speech signaling a new beginning, Netanyahu blew Obama off. Netanyahu avoided any movement toward a two state solution, while gaining advocacy, from Obama, to continue Israel's colonization of the Palestinian territories.

Not only did Netanyahu win the status quo, he got Obama to do his Iran saber rattling (see yesterday's headlines). And the tail wags the dog once again.

Tags: Abbas, Israel, Netanyahu, obama, Palestine (all tags)

Comments

40 Comments

Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

Thanks for this sober and balanced report. If only the participants in the Middle East Peace struggle had your ability to reach out, show respect, and build bridges, then the world would be a much better place.

Keep up the good work. You're a SAINT!

by QTG 2009-09-26 05:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

Not exactly, but thanks for the thought.

Publicizing this human rights dilemma, whereby Israel has kept the Palestinian people under military occupation for 42 years now, while it proceeded to confiscate and colonize their lands, expecially with the military assistance of the US, just cannot be ignored.

This is just one of many human rights causes around the world, but this is the only one right now that the US is assisting in, against the very principles we are supposed to uphold.

by MainStreet 2009-09-26 05:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

After Israel failed to conform to Oslo-Clinton era agreements, and the failed the Bush-Road Map era agreement not to continue settlement building, the Cairo-Obama era failure just witnessed, as we all now know, will not get Israel out of the Palestinian territories it continues to colonize.

Boycotts, divestment, and sanctions is the obvioius way forward.

Phillip Weiss reported this advancement in the BDS Movement yesterday: Code Pink will join the boycott movement.

Non-violent tool of boycott is the only recourse- Code Pink

September 25, 2009

Code Pink has informed Omar Barghouti that the peace group will do as Palestinians have asked of westerners who care about self-determination for Palestinians, and endorse the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement. From the Pink tank (apologies, it's their pun):

Decades of a so-called "peace process" have only resulted in further dispossession and oppression of Palestinians, both inside Israel and in the Occupied Territories: home demolitions in East Jerusalem, settlement expansion in the West Bank, the Annexation wall separating Palestinians from their land and from each other, and the terrorizing of Gazan fishermen and West Bank farmers. What recourse do we have as concerned citizens, whose tax dollars are subsidizing a brutal occupation and whose government blocks any meaningful international response to Israel's flouting of international law? We have at our disposal the non-violent tool of boycott, which was successfully used during the Civil Rights Movement here in the United States and against the Apartheid Regime of South Africa.

http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/non-violen t-tool-of-boycott-is-the-only-recourse-c ode-pink.html


by MainStreet 2009-09-26 05:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

Wow, I'd like to be a fly on the wall when Bibi finds out he's in Code Pink's cross-hairs!

Finally, a REAL solution!!!!

by QTG 2009-09-26 05:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

For reference sake, Code Pink was started in 2002 to protest the Iraq war. Since then it has involved itself in many international conflicts including Israel-Palestine and has become an international organization of women.

ISRAEL & PALESTINE

believes in the implementation of human rights and international law on both sides

believes in supporting and empowering Palestinian self-determination, but we do not take a stance on a two-state or a one-state solution--it is not within our role as internationals or a U.S. based organization to advocate on behalf of a particular solution on behalf of Palestinians

condemns violence against civilians on both sides, but we see the Israeli occupation and the blockade of Gaza as among the root causes of the conflict, and view the end of the Israeli occupation and a lifting of the blockade of Gaza as key steps towards reaching a just and lasting solution.

condemns the use of our national resources to financially and diplomatically support the ongoing occupation and blockade

stands in solidarity with nonviolent activists working for peace, and conscientious objectors, throughout the region and around the world

On CODEPINK's most recent trip to Gaza, the glimmer of hope we found among people in Gaza was the Obama administration. Many were upset that Obama did not speak out during the invasion and that peace envoy George Mitchell, on his first trip to the Middle East, did not visit Gaza or even Syria. But they felt that Mitchell was a good choice and Obama, if given the space by the American people, could play a positive role. Who can provide that space for Obama? Who can respond to the call for justice from the Palestinian people? Who can counter AIPAC, the powerful lobby that supports Israeli aggression? An organized, mobilized, coordinated grassroots movement is the critical counterforce-- and we need you to stand with us and do your part for peace!

