Clinton campaign missed opportunity during 4th of July parades in the Des Moines suburbs (w/poll)

Yesterday afternoon I was with the Edwards group in the 4th of July parade in my little corner of the Des Moines suburbs (Windsor Heights). Like most campaigns, we had a truck with a big sign and some people throwing candy to the kids lined up along the parade route.

We didn't have many stickers to hand out, because those were mostly used up in the bigger parades held in West Des Moines on the evening of July 3 and Urbandale on the morning of July 4. (Edwards did well in all of the suburban Des Moines precincts in January 2004.)

The Obama and Richardson campaigns took part in the Windsor Heights parade as well, handing out stickers to lots of people along the route.

No Clinton supporters or campaign representatives were there.

More about the parades on the flip.

What is the point of participating in these parades, you might ask? It's not just for visibility, although that is always nice for any candidate.

For the length of the 2-mile parade route, three or four Edwards supporters (I think they were interns or field organizers) were walking close behind the truck with supporter cards on clipboards. They were watching to see who applauded and waved as our truck passed by.

A campaign intern and I were riding in the truck for most of the way, helping these people spot supporters while we threw candy to the kids.

Since I live in the neighborhood, I recognized some people I knew to be Edwards supporters among the spectators.

The people with the clipboards were able to run over and have supporters sign cards right there. Most of them checked the box promising to support John Edwards at the Iowa caucuses. Others checked the box saying they would like more information from the campaign. They all filled out their names, addresses and phone numbers.

The rule of thumb is that 85 percent of people who sign a card pledging to support a candidate at the caucuses will follow through and caucus for that candidate. Every campaign wants to get as many of these signed cards as possible.

In the space of an hour, the Edwards campaign was able to get around 15-20 people in my suburb signed up as supporters. They got more than 65 supporter cards signed during the larger Urbandale parade yesterday morning. I didn't catch the number for the West Des Moines parade, which is the longest parade route in our area.

My husband was watching from the side with our kids. He said he was pretty sure there was at least one Obama supporter walking around with a clipboard, in addition to the people handing out stickers. He couldn't recall whether anyone from the Richardson group was signing up supporters, but they certainly gave out plenty of stickers.

We were all surprised that the Clinton campaign wasn't around. At first I thought they were probably focusing on the larger parades, but a friend who went to the Urbandale parade said Clinton wasn't there either. No one I know marched in West Des Moines this year, but the Edwards people I was with didn't think Clinton had a vehicle in the West Des Moines parade either. (Normally a campaign would do all of these parade if they were doing any of them.)

I can't understand why the well-funded, well-staffed Clinton campaign would miss out on this opportunity to identify and sign up supporters, or at least get Hillary stickers on a bunch of people. Those stickers are visible all day and evening as people go to parties, concerts and fireworks displays.

Dodd and Biden are campaigning in Iowa this and have much smaller staffing here, so I understand why they couldn't spend the resources on parades. They probably needed the staff to keep the events running smoothly.

I am scratching my head about Clinton, though. Obama is in Iowa this week too, but he made sure to have a highly visible contingent at all the parades.

UPDATE: Settle down, Clinton supporters, I am aware that Bill and Hillary marched in Clear Lake, Iowa yesterday. My point in this diary was that the Clinton campaign missed an opportunity to identify and sign up supporters in the much more populous Des Moines area. Clear Lake is in Cerro Gordo County, which will assign 46 of the 2,500 state delegates up for grabs in the Iowa caucuses. Click here for a list of delegate counts for all 99 counties. Polk County, where Des Moines and most of the suburbs are, will assign 357 state delegates, about 15 percent of the total in Iowa. All of the campaigns are trying to get supporter cards signed at candidate appearances around the state. But it's also helpful to have staff and volunteers getting these cards signed at other place large numbers of people gather. SECOND UPDATE: Changed title to appease some whining Clinton supporters who still can't understand the point of my diary. I had tried to make the original title a little more concise. My point is that no campaign should give up a great chance to identify and sign up potential supporters six months before the caucuses. THIRD UPDATE: A commenter at Daily Kos keeps saying he or she called the Clinton campaign, and they said they were at the Windsor Heights parade. I just got off the phone with the assistant city manager of Windsor Heights, whom I know, who coordinated the parade. I asked him to let me know all of the campaigns who were represented in the July 4 parade. He mentioned Biden (I hadn't seen them), Edwards, Obama, Richardson and Brownback. I specifically asked if the Clinton campaign was there, and he confirmed that no, they were not there.

Tags: 2008 elections, Barack Obama, Bill Richardson, Chris Dodd, Democratic Party, Hillary Clinton, Iowa Caucuses, joe biden, John Edwards (all tags)

Comments

98 Comments

Re: Clinton campaign missed 4th of July parades (w

Colorado is also a caucus State...all new cards are important...interesting observation.

by DenverD 2007-07-05 05:52AM | 0 recs
Parades

Parades can be a royal pain in the behind for campaigns. Candidates can't be everywhere at once, nor can their campaigns. It's a judgment call of the campaign - what's the best use of personnel and resources at the time. You make choices.

