Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

Senator Barack Obama won a seat in the Illinois State Senate in 1996. He faced no opposition in the primary after his campaign successfully challenged the petitions of his opponents, including Alice Palmer, who had held the seat. How the Democratic challengers for the seat eventually won by Obama were eliminated has been spun by Obama's current opponents for President as unethical. Yet that defamatory characterization is not warranted by the facts.

The Chicago Tribune dredged up the 1996 election recently in "Obama knows his way around a ballot", an article that is balanced as to the facts but presents alot of very negative opinions about what happened. The facts are there but you've got to read through a fair amount of anti-Obama dreck to get at them.

From the article (emphasis mine):

In the early 1990s, Chicago's 13th Legislative District was served in the Illinois Senate by Palmer, who was working as a community organizer in the area when Obama was growing up in Hawaii and Indonesia. She risked her safe seat to run for Congress and touted Obama as a suitable successor, according to news accounts and interviews.

But when she got clobbered in that November 1995 special congressional race, Palmer supporters asked Obama to fold his campaign so she could easily retain her state Senate seat.

Obama not only refused to step aside, he filed challenges that nullified Palmer's hastily gathered nominating petitions, forcing her to withdraw.

From the story it's clear that Palmer went back on her assurances to Obama that she would not run again for State Senate.  After losing her Congressional race she decided to run again for the state seat she'd been ready to abandon by running for Congress. Palmer had even mentioned Obama as her logical successor. Following her loss, when Palmer decided to enter the race for State Senate Obama already had a campaign for that seat in place and refused to quit.

Then Palmer's congressional bid collapsed. On Nov. 28, 1995, she placed a distant third behind political powerhouses Jesse Jackson Jr., who holds that congressional seat today, and current state Senate President Emil Jones Jr.

Palmer didn't fade quietly away. Citing an "outpouring" of support, she upended the political landscape by switching gears and deciding to run in the March 1996 primary for her state Senate seat.

After finishing a distant third in the congressional race Palmer tried to ensure she had no strong opponent in the state seat for which Obama was already running. Obama then refused to go along with her attempt to grease her wheels to victory by staying in the race. Given the fact she'd tried to force him out of the race I think his decision to play hardball at that point reflects well on him.

"I hadn't publicly announced," he said. "But what I said was that once I announce, and I have started to raise money, and gather supporters, hire staff and opened up an office, signed a lease, then it's going to be very difficult for me to step down. And she gave me repeated assurances that she was in [the congressional race] to stay."

Obama "did say that to me," Palmer says now. "And I certainly did say that I wasn't going to run. There's no question about that."

There is zero question that Palmer told Obama she wasn't going to run. She directly admits this. Given that fact Obama's decision to continue with his campaign shouldn't be faulted. He was already running and had even told Palmer in advance that he'd not be disposed to step down once he'd started his run. When Palmer was trounced in her Congressional run and then decided to try to muscle Obama out he did what he said he'd do. He kept running and he ran to win.

What I take as the bottom line from this piece of Obama history is that Obama didn't fold when Palmer went back on her word. He responded to her backtracking by winning the seat using legal means to win. If Palmer's or the other challengers petitions were in order there wouldn't have been an issue. Spinning it as some character issue just falls flat when you consider that none of the candidates for President are saints. For me it does more to answer the question about whether he is "tough enough" than it does to discredit him in any way. Politicians at this level just don't rise that high by living in a Jimmy Stewart world.

Spin on the event can certainly vary. As a Democrat partisan my own opinion is that I'm glad to see Obama is a Democratic politician who is going to fight for every vote and use every legal means to win elections. That's what we need in 2008.

Tags: 1996 Primary "Democratic Primary""1996 Democratic Primary" Obama, 96, Barack Obama (all tags)

Comments

100 Comments

Good job.

Good job for undoing the primary partisan spin and great diary.

by lovingj 2007-06-02 01:23PM | 0 recs
But they'll argue that...

Obama shouldn't have challenged the petitions, and that this is somehow the same as what Republicans do when they challenge voter registrations at the polls--which is of course nonsense. His opponents either already were, or wanted to be professional politicians, so the standards should be higher for them, it seems to me.

I wish we knew a little more about that aspect of it though. Obviously the petitions of his opponents were flawed in a serious enough way that they couldn't be fixed in time to get on the ballot. My understanding is they only need 750 signatures of registered voters, so it's difficult to see how all four managed to screw that up, but manage it they did.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-02 01:26PM | 0 recs
Re: But they'll argue that...

Her petitions were garbage and he had every right to challenge them.

Whose campaign is putting out this bullshit anyway?

by Bush Bites 2007-06-03 12:30PM | 0 recs
OK

Why wasn't he able to play hard ball with the last vote on Iraq?  

Why before the vote, weeks before the debates on the floor had been done did he say that the congress would have to give in?

That is not how someone playing hardball, plays hardball!

by dk2 2007-06-02 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: OK

He's smart enough to pick his battles. Getting into a game of chicken with a notoriously stubborn lame duck President who has nothing to lose, when our troops and the Iraqi peoples lives are riding on the outcome, is not a very smart thing to do. Playing politics when lives are on the line is not a very smart thing to do. Playing politics during an election is appropriate.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-02 01:35PM | 0 recs
Re: OK

Picking his battles - the Iraq war wasn't worth the stand to up to Bush.

I can't disagree with you more, pick his battles to me is Screaming that he likes the middle that he can not make a stand at least not one that put him out there on the line. That is called playing it safe.

You all can not have it both ways with Obama, either his is the out there kind the brass knuckles kind or he is the - "oh it wasn't the right battle kind"

He can not be both. Either he is leading or he is retreating - not both.

by dk2 2007-06-02 01:53PM | 0 recs
Re: OK

Sorry, but voting to continue funding the war is the opposite to "playing it safe." He's running for President in the Democratic party and this war is HUGELY unpopular. "Playing it safe" is what Edwards has been doing.

He understands how bad an idea suddenly cutting the funds would be, and takes a principled stand in spite of the fact it is politically unpopular.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-02 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: OK

Completely and 100% disagree with you.

by dk2 2007-06-02 02:13PM | 0 recs
Re: OK

Completely and 100% not surprised.

by ObamaEdwards2008 2007-06-02 04:57PM | 0 recs
Re: OK

You're completely and 100% wrong.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-02 05:13PM | 0 recs
Re: OK

So was Obama just "playing it safe" when he spoke out against the war from his deep-blue, anti-war district in his solid-blue state? It always amazes me how so many Obama supporters try to have it both ways on things like this.

by McSnatherson 2007-06-02 05:22PM | 0 recs
Re: OK

How is the truth "having it both ways?"

by Mystylplx 2007-06-04 08:28AM | 0 recs
He picks his battles.

