"Hillary Clinton would not have stood around, staring at herself in the mirror and let the McCain camp plot, plan, and execute as they wished"

heh, you mean like she did during the primaries.  She was the favorite, remember?  She lost because she wasn't prepared to run the race she needed to run.  This site is still in a sad state considering this diary is on the reclist, as others from desperate PUMA's and the like have occupied spots on the reclist recently.  Sad to see it still hasn't really recovered from all the anti-Obama stuff yet.  I thought it would when the primaries were over, guess not.  Maybe after Obama wins, who knows?

It's on drudge now too, highlighted in red down the left-hand side of the page, with a link to the daily news article.

http://www.drudgereport.com/

that makes sense to me.

In the interest of brevity, I'll just respond to your #1. -  "the p.v. is split pretty evenly.  Some estimates give it to her; some give it to him."  The diarist doesn't say anything that even remotely acknowledges any interpretation other than that Clinton simply won the popular vote.  This subjective notion is presented as if it were an undiputed, objective fact, which even you acknowledge it is not. The diarist makes the following claim:  

"Hillary Clinton has won the popular vote by over 300,000 votes.  Barack Obama has won 130 more pledged delegates.

Here are the final totals:

POPULAR VOTE  (all primaries and caucuses)
Hillary Clinton: 17,785,009
Barack Obama: 17,479,990"

Later in the diary comes this assertion:

"1. Hillary Clinton has now officially won more votes than any person to seek the presidential nomination of EITHER political party in history, and her candidacy accurately represents the will of the people who voted in the Democratic primaries and caucuses."

Now, I ask you, Slynch, where is it that you see the diarist, in this diary, giving any creedence whatsoever to this notion ["1.  the p.v. is split pretty evenly.  Some estimates give it to her; some give it to him."] that you have identified as being a "point" that you "got from" this diary?  Where does the diarist acknowledge an estimate that would "give it to him".  I don't doubt the you believe this, but I find it hard to see how you found this notion expressed in this diary in any way whatsoever.

"I agree with most of what you said, except one thing:  It isn't about convincing this diarist or her followers to support Obama at this point.  It is about getting more reasonable HRC supporters to start supporting Obama."

Fair point.  I agree that its pointless to try and convert the likes of this diarist into the pro-Obama or even the 'might consider voting Obama' camp.  I guess I just find it hard to see how we can start to make the pitch to the non-delusional Clinton supporters when we still have to deal with folks like this diarist trying to convince them not to support the Democratic Nominee on this site.  Honestly, I don't think Obama will have too much trouble winning in November in any case.  In my view, diaries that are obvious distortions of reality like this one deserve to be ridiculed if the overall content of this site is to maintain any legitimacy.

"Neither candidate secured the required amount of pledged delegates to clinch the nomination."

Willful ignorance - that's all I can say.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/200 8/06/03/obama-clinches-democratic-nomina tion/

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/ story?id=4987177&page=1

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?
id=D912O5FG0&show_article=1

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/04/a merica/04cndcampaign.php

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/poli ticalintelligence/2008/06/obama_poised_t o_1.html

http://www.cnbc.com/id/24951953

Rec the other diaries too until "It's a tie" is gone.  "We Have a Nominee" deserves it.  "It's not a tie" is pretty short, but sends a direct signal of rejection to "It's a tie".  "Hillary Rosen..."  deserves a rec. you get the point.

whoever they are, they are perpetuating an atmosphere here that hinders having an honest, helpful conversation about how we can go about achiveing the goal of electing a Democratic President.  Rec'ing a diary that tries to create the illusion that "It is a tie", in reference to the Democratic Presidential Nominating process after said process has officially come to an end serves no purpose but to undermine the result of that process, and, therefore, to hamstring our efforts to move the conversation forward in a positive manner.

What are the 'reasonable points' you got from this diary?  I've made several 'serious responses' to this diary such as this one...

...the diarist wrote, "Because there will not be a nominee until August.  There will not be -- there cannot be -- any nominee until August.   And even the "presumptive nominee" status is a stretch because normally that claim is made by a candidate who has reached the required number of PLEDGED delegates (as John McCain did)."

I responded as follows -

"John McCain's 'presumptive nominee' status was based on just pledged delegates because THE REPUBLICANS DO NOT HAVE SUPERDELEGATES.  As for the Democratic pledged delegates(elected delegates), Obama secured a majority of them a few weeks ago.  And he also has now clinched a majority of the superdelegates too, and in the process of winning all these delegates, he has indeed clinched the nomination.  Hillary Clinton will not be the nominee.  It's over.  Time to let it go.  There's no time to coddle these folks who seek to undermine Obama's legitimacy."

fair point, no?

Slynch -

I understand that attacking the diarist for things she/he may have said elsewhere doesn't serve to provide a criticism for diarist's present diary, but it should be immediately obvious that the diary is wholly absurd as is clear from it's title.  It is not a tie.  It is obvious to anyone with any access to public media over the last 24 hours that Obama has clinched the nomination.  

If one wanted to waste one's time, one could go through and pick apart each aspect of the diary that is false, misleading, and detrimental to the prospects of electing the Democratic nominee, but to do so would be an exercise in futility.  You would never be able to convince this diarist and the small cadre of her cohorts that hijack the reclist to see the error of their ways.  

It is clear that there is no reasonable response to this nonsense other than to reject it on its face and point out that the diarist is adding nothing to the cause of electing Democrats this year but is only drawing out the process of eliminating these delusional, "Denver!"-chanting, voices from the constructive conversation we are attempting to have on this site.

Why rec a diary titled "It's a tie"?  Do you think this an accurate portayal of the state of the race?  Do you think perpetuating this idea in the delusional manner the diarist has will help to elect Obama?  Indeed, will it help Hillary Clinton herself to move forward and do the right thing, a chance she passed up last night?  This diary accomplishes nothing positive whatsoever and serves only to undermine the Democratic Nominee.

It's pretty simple, really.  Just look at the people who are rec'ing these diaries and take away their rec'ing priveleges.  Will they still hijacking the reclist in Aug. getting all pumped up for a convention protest, all 19 of them(there are presently 19 rec's for this diary).  How about September?  November even?  I've got a better idea - get rid of them now.  This site should be better than that.  This isn't No Quarter or Hillaryis44, this is MyDD.  It should be better than this.

I agree, but get it off the reclist somehow.  Don't let these holdouts hijack the reclist.  This stuff needs to stop.

"Because there will not be a nominee until August.  There will not be -- there cannot be -- any nominee until August.   And even the "presumptive nominee" status is a stretch because normally that claim is made by a candidate who has reached the required number of PLEDGED delegates (as John McCain did)."

John McCain's 'presumptive nominee' status was based on just pledged delegates because THE REPUBLICANS DO NOT HAVE SUPERDELEGATES.  As for the Democratic pledged delegates(elected delegates), Obama secured a majority of them a few weeks ago.  And he also has now clinched a majority of the superdelegates too, and in the process of winning all these delegates, he has indeed clinched the nomination.  Hillary Clinton will not be the nominee.  It's over.  Time to let it go.  There's no time to coddle these folks who seek to undermine Obama's legitimacy.

Theses delusional screeds are just a lame attempt to undermine the legitimacy of the Democratic Nominee for President of the United States, Senator Barack Obama.  Diaries that push Clinton supporters further toward the edge of denial serve only to hinder the prospects of electing a Democratic President in '08, and should be called out as such.  It should be made clear that they are not welcome on a site dedicated to a Democrat becoming the next President.

ditto, she'll deserve a break when she admits its over

a good way for her to get a better shot at VP would've been to acknowledge that the race is over and Obama won.