As for candy. Throwing candy in a parade is a deal breaker for me when it comes to working for a candidate. That's one of my inviolate "upfront" rules on the table when I'm in discussion about working with a candidate. It's a waste of the campaign's money (8 year olds don't vote) and you take a campaign ending risk if your campaign's parade vehicle runs over a kid who darts into the street to grab some candy. It's to the point that I station parade volunteers at every corner of the vehicle to watch for kids (because they're still darting for everyone else's thrown candy).

by Michael Bersin 2007-07-05 05:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Parades

well, most of the time, it is grassroot groups who enter in a parade not the campaign itself, and this showes that Hillary dose not have to many people in Iowa to walk 1 mile for her, that is not that good in a caucus state.

by Mbon007 2007-07-05 06:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Parades

Michael, the Clintons actually walked in the Clear Lake parade and worked the crowd.  This diary is bogus.  

http://www.globegazette.com/articles/200 7/07/05/local/doc468c68830de93887554180. txt

by georgep 2007-07-05 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Parades

yes I know this it was all over the news, and I should have re worded my response.

I did not mean the candidate, all most all candidates walk in a parade on the 4th.

I ment in every other parade the candidate is not in is, most of the time not organized by the national campaign, and is organized by local grass root groups.

I was trying to prove the point in my response that in Iowa Hillary dose not have as much local small town grass roots support, at least not comapered to Edwards or Obama.

by Mbon007 2007-07-05 09:59AM | 0 recs
Clinton campaign missed 4th of July parades

I think the Clinton campaign had a couple of representatives marching in the Clear Lake parade.

You might have seen it on the news.

by hwc 2007-07-05 06:05AM | 0 recs
you mean this

MASON CITY -- Mason City VFW members are refusing to march in the Clear Lake Fourth of July parade Wednesday because they are not being allowed to fire their rifles.

The Secret Service, in Clear Lake to provide protection for former president Bill Clinton and his wife, presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, will not allow firearms in the parade, said Jim Kantaris, quartermaster of VFW Post 733 in Mason City.

"There's too much political stuff. They're making us change 50 years of tradition because of two people," said Kantaris. "And one of them is a draft dodger who turned the White House into a whorehouse."

by TarHeel 2007-07-05 06:14AM | 0 recs
Re: you mean this

And I'm sure that Clear Lake was diminished by not having the opportunity to see Kantaris fire his gun in the parade.

Kantaris should have marched with Romney. I hear he's a big hunter.

by hwc 2007-07-05 06:18AM | 0 recs
Re: you mean this

yeah- that's how you win votes- putting down a tradition that harms no one. if they were shooting at people then sure, but firing a gun is pretty much like fireworks in this context.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 06:22AM | 0 recs
Re: you mean this

The Secret Service has its rules.  Most people would respect the Secret Service in this context; this guy is an obvious Clinton-hating partisan from his quote.

by Steve M 2007-07-05 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: you mean this

Spin this in  your mind as you want- the fact remains it was their tradition, and it annoyed them to have to change it. they are the voters- they are the people clinton has to convince- not me, and referring to the secret service or how you think they should have reacted to them is irrelevant.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 06:52AM | 0 recs
Re: you mean this

You bring up a great point, but then so does Steve...   It seems like the better idea is to make sure it is never an issue and either send others to march in the parade or square it away weeks in advance.  

by yitbos96bb 2007-07-05 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: you mean this

that's a fair assessment- honestly one of the things thats bothering me online amongst the hrc supporters are in their attempts to project the invitability meme they act like things like this don't matter. when organization and messaging are especially crticial at the grassroots and its part of how the GOP beats us or has been int he past until 2006. i dont want to see 2008 be a top down campaign whoever the nominee is. the point is don't take these things for granted.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 11:11AM | 0 recs
Re: you mean this

What I am saying is that I won't take the word of an obvious Clinton-hater as evidence that all sorts of regular folks were ticked off.

by Steve M 2007-07-05 11:28AM | 0 recs
Re: you mean this

if you were smart, which is clear you aren't, you would notice that the diary actually is something that could help clinton. for example, if yo uwere smart you would read what the "obvious" clinton hater has to say about why the parades were important, why he or she called the edwards campaign to make sure they were out there, etc. that's if you weren't so busy calling anyone who disagrees with you a hater. as i keep saying this style and approach by her supporters on line more than anything concerns me about the general. if she is going to have a shot int he general, if she gets the nomination, it can not be based on a top down approach. it's about organization, volunteers and people ont he ground. something the left has traditionally been bad at. it will require listening to people who are actually in the places in question. that would be the smart approach. what concerns me here is the hit first, not figure out whether someone is saying somethin valuable approach.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 11:43AM | 0 recs
Re: you mean this

Wow.

You think someone who called Bill Clinton "a draft dodger who turned the White House into a whorehouse" is not an obvious Clinton-hater.

You do understand that I responded in this thread to that particular quote, and that when I said "this guy is an obvious Clinton-hating partisan from his quote," I was referring to the quoted person and not the diarist... right?