So doing all he can to get out of Iraq is not worth it.  Tell it to the dead.

The time to play hardball was when he got to Washington in 2005.  He could have used his political capital to try to end the war. He CHOSE not to do so.

He plays hardball for Barack Obama.

by littafi 2007-06-02 06:39PM | 0 recs
Re: He picks his battles.

He plays hardball for the country. We had a chance to avoid this stupid war, but the country didn't listen to him, and to many others who refused to bend over and spread their cheeks for the Bush administration.

But you can't unspill milk. Grownups know that. Barack Obama is a grownup, unlike some of our other candidates.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-03 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: He picks his battles.

Or in other words, grownups know that once a war starts, Congress is morally obligated to fund it forever and ever and ever. Because otherwise they'd be "abandoning the troops", I guess. Way to reify Rush Limbaugh's talking points, there.

Fortunately, your candidate still retains more of my respect than you do, because he doesn't agree with your description of him and of the war. Apparently you forgot, but Mr. "grownup" actually voted against the bill funding the way (albeit ever so quietly - gotta be careful not to get Sean Hannity too mad at you!).

by McSnatherson 2007-06-03 12:08PM | 0 recs
Nope.

Your "in other words" recap of what I said wasn't even close.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-03 12:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Nope.

Your response to "The time to play hardball was when he got to Washington in 2005.  He could have used his political capital to try to end the war. He CHOSE not to do so." was "you can't unspill milk. Grownups know that. Barack Obama is a grownup, unlike some of our other candidates."

If you've got a way of interpreting that other than that the "grownup" thing to do is to not spend political capital trying to "unspill milk" by actually doing something about the Iraq War, I'll be more than happy to hear it.

by McSnatherson 2007-06-03 03:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Nope.

He's been doing it all along. He's been trying to get enough votes to overturn the veto. That's the only plan which has a chance of success.

Cutting off the funding is just plain dumb.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-04 08:23AM | 0 recs
You're worried about Obama's funding vote NOW?

For a war we didn't have to fight THEN?


Friday, October 11, 2002

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.

Resolution sharply divides Democrats
The Senate vote sharply divided Democrats, with 29 voting for the measure and 21 against. All Republicans except Sen. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island voted for passage.

Where was Edwards THEN? He damned sure wasn't playing "hardball"....was he?

by sybil disobedience 2007-06-02 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: OK

Real courageous of John Edwards to play all of HIS hardball after he left the Senate.

by AC4508 2007-06-03 11:30AM | 0 recs
Re: OK

I'm sorry, I know the blogosphere loves Edwards, but the guy can't even carry his own state.

He was also a very tepid campaigner in '04 who got his clock cleaned in his one debate.

by Bush Bites 2007-06-03 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: OK

I call bullshit on both counts there. Polls showed most people felt Edwards won the debate, and no vice-presidential candidate has "carried" their own state when it would otherwise have gone to the Republicans (or to the Dems on the Repug side) since LBJ. It's just not a useful metric anymore.

by McSnatherson 2007-06-03 03:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Plays Hardball to Win 96 Primary

Was someone there challenging his signatures?

by jallen 2007-06-02 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Plays Hardball to Win 96 Primary

Did anyone challenge Obama's signatures? The article didn't say but he'd been in the race since July so he wasn't rushed like last minute entrant Palmer.

More on the invalidations from the article:

Just in time for the Dec. 18, 1995, filing deadline, Palmer submitted 1,580 signatures--about twice the minimum required. That day, Obama lashed out at her, telling the Tribune she had pressured him to withdraw.

"I am disappointed that she's decided to go back on her word to me," he said.

Obama campaign aides also responded that day--but quietly, and out of the limelight.

Davis and Dobry marshaled volunteers and began poring through the nominating petitions of Palmer and the three lesser-known Democrats, according to interviews.

"We looked at those petitions and found that none of them met the requirements of the law," Dobry said. "Alice's people, they'd done it in a great hurry. Almost all her petitions were signed a day or so before the deadline."

According to Davis, Palmer "had kids gathering the names. I remember two of her circulators, Pookie and Squirt."

Davis and others urged Obama to file legal challenges.

Such tactics are legal and frequently used in Chicago. Ballot challenges eliminated 67 of the 245 declared aldermanic candidates in Chicago before this past February's elections, an election board spokesman said.

Davis recalled telling Obama: "If you can get 'em, get 'em. Why give 'em a break?

Alice Palmer had kids gathering her signatures.  I'm sure Pookie and Squirt tried but many of the signatures they obtained were invalidated.

One of the other candidates had this to say:

Leafing through scrapbooks in his South Shore apartment, Askia, a perennially unsuccessful candidate, acknowledges that he paid Democratic Party precinct workers $5 a sheet for some of the petitions, and now suspects they used a classic Chicago ruse of passing the papers among themselves to forge the signatures. "They round-tabled me," Askia said.

From what's in the article it doesn't appear that there is much question that there were major problems with the petitions of Obama's opponents.

by Curt Matlock 2007-06-02 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Plays Hardball to Win 96 Primary

It seems like there are always bad sigs on petitions here in Oregon, no matter how much time they've been collected in.

by jallen 2007-06-02 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Plays Hardball to Win 96 Primary

I think you found the famous Cousin Pookie! Is "Squirt" a nickname for Uncle Jethro?

by mboehm 2007-06-02 03:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

He's from Chicago..how do you think they do politics in Chi-town?

Tiddlywinks?

by rikyrah 2007-06-02 04:53PM | 0 recs
So you admit that

"new politics" is phony?

by littafi 2007-06-02 06:42PM | 0 recs
Re: So you admit that

New politics is new.

What we're talking about happened 11 years ago in his rookie campaign.

It boggles my mind, but maybe someone can answer this--

Why is it so easy for some people to forgive John Edwards who, 5 years ago voted to take this country into an unnecessary preemptive war apparently without even bothering to read the intelligence report which the whole case for war was built on but find it soooo shocking and unforgivable that Barack Obama played by the rules in his rookie campaign and won?

Can you riddle me that?

by Mystylplx 2007-06-03 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: So you admit that

Short answer: I can forgive one but not the other because only one of them has actually admitted what he did was wrong and sworn not to make the same mistake again.

Also, color me unsurprised that an Obama supporter is yet again trying to have things both ways. Barack Obama can either be a hardball "Chi-town" politico who can take on the Bushies on their own mephitic ground, or he can have converted to the "new kind of politics" we all hear about ad nauseum. You really need to learn what the term "mutually exclusive" means.

