My case against Hanna Rosin's case against breastfeeding

Warning: long diary ahead.

Hanna Rosin makes "The Case Against Breastfeeding" in the April issue of the Atlantic Monthly. The provocative title is misleading, because as Rosin explained in an interview on NBC's Today show on March 16, she isn't against breastfeeding. In fact, she kind of likes breastfeeding. Her problem is with the people who promote breastfeeding. Here's the lead-in to her piece:

In certain overachieving circles, breast-feeding is no longer a choice--it's a no-exceptions requirement, the ultimate badge of responsible parenting. Yet the actual health benefits of breast-feeding are surprisingly thin, far thinner than most popular literature indicates. Is breast-feeding right for every family? Or is it this generation's vacuum cleaner--an instrument of misery that mostly just keeps women down?

Rosin packs a lot into the article, but I would summarize her main points as:

1. American women face intense social pressure to breastfeed exclusively.

2. Advocates exaggerate the benefits of breastfeeding, which the scientific research does not support.

3. Advocates downplay the negatives about breastfeeding and fail to acknowledge that formula-feeding can be the right choice for some mothers. On a related note, Rosin depicts breastfeeding as extremely inconvenient for mothers who work outside the home.

4. Advocates have medicalized the conversation about breastfeeding, and American women are wrongly led to believe they are harming their babies if they give formula instead.

I address those points and more after the jump. Rosin's conflicted feelings about breastfeeding are valid, but unfortunately, she draws too many broad conclusions based on her personal experiences.

For those who don't care to read the rest of this post, be assured that as a feminist and pro-choice woman, I respect the right of women to decide what and how to feed their own babies. I am also aware that some women are unable to breastfeed for physical or medical reasons, and many more women are unable to breastfeed because they lacked the information and support they needed in the critical early weeks.

My intention is not to judge any mother for her choices or add to the pain of any mother who did not have the breastfeeding experience she sought.

1. Do American women face intense social pressure to breastfeed exclusively?

Let's review some facts about breastfeeding in the U.S. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that babies be fed breast milk exclusively for the first six months of life, and that babies continue to receive some breast milk at least until they turn 1 year old. (The World Health Organization recommends two years of breastfeeding.)

Reading Rosin's article, you'd get the impression that women who don't conform to these norms are social outcasts. But a new study showed that only 50 percent of first-time mothers who gave birth in an American hospital were exclusively breastfeeding when their babies were a week old. By age six months, only about one-third of American babies are getting any breast milk, and only about half that percentage are exclusively breastfed. (That's a big improvement on 15 years ago, when only 19 percent of American babies were getting any breast milk at age six months.) By 12 months of age less than 20 percent of American babies are still partly breastfed.

So contrary to what Rosin suggests, formula-feeding mothers are not some ostracized minority in this country. On the contrary, formula-feeding mothers vastly outnumber those who follow the American Academy of Pediatrics' recommendations on breastfeeding.

Similarly, Rosin claims,

From the moment a new mother enters the obstetrician's waiting room, she is subjected to the upper-class parents' jingle: "Breast Is Best." Parenting magazines offer "23 Great Nursing Tips," warnings on "Nursing Roadblocks," and advice on how to find your local lactation consultant (note to the childless: yes, this is an actual profession, and it's thriving).

When I walked into an obstetrician's office, nine weeks pregnant with my first child, the nurse offered me a free formula sample. Ask any pregnant woman, whatever her education level--my experience was typical. And virtually all American parenting magazines carry formula advertisements claiming formula has the same nutrients found in breast milk. (Mothering is the only parenting magazine I know of that refuses to run formula ads, and you'll never find it in an obstetrician's office.)

In the hospital where my children were born, as in just about every hospital in the country (aside from Massachusetts), new mothers always are offered free formula samples and coupons. Nurses on hospital maternity wards commonly offer to supplement newborns with a bottle of formula or water, even when the mother has declared the intention to breastfeed. Nurses may try to supplement if the baby has gone more than a few hours without nursing, or in the guise of helping the mother get some rest. Researchers have repeatedly found, most recently here, that when babies are given bottles in the hospital, their mothers are less likely to breastfeed exclusively. Yet the practice continues.

Formula samples are also frequently offered when mothers bring new infants to a pediatrician's office for the first visit, usually around two to seven days after birth.

So contrary to the picture Rosin paints of a society hectoring expectant and new mothers to avoid formula at all costs, most American women receive formula samples directly from trusted medical professionals.

I've never heard of a bottle-feeding mother being asked to leave a public place or retreat to a restroom to feed her baby. Nor are formula-feeding mothers ever asked to throw a blanket over an infant on a hot day. Yet these experiences are so common for nursing mothers that advocates have pressed for state laws affirming a woman's right to breastfeed in public.

As I read Rosin's depiction of breastfeeding as "a no-exceptions requirement," and her insistence that formula should not be considered a "public health menace," I wondered what planet she was living on. She occasionally qualifies her argument (alluding to "upper-class" environs or "certain overachieving circles"), but elsewhere in the piece she wrongly implies that American mainstream opinion is now hostile to women who don't breastfeed exclusively. She wonders, "how is it that every mother I know has become a breast-feeding fascist?"

I would encourage Rosin to get out more. I've attended at least 200 different meetings of various mothers' groups in central Iowa during the past six years. For every anecdote in Rosin's article about snooty breastfeeding moms looking down on their bottle-feeding peers, I could tell 20 stories about women whose friends and family continually make belittling comments about their nursing.

Ironically, I would not have seen Rosin's interview on the Today show if a woman I know (the only breastfeeder in her extended family) had not posted this query on a parenting board:

My mom dropped [baby's name] off to me yesterday and stated that my father had seen something on a morning show yesterday that said you shouldn't breastfeed past 6 months, that it was better to give formula. Did anyone see this or know what he's talking about? I'm curious what it said and the reasons given. My parents are the "if it's on TV it MUST be true" types so I need to have my position ready for when it gets brought up again.

If you watch Rosin's interview, you'll see she says no such thing. In the same segment, NBC's chief medical expert emphasizes that the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends exclusive breastfeeding for six months, followed by continued breastfeed until at least 12 months of age. Yet my acquaintance's father, who views breastfeeding from a hostile perspective, watched the segment and absorbed that someone on tv said it's bad to breastfeed past six months.

I regret that any women are made to feel bad for choosing not to breastfeed, or for admitting to mixed feelings about breastfeeding. At the same time, we must acknowledge that nursing mothers are also judged and criticized for their choices, especially once you get outside the "overachieving circles" most familiar to Rosin.

2. Do advocates exaggerate the benefits of breastfeeding?

Research has connected breastfeeding with an enormous list of benefits for child and mother. This page on the website of La Leche League International, an organization created to promote breastfeeding, includes many relevant links.

