Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime minster

OBAMA busted again on spreading LIES.  

After weeks of trying to push false lies about Hillary clinton and her work on the Ireland peace accords.  

Prime minister of Ireland says Obama tried to wrangle opposition to Hillary's claim of working on the on IRELAND  peace process

....and he told  obama , she was an extremely important figure in those peace process!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA_LBieb8 PQ ( WATCH VIDEO OF PRIME MINSITER)

Northern Ireland · Nov. 30 – Dec. 1, 1995; Oct. 31, 1997; Sept. 2 – 3, 1998; May 12 – 13, 1999; Dec. 12 – 13, 2000. Hillary traveled to Northern Ireland five times as First Lady and gave what Northern Irish leader and Nobel Laureate John Hume recently described as “decisive support” to the peace process in Northern Ireland. She focused especially on encouraging the emergence of women in the political process. In addition, Hillary's work at the grass roots and behind-the-scenes helped cultivate the conditions necessary for the peace to take hold and last.

Tags: obama (all tags)

Comments

108 Comments

Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

Can't really argue with that.

by americanincanada 2008-03-20 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH
It's starting to look like Hillary might have a religious issue of her own that is a lot more sinister than Obama's:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-eh renreich/hillarys-nasty-pastorate_b_9236 1.html
 
by bacalove 2008-03-20 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

ROFL guy , where u born yesterday to cite a Huffington post anti hillary author on an article that was debunked as pure balooney a year ago?

LOL... may I guide you to dick morris next?

by jayatl 2008-03-20 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

Actually, it was HRC who supported Morris.

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editor blog/034

by 1jpb 2008-03-20 01:28PM | 0 recs
One has to wonder what did Obama really say...

Its getting so hard now to tell the truth from the spin.

It seems as if there is a dearth of real information  - primary sources.

by architek 2008-03-20 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

How is that relevant to this post on N. Ireland?

Please stay within the rules.

by JoeySky18 2008-03-20 09:46AM | 0 recs
It isn't Joey, but this person....

now feels like s/he has pointed out something that will trash Hillary from a religious standpoint.  They just can't stand it when BO makes a big mistake and they can't pin it on Hillary.

So sad.

by Shazone 2008-03-20 12:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

Oh, stop!  You've already trotted out that dead dog on another thread.

by creeper1014 2008-03-20 10:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

Ooops...that's a little wrong.  You made an entire diary out of that smarmy story. Well, almost a diary.  It was three sentences and a link.

Really doing the tough work, aren't you?

by creeper1014 2008-03-20 10:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

I see you are busy doing the Republicans opposition research along with the traitors at Huffington Post.  I guess you all really want a McCain presidency if you cant have Obama.

by ddigioia 2008-03-20 10:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

I see you are busy doing the Republicans opposition research along with the traitors at Hillaryis44/Taylor Marsh.  I guess you all really want a McCain presidency if you cant have Hillary.

FTFY.

by doschi 2008-03-20 11:04AM | 0 recs
Na na a na na....

God, how childish.  I'll call you a bad name and raise you one. Na Na a Na Na!

So sad.

by Shazone 2008-03-20 12:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

Traitors?  That pretty far over the top, don;t you think?  There's no need to address fellow Dems that way.  Completely uncalled for.

by Denny Crane 2008-03-20 11:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

I agree with you Denny.  I just modded the above post to prove how ridiculous it is.

If HRC gets the nom, I will NOT be happy about it, but I AM A DEMOCRAT, and will vote for Hillary over McCain.

There is too much at stake in this election for any of us to take our toys and go home just because our particular candidate of choice does not get the nom.

Make no mistake, I will be pissed if Hillary wins, but I will suck it up and vote for her because the direction of the country is more important than my hurt feelings.

by doschi 2008-03-20 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

I actually diaried about this on Kos back when she was "inevitable", you would not believe the Obama fans that would swear they would never EVER vote for HRC!!!

BTW, many Obama supporters equally trashed Edwards at every turn on that blog, even though he had a TON of support there.

That kind of behavior makes unity talk difficult now.

I also wish Barack had not been so cocky about the idea of  vp to Hillary.

He could have made the same point without exaggerating his lead.  Anyone who has followed politics for more than a year knows there is no landslide here unless you selectively use metrics that specifically support you own viewpoint.

That is spin.

by Al Depansu 2008-03-20 12:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

How can you say his lead is exaggerated unless you can answer:

What states does HRC need to win, and by how much?  What elected delegate deficit does she need going into Denver?  What super delegates do you expect to go with HRC?  Don't forget that there are notably more uncommitted SDs in the BHO states than there are in the HRC states.

If anything BHO is underestimating his position, because no HRC supporter has answered the questions above.

HRC (and some of her supporters) should get a hold of reality and support the eventual Democratic nominee.  But, the Clintons have a record: Clintons first, Democrats second.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200102/sc hneider

by 1jpb 2008-03-20 01:38PM | 0 recs
Predictable

I see you have your point of view, and agenda.
Hillary wins  primaries (actual voting, not caucuses) with  a more significant electoral college outcome.  

Winning in a red state with most moderates clocking in as Republican (leaving the Democrats a little more liberal than the main stream democrats country-wide) is not as convincing to me.

If Obama had won California, or the Texas Primary (not Caucus) I would concede that it is over.

Please do not simply trash that logic or change the subject.

The facts remain......

I don't doubt that Obama can eke out a nomination win barely among the democratic primary voters, which is a lopsided group.  

