Why I love the netroots

by donnie, Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 02:00:11 PM EST

RESURFACING ...
(Tuesday Afternoon, California)

Hi there. As my granmother used to say, "Bless your heart!" I had no idea that my MyDD posting on Sunday would get create such a ruckus. OK. I do apologize for not responding earlier. Sincerely. And (not so sincerely) I proudly wear the title "king of the burning dog poop" bestowed upon me. Plus, I now have my first scandal. Thank you all for this.

I have been traveling and in the last two days have only spent about an hour on a computer. Too bad that my blackberry does not handle the blogs well. So let me take up the challenge of all your great responses over the next few hours, so stay tuned ...

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flaming bag of dog poop
bonus points for hiding and watching are achieved:

Leave the sack on the front porch, light it on fire (be careful!), and ring the doorbell then run like the wind! If you can run to a spot where you can't be seen like a neighbor's bush this would be even better since you can see the reaction of your subject as he opens the door, spot the fire, stomps it out (preferably with slippers) and then notices the crap is all over the bottom of his slippers and porch.

Netroots: check your shoes...

by Bob Brigham 2005-01-04 02:04PM | 0 recs
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Why the attitude blogswarm?
Fowler has done more than most just by stopping by. I don't think he committed to a rapid response by putting up a diary.

We don't have to lay down a red carpet, but a little bit of common everyday manners doesn't seem like too much to ask either.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-04 02:24PM | 0 recs
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the pro-Dean attack machine
I've lurked for a long time on the blogosphere and have only recently begun posting. I've noticed that whenever someone or something in competition with Dean or a Dean idea gains the slightest bit of currency or following on a blog, many (mindfully, not all) of the old DFA acolytes swarm and attack that someone or something. Notice the flood of negative attacks against Donnie Fowler that have appeared within the last 24-48 hours. Jeez, someone on dailykos launched an invective against fowler claiming that he shouldn't be DNC chair 'cause he supposedly doesn't know how to post using HTML links. WTF?? Why in the heck don't some of you justlighten up. As far as I can tell, Howard Brush Dean himself hasn't posted on a blog anywhere in months, and whenever he does it has all the authenticity and life of a mediocre congressional form letter. Rosenberg puts up thoughtful posts on his own blog but he hasn't made any substantial effort to engage in true discussion with bloggers and blogreaders. Fowler is just one man with some interesting ideas, he doesn't have a professional paid staff (as do Dean and Rosenberg) to chat with the blogosphere all day. He doesn't deserve to be treated like a Republican senator or some such.
by bi66er 2005-01-04 02:59PM | 0 recs
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Re: the pro-Dean attack machine
I love all of these newbies backing Fowler, the ol' if you can't make it fake it, eh?
by Bob Brigham 2005-01-04 03:03PM | 0 recs
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Re: the pro-Dean attack machine
>I love all of these newbies backing Fowler, the ol' if you can't make it fake it, eh?

Pssst...your elitism is showing...

by bi66er 2005-01-04 03:12PM | 0 recs
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Re: the pro-Dean attack machine
I'm not concerned about elitism showing, I'm too busy trying to clean the dog crap off my porch.
by Bob Brigham 2005-01-04 03:39PM | 0 recs
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Re: the pro-Dean attack machine
I don't know why you consider juvenile feces humor persuasive. I'm not sure if you are supporting Dean or Rosenberg, but you aren't doing yourself or your candidate any favors.
by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-04 03:57PM | 0 recs
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Re: the pro-Dean attack machine
I'm not for anyone. I'm for reform and I'm strongly opposed to a chump as DNC Chair. I don't understand why you are more concerned about how I blogged the scandal than you are about the fact that Fowler has shown a complete lack of understanding netroots communication. Giving people jobs because their daddy held the job is something the Republicans do, not the Democrats (or democrats). Fowler, like Roemer, like Frost, would be a disaster. This is something that needs to be discusssed before the election so I don't feel bad no longer raising money for the DNC if any of the stooges win.
by Bob Brigham 2005-01-04 04:10PM | 0 recs
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Re: the pro-Dean attack machine
I've read your arguments and will consider them. Maybe Fowler is a chump and maybe he's not. Maybe he doesn't have a sophisticated understanding of netroots communication. Maybe he's capable of learning and maybe he's not. All I'm saying is give the hysteria a rest and give Fowler the common courtesy of allowing him to make his own case.

bi66er is right. There's no reason to treat Fowler with the disrespect you are demonstrating. Feces humor is not persuasive. Grant the rest of us the benefit of the doubt, that we are capable of reaching an informed and mature decision on our own, without excessive badgering.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-04 04:20PM | 0 recs
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Re: the pro-Dean attack machine
The problem is that this is a campaign going on in real-time and none of us have votes. It isn't like we can just ask questions, hear all sides of the issue and then decide where we stand in February.