A guy says Bill Clinton turned the White House into a whorehouse, and your response is that he's just one of those regular folks who got ticked off and anyone who discounts his opinion is just spinning.  And you question my intelligence, huh?

by Steve M 2007-07-05 12:51PM | 0 recs
Re: you mean this

The Secret Service would have required the same from a visit by George H.W. Bush or Obama for that matter. This "news" is only provided as a hit piece in a vain attempt to paint the Clintons as somehow anti-American. The so-called draft dodger was also Commander in Chief. Apparently this VFW quartermaster doesn't respect that.

by DoIT 2007-07-05 06:54AM | 0 recs
Re: you mean this

I always forget all the Clinton Draft Dodger issues, since it turned out to not be a big deal in the election... besides the VP is as much a draft dodger as anyone, Bush was AWOL from the National Guard and  Obama was never of age to be drafted while a draft still existed.  

In todays age, Military experience can be an asset, but not having it won't necessarily hurt you... after all, Gore and Kerry both had much more service than W (of course Jeb fixed the first election...)

by yitbos96bb 2007-07-05 11:01AM | 0 recs
I was aware of that

I have a farmer friend from around there, she was planning to attend the Clear Lake parade.

John Edwards and Bill Richardson are not even in Iowa this week, yet they had vehicles in all the major parades around Des Moines.

Why didn't the Clinton campaign, is all I was wondering. Seems like they missed a chance to identify and sign up supporters.

by desmoinesdem 2007-07-05 06:30AM | 0 recs
Re: I was aware of that

Based on your experience, could you give me a rating of the top (3) organizations in IA at this point in time.

I am orginally from Minnesota, but my IA friends say that Edwards has the strongest organization in IA followed by Obama and then Clinton.

Also I know that IA has a state fair in mid Aug. I believe it is set up so people can vote their preference for the nomination. I believe each party has a booth to do such voting.

How important is this fair and does it give a sense of support for each candidate.

by BDM 2007-07-05 06:58AM | 0 recs
Re: I was aware of that

John Edwards and Bill Richardson are not even in Iowa this week...

Yes. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why the Edwards campaign has gone dark this week. The candidate is apparently holed up at home in North Carolina.

I can understand not going to Iowa over the holiday. The political oxygen was pretty much sucked out of the state by the Hill and Bill show. But, to go completely dark?

I wonder if he is having a big campaign strategy trying to figure out how to retool before he falls of the map?

by hwc 2007-07-05 07:06AM | 0 recs
It's Elizabeth's birthday...

maybe he's home just chilling with her. Maybe the guy who makes heart shaped pancakes for his wife on valentine's day might just keep her off the trail for her birthday? Maybe he just wanted to go to a barbecue with his family just like every other American on the fourth? Doubt it will have much effect on his supporters in Iowa.

by cosbo 2007-07-05 07:12AM | 0 recs
Re: I was aware of that

Seems like they missed a chance to identify and sign up supporters.

If you were a hard cord Clinton supporter (i.e. the kind who would spend all night at a caucus), don't you think you probably would have gone to one of the Hill and Bill shows?

I watched the Clinton's get supporter cards signed for 45 minutes along the rope line in Des Moines.

Each of their events was preceded by a private session with several hundred organizers led by the Clintons and the Vilsacks.

by hwc 2007-07-05 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: I was aware of that

i dunno, i've often been told in iowa that iowans don't come to politicians, politicians come to them.  if they didn't campaign someplace that was within the weekly radius of an iowan's travels, they'd be unlikely to show.

i think your point about having organizer's meetings is more relevant, but it sounds like they don't have faith in their grassroots supporters to allow them to do things without them...

by bored now 2007-07-05 07:54AM | 0 recs
Re:

So, this diary is really bogus and the headline of it garbage, then?    After all, the Clinton's actually MARCHED in the 4th of July parade, which is of course the exact opposite of MISSING the 4th of July parades:

http://www.globegazette.com/articles/200 7/07/05/local/doc468c68830de93887554180. txt

The Clintons were at the front of the parade and Romney, several units back. But all of them beamed as they walked the route shaking hands, signing autographs and posing for pictures.

Bill Clinton was dressed in blue polo shirt and bluejeans. Hillary Clinton wore a white blouse and khaki slacks. They walked hand in hand along the route, sometimes peeling off, him to one side of the street and she to the other, to greet the throngs of spectators, many of whom held up signs and shouted "We want Hillary."

Romney heard chants of "Let's Go Mitt" as he greeted people along the route. Dressed in white shirt and khakis, Romney had his red, white and blue "Mitt-Mobile" behind him, a specially-equipped recreational vehicle driven by his son, Josh.

John Cobb, co-chairman of the parade, estimated the crowd at 45,000.

"We had about 35,000 last year and I'd say there were at least 10,000 more here today," he said.

....

One of the early arrivals Wednesday was Vera Angel, 78, of Mason City, who was there two hours before the parade started. Accompanied by her daughter, Angel sat in a wheelchair decorated with red, white and blue streamers and positioned herself to get a good glimpse of the Clintons when they arrived.

She admitted to being a Hillary Clinton fan. "She's got it up here," said Angel, pointing to her head.

Jeannine Chambers, an Arizona resident spending the summer in Clear Lake, said, "It's kind of a neat thing to see the a person who is running for president and a past president."