Besides, if one of the most diverse states in possible play during the General Election, Florida doesn't even count...
then it will be the Democratic Primary Season as a whole which should be called a beauty contest.

by Al Depansu 2008-03-21 07:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Predictable

All those words and not one of my questions answered.

That you see is HRC's problem, no path to the nomination.

by 1jpb 2008-03-21 04:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

I actually diaried about this on Kos back when she was "inevitable", you would not believe the Obama fans that would swear they would never EVER vote for HRC!!!

BTW, many Obama supporters equally trashed Edwards at every turn on that blog, even though he had a TON of support there.

That kind of behavior makes unity talk difficult now.


So you're saying that your eventual vote in the GE could be influenced by the fact that you think Obama-bloggers were rude and nasty?

I'd hope you'd be a little more thoughtful in your decision than that.

by desertjedi 2008-03-20 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH
I'd hope you'd be a little more thoughtful in your decision than that.
It is precisely the rude and nasty behavior that is quite indicative of the so-called movement. It screams hope but often spews venom. Do you think by berating other people who were politically active and aware long before most people had heard of Barack Obama that a spirit of goodwill will be engendered? I actually don't find BHO to be a horrible candidate, he seems to be a fine man in many respects. But the people on these blogs trying to "school" anyone who has a differing opinion about who should be the next presidential nominee of the Democratic Party are kind of silly. I know why I chose my favorite candidate, I have been at this longer than these blogs have existed. Some of us KNOW what time it is, and can see through the rhetoric of the talking points that so often convince the politically naive. If you want to support a candidate, you should always be CIVIL. No matter what. That is my point.
by Al Depansu 2008-03-21 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

Does not show in her schedules.  

by Spanky 2008-03-20 08:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

Ignorance is bliss for you obamabots?... besides are u now calling the IRISH prime minster a liar? LOL

I added Hillary's schedule on trips to Ireland.

by jayatl 2008-03-20 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

Actually it does. Even CNN did a package on it yesterday. DUH!

by americanincanada 2008-03-20 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

Do you think the NYT is a liar?

The documents offer no support for her claims, made during the presidential campaign, that she helped to negotiate the Irish peace accords or facilitated the flow of refugees in the Balkans. Neither is there evidence in them to back up her claim that she helped pass the Family and Medical Leave Act, the first legislation Mr. Clinton signed as president. The legislation, sponsored by Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut, sailed through Congress and landed on Mr. Clinton's desk 10 days after he was inaugurated. Indeed, on the day Mr. Clinton signed the bill into law, Feb. 5, 1993, there is no indication on that day's calendar that she attended.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/us/pol itics/19cnd-archives.html?pagewanted=1&a mp;_r=2&hp

by 1jpb 2008-03-20 02:49PM | 0 recs
NYT is a Huge Obama Shill

They hardly said a peep about Wright, but after Obama's "save my ass" speech, went into a manic euphoria and proclaimed  him John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson and Abraham Lincoln.

by earthoat 2008-03-20 05:02PM | 0 recs
Re: NYT is a Huge Obama Shill

That's the editorial board, which you may recall endorsed HRC--although it sounds like that endorsement may have been pushed onto the board.

Anyway, my link above is to a news story, not an editorial.

by 1jpb 2008-03-20 05:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

You believe everything you read in the NY Times? Ever heard of Judith Miller?

by Alice in Florida 2008-03-20 05:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH

I suppose we should get all of our information from the Hhub.  You can keep your campaign propaganda that even Tapper (who spends a lot of his time attacking BHO) has said is false.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/ 2008/03/hillary-clint-1.html

I'll stick to the NYT.

Delusional is as delusional does.

by 1jpb 2008-03-21 11:02AM | 0 recs
You all have got to be kidding with this

schedule crap.  You know what my outlook schedule looks like? Well, I can tell you with certainty that it reflects about 5% of what I actually do in the day and it is full- form 7am to 7pm.  Get a grip, you sound like a bunch of pedantic sycophants.

by linc 2008-03-20 08:35AM | 0 recs
pedantic sycophants

Well put. Reminds me of the Starr committee, who never really got traction until they found semen.

by techfidel 2008-03-20 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: You all have got to be kidding with this

Hillary didn't keep her own calendar. Plus those documents are governed by federal law.

Is your calendar governed by federal law?
Do you keep your own calendar?

by politicsmatters 2008-03-20 09:07AM | 0 recs
Very good point

my calendar doesn't have over a third of it redacted nor does it have anyone else's imput, both of these things make it very easy to misinterpret and misconstrue what was actually taking place.

by linc 2008-03-20 09:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Very good point

She has staff who, under penalty of federal law, were required to keep track of  her schedule. These laws go back to Watergate, so that such records could be subpoenaed if necessary.

This is not an informal process, like someone keeping a personal calendar. It is governed by federal law.

by politicsmatters 2008-03-20 10:27AM | 0 recs
I guess i missed it on the calendar

when Hillary and Bill were scheduled to have private conversations about Nafta or the transcripts of everything that was said during any of her noted schedule items...

by linc 2008-03-20 10:44AM | 0 recs
Re: You all have got to be kidding with this

Hmm...

So wouldn't the same rules above apply to Obama's records in the IL Senate, except at the state level?

FYI, I DO keep my own calendar.

by doschi 2008-03-20 11:06AM | 0 recs
Re: You all have got to be kidding with this

pedantic sycophants!!!!

Pottie mouth!!!!!

by Al Depansu 2008-03-20 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend

For those who can't watch the video, here is an article


Mr. Ahern called Mrs. Clinton "hugely helpful" in the process both as first lady and as a U.S. senator, and suggested some of the criticism of her are unfair.