Oh, and "played by the rules" and "exploited a self-admittedly unjust legal technicality to turn a democratic election into a coronation" are two very different things. That's another item you might work on absorbing.

by McSnatherson 2007-06-03 12:22PM | 0 recs
Re: So you admit that

His opponents cheated. There were fake signatures on their petitions.

And there's absolutely nothing "mutually exclusive" about playing hardball and the "new kind of politics."

I think you just don't understand what "the new kind of politics" means. You seem to think it means a bunch of pansies chanting OOOOMMMMM and dancing with flowers in their hair.

Guess again.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-03 12:26PM | 0 recs
Re: So you admit that

His opponents cheated. There were fake signatures on their petitions.

The second isn't evidence for the first. At least one candidate (the much-cited Askia) didn't cheat - he got cheated by the people who were supposed to collect signatures for him. And Obama's publicly stated that there shouldn't be any petition requirements for candidacy anyway.

And there's absolutely nothing "mutually exclusive" about playing hardball and the "new kind of politics."

Right, because nothing says "the audacity of hope" like "morally corrupt Chicago politico". You're really reaching here.

You seem to think it means a bunch of pansies chanting OOOOMMMMM and dancing with flowers in their hair.

Just wanted to note that absolutely charming dash of homophobia you sprinkled in there.

by McSnatherson 2007-06-03 03:50PM | 0 recs
To quote from my comment on the other post

"he [Obama] didn't just do it to the incumbent, who's the only one who actually did him wrong. He did it to every other candidate in the race. It's one thing to screw with somebody who screws with you - it's another thing entirely to screw with people who've done you no harm just to make it easier for you to get ahead. Sure, it was technically legal - but, to make an extreme example, so were poll taxes once upon a time. And like poll taxes, if not to the same degree, this had the effect of limiting voter choice through an unjust legal technicality. Obama's said he opposes petition requirements for candidates; so why, when push came to shove, didn't Mr. "New kind of politics" put his money where his mouth is? That's my question about this whole business."

That's my question - and I'm still waiting for an answer.

by McSnatherson 2007-06-02 05:25PM | 0 recs
Re: To quote from my comment on the other post

Short answer: she screwed him first.

by Populism2008 2007-06-02 05:35PM | 0 recs
Re: To quote from my comment on the other post

You must not have read the comment, cause that's not what it was asking.

by jallen 2007-06-02 05:37PM | 0 recs
Re: To quote from my comment on the other post

Directly above this is a quote from the article making it clear that the overwhelming majority of the signatures from the other candidates were fake or invalid.  Moreover, this is standard practice in Chicago politics and elections, also from that article.

As I've said before, this doesn't make it right but it certainly makes it a lot easier to understand.  

It's not a poll tax.  It's not really anything like a poll tax.  It keeps a CANDIDATE off the ballot - it doesn't prevent a VOTER from voting.  These other candidates simply did not have 750 people willing to sign their name on a sheet of paper to get them on the ballot.  Once again, doesn't make it right, but it's very different from voter suppression.  

by Baldrick 2007-06-02 06:02PM | 0 recs
Re: To quote from my comment on the other post

You're misunderstanding the analogy I'm making to the poll tax. I'm not saying this has a single thing to do with voter suppression, because you're right, it doesn't. The connection I'm making is on a much broader level - that both petition requirements  and poll taxes are both mechanisms that are legal to employ (or used to be, in the case of poll taxes), but are unjust because they restrict the democratic rights of citizens (to vote in the case of poll taxes, and to run for office in the case of petition requirements).

So the issue isn't that Obama somehow broke the law, because he manifestly didn't. The issue is that when push came to shove, he abandoned his principles (he's stated publicly that he, too, feels petition requirements are unjust and should be done away with) in favor of what's "standard practice in [infamously corrupt] Chicago politics and elections".

Is he the only politician ever to do something like this? Of course not. But is he the only politician in this race to stake his campaign on being the candidate who represents a so-called "new kind of politics" that's all about not making this kind of cynical moral compromise? Yep. And that's what makes this so disturbing.

by McSnatherson 2007-06-02 07:27PM | 0 recs
Re: To quote from my comment on the other post

I don't disagree that it is in contrast to his stated principles.

But it's just nothing like a poll tax.  It's really not, and it's disingenuous and inflammatory to draw an analogy like that.  The reason why poll taxes are SO bad is because they're designed to target the disenfranchised and make it impossible for them to participate in basic democratic politics.

There is no inalienable right to be a candidate for office.  If you don't run, you still get to vote.  Moreover, petition laws are an incredibly low burden to get over.  If you're unable to succeed, you are unlikely to win anyways.  There is therefore a theoretically defensible purpose (it prevents vanity candidacies which potentially interfere with those actually interested and serious) with NOTHING like the disproportionate impact on the disadvantaged.

Your analogy amounts to just saying these are both things that are legal but ethically problematic.  But the same could be said for cheating at Monopoly and slavery - both legal but unethical.  

Maybe I'm getting worked up over not a lot, but the use of voter discrimination laws over the years to disenfranchise people based on race is so important that I am very wary of misusing the tremendous emotional charge associated with the issue.

by Baldrick 2007-06-02 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: To quote from my comment on the other post

Why is it like a poll tax?  Because if a voter is illiterate, for example, and unable to sign their name, their voice doesn't count.  An illegible signature is automatically thrown out.

It represents a barrier to running for office.  We should all be able to run for office without submitting papers.  In Indiana that's the case.  If we want to run, we file our papers and the voters decide.  It's not left up to petitioners, then to lawyers, then to voters.

I am not agruing that Obama did something illegal.  I just think he did something unethical.

by Vox Populi 2007-06-02 08:08PM | 0 recs
Re: To quote from my comment on the other post

It's not like a freaking poll tax.  Good lord.  I agree it was at least problematic and potentially unethical, though I'm skeptical about going so far as that.  But it's not like a poll tax.  

I have not read anything which suggests that names were excluded for being illegible.  Have you?  Even if they were, wouldn't you say that the campaign ought to be able to ask them to re-write their name so it is legible?  And even if they can't do that, one person's signature on a petition is NOTHING like a vote.  There is a lower limit of signatures needed, but extra ones beyond it are meaningless.  It's not like voting where every vote matters.  Someone is not disenfranchised by their signature not being counted as long as the candidate is able to follow the rules and get the appropriate number of ones that can be read.  That's the whole reason you get extras (from y'know, real people instead of forged identities).

