John Edwards Owes Chairman Dean an Apology

by Lakid1995, Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 07:50:45 AM EDT

Well I am glad Senator Edwards is starting to figure out how this netroots thingy really works. I met with a colleague of mine this weekend, who was one of the more integral members of the Dean's online team in Burlington. He was effusive in his praise of Edward's speech at the Take Bake America Conference last week. He told me that he thought Edward's had it figured out.

I am not so sure. I am not sure at all, when I read nonsense like this in today's Washington Post .

More after the jump ...

You see Governor Howard Dean is once again is taking in lot of nonsense from the arrogant, lazy bastards in the DC-centric MSM, who are always all too eager to spit out Ken ("I am 38, and yet still single") Mehlman's talking points. These losers who still don' t have the balls to call out Bush and his cronies for their pack of lies costing almost 1,700 lives of our boys and girls, holed up in the hell hole of a green zone in Iraq, never waste a second to get on Dean, who has been proven right about everything about this bloody. So, last week these pack of wolves didn't waste a second to jump on Dean, when he rightly mentioned how lot of these GOP leaders "have never made an honest living in their lives." What is so wrong about that statement (just look up the bios. of the shrub and DeLay). Anyways, here is Johnny Sunshine, who supposedly has the netroots all figured out, came into defense of Chairman Dean:

Edwards, the party's vice presidential nominee last year, said at an annual party fundraising dinner Saturday in Nashville that he disagreed with Dean's comment. "The chairman of the DNC is not the spokesman for the party," Edwards said, according to the Associated Press. "He's a voice. I don't agree with it."

Aaaha. So that's how it is. Talk about kissing up to netroots one side of the mouth, treating some kid bloggers over some fancy meal, but when the time comes to stand up for the most tenacious Democratic leader, who has been most loyal to the netroots, you sell him out. You sell out the Leader, whiffing on a softball tossed up by former Clintonite Georgie S, while Dean was out help building the party up in Montana .

Edwards owes Dean an apology. I got news for him. Dean is my voice. He is your voice. He is the only one speaking our voice to the national media. He was there in 2003 when no one had the balls to express our boiled over frustrations over Iraq, while Johnny sunshine was hiding behind the opinion polls casting his voter for this ill-fate war.

Edwards need to apologize for his vote on the Iraq War.

And, Edwards need to apologize for his incompetent defense of Howard Dean. Right now to me ... he is still the same joke, who got his ass kicked all over that debate panel by Dick Chaney.

Out.

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HEAR HEAR

It was just stupid and cowardly

by Parker 2005-06-06 07:59AM | 0 recs

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Re: It is simply unbelievable to me ...

that Edwards still hasn't figured out why we all loved Dean so much. It's the TRUTH STUPID. Just speak the f*cking truth, and stick up for someone in your own team, who speaks it.

by Lakid1995 2005-06-06 08:02AM | 0 recs

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Should have included Biden in the title too ...

But then again I have never cared for that plagarizer. What is hurtful about Edwards is this guy has so much promise. He has all the extrinsic qualities, which can potentially make him a great candidate. But for some reason, he is so timid and gunshy when opportunity arrives for him to do something special. He missed a chance.

by Lakid1995 2005-06-06 08:23AM | 0 recs

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Re: Should have included MBNA Biden

Biden has already sold out to the credit card companies. Which corporate scumbag will he sell the party out to if he gets the nomination?

Biden is finished as a Democratic nominee. Edwards is not far behind him.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 10:32AM | 0 recs

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Edwards doesn't owe Dean a damn thing.

Edwards doesn't owe Dean an apology for having the audacity to disagree with him.

What sort of lunatic would expect an apology for that?

by Drew 2005-06-06 08:24AM | 0 recs

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Re: Edwards doesn't owe Dean a damn thing.

The same "lunatics," who got called "lunatics," for opposing the Iraq War?

by Lakid1995 2005-06-06 08:29AM | 0 recs

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No.

The sort of lunatic who believes dissent is treason. Like you, apparently.

Edwards does not owe Dean an apology because he disagreed with him. That such a statement is even controversial should serve as an indictment of the mindset of some of his supporters.

by Drew 2005-06-06 08:38AM | 0 recs

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Re: No.

