Edwards Breaks Free

It will be difficult for John Edwards to win the nomination. No one should be deluded about that; I don't think anyone is. But Edwards supporters (I'll presume to speak for all of us) are more excited than ever. We like the positions he's taking, the rhetoric he's using, the way he's running. If he loses, it will be on his own terms. Last week, he hired the leaders of the "Wake Up, Wal-Mart"campaign. Next week he'll take a break from campaigning in early primary states to focus on poverty in the South and Midwest.

And if amid our excitement you discern confidence, that's because we know his message will resonate with voters as they compare the candidates. Also because we sense in Edwards a freedom that's rare for a top-tier presidential candidate. He's relatively free from the ties that normally bind candidates. Conventional wisdom, the approval of the Establishment, pressure from big donors: none of this is constraining him.

He's a liberated poltician, and a liberated politician is a beautiful and dangerous thing.

Be bold. That's the message of ninety percent of Daily Kos diaries. We want Democratic pols to do what's right, to dispense with conventional wisdom, to defy the MSM and the consultants. Easy for us to say. If it were easy to do, we'd see more bold politicians and campaigns. Boldness requires a combination of political circumstance and personal strength. You have to be both lucky and good.

Lucky might seem a strange word to describe a poltician who's received a barrage of unfair press for the mistake of a staffer; but Edwards is blessed with, among other things, a Southern accent and personality (and yes, looks, goshdarnit) that allow him to defy charges of extremism. Ezra Klein points out that he, "can talk of populism and class in terms that would get most any other candidate labeled a Leninist...John Edwards can speak truths about the country that the other Democratic candidates cannot." Put another way, he can run a proud progressive campaign without worrying (too much) about electability.

Edwards is also fortunate to be running for president right now, at this moment in history when all polls show that the country is taking a dramatic turn to the left. Longstanding economic inequality--plus Bush and the blogosphere--have made the country safe for a bold progressive presidential campaign. I knew John Edwards was the candidate for me when I heard him say that Iraq had forever changed the politics of national security--a basic truth that many politicians in Washington are still unable to grasp.

But sensing an opening is one thing, taking it is another. Even if a politician's path to victory clearly lies on the left, it takes courage to go that way. In another diary, I discussed the internal and external sources of Edwards's sharpened progressive populism. Edwards has largely rejected the consultant and corporate-approved caution that's prescribed in DC as readily as Xanax. He's thinking big.

There are different ways of talking about and thinking about Edwards's policies and positions; how you choose to do so depends on your point of view.

If you're Wall Street pimp Jim Cramer you try to scare people by claiming that Edwards is "Public Enemy Number One." If you're John Nichols of the Nation Magazine, you say his strong stands

challenge corporate power -- in ways that neither Clinton or Obama has so far done. He's talking about the need to change free-trade policies that have cost the U.S. jobs and security, and he does not hesitate to suggest that corporations and the wealthy should pay their fair share of the nation's tax burden.

If you're Stu Rotherberg, captain of conventional wisdom, you blast his "instatiable desire to run to the left." If you're Paul Street of Z Magazine you point out that Edwards

speaks insistently and repeatedly about and against the growing chasm between rich and poor within the United States. He has the most progressive and detailed health care proposal - the only truly universal plan - among the top-tier Democratic candidates. He advocates rolling back Bush's tax cuts for people who receive more than $200,000 a year to fund truly universal coverage.

If you're me, you say that he's offered a comprehensive program to address our most pressing problems, a program to help the poor, the working class, and the middle class, a Kenysian program of public investment that would stimulate the economy and create jobs. However you choose to describe his program, there's no question that we're not in Triangulationland anymore, Toto.

It's more than just policy; it's the assumptions that flow into, and from, policy. He says things that a respectable pol isn't supposed to say. That he cares more about social programs than a balanced budget. (And that you have to choose between the two.) And that the much praised 1996 Welfare Reform Bill was actually pretty bad. And that the concept of a Global War on Terror is full of doodie. An Edwards presidency would change the turf on which politics is played.

With his platform making it difficult for him to raise money from the rich donors, I was concerned that he might do what it takes to hang onto those he had. How wrong I was. He's received more cash from Fortress Investment Group, a hedge fund, than from any other entity; yet he recently took a stand for economic justice and came out in support of new taxes on hedge fund managers and partners.

And here's something you probably didn't know. He's proposed to combat frivolous lawsuits--a move that has angered some trial lawyers and allowed other candidates to tap into a group of funders that had previously given overwhelming support to Edwards. While opposing GOP-style tort "reform," he would require lawyers to get medical lawsuits reviewed pre-trial by a board of experts.

He's running a bold campaign, and with his donor base expanding and his lead in Iowa holding despite a lot of bad press, he's poised to make it even bolder. Certainly, he has room to move. I'd love to see him more directly oppose the Secret Trade Deal. (Please!) And focus on our insane criminal justice policies, especially the War on Drugs. And widen his critique of the Global War on Terror into a more general denunciation of militarism. I also hope that he comes to recognize the importance of talking about the Arab-Israeli conflict (as Barack Obama has, to his credit). Silence on this issue shouldn't be an option.

The humorously premature obits of the Edwards campaign--bursting with wishful thinking--tell me that his opponents understand the threat he poses. And judging by the arguments used against him, critics don't quite know what to do with him. Sometimes they claim he's a phony, a smear that disintegrates in his passionate presence. Other times they contradictorily claim both that he's no more progressive than other top candidates and that his plans are too ambitious. Ambitiousness is essential to his progressivism, to any progressivism. A small-thinking progressive is an oxymoron.

With six months passed since he announced his run and six months to go until the first primary, Edwards has built the foundation for a campaign that will appeal to progressives who are fed up with incrementalism and ideological surrender, who hunger for the full loaf. Here's Jerome Armstrong:

It becomes clearer with each week that there is a large gap that is both partisan and new progressive, which Obama and Clinton fail to attract. It's also a division of those whom are basically catering to the corporate donor class for their large numbers raised, and a failure to not speak to Democrats who want to re-establish equality in the tax structure.

Gore is whom many hope would fill the void of having a candidate whom is both partisan and progressive, but if we are in October and Gore's still not in the race, Edwards is going to be in position to rise with momentum going into the primary and caucus period.

All of which is not to say that Edwards supporters don't have concerns. We have eyes and ears. We're impressed by the skills of Senators Clinton and Obama. We worry about New Hampshire. We hope despite ourselves that the media will start to focus on substance.

But we like where Edwards is. Liberated, he'll force Clinton and Obama to take positions they wouldn't have otherwise (He already has.) And he'll take positions the other two won't dare take. He'll lose the right way, or win the right way. He'll do himself proud. He'll scare the hell out of the other candidates.