Rosin examines some of the scientific literature and concludes that the benefits of breastfeeding are minimal or illusory. Sure, breastfeeding may prevent a bout with a stomach bug here and there, but too much of the research on other benefits is plagued by confounding variables. Are babies who were breastfed smarter, healthier, or less likely to be obese because they were breastfed? Or did they benefit from other features of their household or upbringing that happen to be correlated with a tendency of their mothers to breastfeed?

I am sympathetic to this line of analysis. A statistician in my family has indoctrinated me to be wary of confounding variables.

At the same time, I think there is more consensus than Rosin lets on about some issues, like the role of exclusive breastfeeding in reducing the risk of food allergies and intolerances.

Also, I couldn't help noticing that Rosin focuses on the most difficult advantages to prove while ignoring other benefits that are indisputable, such as:

-You never have to worry about breast milk being recalled, whereas contamination prompts recalls of infant formula periodically (see also here).
-Breastfeeding develops the jaw and facial muscles differently, reducing the incidence of certain dental problems.
-The manufacture and distribution of infant formula incurs many environmental costs that can be avoided or dramatically reduced by breastfeeding.

But like I said, I am sympathetic to arguments about confounding variables, and Rosin is correct that experts disagree about the role breastfeeding plays in making babies smarter, healthier, and less likely to become obese.

I don't want to spend much time on the debate over breastfeeding and intelligence, because in my opinion the whole concept of IQ is flawed. Whether breastfeeding adds zero or five or eight points to a baby's IQ is of little concern to me. I'd be happy to ditch the whole "edutainment industry" with its Baby Einstein this and its Brainy Baby that.

I do think Rosin ignores one important part of the picture, though. She quotes a researcher who has found a connection between breastfeeding and cognitive abilities as saying the causal factor may not be the breast milk, but the fact that breastfeeding mothers interact more with their babies. That hypothesis makes perfect sense to me. The neurologist Lise Eliot shows in What's Going On In There? that frequent, simple connections (talk to your baby, play with your baby, sing to your baby, hold your baby, carry your baby) are extremely important for a baby's brain development.

Bottle-feeding mothers can be just as attentive as any nursing mother, but if breastfeeding tends to promote this kind of regular interaction between mother and baby, that looks to me like a collateral benefit of breastfeeding, not simply a confounding variable.  

The same goes for mother/child bonding. Clearly mothers do not have to breastfeed in order to form a secure attachment with their babies. Attachment Parenting International offers suggestions on bottle-feeding techniques that promote attachment. It's notable that these mimic breastfeeding behavior: have one parent be the primary feeder, always hold the baby while the baby is eating or sucking on a pacifier for comfort, switch sides and make eye contact while your baby is eating, and so on. A nursing mother cannot avoid doing these things. If you're formula-feeding, it takes more effort and commitment not to prop a bottle in your baby's mouth so you can get an early start on dinner.

Consider the research on obesity. Breastfeeding is no guarantee that your child will not become obese. But overfeeding an infant has been shown to raise the risk of obesity, and it is much easier to overfeed if you are bottle-feeding. Whether a baby is guzzling or just nibbling on a bottle, food will continue to drip into the baby's mouth. Parents also have a tendency to keep trying to finish off the bottle so as not to waste any formula. In contrast, you cannot force a nursing infant who is not hungry to keep eating. A baby may continue "comfort-sucking" for a long time, but will not ingest a significant amount of milk without making real effort to suck and swallow.

Again, I would view this as a collateral benefit of breastfeeding; it naturally leads you to respect a baby's cues on hunger and satiety.

So much for what breastfeeding does for babies. Rosin also examines the other side of the coin:

3. Is breastfeeding much more unpleasant for mothers than its advocates are willing to admit?

Rosin was juggling a lot while writing this article, parenting three children and launching a new web site. She sometimes resented being tied down while nursing and was impatient for her son to finish his meal. When people say breastfeeding is free, Rosin writes,

I want to hit them with a two-by-four. It's only free if a woman's time is worth nothing.

Even staunch breastfeeding advocates can relate to these feelings. I've been to a lot of La Leche League meetings where women lament how little they get done and complain about their babies' nursing habits--marathon nursing at night, biting, climbing, or popping on and off the breast frequently.

I think Rosin generalizes too much about her experience, though. She frequently refers to breastfeeding as inconvenient for mothers, but my friends who have raised both breastfed and bottle-fed children will swear on a Bible that breastfeeding was 100 times more convenient. They didn't have to worry about forgetting a bottle or not having access to clean water when they needed to mix a bottle. They could feed their baby at a moment's notice without taking the time to assemble and warm a bottle. They didn't go to the trouble of making a bottle only to find that their baby wasn't really hungry and just wanted a few seconds of comfort sucking. The list goes on.

I've never worked outside the home while nursing, but I have traveled with babies and toddlers and found breastfeeding to be much less hassle than having to bring along the right kind of food and clean containers. I haven't felt trapped at home either; my babies accompanied me to who knows how many meetings, receptions and political events.

Rosin goes too far to suggest that choosing to breastfeed "pretty much guarantees that you will not work in any meaningful way." Taking care of a baby is time-consuming no matter how you are feeding. Furthermore, I have many friends who have worked outside the home while continuing to breastfeed. They enjoyed maintaining the breastfeeding relationship and connecting with their baby in a way that no substitute caregiver could match.

Some women are able to work from home or take their nurslings to work with them in the early months. Iowa State Representative Janet Petersen and State Senator Staci Appel come to mind. Taking your baby to work is obviously easier if you work for yourself or for an unusually enlightened employer. The successful Des Moines attorney Roxanne Conlin told me a few years ago that she lets her employees bring babies to work until the babies can walk.

If the "mommy track" does tend to derail women in certain high-status professions, I think it's wrong to pin the blame on breastfeeding. Workplaces are often inflexible, and the demands of parenting small children are unrelenting.

For reasons I do not understand, Rosin ignores many proven benefits of breastfeeding for mothers, especially those who nurse for longer than a few months: regular release of the hormones oxytocin and prolactin, reduced risk of several types of cancer as well as rheumatoid arthritis, reduced risk of postpartum bleeding, stronger bone density, and delayed resumption of menstruation and fertility. Many nursing mothers also find it easier to lose weight, although that is not true for everyone.

Rosin seems to harbor a special loathing for breast pumps, judging from one cruel passage in her article. Writing about a friend who was exclusively pumping breast milk because her baby could not nurse, Rosin comments,

One of them sat on my couch the other day hooked up to tubes and suctions and a giant deconstructed bra, looking like some fetish ad, or a footnote from the Josef Mengele years. Looking as far as humanly possible from Eve in her natural, feminine state.

Words fail me here. My friends who have pumped for babies with special needs found it comforting to be able to feed their milk to their babies despite less than ideal circumstances. Portraying them as freaks or torture victims is so uncalled for. By the way, PumpingMoms.org is an excellent resource for women who are exclusively feeding their babies breast milk in bottles.