Uhhh ... look who trots out the code words "treason." By the way did you read my entire post. So you don't think Edward's should not say he is sorry for his chickenshit stance on the war in Iraq?

by Lakid1995 2005-06-06 08:40AM | 0 recs

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Yes, look at you.

I read the diary, and as I said, Edwards doesn't owe Dean a damn thing. His position on Iraq doesn't change that.

by Drew 2005-06-06 08:56AM | 0 recs

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Re: No.

Edwards doesnt owe Dean an apology. Agreed on that point. Still Edwards should have been more diplomatic on such a minor point. It's not like he was talking about such an important issue where he felt the need to breach the united front of the party. To say Dean is just a voice , and doesn't talk for all democrats is an obvious point, but said in such a tactless manner. What Edwards should have said was this "The republicans have been saying much worse personal stuff in the past and these were things said not by the fringe elements alone. Dean has been fighting hard for the party, and I will not go on record endorsing or condemning every little statement. Things are said in politics on both sides. I probably would have worded it differently. It's no big deal. We are all tough men. Or do you want me to dissect every little statement Bush and Cheney have made about other groups and politicians in the last few years. "

by Pravin 2005-06-06 11:26AM | 0 recs

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Re: No.

but said in such a tactless manner.

What Edwards should have said was this . . .

Are you reallly that naive? Why would Edwards need advice on something so basic at this stage in the game? The fact that Biden and Edwards both jumped on the same innocuous statement indicates an agenda.

For the sake of their pesonal ambition they took a cheap shot at the DNC Chair. That is inexcusable and merits an apology.

Dean has not taken personal shots at any Democrat. In the last two weeks Barney Frank, Joe Biden, John Edwards and probably Joe Lieberman have all taken shots at Howard Dean for the grave sin of criticizing Republicans. That is ridiculous.

There will be no peace in the Democratic party if the DLC Demwits continue to take cheap shots at the DNC Chair. This is entirely on Biden, Edwards and the DLC powerbrokers. They all need to put a sock in it and let Howard Dean do his job.

Can you name a single other Democrat in the last fifty years who has been criticized by Democrats for being too critical of Republicans? Think about how absolutely ludicrous that is.

Biden is already toast. If he wins the Democratic primaries, the party is finished. MBNA Biden does not represent the grass/netroots and is not anacceptable candidate. Edwards has just stepped over the line. If he wants war with the Deaniacs, war he will get.

Cry havoc! Let loose the Deaniac dogs of war!

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 02:08PM | 0 recs

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Re: Yes

You still haven't pointed out exactly what Howard Dean said that was "over the top." What is there to disagree with Howard Dean about? That he criticizes Republicans?

Is criticizing Republicans "over the top"?

Is criticizing Tom DeLay "over the top"?

Exactly what is your "disagreement" with what Howard Dean said?

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 12:21PM | 0 recs

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You still think

That this is about what I think. It isn't. It's about tolerance of dissent, of which Dean supporters clearly have little, as you've proven in your numerous, repetitive posts on the issue. Edwards disagrees with Dean? Well, then he must be a supporter of Tom Delay.

Even for a Dean supporter, that's extreme.

by Drew 2005-06-06 02:49PM | 0 recs

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What is the disagreement?

You still haven't pointed out what the disagreement is. You continue to twist this into a disagreement of some sort that you cannot define or point to or explain.

Howard Dean made a humorous joke about Ken Lay Republicans. What is there to disagree about? The DNC Chair cannot criticize or make jokes about Republicans?

The DeLay reference is to Barney Frank who went on O'Reilly to criticize Howard Dean for being too harsh on Tom DeLay. HORRORS! A Democrat who criticizes Tom DeLay. What will the world come to?

You also continue to ignore the bizarre fact that Edwards and Biden and Frank have all criticized Dean for being critical of Republicans. That is absolutely bizarre.

Feel free to maintain your fantasy. Edwards and Biden will both discover that Howard Dean is far more popular than they are. If they have trouble with a DNC Chair who criticizes Republicans, maybe they are in the wrong party.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 03:38PM | 0 recs

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Again, ha!

If Howard Dean is so much more popular than John Edwards, why did Edwards win more votes than him in the Democratic Primary?

Otherwise, I think Edwards explains his disagreement perfectly. I know you won't be satisifed, because this isn't about why Edwards disagreed, but that he dared disagree at all.

by Drew 2005-06-06 03:59PM | 0 recs

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Re: Again, ha!