Julie Zwald, a former Clear Lake resident now living in Farmington, Minn., came back for the parade this year for the first time in about five years.

"I'm not here to see Bill and Hillary," she said. "I'm here because it's Clear Lake and it's the Fourth of July."

Al and Nancy Gabel of Mason City arrived at 8 a.m. and got a position on the curb. They both shook hands with Hillary Clinton as she walked by.

"It's very exciting," said Nancy.

Al said he doesn't know who he is supporting for president, but "we live in a great country where we get to shake hands with our leaders."

Tyler Arnburg, 14, of Clear Lake, was taken aback when he got a good look at former president Clinton. "He looks like he's 90 years old," he said. "I thought he was younger than that.

"Even if I don't support him, I still respect him," said the young man. "It's pretty cool to see a president."

---------------------------------------- ----------------

I am very surprised to see someone supposedly connected to the Iowa "ground" craft a diary so false and misleading.   Can you please explain how the Clinton's MISSED Iowa's 4th of July parades when indeed they WALKED in one, shook a lot of hands, apparently got a lot of people excited.    

The sensational headline of this diary is misleading and completely false, in other words, a lie.   Please change it to reflect reality.  

by georgep 2007-07-05 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re:

The diarist is talking about the "grassroots", representation at other parades in the state of Iowa.  And how at this diarist parade the volunteers were out enforce for Edwards, signing folks up to caucus, saw Obama folk out there, and even Richardson.  But not for Clinton.  Of course, no one would expect them at every single parade, but you would expect your volunteers out there signing folk up to caucus and what not.  That is the premise of the diary.

by icebergslim 2007-07-05 07:39AM | 0 recs
Missing the point

The diary is missing the point.

Let me give you an analogy. Suppose my company sells Jimmy Buffet t-shirts. On a normal holiday weekend, I would set up my booths at a couple of dozen small music and arts festivals, figuring there will be a few Buffet fans at each one. It's inefficient, but taken all together, I sell some t-shirts.

But now, let's suppose that Jimmy Buffet is giving five concerts in my area that weekend. Am I going to send my guys to the little music and arts festivals? Heck no. I'm going to send all my guys to the Jimmy Buffet concerts and sell more t-shirts than I would normally sell in a month.

The Hill and Bill Show was the big event in Iowa this week. If I want to get cards signed by Clinton supporters, I would have to be a brain dead marketer to not throw all of my resources into those events.

Edwards and Richardson did not have that option. They were trying to pick up the scraps in Iowa this week. Even Obama, who spent three days in the state, was completely overshadowed.

by hwc 2007-07-05 08:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Missing the point

He is getting news on msnbc and the ap. So Obama was not over shadowed and is getting press time.

by BDM 2007-07-05 08:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Missing the point

Yeah, but his media coverage is all coming from the peppering of Clinton questions he got from the media at his news conference yesterday.

Talking about the Clintons is the last thing Obama wants to do. It's "off message" and likely to get him slapped silly again.

by hwc 2007-07-05 09:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Missing the point

Does it matter that much?  He was getting coverage, period.  He is all over the newspapers, etc.  Geez, arguing over how much coverage someone is getting?

by icebergslim 2007-07-05 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Missing the point

Yes, it matters.

The press peppered Obama with Clinton questions. That's all they asked. That's not what a candidate wants.

Obama tried his best to answer diplomatically, but he gave the Clinton campaign some openings if they choose to slap him around. Attacking Bill Clinton is a major risk for a Democratic candidate.

by hwc 2007-07-05 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Missing the point

No.

It's the perfect strategy. Seeing that Hillary has demonstrated that she cannot compete one on one with Obama , dragging her husband to every Black event, having Bill talk about Obama as opposed to doing it herself, Obama is going to the source. Bill Clinton. Bill is the one who decided he could take Obama on. Obama is just responding and if you don't know what happens when you attack Barack Obama and he responds, just ask John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich. If you still don't think it's an effective strategy, perhaps I can translate it into a language you understand.

New North Carolina Poll:

Obama 59% Black Vote
Clinton 19% Black Vote
Edwards7% Black Vote

Now, do you understand ?

by BlueDiamond 2007-07-05 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Missing the point

Presumably the Clinton campaign can walk and chew gum at the same time.

by clarkent 2007-07-05 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Missing the point

I don't know... from some of the politicial campaign consultants, workers, etc I have met from several different campaigns (not just Hillary) it wouldn't surprise me if many could not walk and chew gum... there are a lot of very smart and very stupid people in politics (which explains a lot if you think about it)

by yitbos96bb 2007-07-05 11:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Missing the point

I meant the campaign as a whole.

As desmoinesdem points out, Obama's campaign staff were able to support his appearances and get volunteers into several 4th of July parades. The Edwards campaign is not nearly as well funded as Obama or Clinton, yet managed to get people out around the state. Why couldn't Clinton do the same?

by clarkent 2007-07-06 01:51AM | 0 recs
it's not either/or

Clinton has piles of money. I wasn't suggesting that her campaign should have participated in the parades around Des Moines at the expense of her events with Bill.