As for being a barrier to running for office, even in the idyllic Indiana you've admitted you have to "file your papers" which requires a minimal capacity to read and write (or hire someone who can) as well as social skills to enable you to do that.  Yes, petition laws raise the bar, but the gap between those two is about 1/1000 as significant as the gap between petition laws and poll taxes.

by Baldrick 2007-06-02 08:20PM | 0 recs
Re: To quote from my comment on the other post

They needed nearly 800 signatures just to get on the ballot.  They were running in a special primary election, which means turnout would be horrendous.

In 1998, when other offices were on the ballot, 16792 Democratic votes were cast.  Unfortunately the Illinois State Board of Elections only has numbers going back to 1998.

But the point is, 800 voters represents over 5% of TOTAL Democratic voters in a NORMAL primary election year.  In a three or four way primary, 5,000 votes can make you the nominee.  Is it fair or realistic to expect that many signatures just to get on the ballot?

http://www.elections.il.gov/ElectionInfo rmation/VoteTotalsList.aspx?officeid=142 9

by Vox Populi 2007-06-02 08:33PM | 0 recs
Re: To quote from my comment on the other post

Your analogy amounts to just saying these are both things that are legal but ethically problematic.

Well, no - not exactly. What my analogy is intended to illustrate is that something can very easily be legal without being ethical, because a crap-ton of the Obama supporters posting appear to be under the impression that the fact that Obama's actions were technically legal makes everything perfectly hunky-dory and everybody should just shut up and go home now. Which is, um, not so much the case.

The rest of your comment appears to be devoted to arguing that petition requirements and the poll tax are not morally equivalent, which might be a worthwhile point if only I'd ever claimed they were. As it is, I deliberately made reference to the fact that they weren't morally equivalent in my original use of the analogy, so you're kind of wasting your breath (er, text) there.

by McSnatherson 2007-06-03 12:50AM | 0 recs
Why did he challenge the petitions?

Why did Obama challenge the petitions? Uh, because he wanted to win. It's really that simple. You guys have bought way too much into the "a new kind of politics" meme. Yes, it's being spread by the Obama campaign itself, but still. Nobody should think Obama is a saint, or some sort of prophet. In fact he's a politician, in the best tradition of Lincoln and FDR. Both of those guys knew politics, they knew how to win, and they weren't above using somewhat shady tactics to do it.

You know, sometimes in my darker moments I think Obama doesn't have what it takes to win the Presidency. I'll think that he's been very lucky in his opponents, that he hasn't truly faced the GOP spin machine, that he might be percieved as too soft and too goody-goody and that people will vote against that image. But then I remember things like his 1996 petition challenge--his first political race, mind you--and it makes me feel a whole lot better. Barack Obama knows politics, he knows how to win, and he isn't above using somewhat shady tactics to do it.

Now, this doesn't mean Obama is corrupt, or that he's a liar, or whatever. Indeed just the opposite: he's probably the cleanest, the most upstanding, and the least beholden to special interests guy in the whole damn presidental field, on both sides. Look no further than the fact that he was apparently conflicted by his petition challenge--he actually bad about it! I mean Jesus Christ this is not the poll tax here. Most people, myself included, would probably not bat an eye at any of it.

by Korha 2007-06-02 09:18PM | 0 recs
We need a tough candidate

not wimps that concede defeat before the recount. Won't name any names.

by Populism2008 2007-06-02 05:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

She thought that she was entitled to the seat. She wasn't, especially not with false signatures.

by Populism2008 2007-06-02 05:37PM | 0 recs
but they challenged ALL the petitions

NOT ONLY the incumbents--they kept challenging until there was no one but Obama on the ballot.

That is the salient point.

by desmoinesdem 2007-06-02 06:02PM | 0 recs
Re: but they challenged ALL the petitions

The salient point is they had fake signatures. They cheated. He called them on it. He won.

Chi-town politics is as tough as it gets, and if he can make it there he can make it anywhere.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-03 09:02AM | 0 recs
Like some here

think he is entitled to the Presdiency?

by littafi 2007-06-02 06:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

Anyone who runs thinks he or she is entitled to the seat. I have to say I find it a bit troubling that in answer to the question if the voters were well served by having only one candidate in the election he smiled and said that they were.

by bowiegeek 2007-06-02 09:36PM | 0 recs
This also from the article...

His choice divided veteran Chicago political activists.

"There was friction about the decision he made," said City Colleges of Chicago professor emeritus Timuel Black, who tried to negotiate with Obama on Palmer's behalf. "There were deep disagreements."

Had Palmer survived the petition challenge, Obama would have faced the daunting task of taking on an incumbent senator. Palmer's elimination marked the first of several fortuitous political moments in Obama's electoral success: He won the 2004 primary and general elections for U.S. Senate after tough challengers imploded when their messy divorce files were unsealed.

Obama contended that in the case of the 1996 race, in which he routed token opposition in the general election, he was ready to compete in the primary if necessary.

"We actually ran a terrific campaign up until the point we knew that we weren't going to have to appear on the ballot with anybody," Obama said. "I mean, we had prepared for it. We had raised money. We had tons of volunteers. There was enormous enthusiasm."

And he defended his use of ballot maneuvers: "If you can win, you should win and get to work doing the people's business."

At the time, though, Obama seemed less at ease with the decision, according to aides. They said the first-time candidate initially expressed reservations about using challenges to eliminate all his fellow Democrats.

"He wondered if we should knock everybody off the ballot. How would that look?" said Ronald Davis, the paid Obama campaign consultant whom Obama referred to as his "guru of petitions."

In the end, Davis filed objections to all four of Obama's Democratic rivals at the candidate's behest.

While Obama didn't attend the hearings, "he wanted us to call him every night and let him know what we were doing," Davis said, noting that Palmer and the others seemed unprepared for the challenges.

But Obama didn't gloat over the victories. "I don't think he thought it was, you know, sporting," said Will Burns, a 1996 Obama campaign volunteer who assisted with the petition challenges. "He wasn't very proud of it."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/polit ics/chi-0704030881apr04,0,6270820,print. story

He was ready to compete, but this makes it seem like he was afraid of the competition.  Has he ever won a tough election?

by citizen53 2007-06-02 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

Not yet.

by Vox Populi 2007-06-02 06:00PM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

That's because he makes it look easy.

Meanwhile, John Edwards has only won one election... ever. He's 1 for 3. Barack Obama is 3 for 4.