Thanks for the link Drew...good stuff!

I think there are two people who have long since forgotten about this "supposed" flap, if they ever even cared.

They are John Edwards and Howard Dean.

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say, let's get back to the work of the Democratic Party, and stay from all of this personality bullshit.

by v2aggie2 2005-06-06 10:35PM | 0 recs

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Re: Edwards doesn't owe Dean a damn thing.

Yes, but Edwards does owe Dean an apology for the manner in which he managed the disagreement, in my opinion. We're a big tent, and we need to be consistently careful about our disagreements. When the press is playing "gotcha" once again, we need to be ready to parry the attack and turn it into a soundbite for our side.

"While I wouldn't have put it that way, Governor Dean is speaking to the same themes I have always emphasized. There are two Americas -- those who benefit from the current system and those who are left behind. A lot of folks have jobs that make it easier to vote -- or are fortunate enough not to have to work for their living. Others cannot reasonably afford to take time off from hourly work to wait in lines which seem to be longer in less affluent precincts."

Or,

"I'm not interested in this game of media gotcha; working men and women in this country face real problems . . ."

by Kimmitt 2005-06-06 09:20AM | 0 recs

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Disagree about what?

Edwards commented without knowing what Howard Dean said and obviously, so are you. I just posted the "over the top" statement that Biden and Edwards are criticizing.

Maybe you would like to explain just exactly what was so "over the top" about a mild dig at Ken Lay Republicans.

This has nothing to do with a disagreement or setting policy. It is a clear example of chop blocking the DNC Chair for absolutely no reason. Maybe Biden and Edwards are running for the nomination in the Republican party. They clearly will get Robert Novak and Bill O'Reilly's vote.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 09:38AM | 0 recs

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Maybe you would like to explain

Why you characterize any disagreement with Dean as "running for the nomination of the Republican Party."

Come on, Gary. Can't you tolerate even the slightest disagreement?

by Drew 2005-06-06 09:58AM | 0 recs

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No public disagreement, period.

If you feel the need to mud wrestle, then rent a private conference room. Cover the flood with dirt. Add water and go at.

Inter-party rugby scrums can be as tough and bloody as they like, as long as the only ones talking about them afterwards are their staffers.

by afs 2005-06-06 10:07AM | 0 recs

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Re: Maybe YOU would like to explain

what on earth you are talking about? Are you questioning whether John Edwards is keeping his name in the running for the Democratic nomination?

That is ridiculous. You are free to be as naive as you wish. Don't expect the rest of us to follow along.

You still have refused to address exactly what Edwards' disagreement was with what Howard Dean said.

Was it a disagreement over policy? No. Dean's statement didn't address policy in any way shape of form.

Was it a disagreement over criticizing Republicans?

What was wrong with what Howard Dean said that was deserving of criticism?

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 12:25PM | 0 recs

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Re: Edwards doesn't owe Dean a damn thing.

It's not disagreeing that is the problem. I've no problem with Edwards disagreeing with Dean or even thinking Dean's words were impolitic. The problem is airing it in public instead of calling him up on the phone and having a private conversation about it. The problem comes from not being capable of answering a question about it by turning it around into an attack on the real enemy. It is a common and simply political talk show trick to take the questioners stupid assed question, ignore it in part or completely, and turn it into a full out assault on the real, common enemy (the Republicans) or a full out campaign commercial for your own favorite position and issue. Simple, common, done all the time by the Republicans but so many Democrats spend their time being so afraid of Howard... so afraid of US that they can't figure out how to actually win a war of words.

That's the part that is a problem.

by Andrew C White 2005-06-06 03:01PM | 0 recs

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sorry state of affairs

it's a sorry state if Biden and Edwards have calculated a PR 'plus' out of distancing themselves from Dean...

there are lots of ways to support Dean without signing up 100% for every single thing Dean says (or his style)... use a little humor, a little clarification, use the opportunity to draw a distinction between the many Republicans who ARE just like the rest of us, and the Republicans who decidedly ARE NOT (entitled, powerful, have influence and access and are the actual -- not Bush's fictional -- owners in Bush's Ownership Society). That is, use the opportunity to shine the spotlight on those few Republicans who reach and maintain their positions on the top of the heap by standing on the backs of the rest of us, including a large portion of the Republican voter demographic.