Obama managed to have staff handling his events in Iowa yesterday while still having a presence in the parades.

by desmoinesdem 2007-07-05 11:30AM | 0 recs
Re:

Thanks for keeping your comment out of the personal realm this time.  It can be done and is ultimately more constructive and productive vs. the other stuff.  Again, thanks, and keep it up.  

by georgep 2007-07-05 08:10AM | 0 recs
Re:

George, settle down!  If you actually read the diary, it was asking why the Clinton campaign didn't have any presence in the Des Moines area parades.  It was a simple question about strategy, that's it.

by minvis 2007-07-05 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re:

The headline states "Clinton campaign missed 4th of July parades" which is misleading and false.  

by georgep 2007-07-05 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re:

George your are trippin'!!  Really, calm down.  You read the diary and it even states "Clinton Campaign".  Man, anything that you don't like about your girl, even proven true, you can't take it.  Again, these candidates are people, and flawed ones at that and definately NOT PERFECT.  You are getting upset over absolutely nothing.  And yes, why was her organization not on the ground at these parades, throughout the state?  I went to my local parade and Dan Seals was there.  He is running against Mark Kirk.  So, yes, their presence and volunteers do make a difference.

by icebergslim 2007-07-05 07:47AM | 0 recs
Re:

This diary must have hit a nerve with George. He is loaded for bear this morning. George take a couple of deep breath's and everything will be all right.

by BDM 2007-07-05 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re:

You write anything negative about Hillary Clinton, even though proven true, he is ready to throw his laptop out the window.  You would think actually KNEW her.

by icebergslim 2007-07-05 07:50AM | 0 recs
Also throwing out zeros

uprated 2 of your posts as I can't really find anything worthy of trollrating in either of them

by okamichan13 2007-07-05 08:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Also throwing out zeros

ppl get angry when you state a truth.  look this diary is about the organization of not being at some parades.  big deal, that is for the clinton campaign to figure out.  and ppl get upset at any criticism about HRC.  hell, take the criticism and fix what is wrong!!!  this is coming from someone on the ground, fix it.

by icebergslim 2007-07-05 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Also throwing out zeros

I don't mind constructive disagreement, not one iota.  That is what we are here for.  But the personal stuff is unwarranted.   I don't constantly attack her with "Geez, one would think you are in love with the man.  Is he your new husband now?"  

We are all posters with opinions, nothing more.  Personal stuff is trollish, as it is meant to incite and ultimately, if the other side responds in kind, leads to flame wars.  I am not here for flame wars.  Others apparently are.   Keep the personal stuff out of postings.  If it appears in posts addressing me, instead of engaging in the flame I will respond with ratings.  If the post addresses the issue at hand and keeps personal attacks and insults away from discourse ( = discussing as adults should) then the post is addressed and a constructive discussion is possible.      

by georgep 2007-07-05 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Also throwing out zeros

"I don't mind constructive disagreement, not one iota."

who are you kidding with this one. and as for trolls- give me a break - have you read some of the hrc supporters comments here? i mean really, and then you turn around and praise them for their even handedness. the thing is - i've had reasonable conversations on here. i know what they look like. you aren't one of the people i can say i've ever had one with. it's funny how nearly everyone, including big tent democrat has had run in with you over your bias and he actually like hrc as a potential candidate, and your reaction is always the same. we are trolls and biased. are you really that blind to how you come off to people?

by bruh21 2007-07-05 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Also throwing out zeros

I'll repeat this again:  Leave personal flame stuff out of discourse.  It is that simple.  When you do all is well.  Whatever your position, it is your personal position, which really is no better than anyone elses, just yours.

I believe you have been warned a couple of times for this penchant to engage in name calling by Jonathan Singer and I recall this hilarious line you gave him:  "If I think someone is an idiot, why should I not be allowed to call him an idiot?"  which was of course met with a rather astounded response from Mr. Singer.  Name calling should not be condoned, it is flame.  If your passion takes you to that place, don't let it.  

by georgep 2007-07-05 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Also throwing out zeros

I am sorry-d id ou answer my critique or pretend like I have done something trollish by asking you to stop flaming every diary critical of HRC, even fair ones.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 10:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Also throwing out zeros

Exactly!!  But gets upset because the diarist wrote a diary, who was on the ground, about observation that the clinton camp was a no presence at the parade he/she was at?  And has a hissy fit.  Gee, these are just people, not GOD or GODDESS.  And I don't care about zeros, what does that mean to me?  For stating a fact, he can not even handle criticism about his own candidate.  He can't.  

by icebergslim 2007-07-05 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Also throwing out zeros

You are still not getting it, but have your own hissy-fits if it pleases you.  Just don't ATTACK PERSONALLY.  Does that concept not sink in?   Go after the issue in question, or the opinion.  Don't CARE so much about the person behind the post.   It is tedious and non-productive.  

As for this diary, the headline has been changed.  It previously was incorrect, as at least at ONE of the parades there was major presence on both the actual candidate and the staff handing out buttons, flyers, etc.  

by georgep 2007-07-05 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Also throwing out zeros

i can expect you to lie so here's a commment below to illustrate the point. tell me what has a poll got to do with ground present in a state?

June 20 Mason Dixon Poll (none / 0)

If the June 20 Mason Dixon poll is anywheres near correct you anti-Hillary folks better come up with something a whole lot better than she missed a parade.

