Obama chickens out of debates

According to Marc Ambinder, the Obama campaign has circulated a memo stating that it will accept no more invitations to candidate forums where the candidates appear together on the stage due to "scheduling" reasons.

His schedule will, however, allow consideration of forums where candidates appear one after the other and he is not subject to head-to-head comparisons.

Therefore, after this week, we will only be attending the five DNC debates through the sanctioning period of December 10, Univision, and the two Iowa debates previously mentioned. Candidate forums - where candidates appear sequentially will be considered, but we are unlikely to accept many of these.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/08/enoughs_enough_obama_will_limi_1.php

Is this turning a page and a new kind of politics?

Update [2007-8-18 12:48:38 by hwc]: Politico has weighed in: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0807/5440.html
"The announcement could affect such key Democratic constituencies as the Congressional Black Caucus, Iowa AARP and League of Conservation Voters, campaign sources confirmed."

Tags: Barack Obama, Election 2008, Hillary Clinton, president (all tags)

Comments

218 Comments

Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Coward!

by American1989 2007-08-18 07:34AM | 0 recs
real clear politics

had an article saying that with all these other pretenders up there, it makes it impossible for any contender to beat Hillary.

the media always frames it as the fiield against Hillary.

so a large group helps Hillary

by TarHeel 2007-08-18 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: real clear politics

Hillary Clinton was obviously receptive to Edwards' request to limit the debate format (and got in trouble for even listening and sort-of agreeing with the guy on tape.)   But, these are the cards that are dealt.  You make the best out of the format you have.   Nobody else seems to have a problem with this.  Obama is STILL not as widely known as he could be (look at how his supporters still claim that his name ID isn't all that high, so for him to take himself out of the introduction to many Democratic voters (the televised or Youtubed debates plus media coverage) can only mean that he either (falsely and arrogantly) thinks that introductions to as many people as possible are no longer needed, or that he thinks these debates have hurt him because they expose his weakness of not being exactly 100% up on all issues (not just book-smart but knowing all "real-life" angles.)    

by georgep 2007-08-18 08:09AM | 0 recs
true

but the real clear politics article was pretty good.

It suggested the more time that Obama stands up on stage with all those boring non-competitive people - the less he "seems" special.

also, for Edwards they said the raving Kucinich makes Edwards look like a centrist

by TarHeel 2007-08-18 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: true

I read that article.  But, honestly, I am not mesmerized by Obama in any setting.  The debates make Obama look kind of "boring," because, to many, that is what he actually is.  Dean was exciting.  A bit over the top exciting, but exciting nonetheless.  Clinton can get the crowds excited into a pretty big roar.  She knows when to pause and then deliver the zinger.    Obama needs a certain audience to achieve the same result.  The problem is that he does not seem to work for a "generic" audience, which is what hurts him in debate appeal.  

This "special" feeling some are getting must be some intrinsic group-think of a few select, not a broad segment of the Democratic population.  That is what the article failed to touch on:  Obama's appeal was mostly that he was the fresh face, when it comes to spelling out what it is he wants to achieve he does not come across as any "different," but probably more related to this decision, even as knowledgeable as the rest of the candidates on stage.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 08:25AM | 0 recs
the vannity campaigns

by gravel, kucinich and dodd and Biden are sad.

heck even Richardson is exposing himself as a liability  as VP...

I wish they'd just have the top 3 ...

however, Biden/Dodd/Kuccinich can raise lots of money from lobbyists to pay their airfare so there's no reason for them to drop out EVEN if they are going to ruin their reputations

by TarHeel 2007-08-18 08:28AM | 0 recs
Gravel does not

belong.  I'm okay with the rest.  They amy not have much of a chance, but they are legitimate.

I wish they could have split up the candidates into 4 each or something as Edwards suggested.

These debates and forums are not perfect, but I think they are useful.

by TomP 2007-08-18 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: I think Obama is right on this


His campaign also said

Candidate forums - where candidates appear sequentially will be considered,
but we are unlikely to accept many of these.

I liked the LGBT forum for its format.  Also one of the union forums was like that.  
You could get a better sense of the candidate.  And you could compare

I am tired of the multi candidate press conferences with the soundbites.  

Hillary has gotten the most she can out of those already.  

I want to see each candidate at his/her best.  

I also would like at least one more open type debate.  

If he is doing this because the format doesn't help him - well, that is a good reason.

I think Edwards is fine in the various formats but I still like hearing more than soundbites.

Although it serves Obama's needs I think it would work for all the candidates.  

I am an avid Edwards supporter, but I want more substantive times with the candidates.
I think if one of the candidates has a good idea we should go with it.

by pioneer111 2007-08-18 01:19PM | 0 recs
Re: real clear politics

But can anyone tell me, were there other debates in the pipeline?  I don't understand this memo.  I know he agreed this week to do the univision debate after Clinton did.  Does this mean if there is another big issues debate and Clinton goes he will seriously not go?  That would be most unwise.  I just don't get this.

by bookgrl 2007-08-18 08:16AM | 0 recs
Or maybe there's too many debates/forums...

You think Clinton is going to bother showing up at any debate Obama doesn't?  She'll use this as a perfect excuse.  Does anyone seriously think there's not enough "debates" and "forums"

by rashomon 2007-08-18 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Or maybe there's too many debates/forums...

Well, she agreed to the Univision debate before him, so yeah, I think she will.

by bookgrl 2007-08-18 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Or maybe there's too many debates/forums...

Clinton and Edwards showed up at several issue debates that Obama did not show for.  So, yes, absolutely, Clinton will continue to go.  The glaring Obama absences will stick out like a sore thumb.  He has had an uneasy relationship with Democratic issue groups, this jilting of them will make it worse.

by georgep 2007-08-18 08:31AM | 0 recs
Pathetic

You really live in a fantasy world, don't you.  So the smaller group thing was ALL Edwards, huh?

So then why did she continue the conversation after he had backed away?

You really see just what you want to see.

Clintonistas aren't even Democrats.

It's all about Hillary. You have no core values.  There is nothing you will take a stand on.  As long as Hillary does it it's okay.

Absolutely pathetic.

by Michael 4 Edwards 2007-08-18 09:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Clintonistas aren't even Democrats...?

or D) all of the above

by sepulvedaj3 2007-08-18 10:43AM | 0 recs
Potttta....Pottawah.....Pottawahaa.....Oh F*ck It

More embarrassing about the fact that Obama couldn't pronounce the name of the county where he was speaking was that the Potawatomie are the Native Americans of the Great Lakes Region.

EVERYONE from Chicago knows this. EVERYONE from Chicago knows how to pronounce it.

Everybody, it seems, but Obama.

Unfortunately for Obama, they apparently don't discuss such local history in the aruglula section at Whole Foods.

by BigBoyBlue 2007-08-18 09:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

How can you claim he "chickened out" if he has agreed to do 8 more?

These debates are ridiculous--and for all the media spin that Hillary does well, voters seem to think Obama has done the best (see, e.g., South Carolina debate, where both South Carolina and New Hampshire VOTERS picked Obama as the winner).

You crazy Hillary people do your candidate no help--you rarely write anything of substance, merely posting meaningless national polls.

Say something constructive or go read a book, become educated, and then come back and play with the big boys.

by Dem in Dallas 2007-08-18 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

So he's not afraid to meet with Castro, but Hillary Clinton scares the beejeezus out of him.

That's how I read it.

by hwc 2007-08-18 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

LOL

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Ah, but he isn't.  He's handled the field rather well, countering every attack.

See the actual statement from the Obama campaign for the truth:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/18/1393 8/4021

by Jacor 2007-08-18 12:09PM | 0 recs
As do other Republicans. Thanks for stopping by.

by mihan 2007-08-18 08:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Do you read?

by Dem in Dallas 2007-08-18 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Nice Saturday afternoon release of the Obama memo. They weren't trying to bury this one, were they? Ha ha ha.

by hwc 2007-08-18 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I am not surprised by this.  Obama is a wimp.  This is exactly what he would do against the Republicans if we vote him into the White House, WIMP OUT and GIVE IN.  I am over Barrack "Hope" Obama.

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 07:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Fortunately I was never dazzled by him.

I would like to see this memo. This is a strange turnabout for Obama. Why wouldn't he want to be involved in more debates? He has finally sort of mastered the format. Of course he might have realized how bad his gaffes have cost him recently and decided to minimize any additional potential problems when he has to think on his feet but ends up sticking at least one foot squarely in his mouth.