He said the Clintons made three visits to the nation and that Mrs. Clinton continued to be engaged ever since.

"Any fair observation would find that both Hillary and Bill Clinton made peace in Ireland a priority while they were in the White House and after," he said.


by gaf 2008-03-20 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

Well, he acknowledged that Obama acknowledged that Clinton did play a part, but nevertheless, when foreign governments (I should say especially US allies) start weighing in - if only to set the record straight - it's worth noting.  This is the second foreign government to weigh in on something in this campaign, and I wonder what that conversation between Ahern and Obama was like.

by ejintx 2008-03-20 08:33AM | 0 recs
Erin go bragh

God bless the Irish and God bless Bertie Ahern.

by susie 2008-03-20 08:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

Great video!

I hope you are cross-posting this far and wide!

by Radiowalla 2008-03-20 08:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

It's politics.  Politicians supporting other politicians isn't objective evidence of anything.

Thanks for playing, tho

by Cycloptichorn 2008-03-20 08:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

Oh for pete's sake Cyclo stop with the sour grapes.  When politician back Obama you can bet his supporters jump on the bandwagon.  

by JustJennifer 2008-03-20 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

It's not objective proof of anything, sorry.

What sour grapes?  Obama is going to win the nomination, if you recall, he is FAR ahead of Clinton and she's not going to catch him.

by Cycloptichorn 2008-03-20 08:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

If you are so sure he is going to win then why go around talking shit on pro Hillary threads?  

by JustJennifer 2008-03-20 09:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

It's political discussion.  That's what folks do on political discussion websites.  How hard is that to understand?

by Cycloptichorn 2008-03-20 09:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

If you were actually trying to have a discussion instead of making pithy remarks I might believe you.  I can understand just fine - and I can see through BS too.

by JustJennifer 2008-03-20 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

Jennifer, you're wasting your keystrokes trying to engage that person in a meaningful dialogue. You're better off just talking to yourself, or perhaps a shoe.

It's quite clear that the Obama camp was wrong (again) about Hillary's record.  I don't know what better source you could have than this, but some folks are so blinded Clinton Derangement Syndrome that anything positive about Hillary just makes their little heads explode.

by Denny Crane 2008-03-20 11:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

You should spice up the little exploding head comment with some KoolAid, messiah, and cult references.

by 1jpb 2008-03-20 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

Folks this is how a cult member sounds like from the obama camp .

Meet Cycloptichorn ... The Prime minister of the Ireland  on video giving the offical word is not definitive. ROFL.....

by jayatl 2008-03-20 09:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

You should also mention KoolAid, messiah, and Clinton Derangement Syndrome.

by 1jpb 2008-03-20 01:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

Jessi jackson won South carolina too.. but lost the big prize.

by jayatl 2008-03-20 09:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

What?  What does that even mean?

by Denny Crane 2008-03-20 11:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

is that your so called highly educated opinion to Obama being busted on another lie his camp pushed out to MSNBC/ KO and media outlets? ROFL

By that extension, I guess the kennedy's  endorsment and all of his endorsments by politicans mean jack!

for so called highly educated obama / latte drinking voter, you sure know how to perform  gutter level spin politics. dude you are a joke!

by jayatl 2008-03-20 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

The irony is almost too much to take.

Yes, you're correct.  The Kennedy endorsement didn't mean jack to me.  NO endorsement means shit.  It's politicians putting themselves in the place which they feel will benefit them the most.

by Cycloptichorn 2008-03-20 09:00AM | 0 recs
Playing

This isn't a game.  And if you're a Democrat, you should think twice about attacking a Democratic Presidential nominee.  

I'm not saying "don't attack."  I'm saying "Get your shit together before you do."  What's your basis for asserting that Clinton wasn't involved in the Northern Ireland peace process?  Greg Craig's recollection?  When John Hume, Bertie Ahern, and George Mitchell recollect differently?  

Who the hell is Greg Craig to gainsay those people?  Here's his Clinton Administration foreign policy portfolio, from Wikipedia:

In 1997, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright appointed Mr. Craig as one of her senior advisors, and he served as Director of Policy Planning during 1997-1998. In late 1997, Greg Craig was appointed to be a special coordinator to focus attention on China's suppression of Tibet's cultural and religious traditions.

I'm missing the Northern Ireland peace process involvement on his resume.  In fact, I just googled ["greg craig" ireland -hillary] and got these hits, which as you can see, have nothing to do with the Northern Ireland peace process.

by Trickster 2008-03-20 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Playing

What a crock of shit.  You and other Hillary supporters haven't held back in the slightest in attacking Obama with everything you can get your hands on, including many specious and non-true issues, such as the NAFTA bullshit out of Canada.  Keep your sanctimony to yourself.

by Cycloptichorn 2008-03-20 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Playing

LOL!  Sputtering supporters sadly let down by their candidate..now playing game of "I know you are but what am I?"  

by JustJennifer 2008-03-20 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Playing
yep theyre made of rubber and were made of glue
yada yada yada
by ginaswo 2008-03-20 12:47PM | 0 recs
Who was it??

Who said her experience in this process didn't amount to more than tea at the ambassador's office?  Hmmm..

by JustJennifer 2008-03-20 08:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Who was it??

I still believe it was the tea.  Also, what about her saying she was against NAFTA, and yet she held meetings on promoting NAFTA.  How can blue collar workers really believe this woman?

by Spanky 2008-03-20 09:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Who was it??

well, the irish prime minister says she's telling the truth, and the obama propagandists are the ones blowign smoke.

the blue-collar workers who believed obama when he said he's try to save their jobs at maytag when he was taking money from the owners know who to believe now. unfortunately, it's too late to save their jobs. obama sold them out. that was an expensive lesson for them, but obama apparently didn't learn a thing.

by campskunk 2008-03-20 09:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Who was it??