As Sholom Schwartzbard, a member of Jews Against the Occupation, explained at a New York City protest, "We know from our own history what being sealed behind barbed wire and checkpoints is like, and we know that `Never Again' means not anyone, not anywhere - or it means nothing at all." A peaceful and just resolution of the tragedy of occupation, now in its 42nd year, will be a relief and blessing to Israel as well as to the Palestinians.

by MainStreet 2009-09-26 05:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

I thought you were praising Code Pink! They've been at this since 2002? WTF!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_ Israel

And you think Obama is a failure?

Dude. You need to circle your wagon and come up with a better plan, or the Middle East may be in bad shape for months to come.

by QTG 2009-09-26 06:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

An obvious praise of Code Pink.

Dude, whatever that means, I have a plan, but Obama and company are not listening. Maybe you have one that will get through to them.

by MainStreet 2009-09-26 06:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

Not me! I'm on your team. Everyone else is hopeless and untrustworthy.

I think we should hold our team to the same standard that we use to evaluate the competition, though - you know, for fairness's sake. What do we get, 8 months, 4 years, 8 years?

by QTG 2009-09-26 06:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

Bye, bye.

by MainStreet 2009-09-26 07:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

Good strategy: If you are uncomfortable with your neighbors, ignore them.

I like it!

You not only have the best ideas, you set a very good example. Now, what can I do to get you to engage me... Intifada? Recruit some kid to wear a vest? I need to think.

by QTG 2009-09-26 07:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

Spain excludes settlement university from academic competition

20 September 2009

The "University Center of Ariel in Samaria" (AUCS) has been excluded from a prestigious university competition about sustainable architecture in Spain. With this move, Spain joins the growing number of European governments taking effective, even though preliminary, steps to uphold international law by boycotting or divesting from institutions and corporations involved in or profiting from Israel's illegal Wall and colonial settlements built on occupied Palestinian land..

"Ariel University Centre of Samaria" was one out of 21 teams selected last April to compete for the Solar Decathlon-Madrid 2010, the most prestigious competition for sustainable architecture in the world, organized by the Spanish Ministry of Housing together with the Universidad Politécnica de Madrid .[1]

Selected teams, formed by architects and engineering students are asked to design and build a real house entirely driven by solar energy. Every house should be built in one of the 20 sites in the "Solar Villa" planned in Madrid to host them. To facilitate participation of the various teams, the Spanish Ministry of Housing allocated a sum of 100,000 Euros to every project.

Last Wednesday,September 16th, Sergio Vega, General Director of Solar Decathlon Europe addressed all participant teams to inform them of the exclusion of AUCS:"The decision has been taken by the Government of Spain based upon the fact that the University is located in the [occupied] West Bank. The Government of Spain is obliged to respect the international agreements under the framework of the European Union and the United Nations regarding this geographical area." It represents the first case of sanctions against an Israeli academic institution in Spain and one of the very first such actions in the West.

The Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions National Committee (BNC) in Palestine has taken up the campaign against official Spanish support of the illegal Israeli university in occupied Palestinian territory following an initiative of the UK based professional association, Architects and Planners for Justice in Palestine (APJP). The support of many individuals and organizations in Spain for the cancellation of AUCS's participation in the Solar Decathlon had culminated in a parliamentary question in the Spanish Parliament [2] and the eventual exclusion of the illegal settlement academic institution from the competition.

http://palsolidarity.org/2009/09/8488

by MainStreet 2009-09-26 08:06AM | 0 recs
A very liberal member of Congress

one said to me

"If CodePink is on your side, you've already lost"

by DTOzone 2009-09-26 05:45PM | 0 recs
Re: A very liberal member of Congress

Name and link would help.

by MainStreet 2009-09-27 03:13AM | 0 recs
A link to a personal conversation

but if you must know, Jerry Nadler, March 2007, in the green room at PBS after Code Pink interrupted a Hillary Clinton fundraiser...He was commenting on how Clinton would be better off having Code Pink AGAINST her in the primaries.

by DTOzone 2009-09-27 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: A link to a personal conversation

Please provide video or notarized transcript that we may analyze in out basement labs to ensure you haven't doctored them as part of a right wing conspiracy.