Weird!

by DoIT 2007-08-18 07:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

There's a full copy of the memo at the link I provided.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/arch ives/2007/08/enoughs_enough_obama_will_l imi_1.php

It is supposed to be posted at Obama's website today.

by hwc 2007-08-18 07:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

"This is a strange turnabout for Obama."

Agreed. What's going on within this camp?

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 07:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I mean "his" camp.

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 07:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

too busy singing kumbaya -

by sepulvedaj3 2007-08-18 10:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

You're right, lonnette33!

This undermines any suggestion that he should be trusted with the Democratic nomination.

by BigBoyBlue 2007-08-18 08:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Are you a Democrat or a Clintonite?

by Dem in Dallas 2007-08-18 10:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I am a Democrat that happens to support Hillary for President, Barack.

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I have no problem with your support of Hillary, but your obnoxious, insidious, unnecessary and unsupported attacks on Obama demean the process...and your candidate.

Hillary is better than the supporters who purport to speak for her...

by Dem in Dallas 2007-08-18 11:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

You are a disgrace to the Democratic party.

by Dem in Dallas 2007-08-18 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Recommend people.

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Just did! LOL.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

This is great news for Hillary. LOL.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Why?

Without Obama in the debate, no one cares what she says.

And what will you be saying when she follows Obama and decides not to participate (which I guarantee she will, by the way)?  Will you call her a coward?

by Dem in Dallas 2007-08-18 10:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Could Obama posters be any more "full of it"?  

Quoting Dem in Dallas:

"Without Obama in the debate, no one cares what she says."

That is one of the most arrogant things I have read on this site, ever.   So, essentially, Obama walks on water, is the messiah, everybody hangs on every word he utters?   What a load.   No wonder you act so upset here.  To you the guy is some sort of holyness.   FYI, he is just another pol, like all the others.  Some just need a little more time to wake up to that simple fact.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

You mean to say that those who follow politics religiously are going to be interested in a debate without the Clinton-Obama dynamic?

Not having both candidates in the debate takes the excitement out of the debate.  In that kind of atmosphere, sure, people are going to care less about what Clinton says.  Let's be realistic.

No, Obama does not walk on water.  But at least he's open and honest.  At least he has opened his books, released his earmarks, pushed ethical reform legislation as a platform issue, mandated broadcasting meetings between lobbyists and government officials, and opened himself for true criticism based on his history.

Let us be honest.  If Clinton opened up her records, there would be hell to pay.  Her campaign would be devastated.  Her hands are simply not that clean.  Would you rather wait til she is President for this to come out?  If she can even make it there, that is...

We already know about Rezko or a certain $160,000 on Obama.  He's taken the dirt and poured it on the table for all to see.  He isn't holy.  He has dirt on him.  But he isn't buried with it.  Clinton is.

The question is...  when will you wake up and see that?

by Jacor 2007-08-18 12:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

You make a very good point...I would love for areyouready and his/her ilk to explain why Hillary refuses to release the papers in Bill's library until after 2008.

What does she have to hide?

by Dem in Dallas 2007-08-18 12:59PM | 0 recs
Obama in WAY over his head. But has the audacity

to think he's got all the answers.  And his "followers" have a zeal like the Jim Jones Kool-Aid drinkers.  It's weird.  And creepy.

Your post perfectly illustrates exactly why - even if i constantly vacillate back-and-forth between supporting Hillay Clinton or John Edwards - I'd never consider supporting Obama.  In fact, he's be last in the Democratic field for me,not counting Gravel.

I don't have much confidence, at this point, of the longshot Edwards winning this thing.  However, something tells me I'll still be happy because I think the Hillary juggernaut is just too wide and deep.

Hey, I'm a confused guy.  Yes, I'd vote for JRE if the primary were today.  But I do have BOTH an Edwards sticker AND an HRC sticker on my truck, lol.

by jgarcia 2007-08-18 03:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I wonder if he would chicken out of debating the Republican nominee, too?

by hwc 2007-08-18 07:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Thankfully, he'll never get the chance.  That's a "nightmare" we aren't going to have to worry about.

by reasonwarrior 2007-08-18 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Wow.  So, everybody else will be there but Obama?  Why is NOBODY else complaining about the horrific schedule that makes things so terribly difficult.   Contrast this chickening-out to Hillary Clinton, who had already participated in many forums Obama had backed out of before this and still manages to have an unbelievable Senate attendance record.  

Obama's "introduction" to the American people must not be going as planned.

30% down to Clinton in California, 30%, 25% down to Clinton in Florida, 14% down in Nevada, 19% down in Michigan, last 2 NH poll showed Obama far behind, naqtional polls anywhere from 15% to 23% down.   The poll-obsessed Obama camp (spent $1 Mill. on polling) must have been shocked into this action by looking at the polls for the last 7 days and deciding that nothing has worked for them, especially the debates.  

The losers?  

1. Democrats (be they gay/lesbian organizations, major union organizations and other issues groups)  who put these issues forums together and want the candidates to go on record about issues THEY are interested in.

2. Obama, who appears to be acknowledging that debates have hurt him, so they need to be limited to just the bare minimum DNC mandated ones.    

by georgep 2007-08-18 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Since he's running as a Republican anyway, he probably doesn't think it's a big deal to stiff the various Democratic Party constituent groups.

Besides, Hillary is scary. LOL.

by hwc 2007-08-18 07:54AM | 0 recs
Hillary could put out a BRUTAL

press release on this if she wanted to..

e.g.  "Ready to meet with Ahmadinajad but not Democratic constituencies" etc...

we'll have to see if Hillary/Wolfson et al., are going to pile on???

by TarHeel 2007-08-18 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary could put out a BRUTAL

I think Edwards will have something to say about this as well.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary could put out a BRUTAL

Oooh, you are so right. This is just the opening Edwards has been desperate for.

by hwc 2007-08-18 08:43AM | 0 recs
I don't think Edwards wouuld

but that's just my hunch.

it's beautifully laid out for HIllary in light of the talking to foreign leaders but not americans meme

by TarHeel 2007-08-18 09:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary could put out a BRUTAL

I think this is a golden opportunity for the Edwards camp.  Not necessarily for them to attack Obama over his decision(although they certainly will, along with Clinton and everyone else), but for them to make it look more like a Clinton-Edwards race. He'll likely get more time during the debates, and without Obama his stature could very well rise significantly if he performs well.

by Denny Crane 2007-08-18 04:32PM | 0 recs
Self-serving

Let me get this straight. "Democratic constituency groups" want to put on an extra, say, 10 forums or "debates" -- 20? 50? --
and every single candidate is obliged to say yes to every single event, just because a group jumps and says "We're Democrats
and we wanna be on TV." And even if there are so many of these cattle calls that the groups have to band together to rent a
single television studio, where the candidates, forsaking all else, simply live for the next 6 months, any candidate who has
the sense and courage to say no to this ridiculous charade is to be labeled a traitor or a wimp.

Is that about it?

I assume, BTW, that you and your fellow Obama trashers sincerely meant to drag Joe Biden through this slime, too, for
skipping out of YearlyKos and the HRC/Logos GLBT event to go sign copies of his book at Barnes & Noble. You obviously
meant to name Biden in your comments. You just forgot.

What self-serving hypocrisy.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 10:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Self-serving

hey if Obama cant hack the schedule, how can he hack being president?

Hillary has been to more forums than he has, has campaigned in a great number of cities, AND has a better percentage of still doing her job in the Senate than any of the other nominees.

Now he's going to "take it to the real people" by campaigning - well guess what? so is Hillary and Edwards.

Dont try to bring up Biden, he didnt go, he's not getting credit for NOT showing up. This doesnt have to do with BIDEN.

by sepulvedaj3 2007-08-18 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Self-serving

None of these candidates want to be hamstrung by an arduous "debate" schedule. Obama is just the one who had the sense and courage to say so.

To suggest otherwise -- or that this is about being able to "hack" the schedule -- is pure demagoguery.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 11:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Self-serving

I have reported you to Jerome for troll rating myself, georgep, hwc and bigboyblue. Troll rating is unnecessary.

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 12:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Self-serving

Thanks for having my back, lonnette33!  ;)

by BigBoyBlue 2007-08-18 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Self-serving

Charming.