There are other reports by other people in the Irish peace process who say that she vastly overstated her involvement.  

"Hillary Clinton had no direct role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland and is a "wee bit silly" for exaggerating the part she played, according to Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and former First Minister of the province."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jht ml?xml=/news/2008/03/08/wuspols108.xml

by politicsmatters 2008-03-20 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Who was it??

Your witness, Trimble, is an Irish Protestant bigot. Obama should be more careful in choosing the advocates he promotes, people like Trimble and Bob Novak don't really help. Makes him look blind to misogyny.

by souvarine 2008-03-20 09:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Who was it??

obama's not picky. look at mcclurkin and wright.

by campskunk 2008-03-20 09:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Who was it??

As I'm sure you know, there have been a variety of accounts saying this.  

by politicsmatters 2008-03-20 10:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Who was it??

Wondering about Trimble and that Nobel Prize I went to (sorry) Wikipedia.  It turns out that he and John Hume shared the prize in 1998 for their efforts to find a solution to the religious conflict in Ireland.  One could speculate on whether the Nobel committee felt obligated to award both men for the sake of evenhandedness but that's another story.

Suffice it to say that not everyone was terribly impressed by Trimble.  From that wiki article:  "Derry journilist (sic) Eamon McCann described Trimble winning the Nobel Peace Prize as winning the lottery and not buying a ticket."

by creeper1014 2008-03-20 10:39AM | 0 recs
Don't stop there.

Here's some response to Trimble's take on the issue, from the Irish Echo:

Trimble's dismissal was enough, however, to draw other Northern Ireland politicians to Clinton's defense.

John Hume has been one of her most ferocious defenders and Trimble's jibe drew swift rebuke from the man who was Trimble's nationalist Nobel partner.

"I can state from first hand experience that she played a positive role for over a decade," Hume told the Derry Journal.

Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness told the Echo that Hillary Clinton was someone who was "extremely well informed" on Ireland and its peace process.

McGuinness described Trimble's remarks as "mean spirited."

Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams, speaking in New York during his St. Patrick's Day U.S. visit, was reluctant to be drawn into a U.S. political debate, even if Ireland was the subject matter.

Adams explained that Sinn Féin preferred to stay clear of American party politics for the simple reason that it drew support from Republicans and Democrats.

"I've met the three presidential candidates and I wish them well," he said. Trimble's comment, however, had crossed the line.

"I did take exception to David Trimble saying she (Clinton) had played no role. That isn't true. For the record she did play a positive role," Adams said in response to a question from the Echo during a meeting with reporters in a Manhattan hotel last Friday.

If we're going to cite sources, let's not cherry pick them...

by Swedie 2008-03-20 10:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Who was it??

Spanky, going around and repeating the same old dumb stuff on every thread does not help your candidate.  You look like a sore loser.  

by JustJennifer 2008-03-20 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Who was it??

her schedule showed a 15 minute drop in at a NAFTA presentation and you think that is woring on NAFTA?!
David Gergen was IN the meetings and confirmed again that HRC objected to NAFTA

Sitting First Lady cannot speak out disagreeing with sitting POTUS policy

by ginaswo 2008-03-20 12:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Who was it??

Even the HRC camp is acknowledging that the schedule shows more than a 15 minute drop in.

You should get all the facts before you post a defense.  

And, your last sentence may be tactically successful for this one instance, since you're implying that she just did WJC wanted even if she was opposed.  But, I'm sure you can see that this is a strategic mistake because it acknowledges that HRC was just doing what she was told, i.e. her experience/judgment is limited to that of an assistant.  

My guess is that the official HRC defense will not be that she was just following orders.  You should check with the Hhub (as is popular for many on myDD) for your marching orders.  Then you can dutifully do as you're told, much like you're accusing HRC of having done with regard to NAFTA.

by 1jpb 2008-03-20 02:05PM | 0 recs
It's a Taoiseach smackdown!

by techfidel 2008-03-20 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

Great, highly rec'd.  

by oh puhleeze 2008-03-20 09:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

She hyped her involvement.  http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/a rchives/2008/03/clinton_a_wee_bit_silly. php

by politicsmatters 2008-03-20 09:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

This is completely ridiculous!  I'm Irish and an active member of Bertie Ahern's political party.  Bertie was placed in a very difficult personal position as he is undoubtedly good friends with Bill Clinton and no-one doubts Bill's pivotal contribution to the N. Ireland peace process.

Let me say it clearly and without ambiguity:  The Good Friday Agreement was the work of Fmr. Senator George Mitchell, Prime Minister Tony Blair and Taoiseach Bertie Ahern.  They were obviously assisted by the warring parties themselves.  Hillary Clinton had no hand, act or part to play in negotiating or implementing the Good Friday Agreement.  For her to even insinuate such a link is downright laughable and completely farcical.

That is not to say that Hillary Clinton is a great friend of Ireland.  She has given time to Irish politicians from both sides of the border and has done her bit to sustain peace, but she did not create it.

Imagine the furore had Bertie Ahern said what I outlined above: he'd have been accused of supporting BHO just as he is accused of supporting HRC now.  As I said, he was in a difficult position but he made sure to telephone BHO when he was over in Washington.  There's no doubt that Hillary is better known in Ireland but by no means is she universally supported over on our side of the Atlantic.  If anything, the gender gap is more pronounced over here.  I must admit (somewhat ashamedly) that I guffaw when I bump into a fellow Irish male who supprts HRC.

