Hillary's Fear Factor

Andrew Sullivan nicely sums up the generational differences between the older and younger Democrats and why Hillary carries the Zeitgeist of the past:

"One difference between Obama and Clinton does not seem to me to have been stressed enough. They are of different Democratic generations. Clinton is from the traumatized generation; Obama isn't. Clinton has internalized to her bones the 1990s sense that conservatism is ascendant, that what she really believes is unpopular, that the Republicans have structural, latent power of having a majority of Americans on their side. Hence the fact that she reeks of fear, of calculation, of focus groups, of triangulation. She might once have had ideals keenly felt; she might once have actually relished fighting for them and arguing in thier defense. But she has not been like that for a very long time. She has political post-traumatic stress disorder. She saw her view of feminism gutted in the 1992 campaign; she saw her healthcare plan destroyed by what she saw as a VRWC; she remains among the most risk-averse of Democrats on foreign policy and in the culture wars. Here's a simple current example: her position on needle exchanges to reduce HIV transmission among IV drug users. Ben Smith recounts the tale here. The last Clinton administration refused to prevent HIV transmission this way, regardless of the science and epidemiology, because they were terrified of being labeled "liberal" by the GOP machine. Clinton still hasn't out-grown that (which is why I confidently predict that if she becomes president, progress toward gay equality will slow, because a leading Democrat will impede it in a long slog of triangulation and risk-aversion). Her classic formulation today is what it was before:

"We'll have as much spine as we possibly can, under the circumstances."
Obama is different. He wasn't mugged by the 1980s and 1990s as Clinton was. He doesn't carry within him the liberal self-hatred and self-doubt that Clinton does. The traumatized Democrats fear the majority of Americans are bigoted, know-nothing, racist rubes from whom they need to conceal their true feelings and views. The non-traumatized Democrats are able to say what they think, make their case to potential supporters and act, well, like Republicans acted in the 1980s and 1990s. The choice between Clinton and Obama is the choice between a defensive crouch and a confident engagement. It is the choice between someone who lost their beliefs in a welter of fear; and someone who has faith that his worldview can persuade a majority.

In my view, the call is not a close one."

We are no longer the movement that dare not speak its name.  By a recent poll posted on the main site, "progressive" is now the most liked term by the American public.  The siege mentality that forged the New Democratic/DLC coalition, from which Bill Clinton sprang, is over - of the past.  Old devices for electoral success like hawkishness in foreign policy, split-the-baby moderation on social issues, and fiscal conservatism are not the future of the Democratic Party.  Whether Obama is the face of a new and self-confident Left is a question that will be answered by posterity.  But, history has already spoken on Hillary.  She is a relic of fear in what should be an era of Democratic optimism and boldness.  I hope the 60% of the Democratic Party that has yet to support her will realize the opportunity we have and leave fear in the past.

Tags: 2008, Andrew Sullivan, Democrats, electibility, Hillary Clinton, Presidential elections (all tags)

Comments

26 Comments

Re: Hillary's Fear Factor

I've heard this explained Obama was not raised in the 'cutlure wars' while Hillary was on the front lines... those are not my generations battles - and I hate to refight them.

by CardBoard 2007-07-31 10:13AM | 0 recs
He is waaay off Base

If he was right we wouldn't have a need for 'Media Matters.'  Limpaugh and Coulter wouldn't sell a ton of books and get mainstream media gigs.  Heck, if he was right we would have passed legislation mandating a timeline for withdrawl from Iraq.

The Republicans are damaged at this point but not beaten or broken.  We can't turn our backs on them yet or they will stick a knife in us for sure.

That is why I think Obama and many of his supporters are naive.   We can't just all get along.  It takes two to compromise and the Republicans are going to do it.

by dpANDREWS 2007-07-31 10:23AM | 0 recs
Republicans are not ...

Not going to compromise.  Ain't gonna happen.

by dpANDREWS 2007-07-31 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: He is waaay off Base

That sounds like fear to me.  I think Democrats whould focus on what they want to do instead of the response Republicans will have to their ideas.  Focusing on the former will give the public something to respect; focusing on the latter will strike the American public as opportunistic and weak.