The real action is going on behind the scenes as we speak and I think it is crazy that Fowler is going around talking about how we knows the secret of internet campaigning. He doesn't. He can't even format a hyperlink.

The DNC members come here for the cattle call. I think it is important that Fowler be exposed when they visit.

The status quo candidates are dangerous, but if one of them wins, nobody will be expecting any reform and so the activists will invest time and money in the non-party organizations. The scary thing about Fowler is that he claims he has the answers when he doesn't even know the questions. The last thing we need is a faux-reform Chair. So yes, I'm going concerned about Donnie Fowler and I will do my part as an activist to focus on reform.

I think emptywheel brings up an important point:

I'm getting more and more convinced that Fowler is a geuine trojan horse candidate. "Tell them what they want to hear. It doesn't matter whether you deliver or not--you'll have POWER, do you hear me????"

I mean, there is no evidence he can do the things he has in his platform. I've hired before. I've seen puffed resumes. This is one.


by Bob Brigham 2005-01-04 04:54PM | 0 recs
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Those are all good arguments
I still don't understand your fascination with feces jokes, why either you or ttagaris thinks it is persuasive and why you don't trust anybody to evaluate the evidence and come to a rational decision.

I am perfectly aware that the real race is going on behind the scenes. I think most of us in the MyDD community understand that all we are seeing are the ripples on the surface of the scumpond.

I don't see a whole lot of broad based support here or anywhere else. If he has support behind the scenes, Dean, Rosenberg and the other candidates are going to have to compete behind the scenes. My concern is with a post I recall that suggested the final choice would probably be a compromise choice who could displease everybody the least.

Blogswarm. I am not even arguing with you. Only your tactics. One attraction MyDD has for me is that Chris and Jerome have set up a fascinating learning experience in political action. Let Donnie Fowler give the MyDD community his best shot. Give us a chance to get some experience and understanding about how the process works -- and how it doesn't work. Don't presume the rest of us are too politically naive to reach a sound decision.

MyDD isn't just a blog, it's an educational experience in political activism. Trust the process and let everybody participate in their own way. Most of all, chill a little bit friend. There's no reason to panic just because Fowler wants to try his act out.

Let me repeat. You've made good arguments. We may not all agree, but we do understand them. Give us a little credit and please ... leave the feces jokes behind.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-04 06:48PM | 0 recs
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Re: Those are all good arguments
Yes, MyDD is a wonderful, very special place. But as a blog, I don't think you can limit it as an education experience.

Fowler isn't here as an education experience, he's here because he's been telling all of the DNC members that he is the netroots guy and he wants to talk about how he is posting on blogs. He didn't come here to interact, he came here to post an ad. He's not trying his act out, he's showing it off.

As for using the "bag of dog poop" theme I only repeated it after I realized that it is an apt analogy for candidates who post and run. And it is. Donnie Fowler is even referring to himself as the "king of the burning dog poop" -- it is the best description available for candidates doing a post and run.

When I write here it isn't just for the sake of the people who come here 10 times a day -- although I love most of you. But it is also for the sake of the people who come here once. Especially if they come during the next 5 weeks and happen to have membership in the DNC.

by Bob Brigham 2005-01-04 07:03PM | 0 recs
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In fairness
My post, which was at Kos, was not meant to be an attack on Donnie.

The ding-dong-ditch analogy was used to illustrate the differences between one-way communcation methods of the past and the potential that lies within the HTML code of the Internet(s).

It so happens that candidate Fowler's post, and subsequent comments, led me to the analogy, but the point remains as desribed above -- the potential of two-way mass communication.  And in my mind, still remains the point.

Hope that clears things up.

Tim

by Tim Tagaris 2005-01-04 07:39PM | 0 recs
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Re: the pro-Dean attack machine
I'm more worried about this guy than I am about Donnie Fowler.
by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-04 07:06PM | 0 recs
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Re: the pro-Dean attack machine
wayward isn't running for Chair.
by Bob Brigham 2005-01-04 07:13PM | 0 recs
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Donnie Fowler's new website
If anybody is interested Change the Party is Donnie's website and he also has a blog. I haven't spent any time there, but he appears to be answering questions on his own blog.