I'm a fan of Barack Obama, whose ancestors hail from Co. Offaly in the midlands of Ireland.  Indeed, I look forward to the day when he meets as President another Offaly man, Brain Cowen, who is all but certain to succeed Bertie as Taoiseach over the next year or so.

HRC is experienced but she did not deliver peace to Northern Ireland. FULL STOP. (As we say in Ireland!)  

by IrishObserver 2008-03-20 09:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

You must not have heard the latest news... Sen Obama dropped his middle name late last year.

It is not permissible to use his middle name in any polite discourse anymore!!

Kindly alter your signature line to reflect his wishes.

by SevenStrings 2008-03-20 10:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

How this comment can be rated a two, while the previous comment remains (as of now) unrated is astonishing.

Even some of the most pro-HRC types must recognize that the first comment is considerably more thoughtful.  Doesn't this make any of you cringe, at least a little?  Or, is this second comment precisely what you think of as the gold standard for commentary?  Yikes!

by 1jpb 2008-03-20 02:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH PM

Welcome to American politics, Observer. Thanks for the story, but let me add some facts. Hillary assisted in the process and provided "decisive support" to the peace process in Northern Ireland. No one is claiming that Hillary single handedly brought about the agreement, and of course Mitchell led the US efforts, it was his job.  Hillary was a part of the many people that worked to bring the parties to the agreement.

Hillary traveled to Northern Ireland seven times between 1995 and 2004, and gave what Northern Irish leader and Nobel Laureate John Hume recently described as "decisive support" to the peace process in Northern Ireland. She focused especially on encouraging the emergence of women in the political process. In addition, Hillary's work at the grass roots and behind-the-scenes helped cultivate the conditions necessary for the peace to take hold and last.

As political leaders on all sides of the process have attested, Hillary made important contributions in a wide variety of ways. She made private calls to the negotiating parties on all sides and at all levels to encourage them towards peace. She gave advice and technical assistance to Northern Ireland leaders on a range of governance issues. She used the bully pulpit to inspire and to challenge at a major address in 1998 before leaders from the contending sides.

In 1998 under the auspices of the U.S.-led Vital Voices Democracy Initiative, established by Hillary and former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright the previous year - Hillary brought together 400 women in Belfast, Northern Ireland to foster their rise to prominence and leadership and to ensure that their success helped support peace. She met with community workers and with women politicians in Northern Ireland to encourage them to take on a larger role. She carried a pledge to the government of Ireland that the United States would remain a partner in the peace process.

Senator George Mitchell said that "She was very much involved in encouraging the emergence of women in the political process in Northern Ireland, which was a significant factor in ultimately getting an agreement."

by grlpatriot 2008-03-20 10:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH PM

"encouraging the emergence" -- Well, now we better sit up and take notice!  

by politicsmatters 2008-03-20 10:30AM | 0 recs
take notice, Obama

Why don't you go write a diary about Obama's foreign policy experience. Right, you can't because he doesn't have any.

From Couric's March 10 interview of Mitchell:

COURIC: There has been a lot of controversy about Hillary Clinton's foreign policy credentials, and some of the claims she's made. She's talked about being active in the Good Friday Agreement, the agreement in Northern Ireland which you, of course, spearheaded. Can you describe her role in that process?

MITCHELL: She was helpful and supportive, very much involved in the issues, knew all of the delegates. She accompanied President Clinton on each visit he made to Northern Ireland, made several visits of her own. Her greatest focus was on encouraging women in Northern Ireland to get into and stay in the political process and the peace process. And I have said publicly many times and wrote in my book, the role of women in the peace process in Northern Ireland was significant. It did have a -- make a difference in the process, so as I said I think it was a helpful and supportive role.

COURIC: Her claims to be involved, then, you believe are not exaggerated?

MITCHELL: Well, I haven't seen the exact words that she has used to describe it. I've gotten a lot of calls from reporters who've told me what she said, but I think her statements are generally accurate to the extent that they've been relayed to me.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-20 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: take notice, Obama

grlpatriot,

You seem very well informed.  What did HRC do to help the peace process?  How many meetings, and who attended?  When did these meetings occur?  What does countless calls mean?  I only want a ballpark number; 10, 100, 1000, more?  Who was she calling?  When was she calling?  Why isn't she mentioned by name in Mitchell's book?  How does her newly released schedule fit into this picture?

grlpatriot, in your words would you say that HRC was "instrumental" to achieving piece?

Here is an excerpt from NYT:

The documents offer no support for her claims, made during the presidential campaign, that she helped to negotiate the Irish peace accords or facilitated the flow of refugees in the Balkans. Neither is there evidence in them to back up her claim that she helped pass the Family and Medical Leave Act, the first legislation Mr. Clinton signed as president. The legislation, sponsored by Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut, sailed through Congress and landed on Mr. Clinton's desk 10 days after he was inaugurated. Indeed, on the day Mr. Clinton signed the bill into law, Feb. 5, 1993, there is no indication on that day's calendar that she attended.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/us/pol itics/19cnd-archives.html?pagewanted=1&a mp;_r=2&hp

by 1jpb 2008-03-20 02:42PM | 0 recs
Re: take notice, Obama

piece peace

must preview

by 1jpb 2008-03-20 02:43PM | 0 recs
What is 'decisive' support?

The word decisive suggests that without Hillary's contribution there would not have been peace in Northern Ireland.  That's fanciful...indeed, the contention that President Reagan defeated Communism on his own is one hundred times more pertinent!  

