Obama thinks Dean is dividing by religion.

I was so shocked to read this.  I have respected him, but we wondered at some of his votes recently.  This seems overboard.

From a NewsMax article today I found this statement:

"Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) criticized Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean Wednesday night for using "religion to divide."

Obama told reporters gathered at the Rock the Vote awards dinner at the National Building Museum in Washington, D.C., that Dean needs to tone down his rhetoric. Dean said on Monday that the Republican Party was "pretty much a white, Christian party."

"As somebody who is a Christian myself, I don't like it when people use religion to divide, whether that is Republican or Democrat," Obama said. "I think in terms of his role as party spokesman, [Dean] probably needs to be a little more careful and I suspect that is a message he is going to be getting from a number of us," Obama explained.

"We are at a time in our country's history that inclusive language is better than exclusive language," he added. Former Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe, also attending the Rock the Vote event, empathized with Dean."

I don't know the policy here on linking to NewsMax, so I won't.  It is easy to find on a search.  I was stunned to hear that Barack Obama is clueless as to who is really dividing the country.  

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Comments

34 Comments

Thanks for this
I've linked to it in my diary
http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/6/9/9541/52979
by Renee in Ohio 2005-06-09 07:07AM | 0 recs
Thanks, Renee.
I hope he gets a lot of calls.  Time to stand up and be counted.  
by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 07:10AM | 0 recs
Nothing to be shocked about
Dean was just plain wrong in his recent gaffes, and it is difficult to defend what he said, I am not sure why he went down that road I hope he learns from his mistakes.
by THE MODERATE 2005-06-09 07:13AM | 0 recs
Dean was exactly right.
If Barack Obama thinks Howard Dean is the one dividing by religion, then he has a serious perception problem.

If you choose to think Howard Dean is the problem, then you as well have a serious perception problem.  

by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 07:17AM | 0 recs
Both are right
Dean is basically right and Obama is VERY right. Using religion as an attack is a bad move.
by ignatzmouse 2005-06-09 07:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Both are right?
Dean is basically right and Obama is VERY right. Using religion as an attack is a bad move.

Really?  So where was the junior senator from Illinois on Justice Sunday?  Or when Bush was having his photo op with Snowflake babies?

He was awfully quiet.

by KimPossible 2005-06-09 09:05AM | 0 recs
THey are both right
THe idea that the PARTY chairman is being too zealous in his partisanship is laughable.  THat's his damn job.  That's why I always wanted him as DNC chairman (and, incidentially not as presidential nominee).  The party chairman doesn't serve the American people, he serves the party.

It's good to have Dean around as a foil, so elected officials in our party can distance themselves from his fighting, often exaggerated or metaphorical rhetoric.

I love how the partisan press like Newsmax tries to make hay out of these "intraparty" disagreements.  This is not like Lieberman vs. Feingold or Miller vs. Kennedy, so it won't hurt us with John Q. Public.

by freedc 2005-06-09 08:29AM | 0 recs
All the print and TV media are making hay.
It is a spin machine.  Democrats must stand up against that machine.  They need to stop backing off when a statement is true.

This is about more than "foils" and such.  It is about serious truths that need to be said.

The right wing has their spin machine, we have too many apologists.

by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 08:39AM | 0 recs
"Serious truths" -- please!
No, as true as it seems to many of us, it's not a fact that Republicans are the party of White Christians.  (Statistically, probably the Democrats are also).

Again, it seems true, but not so, that Republicans don't work for a living.

Don't troll rate me because I didn't include the precious "context", but the reality is, if you're a public person, you learn how to talk more carefully.  

Sure, you can take it too far, like Kerry has always done, living in fear of the gaffe, but we have tons of elected officials who have learned the necessary art of speaking carefully to reporters.  Dean has no need for that art, which is why he's a party official and not an elected official.

by freedc 2005-06-09 08:45AM | 0 recs
Yes, it's a fact.
According to CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll data, 82 percent of self-described Republicans are white Christians.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/politics/11846985.htm

by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 09:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes, it's a fact.
Ok, you got me.

According to that same source, 57% of Democrats are white Christians, so it's a matter of interpretation. Republicans are the party where white Christians are overrepresented.  To me, both parties are the party of white Christians.

by freedc 2005-06-09 02:03PM | 0 recs
oh really?
with all due respect, the fucking GOP thinks they are the party of white talibangelists.

my dear friend paul kindly allowed me to use his cameraphone and snap a few pictures of a big ass SUV that we saw on lunch today.  i saw the bumper stickers and i had to take the picture because it's relevant to dean's supposed "gaffe".  i took this in valley ranch texas today (north of dallas):


the stickers were all pro-bush and anti-abortion.  


but this one took the cake.

by annatopia 2005-06-09 11:04AM | 0 recs
I apologize to you for the rating.
I accidentally gave a troll, but I intended it to be Lame.