If Hillary were to squeek out an Iowa win its all over before it even starts.

by dpANDREWS on Thu Jul 05, 2007 at 12:52:39 PM EST
[ Reply to This |

by bruh21 2007-07-05 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Also throwing out zeros

and there comes confirmation right off the bat:

"i can expect you to lie"

This personal attack would usually get me to downgrade your post, but I'll leave it at that in the spirit of the discussion here.    Keep it above board.  As Singer mentioned, name calling is never acceptable, in fact it is trollish behavior (meant to intice a flame war.)  

BTW, I downrated DoIT's post a few days ago (a Hillary supporter) for calling an Obama poster an "idiot," and also followed up with a post to him that name calling is not ok.

by georgep 2007-07-05 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Also throwing out zeros

again- did you respond to the poster flaming this diary below or just trying to pretend as several of you do- that every time someone sticks your personality types into how these conversations go, they are name calling. like i said i have had reasonable conversations with peop who wanted to have reasonable conversation on here. even ones where we disagreed alot. i cant say ive ever seen that with you. so yes this is about you and the way you approach every comment as torch earth politics. when you start answering actual questions when they raised rather than attacking attaking attacking- then you will see a different appraoch by me. as others along this thread have noted who has felt your approach is so over the top and that of other hrc's supporters that its hard to have a conversation. no one less than jerome armstrong had to tell one supporter to cut out the spin in the middle of the diary on WI's strawpoll. It's really getting exhausting to always hear "hillary haters." it's childish and manipulative- is met with the same tirades.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 10:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Also throwing out zeros

I have had lots of great conversations with others here, including Obama fans and Edwards fans.  Some of the rabid ones, meh.   I notice that you are very insulting as a matter of course, and it was comical to see you warned by admins here for your personal attacks just to state back that you thought it was ok to call someone an idiot if you thought they were "idiots" and, since that was not allowed, that you would try to be "nicer."       I guess some will never learn.   Sad, really.

by georgep 2007-07-05 02:50PM | 0 recs
you've been giving zeros

out for stuff isn't personal attacks. Looked through the hidden comments and uprated a lot of the posts you had rated.

It seems like pure disagreement.

by okamichan13 2007-07-05 03:36PM | 0 recs
Re:

I have seen the awesome reception the Clinton's received at the Clear Lake parade (linked to above,) so, yes, a misleading headline that tries to make it look like there was no parade presence whatsoever is, IMO, wrong.  

BTW, I hope you have finally gotten my info that, yes, indeed, I am familiar with Iowa, I even lived there for half a year.  Hope we are clear from now on.

by georgep 2007-07-05 07:57AM | 0 recs
Re:

I know they need to stop using that "yesterday" speech, nobody want yesterday, nor can we go back to it.  

by icebergslim 2007-07-05 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re:

Bill Clinton is the Democrat's Ronald Reagan. The icon of the party.

Obama's effort to market against Bill Clinton is a losing proposition in the Democratic party.

Frankly, Obama's campaign made a strategic blunder this weekend. They should have sent the candidate to New Hampshire or South Carolina or somewhere far from Iowa. That way, he could have campaigned without every question from the media being about Hillary and Bill Clinton.

by hwc 2007-07-05 08:07AM | 0 recs
Must disagree...it's actually TOO GOOD...

that John Edwards will get the nomination.

by cosbo 2007-07-05 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re:

"Bill Clinton looks and sounds 90 years old."

Hahahaha!

Funny that you would quote a 14 year old boy. That seems the appropriate mentality.

by DoIT 2007-07-05 08:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton campaign missed 4th of July parades (w

I was in a fairly large Iowa parade over the weekend in which Obama was the only candidate (Democratic or Republican) represented.

It probably had to do with the attention given to the Clear Lake parade, which is about an hour away from here, and the inability of the campaigns at this early stage to marshal enough support to execute two similar events in relatively close proximity (though the Obama campaign also had a strong presence in the Clear Lake parade).

by Max Fletcher 2007-07-05 08:27AM | 0 recs
whereabouts?

Too bad the Edwards folks missed out on your parade!

I've been saying it for months: Edwards and Obama will have the biggest volunteer armies before the caucus. Clinton has a talented and experienced staff, but she will struggle to attract the kind of volunteers who do grunt work in their neighborhoods and towns.

by desmoinesdem 2007-07-05 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: whereabouts?

That does say a LOT about Obama.  Not taking anything away from Edwards who has a phenomenal Iowa organization, but to get to the level Obama has in 5-6 months is pretty impressive.

by yitbos96bb 2007-07-05 11:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton campaign missed 4th of July parades (w

So this maybe more a sign of that they are just starting to organize rather than anything else? Shouldn't they be starting this earlier or what is the tradition in Iowa?

by bruh21 2007-07-05 08:35AM | 0 recs
June 20 Mason Dixon Poll

If the June 20 Mason Dixon poll is anywheres near correct you anti-Hillary folks better come up with something a whole lot better than she missed a parade.