Pumping is probably not the favorite aspect of any working mother's day, and women who detest it should feel free not to do it. But many women have no regrets about pumping, and I've talked with older women who say they would have loved to nurse their babies longer if breast pumps had been available in their day.

Rosin's antagonistic view of pumping is related to one of her other beefs with the breastfeeding establishment:

4. Do breastfeeding advocates mislead women about the harm they will do if they choose not to breastfeed?

Rosin doesn't like the trend for breastfeeding advocates to talk about its benefits in medical terms, as if breast milk were an essential vaccine. She has a point, but let's face it--we Americans trust science and what our doctors tell us. If you come from a family where everyone formula feeds, a touchy-feely argument about bonding will carry less authority than telling your parents that you're breastfeeding because Dr. So-and-so said it's healthier for the baby. I've met many new mothers who came to support groups seeking talking points to use with hostile relatives, and they invariably latch on to the medical arguments in favor of breastfeeding.

Rosin is deeply offended by any suggestion that choosing not to breastfeed puts your baby at risk. I get where she is coming from. Mothers face so many competing demands in our society and tend to beat themselves up for every perceived failure. Parenting an infant is exhausting and can be overwhelming, whether or not you are nursing. The last thing a mother needs is one more reason to feel guilty.

If we're honest, we could all be doing more for our bodies, our families and our planet. But we don't ask nutritionists to stop talking about healthy eating because it could make less mindful eaters feed bad. We don't ask global warming activists to stop talking about carbon footprints because it could make energy hogs feel bad. By the same token, it is unfair to ask advocates to stop talking about the health, environmental or emotional benefits of breastfeeding because doing so could make formula-feeding mothers feel bad.

Along these lines, Dr. Jack Newman provides a good analysis of breastfeeding and guilt in his Ultimate Breastfeeding Book of Answers, which for my money is essential reading for every nursing mother.

One of my friends who happens to be an accredited La Leche League leader read Rosin's article and had this reaction:

I think what she was trying to accomplish with this article is to basically support mothers who choose not to breastfeed. [...]  There will always be mothers who choose to use formula for their own reasons and they need support, too.

So true. I would like to see more tolerance and acceptance for all loving mothers. In addition, mothers who work outside the home deserve better support, such as longer maternity leaves and more flexible schedules, no matter how they are feeding their babies.

Who cares what Hanna Rosin thinks about breastfeeding?

By now readers may be wondering why this political blogger has bothered to write so much about one magazine article. Besides the fact that I enjoy the Atlantic Monthly and Rosin's previous work (see here and here), this article touches a nerve with me for various reasons. The title is a cheap gimmick to sell magazines that will inevitably be misinterpreted by breastfeeding opponents.

I also was disturbed by the author's smirking reference to lactation consultants ("note to the childless: yes, this is an actual profession") and condescending description of La Leche League.

Not so many years ago, I was a new mother who wanted to breastfeed. I would have wanted to even if breast milk had zero nutritional or environmental benefits over formula. But I had no family or friends nearby who were experienced nursers, and breastfeeding did not come naturally to me or my child. Some of our early difficulties were commonplace, and a couple of issues were more unusual.

I didn't need someone to tell me sticking with it didn't matter, because breastfeeding is overrated for babies and a big hassle for mothers.

What I needed was practical advice and support from knowledgeable and compassionate women. I got that from an outstanding lactation consultant and a group of La Leche League leaders who spent many unpaid hours getting me--a stranger to them--past the early obstacles.

As a result, I cannot accept Rosin's portrayal of breastfeeding advocates as bullying scolds who do mothers and babies no favors.

I didn't need to breastfeed in order to love my children or be a good mother. But breastfeeding has enriched my life. For that I am grateful to the advocates who made our family's experience possible.

Tags: attachment, breastfeeding, formula feeding, Health, Nutrition, Obesity, Parenting (all tags)

Comments

52 Comments

not my usual material, but

you know what they say: the personal is political.

by desmoinesdem 2009-03-24 03:01PM | 0 recs
Re: not my usual material, but

great diary, dmd.  Thanks!

by SuperCameron 2009-03-24 04:55PM | 0 recs
thanks

This is a great critique and it certainly expands the list of topics around here.

Our experience corroborates some of what Rosin argues and some of what you add for context, issues that beg reevaluation of some of her claims.

I think we also need to look more closely at the experiences of mothers based on region and culture and class.  My wife tried quite heroically to nurse our daughter for two months.  I "finger fed" her pumped breastmilk to help several times a day.  It was among the hardest periods in either of our lives.  My wife made the decision to stop based on a variety of medical and emotional factors.  

Our son was born 2.5 years later.  There were some complications with nursing him in the beginning as well.  But thankfully, things became manageable and both mother and baby loved nursing through his 14th month.

Both our children are happy healthy and loving young people (ages 5 and 2 now).  My wife still feels sad that breastfeeding didn't work for our daughter.  And we did notice a difference in immunity between them.  My daughter was sick much more often in her first 18 months.  This may have had something to do with breastfeeding, but it's awfully hard to control for other variables on an individual basis.

Anecdotally, I think this corroborates the notion that it's worth trying and we as a society should be more supportive.  But some of the social pressure that we experienced where we live (Ann Arbor) indeed weighed on my wife and made it harder.

Though our daughter thrived in general on formula after that, she

by Strummerson 2009-03-24 03:28PM | 0 recs
Re: thanks

called me to help her find her crayons and I ran off without realizing I hadn't finished the post.

by Strummerson 2009-03-24 04:29PM | 0 recs
that's the best kind of reason

for not finishing a post!

I have friends who have been where your wife was, and I might have ended up weaning at 10 weeks the first time around if a medical situation had turned out differently. It's so hard to deal with that struggle, and if you later get disapproving looks or comments about bottle-feeding, it adds insult to injury.

Kudos to your wife for trying again the second time. One of my friends could not face the risk of going through that again and never put her second child to the breast. At mothers' groups I've met lots of women who were unable to breastfeed the first child but found it worked out well with other children.

How you feed your baby looms very large when you first become a parent, but it doesn't determine the kind of relationship you'll have with your child.

by desmoinesdem 2009-03-25 01:26AM | 0 recs
Omega 3 fatty acids, particularly DHA

the human brain is around 60% DHA. Babies, especially low birth weight babies, need DHA. Breast milk contains it. (most) Formula does not.

Infant products also frequently contain toxic chemicals. (not unlike products for adults)

All told, breastfeeding alone improves IQ by as much as 10 points.

There are benefits for both baby and mother in the enriched environment. Babies who are held and carried with mama or daddy also experience major gains in IQ. Babies who are left alone or only partly engaged are not able to receive sensory input at a time in which the body and especially brain really needs it to grow.

The future workplace in which children exist will be much different than today. People will need skills far more complex than were required during the industrial era to find and keep work.