And don't say it's not about Edwards. This diary was in response to your Obama hit piece, and the fact that all the Obama hit pieces come from Edwards supporters means you can't hide behind an "it's not about Edwards" excuse.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-03 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

Never mind that Edwards defeated a popular, incumbent Republican senator in a red state.  And I like how anything critical of your golden boy is a "hit piece."

by Vox Populi 2007-06-03 10:45AM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

Anything petty and critical of Obama (or anyone else for that matter) is a "hit piece." It's interesting that yesterday there was a diary critical of Obama that was not a "hit piece." It just didn't get REC'd.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-03 11:01AM | 0 recs
"popular"?
Another lie.  Faircloth always had sub-50% favorables.  Via Charlie Cook, June 1998:
The single most endangered GOP incumbent may be Faircloth, who turned 70 earlier this year.
by Adam B 2007-06-03 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

He clobbered Dan Hynes who was and is the State Controller in the 2004 Democratic Primary for the U.S Senate Seat.  Hynes had won the State Controller office with over 60% of the vote and was considered the frontrunner for the U.S Senate.

Yet, Obama beat him by more than 2-1.

by Adam T 2007-06-02 07:03PM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

Oh my god, Hynes was NEVER considered the frontrunner!

He raised $6 Million for the primary, but he was never polling highly.  After Blair Hull's collapse (Hull was the front-runner, having spent nearly $30 Million), Obama won.

by Vox Populi 2007-06-02 07:19PM | 0 recs
That sounds

like a pretty tough race to me

by Max Fletcher 2007-06-02 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: That sounds

Being the only major black candidate in the race, Obama had the support of Chicago's African American leadership.  Nobody expected him to be the nominee.  Blair Hull was the generic Dem with deep pockets and was far ahead in the polls until relevations that he used cocaine and beat his wife.

Hull all but dropped out of the race and Obama, who was a distant second in polls, came in first with 52% of the vote.

In early polls leading up to the March 16, 2004, primary election, candidate Blair Hull enjoyed a substantial lead and widespread name recognition resulting from a well-financed advertisement effort. He contributed over $28 million of his personal wealth to the campaign. However, Hull was soon embroiled by allegations of domestic abuse. Challenger Barack Obama, an Illinois state senator, won endorsements from four Illinois congressmen and former DNC chairman David Wilhelm, gradually increasing his name recognition among voters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Un ited_States_Senate_election,_2004

Obama was in the right place at the right time.

by Vox Populi 2007-06-02 08:03PM | 0 recs
Re: That sounds

He was lucky, and it was a tough election. Do you dispute that?

by Korha 2007-06-02 09:31PM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

Well, that was maybe more the national media and national expectations than the view of the people in Illinois.  

What I said earlier still stands though: Hynes was the only statewide elected candidate in the race, and he had won election as State Controller with over 60% of the vote.  

It's impressive that after Blair Hull imploded that most voter support went to Obama rather than Hynes and Obama won in a multi candidate field with over 50% of the vote.

by Adam T 2007-06-02 09:35PM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

Obama is a Chicago Democrat, Hynes is not from Chicago.  Something like 70% of primary voters are in Chicago.  It's not a surprise that most of the support went to him.

by Vox Populi 2007-06-03 01:52AM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

Maria Pappas was also from Cook County if not Chicago, and she got good press for her debate performances.  

I'm sure there are good cases to be made that Obama winning the primary was not a surprise after Blair Hull imploded, but I don't see how anybody can say that Obama getting over 50% of the vote in a credible multiple candidate field is not an impressive performance.  (not that you said or implied that).

by Adam T 2007-06-03 03:24AM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

Dan Hynes was born in Chicago, grew up in Chicago, went to law school in Chicago, worked in Chicago thereafter, his dad was a former Cook County assesor and Chicago ward leader, etc.  You're just completely, thoroughly wrong.

by Adam B 2007-06-03 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

Thanks for the correction.  I thought Dan Hynes was a product of Chicago - not that there is anything wrong with that.  

Why would we want facts to get in the way when the idea is to do a hatchet job built on a strawman?

by John Mills 2007-06-03 07:21PM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

Ok, I had no problem taking your word as accurate, as you could see in the previous post, but I did a quick search to find out the spelling of Maria Pappas' name, and your recollections are wrong.

Prior to Blair Hull waging his full scale ad campaign, Hynes was the frontrunner:

The telephone survey of 806 likely Democratic primary voters was conducted in late July. It showed that 41 percent of Democratic voters are undecided.

Among voters having a preference, state Comptroller Dan Hynes led with 21 percent, Obama and Cook County Treasurer Maria Pappas tied at 14 percent, commodities millionaire Blair Hull with 6 percent, former Board of Education President Gery Chico with 3 percent, and health care executive Joyce Washington with 1 percent.

In the 12-county Chicago media market, which usually casts about three-fourths of the Democratic primary vote, Obama is favored by 20 percent, followed by Pappas with 19 percent and Hynes with 17 percent.

http://www.ilsenate.com/cache.asp?LinkID =87

Late July of 2003 is not as early as it sounds given that the primary was in February of 2004.

by Adam T 2007-06-03 03:37AM | 0 recs
Re: This also from the article...

see p4 of this PDF for a tracking graph

by Adam B 2007-06-03 10:04AM | 0 recs
One primary...

Against what apparently was a weak candidate.

That's impressive.

by citizen53 2007-06-02 07:59PM | 0 recs
Re: One primary...

Hull and Hynes weren't weak by any means.

by Adam B 2007-06-03 10:05AM | 0 recs
What?

Your political analysis is absolutely terrible. Obama knew Palmer would be a tough opponent, so he knocked her out with a petition challenge before she even got started. That's called winning, and winning smart. You can spin it however you want (hohoho Obama is "afraid" of the competition), but at the end of the day that's what happened.

As to the 2004 Democratic primary for Senate, it was absolutely a tough race for Obama. This is really just a fact and I'm suprised that you are disputing it--well, almost surprised. Compared to the other candidates Obama was under-funded, under-prepared, under-connected, and under-endorsed. Yet somehow he still won, and won by huge margins. Sure, he was lucky too... but if it wasn't a tough race he wouldn't need to be lucky, would he?

by Korha 2007-06-02 09:30PM | 0 recs
See above

The favorite beat up his wife and snorted cocaine.  Keyes was especially tough.

Who knows if he would have beaten Palmer.  The fact is that he ran unopposed and thus, it seems he has never won a tough election.

by citizen53 2007-06-02 09:54PM | 0 recs
Re: See above

You're dense. Blair Hull was detonated by a divorce scandal in the last weeks of the election, true. That doesn't erase the year of hard campaigning before that, nor does it change the fact that it still was a tough race. You seem to think being lucky and winning a tough race are incompatible things. On the contrary, they're highly correlated.