If Hillary were to squeek out an Iowa win its all over before it even starts.

by dpANDREWS 2007-07-05 08:52AM | 0 recs
Re: June 20 Mason Dixon Poll

And where is george comments about trolls here? i doubt we will see one.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 09:03AM | 0 recs
Doesn't change the point of my post

Hillary has to be beaten Iowa (I think she has to come in third) for anyone else to have a shot.

by dpANDREWS 2007-07-05 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Doesn't change the point of my post

if you say so

by bruh21 2007-07-05 10:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Doesn't change the point of my post

Actually, as much as it kills me to admit, I think he is right, UNLESS she isn't leading in the polls come January.  If she is leading by 10+ points in the national polls and wins Iowa by 4-5 points or higher, I'm not sure how another candidate can win, unless a big gaffe or miracle happens (such as a big Feb 5 performance making it a race.  If one candidate is leading significantly after Feb 5, its over.  Two close and its gonna be a race!

by yitbos96bb 2007-07-05 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Doesn't change the point of my post

i THINK IF oBAMA WIN'S AND SHE PLACES 2ND HE STILL CAN WIN THE NOMINATION.

by BDM 2007-07-05 11:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Doesn't change the point of my post

Obama could run the table if he wins Iowa, Hillary will probably run the table if she wins.  Edwards could run the table or make it a contest witht he second place Iowa finisher (if that person wins NH)... It will be interesting.

by yitbos96bb 2007-07-05 11:54AM | 0 recs
Re: June 20 Mason Dixon Poll

That poll shows  a 3 way tie MOE with un-decided leading at 27%. Therefore organization and people on the ground will make the difference.

by BDM 2007-07-05 11:26AM | 0 recs
Agreed

I still think Edwards is the man to beat in Iowa.

by dpANDREWS 2007-07-05 04:35PM | 0 recs
Clinton campaign missed 4th of July parades

This is factually wrong. Please either change the title to reflect the truth - she marched in the Clear Lake parade - or remove the diary.

Or I suppose you could title it:

"I want everyone the think Hillary Clinton didn't bother to march in an Iowa parade, she's an awful person don't you know?"

by SF Bay 2007-07-05 09:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton campaign missed 4th of July parades

the diary is about grassroots support by volunteers.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 10:53AM | 0 recs
you missed the point

and I tried to change the title, but the new title doesn't seem to be showing up on the rec list, only when you click on the diary link:

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2007/7/5/93 76/90765/50/post#here

The Clinton campaign missed a chance yesterday to sign up a bunch of supporters in the Des Moines suburbs, which will elect a lot more delegates than the Clear Lake area.

They should have had a campaign truck with some staffers at all of the parades, just like the other major candidates did.

by desmoinesdem 2007-07-05 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton campaign missed 4th of July parades

No, you are wrong.  It says Clinton campaign, not Clinton herself and it says missed 4th of July parades, not parade.  There is more than one parade, BTW.  And as was pointed out in the update, the parades that were missed were near Des Moines, which carries a large portion of the delegates in the caucus.  Finally, Desmoinesdem mentions that it wasn't just the parade she was at but two others in the Des Moines area that failed to have any campaign presence from the Clinton campaign.

I read the diary as a critique on the Clinton campaign for missing a potential opportunity to try and lock up support early.

by minvis 2007-07-05 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton campaign missed opportunity during 4th

I think this new title is more accurate. So my hat's off to you for correcting it.

Though I still think it's stupid to write a diary on there strategic decision of where to parade. There's so many factors that can go into deciding what to do or not to do in a campaign.

Maybe their micro targeting said :

there are more undecided voters at Crystal Lake

or there more Clinton supporters who would  work on the campaign

or Crystal Lake voters are more likely to vote during the primaries

etc,etc,etc

Any smart campaign uses surgerical strikes rather than big blows. You said Edwards signed up 15-20 people.For all you know the Clinton's could've signed up 20-25 people.

Anyways, the point is that campaign's do things for a reason. It's dumb to question them on a completely small issue like a parade.

by world dictator 2007-07-05 11:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton campaign missed opportunity during 4th

how is questioning the actions of campaigns dumb- if more people had question in the past perhaps we would have won more elections. i trust someone local who knows the state to know what to do. ironically he's making points to help her campaign and the reaction is to put him down for doing so.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 11:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton campaign missed opportunity during 4th

See my comments below.

I'm not saying never question a campaign I just think this is a dumb issue to question and impossible to make an accurate/informed argument of whether they campaigned in the right place or not. I think I've laid out a few of MANY different reasons they could have choosen to campaign somewhere else

by world dictator 2007-07-05 11:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton campaign missed opportunity during 4th

i read your comment- are you from there? because my thing is- i am not. so i would never as you are doing presume to say whether the diarist is correct that the parades are an important tale. by making that assumption you are indeed saying no questions because you are disparaging him for asking.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton campaign missed opportunity during 4th

i think the point being made is that all campaigns, even the ones that raise $10M/mo, have to conserve resources -- and thus are required to allocate scarce resources.  personally, i doubt that people outside the midwest understand the importance and opportunities in these local parades, but the point is still valid: all campaigns have to make decisions about time, money and energy and not everyone's going to agree with the decisions that get made...

by bored now 2007-07-05 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton campaign missed opportunity during 4th

PS. I'm not saying we can never question and/or speculate in regards to a campaign. My only point is

1. Who cares where they paraded at? I'm sure they didn't randomly pick a spot. Unless you know their strategy, IE why they chose their location, its hard for you to say they made a mistake or miss an opprotunity.