To handicap a child by not giving them adequate amounts of essential fatty acids when the brain needs them is wrong.

by architek 2009-03-25 05:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Omega 3 fatty acids, particularly DHA

Wow.  You totally ignore the context of this interchange.  This is exactly the scientistic and ideologically over-determined response that is both unhelpful and unethical.  It does not take into consideration that some women and their partners who recognize the benefits of nursing nonetheless face great challenges.  You fail to credit these situations, which often lead to loss of weight or insufficient weight gain in newborns.  This is not only a threat to the infant's health, but often complicates an already difficult post-partum experience, which also can effect the child.

You assert that "breastfeeding alone improves IQ by as much as 10 points" but then acknowledge that "babies who are held and carried with mama or daddy also experience major gains in IQ."  There is no way to control for the effects of breastfeeding on IQ "alone" and other factors that accompany nursing but are not necessarily connected also aid the development of intelligence.  Such statements only hold true for quantified norms.  But they often come off as threats to women who are struggling.  Even if nursing contributes to cognitive development in general, it does not mean that a child who is raised in a culture where the same attitudes and practices can compensate, but who cannot be effectively fed through the breast will necessarily be 10 points stupider on any abstract measurement.  But that's how it sounds.  

Isn't there a way to encourage and support breastfeeding without implying lack of conscientiousness and crippling maltreatment in those who nonetheless struggle for reasons far beyond their control?

My daughter has been held, sung to, read to, played with, encouraged, and enjoyed her whole life.  She was just screened for readiness for kindergarden next year by one of her teachers.  To no one's surprise, she summed up the results like this: "Oh, she's ready!"

by Strummerson 2009-03-25 05:46AM | 0 recs
Re: that's the best kind of reason

"if you later get disapproving looks or comments about bottle-feeding, it adds insult to injury"

Indeed.  But it's also more subtle than that.  The barrage of moralistic encouragement and celebration of nursing in this particular community often feels like an implied rebuke, even if that's not the intention.  There is a distinct lack of sensitivity to the fact that some choices are overdetermined by circumstances.  

The rhetoric also often suggests that nursing is ancient, natural, and organic, but formula and bottles are alienating, corporate, artificial, lazy, consumerist and a hallmark of everything that is wrong with modern bourgeois existence.  What this ignores is that there have always been alternatives to nursing.  Not only have women nursed one another's children when necessary, orphans and children of women who struggled have been fed animal milk from cloths and other mechanisms.  The juxtaposition of antiquity and authenticity on the one hand with modernity and artificiality on the other ignores a more complex reality.

by Strummerson 2009-03-25 05:31AM | 0 recs
Re: that's the best kind of reason

When was the last time a law had to be created for you to be allowed to feed your child in public?  When that happens we can discuss how alienated you feel for bottlefeeding your child.

Secondly the data pertaining to higher IQ, health etc of children who are breastfed vs. formula fed is meant to be taken into account when considering the child's individual progress not when comparing them to other children. A child who is breastfed will be healthier, smarter etc then they would have been had they been formula fed.  That doesn't mean that there aren't healthy formula fed kids (or adults - as the impact is lifelong) or sick people who were breastfed; it just means that they individually are going to have more deficiencies then they would've had if they had originally been breastfed. It is really quite a simple concept, however the multi-billion dollar corps that market formula use the same GOP marketing tactics to confuse people and it works, obviously.

by jrsygrl 2009-03-25 08:03AM | 0 recs
Re: that's the best kind of reason

Can I ask who the hell you think you are to assume the authority to determine what and what may not be discussed?

You clearly have not attended to my posts closely enough to respond responsibly.  I clearly assert agreement that breastfeeding is preferable and that it should receive more support, both formally in terms of policy and with regard to social acceptance that should facilitate it.

And this is wrong:

"A child who is breastfed will be healthier, smarter etc then they would have been had they been formula fed.  That doesn't mean that there aren't healthy formula fed kids (or adults - as the impact is lifelong) or sick people who were breastfed; it just means that they individually are going to have more deficiencies then they would've had if they had originally been breastfed."

This is what happens when advocates cease to take responsibility for the fact that they are applying scientific data to support a particular position.  It's just not how science works.  This data only indicates likelihood.  That should be good enough.  You want to turn it into a guarantee.  Furthermore, it's methodologically obtuse.  Data cannot measure a child against its own potential, as one cannot test this.  You can't have two versions of the same child, breast feed one, control for all other factors, and then give them an IQ test.  The data is generalized and gleaned with an attempt to control for all other factors.  This produces somewhat reliable recommendations.  What it suggests most reliably on the other hand, is that a society that promotes and supports breastfeeding should see a rise in average IQ scores, as well as a variety of significant health benefits over a lifespan.

And I don't work for any multi-billion dollar corporation.  But I am also not a zealot whose "cause" is more important than the families it seeks to serve.

by Strummerson 2009-03-25 08:41AM | 0 recs
Re: that's the best kind of reason

No my statement is not wrong.

It sounds to me like you are just a parent who for whatever reason is choosing to interpret things in post that don't exist due to whatever emotional issues you are having.  I never said a word about what discussions can or cannot be had. I merely pointed out the fallacious arguments made by this author who clearly has some sort of psychological issue pertaining to her parenting choices which causes her to see things that just don't exist. It is a form of cognitive dissonance that is being promoted in the marketing techniques used by these multi-billion dollar companies; much the same as the forms of persuasion employed by the GOP.  And there is no greater emotional area exists then how one parents.  

by jrsygrl 2009-03-25 10:32AM | 0 recs
Re: that's the best kind of reason

Your statement is not just wrong, factually speaking, it's uncivil and unethical.  Now you are taking the fact that I am raising the emotional context of these issues, and I understand you have never gone through post-partum struggles yourself, to devalue my argument as based on emotion instead of engaging its content.  It is an argument about an emotional context, one any real advocate of breast feeding would care about.  But it is not an argument based on emotional appeal.  

You also reveal the degree to which your entire mode of discussion is disingenuous.  You say here that you "never said a word about what discussions can or cannot be had" when the very post I was responding to includes this statement: "When that happens we can discuss how alienated you feel for bottlefeeding your child."

Oops.  That's exactly what you are doing based on your own statement.