Hillary met with members of the Women's Coalition in 1998...lovely, but no big deal.  The Women's Coalition was a laudable if ultimately unsuccessful attempt to inject some female discourse into an unfortunately male-dominated Northern Ireland political system.  Getting Monica McWilliams, tireless campaigner that she was, on board was nothing compared to dealing the heavyweights.

Ian Paisley's brand of sermonising makes Jeremiah Wright look like a pussy-cat.  David (now Lord) Trimble would make any New England aristocrat blush with his airs and graces.  On the Catholic side, John Hume was a quasi-MLK figure while Gerry Adams was (allegedly) member of a paramilitary terrorist organisation.  In 1998, Hillary did not have any sway with these sort of people.

That's not to say that Irish politicians won't be nice to HRC.  She is one of three remaining candidates for the Presidency, of course they'll be nice!  I'm not doubting either that BHO hasn't been at the forefront of N. Ireland peace negotiation either..but he hasn't claimed to be.

Once again, HRC is a friend to Ireland but that doesn't preclude BHO from being a friend either.  I'm certain that President BHO will be greeted as a rock-star if and when he comes to visit the Emerald Isle!

by IrishObserver 2008-03-20 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: What is 'decisive' support?
de·ci·sive - -adjective
1. having the power or quality of deciding; putting an end to controversy; crucial or most important.
2. characterized by or displaying no or little hesitation; resolute; determined.
by grlpatriot 2008-03-20 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH PM

First and foremost, grlpatriot, copying a meme verbatim from the Clinton campaign website does not constitute proof that she was decisive in the Irish peace process.

You know, I totally understand why so many people on this site consider Obama a liar and less than human.  I look at the headlines over the past 3 months on Hillary's "Facthub" and you'd think you were reading about the lowest of the low.  I hope you guys realize that the "Facthub" similar to the Obama campaign's "Know the Facts" page, is spin central.  Those pages are there to spin news, not necessarily facts, to make their candidate look exceptional, and make their opponent look worse.  I do think Clinton's website takes it a bit over the top, stating Obama is a liar, or lies in almost every other post, despite factual information showing otherwise.

Now, regarding Ireland.  I'm sure Hillary Clinton, as many other leaders and leaders' wives, gave her support to the peace process.  Who wouldn't.  But she was not key to the peace process or the negotiations.  Had she never visited Ireland in that entire time, or spoken about it, the same results would have occurred.  I'm not taking away from her support, but being realistic about it.

by shalca 2008-03-20 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH PM

Wow.  You're far too sensible for the average discussion here lately.  :(

by fogiv 2008-03-20 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re:

BHO is no JFK.

by moevaughn 2008-03-20 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re:

He is quite the rock star though.

by moevaughn 2008-03-20 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: another witness on N.Ireland Peace Accord.

Obama's resume is very thin.
He can only swiftboat Hillary's plentiful accomplishments as a liability and hope noone looks at his.
A Rovian tactic indeed.

Another witness coming forward to attest to Hillary's work in pushing for N.Ireland Peace Accord.
This is from Hillarysbloggers.com.

...................

Hillary's former Chief of Staff and now Chair of a non-profit group called Vital Voices Melanne Verveer,
sent me something she wrote up about Hillary's role in this peace process, as a part of the tribute being pulled together
by Stella O'Leary. Ms. Verveer worked with Hillary for 8 years and I doubt anyone has a deeper understanding of Hillary's role
or her motivations for getting so involved in all this. Nineteen ninety-five was a big year for Hillary, with trips to Beijing
for the UN Women's Conference, and her first trip to Northern Ireland.
Take a look...

   HILLARY AND THE VITAL VOICES OF NORTHERN IRELAND

.... On St. Patrick's Day in 1998, the political leaders of Northern Ireland were invited to the White House. The peace negotiations
that led to the Good Friday Accord were going on at the time and President Clinton was doing his best to encourage the leaders to
continue their efforts. The only leaders who did not have a meeting in the Oval Office were the two representatives of the Northern Ireland
Women's Coalition who were also elected to participate in the peace talks. Realizing their omission, an official on the National Security Council
called me to see if it might be possible for the First Lady to meet briefly with the two Northern Irish women leaders, Monica McWilliams and Pearl Sager.

Hillary agreed and the meeting was anything but brief. Monica and Pearl told the First Lady how important it was for women in
Northern Ireland to be able to participate fully in the social, economic and political life of their society, and they also told
her how difficult it was, how the women were ridiculed, marginalized and even threatened. They pleaded for help in skills development,
leadership training and employment opportunities. That was the birth of Vital Voices Northern Ireland. Minutes after the conclusion of the meeting,
Hillary called me and said, "We really need to bring Vital Voices to Northern Ireland. Do you think we can organize a conference in six months
that would help to build the confidence of the women, bring in experts and programs to develop their skills and provide new opportunities? We really
need to help raise the voices of the women because they are critical to build a peaceful and prosperous Northern Ireland." Vital Voices became
one of the US commitments to the peace process.

That night at the gala St Patrick's Day party in the East Room, Hillary introduced her husband
and paid tribute to the women of Northern Ireland who are the unsung heroes. Her remarks were greeted with thunderous applause...........

Melanne Verveer
Co-founder and Chairman of Vital Voices Global Partnership
Former Chief of Staff to First Lady Hillary Clinton.

http://tinyurl.com/2pfkb6

by toddy 2008-03-20 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: another witness on N.Ireland Peace Accord.

Rovian tactics? Swiftboating? Get serious.