Who cares about Coulter and Limbaugh?  You give them too much control over the Democratic Party and the progressive movement.  Make your case before the people and let the right-wing nutjobs sya what they like.  They will anyway.  I'm tired of changing our message out of fear of them.  And I'm tired of Hillary blaming them for her lack of vision and boldness.

by Lassallean 2007-07-31 11:12AM | 0 recs
AMEN...

who fucking cares about that "Faux News" crew.  They are NOTHING.  And do you think ppl that listen to Coulter or Limbaugh would ever vote for any Democrat?  You are absolutely, right, Lassallean.

by icebergslim 2007-07-31 11:36AM | 0 recs
Sounds like REALITY

There is a whole section of the Republican party, from the activists, to their leaders, to the wingnuts on tv, radio, and in print that give voice to their message, to their lawmakers in Congress who think totally different than you and I.  They have real power in that party.  They are its foot soldiers.  They will not compromise.

Take just one issue.  Abortion.  

There is a large swath of the GOP that says it is murder and if you vote to keep it legal and safe you are a murderer.  They won't vote for a Democrat because in their twisted eyes that is a vote for murder.

How do you compromise with such people?

How do you compromise with the types in the room at the first GOP debate in Charleston?  When McCain gave a personal and passionate explanation of why torture was wrong he got a polite round of applause.  When Romney followed and basically said he was all for torture and basically would like to see more of it, he brought the house down.

How do you compromise with people that call Al Gore a homosexual?  Make light of Obama's middle name Hussien?  Who call Hillary Clinton a marxist?

So the for all of you who prattle on about fear and hope, sleep tight.  Rest assured that there are some others in the Democratic Party willing to take the fight to the Republicans and prevent another 8 years of a neo-conservative, right wing Presidency.   Nighty night.

by dpANDREWS 2007-07-31 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Sounds like REALITY

u trippin.  We need to worry about our own SHIT, don't worry about the Republicans, they will be TAKEN OUT in 2008.

by icebergslim 2007-07-31 03:37PM | 0 recs
"u trippin"

Are you serious?  That is an intellegent reply my your estimation?  

Are you even old enough to vote?

by dpANDREWS 2007-07-31 03:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Sounds like REALITY

If thats the case why do many argue that the repubs will beat Hillary so we shouldn't nominate her even if she is our strongest candidate , it seems contradictory to me.

by lori 2007-07-31 03:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Sounds like REALITY

u guys, i am out, not arguing with you tonight.  i am going to YKos, and let me know if you want me to take some pix of Hillary for you.  peace out.

by icebergslim 2007-07-31 03:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Sounds like REALITY

Here's a reply:

We won in 2006 because we mobilized our base and independent voters sided with the Democrats in large numbers.  

Republican "foot soldiers" reliably turn out their base, which is about 1/3 of the country. Probably less.  That is the only thing Limbaugh and Coulter and the wingnut propaganda mill is good at - getting their own base to the polls.  And guess what?  They don't want to show up in 2008.  The only person that will be sure to get the Republican base energized and to the polls is Hillary Clinton.  

I don't fear the "foot soldiers" or the right wing machine.  They get their base to the polls.  So what?  I want to get the Democratic base to the polls - and they aren't motivated by Democratic centrism a la Hillary Clinton.

The election will be decided by the independent vote.  "Independent" does not necessarily mean "moderate."  That is the great mistake the Democrats have made.  New polling by the Pew Research Center shows that independents are hungry for the PROGRESSIVE agenda - protectionist trade, economic reorganization through fair taxation, universal health care and better funded education.  More people now think that the government should aid the poor and middle class than at any time since the New Deal.  Independents are with the Progressive movement, and you are worried about nominating someone that won't be attacked by the right?  Hillary Clinton is exactly the kind of Democrat that could have succeeded in the 80s, but she is exactly the kind of Democrat who will be defeated in 2008.

Abandon the centrist course.  The way to a Democratic landlide in 2008 is to run a progressive campaign of economic populism.  

by Lassallean 2007-08-01 06:52AM | 0 recs
Edwards as the reformed Clinton?
I'd be curious where Edwards fits into this schema.  Edwards (1953) is a full seven/eight years older than Obama (1961), also had connections to the DLC during his time in the Senate, and entered Congress in 1998 in time for the Clinton impeachment, and yet I think he also epitomizes this newly confident, more forthright left.  He certainly seems to me to have better recognized the new climate than Hillary Clinton has.
This is a debate about who to offer the next eight years of the Democratic party.  I'd prefer a little more boldness than Clinton seems to offer.
by psericks 2007-07-31 10:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards as the reformed Clinton?