Rosenberg has a website New Democrat Network that also has a blog. It looks to me like Rosenberg primarily has staff or guest bloggers posting on his blog. I didn't see any personal responses from Rosenberg. I just spent a few minutes there as well.

by Gary Boatwright 2005-01-04 04:07PM | 0 recs
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thank you, donnie
considering i was the one who unintentionally lit that little fire, i feel compelled to comment on this thread.

first, i do hope you took my comments "as is".  i was certainly not trying to knock you or belittle your efforts at reaching out to us.  like i said previously, i think it's great that you're here.

perhaps this is what you might not understand about the whole blogging thing (and forgive me if you do get it, ok?).  a big part of why this blogging thing works is the two-way communication.  anyone can post their thoughts and get damned near instant feedback.  and that interactive dialogue can in many cases results in some amazing ideas.  what we got from you the other day was a "hit and run" post.  i'm sure you didn't mean to leave that impression, as blogiquette is a learned behavior.  if you're going to hit and run, let us know.  close your post with "hey guys, i'm going to be away from the computer for two days, but i'll read the comments and follow up later".  it's simple human consideration, and that ties in with what i said about all these nicknames having real people behind them.  

beyond that, i meant what i said about feeling like an ATM machine.  i think that many people are feeling burned by the last cycle.  most of us preferred an alternate candidate, then we sucked it up and tried to play ball during the election.  and in hindsight, we can kinda see how "the party" used us like ATMs.  they blew smoke up our asses when they said "they'd fight for us", so i hope you can understand that some of us are very wary of what's being said by the DNC contenders.  for all we know you could be blowing smoke up our asses as well.

but in conclusion, i for one am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.  follow up on that sales pitch with some concrete plans.  follow up on our questions.  try to find some time - even if it's just a little - to interact with us.  get real with us, donnie, that's all we're asking.  thanks for listening.

by annatopia 2005-01-04 05:04PM | 0 recs
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Re: thank you, donnie
The point about the ATM is so on the mark.  One of the biggest mistakes Dems made startegically this year (and there were some big ones) was treating the internet like an atm - not a place to communicate in a meaningful way.  The idea that you send an email...get money, like magic is foolish.  Meanwhile Republicans are going to figure this out and beat us over the head with it...

There are a bunch of people who get this and are trying to link the systems.  And there are some people tearing them down for trying.

by fightforamerica 2005-01-04 07:36PM | 0 recs
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Re: thank you, donnie
You might enjoy this piece about fundraising on-line.

Take a look.

Tim

by Tim Tagaris 2005-01-04 07:43PM | 0 recs
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Re: thank you, donnie
They already have. Follow these two links from Jacob Neilsen, lord high guru of all things in web usability. The latter especially says it all...

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20040920.html

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20040920_lastweek.html

by ElitistJohn 2005-01-04 08:45PM | 0 recs
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Re: thank you, donnie
You are kind to elaborate, but certainly did not need to.  I have written a lot since the election and tried to put it down in a rather lengthy fourteen-pager that you can find on my website.  I hope it helps put some meat on the bone.

http://www.changetheparty.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=42

by donnie 2005-01-04 10:48PM | 0 recs
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look at that, a hyperlink!
take that, blogswarm!  (kidding of course)

thanks for responding, donnie, and thanks for taking my comments in the spirit with which they were given.  i'll find some time to read through your manifesto today and offer feedback later on.  

just so you know where i'm coming from, i am supporting howard dean for the DNC position at this time.  however, the reason i'm interested in speaking with you is because i don't know much about the other DNC contenders, and if howard doesn't get the chairmanship i hope to be comfortable with (and able to support) the person who does.  

that being said, i'm also not the kind of person who thinks that if howard doesn't win the world will end.  on the contrary, it seems to me that there are several good contenders who have the vision to lead and transform the party.  when you get right down to it, that's what i'm really concerned with and anyone who "gets it" will be just fine with me.  if you truly "get it", then you'll have my support if you're elected.

(now bear with me, this is going to be long)

the only other thing i hope you'll think about is the role that the national party will play in nurturing the new activists who joined the party this year.  let me give you an example.  my first experience vounteering for the party was back in 91/92 (austin, tx).  i registered voters and canvassed on behalf of bill clinton.  i did the same in 96 (fort worth, tx), but in 2000 i sat it out thinking "no way in hell is america going to elect my idiot governor" (oh, and by then i was fairly disgusted by the corporate influence on the democratic party so i voted nader knowing it wouldn't matter here).  haha, silly me; i underestimated the stupidity of the electorate.  when bush won, i vowed i'd do everything in my power to see that he was defeated in 2004.  