Hillary is claiming Commander in Chief experience, based on being part of a large American delegation to Ireland. She set no policy, didn't negotiate anything, and yet she claims that this experience makes her qualified to be President. Its a stretch. At best.

by AHunch 2008-03-20 10:27AM | 0 recs
Re: another witness on N.Ireland Peace Accord.

"Hillary is claiming Commander in Chief experience"

This is just flat wrong.  The only people who can claim CIC experience are those who have held the position.

Hillary is claiming experience that qualifies her to be CIC.  On that, she's miles ahead of Mr. Obama.

by creeper1014 2008-03-20 10:45AM | 0 recs
Re: another witness on N.Ireland Peace Accord.

HillarysBloggers.com?  Now there's an unbiased source.

Standyby while I find a rebuttal quotation from:

www.toddyliesoutthepieholeallday.com

by fogiv 2008-03-20 04:05PM | 0 recs
Re:

Its not like Obama has brought peace to anything. He certainly isn't winning praise from foreign leaders because he doesn't know any and they don't know him.

by rossinatl 2008-03-20 10:15AM | 0 recs
Re:

Obama cannot even bring peace and reconciliation to his own church. How can we expect him to negotiate peace with foreign governments. I mean really!

by grlpatriot 2008-03-20 10:21AM | 0 recs
Re:

But he never claimed he did.  Hillary did - along with her false claims on SCHIP, Family and Medical Leave Act, opening borders, etc.

by politicsmatters 2008-03-20 10:31AM | 0 recs
Re: your lies

I'm going to troll this because it's all blatantly untrue.  And off topic of the diary.  And unfair.  And annoying.

by hearthmoon 2008-03-20 02:29PM | 0 recs
New Obama slogan

"I've never been to Spain, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express in Oklahoma."

by techfidel 2008-03-20 10:50AM | 0 recs
Obama supporters attacking Clinton's experience...

Just come off as silly and desperate.  Of course the woman has experience. She has been at the center of the US government for at 16 years. She is a tireless worker. She has been in the public eye. People know what they have seen. There are plenty of things to fault Clinton on, but lack of experience is not one of them.

by MediaFreeze 2008-03-20 10:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out by IRISH Prime mins

BUSTED is the right word for it. Now the Prime Minister is saying that he spoke to Obama and that he admitted he knew how important Hillary's contributions were?

Holy Sheep Shit!

by Fleaflicker 2008-03-20 10:32AM | 0 recs
What is 'decisive' support?

The word decisive means that without HRC's contribution, peace would not have been achieved.  That's frankly fanciful...indeed, the claim that President Reagan single-handedly destroyed Communism is one hundred times more pertinent!

HRC is a friend to Ireland...BHO can be just as friendly when the time comes.  I'm sure that President BHO will be hailed as a rock-star if and when he comes to Ireland!

by IrishObserver 2008-03-20 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: What is 'decisive' support?

Ireland is peaceful now - Does not want BHO to screw up things as he did when he went to Kenya and endorsed the opposition leader there

by indus 2008-03-20 10:56AM | 0 recs
Re: What is 'decisive' support?

See my comments below to address Hillary's "decisive support".

by grlpatriot 2008-03-20 11:09AM | 0 recs
Re: What is 'decisive' support?

Oh, look, a rock star!  

BHO and Bono can travel together to developing nations and design new clothing lines made out of renewal materials.

by Montague 2008-03-20 01:24PM | 0 recs
Sorry for the double post!

Sorry about the last post...I was merely repeating earlier comments that I thought had not been recorded.

Here's an interesting article from The Irish Times, noting how the power of the Irish-American lobby has waned in  recent years.

Analysis: The ties that bind Ireland and the US are not being reinforced by a new wave of immigrants, writes Mark Hennessey .

IN THE years before the Famine, and after, the Irish came to Pennsylvania, struggled and endured in the mines and steelworks and eventually overcame obstacles thrown in their way.

The memory is etched deep into their descendants' consciousness, where family, faith, tradition, community and a deep sense of being Irish-American are held dear.

Last Sunday, 1,400 Friendly Sons of Saint Patrick men came together in Scranton, as their fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers have done for more than 100 years. The top table reflected the path taken by so many Irish-Americans: filled as it was by priests, monsignors, bishops, judges and politicians, including the Governor of Maryland, Martin O'Malley.

Greeting Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, Democrat Bob Casey, himself a member of the Friendly Sons, remembered "struggle and triumph, and an abiding allegiance to faith and family. And we have an enduring belief - and we have had to believe this over many generations - in the promise of tomorrow," said the first-time senator.

Hundreds return home for the annual dinner, which has been addressed by many significant Irish and Irish-American figures during its history, including Robert Kennedy in 1964.

To the eyes of many in Ireland today, the all-male black tie gathering, with beer bought by the case, would no doubt be seen as a cross between Boys Town and The Quiet Man; an image in search of a cliché.

Yet, the sense of togetherness they clearly share; the intensity of feeling for their heritage, and, to an extent, for an ancestral homeland often unseen by many of them is real, and moving.

Such feeling, reflected in a thousand towns and cities around the US, has given the Irish a political voice in the White House and Capitol Hill, which other nations would beg to match.

And, though eaten bread is quickly forgotten, the role of Irish-Americans - such as Ted Kennedy, Richie Neal, and a host of others - on Northern Ireland is deserving of a place of honour.

Today, however, the ties that bind Ireland and the United States are not being reinforced by new generations of Irish emigrants. Just 4,000 Irish have secured Green Cards in recent years; the numbers winning lottery visas can be measured in the dozens.

The numbers of "undocumented Irish", as they are called, could be anywhere between 3,000 and 50,000, though the Government believes the figure to be somewhere in the middle.