       Progressives for Edwards - Progressives for Edwards - Progressives for Edwards

Tags: John Edwards, populism, progressvism, the whole loaf (all tags)

Comments

91 Comments

Crossed posted

I forgot to put that in:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/7/12/1265 3/1976

by david mizner 2007-07-12 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

Win or lose, he has clearly enriched this race.  In a way it was good for him to be on the sidelines instead of in the Senate.  All top-tier candidates are way to the left of center, which is a good thing.  I believe the CW that they are hurting themselves in the GE by doing so is wrong.  The country has moved to the left, fast, and IMO, lastingly so.   Our top candidates (Clinton and Obama) are well positioned for the general instead of not so well as media CW wants you to believe, thanks in part to Edwards.    

by georgep 2007-07-12 08:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

Thanks for finally giving Edwards a little credit George. I finally rated one of your comments. You get a 3 for that one.

by RDemocrat 2007-07-12 10:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

You are not here often enough (I guess) to see the nuances of discussion and banter.   What I have stated has always been my stated opinion.   Edwards has done us all a service by moving the entire field leftwards.  He is also a good man who cares.   That is always what I have maintained, and will continue to do so.  

There are obvious problem areas, which serve to explain why he is where he is today, but it depends on the discussion at hand whether it makes sense to bring those up.  

by georgep 2007-07-13 04:54AM | 0 recs
Huh???

Edwards has done us all a service by moving the entire field leftwards.  He is also a good man who cares. That is always what I have maintained, and will continue to do so.

Well hey George, please do not tell me that you are now about to go all mushy and softhearted! Maybe now I've seen it fucking all. Maybe this is my cue to jump off the political blogger ship.

by blues 2007-07-13 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

Thanks georgep

by Progressive Populist 4 Edwards 2007-07-12 11:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

Edwards breaks free...of his past.  

by DD2 2007-07-12 08:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

In part, yes--ain't nothin' wrong with that. Called growth, and progressives are supposed to value it.

by david mizner 2007-07-12 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

Nothing wrong with growth, just doesn't make you the best to hand the shop over to so quick.  You look at the rhetoric on the War and GWOT just 4 years ago and it's pretty extreme.  He's only 2 years out from working for a Hedge Fund who was practicing predatory lending in New Orleans and sheltering money in off-shore accounts.  I'd like to see some consistency in the guy which extends beyond an election cycle.  

by DD2 2007-07-12 09:10AM | 0 recs
nice try, Doug

Er, a hedge fund can't practice predatory lending. And Edwards got the firm to end their practice of offshore tax shelters.

by clarkent 2007-07-12 09:15AM | 0 recs
You Edwards supporters are so fing gullible

From Fortress' own 10-Q SEC filing:

http://tinyurl.com/23yg8s

"Our liquid hedge funds, our offshore hybrid hedge fund and many of our private equity funds are incorporated or formed under the laws of the Cayman Islands. Cayman Islands laws, particularly with respect to shareholders rights, partner rights and bankruptcy, may differ from the laws of the United States. Cayman Islands laws could change, possibly to the detriment of our funds and investment management subsidiaries."

by jforshaw 2007-07-12 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

There's a good honest way to criticize Edwards; you're not quite up to the task.

by david mizner 2007-07-12 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

There's nothing dishonest about being troubled by his war vote or being bothered he would work for a hedge fund and claim innocence about how they invest and where they invest. We can throw around dishonesty labels at each other.  I don't know why Edwards supporters, even if they decide it is not a concern for them, cannot at least give those who are concerned about his recent conversion at least the respect that their concern is genuine.  Instead of addressing the concerns, the approach is always to go on the attack personally.  We are all Democrats.  He is asking for my vote.  He said he made a mistake on the Iraq vote.  He has never explained how he made the mistake, why he made the mistake, or what he's learned by the mistake which would lead me to believe he wouldn't make it again.  

by DD2 2007-07-12 10:13AM | 0 recs
Actually he has repeatedly

explained it.  You just do not want to listen.  

by littafi 2007-07-12 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Actually he has repeatedly

Try me, I'm in a listening mood.

by DD2 2007-07-12 10:41AM | 0 recs
who you gonna believe,

Fortress' own most recent 10Q SEC filing, or your own lying eyes?

http://tinyurl.com/23yg8s

"Our liquid hedge funds, our offshore hybrid hedge fund and many of our private equity funds are incorporated or formed under the laws of the Cayman Islands. Cayman Islands laws, particularly with respect to shareholders rights, partner rights and bankruptcy, may differ from the laws of the United States. Cayman Islands laws could change, possibly to the detriment of our funds and investment management subsidiaries."

by jforshaw 2007-07-12 01:10PM | 0 recs
Re: who you gonna believe,

I'm sorry, I don't understand the point or how it relates to his mistake in Iraq.

by DD2 2007-07-12 01:32PM | 0 recs
Re: who you gonna believe,

I was providing supporting evidence for your contempt for Edwards' work for a hedge fund (Fortress Investment Group aka Fortress)

by jforshaw 2007-07-12 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

The dishonest part was saying predatory lending--it was subprime lending, which is a very different animal.

As for what you call his "conversion," I wrote a long diary about his evolution--plese go to my page and read it (I can't link at the computer I'm on.)It's called JRE's Journey.

As for his Iraq War Vote, I don't have a problem with people who refuse to vote for him because of it. What I have a problem with is the belief among some that everyone should feel the same way they do, and the tendency to keep pointing to his vote as if it's something everyone in sphere wasn't well aware of. It's a dealbreaker for you, fine. Next issue, please?

by david mizner 2007-07-12 01:40PM | 0 recs
here's one

as for a "next issue," could you please explain latest details of Edwards' former employer, Fortress Investment Group, and where its hedge funds are incorporated? Their latest 10-Q states that

"Our liquid hedge funds, our offshore hybrid hedge fund and many of our private equity funds are incorporated or formed under the laws of the Cayman Islands. Cayman Islands laws, particularly with respect to shareholders rights, partner rights and bankruptcy, may differ from the laws of the United States..."

Ok, fine, I probably won't be convinced by what you say (tough to argue with that), but other neutrals and Edwards supporters will still be interested in what you have to say.

by jforshaw 2007-07-12 01:53PM | 0 recs
First, more Iraq

I want to say that I was vehemently, unconditionally opposed to the war. I could show you a video of me at a Howard Dean event in the winter of 03 chastising him for not being sufficiently opposed to the war. Howard Dean.