Come on guys, find ways to support Dean and not to undermine him... have a private talk with him if you've got a problem. Smarten up for once.

by sarany 2005-06-06 08:28AM | 0 recs

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Dean's statement

Just for the record, here is the statement that Biden and Edwards criticized:

"You think people can work all day and then pick up their kids at child care or wherever and get home and still manage to sandwich in an eight-hour vote? Well Republicans, I guess can do that. Because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives."

-- Howard Dean, at a convention in Washington, D.C

That was a joke for the Edwards supporters who need to replace the batteries in their snark detector. It was only mildly harsh and not at all worthy of a denunciation by two "contenders" for the Democratic nomination for President.

Biden and Edwards both demonstrated poor judgment in using such a lame example of criticizing wealthy Ken Lay Republicans to attack the DNC Chair.

Maybe Biden and Edwards would like an official Democratic party rule that the DNC Chair is only allowed to make complimentary statements about George Bush, Tom DeLay and the Republican party.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 09:35AM | 0 recs

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John, running to right of Hillary is a bad idea.

Here's a little tip, John. The last thing you want to do at this particular point in time and space is run to the right of Hillary, and make Hillary more acceptable to the liberal party base.

John, you need to be throwing everything in your golf bag (including those Carolina blue fuzzy driver covers with the UNC National Champs logo) at Hillary's exposed left flank, not flail aimlessly her ironclad right flank. The only thing that does is drive Hillary's negatives down among progressives.

John... whoever is advising you to make a hard right turn in rhetoric? Fire them.

by afs 2005-06-06 09:20AM | 0 recs

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Edwards lacks Dean's class

For a guy with a supposedly rash demeanor, isn't it weird that Dean is one of the very few democrats who hasn't bashed a single democratic leader like Edwards or Kerry, once he dropped out of the primary and vowed to help the party while Edwards and lieberman who are supposedly mature leaders have taken potshots at him.

by Pravin 2005-06-06 09:29AM | 0 recs

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Re: Edwards lacks Dean's class

Of course the MSM will mention that or pick up on that, because it is all too inconvinient for these a**holes to fit into their stale narrative built out of the Iowa scream.

by Lakid1995 2005-06-06 09:32AM | 0 recs

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Re: Edwards lacks Dean's class

Exactly right Pravin. Howard Dean has not criticized a single Democrat or a single vote by any Democrat. He has more class and more media savvy than Biden, Edwards, Barney Frank and Lieberman all wrapped up in one.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 09:39AM | 0 recs

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Re: Edwards lacks Dean's class

Perhaps I stand corrected. My agreement with NevadaDan in another string probably needed more clarification.

I did not get what everyone meant about Republican Talking Points. Now I do.

Dean has backbone and it's this quality that will bring others, "the apathetic", into the process.

I wish Edwards, Biden and the DC crowd will just 'get it' already.

I bet they'd win more votes if they stood with Dean than away from him...

by dayspring 2005-06-06 05:38PM | 0 recs

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Edwards owes the Democratic party an apology

It's not just Howard Dean. John Edwards chop blocked the entire Democratic party be responding to a journalism hack's characterization of what Howard Dean said.

Neither the hack nor Edwards were relying on Howard Dean's words, but on what the hack said Dean said.

This demonstrates a lack of judgment by John Edwards and calls into question his ability to deal with the biased media that will be covering any Democratic campaign.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 09:32AM | 0 recs

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Folks I also have a cross post on dailykos ...

I just posted this on dailykos as well. If you all can recommend it and get the discussion up there as well, it would be much appreciated. Thanks again.

by Lakid1995 2005-06-06 09:35AM | 0 recs

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Re: Folks I also have a cross post on dailykos ...

I'll observe, but I don't participate at dkos anymore. The atmosphere is just a little too "DLC" for my taste. I got tired of bumping heads with Armando about the direction of the party and his defense of "centrist" Democrats.

Good luck. I'll be very interested in the reaction from the Kosmopolitans.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 09:42AM | 0 recs

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Re: Folks I also have a cross post on dailykos ...

I noticed your diary bombed. That's what I expected. Nice try though.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 12:26PM | 0 recs

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Re: Folks I also have a cross post on dailykos ...