then 9-11 happened and my god did the dems roll over for bush!  do you remember what a lame duck he was before 9-11?  anyway, i was so frustrated by the dc dem's capitulation that i almost sat this one out as well.  but then howard came along and oh my god, someone was saying what i was thinking!  someone was calling the dc dems out for being appeasers.  his speech at the dnc winter gathering was a "come to jeebus" moment for me.  here was a man who had a spine, who wasn't afraid to stand up for those democratic principals we hold dear... anyway.  so i jumped onboard the dean train pretty early (august 2002) and rode it 'till the end of the line.  i had a real hard time backing kerry but sucked it up and did it anyway.  i ran for - and was elected - precinct chair, and have since done my best to stay involved locally.

however what i see at the local level disturbs me.  my county's democratic party didn't do squat until two months before the november election! we weren't even blockwalking or phone banking until early october. they also run their office on a strictly-volunteer basis, and i think there are only one or two paid staffers here in tarrant county.  our county chair is a good guy and a good democrat, but he's a lawyer full time and therefore doesn't have much time to devote to party building.  the people on his volunteer staff are also full time workers at other jobs or retirees who don't want a change from the status quo.  basically what i'm saying is that nobody down here has the time to devote themselves full time to party building.  and when our office is run by volunteers who have no authority to get anything done, well, nothing ever gets done.  it's like the party goes dormant between elections, and we cannot continue to operate like that if we ever expect to start winning again in tarrant county.   on top of that, we are severly lacking technology-wise.  our county website is crap (hasn't even been updated since november), our database - oh god don't get me started - sucks, etc etc.  basically donnie, we need some serious help down here.  i hope that you will try and help rebuild the state parties (and of course, measure their results and hold them accountable when they fuck up).  anyway, sorry for the rant; i'm just real frustrated with things down here.  i'm sick of losing, that's all.  

by annatopia 2005-01-05 07:42AM | 0 recs
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damned train of thought...
and naturally i didn't really make my point.  my point was do you have a plan to help us newbies (and i do consider myself a newbie because even though i've volunteered before, i've never been this deeply involved) stay involved?  it's hard to stay motivated to build my local party when so little resources are actually devoted to party building.  i hope that makes sense.
by annatopia 2005-01-05 08:17AM | 0 recs
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Where does Fowler fit?
Anyone?  In the big reform game that the Dems need, where does he fit?

Of course, everyone is squacking for reform now.  But, how do they plan to do it?

I'm open to hearing the plan, because anything's better than watching the Reid-Pelosi clay pigeons being shot down.

Fowler hasn't made the sell yet.  A few vague statements about reform do not a reformer make.

by jcjcjc 2005-01-04 07:03PM | 0 recs
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Re: Where does Fowler fit?
Try this fourteen-pager that I wrote for more details ...

http://www.changetheparty.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=42

by donnie 2005-01-04 10:46PM | 0 recs
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Re: Where does Fowler fit?
That's a start.  Little washy to begin, but I thought the later points about "measuring" results was valid.  

Been looking at Karl Rove, by any chance?  

Hell, I think the DNC chair should just spend the next two years doing a top down review of everything Rove, and find a slightly less evil way to use those skills.

I'd like to here some specifics about how the DNC plans to get bodies going on the state level.

Indeed, state-level organizing may be a bit behind the curve, since the GOP already skips that to get to county and even personal levels.

Considering direct mail, perhaps?

For example, I live in PA.  I got some direct mail from the Kerry folks about stuff.  Just stuff.  Generic "jobs lost, George sucks" stuff.

The Bush people sent mailers that were practically splatttered in warplanes, images of 9-11, various failures of Kerry on intelligence, war, etc.  I know for a fact it sold with many of my neighbors.

I hope your indications about not the Dems "pout" are also an indication to get dirty like the GOP does.

So . . . you're getting there.  

I'm sold enough that I won't commit suicide if Fowler wins.  

by jcjcjc 2005-01-05 05:16AM | 0 recs
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Umm
So where'd he go?

So far, I'm underwhelmed.

by baba durag 2005-01-04 10:25PM | 0 recs
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Re: Umm
I agree--he still doesn't get it.  I remain unconvinced that Donnie's the best man for the job.

And who is going to take the time to actually read and digest a 14-page paper?  Just answer the damn question and move on.  

by KimPossible 2005-01-05 04:39AM | 0 recs
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Dean
I vote for Dean.
by baba durag 2005-01-05 10:22AM | 0 recs
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Welcome
You're sincerely welcome and you now have a shout-out on my blog, the Kentucky Democrat
by kydem 2005-01-05 04:10AM | 0 recs

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