My point is that you are misapplying the data because you don't understand how to apply scientific data.  I nowhere argue that breastfeeding is not the better option.  After trying to nurse our daughter for two months, my wife made a necessary decision primarily based on medical considerations.  I supported her every step of the way.  And though things did not go smoothly with my son at first, and despite the struggles she had already gone through with his sister, they were able to nurse happily and successfully through his 14th month.  What my comments add to this is that in some communities, even women who favor breastfeeding and recognize its advantages, and who already are struggling are subtly but powerfully stigmatized by people who display an attitude similar to the one you present here when they need to face a necessary disappointment.  The fact that you so callously dismiss that speaks volumes.

by Strummerson 2009-03-25 12:02PM | 0 recs
Re: that's the best kind of reason

Wrong. Not only are you comprehending the data incorrectly you are also either on purpose or for some other reason misconstruing what I wrote. I cannot help that how a baby and child is fed will most certainly impact their individual health. That is a fact and there are numerous studies conducted over decades, some of which were even sponsored by the manufacturers of formula, which unequivocally demonstrate this. It is what it is. To make others responsible for your hurt feelings b/c of this is something that is not only wrong but from a public health perspective, it is repugnant to me that people advocate cherry picking what data is publicized so as to make oversensitive people feel better. If people have a personal issue with a parenting method, a bad post partum experience or any other upsetting time in life, the healthy thing to do is own those feelings, but NOT to lash out and diminish facts as though they don't exist, blame people who are doing a thankless job for free or otherwise continue to encourage a system that, ironically in many situations CONTRIBUTED to a lot of women's bad post-partum experience. To advocate distortion on a public health issue because someone has personal issues regarding their personal experience is just misdirected and I wish more people would see it that way. However, when you are dealing with multi-billion dollar companies who are directly supporting and publishing marketing pieces and articles advocating this point of view (to ensure the profitability of their product) and you have on the flip side people who make no (or minimal) money and have no product to sell but are merely attempting to advocate a public health issue or help people to feed the way that they wish, which side do you think is going to triumph in shaping public perceptions?

Finally, I have said NOTHING about your personal situation; however you have been insistent on finding insult & in fact directly name calling me for making the most basic of factual statements, which is that feeding method will impact future health. I can't help it if facts make you feel bad. As for your wife's post partum experience; as I said I am not looking to discuss or debate your personal experience. My post have had nothing to do with your individual experience and I have made no statements, nor asked any questions about your situation or your children.

The bottom line is if this author is having such a vitriol reaction to a public health issue that she fabricates a culture that doesn't exist & lies about the data she either has a malicious agenda OR a personal problem should be owned privately. This article only helps to perpetuate "mommy wars," that may never have existed if it weren't for these companies which wish to perpetuate certain myths so as to protect the profitability of their product line by ensuring it remains the current cultural standard instead of people defaulting to the biological standard. And this, I will say again, is a public health issue and on a personal level is implicit in directly impeding a woman's right to truly choose and be successful in using their preferred feeding for their child, no matter the method that they elect.

And finally in reference to your comment about my statement about my out of context quote "When that happens we can discuss how alienated you feel for bottlefeeding your child," what about the actual statement?  Women like this author claim to feel sooo alienated for bottlefeeding, yet we live in a bottlefeeding culture, we are one of the few first world countries that violate the WHO code on infant feeding marketing AND laws have never had to be made to make bottlefeeding in public legal. To then claim that a bottlefeeder is the greater alienated party when even from a basic legal standpoint people who don't use this feeding method had to have laws made so they weren't arrested for feeding their children in public, shows a major skew in logic.

by jrsygrl 2009-03-26 11:17AM | 0 recs
Re: that's the best kind of reason

This is now a distraction.  I apologize to all the readers of this thread for my part in it.  I stand by my arguments, but feel it inappropriate to continue to encourage the irresponsibility and dishonesty here.

My final comment is to restate that "facts" and "data" do not exist in a vacuum.  We must take responsibility for how they are always presented in an interpretive context.  Seeking to encourage appropriate and ethical application and presentation does not diminish them, rather it makes their use more effective, so that they serve people respectfully.

I commend jrsygrl's commitment to this important public health issue that effects all of us, but young families in particular, even if I find the mode and tone of this engagement completely inappropriate.  If this writer chooses to respond with more disinformation, personal attack, and dismissiveness, I will not respond out of respect for this topic and this thread.

Good luck jrsygrl.  I wish you well.

by Strummerson 2009-03-26 12:09PM | 0 recs
Re: that's the best kind of reason

Talk about backhanded!

I have made no factual misstatements nor attacked you on a personal level ever. However you have engaged in consistently making it personal, name calling & when the only thing I did was correct a factually incorrect statement you made.

The idea that you purport to take the high road however stand behind your posts which contained quite a bit of personal name calling, which I never ONCE engaged  in, while still insisting on mis-characterizing what I wrote, is quite inflammatory.  To say otherwise, while consistent with your posting style on this topic, does not make it right.

by jrsygrl 2009-03-26 12:42PM | 0 recs
great diary.

although some of your points are taken...  based on my personal experience i find myself agreeing more with rosin than you i'm afraid.

its possible that this divergence of opinion might be based on geography or deeply individual experience.  clearly rosin's article hit a deeply rooted nerve with you - but to me - i am deeply thankful that she is broaching a topic that is extremely taboo (even on facebook for example)

either way - thanks for writing this and shedding light on a topic many shy away from.

by canadian gal 2009-03-24 04:14PM | 0 recs
it is a taboo subject

and I understand why Rosin has been getting lots of mail thanking her for the piece in addition to tons of mail criticizing her.

After thinking about the article for a while, I think one of the most important messages is that we need to respond with empathy rather than judgment when other people express views that diverge from our own experiences. Rosin begins her article with a story about other moms in the park reacting in a hostile way when she made some offhand comment about breastfeeding. That got her attention and prompted her to repeat the "experiment." After being shunned several times, she got the idea to research the subject and write this article.

Imagine if those other women had not responded harshly, but had nodded and owned up to their own mixed feelings about breastfeeding on a bad day. Rosin might never have gotten the idea for this article. Food for thought.

by desmoinesdem 2009-03-25 01:07AM | 0 recs
Re: it is a taboo subject

no argument from me.  and i think that empathy is what rosin is advocating in a razzamatazz-get-me-on-the-today-show way.  i also think that the pressure to breast feed falls much harder onto first-time moms which is an altogether different topic.

by canadian gal 2009-03-25 08:33AM | 0 recs
forgot to mention

that some breastfeeding advocates don't understand statistics and therefore do exaggerate the benefits.

Breastfeeding reduces the risk of breast cancer, but if you have a strong family history of breast cancer, you could breastfeed for 10 years and may still have a higher risk than a different woman who only formula-fed.

Ditto if you come from a highly allergic family. By all means breastfeed exclusively and delay the introduction of solid foods, but understand that your child may still develop food allergies.

If Rosin had written more explicitly from her personal experience and not gone on national tv to claim this is a big nationwide problem, I wouldn't have been so bothered.

by desmoinesdem 2009-03-25 05:10AM | 0 recs
Re: forgot to mention

If a woman breastfeeds her child for 2+ years her personal likelihood of getting breast cancer is decreased by 50%. But the one time I saw this mentioned on an interview the Dr. said that was true but dismissed it b/c of course "noone does THAT." She then rolled her eyes at the ridiculous nature of the question and went back to discussing methods of reducing your likely of contracting the disease which had less than a 10% efficacy rate.  