I wish there was an electable candidate who was as good as Edwards on economic issues and who was opposed to the war. But that candidate doesn't exist. Also, none of the top tier is pure on the war. I'm not convinced that if Obama had been in the Senate, he'd have opposed it. His political caution tells me otherwise.

We have to go to election with the candidates we have, and for the reasons I mentioned, Edwards is really good, on balance the most progressive top-tier candidate in a long time.

by david mizner 2007-07-12 02:23PM | 0 recs
Please address the FIG SEC fillings below.nt

by jforshaw 2007-07-13 05:16AM | 0 recs
It's my

understanding that, yes, Fortress avoids taxes by incorporating overseas. It's also my understanding that as an advisor Edwards worked unsuccessfullly to change the practice, and that as a political matter, he's opposed to it.

Unless and until the law that allows this is changed, and unless and until Edwards gets Fortress to change this practice (Good luck!), I would want Edwards to disinvest from Fortress. Take his money out and invest in a more ethical company.

by david mizner 2007-07-12 02:29PM | 0 recs
Re: It's my

But he still has most of his money in Fortress -- after bitching about this "unsuccessfully" for months.

How is that not a textbook definition of hypocrisy?

by jforshaw 2007-07-12 03:03PM | 0 recs
Re: It's my

Fortress moved to the US after going public.  He may have helped change that.  From an article by Solomon of all people:

Bedingfield said Fortress recently ended its practice of letting managing partners defer their U.S. income taxes by reinvesting profits in the offshore funds. The firm made that change when it went public late last year around the time Edwards ended his consulting arrangement.

"John Edwards believes offshore tax shelters are wrong," Bedingfield said last week. "As president, he will end them. By voluntarily going public, Fortress has ended the practice of using offshore tax shelters for deferred compensation and has committed itself to a whole set of transparency and disclosure obligations that no other hedge fund has committed itself to before."

by pioneer111 2007-07-12 04:43PM | 0 recs
Thanks, Pioneer

I should a little research before I post comments.

by david mizner 2007-07-13 02:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Thanks, Pioneer

David, your initial call on Edwards liquidate his holdings in Fortress are proper.   First we had the off-shore problem, then the subprime lending problem, but they really pale in comparison of what may have happened in the use of tax loopholes when they went public.  This is the type of thing which will not go away, it will just take a while for details to come out because it is so complicated and people are so secretive about finances. But it will come out.  His innocent plea of I had no idea until later only holds up for so many strikes, and this latest one, merely hinted at in the Blackstone articles, may be his last strike.  He needs to get out ahead of this, which liquidating his 10~20 million in assets would be a good step.

by DD2 2007-07-13 11:39AM | 0 recs
To respond:

I'm not about to call you dishonest and I would expect the same respect in return.  Perhaps I should have said subprime, but many people equate subprime as predatory, especially under certain circumstances.  To quote the Washington Post:


The hedge fund that employed John Edwards markedly expanded its subprime lending business while he worked there, becoming a major player in the high-risk mortgage sector Edwards has pilloried in his presidential campaign.

Edwards said yesterday that he was unaware of the push by the firm, Fortress Investment Group, into subprime lending and that he wishes he had asked more questions before taking the job. The former senator from North Carolina said he had asked Fortress officials whether it was involved in predatory lending practices before taking the job in 2005 and was assured it was not.

Subprime loans are aimed at buyers with poor credit histories and charge higher rates because of the risks. Some loans carry fees and large rate increases that are hidden from a home buyer.

Largely as a result of the rise in subprime lending and the cooling housing market, home foreclosure filings rose to 1.2 million in 2006, an increase of 42 percent. At the same time, the drop in value of subprime lenders has presented a buying opportunity for investors such as Fortress.

I've read your piece before, I read it again just now.  I understand where you're coming from and don't dispute a lot of it. The problem is taking your argument for why we should embrace Edwards conversion and making that a reason why we should vote for him for President.  I'm always ready to give people a second or third chance, but it is not dishonest to do that while reserving a part in me to be skeptical.  You bring up an interesting point in your piece which really put me back in that skeptical mode when you mentioned he was for the death penalty before he was against it, but that we should take his initial being against it as an indication of what's really in his heart.  As you say:


Edwards, like all pols, balances his beliefs with his desire to win. Whether in 1998 or 2008, Edwards has shown a willingess to be as progressive--well, almost as progressive--as his context allows.

I don't think his case is "like all pols", I think there's a healthy dose of more so than most.  This new progressive stance is, after all, exactly what the context calls for.  He's not going to out-DLC Hillary, and Obama is a new kind of animal not akin to the red meat politics the Progressive base goes for, so suddenly in that vacuum appears John Edwards.  Is it real, or is it his desire to win?  These are valid questions and the process of questioning honest and valid.

For me, the issue of the War vote as an issue is wrongly portrayed by you.   If it was simply a deal-breaker then there would be no reason to question.  I'm not going to lie to you.  It's not about who I'm going to vote for in the Primary, it is about could I vote for him under any circumstances.  For me, it goes to the heart of do I accept this conversion, do I believe him at all? I have never seen from him an explanation for his mistake, or at least not one that he holds firm to.  In his Op-Ed, he said:


The information the American people were hearing from the president -- and that I was being given by our intelligence community -- wasn't the whole story. Had I known this at the time, I never would have voted for this war.

But in the last debate, he said he was fully briefed and did not need to read the NIE.  This isn't gotcha.  This is tell us honestly what it was, it's give us a reason to believe it wasn't political expediency then AND political expediency now.   We're left with putting our best spin on it, our gut feeling.  My gut feeling is it was political expediency then, and he caved to bad advice. In the first debate he mumbled something to that effect and then crucified Bob Shrum for saying the same.  So don't call me dishonest for saying there's an honesty problem here or for asking you as a supporter to show me the process where you get past this to a point of believing him enough to make him the President.

by DD2 2007-07-12 03:14PM | 0 recs
Sorry

I meant to say he was against the death penalty before he was for it, not the other way around.

by DD2 2007-07-12 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: To respond:

He's not going to out-DLC Hillary, and Obama is a new kind of animal not akin to the red meat politics the Progressive base goes for, so suddenly in that vacuum appears John Edwards.

Edwards was laying out a platform for a run while Obama was repeatedly denying that he would get into the race. Whatever you think about the sincerity of John Edwards, Obama's post-partisanship has nothing to do with Edwards' positions on the issues. Edwards could also just as easily have run a "I'm like Hillary, only more electable" campaign, which would have been a lot easier and would have made him a lot more friends and opened more doors, whatever the outcome.


   
The information the American people were hearing from the president -- and that I was being given by our intelligence community -- wasn't the whole story. Had I known this at the time, I never would have voted for this war.

