We're not all maniacs

by mageduley, Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 09:48:01 PM EST

this from sullivan's blog:

The Unemotional Case For Obama

08 Feb 2008 04:01 pm

A meme is developing is that support for Obama is all emotion, fantasy, hysteria, etc. There's no question that the emotions behind Obama are powerful. And any fool can see why. His oratory does what oratory should. He is the greatest public speaker in American in a long time. And the shame and demoralization of the Bush-Cheney years - when we launched a war with reckless indifference to planning it, when we tortured prisoners and
called it "enhanced interrogation", when we saw a government rendered so utterly useless that a hurricane made the US look like the third world, when conservatives added $32 trillion to the debt of the next generation, when a president made sophomoric jokes about not finding weapons of mass destruction he leveraged American global credibility on ... if you don't feel emotions in wanting to put this disgrace of an
administration behind us, then you are not being rational.

But the strongest case for Obama is not emotional; it is as coolly rational as he is. I tried to express it in my "Goodbye To All That" essay. On the most critical issues we face - Iraq, the war against Jihadism, healthcare, and the economy - he makes more sense as a president than Clinton. And when you watch the knee-jerk opposition to him, I think it is actually more emotional and less rational than the support for him. Fear is more emotional than hope.

And defending Clinton on the grounds of "experience" and "substance" is a fairy tale on both counts, if you pardon the expression. Her legislative experience is one term longer than Obama's (and that's if you don't count Obama's state legislative record), is notable mainly for its uninspired diligence in constituency work, and on the most important issue of the day, Iraq, simply wrong. Her main executive branch experience was destroying a historic opportunity for healthcare reform through arrogance, secrecy and over-reach. Her "substance" claim is just as phony. There is no detail in her policy apparatus that isn't matched by Obama's. But you've heard a lot from me on this. Here's a video that shows a conservative cynic being slowly and rationally disarmed by the logic of young, shrewd voter.

A vote for Obama is a vote for reason over sentiment. Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kica8hmSd AM

Tags: cult, Healthcare, obama (all tags)

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Re: We're not all maniacs

Wait...this still doesn't present policy arguments. It may be rationally written, but it's a slight of hand trick.

by ejintx 2008-02-09 06:21AM | 0 recs

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Re: We're not all maniacs

Answers to your policy questions. Our country has complex problems that require complex solutions. If Hillary is trying to convince you that she has a better policy stance by explaining them in 30 second sound bytes. Then it is her supporters that are being duped.

Obama however has very detailed policy plans that takes into account the enormity of the problems we face.

Please check out the policy. If you believe that you should not have to do the research into a candidate, that you believe the answers to all of our problems can be detailed in 30 second sound bytes, then you are seriously underestimating the intelligence of the electorate. There is no way he could detail all of this on the campaign trail. But it is easily and prominently listed on his website.

Here is his plan for America
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlue printForChange.pdf

by mageduley 2008-02-09 08:31AM | 0 recs

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Re: We're not all maniacs

That's not my point; I know his policies are virtually identical to Clinton's or Edward's. He supports single-payer health care, he opposes a continued presence in Iraq, etc. I know for God's sake.

My point is that this entry was about presenting rational reasons to support Obama but only argues that Obama has better points than Clinton; whoops, they're virtually identical which is something the YouTube clip demonstrates. No argument successfully made.

Another example:

"Hillary likes to tout her Experience. What she actually means by that, I surely don't know. But beyond experience, we need a visionary to look at our worlds problems as a whole."

Slight of hand, you changed the argument. That's a logical fallacy; you're not actually saying anything about Clinton verses Obama.

Fact of the matter for me, Clinton's views on social issues are closer to mine - let the state's worry about gay marriage, etc. Obama fumbles all over why he basically supports gay marriage in all but name; God knows why.

Obama comes off as ungodly arrogant and an upstart in a system that will not respond well to that. He'll sacrifice the party for his own success. Proof? He's the only Democratic candidate who did not say he'd support the eventual nominee.

by ejintx 2008-02-09 09:38AM | 0 recs

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Andrew Sullivan is a conservative

Why Obama supporters like to brag about his backing for Obama is beyond me. He is not a friend to the Democratic Party or the progressive movement.

by desmoinesdem 2008-02-09 07:21AM | 0 recs

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Re: We're not all maniacs

Hillary likes to tout her Experience. What she actually means by that, I surely don't know. But beyond experience, we need a visionary to look at our worlds problems as a whole.

Barack Obama wrote a wonderful article published in Foreign Affairs magazine in July. It is definately worth a look to see how he would lead America and represent our standing in the world.
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070701fa essay86401/barack-obama/renewing-america n-leadership.html

by mageduley 2008-02-09 08:43AM | 0 recs

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Re: We're not all maniacs

RESTORING AMERICA'S TRUST

Confronted by Hitler, Roosevelt said that our power would be "directed toward ultimate good as well as against immediate evil. We Americans are not destroyers; we are builders." It is time for a president who can build consensus here at home for an equally ambitious course.

Ultimately, no foreign policy can succeed unless the American people understand it and feel they have a stake in its success -- unless they trust that their government hears their concerns as well. We will not be able to increase foreign aid if we fail to invest in security and opportunity for our own people. We cannot negotiate trade agreements to help spur development in poor countries so long as we provide no meaningful help to working Americans burdened by the dislocations of a global economy. We cannot reduce our dependence on foreign oil or defeat global warming unless Americans are willing to innovate and conserve. We cannot expect Americans to support placing our men and women in harm's way if we cannot show that we will use force wisely and judiciously. But if the next president can restore the American people's trust -- if they know that he or she is acting with their best interests at heart, with prudence and wisdom and some measure of humility -- then I believe the American people will be eager to see America lead again.

I believe they will also agree that it is time for a new generation to tell the next great American story. If we act with boldness and foresight, we will be able to tell our grandchildren that this was the time when we helped forge peace in the Middle East. This was the time we confronted climate change and secured the weapons that could destroy the human race. This was the time we defeated global terrorists and brought opportunity to forgotten corners of the world. And this was the time when we renewed the America that has led generations of weary travelers from all over the world to find opportunity and liberty and hope on our doorstep.

It was not all that long ago that farmers in Venezuela and Indonesia welcomed American doctors to their villages and hung pictures of JFK on their living room walls, when millions, like my father, waited every day for a letter in the mail that would grant them the privilege to come to America to study, work, live, or just be free.

We can be this America again. This is our moment to renew the trust and faith of our people -- and all people -- in an America that battles immediate evils, promotes an ultimate good, and leads the world once more.

- Barack Obama

by mageduley 2008-02-09 08:51AM | 0 recs