Things are too deadly serious now for people to defend statements like Obama made.  It was not a very intelligent statement, and our country is at stake.

by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 07:20AM | 0 recs
Intelligent
To say the guy can't distance himself from Dean's rhetoric isn't just bad on principle, it's bad politics.  As a party we need Obama more than we need Dean.  Sorry, but it's true.

But relax, we don't have to choose.  Unlike the GOP (and the Bush White House), we can tolerate differences in our party and brush each other back publicly about how we word a potentially inflamatory statement.  If we want to disagree behind closed doors, then the elected official wins every time.  I suspect these quotes are all orchestrated and Dean and Obama are all playing from the same book.

by freedc 2005-06-09 08:56AM | 0 recs
We need Obama more than Dean, you say?
I am afraid I must really disagree with you there.  If Illinois folks think Dean is dividing the country by religion, if they truly believe that....then let them stand by Obama's statements.

I don't believe Dean is the one using religion to divide.  I don't think you can believe that either.  I don't even need to state all the instances of how the GOP is in bed with the Dobson types.

I think Obama said something that was politically expedient, and he was wrong.

by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 09:18AM | 0 recs
Obama is right
Dean needs to tone it down.  He may be speaking the truth, but this is not the way to win over voters.
by jkfp2004 2005-06-09 07:20AM | 0 recs
Maybe you're right
But why doesn't that rule ever apply to Republicans?  Maybe they and Dean know something the rest of us don't - and that's polite discourse won't get us anywhere.
by Drummond 2005-06-09 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Maybe you're right
Because our minority friends are often very christian while many democrats are not christian or if they are, are not politically christian.

When forced to choose large portions of our base will choose christian over democrat.

thus poliitics 101 dictates that you don't push the other guys wedge.

Dean doing so was VERY dumb.

by donkeykong 2005-06-10 04:46PM | 0 recs
The way to win over voters
is to give a juicy soundbite that has a valid message behind it. Then when the media gets you on tv to embarass you about it, you go on the attack and keep hammering out the message. This is exactly what Dean does, and it would work great if other Dems would just stop being tools for the Republicans and quit trying to sabotage him. They're not being team players. They're just trying to protect their little fucking niche as conduits to the big money fom the fat cats that have been controlling the party. Dean's diffusing party power out to the people. He threatens the party elite and they're trying to take him out. This bullshit about him needing to tone down is exactly that - bullshit. Wake up. Follow the money.
by miasmo 2005-06-10 12:15AM | 0 recs
Is this surprising?
Dean's comments taken at face value makes Christians in general and White Christians in particular , raise an eyebrow at least.
A LOT of minorites especially Black and Latinos  consider their Christianity important to them, which is why nationwide, Bush picked up 11% of the Black vote (up 9% from 2000) and in Ohio he got 16%!
   Folx on this board can ignore what I've been saying about Blacks and Religion, but it's real and Obama proves this. And he's not alone in how he feels I can assure you.
Like I said in my other diary, by railing against Republicans in general, ( the laundry list is growing , as of right now, some of them  are lazy, white and Christian) he is alienating other folx  as well.

It's no secret the the Christianity that BushFristCo preaches is false and opportunistic. But the secret to beating them is not to call them on that, because it's too easy to be accused of being anti-Christian. Besides, debating religion is a losing fight anyway because of the emotional  nature of the subject.
That's how we lost 2004 and if Dean keeps this up , that's how we will lose 20008.
Bush is weka on the issues. Dean needs to talk about
Healthcare
Downing Street Memo
Education
SOcial Security
Etc.....

by Bruticus 2005-06-09 07:27AM | 0 recs
Not surprising anymore.
Our party leaders are pretty much afraid to stand up and say what needs to be said.  They are afraid of truth tellers.  That has got to stop.  
by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 07:38AM | 0 recs
ok
first of all, how you can site newsmax as reliable is beyond me.  their article is totally slanted.  when i read obama's full quote, he doesn't seem to be blasting or criticising much at all.
"As somebody who is a Christian myself, I don't like it when people use religion to divide, whether that is Republican or Democrat," Obama said. "I think in terms of his role as party spokesman, [Dean] probably needs to be a little more careful and I suspect that is a message he is going to be getting from a number of us," Obama explained.

um how is that slamming dean?

by annatopia 2005-06-09 07:47AM | 0 recs
I am well aware of right wing sources.
I am also aware that some truths come from there.  I did not link from there, but here is more on the issue from Moon's Washington Times. Whether you like these sources or not, millions of people read them and trust them. You can not just simply ignore them.  

I won't link to the WT either, as I don't want to give them hits.  We donated to Obama, a lot.  We could not vote, but we donated.  I don't think you should be upset at the messenger.  