As I've indicated elsewhere in these comments, a lack of specificity in the guidelines should be not taken
as a license to be mean. Even allowing for the increasingly anti-Obama tenor of this site, there is a greater
concentration of unbridled anti-Obama hatred and venom in these comments than I have seen on any diary
here in a while.

For the sake of the larger forum at MyDD, this trend has to be checked. Indeed, the whole point of the troll
ratings was to alert the site's administrators to the sheer number of such comments -- comments which, by
the way, were incited by a diary that is entirely and gratuitously misleading. It is in that spirit that I stand by
every troll rating.

Do a little homework and you will see that I do not jump in and "3" rate comments that take a similar tone
on Hillary Clinton. Nor, as the record will show, am I a pathological troll rater.

May I say, in closing, that, however much you may dislike being troll rated, nobody likes a tattletale.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 01:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Self-serving

"It is in that spirit that I stand by every troll rating."

It is in this spirit to why I reported you.

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 01:32PM | 0 recs
You're a regular sweetheart
by horizonr 2007-08-18 01:35PM | 0 recs
I wish I could say the same for you.

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 01:39PM | 0 recs
Well, I'm very disappointed

Indeed, I have to say -- given that you and I never have had any exchange on MyDD at all --
that filing a hall monitor report as an opening gesture doesn't signal a very auspicious start
to our relationship.

Sigh.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, I'm very disappointed

"auspicious start"

You've got that right buddy/buddette!

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 03:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, I'm very disappointed

Buddy.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 08:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, I'm very disappointed

Well I am not. Good Riddance.

by lonnette33 2007-08-19 05:33AM | 0 recs
Let's be clear

I troll rate comments -- never people.

The censorious and exclusionary ad hominem of "Good riddance" -- especially when deployed
against someone with whom you previously never have bothered to engage -- is, in addition
to reflecting poorly on your candidate, far worse and far more damaging to the forum here
than is any troll rating. Indeed, it is tantamount to "bashing or attacking [another] user
on the site," which is explicitly proscribed in the guidelines.

In the course of our exchanges, George and I each, on occasion, have made clear to
the other our contempt for the other's views and/or rhetorical tactics for expressing
those views.

But neither George nor I have ever -- ever -- enjoined the other to leave the site.

by horizonr 2007-08-19 09:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Let's be clear

Quite frankly I don't care how and when you troll rate. In my opinion troll rating is unnecessary. If you have an agreement/arrangement with georgep, than good for you. I believe troll raters should be banned. I've seen many of your comments that I didn't agree with or like, but I did not rate the comment down because I didn't agree or like it. Why?  Because this your opinion and you are entitled to it. The same goes for me, this is my opinion and I am entitled to it as well.

by lonnette33 2007-08-19 01:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Let's be clear

Now knowing that you feel this way, I am prepared to agree never to troll rate you -- so
long as you are prepared to live and let live, if I feel it necessary to troll rate others.

Let's call a truce, shall we?

by horizonr 2007-08-19 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Let's be clear

You don't get it.  Whether you troll me, hwc, areyouready, bigboyblue, georgep or rrsai, it is unnecessary.  Blogging is all about one's opinion; opinions that some may not like or agree with.  We are all opinionated or we wouldn't be here on MyDD blogging.  So no, we do not have an agreement.   There is no truce horizonr!  No mas.

by lonnette33 2007-08-19 01:58PM | 0 recs
Dessert

You are so very sweet! I could just dollop you with whipped cream,
sprinkle you with cherries, and eat you for dessert!!!

by horizonr 2007-08-19 02:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Dessert

Very funny horizonr. Mr. Sarcasm I see.  Keep your day job!

by lonnette33 2007-08-19 02:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

If he cannot debate the Democratic field he would most definitely have a very difficult time competing in the general election. Democratic primaries are a love fest compared to what the general election will be.

by robliberal 2007-08-18 07:55AM | 0 recs
Double standard

Obama is "debating" them another 8 times. How many more would you like? 20? 50? Do you really wish to
argue that every Democratic candidate is hostage to every single "Democratic constituency group" that stands
up and says, "We're Democrats and we wanna be on TV" -- and that any candidate that has the sense and courage
to say no to this ridiculous charade is to be labeled a traitor or a wimp?

Where's your fire for Joe Biden, who skipped out of YearlyKos and the HRC/Logos GLBT forum to go sign copies
of his book at Barnes & Noble?

Or does the standard being asserted here apply only to Obama?

by horizonr 2007-08-18 10:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

"Unfortunately, we simply cannot run the kind of campaign we want and need to, engaging with voters in the early states and February 5, if our schedule is dictated by dozens of forums and debates," Plouffe writes. "Ultimately, the one group left out of the current schedule is the voters and they are the ones who ask the toughest questions and most deserve to have those questions answered face to face."

Can you believe Plouffe wrote this?  Amazing.

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 07:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Yes, I can.  He is in touch with the electorate.

They are tired of watching debates and forums on tv.  They would rather see the man in person.  What on earth do you think Obama is going to be doing when he is not in one of these forums?

He is going to be giving the people what they want.

AMAZING!  A candidate for the people?  A candidate who listens to what we want and gives it to us?  Astounding!

Too bad they can't all be like Obama...

by Jacor 2007-08-18 12:26PM | 0 recs
Is this really an issue?

I didn't even know there were more issues forums in the pipeline.  Is this because he didn't agree to do the univision debate until Hil did?  

by bookgrl 2007-08-18 07:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Is this really an issue?

I think you are on to something here bookgrl.

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 08:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Is this really an issue?

If there's anyone that plays follow-the-leader, its Hillary.

See the troop funding vote.

by Jacor 2007-08-18 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

So does this mean that Edwards is chicken for pulling up camp from Nevada? There are already too many debates and their boring the hell out of the average person, notice the low ratings. While those of you with no life may get off on obsessing over these things, normal people dont. As for Hillary, if he had her negatives, maybe his camp would be concerned. Don't kid yourself, you can come to websites and hide behind anonymity and call him whatever names you want but with his funding, organization and message, Obama will win.

by commoncents 2007-08-18 08:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

Thanks for clearing that up for us Barrack!  LOL

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 08:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

Can you imagine if it was Hillary Rodham Clinton pulling out of debates . Imagine what would have been said about her.

by lori 2007-08-18 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

All hell would break loose.

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

She doesn't have to worry about getting people to recognise her name.

by Jacor 2007-08-18 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

It would only be a blessing, she adds nothing anyway, "I'm your girl" and such.

by jazzyjay 2007-08-18 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

LOL

by BlueDiamond 2007-08-18 11:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

"with his funding...he will win."   Why is everything FIRST about MONEY with you people?   Money can't buy support.  Obama has outspent Clinton 4 to 1 in New Hampshire, and he is way behind.  

He can't win if he is not AHEAD in a single state.  Simple logic.  Talk about "winning" the moment he shows lots of strength in any state, surges ahead to a double-digit lead in one of the 6 early states.  Without getting a few states behind him big, he has no prayer.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

GeorgeP, this is your first rodeo, huh?

Your logic, after all, is, well...lacking (or nonexistent).

What does leading in a poll today have anything to do with winning the nomination?

For the benefit of your political education, which is clearly lacking, I suggest you look at where Bill Clinton was in the polls in September of 1991...or where Joe Lieberman was in September of 2003...or even where John Kerry was in January of 2004.

All you HRC folks have to talk about are polls.  Where's the beef???  Where's the substance?  What does she stand for, and what is her vision for this country.  That is a diary I would enjoy reading (honestly), but the rest of the trash you put out is a waste of time...

by Dem in Dallas 2007-08-18 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

if you think this election will be the same as the last 3 you're just being Naive... oh wait, its someone from the Obama camp - of course you're being naive

by sepulvedaj3 2007-08-18 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

Naivity...

It is a degree of not knowing what is going on.  For example...  many criticized Obama about his stances on Pakistan.

They focused their intent on a single line towards the end of a very long speech.

To criticize him for considering unilateral action after dozens and dozens and dozens of other possibilities, routes, and avenues was "naive".

In the end, it is more important that another 9-11 style attack or series of smaller attacks is prevented.

by Jacor 2007-08-18 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

Shows WHO is lacking political education:

Bill Clinton did not ANNOUNCE until September 1991.  Within 2 weeks he became the Democratic frontrunner.  