But in the last debate, he said he was fully briefed and did not need to read the NIE.

This isn't mutually exclusive. As a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Edwards received regular classified briefings that included the same information that was in the NIE. But there was also information that the Bush administration left out of those briefings and the NIE that would have raised alarm bells. Edwards' position is pretty simple. He should have been more skeptical. He blames himself, not just Bush.

by clarkent 2007-07-13 02:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free
Obama and Hillary haven't apologized for voting with Rethugs to fund the war and vote against timetables - justifying it with the rightwing frame of "supporting the troops."
A year ago - ONE YEAR AGO - Obama voted against Kerry's bill for redeployment. Then just before he announced for prez, sponsored a redeployment bill last Jan. Then in March voted with Rethugs to continue funding the war until the "job is complete." Then in May - kept his vote on funding the war a secret - until he voted.
Obama claims to "oppose" the war but has never explained his "inability" to vote against it.
by annefrank 2007-07-12 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

He did that to study their effects on fighting poverty. Look at what that study led him to conclude:

http://www.johnedwards.com/news/press-re leases/20070711-carried-interest/

Sounds pretty consistent to me. How about facts instead of opinion?

by RDemocrat 2007-07-12 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

Hilarious.

Edwards "works" for Fortress for two years (or whatever), gets paid raw compensation of hundreds of thousands of dollars, and getting enormous returns by putting the MAJORITY of his own assets in Fortress.

Judging by Fortress' own performance, Edwards made lots more in return on the millions he invested with Fortress, than he did as a joke "economic consultant." And guess where some of Fortress,' and John Edwards' superior returns come from? Paying taxes at the capital gains rate (15) instead of the top marginal rate (35)!

That is what "carried interest" is. It's a way for a lot of hedge funds to have their profits taxed at 15 percent instead of 35 percent.

I happen to favor carried interest. Funds that specialize in very high risk investments get massively, disproportionately penalized by a higher marginal tax on profits, relative to funds and companies that work with lower risk products/ markets/ whatever. Better to have them here and tax them at a lower but realistic rate than drive them offshore (which is what a lot of them, including a bunch of Fortress' own funds, have done).

However, what Edwards is doing here is BEYOND hypocritical. He has made literally millions partially thru carried interest himself. He is either mind-bogglingly stupid or recklessly hypocritical by saying that Fortress was about "studying the relationship between capital markets and poverty." Edwards is just betting that his supporters are so seduced by his southern drawl that they believe whatever shit he feeds them in re Fortress. Seems like it was the right bet to make.

by jforshaw 2007-07-12 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

To repeat my post above.

Fortress moved to the US after going public.  He may have helped change that.  From an article by Solomon of all people:

Bedingfield said Fortress recently ended its practice of letting managing partners defer their U.S. income taxes by reinvesting profits in the offshore funds. The firm made that change when it went public late last year around the time Edwards ended his consulting arrangement.

"John Edwards believes offshore tax shelters are wrong," Bedingfield said last week. "As president, he will end them. By voluntarily going public, Fortress has ended the practice of using offshore tax shelters for deferred compensation and has committed itself to a whole set of transparency and disclosure obligations that no other hedge fund has committed itself to before."

Edwards seems to have convinced one hedge fund to do the right thing.  I like his persuasive abilities.  

Part of alleviating poverty is understanding the movement of capital and investments.  There is no reason not to believe him.  The fact that he also invested through Fortress may be due to the fact that he felt they were ethical in their approach.  

Your so-called analysis and negative attributions are just bunk.  Get all the facts.

by pioneer111 2007-07-12 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

This is hardly fact based.  Edwards was asked what he did at Fortress in the George Stephanopoulis interview and  in fact he said he didn't know they were doing off-shores until after he left and describes his work there as "general advice".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADwjvAs9J -0

by DD2 2007-07-12 05:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

DD2 - prior to Edwards working for Fortress in 2005, he had already implemented plans for his college scholarship program for poor kids - and Fortress knew he'd been the "2-Americas" candidate, fighting for the working class.

http://johnedwards.com/news/headlines/20 070511-college-opportunity/

During the time Edwards worked at Fortress how do you know that his positions didn't influence Fortress??

by annefrank 2007-07-12 08:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

I'm just going off what he has said.  He said his job was of a general consulting nature and he wasn't aware of their off-shore accounts.  Look at the Stephanopolis interview.  His words, not mine.

by DD2 2007-07-12 10:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

Well look at the words from the guy at Fortress.  One would think you were from Faux News the way you can never give Edwards any credit for doing something right.  Some of us do acknowledge when Obama has said or done something that warrants it.

The man lost a son, decided that public service is what his purpose in life should be.  His wife gets cancer and is treated in 2005.  He then decides to run a campaign the way he and Elizabeth want to and not by consultants.   To be a president you have to have connections at all levels of society and the economy.  You also need to be clear about your values.  

Are you this cynical of anything Obama says?  Edwards is a great Democrat.   You may be supporting Obama for your good reasons.  But your constantly twisting facts even when rebutted or given additional information is very disingenuous.  The only saving grace is that most people here now discount what you say.  

by pioneer111 2007-07-13 05:52AM | 0 recs
cynical for a f'ing reason

Far be it from Fortress, which has gotten all kinds of associative guilt from Edwards' hypocrisy, to defend their $487,000 intern. I am shocked--shocked, to find a conflict of interest with that establishment!

Edwards talks a great game now. He just never lived his life that way. That truth is what makes a lot of us cynical, and it also has no relevance whatsoever to the tragedies which have afflicted Edwards and his family.

by jforshaw 2007-07-13 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

Pioneer, you say Edwards influenced Fortress's decision making around the time they went public.  I say that's not true based on Edwards statements about the work he did there and his self-described lack of knowledge they were involved in off-shores during the time of his employment.  You then say I am twisting the facts. You say I am disingenuous. You say I'm like Faux News for never giving him any credit.  You start off by saying look at the statement by the guy at Fortress.  

So I go back and look at the article, I look for the words of this guy Bedingfield and I find this:


Fortress spokeswoman Lilly Donohue declined to comment on the employee contributions to Edwards or Edwards's employment. Kate Bedingfield, a spokeswoman for the Edwards campaign, also declined to address the Fortress donations.

I'm not going to call you names.  I'm sure it was an honest mistake.  But make up your mind - should we give Edwards credit for the behavior of Fortress around the time of them going public or not?  Remember, credit can come in two forms, positive and negative.  I don't want you to think I'm being disingenuous so I'll give you a hint.  You may want to read the NYT piece on Tax Loopholes surrounding The Blackstone Group before responding.

by DD2 2007-07-13 07:46AM | 0 recs
You don't know WTF you're talking about.

