I am a little (pleasantly) surprised by what the speech failed to address- the discontent on the populist right in the Republican party. The people who are mad enough at Bush over immigration to make waves know the issue very well. They will see threw the dog and pony show the gaurd deployment is. The two glaring omissions that will have them up in arms are the lack of any language calling on the Mexican government to take action, and the absence of a crack down on employers that provide jobs to illegal immigrants. The message is clear to people who watch the issue closely, Bush doesn't want to upset the business part of his coalition, and is only willing to make symbolic gestures to appease the part of his base that is drifting away. That has to be good news for us.
I completely agree with you on the reasons the Kaine campaign wasn't hurt by the Kilgore smear. I would add that the hysterical tone the death penalty smears took on later in the race (the hitler comparison) gave voters the sense that he was really flailing for anything as his campaign went down in flames.
being in congress seems to be a huge plus for the vp slot. looking back over the last three decades:
cheney-11 years in the house, leadership position
gore- served in both chambers of congress
quayle-haha shouldnt matter but he was a senator
bush- served in congress
mondale- senator
some people think this is because campaigns want some kind of balance on the ticket. I suppose that is possible, but I personally think very few people vote based on a the vp candidate. What I think gets these type of people on the bottom half of the ticket is that the guy at the top (in this case 4 out 5 of their bosses were ex governors) realizes he needs someone that has experience steering legislation through congress.
let me first say I sympathize with you, because I cringe when people just repeat the "senators cant win,period" line over and over. I think that shows a lack of thought.
However, there are reasons that governors make better candidates, and I think you may have overlooked them in your post. Here are 3 thoughts that come to mind:
1.While it is true that HW was the only VP in recent history to be elected (and he lost reelection) i think the example supports the polemic against senators as candidates instead of debunk it. The reason I think this is because in the modern american political dynamic senators and vps are somewhat similar in that they are washington insiders.
Yes, pre-Carter governors had a lousy track record. However, political climate may have much to do with this. From FDR up through Watergate, Americans seemed to believe much more in what the republicans have since demonized as "big government". There was a sense that goverment could do good things for people and it was a good idea for an expereinced washington mind to be in the white house. Vietnam, the social chaos of the 60s, and then watergate soured many people on the washington establishment. We all know the common-man-outsider thing is bs, but it has had a hand in electing every president since watergate with the exception of HW. Its not a mistake that all the succesful candidates have tailored themselves to this outsider approach.
You are right to point out that governors also have a political track record. However, the very nature of their job in the executive branch as opposed to the senators legislative role gives them less to shoot at. They do not have to do the horse trading and compromising that often sinks other candidates. While they may take the blame for failures, as the name that signs the bills they are also able to flaunt credit for successes.
It is by no means set in stone that a senator can not go to the white house, but there are legitimate reasons why it is more difficult than for a governor. That said, we should ultimately pick a candidate based on his or her merits.
yeah I think Forrester and Schundler are both done as far as statewide campaigns. It was kind of funny watching David Rebovich who is like the ubernerd/guru of nj politics on election night. When an anchor asked him if Forrester had any future potential he tried to politely say no but it came out sounding like, "uh....well....hm.....it'd be very difficult. Well if he would be willing to self finance again....um.....maybe a seat in congress?" haha that guy is over.
One thing that does kind of worry me a little is that the next two senate rounds in NJ may have strong Republican candidates. Tom Kean jr. looks to be a formidable opponent next year. It just means we have to do our work, but I don't think its going to be another Forrester type situation
that with the unquestionable divebombing of Bush's credibility, it will become easier and more acceptable for the next field of Republican presidential hopefuls to distance themselves from his failures and get away with it. Earlier, Republicans could whip their people into line claiming that the 04 election was more important than individuals' particular issues. And when Bush was popular there was no incentive to break rank for other Republicans. However, we are now in a position where ambitious Republicans will conciously distance themselves from this unpopular white house and there is not much to stop them unless we take the suggestions given above. Can you imagine the tragedy of an-as-of-yet-relatively-unknown GOP governor running for president in 08 vowing to "fix whats wrong in washington". These are things everyone should start doing. good work.