Speaking in Washington, Ahern was unusually blunt: the immigration lobby who argue that an amnesty for "the undocumented" or a special deal for the Irish can be won are being "dishonest".

For Ahern, these are strong words, and there is now clearly some rancour or, at the very least, frustration in the relationship between him and those representing the undocumented.

Ahern's remarks were not left for long without a clearly annoyed response by Niall O'Dowd, the editor of the Irish Voice newspaper and head of the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform.

In Ahern's view, a special immigration deal for Ireland cannot be secured; nor can an amnesty be secured for those living illegally in the US while they remain there. Instead, he is investing his short-term hopes in a two-way visa deal, which would offer 18- to 30-year-olds the right to live and work for 15/18 months or so in each other's countries.

The ambition is not to win visas so that people can build permanent lives in the US but, rather, that the river of connection between the two countries can be replenished by shorter-term visitations.

If secured, such a deal would offer perhaps as many as 5,000 "super-J1" visas from the off, with more later on, and holders would be entitled to renew them once, thus offering three years in the US.

The immigration lobby disagrees. And it argues that it has been right twice before when the Donnelly and Morrison visa regimes were won without early support from the Irish Government.

Twenty years on from those successes, however, the landscape has changed. Twelve million "illegals" now live in the US; the attitude to foreigners has hardened; and the economy is in trouble.

The advantage of Ahern's "super J1" proposal is that it can be agreed with the White House - though not perhaps while George Bush remains in it - and does not need congressional sanction.

Either way, nothing much is expected to happen until Bush departs, if only because any concession to the Irish - however small - would infuriate the now much more electorally important Hispanics.

Irish-Americans' votes for the White House will not turn on immigration; the pressure from below from Irish-born illegals that might make them do so is not there in the numbers of 20 years ago.

The Bronx and Woodside in New York, and a hundred other districts, are no longer filled with the accents of 32 counties as they were once. Where once there were 17 GAA clubs there are now three.

"How do you tell a Salvadorean kid serving in Iraq - and we have many of them who are - that we won't legalise his parents, but that we will offer a deal to the Irish," said one Republican this week.

Though he may well be right, Ahern, in some ways, is adopting a more conservative approach than is held by some Irish-Americans who are infuriated with the tactics and tone of O'Dowd and the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform.

While supportive of the short-term visa plan, some in this camp believe that full visas can be secured next year once the White House's new occupant is known - though not in numbers on a scale with the past.

Republican presidential contender John McCain favoured a radical Bill to tackle immigration: and nearly destroyed his hopes for the White House in the process.

Yet, Irish-Americans supporting McCain believe that if he is elected he will try again, and that similar moves would be made by Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama.

However, the economy will decide all. Problems in Ireland will make the US a more attractive option for those in search of change. Problems in the US will make it more difficult to let anyone in.

Mark Hennessy is a political correspondent with The Irish Times and travelled to the US this week with the Taoiseach

by IrishObserver 2008-03-20 10:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama gets straightend out

Thnak you for this diary.  I'd like to add that the Irish have also expressed gratitude that Hillary actually took time out from her campaign to meet with them earlier this year.

From a recent Irish Times article referring to Irish Heads of State meeting with Hillary:

"When they visited Washington last year, First Minister Ian Paisley said he APPRECIATED THE SACRIFICE MRS. CLINTON WAS MAKING IN TAKING TIME OUT OF HER PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, which was already intense a few weeks ahead of the Iowa caucuses."

Compare that to the Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's Subcommittee on European Affairs. You know who that is.  When asked why he hasn't convened any oversight meetings (none, zero, zip), he said he was too busy running for president.  

by moevaughn 2008-03-20 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re:

correction I meant end of last year.

by moevaughn 2008-03-20 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re:Obama can only attack Hillary's accomplishments

BO can only attack HRC's accomplishments.

BO has a very thin resume.
He wanted the prestige of the position but
no paper trails.

How Is That?

BO is the Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's Subcommittee on European Affairs.

No Hearings todate.
nothing to see here people, move along.

Obamabots reduce to attacking HRC's accomplishments.

by toddy 2008-03-20 12:15PM | 0 recs
Can an Obama Supporter Ask a Favor, Please?

OK, I watched the video. The PM says that she was helpful. Cool.

But can we please stop saying that Obama "lied" about this?

Obama had previously questioned the size of Clinton's role, but he never said she played no role at all. His team simply suggested that she might be overstating her foreign policy experience. In some cases it appears she has (e.g., Kosovo) and in others it now seems clear she hasn't (e.g., Northern Ireland).

In other words, this is not a "lie". You can say Obama was wrong, or you can say he was trying to minimize, but you can't really categorize this as a lie.

Fair?

by jdusek 2008-03-20 01:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Can an Obama Supporter Ask a Favor, Please?

Next we'll see a NYT is a liar diary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/us/pol itics/19cnd-archives.html?pagewanted=1&a mp;_r=2&hp

The documents offer no support for her claims, made during the presidential campaign, that she helped to negotiate the Irish peace accords or facilitated the flow of refugees in the Balkans. Neither is there evidence in them to back up her claim that she helped pass the Family and Medical Leave Act, the first legislation Mr. Clinton signed as president. The legislation, sponsored by Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut, sailed through Congress and landed on Mr. Clinton's desk 10 days after he was inaugurated. Indeed, on the day Mr. Clinton signed the bill into law, Feb. 5, 1993, there is no indication on that day's calendar that she attended.

by 1jpb 2008-03-20 02:46PM | 0 recs

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