And yes your child may or may not still develop food allergies however it is a fact that they will be less severe then they would have been if the same child was fed formula instead & intro'd solids earlier. Ironically both of my parents were bottle fed, have severe (food & other) allergies; however my brother & were breastfed with late intro of solids and have NO allergies to be discovered to medication, food, weather etc. Anecdotal I know but interesting that obviously feeding method must've had an impact here. In other situations there may be other things at play, but feeding method will always impact either positively or negatively the individual child's health issues.  

Basically breastfeeding is the biological standard. Anything else is substandard & the  results will leave said child with the a greater likelihood for certain deficiencies that wouldn't have existed before (when compared to themselves).  That doesn't mean your kid is going to be a genius, a super athlete, live to be a 100 or never get sick if you breastfeed. What that does mean is that your child will be better off then if they were fed formula, in terms of their lifelong health.  And btw breastfeeding advocates don't have a product to sell & make money from; only those who promote formula do. Ironically, most, if not all, of the studies which have demonstrated the great divide in the substances were sponsored by companies who sell formula.

by jrsygrl 2009-03-25 07:21AM | 0 recs
Re: forgot to mention

"What that does mean is that your child will be better off then if they were fed formula, in terms of their lifelong health."

Not quite.  It means that your child will have a higher likelihood of lifelong health.  Statistical norms are not exact predictors or prophetic assurances of individual results.

My concern is the way that applications of this data affect women in a wide variety of situations.  Certainly this data can and should be used to encourage individual women to breast feed, and should affect the crafting of policy and social norms to support breastfeeding.  But they can also be applied in ways that seem punitive and judgmental, leading to hardships on new mothers who are already struggling.

by Strummerson 2009-03-25 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: forgot to mention

Judgement is a human emotion not something that data is capable of, last time I checked. If people have that type of a reaction to data then they need to look in the mirror and deal with whatever personal feelings they have.  Whatever feeding choice a parent makes is their business, but to diminish the alternative as a means of making one feel more comfortable with their choices is at best immature & petty and worst impacting the public health of a population.

by jrsygrl 2009-03-25 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: forgot to mention

My point is that the data is often applied in ways that are as tone deaf as your responses.  "Data" does not stand in some objective space.  It is polemically and interpretively applied.  Dismissing the ways in which public discourses affect individual women completely ignores a central political insight of the feminist movement in the past century, i.e. that the political is personal.

No one is diminishing anything here for the sake of personal comfort.  If you actually read my posts prior to slinging dogmatic ideological absolutes you might have recognized that the perspective I seek to add here pertains to how the data is presented so that it is most productive.  The only thing "immature & petty" here is your response.

by Strummerson 2009-03-25 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: forgot to mention

Excuse me?  Look if you have some sort of issue with your parenting keep it to yourself.  The data and the studies, most of which were sponsored by the manufacturers of formula, are clear and the differences are real. Beyond that whichever choice you wish to make is yours to own.  You, however keep insisting on diminishing things for whatever reason.  People like this author need to own your issues and give it a rest.

Noone is making formula feeders feel bad except for formula feeders. Like I said when you need to get legislation passed to allow you to feed your child in public and STILL you are afraid to do so, then we can talk about how marginalized your parenting decisions have become.  Keep in mind YOU are in the vast majority.

by jrsygrl 2009-03-25 10:21AM | 0 recs
Re: forgot to mention

No.  You are not excused.  Not for your tone.  Not for the disinformation in your argument.  Not for personalizing this.  Should I though the fact that you are not a parent in your face to silence your argument?  No.  Instead I will engage it.

Nowhere did I argue that the data does support the superiority of breastfeeding.  But you do not understand the implications of that data for individual circumstances.  This data does not prove that my daughter, who was formula fed after her 2nd month would score ten points higher on an IQ exam if the nursing had been successful.  This data does not prove, in any way, that my son who was breastfed would score 10 points lower if he had been bottle fed.  What it shows is that IQ scores would improve on average in a population that was breastfed.

Now you argue that "no one is making formula feeders feel bad except for formula feeders."  This is just false.  The fact that it is beyond your knowledge and experience does not mean it does not occur in some communities.  What I am suggesting is that we need better support for breastfeeding and that the arguments in its favor need to be conveyed in ways that do not threaten or punish mothers and babies who struggle in good faith and still do not find success.

As for issues with my parenting, OF COURSE I have issues with my parenting.  Anyone who does not have issues with their parenting is likely an atrocious and irresponsible parent.  If yo were a parent, you would know that yourself.  But they have nothing to do with what I argue here.

Anyone who can type this statement, "[p]eople like this author need to own your issues and give it a rest" display an intellectual bankruptcy and emotional callousness that make them a piss poor advocate for any issue, and especially one of such significance for mothers and babies, as well as the families that support them.  I think you've got a lot to work out before your evaluations of anyone else's issues or emotions will be credible.

Finally, your compulsion to attempt to silence someone instead of understanding their position in such a facile way as imputing emotional imbalance shows that you have zero understanding of the history of feminist struggle.  This is EXACTLY how women have been silenced and dismissed for centuries.  It's a strategy I would think you would recognize as ethically atrocious.  Shame on you for employing it in this forum on this issue.

by Strummerson 2009-03-25 12:18PM | 0 recs
Re: forgot to mention

I actually never personalized this - YOU did. I simply stated a fact that feeding methods will impact your a person's health. Period. You chose to find offense and name call.

I'm speaking about an overall public health issue. You insist on devolving into name calling. If you can't debate civilly, please stop responding to my posts.  

The fact that this author would blatantly make factual misstatements with extraordinary hostility to a public health issue demonstrates something about herself.  And btw feminism is based in facts & rational thought. The piece this author wrote is based in neither.

by jrsygrl 2009-03-26 11:27AM | 0 recs
Re: great diary.

Roisin is an idiot.  Hell I don't even have children & I KNOW that women in the US face pressure to BOTTLEfeed NOT breastfeed. Every single one of my friends right from day 1 in the hospital had the nurses insisting on giving the babies formula (and these were in supposedly well rated hospitals in very progressive areas). I was visiting one of my friend's on the first day her baby was born & during her pregnancy she was very vocal about the fact that she wanted to breastfeed. I walk into the room & see the nurse feeding the baby a bottle & I said "Oh she wants to breastfeed." The nurse gasped (yes gasped), raised her voice at me & said "She is only producing colustrum, that is NOT real food & a baby will starve to death if NOT fed a bottle."  And my friend nodded her head & said "Yes my ped. told me she'll starve to death - I have to feed formula until the colustrum  turns into real food." BTW my friend is a fricking SCIENTIST to make matters worse. I knew that was false but what I can I say - she was convinced she'd kill her baby. This is just one example of MANY similar experiences I have witnessed all over the progressive state of NJ visiting people who have had babies. Most of them went on to sort of breastfeed, but the bottom line is the introduction of formula causes permanent damage to the digestive tract.  Look - it's your business if you don't want to breastfeed. But to act like formula is somehow even close to the same thing is ridiculous. Does it make you a bad mother to feed your baby formula? No, but that doesn't change the substances.  And the bottom line is the pharmaceutical companies are taking a similar route as the GOP by repeating something that is false enough times in order to shape public opinion to believe it is true. They do this because they have a big financial interest.  Then I hear people demonize groups that make NO MONEY that solely exist to freely offer support and advise as though they have something to gain from you nursing your child. THEY HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN OTHER THEN AN IMPROVED PUBLIC HEALTH.