I agree both are good. I grew up a few towns from Holt's district, and I remember he had the best bumperstickers of all time, "my congressman is a rocket scientist". I would love to see him in the US Senate.
I think we agree that Bush will not be serendipitously bailed out the way Reagan was. Where we disagree is that they are equally as bad. I can't believe I am sticking up for Reagan, and I am not really, just making the point that Bush is worse. There are many specific issues one could point to where he was bad-but-not-as-horrible, but I think the most telling thing is how many republicans from that generation have either criticized the Bush team or been notably absent in supporting its policies. But still we are arguing over something of little importance. The point I was trying to make is that he is in a very tough spot that he will not easily get out of, so it is imperative that Democrats fill the void before another Republican emerges and steals the opportunity
with the recent horrible poll numbers Bush has been getting I have heard a few pundits (mostly right wingers but not exclusively) bring up second term scandals from which a president has rebounded and make the claim that Bush can do the same. The explanation goes something like this: reagan/clinton had scandals early in their second terms, iran-contra/monica. Their numbers dropped despite having been recently re-elected. When things were looking bad they pulled themeselves out of the hole by going abroad and doing things that appealed to Americans across the political spectrum, Reagan with arms control/end of the cold war and Clinton with Mid East peace and walking India/Pakistan back from the brink of nuclear war.
Can Bush regain the ground he has lost? Of course its possible, but its extremely unlikely. Especially when one considers how he would manage to pull it off by following the script above. Two huge obstacles:
A)The two others presidents were not in situations in which the general direction of the country was going poorly. I am sure most of us would have been unhappy with Reagan in the 80s but the general sense was not that Iran-Contra was just the last thing to pile onto a colossal pile of failures. Similarly, America in the 90s under Clinton was a pretty okay place, and people were not desperately seeking a reason to stick it to him. Contrast this with W's current situation. The ongoing debacle in Iraq, tangible revulsion against the US throughout the world, an economy that brags of growth but gives little to common people, the Katrina fiasco, the SCOTUS issue. The leak and the controversy it has provoked are just what has put the administration on the brink of irrelevance, but there are many things that brought it there. Tough hole to dig out of.
B)Reagan and Clinton achieved success abroad, but it was not out of the blue. It was the culmination of things that had been happening since their first terms. Reagan had always held a personal distaste for nuclear weapons and the decline of the USSR in the short-medium term had been predicted as far back as the Carter administration by Brzezinski. Clinton's brokering of peace in both Northern Ireland and the Middle East began early in his term. When you look out at the next three years, it is tough to see a foreign policy saving grace for Bush. Even if a miracle occurs and things straighten out in Iraq tomorrow, the American public already thinks it was not worth it in terms of blood treasure. Anyone with a modocum of common sense knows the entire region is teetering toward instability, and if the Sharon goverment falls (or even if it doesn't) the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is VERY far from providing the photo-op symbolism peace that Bush would need.
If Democrats are smart, they will capitalize on this and go for the kill. I can honestly say I don't fear Bush reclaiming his powerful position of a few years ago. What I do fear is a lack of Democratic intiative that opens a window for another right wing Republican, one with more tact and a cleaner resume, to sneak in and command national attention on his way to the white house in 2008
I might be wrong, but I just don't see her staying in long enough to make it an issue. A few weeks ago there was a blurb on politicalwire about how she was looking for a way out of the race so she could run for NYAG because the support for her senate bid has been so soft.
Its clear that if her campaign defies all logic and takes off the national RWNM will lick their lips at taking shots at Hillary Clinton, but as you pointed out its a two way street this time. Still, I am pretty sure Hillary walks away with this one.
I am glad Edwards admitted he was wrong. I think that was the right thing to do, however it kind of got me thinking... by admitting the mistake in voting and co-sponsoring (!)the IWR he (or whoever is doing the admitting) automatically draws attention to the resolution itself. This hurts that particular candidate in two ways. A) it high lights the fact they were wrong on a HUGE issue and B)it exposes them to the, "if it were up to John Edwards Saddam would still be torturing innocent people" line of attack that we all know is BS but still carries a certain sting. John Edwards admitted he was wrong, good for him the right thing to do. Doesn't make him my pick for the nominee.