Obama is doing what you guys are doing in this thread....he is not addressing the fact that Howard Dean spoke a truth.  Here is something from the Times.  Obama criticized Dean when he should not have.  I did not use the word bash, you did.  Obama admits he is more concerned with how it sounded than about truth.

"Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois said he is sure that Mr. Dean "regrets how his statements were interpreted," adding that he will be advised to tone it down from the Senate Democrats today.

"I'm somebody who tends to try to have a message that draws people in, and I think there have been a couple of times when the way he phrases things seem to be pushing people away," Mr. Obama said.

Not all Democrats are running from their party's chairman. Sen. Charles E. Schumer of New York, the head of the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee, said he thinks "it's great" that Mr. Dean is visiting Capitol Hill today and supports the chairman's attacks.

"The Republican attack machine goes after anybody, and they've said far worse things about many, many of our people," Mr. Schumer said, adding that Mr. Dean has "worked great with the DSCC" and expects his Senate colleagues to be "supportive" of him during the meeting."

Now, how about talking like Schumer just did.  Nothing wrong with that.

I am sorry I made you mad, but Obama was wrong. Dean was right.   This is not about HOW Dean said it, it is about WHAT he said.  

If I get marked down, so be it.  Howard Dean was right.  It is NOT him who is dividing by religion. Obama should not have said that.  

by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: I am well aware of right wing sources.
Hey man, I appreciate your enthausiasm for Howie, but what did you expect the only black senator  in COngress to say to that statement. :
*"Yes, Howard's right. The Republicans are mostly lazy, white Christians. " *

Oh, yeah, thats the way to get re-elected.

I mean, it seems that most people are forgetting that a bulk of both parties are White Christians.
Like somebody said before, what does that make Democrats ?

by Bruticus 2005-06-09 09:29AM | 0 recs
Hey, man, my enthusiasm is for the truth.
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/politics/11846985.htm

According to CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll data, 82 percent of self-described Republicans are white Christians -

Not that it matters.  This whole situation is not so much about Howard Dean.  It is more about Democrats who would rather speak properly than powerfully.  It is more about Democrats who are afraid of being attacked by the right wing spin machine.

by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 09:45AM | 0 recs
sorry bout that
i totally misinterpreted your intent!  my bad.
by annatopia 2005-06-09 11:00AM | 0 recs
Something surprises me.
The whole right wing media and blogosphere is going after Howard Dean. They know what to say, they know how to say it.  

The whole left wing blogsphere is standing by trying to decide what to do. Left wing radio mostly avoids the Dean topic, so as not to offend anyone.  Unfortunately one host, not AAR, recently bought out by a former Clear Channel owner, is using Dean as a whipping boy.  

The few posts by blogmasters about Dean are distancing ones, without really criticizing but not defending.  

Finally I notice more have come around to thinking the attacks on Dean by our congress and other Democrats were justified because he did not speak carefully enough.

Something is really wrong with this picture. The fear of the right is a powerful thing.

When did speaking carefully become more important than telling the truth...especially when your country is being flushed down the toilet.

by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 08:21AM | 0 recs
If Mehlman Had Said....
"The Democratic Party is a party of atheists and nonbelievers," the liberal blog community would pitch a fit like no other, condemning him for "hate speech."

But if the Infallible One says it, he is dead on and it must be defended.

Obama is absolutely right. The two Dean remarks of the last week have not advanced the cause of the Democratic Party, they have retarded it.

All I ask is for a little intellectual honesty here. We can't squeal in unison when Republican blowholes make ridiculous categorical statements and then stand and applaud when our own guy does it.

On another diary, someone felt the need to highlight all the absurd commentary served up by Limbaugh, Coulter, et al. I can only surmise that this is meant as justification--how can we criticize Howard Dean when these blowholes have made statements as bad or worse.

That is faulty logic--the same logic our political opponents use when they justify atrocious behavior in Iraq, Gitmo, etc. by reminding us that Al Qaeda is filled with really not-nice people.

I don't believe the goal of the American government is to have incrementally better moral fiber than Al Qaeda. Nor do I believe that the goal of Mr. Dean should be to be incrementally more credible than Ann Coulter and Michael Savage.

by Singiser 2005-06-09 09:26AM | 0 recs
Dean called them Christians.
And all the other Democratic leaders squealed..no no you better not do that.

Yet CNN points out that 82% of the GOP is white and Christian.

Dean's most important statement: they have the agenda of the conversative Christians.  That means we don't have separation of church and state.  