Comparing H. Clinton's run to LIEBERMAN's run in 2003 shows how little you know.   Sad.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 12:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

You're trying to use Edwards as a shield? Classy.  I think you should've held onto that card until more came out about this.  At this point it's just bizarre.

by Junior Bug 2007-08-18 09:19AM | 0 recs
Lead-paint toys chicken out of WalMart!

Seriously, comparing the situations: John Edwards (for shuffling a couple of key staffers from one early primary state to another) to Obama (opting out of debates that he feels he doesn't want to commit himself to) as if they had any common thread whatsoever is intellectually dishonest.

If Obama fails to show at a debate that Hillary attends, he loses lustre - is seen as intimidated; she gains attention (good or bad).

It's a no-brainer.

If Obama can convince the media to come to cover him "out with the people" more often because he's doing things differently by snubbing non-DNC-sanctioned debates, all the more power to him. I think he may be dreaming, though.  

by iddybud 2007-08-18 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

yea it actually isnt a bad plan - and while i am pushing for HRC, i think Edwards will take Iowa with HRC second, and Hillary will take NH with Edwards second (from his Iowa push).

Obama will probably place 3rd in Iowa and NH, leaving him in the dust for Michigan - Then when SC comes along, it will be too late because Feb 5th will be a blow out.

by sepulvedaj3 2007-08-18 10:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards chickens out of Nevada

Edwards isn't going to get the union vote...  its just the feeling out here in Nevada.  They do not seem him as a potential winner.  They cannot risk another Dean.

When Edwards pulled his campaign staff out, it was very poorly received here in Nevada.  People are not pleased with the move.

Iowa is too close to call.  But if the non-polled groups we have coming out in droves are any indication, Barack has a legitimate chance of winning any state where the polls are close.

by Jacor 2007-08-18 12:34PM | 0 recs
Guess what,?

Edwards did not "pull up camp from Nevada."  Your premise if false, as you likely know.

I guess you are having a tough day.

by TomP 2007-08-18 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Guess what,?

Tell that to the people.  They feel that when the staff left, so did the heart of the campaign effort here in Nevada.  They feel de-emphasized by the Edwards campaign and there will be a backlash effect for it.

by Jacor 2007-08-18 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Answering questions for voters was probably cutting in to his fundraising and concert tour schedules.

by hwc 2007-08-18 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

You don't get it, do you?

He is answering questions for special interest groups at these debates...he would rather be in a living room in Iowa talking to voters.

With Hillary busy talking to the lobbyists, I'm not sure she knows who voters actually are...

by Dem in Dallas 2007-08-18 10:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I beg to differ :

When you watched the youtube debate were you a lobbyist or " Special Interest " , I know I am an ordinary voter.

When the man with a wife with no health insurance stood up and asked a powerful question was he a special interest /lobbyist or an ordinary american citizen.

You are better off using a more cogent line of reasoning to defend your candidate.

by lori 2007-08-18 10:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Insurance companies pay to keep from being mandated to insure people.  You do not think that has any effect on the man with a wife with no health insurance?

Clinton is better off using more cogent lines of reasoning than "Lobbyists represent real people".

by Jacor 2007-08-18 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

He is answering questions for special interest groups at these debates...he would rather be in a living room in Iowa talking to voters.

You mean like this:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/42.a spx

by hwc 2007-08-18 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

to say this site has gone downhill is the understatement, I don't know who is more unlikeable, her campaign team, or shills that post on here, no wonder half the country simply can't stand her.

by nevadadem 2007-08-18 08:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Hey. Support your guy.

Explain how voters should react to his decision to consider forums where the candidates appear sequentially, but not those where they must engage in a side-by-side comparison.

I only see one explanation, but I'm open to hearing credible alternatives.

by hwc 2007-08-18 08:21AM | 0 recs
Clearly....

Sequential forums, where each candidate has 15 minutes or so are better for Obama...and take up much less time (you show up for 15 minutes...and leave).

This is the kind of thing that is a big deal to folks like us...and that no one will care about in a week.

by rashomon 2007-08-18 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Clearly....

I think you are wrong.  This is the gift that keeps on giving.  Every one of these non-DNC debates that the netroots and MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, political sites, etc. will be discussing will come with the caveat and discussion that Obama decided to pull out of them.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Clearly....

Clinton should arrange for several debates to be proposed this week. Maybe start with an invitation to a foreign policy debate and let Obama duck that one...

by hwc 2007-08-18 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Clearly....

Posters like Dem In Dallas and horizonr are shamelessly abusing the ratings system here.  They troll rate posts even though candidate's are EXPLICITLY fair game, but attacks on other posters aren't.    They can't handle criticism of Obama.   If this is the type of response, it is no wonder Obama is seen as not fit for that office.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 12:08PM | 0 recs
Spirit of the law

As I indicated below:

A lack of specificity in the guidelines should be not taken as a license to be mean. Even allowing for the increasingly
anti-Obama tenor of this site, there is a greater concentration of unbridled anti-Obama venom in these comments
than I have seen on any diary here in a while. This trend has to be checked.

I stand by every troll rating.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 12:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

If it was Hillary Rodham Clinton that pulled out of debates , I know you would have been heaping loads of praise and hi - fiving her with a signature line like that , right.

by lori 2007-08-18 08:22AM | 0 recs
Hehe!

Haha...  sounds like Edwards and Clinton after the NAACP debate!  wahhh wahhh...  they're beatin us up...  wahhh...

by Jacor 2007-08-18 12:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I agree.

Hillary brings NOTHING to the table. Will she append NAFTA? Will she bring single payer health care? No she won't.

Yes, employment was low when Bill was President but it's low now with Bush in office. So much for Presidents and their influences on the economy.

by Nedsdag 2007-08-18 03:01PM | 0 recs
P*ssy In Chief

What! A! Coward!

And this from the man who wants to be Leader of the Free World?

How hopelessly and audaciously whimpy can one man be?

by BigBoyBlue 2007-08-18 08:17AM | 0 recs
can you see HIllary's campaign

putting out a statement The Audacity of Debates

by TarHeel 2007-08-18 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: can you see HIllary's campaign

Good one TarHeel!  LOL

by BigBoyBlue 2007-08-18 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Obama fears Edwards, not Hillary IMHO.

by Cal11 voter 2007-08-18 08:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

She's been stealing the peacemaker identity from him, and Edwards may or may not take him head on at any time.  I guess it depends on what bothers him more.

by Junior Bug 2007-08-18 09:21AM | 0 recs
This is a smart move.

None of the other candidates want to do 20 debates either...they just don't have to balls to say it.

This is a nice 1/2 day story...that no one will care about in a month.  But hey...you folks got a nice diary about it!

On the political side...clearly more and more debates are helpful for Hillary, so why would you want to fight the battles on turf that favors the other guy/gal?  Kerry won the debates in 2004...did that help him win the election?   Smart political decision with minimal downside.

by rashomon 2007-08-18 08:22AM | 0 recs
Re: This is a smart move.

Hey. Fred Thompson doesn't want to walk around the Iowa State Fair, so he rides in a golf cart. Doesn't mean it will help him win the primaries.

by hwc 2007-08-18 08:25AM | 0 recs
"Grandpa Thompson"

by TarHeel 2007-08-18 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: This is a smart move.

If Kerry did not win those debates, he would have lost by more than 10 points, MA might be the only state he could have won.

His polling numbers before debates were horrific.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 08:25AM | 0 recs
Totally wrong.

Edwards and Richardson, hell, everyone aside from Hillary probably wants to do as many debates as possible.  It's their opportunity to get air time with the public.  This is politics 101.

by bookgrl 2007-08-18 08:25AM | 0 recs
We're still going to have...

MORE than one debate a month, and several in the last couple of weeks going into Iowa and NH.  What was the point of the "DNC sponsored" debates, if not to limit them to one a month?

Actually, I think the candidate group keeps to Obama's schedule, the debates are likely to be much more heavily watched...and thus more meaningful.

by rashomon 2007-08-18 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: We're still going to have...