Someone mentioned this upthread from here, Warner has a huge advantage in not having cast a vote on the IWR or having staked out a major position. This will allow him to enter the Iraq debate(if he is the nominee) from an advanced position with hopefully a coherent strategy on moving forward that emphasizes how to get out. I am not sure what they have on public record but I think this advantage would also apply to Vilsack and Richardson. Personally, I am not crazy about those two but its something to think about.
I agree McCain would be a formidable general election opponent but I just don't think it will happen. The liabilities he has in a primary are absolutely daunting. But... something not too many people have picked up on is his age/aging. Take a look at McCain now versus a few short years ago. Everyone gets older, but he looks soooo worn down. Add to that that he will be one of the oldest people to seek the White House and you might wonder if people will want to vote for someone like that. Maybe they will, I don't know, I am just saying 3 years from now it might be a factor.
As for Wes Clark denying him the military vote...I wouldn't be so sure. He might, and I hope he does if this scenario comes to pass but its not something you can just assume. McCain may never have been a general, but he draws more war-hero sympathy than Clark. Also, it is no secret that much of the military community was not crazy about Clark as a general. Will this matter? I have no idea, but its somethign to think about. Clark would still be one of my top choices for the nomination but I think its foolish to assume a military career washes away all sorts of potential liabilities.
I don't dislike Hillary and she is not at the bottom of my list for the nomination, although certainly not at the top. But her recent unity call strikes me as the epitome of an opportunistic political move. Admirable in a way, I suppose. She gets to look like the good guy by telling boogieman Al From to let up on the party's base. At the same time what does unity mean? It means stop in-house debate of any serious consequence...which prolongs the status quo. I am sure on the merits people will disagree, but as for the facts on the ground view... this status quo puts Hillary as the nominee. If her call for unity is adopted, that means no other candidate will be able to knock her off.
I just clicked that I would support Bayh if he were the nominee, and to my astonishment 31% of respondents had clicked that they would not.
There are many problems I have with Bayh for sure, but I would certainly vote for him. That isn't the point of my post though. Although this is MYDD which slants left and this isn't a scientific poll, seeing that number just now was pretty shocking. If a candidate is so unpopular that a third of the people on a democratic website would not vote for him in a general election, he has serious issues to deal with.
jeromearmstrong Our Polarized and Money-Driven Congress: Created Over 25 Years By Republicans (and Quickly Imitated by Democrats http://bit.ly/ewXlXI #bblue
I am a little (pleasantly) surprised by what the speech failed to address- the discontent on the populist right in the Republican party. The people who are mad enough at Bush over immigration to make waves know the issue very well. They will see threw the dog and pony show the gaurd deployment is. The two glaring omissions that will have them up in arms are the lack of any language calling on the Mexican government to take action, and the absence of a crack down on employers that provide jobs to illegal immigrants. The message is clear to people who watch the issue closely, Bush doesn't want to upset the business part of his coalition, and is only willing to make symbolic gestures to appease the part of his base that is drifting away. That has to be good news for us.
cheney-11 years in the house, leadership position
gore- served in both chambers of congress
quayle-haha shouldnt matter but he was a senator
bush- served in congress
mondale- senator
some people think this is because campaigns want some kind of balance on the ticket. I suppose that is possible, but I personally think very few people vote based on a the vp candidate. What I think gets these type of people on the bottom half of the ticket is that the guy at the top (in this case 4 out 5 of their bosses were ex governors) realizes he needs someone that has experience steering legislation through congress.
However, there are reasons that governors make better candidates, and I think you may have overlooked them in your post. Here are 3 thoughts that come to mind:
1.While it is true that HW was the only VP in recent history to be elected (and he lost reelection) i think the example supports the polemic against senators as candidates instead of debunk it. The reason I think this is because in the modern american political dynamic senators and vps are somewhat similar in that they are washington insiders.
- Yes, pre-Carter governors had a lousy track record. However, political climate may have much to do with this. From FDR up through Watergate, Americans seemed to believe much more in what the republicans have since demonized as "big government". There was a sense that goverment could do good things for people and it was a good idea for an expereinced washington mind to be in the white house. Vietnam, the social chaos of the 60s, and then watergate soured many people on the washington establishment. We all know the common-man-outsider thing is bs, but it has had a hand in electing every president since watergate with the exception of HW. Its not a mistake that all the succesful candidates have tailored themselves to this outsider approach.