In 1996 Obama might not have beaten Palmer if he hadn't challenged her petitions, also true. Which makes it all the smarter for him to knock her out before the race got started. Basically Obama headed off a tough election from ever happening by using some canny manipulation. Look, here's the worst analogy ever: it's like killing the baby dinosaur before it has the chance to grow into a mature T-rex and eat you. You get the point I hope.

by Korha 2007-06-02 10:07PM | 0 recs
You say I am dense...

but then you say that what I said is true.  Go figure.

Obama eliminating his challengers is one thing.  Of course, I don't like it.  The point is that it precuded an election.  It has nothing to do with the fact that he lost the only tough election contests he was ever in.  The others elections involved candidates that were weak or destroyed themselves, virtually assuring his victory when the votes were counted.

Get it now?

by citizen53 2007-06-03 08:57AM | 0 recs
Re: You say I am dense...

Again, what? A tough race means a race is that hard to win. It was hard for Obama to win the 2004 Democratic senate primary. Therefore, the 2004 democratic senate primary was a tough race for Obama. Obama won the race. Therefore, Obama has won a tough race. Which part of this chain of logic do you not grasp?

by Korha 2007-06-03 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: You say I am dense...

Check this out.  His main competitor self-destructed:

</blocquote>Three weeks before the March 16 primary, the days that were filled with questions along the lines of "What did Blair Hull do to his ex-wife during their divorce that was so awful that he's trying to hide it?" were days that Hull could have been making his case instead of making excuses.</blocquote>

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/colum nists/ericzorn/chi-0402280155feb28,1,690 5431.column?coll=chi-news-col

Conversely, Edwards defeated Lauch Faircloth, a TWO TIME incumbent senator and a product of the Jesse Helms machine.

Now, if Obama had defeated Palmer, I might agree.  But he ascended to a safe seat in the Illinois Senate, then both his major opponents for US Senate imploded, and he beat Alan Keyes.  

Do you not grasp this chain of logic?

by citizen53 2007-06-03 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: You say I am dense...

Obama and Hynes were tied in the polls before Hull's collapse.   And Lauch Faircloth was a ONE TIME incumbent senator, having defeated Terry Sanford in 1992, whose favorables were below 50% the whole time.

Don't let the facts get in your way.

by Adam B 2007-06-03 01:09PM | 0 recs
You are right...

I originally thought it was just one term.  In any event, defeating Faircloth was day and night to defeating Keyes, or not even running against Palmer.

As for the mistake, it was from several articles like this:

THE 1998 ELECTIONS: STATE BY STATE -- SOUTH; NORTH CAROLINA

By MATTHEW L. WALD.
Published: November 5, 1998

Lauch Faircloth, a two-term Republican incumbent, lost his Senate seat to a political newcomer, John Edwards, after portraying Mr. Edwards as a ''Clinton liberal.''

Mr. Edwards, a telegenic lawyer specializing in personal injury cases, spent more than $5 million of his own money and argued that he would not be beholden to special interests. He did not focus on Mr. Faircloth, but called for more Government regulation of health maintenance organizations.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.ht ml?res=9F03E3DD163EF936A35752C1A96E95826 0&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics %2fPeople%2fF%2fFaircloth%2c%20Lauch

Mistakes happen.  Maybe even for you, Adam.  So I really appreciate that last remark.

by citizen53 2007-06-03 01:20PM | 0 recs
Re: You are right...

He defeated Keyes easily because he was such an impressive candidate that no one else dared run against Obama.  

Don't underestimate that primary; it was not preordained that Obama be the one to benefit when Hull fell.  Hynes was the establishment candidate, after all.  And Obama didn't have his own wealth to draw from during the race.

by Adam B 2007-06-03 01:24PM | 0 recs
Re: You say I am dense...

Edwards? What does Edwards have to do with this?

Your position doesn't have a coherent chain of logic, which is why you're wrong. The all-important distinction you've failed to draw is between the "last weeks of the primary race" and the the "entirety of the primary race." It was not tough for Obama to win in the last few weeks, because Blair Hull had imploded. However, this is very different from then saying that the entire primary was easy for him. The reality is that Obama was in a position to take advantage of the Hull's divorce scandal--he was in second place, he was on a huge wave of momentum going into the last weeks, he had money and organization, and was in fact gaining on Hull. None of that would have been true if Obama hadn't bested all his other competitors already, if he hadn't run an amazing race in a very tough and competitive primary.  

Look I will lay it out for you very explicitly:

1. A tough race is a race that is hard to win, and an easy race is a race that is easy to win.

2. Barack Obama enters the primary with no money, no staff, no fame, and no endorsements. He is running against the Chicago machine candidate and a self-financed multimillionare, as well as a couple of other people who are more well-known statewide than he is.

3. All political observers agree that the primary was going to be very difficult for Obama to win. The smart money is all on other candidates. Obama is polling in single-digits.

4. Obama burns a lot of shoe leather for a year and a half and miraculously moves into second place in the primary, behind Blair Hull who outspends him 3-1 and ahead of Dan Hynes, the Chicago machine candidate. He is not behind Hull by more than a few percentage points.

5. This achievement is unexpected by all political observers, and quite startling. Obama is now on a gigantic wave of momentum going into the last weeks of the election, thanks to some well-timed TV ads and a string of positive media coverage. He is gaining on Blair Hull.

6. In the last weeks of the primary Blair Hull implodes thanks to a fortitously timed divorce scandal, which may or may not have been leaked by Obama advisor David Axelrod.

7. Conclusion 1: Therefore, it was easy for Obama to win the primary in the last weeks of the election, because Blair Hull had imploded in the last weeks of the election.  

8. Conclusion 2: Therefore, it was tough for Obama to win the entirety of the primary, because he started with no money or staff or endorsements or money, faced a very competitive and crowded field, and for most of the primary was behind in the polls.

by Korha 2007-06-03 01:33PM | 0 recs
Whatever...

Your logic is spin, so far as I am concerned.

As to Edwards, I was just drawing the comparison of what a tough election is.  Like the one Obama lost to Rush.

Do you think Obama would have beaten Palmer in an election?

by citizen53 2007-06-03 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Whatever...

The difference between you and me is that I'm intellectually honest and you're not. Sorry, is that a personal attack? I guess it is. It's amazing what lengths you will go to to say that Obama has never been in a tough race, even though the 2004 Democratic senate primary is the very picture of such a race. I'm not the one spinning it was tough--this is universally agreed on--you're the one spinning it wasn't tough.  