Of course, if one doesn't agree with MainStreet he unilaterally expells you from the "left wing," of which he is the authoritative arbiter.  So Nadler is a neo-con now.  How the mighty have fallen...

by Strummerson 2009-09-27 09:39AM | 0 recs
Well ever been to Nadler's district?

or at least the Brooklyn part of his district?

It's almost entirely Jewish and McCain won it.

Need I say more?

Nadler is actually pretty reasonable on the Middle East considering where he's from. Anthony Weiner and Gary Ackerman, for example, who are much more radically pro-Israel
(and similarly progressive on other issues) represent districts with less radically pro-Israel populations.

by DTOzone 2009-09-27 09:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Well ever been to Nadler's district?

I know the constituency well.  It was snark aimed at MS's reflexive demand that everyone else cite sources when he often does so at his convenience.  Then, if he doesn't agree, he calls you right wing and at the same time accuses you of attacking him.  It's just a routine MO.

by Strummerson 2009-09-27 10:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Well ever been to Nadler's district?

Whoa dude.  Obama won Nadler's district 74-26!!!

by Steve M 2009-09-28 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Well ever been to Nadler's district?

No fair trying to confuse the argument with facts.

by markjay 2009-09-28 08:19PM | 0 recs
Re: A link to a personal conversation

And how wrong Nadler was afterall.

And for your disparagement of this left wing organization, you are, per Strummerson's authority, expelled from the left wing. If Red State is still active, you are free to join.

And the same advise goes to Strummerson, in defense of your free speech.

by MainStreet 2009-09-27 11:27AM | 0 recs
Re: A link to a personal conversation

See.  We're expelled by Komissar MainStreet who controls the definition of the left wing in this country.  Off to the Gulag with both of us!

by Strummerson 2009-09-27 11:45AM | 0 recs
More on the BDS Movement.

This diary appeared on Daily Kos yesterday.

Mainstream Israeli Analyst: Only Sanctions will Make Israelis Care (w/Update)

by Assaf

Fri Sep 25, 2009

Aluf Benn is a veteran Ha'aretz columnist. Don't mistake him as an anti-Occupation maverick like Amira Hass or Gideon Levy; Aluf Benn embodies the Israeli consensus.

During the 2006 Lebanon war, for example, he sucked up to then-PM Olmert so bad, it hurt. After Olmert's war-opening speech, Benn wrote (quoting from memory): "today a politician has turned into a statesman." Ya.

In short, Aluf Benn is not the type of Israeli columnist you'd expect to write this:

Only one thing does bother the Israelis, according to the polls: fear of a diplomatic embargo and an international boycott.

...as long as relations with the rest of the world are satisfactory, Israelis see no reason to emerge from indifference and listen to the president of the United States.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9 /26/12957/1052

Assaf is an Israeli-American working living in the US.

by MainStreet 2009-09-26 08:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

Uri Avnery is a smart guy in this diary.  But on the subject of the Israel boycott he's a complete idiot, right?

by Steve M 2009-09-26 12:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

Right.

by MainStreet 2009-09-26 12:39PM | 0 recs
I respect your diaries

I have always admired your work, but I have to ask you to substantially lower your expectations on this issue from the WH, because beyond grandiose speeches there will not be much of anything else. For starters look up the Middle East Advisers list and show me one person who is either Arab or understands the Arab/Muslim side of the this debate. There are none. So keep up your good work but keep your expectations low.

by tarheel74 2009-09-26 07:22PM | 0 recs
This is laughable

coming from someone who last year supported perhaps the most pro-Israel Democratic candidate for President in history.

by DTOzone 2009-09-26 09:48PM | 0 recs
Re: This is laughable

If you had actually cared to exercise that incurious mind of yours you would find that Obama's middle east experts are the same people who were advising the Clintons and even George W Bush. Some of them are the most pro-Israel people in this country. However there is not one, repeat not one, person of Muslim or Arab heritage in that committee.

Conversely, you can also argue that Bibi has figured out that Obama is all words, he can flout US pressure and make all the settlements he wants and all this government will do is give another speech. Speeches without something to back them up are just empty words.

by tarheel74 2009-09-27 07:26AM | 0 recs
oh I'm aware

I'm also aware these are some of the same people who advised the presidential campaign of the woman who's one-sided foreign policy position YOU DEFENDED here a year and a half ago.