So, DEMOCRATIC issues constituencies aren't meaningful?  What about the AFL-CIO debate we had recently?  That was a big deal.  The gay/lesbian debate.  You are fooling yourself if you think it is ok to pull out of these things.   These things come with MILLIONS of dedicated voters paying full attention.  How many people do YOU think show up at primaries/caucuses?  This is not the general election.  Only a fraction show, but chances are very high that those heavily engaged and attentive to these issues debates are amongst them.   You jilt them at your peril.

by georgep 2007-08-18 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: We're still going to have...

sounds the campaign that Hillary wants to run, Obama want's to spend less time talking to traditionsal interest groups and more with regualr voters, it's a strategic choice and only morons would throw around terms like "coward" at A dem candidate. Hillary people can ggive a shit about the democratic party, not you Goerge but they have forced some kind of cult around here and it's disgusting.

by nevadadem 2007-08-18 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: We're still going to have...

Let me respectfully state that when Obama makes the strategic choice to "spend less time talking to traditional interest groups" (Democratic ones at that) he is actaully telling them that he does not "give a s--t" for them.  At least that is what many of them will interpret his absence as.  

Now, if you think about it for a moment, the "traditional interest groups" are made up of "regular voters."  Dedicated ones at that, the ones most likely to show at the polls in lowly attended primaries/caucuses.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: We're still going to have...

This makes no sense to me at all.  I have no idea what Obama gains by not taking part in debates, and from my perspective, more is better.  I've learned things about the candidates that I didn't already know in every debate I've seen.  Getting out in front of the people on television is the best way to reach the voters.  I'm in Georgia, so I don't have much opportunity to see them in person - debates and other TV appearances are all I have.

I like to see them interact with each other.  That gives me an idea about who's fast on his/her feet, who stays on message, who can be put on the defensive, etc.  The fact that he's apparently willing to participate in one person at a time forums vs. actual debates certainly makes it look like he just doesn't want to be on stage with everyone else.  The idea that he saves a lot of time by spending 20 minutes on stage vs. 2 hours is laughable.  You still have to prepare for the forum, go there, do the obligatory handshaking after the event, etc.

Obama want's to spend less time talking to traditionsal interest groups and more with regualr voters, it's a strategic choice and only morons would throw around terms like "coward" at A dem candidate. Hillary people can ggive a shit about the democratic party, not you Goerge but they have forced some kind of cult around here and it's disgusting.

There isn't a Hillary cult around here any more than there's an Obama cult or an Edwards cult.  I do think it's inappropriate for people to call him a coward, but I also understand what they're really trying to say.  Obama's just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  He wants to spend more time with regular voters?  How can you reach more voters doing a campaign stop than you can by engaging in a debate?  He certainly can't complain that he doesn't get enough face time during them.  Dodd or Biden could say that, but not Obama.

And if you really think that Hillary supporters (with the exception of george) don't give a shit about the democratic party, then you truly are blinded by your own candidate.

by Denny Crane 2007-08-18 04:26PM | 0 recs
Hypocrisy

Let me get this straight. "Democratic issues constituencies" want to put on an extra, say, 10 forums or "debates" -- 20? 50? --
and every single candidate is obliged to say yes to every single event, just because a group jumps and says "We're Democrats
and we wanna be on TV." And even if there are so many of these cattle calls that the groups have to band together to rent a
single television studio, where the candidates, forsaking all else, simply live for the next 6 months, any candidate who has
the sense and courage to say no to this ridiculous charade is to be labeled a traitor or a wimp.

Is that about it?

I assume, BTW, that you and your fellow Obama trashers sincerely meant to drag Joe Biden through this slime, too, for
skipping out of YearlyKos and the HRC/Logos GLBT event to go sign copies of his book at Barnes & Noble. You obviously
meant to name Biden in your comments. You just forgot.

What self-serving hypocrisy.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 10:28AM | 0 recs
Re: This is a smart move.

http://www.pollingreport2.com/wh2004a.ht m

The polling data clearly showed Kerry turned a defict of more than 7-8 points in average before debate to an almost even.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 08:28AM | 0 recs
Yes....

he did very well in the debates...and still lost.  The debates are only one part of the campaign...and in a primary races with bunches of candidates (and 10 minutes between hearing from a candidate) rarely interesting.

If we were doing 3 person debates (Clinton, Obama, Edwards) and Obama said "no", then you'd have more of a case.  In 10 person cattle calls?  Not so much.

by rashomon 2007-08-18 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

to call a dem candidate a "Coward" because he only wants to appear in 19 forums shows what pathetic people you are on this forum, I should stop going here becuase it makes me want top leave the party should "Hillary" become our candidate, the scum that surrounds her doesn't do her much good in thbe likeabiltiy department which is her biggest weakness. Is this the kind of crap that Wolfson and Penn have tought you guys? Hillary may be a good person but often her supporters come of as real assholes and people pick up on it.

by nevadadem 2007-08-18 08:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Nobody is taking you seriously after loads of craps you dumped over the course...

You 'threatened' to leave here more than once. I bet it's time for really really leave.

LOL.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Hmm coming from you I would take that as a compliment.

Your diaries are just one right wing smear away from being in Rush Limbaugh territory.

Let me ask you if it was Hillary that pulled out of the debate what will your reaction be.

by lori 2007-08-18 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I seriously wonder why you write the type of inflammatory posts you do.  "assholes"?   Nice argumentation.  

Maybe this site is not for you, but I don't think you should make good on your repeated promise to leave here.  Obama needs your help on this site.  :-)

by georgep 2007-08-18 08:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I agree.  I stop in here once in a while and all I see are anti-Obama or bashing comments.  It's getting disgusting in here.  If it's not all about Hilary wining polls then it's trashing Obama.  No real dialogue on issues.  

Truly disgusting place to come to for learning or intellectual discussion.  I've only started coming here since May and since then I've noticed more foul comments becoming the norm.  

The people who to me made sense seem to show up less and less.  I'll be deleting my account soon.  No point in coming here anymore.

by Jalenth 2007-08-18 09:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Bye.

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

This place is obviously not a church for Obama worshippers, actually it should not be a church for any candidate's worshipper. Maybe dailykos suits you guys better?

Anyway, Good luck in finding your Obama church, good bye and good riddance.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

You will eat "Crow" come january. I promise you. Served cold too..

by rapcetera 2007-08-18 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

LOL

by lonnette33 2007-08-18 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I spend more of my time on DailyKos now. At least some of the Hillary supporters there seem to be more objective and easier to reason with. Forget the jokers here. It's all about the POLLS for them..

by rapcetera 2007-08-18 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Hey, I agee with you.  I don't like gratuitous slams.  But what about the Obama/Edwards supporters, paricularly at DKos?  Some of them say the most dispicable things on a regular basis about HRC.  I hope you chastise them as well.

by bookgrl 2007-08-18 09:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Absolutely, I do. I like reason and objectivity, and I find ore of it on Dkos than I find here. Clearly you will always have outliers - fanatical supporter of H, JE or BHC, but the frequency of the "SLAMS" and "Hit pieces" on here is ridiculous.

by rapcetera 2007-08-18 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Uh, Obama just decided to pull out of all forums and debates that are not sanctioned by the DNC unless they conform to a certain format he likes.   THAT is discussion worthy.  What did YOU think was going to happen with something like that?   Some of you need to toughen up a bit.  If even legitimate beefs are not acceptable to Obama posters' sensitivities, then all you want is an Obama love fest.  Well,  that is not what this site is supposed to be about.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 09:30AM | 0 recs
Demagoguery

Hillary Clinton doesn't want to be hostage to a schedule of endless "debates" any more
than Obama does. He's just the one who had the sense and courage to say so.

You and your cohort are indulging in shameless demagoguery.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Demagoguery

no one likes waking up at 5 in the morning to work until 9pm.

But it comes with the territory.

Hillary has been able to go to more forums while still visiting in homes, diners, and fairs AND continues to have a better voting percentage in the Senate than anyone else.

ITS CALLED HARD WORK - and if a candidate cant put that in during primaries, if he is burning out now, how can he last until november 2008???

by sepulvedaj3 2007-08-18 11:03AM | 0 recs
Debates as strategy

In no previous presidential campaign has there been anything close to the number of forums and "debates" in which
the Democratic candidates -- including Obama -- already have engaged. There are still 8 more of these events on the
schedule -- and Obama will attend all of them. It is absurd to suggest that anybody -- Obama included -- is shirking
their debate responsibilities, much less to elevate these tightly scripted cattle calls to the level that you and your
Clintonite cohort do.

I suspect you're all just pissed that -- deprived of opportunities to score cheap shots on Obama that her friends in the
MSM can fawn over for a week so she can put "Hillary Wins!!!" on hillaryhub -- Clinton is now forced to work harder to
maintain her lead in the polls you hold in sacrosanct reverence.