2. Without knowing how well the Clinton campaign did   you can't make an informed argument of whether they were wrong in their parade location choice.

by world dictator 2007-07-05 11:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton campaign missed opportunity during 4th

You're just not getting it.  It's not where Clinton herself decided to march in, it is where were the local field office staff and supporters in Des Moines.  Hell, how hard would it have been to get 3-6 local supporters of Clinton to march in a 4th of July parade and sign people up.  Not only does it give you a presence in the community, but it may even give you more volunteers down the road.

Again, it was a missed opportunity by the campaign.  Really, we're not criticizing Hillary personally, just her Iowa campaign field staff.

by minvis 2007-07-05 11:33AM | 0 recs
now I know what to write about

in the next installment of my "How the Iowa caucuses work" series.

Why supporter cards matter and why campaigns should not miss any opportunities to get them signed.

How often are thousands of people lining the streets while vehicles pass by slowly enough for campaign staffers on foot to talk to the spectators? Parades are a good chance to make contact with a lot of people in a short time.

How long would it take for campaign workers to call that many people? And would they even reach them by phone, given how many people screen calls and don't call back when a campaign organizer leaves a message?

I called my field organizer last week to make sure the Edwards campaign would be represented in my parade and to volunteer to help.

If the Edwards campaign had blown off these events I would be annoyed.

by desmoinesdem 2007-07-05 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

i would like to know those things. the arrogance above is a little annoying by the otehr poster. i assumed you knew more about local politics there. and it w ould help those of us who don't understand it fully to see that.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

Tell me how "knowing local politics" makes any difference. I would have the same argument if this were a Nevada or a California parade, the two area's I'm from. Being from the area doesn't mean you know which area's are likely to be Clinton supporters or Edwards supporters. It also does not mean that you have a monopoly on the cost benefit analysis that they choose.

by world dictator 2007-07-05 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

you are being serious? you don't know how being familar with local poliitics might matter with winning a state? i can only hope that hrc believes this, because i will worry less that she will become the nominee.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 11:55AM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

Answer my question then. How is being from a state valuable when it comes to identifying targeted voter consitency?

by world dictator 2007-07-05 12:53PM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

you know- i am having a rational conversation with someone else and its made me realized I am wasting my time with this conversation. good luck.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

I think its funny that you get proven wrong and name call and/or run away. I haven't called you any names or treated you with any disrespect. I just disagree with you and can back my arguments up. You refuse to respond to any of my points. Its not my fault. shrug I hope your other conversation is more fruitful.

by world dictator 2007-07-05 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

I've worked as a paid staffer on several political campaigns. From state senate to federal Senate. I know how campaigns work thank you very much.

You and Minvis just "don't seem to get it". And people , it ain't complicated. If the Clinton's looked at their data and said they could get more cards signed by sending all of their "troops" to location X rather than splitting their troops up between location X Y and Z then obviously they should send all their people to that one location X.

This isn't a Clinton campaign disagreement this is a  campaign philosophy disagreement. And looking at your responses you just keep repeating the same thing and not responding to my points for why they might have justifably choosen to campaign where they did.

by world dictator 2007-07-05 11:49AM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

did you work in Iowa and are you from there? If not- what's your point? that you know better than the locals who are campaigning there? again hubris- it gets you everytime. yours is that i know better than they do. the poster above is stating why they thought it matters and was asking about it.

by bruh21 2007-07-05 11:54AM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

Oh, please!  Why would you send up your local Des Moines supporters to Clear Lake?  We are not talking about where Hillary was.  Where were the local Des Moines Clinton supporters?  You're telling me that the campaign made a concious choice to send everyone up to the parade Hillary and Bill were at? And if so, why send them up to a county that hardly gives you any delegates?

I've worked in campaigns, too, thank you very much, and it just doesn't make sense!

by minvis 2007-07-05 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

Perhaps because Des Moines isn't Clinton friendly territory so she wanted to focus on getting delegates from undecided voters.

Perhaps because Des Moines delegates seem to have made of their mind and Crystal Lake has more undecides

etc,etc.

Not everyone prefers a throw mud against the wall and see what sticks strategy. Some people prefer a targeted strategy.

by world dictator 2007-07-05 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

That's what we're talking about, a targeted strategy.  What other days are you going to have hundreds of people in one place that you can talk to and get them excited about the campaign?  All we're talking about is 5-10 people with a Hillary '08 banner, some stickers and a clipboard.  These don't even have to be paid campaign workers.  They can be volunteers.  It doesn't take that much work or effort to at least have a minimal showing at these parades.

by minvis 2007-07-05 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: now I know what to write about

your next installment?

by bored now 2007-07-05 02:55PM | 0 recs
Clintons paraded in Clear Lake, Iowa

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/070 7/4770.html

In front of 70,000.

by dpANDREWS 2007-07-06 08:51AM | 0 recs

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