Why don't you stop acting like you suddenly found religion on the subject. At least PUMAs like Lakrosse are consistent.

by DTOzone 2009-09-27 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: oh I'm aware

really? show me where I defended Daniel Kurtzer or Robert Wexler? Stop making stuff up when you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

by tarheel74 2009-09-27 10:04AM | 0 recs
Re: oh I'm aware

Dennis Ross is certainly a disappointment as part of an administration that wants to change the Middle East and bring peace to the Israelis and Palestinians. My last information on him was that he was still trying to blame Arafat for the 2000 Camp David fiasco, when the Israel PM, Ehud Barak, came to Washington knowing, fully knowing, that he could never sign a deal that gave the Palestinians an independent state. No one in the Knesset, not even among members of the so-called left wing Labor party, would have voted to remove a single settlement. Without removal, there is just no place for a sovereign, contiguous Palestinian state.

Dennis Ross is a dog, only one rung below Clinton for his deceptive role in those negotiations.

by MainStreet 2009-09-27 11:34AM | 0 recs
when you defended

Hillary Clinton's foreign policy last year, you were defending them.

by DTOzone 2009-09-29 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: I respect your diaries

It was Obama, in Cairo last January, who made a sovereign Palestinian state the linchpin of our new Middle East foreign policy, one which turned the previous right wing Neocon antiArab Islamophobic policy on its head.

I don't see Obama backing off this goal so that expectations are high. However, given past experience, lowered expectations might be more realistic, and relying on Obama alone a poor strategy.

The boycott movement is accelerating.

by MainStreet 2009-09-27 03:31AM | 0 recs
Re: I respect your diaries

Remember W also proposed this two state solution. In any case, a state can exist only when it has land, when the Israelis are building settlements flouting every international law while the US government looks the other way, I remain pessimistic of the long-term outlook. If the boycott movement is gaining traction, it is in Europe. I doubt it will gain any support in the US except among the left, also don't look for any government sanctions, even in the face of Gaza atrocities. Ain't gonna happen.

by tarheel74 2009-09-27 07:30AM | 0 recs
Re: I respect your diaries

There is every reason to be pessimistic, given Obama's come down at the UN. If this is a strategy, it's nature has certainly got a lot of people fooled. Obama right now just seems to be another wing and nod president who will continue in the tradition of Clinton and Bush II: make a last minute effort that will predictably fail.

There is no expectation that Obama will act as Reagan and Bush I did to censure Israel when it acted contrary to American requests and our foreign policy needs. Right now, we are engaging in a foreign policy in the Middle East that is contrary to our best interests, all for the sake of Israel. We are still underestimating AIPAC.

by MainStreet 2009-09-27 11:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

Haaretz editorial (none / 0)

I agree with the interpretation below and think it represents something significantly different from "the same old bullshit."

It is regrettable that so much time was wasted on the effort to create an equation under which settlement activity would be frozen in exchange for a thaw in Arab states' relations with Israel. Foot-dragging in the political process plays into the hands of the region's extremists. America's failure to restart the Israeli-Palestinian dialogue strengthens doubts about diplomacy's utility and boosts the temptation to replace it with violence. Though he did so belatedly, Obama was wise to drop his preoccupation with settlements and El Al flights over Saudi Arabia - what are known as confidence-building steps - and instead launch an effort to get negotiations going on a final-status agreement.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1116 659.html

It's imperative to remove all obstacles and get both parties into a room with Mitchell ASAP at this point.  The Netanyahu camp is banking on being able to use construction to provoke Abbas to hold out for a freeze, thus avoiding talks.  I think this indicates a recognition on Bibi's part that once he enters that room, his ability to obfuscate and avoid progress toward a final status will be compromised.  I hope Abbas reads this the same way.  

The other thing that needs to happen is for Obama to speak directly to Israelis in Jerusalem.  It should have happened months ago.  Everyone Jewish and Israeli supporter of the peace process I know is similarly perplexed.

The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 09:53:53 AM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

   Re: Haaretz editorial (none / 0)

   Who could not agree with the last paragraph.

   As for the first, Netanyahu already has a long list of red herrings, excuses to stall any future talks, until the Palestinians comply. Who doesn't know what they are?