You know what you if feel judged for bottlefeeding, the next time you are out somewhere try breastfeeding your child. Then give your child a bottle. Which one would you have a concern about being attacked for?  Which option would you be MORE likely to see others doing? Hint - it's not breastfeeding. None of my friends would EVER breastfeed in public.  It was after all horribly indecent. There were only 2 choices in their minds; bottlefeed or not go out (or as a 3rd option tried on 1 child - shove a pacifier in her mouth over & over again & hold it in there to try and get her to stop crying). One person tried going into a bathroom a few times but that is disgusting, unsanitary & unhealthy so she went for option 1 (never leaving the house) & option 3 if necessary of holding a pacifier in a screaming babies mouth.  When you've held a pacifier in your baby's mouth while it shrieked behind it in hunger b/c you are too embarrassed & frightened to feed them (despite the legal protection that exists) THEN you can tell me how society has judged you, for YOUR feeding method. You know what - never mind - when an actual law has to be passed that makes it NOT A CRIME for you to feed your baby in public, then you can tell me how society has made you feel bad for your feeding method.

by jrsygrl 2009-03-25 05:23AM | 0 recs
Re: great diary.

So before formula was invented, did every baby starve to death?  It's amazing what people will believe, even well-educated folks like your friend.

by Steve M 2009-03-25 08:29AM | 0 recs
Re: great diary.

some did, if their moms were sick or didn't produce enough milk, they did.  There were wet nurses for fortunate babies.  

by anna shane 2009-03-25 09:37AM | 0 recs
Re: great diary.

My understanding is that formula was invented precisely because of situations like that.  Which is a good thing, obviously.  But I'm pretty confident the vast majority of babies did just fine with colostrum for the first day or two, right?

People put a lot of trust in their doctors and nurses.  It's a real shame to see medical professionals giving advice that is 100% scientifically inaccurate.

by Steve M 2009-03-25 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: great diary.

all moms knew how, and most babies survived.  Humans have the capacity, like the great apes, to adopt and care for someone else's new born and women used to nurse much longer, so there was a likelihood that there would be an adoptive mom who still had milk.  

Women are given formula 'free' before they leave the hospital.  It's quite a marketing coup. But the real damage is in third world countries.  

by anna shane 2009-03-25 09:56AM | 0 recs
Re: great diary.

The only thing that is taboo on facebook is the fact that a whole group of women aren't allowed to have a picture posted of themselves feeding their children, unless they use a bottle.  How is that alienating bottlefeeders? If anything that alienates the breastfeeder who actually has to fight to be allowed to post a picture of their child being fed. When was the last time a bottlefeeder wasn't allowed to post a picture of their child being fed?

by jrsygrl 2009-03-25 08:05AM | 0 recs
Re: great diary.

as i said above - my personal experiences tend to fall in line less with the diarist and more in line with rosin.  that said - there is no dispute that breast-feeding mothers experience forms of alienation too - which is why i provided the FB link as an example.

by canadian gal 2009-03-25 08:30AM | 0 recs
Re: great diary.

And keep in mind alot of these "mommy wars" are manufactured much in the same way that the  "War on Christmas," was manufactured by Fox news, to get a group of people riled up about an emotional issue by fabricating a public perception that doesn't exist (in fact the opposite exists).  In reality there is little to no support available for those who breastfeed and those who file current medical recommendations are shunned and treated like a societal pariah. However, somehow people like this author are able to get whole hosts of individuals to act like there is truth in what she said & that he differences are slim, when in fact they are not (as evidenced by studies sponsored by the manufacturers of formula).  Instead of being angry with people who are successful or groups who are in the red financially but are women who volunteer their time to help others; those who wish to breastfeed should be angry that our society & even are medical community are so ignorant as to how to support the process and in many instances create problems.

by jrsygrl 2009-03-25 10:25AM | 0 recs
delightfully retro

who knew anyone was being pressured to breast feed, it's mainly the other way around.  Unpleasant opinionated people can switch sides it seems, in the service of being unpleasant.    

Of course there are health benefits, but also lifestyle benefits, such as not having to get up and warm a bottle to do the 2:00 am feeding, and not having to pay fortunes for baby formula. In third world countries baby formula was watered down or mixed with unsanitary water and caused disease and death.  Mom's get their bodies back faster with breast-feeding, and it's a natural birth control.  If you can't, because you can't get the hang of it or if you have to go back to work, formula works great.  

Poor sad moms who know creepy people who tell them what to do with their bodies - pressuring for either is sooo retro.  

by anna shane 2009-03-24 04:59PM | 0 recs
I'm with you

Very creepy that so many people take it upon themselves to pass judgment on such a personal decision.

In my family we weren't raised to tell people what to do, so I am continually amazed when I hear what other mothers have to deal with.

I have also known women who were unable to breastfeed despite trying their hardest, and it's so hurtful for them to get the occasional disapproving look or comment about bottle-feeding.

One thing that interests me is how different personality types respond so differently to outside pressure. I have known women who quit trying to breastfeed because one or two people made a discouraging comment at a vulnerable moment. Then there are women who hear from so many people that they can't or shouldn't do it that they become more determined to prove the naysayers wrong.

Also, I agree with you that breastfeeding seems like the lazy mom's option compared to preparing and cleaning bottles day and night. That's why it was strange for me to read about breastfeeding as an instrument for keeping women down.

by desmoinesdem 2009-03-25 01:16AM | 0 recs
A year off to nurse a child

Many civilized countries give women a year off to nurse and bond with a child.