- You are right to point out that governors also have a political track record. However, the very nature of their job in the executive branch as opposed to the senators legislative role gives them less to shoot at. They do not have to do the horse trading and compromising that often sinks other candidates. While they may take the blame for failures, as the name that signs the bills they are also able to flaunt credit for successes.
It is by no means set in stone that a senator can not go to the white house, but there are legitimate reasons why it is more difficult than for a governor. That said, we should ultimately pick a candidate based on his or her merits.One thing that does kind of worry me a little is that the next two senate rounds in NJ may have strong Republican candidates. Tom Kean jr. looks to be a formidable opponent next year. It just means we have to do our work, but I don't think its going to be another Forrester type situation
Can Bush regain the ground he has lost? Of course its possible, but its extremely unlikely. Especially when one considers how he would manage to pull it off by following the script above. Two huge obstacles:
A)The two others presidents were not in situations in which the general direction of the country was going poorly. I am sure most of us would have been unhappy with Reagan in the 80s but the general sense was not that Iran-Contra was just the last thing to pile onto a colossal pile of failures. Similarly, America in the 90s under Clinton was a pretty okay place, and people were not desperately seeking a reason to stick it to him. Contrast this with W's current situation. The ongoing debacle in Iraq, tangible revulsion against the US throughout the world, an economy that brags of growth but gives little to common people, the Katrina fiasco, the SCOTUS issue. The leak and the controversy it has provoked are just what has put the administration on the brink of irrelevance, but there are many things that brought it there. Tough hole to dig out of.
B)Reagan and Clinton achieved success abroad, but it was not out of the blue. It was the culmination of things that had been happening since their first terms. Reagan had always held a personal distaste for nuclear weapons and the decline of the USSR in the short-medium term had been predicted as far back as the Carter administration by Brzezinski. Clinton's brokering of peace in both Northern Ireland and the Middle East began early in his term. When you look out at the next three years, it is tough to see a foreign policy saving grace for Bush. Even if a miracle occurs and things straighten out in Iraq tomorrow, the American public already thinks it was not worth it in terms of blood treasure. Anyone with a modocum of common sense knows the entire region is teetering toward instability, and if the Sharon goverment falls (or even if it doesn't) the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is VERY far from providing the photo-op symbolism peace that Bush would need.
If Democrats are smart, they will capitalize on this and go for the kill. I can honestly say I don't fear Bush reclaiming his powerful position of a few years ago. What I do fear is a lack of Democratic intiative that opens a window for another right wing Republican, one with more tact and a cleaner resume, to sneak in and command national attention on his way to the white house in 2008
Its clear that if her campaign defies all logic and takes off the national RWNM will lick their lips at taking shots at Hillary Clinton, but as you pointed out its a two way street this time. Still, I am pretty sure Hillary walks away with this one.
Someone mentioned this upthread from here, Warner has a huge advantage in not having cast a vote on the IWR or having staked out a major position. This will allow him to enter the Iraq debate(if he is the nominee) from an advanced position with hopefully a coherent strategy on moving forward that emphasizes how to get out. I am not sure what they have on public record but I think this advantage would also apply to Vilsack and Richardson. Personally, I am not crazy about those two but its something to think about.
As for Wes Clark denying him the military vote...I wouldn't be so sure. He might, and I hope he does if this scenario comes to pass but its not something you can just assume. McCain may never have been a general, but he draws more war-hero sympathy than Clark. Also, it is no secret that much of the military community was not crazy about Clark as a general. Will this matter? I have no idea, but its somethign to think about. Clark would still be one of my top choices for the nomination but I think its foolish to assume a military career washes away all sorts of potential liabilities.
There are many problems I have with Bayh for sure, but I would certainly vote for him. That isn't the point of my post though. Although this is MYDD which slants left and this isn't a scientific poll, seeing that number just now was pretty shocking. If a candidate is so unpopular that a third of the people on a democratic website would not vote for him in a general election, he has serious issues to deal with.