The fact is, "debates" are only one aspect of the many things a presidential campaign is. Beyond the DNC-sponsored
events, it is every candidate's right and responsibility to determine -- as a matter of strategy -- whether, how, which,
and how many additional debates can help them achieve their goal of getting nominated and then elected.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

This is obviously not your ideal Obama church. Good luck in finding one. Good bye and good riddance.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

It's too bad you decided to be intellectually dishonest.  I said nothing about church or anything of the kind.  But instead most of the comments on here are rather slanderous.  Calling any of the candidates "coward" and such is inappropriate IMO.  

Why not have a discussion on the pros and cons of debates.  What was learned or not.  That's what I'm meaning. Not the disgusting and down right juvenile name calling.  

I do participate on other blogs.  But this particular site is becoming more and more disappointing for intellectual discussion.

by Jalenth 2007-08-18 10:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I'm starting to come to the same conclusion myself.  I used to like to come to this site because there was real debate about substansive issues.  Now it's nothing but poll diaries and hit pieces on Obama.  If I didn't know any better, I'd think that I had come to hillaryis44 instead of My DD.

I've been a Democrat all of my life, and though I knew that we had some nuts on our side, I never would have imagined that ours could be just as obnoxious as those on the right until this site started to look like a left wing version of LGF.

In any case, my friends and I are too busy busting our asses trying to help Obama and grow our local grass roots movement to spend every waking moment trying to tear down Hillary Clinton every day.

by whitbreadale 2007-08-18 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

You know what I just realized , most of the people who make comments like the ones you made are just mad they don't have the site all to themselves anymore to control the message here .

You know sort of like group think , as long as it's bash Hillary Clinton diaries all day it's all well and good , but the tides have turned now , Hillary's numbers of supporters are growing across the country and apparently on this site too and you are pissed off that she has people to defend her now and its no longer a bash Hillary Clinton echo chamber.

Thats how I see it so deal with it.

by lori 2007-08-18 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Exactly.   I lived through TONS of Hillary-bash fests, even way back when there were only few pro-Hillary posters here.  I just went into the bash diaries and corrected misstatements, errors without getting overly personal or taking things to heart.

 This whiny stuff?  Threatening to leave?  Complain how terrible MyDD was?  Never, even when there were 8 Hillary bash diaries in the Diaries list and 5 in the Rec. list.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Threatening to leave?  Whining?  You people need to get a grip.  I don't lose any sleep over the things that I read on this site, so please don't flatter yourself. If I can maintain my subscription to TNR in spite of the presence of Crazy Uncle Marty, I can deal with a bunch second rate wannabes who do nothign but post poll diaries.  Besides, I have actual things to do in actual Democratic politics and I am well aware that this is not the real world.  

by whitbreadale 2007-08-18 03:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

It was a larger point about a collection of Obama posters, not necessarily you, per se.  If you have not seen the "threats to leave" and constant whines "woe be us, what has happened to this site?" (something you participated in in the post I responded to, actually)  you must not have been paying attention to posts here.  

Of course, Obama posters have been attacking Jerome Armstrong vehemently, whose site this actually is.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 11:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

What are you talking about?  I've seem far more Hillary bashing on Daily Kos than here, and I don't ever remember there being a shortage of Hillary supporters on this site making the case for her (well, not so much making a case for her, but constantly pointing out that she was ahead in the polls), just as the Edwards people were constantly supporting their candidate.  There has always been more Obama bashing here than anything, at least in the six months in which I've been coming around.  If anything has changed, it seems that the Edwards element is less in evidence and the site is starting to look more like hillaryis44. In any case, you're one to talk about groupthink.

by whitbreadale 2007-08-18 03:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

This is not your ideal Obama church, we can all agree. I'm kind of surprised all these Obama fans suddently pop up claiming they can no longer stand this site.

Just leave, nobody, nobody is forcing you to stay.

Obama is a typical fraud, he and his supporters want to turn the entire country into a church. Fortunately, he has no chance in winning general election, thanks God.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 11:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Talk to the hand, loser.

by whitbreadale 2007-08-18 03:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I concur..

by rapcetera 2007-08-18 09:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

But I thought he found the debates 'amusing'.

Boy, he can't handle a couple of lovetaps from Hillary and Chris Dodd.  Rudy would eat his liver with fava beans (and a nice Chianti).

by Canaan 2007-08-18 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

All he wants is more lovefest from his followers. LOL. This guy is not ready for prime time. He is a pure media creation.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

WTF?

He still committed to the other 8 debates that the candidates are attending this year. WTF more could you ask for? He gets more debate/invites than all of the candidates put together (including Hillary), all he's saying is that he can't honor all of them simply because he wants to spend more time connecting with voters. What's your problem with that? You folks never read the entire articles. U latch on to small pieces, take them out of context and then u SPIN. Stop the bullshit!

by rapcetera 2007-08-18 09:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

if he was leaving the debates because he looked small next to Hillary he would have withdrawn from the other 8 debates he's committed to this year (with Hillary in attendance). So I think it's you who needs to get a clue.

by rapcetera 2007-08-18 12:15PM | 0 recs
hwc

hwc,

You may want to update the situation. politico has just filed a report.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/080 7/5440.html

The announcement could affect such key Democratic constituencies as the Congressional Black Caucus, Iowa AARP and League of Conservation Voters, campaign sources confirmed.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 08:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I wonder if Obama would agree to more debates if they allowed him to charge a $5 cover at the door like his other campaign events?

by hwc 2007-08-18 09:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

that's a good one. LOL.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 09:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Only if he could add all attendees to his "small donor" list to show how grassrooty the campaign is.  :-)

by georgep 2007-08-18 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

This from a disciple of the candidate who counts as a "supporter" every person who signs up to get emails,
clicks the button for one of her gimmicky little "petitions," or goes to one of her debate-watching parties?

by horizonr 2007-08-18 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Oh yeah?   When or where have I ever done that?  You are making stuff up.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Read the post, George. It says that you, George, are a disciple of the candidate, Clinton -- with me
so far? -- and that it is Clinton "who counts as a 'supporter'," etc., etc.

It is Clinton who is doing the counting. Are you not aware of what your own candidate is doing?

by horizonr 2007-08-18 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

btw, you are abusing the rating system:

Rules:

1. Candidates are fair game

2. Attacking other posters is not fair game

by georgep 2007-08-18 09:35AM | 0 recs
No

A lack of specificity in the guidelines should be not taken as a license to be mean. Even allowing for the increasingly
anti-Obama tenor of the site, there is a greater concentration of unbridled anti-Obama venom in these comments
than I have seen on any diary here in a while. This trend has to be checked.

I stand by every troll rating.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: No

Then almost every one of your posts deverses to be zero rated.  It is silly stuff, which I won't join you in.  But, suit yourself.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 12:26PM | 0 recs
Re: No

How patently absurd.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Sadly, it's people like you georgep, that would make me consider Ralph Nader in the general election because of goosesteppers like yourself, areyouready, lori and others who COMPLETELY turn me off your candidate. That's too bad because I don't want to vote for Nader or sit this election out but Hillarites like yourself are becoming insufferable and unbearable.

Stop acting like kool-aid drinkers and quite possibly I'll consider voting for Hillary.

by Nedsdag 2007-08-18 03:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

As opposed to goosesteppers like yourself who barely exhale at the mere mention of Obama's name?  There are too many people to list who have made a very poor case for Obama, the candidate.  However, I would never make that poor level of posting the basis for my decision to vote or not vote for said candidate.  You do, which is sad on many levels.  For yourself, that is.  Shows illogicalm, shallow reasoning, as if your decision-making process should in any way be impacted by what some people on a blog have to say.  

I could honestly not care less WHO you would "consider" voting for.  If you conscience tells you Nader or Giuliani, go right for it.  Nothing new from many in the Obama contingent on here.

by georgep 2007-08-18 11:54PM | 0 recs
Goosestepping gooseberries

Ever tried gooseberry jam on your toast, George? Quite lovely.

And the gooseberry-noted Sauvignon Blanc from Australia
that I had this weekend? Divine! Absolutely divine!

by horizonr 2007-08-19 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Um "HWC"...please get your facts straight. your comment :

"According to Marc Ambinder, the Obama campaign has circulated a memo stating that it will accept no more invitations to candidate forums where the candidates appear together on the stage due to "scheduling" reasons."

is WRONG! No where did the Obama campaign give a reason citing the candidates "appearing togehter on stage" as an excuse for anything. Stop being so destructive.

by rapcetera 2007-08-18 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Obama's campaign stated that they would consider no more invitations to forums or debates, except those where the candidates appear sequentially instead of together in a debate format.