   The message to be read: stall and stall, build and build. Obama is just a temporary road block, just as Oslo was a temporary impediment in the 90s, which ended with the phony 'generous offer' and Sharon's provocations to end it all by starting the second Intifada.

   People are not stupid, and they, like the Palestinians, will play along for a time. But the Palestinians have had it. No more, no more. Shit or get off the pot, and this time it applies to Obama. What's the point? Didn't Clinton and Bush go down the same road?

   by MainStreet on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 02:17:38 PM EST
    [ Parent | Reply to This | ]

       Re: Haaretz editorial (none / 0)

       This is just flat out wrong.  Obama is now doing what he should have since the beginning.   He is invalidating any and all excuses not to proceed to US directed final status talks that take a full and valid two state solution as their goal.  That is radically different from Bush.  Not sure why you keep bringing Bibi's stalling tactics up as proof that Obama is the same old crap when Obama is trying to push him to the table.

       Look, MS, you can argue that blue is red as much as you want.  But it's not.  No one can prove to you that blue is not red if you are committed to ignoring the difference.

       I'm sure you will respond with another robo-post that protests things I also oppose as if I support them.

       The difference between us at this point appears to be that I support Obama's efforts to invalidate all obstacles to final status negotiations and force the parties to the table while you do not.  It's not clear to me why you don't.

       The future is unwritten
        by Strummerson on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 04:02:22 PM EST
        [ Parent | Reply to This ]

           Re: Haaretz editorial (none / 0)

           So Obama is doing something different than Clinton and Bush, is he? Nine months later, and Netanyahu has deflected every attempt to stop the colonization and get to the table. In fact, Bibi is saying to everyone: even if we go to the table, the settlements will continue and be expanded.

           Latest from the International Solidarity Movement: IDF forces are scheduled to demolish 55 Palestinian homes in order to expand an Israeli settlement near Nablus. Find the link yourself. Personally tired the same old. Palestinians must stop the terrorism.

           Obama is now licking Bibi's boots. Hard to believe but it has been seen before. What we need today is another Ike or a Bush I.

           by MainStreet on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 06:09:33 PM EST
            [ Parent | Reply to This | ]

               Re: Haaretz editorial (none / 0)

                   

So Obama is doing something different than Clinton and Bush, is he?

               Yes.  He is.

                   

Nine months later, and Netanyahu has deflected every attempt to stop the colonization and get to the table.

               Yes.  Bibi is Bibi.  How does this prove that Obama is Bush?

                   

In fact, Bibi is saying to everyone: even if we go to the table, the settlements will continue and be expanded.

               Uh huh.  And he is making such pronouncements to prolong Abbas's refusal, because he knows that things will be much more difficult for him if they do negotiate with Mitchell as mediator.  His whole game is to make it seem like the Palestinians are the ones refusing to move forward.  Abbas is currently playing into Bibi's hands.  He is right morally and wrong tactically.

               But none of this demonstrates a similarity between Obama's and Bush's approaches.

                   

Latest from the International Solidarity Movement: IDF forces are scheduled to demolish 55 Palestinian homes in order to expand an Israeli settlement near Nablus.

               This is terrible.  but what does this have to do with Obama being Bush or Clinton?  All it demonstrates is that Bibi is Bibi.  And we know Bibi is an awful person.

                   

Find the link yourself.

               Thanks for the courtesy.  Don't need to.  This is a believable claim for which I do not require any fact checking.  Maybe there is an ambiguity about the numbers or specifics.  But we all know Bibi's game.  

               Yet how does this prove a similarity between Obama and Bush?

                   

Personally tired the same old. Palestinians must stop the terrorism.

               Hmm.  Let's look at context for a second.  I know it's hard to interrupt the pleasures of a tantrum.  You should try reasoning with my kids when the have committed to screaming irrationally.  But here's the deal, Obama knows as well as we do that the PA under Abbas and Fayyed have shut down all forms of violent resistance in the West Bank.  Obama utters this because he has to appear even handed in order to push things forward, even when the playing field is far from even.  

               I do not know why you refuse to look beyond his appropriate lip service to Israeli "concerns" and read it in context.  