I think Edwards has left the Clintonite/DLC fold, and he has became a progressive champion.  If we elect him, let's be sure to hold him to his words.

I'm supporting Edwards.

by Lassallean 2007-07-31 11:13AM | 0 recs
Edwards is his own man!

Unfortunately, because of his relative youth and inxperience in elected office, he was susceptible to the old guard, specifically Bob Shrum.  To borrow from Gore, who I think is a great nexus between the current and future generations of the Party, Edwards is his own man NOW.  He's not my first choice, but I do credit him for fighting on his own terms--win or lose.  I think he now embodies the motto this Party is supposed to stand for, "if we can't stand by our principles, then we don't deserve for the country to stand with us."  I would love an Obama/Edwards ticket but I certainly wouldn't be mad at an Edwards/Obama ticket.

by Dee 2007-07-31 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary's Fear Factor

I agree, pretty much here.  There is a definite SPLIT in the Democratic Party.  It is not showing up in the polling, but it just may show up AT the polls.  It is generational.

The DLC mind of thinking is history.  Can it come back?  Maybe.  But right now no one want more of the same.  And that is what Clinton represents to many.

There is excitement about Barack Obama, it is infectious.  Yes, on this board everyone tries to tear each other down, but this is undeniable about him.  This man is outraising everyone on both sides, but he should be history per the polling.  What does that mean?  For me, that maybe, just maybe, this polling is not picking up everything and that there is more going on out there than the eye can see.  

Just like when Terry McAuiffe was on Hardball, stating when Clinton wins the nomination she will get Obama's supporters, the NEW ONES to vote for her.  Hold up, not so fast.  Not exactly.  If Obama is not on the ticket, you think people will be excited about Clinton?  Not so fast.  And we are talking about the very folk she need that are supporting him, indies, moderates, young, republicans.  That broad brushstroke, she has not been able to capture alone.

And how do we know that he is generating new folk to our party?  Look at his volunteer base.  He has so many people just "showing up" it is unbelieveable, and this is happening at EVERY OFFICE he has open.  And downtown Chicago, they had to hire security to state, we have enough folks for now.  And had to open a SECOND office just for training.  Now, who else out there is doing this?

Yes, this race is going to be very interesting, indeed.

by icebergslim 2007-07-31 10:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary's Fear Factor

I've always been curious exactly how inaccurate polling is based on demographics. I know that it is impossible to poll cellphones which are becoming the primary telephone for younger people (maybe below 25??) Any ideas out there in the blogosphere about this issue?

by leewesley 2007-07-31 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary's Fear Factor

Can it come back?  As Representative Clyburgh just stated in an on-camera interview with the Washington Post, if the Iraq report in September shows tangible success of the surge, it's a whole new ball game.  Let's not pussy foot around this...it will be a test to see what Demcoratic candidates remain true to their principles that no amount of improvement in Iraq justifies a continuation of an unjust war and what candidates trip over themselves running back to the Center because they don't want to be accused of undermining our potential for success in Iraq.

by Dee 2007-07-31 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary's Fear Factor

Are you kidding me?  Success, what success?  The people there only get 1 hr of electricity a day, if any; the dead bodies are so high that they can not even bury them fast enough; the military is letting ANYONE in because of lack of people; the middle management/officers are running away from the military so fast, unbelievable; they are sending all new bodies, recruits over to Iraq so fast, practically no training; and did they ever get the equipment right?; oh, and the parliment is on a month vacation...and this list is endless.  WIN.  Win what?  What is the fucking mission?  Because it has changed so much, nobody can remember.

If these politicians want to fuck around with this, go ahead.  There are no options over there.  These insurgents leave Baghdad and cause havoc and DEATHS, elsewhere.  This is a joke, and not worth even discussing.

Out of Iraq, PERIOD.

by icebergslim 2007-07-31 02:16PM | 0 recs
Do You Mean The Sullivan Who...?

Do you mean the Sullivan who endorsed Bush in 2000?

That Sullivan?

Do you mean the Sullivan who referred to Iraq as a "noble war" as well as "I never thought WMD was central to Bush's argument for invading Iraq"?

That Sullivan?

Do you mean the Sullivan who, despite never letting us forget his upcoming gay marriage, also stated that, if he were in the British Parliment, he would vote to allow discrimination against gay couples adopting on the basis of religious beliefs?