Must not let truth out.

by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 09:49AM | 0 recs
"If Mehlman Had Said....
"The Democratic Party is a party of atheists and nonbelievers," the liberal blog community would pitch a fit like no other, condemning him for "hate speech."

a.) Republicans say shit like this all the time. It would be a single item on the media matters site, atrios would make one snarky comment about it and it would generate a couple kos diaries that would quickly disappear.

b.) The media would not report it because it's only a story when members of your own party pile on. They know Republicans don't do that so the they wouldn't bother to ask any of them about it in the first place.

c.) It is bullshit. Atheists are a minority in a very diverse Democratic Party. Dean's statement is essentially true - the Republican Party is 82% white Christians. And it's that way for a reason - Republicans pander to white Christian fears by scapegoating gays and minorities.

d.) You are a tool.

by miasmo 2005-06-10 12:35AM | 0 recs
Obama, Biden, et al
should take note of the context and the entirety of the statement, and use the pulpit to the Democratic Party advantage.

From Yahoo News

Dean told a forum of journalists and minority leaders Monday that Republicans are "not very friendly to different kinds of people, they are a pretty monolithic party ... it's pretty much a white, Christian party."

Challenged on that during the NBC interview, Dean said "unfortunately, by and large it is. And they have the agenda of the conservative Christians."

"This is a diversion from the issues that really matter:
Social Security, and adequate job opportunity, strong public schools, a strong defense," Dean said.

My thoughts:

  1. Dean said it is a distraction from the real issues, Social Security, jobs, schools, etc. -- and yet Obama, Biden, et al are focusing on the "white, Christian party" statement (at least from the news sources I've seen.)  They are not taking the opportunity presented by Dean to throw the issues back at the interviewer.  Now, it is possible that they did take the opportunity, but that is not what is getting reported -- NewsMax can't be trusted to be the Democratic Party's friend.  Perhaps in voicing our opinions to the Democratic leaders who have distanced themselves from Dean's comments, we should remind them of this golden opportunity, and accept that they may have done so, but it is ending up on the editing room floor because it does not make for good headlines;

  2. An excellent example would be Amnesty International's spokesman on Chris Wallace's show on Fox News, not taking Wallace's bait and constantly refocusing the heat back on BushCo;

  3. When Phil Jackson was coaching basketball he would say outrageous things ("Sacramento is a cowtown") in order to take the heat of the press, allowing his players to practice and focus on playing their game.  I believe Dean is getting some controversial statements out there precisely to get the discussion back to the issues, and allowing Reid and Pelosi to focus on what they need to do.  Noone would have paid any attention to the head of the DNC saying "we need to focus on SS, jobs, etc." WITHOUT something headline grabbing.  Now it is up to the Democratic leaders (and us pushing both them and the media) to take the opportunity of a microphone and follow through.
by Intellectually Curious 2005-06-09 09:27AM | 0 recs
Wait a minute
Dean "dividing by religion"?  Excuse me?  I can't be hearing Obama right.

The Republicans have been actively dividing by religion for years.  I live in Ohio, where preachers and ministers routinely use their pulpits to praise the Republican agenda and Bush.  A state where they openly told their congregations to vote for Bush before the election.  A state with 2,000 "Patriot Pastors" who are openly using their pulpits and their congregations to get Ken Blackwell (of the 80 lb. paper) elected to be Ohio's next governor.

And who does Randall Terry claim as friend?  Howard Dean?  No.  Frist is his friend.

Howard Dean is not dividing by religion.  And the division by religion he mentioned has already been--and is still-- taking place, aided and abetted by the Republicans.

by SusanD 2005-06-09 10:43AM | 0 recs
Thanks, I was starting to feel very alone here.
I appreciate your response.   They have been doing it, and Obama should realize it.  I worry that our Democrats are afraid to address it. Our Southern churches rang their bells so to speak to push the war in Iraq.  

They divided us politically and religiously.

Many of the religious leaders are trying to control the government.  In Florida this week, another attempt to control judges is going on.  The Florida Supreme Court is taking up the issues of private Christian schools getting public school money.  

Same lawyer as 2000 election for the GOP, can't think of his name.  They are busing in church members to picket the court, so the private religious schools can indoctrinate with taxpayers' money.

And Obama says Dean is dividing by religion.  It was not a good thing to say.

by concerned democrat 2005-06-09 10:57AM | 0 recs
Can Obama be this naiive?
I find it hard to believe that Obama attacked Dean without understanding the context of Dean's remarks. If he wished to add to the discussion, he might have pointed out that Democrats ARE people of faith, yet understand that faith is a personal decision. He might also point out that the policies of the Bush administration have specifically promoted the agenda of a single religious group. This truly divides and diverts our attention from more important issues.

I am appalled that Democrats have not taken advantage of Dean's comments to explain that pointing out the reality of the BUSH wing of the Republican is of little importance compared to the repeated lies which the media ignores.

We read yesterday that Kerry got a D in political science. It would appear that he is not alone when it comes to understanding how to control media events.

by mperloe 2005-06-09 01:42PM | 0 recs

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