Anyways I'm done here. Everything that's going to be said has been said, and more.

by Korha 2007-06-03 05:29PM | 0 recs
Of course...YOU are the honest one...

what a novel concept to believe he/she is the purveyor of honesty.  Forgive me while I gag!

Yet above you admitted that what I said was true.

by citizen53 2007-06-03 06:51PM | 0 recs
Why compete

when you knock your mentor off the ballot on technicalities?

new politics indeed

by okamichan13 2007-06-03 06:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

Yes, it is how they do it in Chicago.  Read the Chicago Tribune article.  It's standard practice.  So you haven't heard of it, but it happens all the time.

They had every right (and chance) to run for office and they had a small hurdle to jump to do it. They failed to get 750 actual, real, people who lived there to sign a piece of paper for them.  Instead, they got a bunch of forged names.

Look, the community got to express their desire.  If they wanted someone to run, they could sign petitions for them.  A sufficient number did for Obama, and not for any other candidate.  What is so democratic about letting people on the ballot simply because they want to, regardless of whether it matches any demonstration of desire on the part of the electorate?

As I've said, I don't like what Obama did, but it's not the end of the freaking world.

by Baldrick 2007-06-02 06:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

From the Chicago Tribune Article, 67 of 245 Aldermanic candidates in the city had their signature lists invalidated this past February during the primaries. Not a lot of Republicans run for office out here, so I would be willing to bet that most of those were Dems invalidating other Dems.

She had over 1,000 fake signatures on her ballot, but Obama is the one who's using dirty tricks. How you people can spin this thing that way in your minds is beyond me. I like Edwards a lot, but you guys can make it kinda hard...

by Max Fletcher 2007-06-02 07:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

It's not about Edwards.

by Vox Populi 2007-06-02 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

Obama is a jerk- get used to it.

by sterkt 2007-06-02 09:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

This diary is an interesting exercise in twisting the meaning of an article to fit your point of view.

You quote:

Then Palmer's congressional bid collapsed. On Nov. 28, 1995, she placed a distant third behind political powerhouses Jesse Jackson Jr., who holds that congressional seat today, and current state Senate President Emil Jones Jr.

Palmer didn't fade quietly away. Citing an "outpouring" of support, she upended the political landscape by switching gears and deciding to run in the March 1996 primary for her state Senate seat.

You wrote (emphasis mine):

After finishing a distant third in the congressional race Palmer tried to ensure she had no opponent in the state seat for which Obama was already running. Obama then refused to go along with her attempt to grease her wheels to victory by staying in the race. Given the fact she'd tried to force him out of the race I think his decision to play hardball at that point reflects well on him.

Those assertions are not supported by your quote. There were 4 candidates running. Obama knocked all three competitors out of the race by challenging their petitions. He didn't just take out Palmer, he took out Askia and Ewell as well. Were they also trying grease their wheels to victory?

Let's face it. Palmer wanted to stay in office. Obama could have ran against her like most politicians do regardless of past friendships. He  instead cleared the field. Anyone can tell that's hardball; but it's not really an inspiring example of bringing 'a new politics' to America.

by bowiegeek 2007-06-02 09:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

You're right that the sentence in question was too strong. I'll edit the diary to state "... Palmer tried to ensure she had no strong opponent in the state seat for which Obama was already running." As her self-anointed successor Obama was her strongest competitor in the primary.

by Curt Matlock 2007-06-03 07:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

But you can't even accurately say that because, as a result of Obama's actions, we'll never know who was a strong candidate.

by bowiegeek 2007-06-03 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

This may not seem sporting, but running for office isn't a sport and I would be worried about any presidential candidate who treated it as such.

by sterra 2007-06-03 05:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

Nice piece.  And to the "good government" types, I say GROW UP!  This is politics, it is a rough business, especially in Chicago.  

Any strong candidate with a brain can and should use existing rules to their advantage.  Why was it Obama's job to ensure Palmer's name appeared on the ballot when she, as a freaking incumbent, couldn't get 750 valid signatures?  I have collected many signatures in my day and I can tell you that getting 750 valid signatures is not hard, especially if you are an incumbent.

Frankly, this episode makes me respect Obama because I now know he is a tough SOB who is willing to use legal means to advance his cause.  I'd feel the same way if Edwards, Hillary or any other candidate did the same.  Do you think the Repubs would think twice about using this tactic if it would help them?  Isn't it about time the Dems showed some guts and the ability to play hardball?  I am sure all the people screaming about Obama's use of the rules to his advantage were all mad that Kerry didn't challenge the election in Ohio.

You can't do anything if you don't win the election.  I respect any candidate who is willing to use LEGAL means to win an election which is exactly what Obama did.  

by John Mills 2007-06-03 06:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

You can't do anything if you don't win the election.  I respect any candidate who is willing to use LEGAL means to win an election which is exactly what Obama did.  

Absolutely. The winner of the Democratic primary in 2008 will be facing a Republican Party that has completely subverted the Department of Justice with partisans intent on using all their power to influence elections. That power includes specially selected U.S. Attorneys throughout the country who are intent on helping Republicans win. The Democratic candidate will be competing in that arena and needs to be savvy and aggressive in making sure the playing field doesn't tilt so far that they lose an otherwise winnable election.

Back in 1996 Obama made sure the election rules were followed and knocked out a couple of incompetent candidates and one last minute mind-changer who'd just been trounced in another election. The bar for those candidates was very low yet they still couldn't get over it. Obama played by the rules and deprived no one of their vote so in my opinion it was a job well done.

by Curt Matlock 2007-06-03 07:31AM | 0 recs
Hal McRae wants an apology

since at the time, knocking Willie Randolph into centerfield on a slide at second was within the rules.

But yeah, that was hardball, and this is hardball.

If Obama wasn't campaigning as the "new politics uniter", things like this would be less newsworthy.

But, Obama should know that the media will jump on you if you do things which are counter to your public image.

And it's not thrilling to modify your slogan to "Obama: as clean as any Chicago politician"

Ha.

This isn't a huge problem, but then again, I wonder which Chicago-born politician who is a Senator nudged this story into the papers. ;)

by RBH 2007-06-03 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Hal McRae wants an apology

Was he running as the "new politics uniter" 11 years ago?

Edwards, for example, is trying to run as the anti-war candidate now, but he voted for the war only 5 years ago. Now he just comes up with one 'feel-good' plan after another.

But I agree this is a non-issue. I think this is mostly about a group of Edwards supporters who will go into hysteria if Obama is caught crossing the street against the light. God forbid he ever does something actually wrong--I don't think they'd know what to do with themselves.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-03 09:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's politics

There is the spirit of the law and the technical aspects of the law and breaking the law.