Any company that floats an IPO in the United States has to have some kind of vehicle with which to do it. Fortress' vehicle is "Fortress Investment Group LLC," ticker symbol FIG.

They STILL have lots of offshore vehicles in which to place their assets. Just because they don't move some American money (derived from their highly successful NYSE IPO) to their Cayman Islands vehicles doesn't mean they aren't doing shitloads of business in the Cayman Islands from older money. The IPO money is simply harder to "reinvest" into the Caymans for very pragmatic reasons.

Fortress did raise a bunch of money in a newly created US vehicle. It did not "move to the US."

Here are Fortress' own SEC filings (http://tinyurl.com/28b4u3)

CUSIP No.  822809109                                          Page 7 of 21 Pages
- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
1        NAME OF REPORTING PERSON
         S.S. OR I.R.S. IDENTIFICATION NO. OF ABOVE PERSON
         Drawbridge Global Macro Fund Ltd.
- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
2        CHECK THE APPROPRIATE BOX IF A MEMBER OF A GROUP
         (See Instructions)        (a)  |   |
                                   (b)  |   |
- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
3        SEC USE ONLY

- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
4        CITIZENSHIP OR PLACE OF ORGANIZATION
         Cayman Islands
- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
                                   5        SOLE VOTING POWER
            NUMBER OF                       -0-
                                   ---------------------------------- -----------
             SHARES                6        SHARED VOTING POWER
                                            -1,043,840-
          BENEFICIALLY             ---------------------------------------- -----
                                   7        SOLE DISPOSITIVE POWER
            OWNED BY                        -0-
                                   ---------------------------------- -----------
              EACH                 8        SHARED DISPOSITIVE POWER
                                            -1,043,840-

            REPORTING

            PERSON

             WITH
- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
9        AGGREGATE AMOUNT BENEFICIALLY OWNED BY EACH REPORTING PERSON
         -1,043,840-
- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
10       CHECK IF THE AGGREGATE AMOUNT IN ROW (9) EXCLUDES CERTAIN
         SHARES (See Instructions)

- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
11       PERCENT OF CLASS REPRESENTED BY AMOUNT IN ROW (9)
         5.5% (based on 18,871,308 shares of common stock outstanding as of
         May 1, 2007)
- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
12       TYPE OF REPORTING PERSON (See Instructions)
         OO
- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
* Solely in its capacity as the sole limited partner of Drawbridge Global Macro
Intermediate Fund LP.

<PAGE>

                                 SCHEDULE 13G

- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
CUSIP No.  822809109                                          Page 8 of 21 Pages
- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
1        NAME OF REPORTING PERSON
         S.S. OR I.R.S. IDENTIFICATION NO. OF ABOVE PERSON
         Drawbridge Global Macro Fund LP
- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
2        CHECK THE APPROPRIATE BOX IF A MEMBER OF A GROUP
         (See Instructions)        (a)  |   |
                                   (b)  |   |
- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
3        SEC USE ONLY

- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
4        CITIZENSHIP OR PLACE OF ORGANIZATION
         Delaware

=====

You see that? Drawbridge Global Macro. It has a vehicle in Delaware and a vehicle in the Cayman Islands. Got it?

Now, I'm going to move on.

"
Item 2.

        (a)    Name of Person Filing:

        This statement is filed by:

(i)    Drawbridge Global Macro Master Fund Ltd., a Cayman Islands company, directly owns shares described herein;

(ii)   Drawbridge Global Macro Intermediate Fund LP, a Cayman Islands limited partnership, owns approximately 89.6% of the issued and outstanding shares of Drawbridge Global Macro Master Fund Ltd.;

[goes on to list all the vehicles of Fortress, but the important fact is that the Cayman Islands vehicle owns 90% of ALL THOSE COMPANIES].

In other words, it's 89.6% a Cayman Islands company, and you just got called out for regurgitating more hasty, CYA bullshit from the Edwards campaign.

He's a fraud. Get used to it.

by jforshaw 2007-07-12 05:37PM | 0 recs
No response?

Figures.

by jforshaw 2007-07-13 03:07AM | 0 recs
Still waiting for a response, guys. eom

by jforshaw 2007-07-13 05:09AM | 0 recs
YOU don't know WTF you're talking about.

You sound like a 20 year old know it all.  Don't tell me that I don't know WTF I'm talking about.  Your understanding of life experiences is so miniscule it is hardly worth responding to such schoolyard taunts.  Further there is nothing to reply to.  Your post is selective to advance a frame you know nothing about.  You are so juvenile in your attitudes you wouldn't know complexity if it is in front of your eyes.  Oh wait it is and you can't sort through it.

For others who may be interested - there was a great diary at Dkos about Hedge Funds, Lending, and Basic Finance by aldon who worked on Wall street for many years including working with hedge funds.  He explains how they work and the fact that there is nothing wrong with them, it depends on the people running them.

That said, hedge funds attempt to be as secretive as possible.  People must sign non-disclosure agreements with the funds.  When people leave hedge funds, they often need to sign agreements not to disclose any of the secrets of the hedge fund.  So, don't expect anyone who has worked for a hedge fund to disclose a lot of information about what they did there.  They may be contractually obligated not to.

There is actually a good reason for this.  Trading strategies typically aren't protected by intellectual property laws.  Even if they were, it would be nearly impossible to enforce.  So, the only way to protect the competitive edge that one hedge fund has over another is secrecy.

This nothing illegal about hedge funds.  However this hedge fund supports Edwards in his agenda.  That tells me that hedge funds participants and managers may also be patriotic about something other than profits but may want to have a level playing field with all others.  Thus they support Edwards agenda in spite of the fact that it may seem against their own interests.

I want to conclude with aldon's final paragraph:

The attack dogs of the mainstream media may be ignorant of basic finance, or they may simply choose to ignore basic facts of finance to facilitate their attacks, but those of us who try to ferret out what is really best for our country through our participation in blogs online communities and online information gathering surely can do better than that.

We have a few of our own attack dogs here.

by pioneer111 2007-07-13 06:19AM | 0 recs
Outstanding non-respose

I am very pro-hedge fund, first of all.

That doesn't change the fact that your earlier assertions, e.g., "Edwards may have gotten Fortress to move to the US," are not true.

Just because you're US fund doesn't mean you have to disclose any strategies to anyone. You don't need to move offshore, and have 89.6% of your entire company/ basket of companies ultimately located in the Cayman Islands, to do that.

You are completely changing the subject from "Edwards is STILL a hypocrite on hedge funds, because Fortress is an 89.6% Caymans company and Edwards has millions still invested with them," to "Edwards doesn't think hedge funds should be banned!"