You do the math.

by hwc 2007-08-18 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

What do YOU think "sequential" means?   It means ONE AFTER THE OTHER, and NOT ON STAGE TOGETHER.   HWC is right, you are wrong.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 09:32AM | 0 recs
And sign a loyalty oath

like at George Bush's pre-screened religious events.

by Canaan 2007-08-18 10:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Looks like moustache Alexora(?) is a real smart strategist. LOL.

by areyouready 2007-08-18 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!

by rapcetera 2007-08-18 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I'm guessing HWC didn't look at Obama's schedule and automatically jumps on Obama as a coward.  FIGURES.  What if one of the debates lands on his Oprah-Obama fundraiser?  Should he drop the fundraiser entirely just to attend the debate?  Your logic in calling Obama a chicken is pathetic hwc, and only goes to show how sad it has gotten around here, how biased and poor the diaries go out as.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-08-18 09:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

C'mon Jeremiah you are going to have to come up with something better than that .

It actual makes him look worse , yeah blow off regular americans  and go attend Oprah Fundraiser .

That would work.

He already has an elitist problem please don't make it worse.

by lori 2007-08-18 10:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Are you trying to say the debates have addressed real problems in a serious manor?  Please.  Please tell me how you're going to solve ALL of America's health care problems in one minute.  BULL SHIT.  Please.  It's the MSM trying to get better ratings.  They don't care about getting a real message from the candidates to real people.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-08-18 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

How many regular Americans want to know how you'd solve America's health care problems in a minute or less?  How many American's want no deliberation on why one is better than the other?  

The idea that these debates equate to "Real Americans" is pathetic.  Nobody would want you to leave out portions of answers based on time restrictions, and people would want deliberation over the issue.  Two things that these don't represent.  

Also, I was making the point that the issue is SCHEDULING CONFLICTS.  There has been NO evidence to provide alternative reasoning.  HWC rants about how Obama is "Chickening out" but there are NO statements to back this RIDICULOUS claim up.  

So please, don't try to turn this into an issue of elitist vs. non-elites.  It's sad that Clinton supporters have been CONSTANTLY avoiding the issue here.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-08-18 11:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

How do debates equate to real Americans?  Have you gone up to people asking how they would solve health care in a minute or less time to speak?  The idea that these debates are to get a real message to real Americans is horse shit.  So please, don't try to make this into Oprah vs. Real Americans.  My arguement was that HWC made this a "Chicken vs. Being brave" issue when it's a scheduling issue and she provided no evidence otherwise.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-08-18 11:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

HWC is a guy, btw.

As for scheduling. If Obama is chicken to face Hillary Clinton, is he going to have the guts to face the Washington press corps if he were President? Or would we have another Commander-in-Chief in hiding, coming out only when he can stage a photo op on the deck of a carrier?

Seriously. Being able to take the heat, think on your feet, and provide coherent answers to the American people under the harsh glare of national spotlight is a pretty important trait for the President of the United States, in my book. That's all part of the "presidential threshold" all candidates must cross.

by hwc 2007-08-18 11:46AM | 0 recs
Try telling the truth

Hillary Clinton doesn't want to be tied to a schedule of endless "debates" any
more than Obama or any other candidate does. He's just the one who had
the sense and courage to say that he refused to be.

Not to mention that the "presidential threshold" has never, ever included
30 -- 40? 50? -- major, all-candidate forums that most people don't even
watch.

You and your cohort are indulging in shameless demagoguery.

by horizonr 2007-08-18 12:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

This isn't a matter of being afraid to debate Hillary as you CONSTANTLY MISGUIDE IT to be.  He has scheduling issues, maybe you don't know this, but the presidential candidates are BUSY.  If you have any evidence to prove otherwise, please share it, because right now you're just flabbing your gums hwc.  

Excuse me, give me a coherent answer on all the things you would do to fix health care in under a minute.  BULL SHIT.  YOU Can't expect a candidate to go through a 10+ page plan on fixing health care in under a minute.  Not seriously at least.  These debates aren't fit to give us a real idea of what the candidates are about.  So when you try to say he's depriving the American people, I say, of what?  The MSM misguides the debates so they aren't worth two cents and some horse dung.  

Please give a coherent answer to my proposed points and/or questions.  Unless you like to dodge like your candidate.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-08-18 02:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Tell me how a candidate can present a complete health care plan in 10 pages. It can't be done. At least not seriously.

by hwc 2007-08-18 02:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

To add a little, Real Americans watch fox news.  So you're arguing it was wrong to not go to those debates?  If not you're being extremely hypocritical.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-08-18 11:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

He has dropped the one or the other forum in the past.  So has Hillary Clinton.  That is not the issue.  The issue is the wholesale refusal to participate in any forum outside of the DNC mandated ones.  That is different from what any of the other candidates are doing.  Nobody is saying "Attend all forums, or else."  There are too many.  Pick and choose the ones that make sense for you.   This is a move in a direction that shows certain issue constituencies (i.e. unions) that they are not that important to Obama.  He can do what he wants, but don't be surprised if he loses some of those groups he ignores to other candidates.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 12:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

"The issue is the wholesale refusal to participate in any forum outside of the DNC mandated ones."

According to A Clinton supporter on here, Obama will be attending debates outside the 5 DNC mandated ones that he has already committed to.  So you are wrong.  It isn't a wholesale refusal.  That or a Clinton supporter has miswritten information.  

"This is a move in a direction that shows certain issue constituencies (i.e. unions) that they are not that important to Obama."

Your attacks are pathetic.  They are important to him.  He has constantly attended union forums, spoken to unions, etc.  He spent a day with a home care worker or whatever that was about, he took time to PROTEST on a picket line.  Of course these unions and possible endorsements are important to him.  To say otherwise is wrong, ignorant, and pathetic.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-08-18 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Stay classy, MYDD.

by Korha 2007-08-18 10:12AM | 0 recs
What a load of crap

Obama does significantly better on raw reaction and non-pundit immediate reaction polls.

CNN: Viewers Agree With Barack on Foreign Policy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCpRZoSEd 2A&mode=user&search=

by Todd Smyth 2007-08-18 10:18AM | 0 recs
Re: What a load of crap

Hey I don't think if he was having a swell time at these debates/forums he will be trying to limit that.

By the way how come after every debate ;

Hillary's numbers go up and his go down or stay flat.

I will volunteer that they felt the debates weren't helping them much thats why they are limiting it.

by lori 2007-08-18 10:26AM | 0 recs
Re: What a load of crap

I will volunteer that presidential candidates are really busy, and they are limiting the debates due to scheduling conflicts.  

by JeremiahTheMessiah 2007-08-18 02:07PM | 0 recs
HWC! Add This Story!

You might want to add this analysis by Steven Stark at Real Clear Politics about how much the Debates are hurting Obama!

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article s/2007/08/the_debates_are_killing_edward .html

by BigBoyBlue 2007-08-18 10:19AM | 0 recs
Re: HWC! Add This Story!

I actually disagreed with the premise of the article: that the debates automatically favor the front-runner. To me, that overlooks the obvious: the debates favor Clinton because she has the experience to think on her feet, a comfort level with issues, the political instincts, and the over all command to seize the opportunities that come her way.

The debates favor Hillary because she doesn't have to hem and haw for half of her 60 seconds before hitting her talking points.

The debates favor Hillary because, when a questioner asks about an immediate summit with Fidel Castro, every bone in her body says "Danger...Florida voters". Just like every bone in Tiger Woods body tells him which way a putt breaks.

That's the advantage of putting in the years under the harsh glare of the national spotlight. If Obama were smart, he'd duck the whole election and come back when he's got the experience to hit major league pitching.

by hwc 2007-08-18 10:51AM | 0 recs
hwc

That's the advantage of putting in the years under the harsh glare of the national spotlight. If Obama were smart, he'd duck the whole election and come back when he's got the experience to hit major league pitching. (hwc)

Right on!  

by Regan 2007-08-18 03:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I read the realclear article.  It's nonsense.  It hurts John Edwards that he comes across as less left-wing than Dennis Kicinich?  I haven't seen a single newsclip of Kicinich so far in this entire campaign.  Edwards is one of the best trial lawyers in  the country, and he can't figure out the debate format?  Please, how ridiculous can it get?