God forbid he ever does something actually wrong--I don't think they'd know what to do with themselves.

When any politician does something that is against the good of the people we should all stand up to that person.  That is why I wanted congress to stand up to Bush.  

However right now we have had Obama funding the war.  Many applied pressure and he voted against it, but it seemed reluctantly.  Now I don't know what his position is.  I thought he would be part of the get out of Iraq voices.  No such luck.

Then there is his environmental credentials, co-sponsoring a bill to fund corporate welfare for an industry that contributes immensely to pollution and creates few jobs.  Pandering to corporate interests not people interests.

In his first entry into politics, he didn't do it as the people's champion.  He muscled his way in through technicalities.  Pure ambition.

All these are legal but they are wrong in spirit.  When I see Obama or Edwards or any politician do something wrong, I will speak up.

Obama set the scene for high expectations.  Yet he is not living up to them when you look past the rhetoric.  And I am sorry to see it.  He may win the nomination, but I am soooo tired of politics as usual.  I like Edwards positions but I had hoped that if Edwards doesn't win I could support Obama enthusiastically.  The more I learn about him the less enthusiastic I get.  And that is depressing me to no end.

by pioneer111 2007-06-03 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's politics

However right now we have had Obama funding the war.  Many applied pressure and he voted against it, but it seemed reluctantly.  Now I don't know what his position is.  I thought he would be part of the get out of Iraq voices.  No such luck.

We've talked about this before, and I doubt either of us is going to change the others mind. I, like Barack Obama, opposed the war from the start. But I, like Barack Obama, think cutting the funds would be a mistake of nearly equal proportions as going to war in the first place was. I don't know why he voted against the most recent funding bill, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, at least until he talks more about why he voted that way. I do know he was trying to get 16 Republican votes to override the veto, so maybe that's why.

Then there is his environmental credentials, co-sponsoring a bill to fund corporate welfare for an industry that contributes immensely to pollution and creates few jobs.  Pandering to corporate interests not people interests.

Funny that he has a MUCH better rating from the league of Conservation Voters than either Edwards or Hillary Clinton then, isn't it?

And his Liquid Coal bill specifically is, as all bills, written in a lot of thick legalize which I always find difficult to decipher. But it sure does look like to me that it specifically defines the process it is endorsing as including sequestration.

SEC. 2. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:
(1) COAL-TO-LIQUID- The term `coal-to-liquid' means--
(A) with respect to a process or technology, the use of a feedstock, the majority of which is the coal resources of the United States, using the class of reactions known as Fischer-Tropsch, to produce synthetic fuel suitable for transportation; and

(B) with respect to a facility, the portion of a facility related to producing the inputs to the Fischer-Tropsch process, the Fischer-Tropsch process, finished fuel production, or the capture, transportation, or sequestration of byproducts of the use of a feedstock that is primarily domestic coal at the Fischer-Tropsch facility, including carbon emissions.

So for the purposes of the bill "Liquid to Coal" includes sequestration. Right?

One thing to remember is most of our electricity already comes from burning coal, but not the liquid kind--and with sequestration technology liquid coal is preferable.

But his bill goes beyond just that. It establishes a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard that requires all transportation fuels sold in the U.S. to contain 5 percent less carbon by 2015 and 10 percent less carbon by 2020.

And as for his "first entry into politics," his competitors cheated and he called them on it. There was nothing wrong with what he did--"in spirit" or otherwise.

by Mystylplx 2007-06-03 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Hal McRae wants an apology

Was he running as the "new politics uniter" 11 years ago?

Should we feel better if he was or wasn't?

I think this is mostly about a group of Edwards supporters who will go into hysteria if Obama is caught crossing the street against the light.

We're not the ones who are focusing on taking out Obama the most. You're overlooking the media-proclaimed frontrunner in your "analysis"

by RBH 2007-06-03 03:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

A shout-out to the South Side of Chicago--isn't there anybody who worked on this campaign who's going to comment (besides me)?  Bush Bites, were you with us?

I'm not going to make any slams at Edwards, because Edwards is a good candidate and would have been an excellent V.P.  I admire him greatly, but I support Obama.

But folks--come on.  Alice Palmer was the incumbent state senator.  The bar for her to have come back on the ballot was not high--about 800 valid signatures, as many have noted.  This should have been a slam dunk for her, but it wasn't.

By saying that Obama shouldn't have challenged anyone's signatures, some of you are saying that it's okay that a candidate's first official act be one of fraud.  I have worked on petition challenges, and it's offensive to me as a citizen to see a sheet with all the names in the same handwriting, or every 5th signature be in the same hand, or a petition passer who fraudulently claims that they live in the district, but do not.  

I'll bet that in Oregon (to cite one example noted above), you have a deadline for filing for office, and if you come in 10 minutes after that deadline, you can't get on the ballot.  How is that somehow more fair than saying that you should gain the trust of the people in your district or ward to put yourself on the ballot?

Many other arguments made here are wrong as well.  Someone raised the issue of illegibility.  Interestingly, this doesn't invalidate someone's signature on petitions in Illinois.  If your signature is illegible whenever you sign it, and what is on the petition matches what's on your voter card, it's valid.  

Also, Vox Populi states that Palmer and Obama were running in a special election.  No, they weren't.  Palmer ran for CONGRESS in a 1995 special election.  She and Obama were contending for the state Senate seat in the regular March 1996 primary.  Therefore, the 800 signature threshold represented a tiny fraction of the number of votes that were cast in that district that year.

One final thought--for all of us who worked on Barack's first campaign, Alice Palmer was our state Senator.  We supported her for state Senator when Dick Newhouse retired; we supported her for Congress when she ran in '95.  I was at the first planning meeting for Alice's run for Congress, and I was really depressed when I left.  It was clear that there wasn't any strategy for winning.  I would have loved to have her win, but she did give her word to Barack, and that has to count for something.

by rayspace 2007-06-03 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Played Hardball to Win 96 Primary

Very well said.  There are a lot of strawman arguments going on here by people who don't live in states where signatures are a requirement to get on the ballot and therefore really don't understand the rules or the type of fraud that sometimes occurs in the process.

I live in NY and we also have a signature requirement, which is not very hard for candidates to meet.  Also, it is not especially easy to knock signatures out - you really have to show fraud or that the signature is not valid b/c the person is either not registered or registered as a Dem.  Illegibility is not generally a reason here for knocking it out as long as the signature matches the one on file at the Bd of Elections.  

In the end ballot access rules exist in every state and if you want to appear on the ballot you have to abide by them.

by John Mills 2007-06-03 07:09PM | 0 recs

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