               And yes, Bush and Clinton made similar statements.  Often during periods of genuine violent Palestinian actions (and I am not making any claim here regarding their validity or otherwise, just the fact of those operations).  By the way, Obama also frequently uses terms like "liberty" and "freedom" and appeals to the "middle class" just like his predecessors.

                   

Obama is now licking Bibi's boots. Hard to believe but it has been seen before.

               Nope.  You are wrong.  Obama is trying to force Bibi to the table.  He made a tactical error earlier on by suggesting the validity of any pre-conditions to negotiating.  He is now correcting that path.  Clinton let Israel avoid final status talks during his first term and only pressed for them in the final months of his administration.  Bush didn't even try to push for progress until the end of his regime.  Obama is pushing for directed final status talks, front and center on the international stage, in the first year of his first term.  This makes his stance quite different from both WJC and W.

                   

What we need today is another Ike or a Bush I.

               Bush I forced Shamir to the table against his will.  Now Obama is indeed twisting another Likud PM's arm to force him to the table.  Bibi is slipperier than Shamir, so it's more difficult.

               But if you find pissing and moaning and making unsupportable arguments, I hope you glean some pleasure from doing so.  You have made no argument to support your claim that Obama is identical to his immediate predecessors.  I have offered an actual argument highlighting differences of strategy and context.  Bibi being the same as...well...Bibi does not demonstrate a similarity between Obama and anyone else.  I recommend eating some fish.  It promotes the capacity for logical thinking.

               The future is unwritten
                by Strummerson on Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 06:49:02 PM EST
                [ Parent | Reply to This ]

Asked and answered.

by Strummerson 2009-09-27 02:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

See below where I was largely commenting on your comment.

by MainStreet 2009-09-27 04:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Left wing views: Bibi chumped Obama

The Palestinian memory is long. Look at all previous attempts to negotiate a peace: never (except for few months during the Rabin administration) did Israel stop its occupation or fail to continue colonizing Palestinian lands, while proporting to talk about peace.

One doesn't have to go back far. Kadima, the Olmert-Livni-Barak group ran in the last election as the peace party. But what did Kadima do when it was in charge during the previous Olmert administration? 'Tea with Olmert' was the essence of his peace negotiations with Abbas, and while they talked, the colonialism continued unabated, as it does today.

So give the Palestinians some credit for not wanting to be dupped again into phony peace negotiations that go nowhere, while their lands continue to be chipped away at, homes bulldozed, and people killed.

It is now evident that Obama will not be able to deliver until Natanyahu is moved aside. Even then Israel has become so right wing that it may just not matter.

The Palestinians need to declare an independent state and that state must be recognized by the UN, the US aside.

Enough is enough is my view of the suffering Palestinian mind today. Hence their stance on settlements.

by MainStreet 2009-09-27 04:01AM | 0 recs
Re: The BDS Movement is another path.

Here is the latest action:

Spain excludes settlement university from academic competition

Global BDS Movement

20 September 2009

The "University Center of Ariel in Samaria" (AUCS) has been excluded from a prestigious university competition about sustainable architecture in Spain. With this move, Spain joins the growing number of European governments taking effective, even though preliminary, steps to uphold international law by boycotting or divesting from institutions and corporations involved in or profiting from Israel's illegal Wall and colonial settlements built on occupied Palestinian land..

"Ariel University Centre of Samaria" was one out of 21 teams selected last April to compete for the Solar Decathlon-Madrid 2010, the most prestigious competition for sustainable architecture in the world, organized by the Spanish Ministry of Housing together with the Universidad Politécnica de Madrid.

http://palsolidarity.org/2009/09/8488

Why waste time. Efforts such as this one must continue until Israel recognizes that the world will not tolerate Apartheid, colonialism, and the incessant military occupation that enforces it.

by MainStreet 2009-09-27 04:37AM | 0 recs
one of the reasons Bibi was elected

was he had spread the fear around Israel that Obama would be too pro-Palestinian and you need to elect him because he won't let Obama tell him what to do.

by DTOzone 2009-09-27 09:46AM | 0 recs
Bibi was awesome

he simply knows that when people say they're gonna exterminate the Jews, after the Holocaust, such threat shalt not be taken lightly.

by Lakrosse 2009-09-27 10:30PM | 0 recs

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