Chris Matthews, who is biased against Hillary, says she was 'majestic' in the same format where Obama blends into the background with Dennis Kicinich.  She goes into the snakepit at YearlyKos, gets double-teamed by Obama and Edwards and her poll numbers go up.

This is why I love Hillary.  She gets in the ring with the toughest competition in the world (Newt Gingrich, John Edwards) and she kicks their ass.  She is a total badass!

Guess what, Barack?  Superstars get double-teamed and still win.  Hillary is a superstar.  Barack is just a good motivational speaker.

It's not the debate format that is hurting Obama and Edwards.  It's HRC.

by Canaan 2007-08-18 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

She is a total badass. That's why she's my girl!

by hwc 2007-08-18 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbeRHzIwF uM

by TarHeel 2007-08-18 11:10AM | 0 recs
I don't understand,

why the whole memo was not included with this diary?  It is very, short-sighted, and also very inaccurate.  I also, am very surprised at some Hillary supporters who are egging this on, especially front page authors.  Which, I felt the diaries for Senator Clinton was great.  Which brings me, why this terribly wrong diary about Senator Obama?  I remember, Mrs. Clinton wanting to limit people in these debates/forums, just so the front runners would have more time to get into the depth of questions.  Which I support, totally.  Also, I remember Mrs. Clinton also refusing some debate/forum appearances due to just want Senator Obama is indicating.  Especially, since the sanctioned DNC debates have already been authorized, etc.  These last minute debates/forums are just that, last minute.  So, while I am on the fence for Mrs. Clinton, I truly feel that you as supporters are doing her injustice.  As well as, some Obama supporters, who are doing the same thing.  Overall, this is very childish and takes away from the good argument and debate about these candidates positions.

by caroline becker 2007-08-18 11:42AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't understand,

I didn't include the full memo because I didn't want to steal Mark Amdinger's scoop. That wouldn't be cool from a journalistic integrity standpoint. He got the scoop; he deserves the hits to the Atlantic Monthly blog.

I provided a link to his blog, where you could have read the full text of Barack Obama waving the white flag and saing "no mas, no mas" to Hillary Clinton.

by hwc 2007-08-18 11:49AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't understand,

I did not see it that way at all, and I am surprised that you do.  After a while, all these debates/forums do not mean anything if you will not get down to the specifics of questions, which none of these debates have produced.  Specifics.  I would like to see a debate of the top candidates, for 90 minutes, with specifics, not sound bites, specifics.  If going forward these forums, debates have produced what we have, thus far, what is the point.  And Obama is doing the correct thing, he has participated in numerous debates/forums, many unscheduled.  When he and the other candidates can concentrate on voters, their questions, in these early states.  This diary is nothing, and I liked your front page piece on Mrs. Clinton.  But to write or not-write, a diary based on what another candidate will do forward and turn it into a hit piece, I would think you better.  I am sittin on the fence for Clinton, but her supporters here does her disservice.

by caroline becker 2007-08-18 12:03PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't understand,

With all due respect, Obama decided to pull out of issue debates unless the debates are sequential.  It is fair to wonder why he decided to do so.  No other candidate did that.  

Just because you disagree with the points made (which is your right) does not mean that you have license to state that posters who find that pullout to be self-serving (I believe he damages himself in debates with flippant statements that later come back to haunt him) as doing a disservice.  If it were up to Obama posters nothing can ever be said about the guy, which makes no sense at all.  To me this shows a serious problem.  The Obama camp knew it was going to get some grief over that decision (look at other blogs talking about this) but calculated the pros and cons.   Please don't YOU do a disservice by bashing posters who just voice their honest opinions on this subject.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 12:14PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't understand,

Mr. georgep, you do not like Mr. Obama, period.  There is nothing that he can do, period, that you will like.  My statement stands and yes, I am surprised that you are going along with this banter, since you are such a good, solid writer.  

You seem to FORGET, that Mrs. Clinton wanted to stick with the original DNC Format but was pounded on, not by Mr. Obama but the other lower tier.  

My take is what new is coming out of these debates/forums?  With so many special interests groups you can easily have one a day, if you like.

Why not a full two hours on Iraq, Healthcare.  Delve into these candidates "plans" and get specifics?  I do not see anyone running to that format, which is the format that I and many others would like.

I do not expect Mrs. Clinton to state anything about this, because this was her opinion from the onset, and she was RIGHT.  There have been 19 forums, 8 debates, with 13 left until January.

Now if that is not enough for anyone, what is?  And besides, the overall public will be paying attention to these debates then.

And all the candidates need to be in the early states and states of February 5th.  I don't think the overall public will be bothered about debates, it is only the "political junkies" who are mussing up steam.  And this too, shall pass.

Mrs. Clinton was right, they should have just stuck with the sanctioned DNC Debates.

by caroline becker 2007-08-18 01:14PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't understand,

Well, suit yourself.  Your "statement" makes no sense.  I have to believe that you are NOT a brandnew poster who just signed up here to get involved in this (with the chiding raised index finger-metaphorically speaking) but a reincarnation of an existing poster.  Either someone who was re-banned (has anyone seen iamready?) or a second username.   I just can't take this stuff seriously.  

by georgep 2007-08-18 10:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Also, the congressional black caucus.  This is the organization in conjuction with Fox News, that all the candidates said, pass.  So, let's be clear on that point.

by caroline becker 2007-08-18 11:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

Shame.

by TennesseeGurl 2007-08-18 12:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates
To the person who started this thread:
If you are a John Edwards' supporters, let me remind you that your $1200 haircut candidate has absolutely no chance of winning the nomination, and his career will be over once he finishes in 3rd place. By February, he will have been twice a loser, who benefited off Katrina victims.
by kingsbridge77 2007-08-18 12:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

No chance at all- and I'm counting the days until Feb. when finally the Hedge Fund hypocrite is "finished" for good.

by reasonwarrior 2007-08-18 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

If I started a Hillary is a coward diary for her Iraq war vote how would you Hillarybots like it?

by nevadadem 2007-08-18 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

We probably would not think much about it because we've already seen them too many times.

by reasonwarrior 2007-08-18 02:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

People should be ashamed for the name calling. Disagree with the man but name the calling is foolishness. The sad thing is that some people go from website to website using the same post and the same name. Use your hateful energy and try to do something positive. Go work volunteer at an inner city school, help end rural poverty or  volunteer on a campaign.

by TennesseeGurl 2007-08-18 12:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I don't know- Obama seems to have hurt himself more lately in his interviews and statements after the debates than during it.  I think that will continue with or without.

Personally, I'm tired myself of trying to catch up on them and there are so many, I'm missing out on some of them.

by reasonwarrior 2007-08-18 12:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

What a pussy! Even Dennis Kucinich hasn't done this yet, or even Mike GRavel and hey are both broke as hell.

by bsavage 2007-08-18 01:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

No "hope" for Barack Obama.  What a coward.  I guess Axelrod got tired of having to cover for him everytime he sticks his foot in his mouth, which is every time he takes part in a debate.

Go home Barack.  You don't have what it takes to be President.

by Regan 2007-08-18 03:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates
I can't imagine why the Obama supporters would get defensive over this.
If the Hillary supporters think its a bad idea for Obama to pull out of some forums then they should celebrate as it helps their candidate.
I happen to think pulling out is brilliant. Obamas promise was to bring some of the 50% or so of the people who don't vote into the system. He passed the first test by getting many of those non voters to donate to him. Obama will eventually get about 30% of the traditional democratic vote. He'll need to bring new people into the system to top Hillary. Glad to see him limit the circus show and concentrate on the bringing new voters into the system.
by joachim 2007-08-18 04:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama chickens out of debates

I just came back from canvasing in NH today and spoke to over a dozen Democratic and Independent voters.  All but 2 were undecided.  None mentioned seeing any debates.  Some have read the headlines, but few bother with the stories that follow.  The voters there are used to and want direct contact with the candidates.  It seems to me that Obama's decision is a sound one.  Let the other candidates continue to hold these 60 second debates.  Without Barack it will become even more boring than it already is.  Oh, and calling him names, that doesn't seem to appeal to the average voter either.

by wizinit 2007-08-18 04:35PM | 0 recs

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