That Sullivan?

Well, THAT Sullivan is the same guy who, while bouncing about his chair on natioinal TV, screamed that Clinton gave him "cooties".

His argument is not convincing precisely because he lacks credibility when it comes to Clinton.

That's what happens to credibility when you concede that you "just can't stand her" on national TV.

If it were anybody else, he would be all a-twitter and making his "Conservative of Doubt" argument on her behalf. But, she's Clinton and, as a result, we get a truckload of Sullivan's psycho-babble.

Further, his opinions as to her "ambition" and "fathomless narcissism" reeks of misogyny.

Sullivan, despite his academic credentials, knows as little about what goes on in someone elses head as he did about the meaning of the words "musroom cloud".

Clinton, along with every candidate should be challenged on substance. As for the psychoanalysis, Sullivan has especially proved himself to be unfit for the job.

by BigBoyBlue 2007-07-31 11:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Do You Mean The Sullivan Who...?

You are entitled to disagree with Andrew Sullivan on a whole host of issues.  Hell, I encourage disagreement with Andrew Sullivan.  He is a libertarian who talks about the "evils" of socialized medicine everyday.

BUT, he is worthy of respect.  He is a serious academic and a fair commentator.

Furthermore, what rings of TRUTH doesn't depend on who the speaker is.  It is a great tactic of both the Clintons and the Bushes to attack the messenger instead of the message.

I wouldn't care who wrote this piece - Republican, Democrat, lefty or wingnut.  It makes an observation about Clinton and the generational schism within the Democractic Party, which observation strikes me as true.  I disagree with Sullivan often, but he is spot-on here, IMO.

by Lassallean 2007-07-31 11:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary's Fear Factor

You are entitled to disagree with Andrew Sullivan on a whole host of issues.  Hell, I encourage disagreement with Andrew Sullivan.  He is a libertarian who talks about the "evils" of socialized medicine everyday.

BUT, he is worthy of respect.  He is a serious academic and a fair commentator.

Furthermore, what rings of TRUTH doesn't depend on who the speak is.  It is a great tactic of both the Clintons and the Bushes to attack the messenger instead of the message.

I wouldn't care who wrote this piece - Republican, Democrat, lefty or wingnut.  It makes an observation about Clinton and the generational schism within the Democractic Party, which observation strikes me as true.  I disagree with Sullivan often, but he is spot-on here, IMO.

by Lassallean 2007-07-31 11:33AM | 0 recs
Excellent diary

I think you may have put your finger on why the blogsphere acts as it does too.

It is all about fear.  People here see the GOP as the abuser that traumatized them for years.  The only way we think we can beat them is to become them to a certain level.

I reject that kind of thinking. We can beat them by becoming the best version of ourselves.  

by AdamSmithsHand 2007-07-31 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Excellent diary

Here, here.  No more fear.  Self-confidence.  Boldness.  Vision.  But no fear.

by Lassallean 2007-07-31 11:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Excellent diary

damn strait.

by leewesley 2007-07-31 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Go Hillary

just curious, why wouldn't Hillary pick Obama? just because of policy? My thoughts were that if Hillary wins she should pick Obama, Vilsack or Clark. If Obama wins he should definately pick Clark. If Edwards wins he should pick Obama or Clark. Obviously I think Clark is a good VP this cycle. Any thoughts?

by leewesley 2007-07-31 12:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary's Fear Factor

Eh, I just responded to this on tapped.  Here's what I think: I think this is only half of the picture. Hillary's ideas are actually quite good, but she doesn't talk about them enough. It's confounding. Her SCHIP proposal got the ball rolling for the current expansion, though her plan is by far the best out there. Bush is actually bringing on the ideological debate and LOSING! Even though he is absolutely right in the sense that this is a huge step towards federally funded health care, she's winning because people are more interested in making sure poor kids(even though expansion plans particularly hers would make eligible many or even most US young people under 25)have access to a doctor than they are in Bush's ideological argument that government financed health care is bad. And, yet, not even a chirp from her. It's as though she is afraid to take credit for her progressivism. I don't need to turn the page on Hillary. In many ways, it is as though the rest of the ocuntry finally caught up with her. But she should be taking credit for her own ideas, particularly when she is winning the argument.

by bookgrl 2007-07-31 01:21PM | 0 recs

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