You're re-framing what I did say -- that Fortress is a Caymans company, an exact "loophole" which Edwards bitches about all the time -- as a straw man argument and linking to a long, ancient DKos diary hoping that somebody can dig up something that refutes a strawman argument which I never made.

There are very good reasons for hedge funds to move offshore; it makes life a lot easier for them, particularly with regards to frivolous tort litigation, taxes which are not disproportionately punitive to high-risk investment, and so on. I think they make very good sense.

Unfortunately, judging from his own war-on-wall-street rhetoric, Edwards either learned absolutely nothing from his half a million dollar internship with Fortress, or his chutzpah is even more staggering than I had thought. He is STILL taking advantage of the very "loopholes" he decries. This isn't even a late, politically convenient pirouette. He is living hypocrisy.

Try again.

by jforshaw 2007-07-13 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Outstanding non-respose

J, you'll be interested to read this article about the tax loophole strategy of taking a hedge fund public:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/busine ss/13tax.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=s login

by DD2 2007-07-13 07:51AM | 0 recs
Yup...

From the middle of the article....

"Other private equity firms and hedge funds that have gone public, or plan to, make use of similar techniques, their documents show.

The Fortress Investment Group, which went public in February, uses a form of this tax structure. Two funds that plan to go public soon, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts and Och-Ziff Capital Management, describe similar tax strategies in their preliminary disclosure documents. "

Edwards is pathetic.

by jforshaw 2007-07-13 09:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Yup...jforshaw is pathetic

Fresh Troll Rolls - Yum!

1 medium sized troll
1 cup minced garlic
1/3 cup olive oil

Mix the oil and garlic.  Rub the mixture over the troll.  Roast over an open flame until crispy brown.  Serve immediately.  (serves 4-6)

by JollyBuddah 2007-07-13 10:58AM | 0 recs
TR me all you want

First Edwards "didn't know of" Fortress' use of offshore vehicles--which he blasts as part and parcel of the Gilded America--, then he "got them to change their policies" (ludicrously implausible AND disproven by Fortress' own financial statements).

All the while, Edwards has kept millions in assets invested in Fortress.

He's clueless, or he had to have been lying. Troll ratings do not change that.

by jforshaw 2007-07-13 11:21AM | 0 recs
What a putz

You're harping on a non-issue. Your arguments and the importance you give this non-issue are a trollish distraction from a genuine dialogue.  

by JollyBuddah 2007-07-13 11:41AM | 0 recs
You wish

Edwards' living hypocrisy were a "non-issue."

That's one thing the polls are not in disagreement about.

by jforshaw 2007-07-13 12:56PM | 0 recs
Re: You wish

I agree with you. Thanks for posting this information.

Just one more reason I don't trust this guy further than I can bowl him.

What a fake he is!

by lafinur 2007-07-14 11:50AM | 0 recs
Good diary - recc'd

I am not an Edwards guy.  Mostly because I feel strongly that the DKos "Be Bold" meme is a serious miscalculation of our country's politics.  I believe that creating consensus is the only way to a more progressive future, and that doing so takes time.  The notion that what has been lacking all of these years is a Presidential candidate with "passion" seems a bit shallow to me.

All of that said, I really like John Edwards and value the face that he has given to progressives.  While the Nader's and Kucinich's are easily dismissed by the populace as third tier gadflys, John Edwards presents an attractive and substantial looking view of our left flank.  As you say in your diary, he pulls the entire debate to the left.  More importantly, he paints a picture of that far left wing that is not peopled by "kooks" as the GOP  constantly wants to paint it, but rational, sober and passionate patriots.  

I am an unabashed Obama supporter.  I think he is the right man for this moment in time, as we are largely transitioning out of the Reagan/Bush/Gingrich/Limbaugh era of conservative domination and into a more progressive time.  I think Obama is the right man to make that transition.  When he is finished, I sincerely hope he will hand our country over to a man like John Edwards who can take us a several more miles down the right path.  I would pull that lever proudly.      

by AdamSmithsHand 2007-07-12 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary - recc'd

you've got it exactly backwards. ;)

by clarkent 2007-07-12 08:40AM | 0 recs
Yep! he's got it backwards
But centri$t candidates usually lure supporters with the "consensus-bipartisan" approach. It sounds good - but it ALWAYS leans right, not left.
Obama is simply using the same strategy as other centrists like Hillary and his mentor, Lieberman. In fact, consensus building was one of Lieberman's biggies last year as he told voters he could "work across the aisle." A zillion diaries were written by Lamont supporters saying it was merely a centrist position and he'd flip toward Rethugs as soon as elected. And now Connecticut is stuck with him for 5 1/2 more years.
by annefrank 2007-07-12 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary - recc'd

I'd have to say I agree with almost everything you've said. I think it's been great to have 3 candidates in the debate, and I think it's great that Edwards has shifted his positions and language in a way to appeal to people in the progressive internet community. But I also think that MoveOn/Daily Kos/MyDD and the rest of the netroots deserve more credit than any single candidate for such a shift: they helped make it possible to take these positions and still be a viable candidate.

Ultimately, I like Obama better as well, but not because I think he's a first step towards a John Edwards. I appreciate his consistency with progressive issues, his dedication to spending his career working on behalf of such issues, and his intelligence and judgment. I also appreciate the sincerity with which he hopes to build national consensus around the progressive movement's ideals. These are the reasons I've been able to get excited about a candidate in a field basically taking the same positions on all the issues (I think this similarity in proposals and positions is a reason why Edwards hasn't been able to distinguish himself from Obama and Clinton outside the netroots).

by Max Fletcher 2007-07-12 08:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary - recc'd

There are some important differences between the positions of Edwards and that of Obama and Clinton. And I think the reason Edwards has distinguinshed himself in the netroots is because of the high volume of high-information and high intensity people here. As more people outside the sphere get more interested and more informared, Edwards numbers will rise, I believe. Will they rise enough? No idea.

by david mizner 2007-07-12 10:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary - recc'd

What do you mean by netroots?  

by DD2 2007-07-12 10:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary - recc'd

I don't understand the troll rating for a question.

The phrase "netroots" is the internet version of the "grassroots". It is a hybrid group of activists that intersects and overlaps with the grassroots.

by JollyBuddah 2007-07-13 11:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary - recc'd

That was my understanding of the definition as well, but I can't see how Edwards can be considered to have distinguished himself in the netroots if that is the definition.  When you take Obama's extraordinary numbers in internet fundraising, both in terms of people and money, coupled with his mobilization of 10,000 people to go out a register voters 6 months before the primary, it would seem this intersection tilts heavily toward Obama.  