We did it get 50 comments though, which wasn't so bad. I guess I should have done a better job promoting it. Oh well. This is just as influential site though.

by Lakid1995 2005-06-06 12:44PM | 0 recs

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Re: Edwards owes the Democratic party an apology

Edwards was a one term senator with no previous or post political experience. That was and still is my biggest problem with him. He simply does not have the experience. It showed in the V.P. debate where he did surprisingly poorly and it shows now. Edwards is a non-issue unless he gets himself a political job and gains some more political experience. He has a ton of potential but he simply does not have the experience.

by Andrew C White 2005-06-06 03:03PM | 0 recs

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Re: Edwards owes the Democratic party an apology

Edwards was manipulated by a media hack into criticizing the DNC Chair. His comment proves that Edwards is not ready for prime time.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-06-06 03:40PM | 0 recs

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Re: Edwards owes the Democratic party an apology

I think you're way overrating the effect of this gargantuan waste of time.

by v2aggie2 2005-06-06 10:19PM | 0 recs

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Rather than playing passive-aggressive

hall monitor by tossing troll ratings on the basis of your standard of civil discourse, while discounting real concerns about those who actively working to bring our party back to power by doing the grueling work of field operations in places Democrats haven't been a presence for decades....

perhaps you might actually attempt to understand why something like what Edwards said could be so damaging in the long run, especially when the history of this talking point can be tracked back to various right wing boards.

It behooves all of those who want us back in power to stand behind the leadership of our party, when a little research would show that Dean is succeeding way beyond expectations for the greater good of the party.

People who support the chair are not acting out narrow interest in the promotion of Dean, they are standing up for him because that is what you do when the other side attempts to divide and conquer.

By undermining, by inference, Dean in public, Edwards made an error which could hurt him should he ever become president, and it is IN HIS INTEREST that Dean succeed. It is in all of our interests.

And perhaps if some people could attempt to understand why it is important to close ranks now, rather than later...perhaps we might actually win back the house and senate, rather than waste time doing the Republicans' work for them.

by nanorich 2005-06-07 07:12AM | 0 recs

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Re: Rather than playing passive-aggressive

Sorry, I felt the ratings were deserved.
Even this response is taking up precious seconds

by v2aggie2 2005-06-07 10:22PM | 0 recs

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Your article got bombed

because a lot more people go to Kos than MyDD, therefore a lot more people write diaries. This happens to me a lot because I write a diary and three hours later, it's gone. In the case of John Edwards carping after Howard Dean, I think Edwards is finding out that Dean will say anything to anyone at anytime. Sometimes Dean can be quite eloquent, and at other times, Dean speaks to the base and alienates everyone else. Dean has to learn to have a lockbox on his mouth sometimes.

by liebermanlives 2005-06-06 01:31PM | 0 recs

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Re: Your article got bombed

The only folks who need probably need to have a lockbox on their mouth are those Lieberman supporters - Republicans pretending to be Democrats. Dean speaks to the base?!! How dare he speak to the base? rofl

by Lakid1995 2005-06-06 01:33PM | 0 recs

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Re: Your article got bombed

Folks that can't keep their disagreements in house and behind closed doors are the ones that need a lock for their lips. I don't expect everyone to agree with Dean anymore then I expect everyone to agree with Lieberman. But it does none of us any good when "leaders" in the party can't figure out how to go on the attack against the enemy instead of doing the enemies business for them by attacking our own. That kind of "leadership" we do not need.

It would really easy for Edwards or Biden or anyone else that doesn't like Howard's bluntness to use his blunt statements to make more eloquent and seemingly moderate points in taking the attack to the Republicans... taking the attack to the Republicans... taking the attack to the Republicans... the enemy... the other side... the bad guys... the Republicans. Easy, very easy. If they had half a brain and half a speech writing staff they'd figure out how to use Dean's bluntness to make themselves sound like the voice of centrist moderation and reasonableness while never letting up on... attacking... the... enemy.

... rather then their own side. Any serious disagreements in statements and positions can then be had behind closed doors where common ground can be found and dirty laundry can be aired and our side doesn't shoot itself all the time.

by Andrew C White 2005-06-06 02:56PM | 0 recs

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What I liked about Dean vs Edwards speeches

Was that Dean professed that dems need to talk to the people and inspire them, and then Edwards came out and did just that, all the while dismissing this new fever of Democratic navel-gazing about what we need to do.

by Sam Loomis 2005-06-06 05:28PM | 0 recs