Just another data point backing up the fact that we are throwing our future away.

by architek 2009-03-25 05:27AM | 0 recs
Re: A year off to nurse a child

Agreed.  Here we often push women back to work in a matter of weeks and then provide them with toiletless bathrooms to pump milk in as a mark of "support."  It's a lame alternative to extended parental leave and/or flexibility that allows women to rejoin their colleagues more gradually by contributing from the home as they become ready, as seen in many other industrialized countries.

by Strummerson 2009-03-25 05:54AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm with you

I was a league mom 35 years ago, it was fun to have a group of helpful moms, we'd hang out, talking babies.  Back then it was harder to nurse in public cause there were even more social restrictions and it was almost unusual to nurse, so learning the discrete method was useful.  It was part of the philosophy to be supportive so women could nurse, but even some league moms had problems and had to go with formula, and that was sad for them, cause they'd wanted to nurse.  My mother didn't nurse me, and she said she'd always thought she'd missed out on something, which is why I decided to not miss it, if at all possible.  It was very difficult in the beginning, far more difficult than I'd imagined.  If I'd had to return to work it would have been impossible, not everyone could use a breast pump, I never got the hang of that. Moms do the best we can, the family has to eat too.  Walking around with a baby is just an invitation to bullies, it seems, tell me everything I'm doing wrong, thank you?  

by anna shane 2009-03-25 09:50AM | 0 recs
heh. some things never change i guess...

i cannot tell you how many times - strangers opted to touch my pregnant belly uninvited or the free advice i got from multiple random strangers about how to care for my babies.

by canadian gal 2009-03-25 10:24AM | 0 recs
Re: My case against Hanna Rosin's case

Now THIS is a topical diary.  My little 1-day old son (one and a HALF days, he'd say, if he could) is nursing as we speak.  Maybe next we can have a discussion about homebirth.

I think the article probably rings true to some people who live in Park Slope or wherever.  But most of America is not the Upper West Side.  Venture outside the liberal enclaves and I'd wager you won't find a lot of "social pressure" to breastfeed, nor will you find a lactation consultant on every block.

I agree with you that the discussion ought to be more about providing information and support than about "pressure."  No one should feel like they have to go around justifying their childrearing practices to strangers.  But the stereotype of the hectoring breastfeeding advocate simply isn't that typical, again, unless you happen to live in a few select communities.

We live in a capitalist society, and it's amazing that breastfeeding has regained even a moderate level of popularity considering that unlike almost any other activity you can think of, there's virtually no profit in it for anyone.  Coke and Pepsi spend millions of dollars trying to get you to choose their respective products.  But weighed against the massive advertising budgets of the formula manufacturers, what is the countervailing force pushing for people to breastfeed?  Unless the breast pump industry is a lot bigger than I think it is, there ain't much.  So the infamous "social pressure" may serve a necessary function, like it or not.  Someone has to push back.

by Steve M 2009-03-24 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: My case against Hanna Rosin's case

Steve, get off the Internet and go cuddle your son!!!

by markjay 2009-03-24 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: My case against Hanna Rosin's case

ps Mazel tov!!!!!

by markjay 2009-03-24 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: My case against Hanna Rosin's case

Aw, I got lots of quality time earlier, cuddling that sleeping baby on the couch while watching my alma mater eliminate #1 seed Duke in the women's tournament.  Truly life does not get any better.  But while dad can arguably provide an equal degree of affection, when the baby is hungry only mommy will do!!

by Steve M 2009-03-24 07:47PM | 0 recs
Re: My case against Hanna Rosin's case

There was this crazy looney in my college who would be the delight of the right winger as she would be the perfect lefty idiot foil for their ridicule. She would talk about how unfair this was and that men needed to simulate it with a bottle or something. She had other issues too.

by Pravin 2009-03-26 09:04AM | 0 recs
congratulations!

That is excellent news. Expect to spend a lot of time keeping your daughter busy while your wife is nursing a newborn, and don't forget to keep refilling mom's water glass!

Ironically, my husband bonded more quickly with our first child, who had so much trouble nursing. I was pumping and my husband was giving the bottles so the baby wouldn't get used to taking a bottle from me. Our second child never took a bottle and didn't warm up to dad until he was a couple months old. I can see why some fathers would feel threatened by the nursing relationship in those early weeks.

I have a lot of friends who are homebirthers. With them I feel like the mainstream mom because my midwife-attended births were in the hospital!

You make a good point about how unlikely the breastfeeding comeback is, given the big money pushing the other side. I would imagine the market for breast pumps, nursing bras and other breastfeeding accessories (like nursing pillows) is not even one percent of the market for infant formula in this country.

by desmoinesdem 2009-03-25 01:02AM | 0 recs
Thank you very much

I wish I had written this entry myself (I would just never had had the time!). I love it and share your opinion on the subject matter. My brother is an actuary (close to a statistician) and he always reminds me that you can twist numbers almost any way you want. Breastfeeding is an issue that is very dear to me, and it really makes me feel good when I hear an opinion so close to mine voiced by someone else. I will make sure to link this entry to my own blog (www.momzelle.wordpress.com).

Thank you !

by Momzelle 2009-03-25 05:48AM | 0 recs
thanks for the comment and link

One of my friends posted a link at Mothering.com too. I'm happy to see it reach a wider audience.

by desmoinesdem 2009-03-25 08:12AM | 0 recs
Interesting topic

Here in France we have the same discussions.
I think a lot is getting mixed up because this is very emotional.

The benefits of breastfeeding for bamies and mothers are now well established. It is the duty of health authorities and medical personel to inform future mothers about this fact, so that they can make an enlightened choice.

Some complain that this entails the risk of making mothers who chose not to breastfeed feel guilty. It all depends on the manner. The problem - in France at least - is that health professionals are not trained to deal with patients in a truly respectful way. Hence a general tendency to tell people what they should do and to make them feel bad if they do not complain. This has nothing to do with breastfeeding. In fact many health professionals are becoming aware of that and work to change their attitudes, but as a whole they still have a long way to go.

Nobody in their senses would argue that one shouldn't mention the risks of tobacco for fear of making smokers feel guilty. The fact that bottle feeding presents risks for babies (and mothers) also creates an obligation to inform.
If information is not given respectfully, one should blame the manner of informing, which is not often the case.

Now there's also the attitude of friends and relatives. Of course that is very variable, in France there is some social pressure against long term breastfeeding or breastfeeding in public, but there is also a fair amount of support and I guess support is gaining ground. Here again this has got nothing to do with breastfeeding as such, it is a matter of respecting other people's choices.

My son, who is 10 years old now, has been breastfed for about 4 years, I have been a supportive dad. Breastfeeding is the natural continuation of pregnancy. The human baby is born premature, and he needs the physical contact of his mother's body, and her milk, during the first year of his/her life. I am deeply convinced of that. I am equally convinced that a mother can bottlefeed his/her baby and be a loving mother all the same - still, the baby is missing something.

by french imp 2009-03-25 11:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Interesting topic
Oops : I meant 'and to make them feel bad it they do not comply' - not 'if they do not complain'.
They should comply without complaining!
by french imp 2009-03-25 11:17AM | 0 recs
Next topic: Videotaping deliveries

Next topic: Videotaping deliveries.
Tacky or not tacky?

Next topic: Is a liberal husband more likely to be in the delivery room with his wife more than a conservative husband? Would a liberal wife be more likely to be pissed off if he isn't in the delivery room?

by Pravin 2009-03-26 09:00AM | 0 recs
to each her own

I personally favor birth photography, which I think is less inhibiting for women who need to make noise during labor.

Even if you don't photograph the birth, definitely have a camera on hand to photograph that newborn squashed face, because that goes away so fast!

by desmoinesdem 2009-03-26 04:44PM | 0 recs

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