So David must be using a different meaning of the term.

by DD2 2007-07-13 11:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary - recc'd

How Edwards has "distinguished" himself in the netroots can have many meanings. I'm not sure how to gauge which candidate has the "most" support from the netroots. Fundraising is one indicator, but far from the only one. Internet fundraising can be accomplished as a supplement to a direct mail campaign.

Heck. Hillary probably has supporters who think she is the darling of the netroots. I saw one comment from some putz who thought Hillary was a big favorite at Mydd. She's probably a little more popular than Lieberman here, but it looks very clear to me that the contest at Mydd is between Edwards & Obama.
The key point is that we have the attention of the candidates.

by JollyBuddah 2007-07-13 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary - recc'd

In order to gauge who has the most influence or support you have to first understand the term, which has always struck me as being vague and usually used to mean "me not you."  Getting 10,000 people mobilized through the internet and emails seems a pretty big indicator of influence.  Having a website with the most traffic of any candidate and more than this one would seem a pretty good indicator of influence.  But those in the netroots would say otherwise.  

by DD2 2007-07-13 12:41PM | 0 recs
The netroots is in flux

Granted. But how you translate "influence and support" into votes is the key. Howard Dean was the first "netroots" candidate and look what the M$M and the Democratic Party did to him.

Whatever the "netroots" is it is more influential than ever and may be just as prone to being manipulated as the grassroots. We have the advantage of connectivity that the grassroots does not have.

I think Obama's netroots support may be a result of his support from students and it is still an open question if they will turn out to vote in mass. I'm just guessing like everyone else here, but time will tell.

by JollyBuddah 2007-07-13 01:01PM | 0 recs
Re: The netroots is in flux

Having attended the Walk for Change, which is the first example of Obama transplanting the netroots into the grassroots, I can attest that it was very much not a meeting of simply facebook activists.  There was a wide range of ages and ethnicities.  

by DD2 2007-07-13 01:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary - recc'd

I also appreciate the sincerity with which he hopes to build national consensus around the progressive movement's ideals.

This is key.  This is one of the chief reasons why I support Edwards over Obama.  Obama believes that you can get bi-partisan support for healthcare reforms, energy reforms, tax reforms by compromise or cajoling the other side.  Edwards is building a coalition of citizens' power that will elect more forceful people party candidates and will move the entire discussion from healthcare reform to single payer healthcare and from coal based energy to green energy. The Democrats compromised away working people's rights and doubled their payroll taxes.  Enough is enough.  With Edwards in the bully pulpit speaking out every day as President, the people will be with him.  We no longer can count on the so-called bipartisanship of a corporate corrupt congress.
Obama may be sincere about trying to find consensus but he's going about it the wrong way.
John McLaughlin of the McLaughlin Report said that the nation is now ready to go "the radical route to traditional liberalism".  Big and bold is where it's at.

by Feral Cat 2007-07-12 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Good diary - recc'd

I feel just the opposite. Hopefully Edwards will eventually hand the reigns over to Obama, who by then will be ready to take them. I don't dislike Obama, I just think Edwards is more ready to lead now. Obama will be in the future.

by RDemocrat 2007-07-12 10:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

What a great, thoughtful, intelligent diary.  You state your case for Edwards without belittling the others.  Your passion for Edwards comes through with every line and you give strong reasons to support his candidacy.  Very well done.

by reasonwarrior 2007-07-12 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

What position do you think Edwards has forced Obama to take a position he wouldn't have otherwise?  

by DD2 2007-07-12 10:22AM | 0 recs
Great diary, David.

Edwards is the most electable true progressive candidate in a long time.

by littafi 2007-07-12 10:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

Great diary.

It will be difficult for him to win the nomination.

But considering Iowa

and

his electability in the general.

it won't be half as difficult as the punditocracy has made it seem.

Look at what happens when he speaks to the kind of audiences that will be a part of the Democratic electorate unlike those used in national polling.

The DNC winter meeting

California convention

Take Back America

Tavis Smiley Forum

He gains A LOT of supporteverytime.

He can move progressive voters.

That is what this is all about.

by Progressive Populist 4 Edwards 2007-07-12 11:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

This is just Edwards propaganda. Honestly can't you concentrate these love-fest diaries into one entry or something?

Its really unbecoming the way Edwards "supporters" or campaign workers (which is what many of these posters are even though they refuse to admit it) post multiple "Edwards is great" diaries and then recommend them to hog the recommended diaries section.

There is an election going on and there ARE candidates other than Edwards. For the Edward love schmooze please direct yourself to the Edwards campaign site an leave the rest of us -the open minded people- alone. Thank you kindly.

And yes, many of us are troubled by his pro-idiotic "war" (if you can call it that) vote and no you have never explained why it is ok to enable a war that is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, wanton destruction, etc. and then ONCE YOU ARE OUT OF POWER suddenly be against the war. Simply apologizing does not demonstrate good judgement and often times apologies can ring hollow.

by lafinur 2007-07-12 12:19PM | 0 recs
And a

conspiracy theorist is heard from.

I'd hate to be in your head.

by david mizner 2007-07-12 01:43PM | 0 recs
Re: And a

And a sack of shit posted above me.

Whats your point?

by lafinur 2007-07-12 02:58PM | 0 recs
Re: And a

>>>and then ONCE YOU ARE OUT OF POWER suddenly be against the war.

Obama "opposed" the war when he couldn't vote against it - then began voting to fund it as soon as he was elected.
Obama then made his "opposition" to the war a basis for his campaign - while minimizing his voting with Dem Centri$ts and Repubs to fund it.  Obama could have been a STRONG voice - LEADING the Senate on opposing the war from the gitgo! Continually speaking out against the war and supporting Kerry's bill last summer for redeployment - but he didn't.
Instead - HE was led.
Obama could have been doing everything possible to end the war and turn our country Left! But he didn't.  Instead he embraced and endorsed the most pro-war warmongering Dem of all - Lieberman!  and refused to be seen with the anti-war Democratic candidate.

And yet - some people believe Obama will "bring the country together" - when it's obvious that he caved to the influence of his peers who also shunned Lamont and "opposed" the war by funding it - allowing the war profiteers to continue making a killing in IraK.  And whose campaigns are the corporatists funding??

Remember Feingold's bill to Censure Bush last year? Feingold stood alone for many weeks - then Harkin and Boxer joined him. Obama voted against Censuring Bush.

by annefrank 2007-07-12 09:21PM | 0 recs
Re: And a

This argument holds no water. I am sorry for you. I know you want it to but it does not work:

OBAMA AGAINST WAR FROM DAY ONE

EDWARDS PRO WAR HAWK FROM DAY ONE (USED WAR ON TERROR FRAME THOUSANDS OF TIMES)

It is not the same to vote for a war to happen as it is to fund operations while you try to bring it to an end which is what, your distortions aside, Obama is trying to do and WILL do.

But I realize you don't care about any of this as for you its all about scoring points for Edwards at the expense of another candidate. Pathetic.

by lafinur 2007-07-13 06:12AM | 0 recs
Re: And a

You answer with Obama talking points but you didn't respond to the facts.

Obama did not speak out against the war in 2005 and 2006 and 2007 until just recently.

Obama did vote for the supplementals in 2005 and 2006.  He only voted against the supplemental in 2007 after the great outcry of Democrats.  He voted for the Gregg amendment even after Feingold explained why it was flawed.  Obama decided to believe Republican talking points instead.  Then he voted against the supplemental in contrast to the Gregg amendment.  What does he believe?  His votes don't make it clear at all.  

Being against the war from day 1 and then voting to keep it going is contradictory.  Obama is NOT the anti war leader in the senate - Feingold is and Obama has not readily supported him.  Edwards is a much more forceful voice against the Iraq occupation and much more convincing about strategy.  Obama will never get 16 Repubs to break rank and cetainly not over 60 House members.  Feingold is the one with the right strategy in the senate.

by pioneer111 2007-07-13 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: And a

This is the conversation I tried to have in another diary ont he subject. That one can not claim that the war is wrong, voting for the war is wrong, and then pour gasoline on the fire to continue it, and claim clean hands. It's simply not credible of any of his supporters here making the statement. I happen to like Obama, and he's number two on my list, but the idea that anyone can claim he doesn't have his hands on this is beyond denial, and falls into worship.

by bruh21 2007-07-14 09:56AM | 0 recs
Re: And a

If you want to be taken seriously why don't you try not going into the hyperbolic and the insulting.  To not agree that de-funding is the most effective and only way to get out of the War is not "pouring gasoline on the fire", and to realize his point of view and the good work he's done in the Senate, which even Feingold has highlighted, does not make one a worshipper. Those type of inflammatory comments only cuts off debate.  

by DD2 2007-07-14 10:23AM | 0 recs
Re: And a

the analogy is one made up by an obama supporter justifying obama's actions. as usual you see what you want to see, and as for hyperbole- i am not the one who was prevously banned.

by bruh21 2007-07-14 02:39PM | 0 recs
Re: And a

by the way- what's cute is the all caps below by one of obama's supports here. yet i am using hyperbole. apparently you don't undesgtand the definition of what  an analogy is.

by bruh21 2007-07-14 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: And a

OBAMA AGAINST WAR DAY ONE!!!!!!!

EDWARDS PRO WAR! SPONSORED WAR RESOLUTION WITH JOE LIEBERMAN!

Edwards helped make the war happen. Co-responsible for war.

THere were other senators who did not vote for the war you know? A war that it was obvious was fictitious. Anyone could tell Bush was looking for any excuse. Edwards let him do it. He is responsible for the war. As a Senator you are responsible for your votes and he botched the most important vote of his career. FACT!

Byrd, Durbin, etc...

THATS LEADERSHIP!

by lafinur 2007-07-14 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: And a

if all of what you just wrote makes you feel better about the choice you are making, keep thinking its true. I am tired of arguing with your denial.

by bruh21 2007-07-14 02:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

It gets a little bit irritating for the rest of us, I agree, but Edwards people probably feel the same way about Obama or Hillary diaries. This is a solid diary and I'm happy David is so excited about Edwards - it is a bit of a love fest, but at least he's enthusiastic about politics, and that can't be a bad thing.

by This Machine Kills Fascists 2007-07-12 07:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

True.

by georgep 2007-07-13 04:58AM | 0 recs
Don't Count him Out

I think he's going to win Iowa.  I just can't imagine the same Iowans that went into the booth four years ago pulling the lever for Hillary or Obama.  Right now, Edwards has the Dean message and none of the electibility pitfalls that upset Dean in Iowa.  We are at the rare moment in American history when the most progressive Democrat is also in the best position to win the general election.  Fundamental realignment.  Trust.

The question is, can Edwards capture the momentum needed to take Nevada and New Hampshire after Iowa?  If he does, he rolls through South Carolina.  Florida is Clinton's firewall, and she'll be tough to beat here, but I think Edwards could have a real shot at it with the momentum of his earlier wins.  I know I'll be campaigning hard for Edwards in Florida should my Gore-dian angel remain aloof in the heavens.

Iowa is a must for Edwards, and I really believe he's gonna win there and win big.

by Lassallean 2007-07-12 12:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

I support another candidate, but I recommended this as a well-written diary.  I agree with much of it.  Edwards' underdog status allows him to take positions on issues that, at least in some cases, push the debate to the left.

by markjay 2007-07-12 09:37PM | 0 recs
I don't understand.

What does he have to break free from?

He is currently not elected to anything and has no constituency to represent.

Looks to me like he is just throwing things out there to see if anything catches people's attention- which is not a bad thing.

by d 2007-07-13 04:48AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't understand.

He is free to do that, because he does not have to answer to an NC constituency.  He throws out stuff, but some of it has pulled the others further left, which is a good thing for us all.  We will still benefit from the more progressive direction the country will take partly as a result of that freedom, even if Clinton is the nominee.  

by georgep 2007-07-13 05:03AM | 0 recs
Re: I don't understand.

Where has he pulled anyone further left?

by DD2 2007-07-13 11:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Breaks Free

Edwards is a good guy... not my top candidate but good.  I'd be proud to support him as the nom; although I'll avoid MyDD for the first week as I think we will get a few obnoxious Edwards supporters if he does that first week ;-)  Of course if Obama or Hillary wins then the same thing will happen.

by yitbos96bb 2007-07-13 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Edwards Keeps Breaking Free

Another example of the new Edwards, which I guess some see as a good thing worthy of rewarding him with the Presidency.  This time it's ex-cons right to vote.  In 2002, he voted against an amendment which would have re-instated their voting rights - the amendment was introduced by Harry Reid and co-sponsored Specter and Russ Feingold. It lost 63-31.  I guess at that time he didn't see how denial of voting rights might disenfranchise a group of people many of whom are poor.

But now he's broken free once again, this time in front of the NAACP and supports re-instating ex-convicts voting rights.  It's becoming worthy of a campaign slogan: Edwards - Keep On, Keep On, Breakin' Free.

by DD2 2007-07-14 12:29PM | 0 recs

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