A Request to the PUMA here (seriously) (update2x)

Writing this diary was a very tough decision and it may go very poorly.  I prefer that we don't start a flame war here and if we do , I will simply delete the thread.

Okay, please read the whole thing before telling me to go f myself.

I know there are PUMA here, some are willing to talk and others are not, but you are here either way.  I have a request, an honest and straightforward one:

When you visit the PUMA blogs, please ask them to stop attacking Michelle Obama.  

After Hillary's amazing speech last night, I thought I would head to several PUMA blogs to see what the reaction was.  I was not surprised to see that they are still not okay with Barack (not the point of the diary, please don't discuss it here), but I was surprised at the vitriol being thrown at Michelle.  Frankly, I was appalled.  Here is why:

The people were using the same frames, same attacks, and the same horrible words about Michelle that the Republicans have been using against Hillary since 1991.  Hillary was a bitch, but now Michelle is one.  The comments only got worse from there. Are you (like the Republicans) that frightened of a beautiful, intelligent, well spoken woman?  

When the party was united under Bill and these attacks were constantly thrown Hillary's way, we stood up and said "bullshit".  Why?  Because attacking the wife is cold, callous, and completely inappropriate.

In conclusion, feel free to hate Barack and/or wish for his defeat that is not the point here.  But please, PLEASE do not attack Michelle and please, PLEASE stop calling her a bitch.  It is a low that you may not be able to recover from.

I would really appreciate if you could cross-post this at the usual haunts, but I doubt you will.  At the very least, when your friends do this, ask them not to and remind them of the 90's.  You can say something like, "we all know Barack is an empty suit, but Michelle is like Hillary: a beautiful intelligent woman.  Please stop attacking her".

Thanks in advance.

Once again, if a flame war starts.  I will delete the thread, which would be sad because I think the message is important.

UPDATE: It appears we are losing focus. This is not meant to be a PUMA bashing diary. Yes, they have said some horrible things, but using our own ad hominem attacks only lowers our own discourse. Being civil costs us nothing.

UPDATE 2: Zmus had a really great comment that I wanted to make sure everyone here saw. It made me sad but also made me think and that is why we are here.

Here is Zmus:

I have a different take on this

We should see that behavior as a warning for ourselves. For years, we have looked on in horror at republican behavior on how they conduct themselves in the public discourse. And here we have people supposedly liberal who very quickly pick up many of the same horrible themes and messages that were so recently used on Bill Clinton and Hillary during the 90s. This is how easy it can happen. Good people going down those roads. Treating people with humanity needs to be a key aspect of liberalism, something that separates us from the win at all costs conservative ideology. The ends do not justify the means. And there really is something worse than losing. by zmus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:37:44 PM EST

Tags: Hillary, Michelle, PUMA, Republicans (all tags)



Long shot

I know this probably won't work, but I think it was important to try.

I would be happy if people could rec this so more PUMA have a chance to see it.


by CAchemist 2008-08-27 07:18AM | 0 recs
which blogs?

by Al Rodgers 2008-08-27 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?

I don't feel like getting in a pissing match with the PUMAs  by calling them out directly.  It was more than one, when one was too many.

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?

I don't go to many of those places, but I saw comments at Alegre's place about Michelle being "the B word," and that she is what "rhymes with witch."

by politicsmatters 2008-08-27 07:43AM | 0 recs
Or the one....

...where Ted Kennedy was being ridiculed for his brain tumor, because, you know, he didn't support Hillary.

by iohs2008 2008-08-27 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?

Here's a sample from Riverdaughter's Confluence

stateofdisbelief, on August 25th, 2008 at 12:40 pm Said:
O fer chrssakes. They probably stuck a turkey baster up there to make sure anyone who tried to go after her in the election would be considered horrible.

stateofdisbelief, on August 25th, 2008 at 12:43 pm Said:
Sm77 --
if they announce she's preggers I guarantee it's a ruse. then they can announce the `miscarriage" either after the "whitey tape" is released or after whatever "October surprise" is waiting.
Awww poor Obamas....how can you attack them at a time like this????
I can hear it now. I'm not buying it.
Been there...saw that...heard it all before.

stateofdisbelief, on August 25th, 2008 at 12:48 pm Said:
It's an old political trick...She's pregnant

  1. Awww...isn't that nice. They ARE just like us...they reproduce and everything!
  2. Can't attack her in ads or comments...SHE'S PREGNANT
  3. Ohh...she lost the baby...how can you attack the Obamas at a time like this????
Politics of the Past....I thought that was what Barky WASN"T about.

Cate, on August 25th, 2008 at 12:51 pm Said:
madamab, if she IS preggers, she WILL be off-limits in a lot of peoples' minds...I mean, you wouldn't want to upset her by calling her out for being an American-hating racist, would you?
Very clever, if true. AHHHHH....just think, a baby in the White House...how cuuuuute....better than any dog, for sure.

JulieS9164, on August 25th, 2008 at 12:53 pm Said:
Personally, I say "Go, Deb!" Serves the Dems right for kicking her to the curb simply for voicing an opinion.
Slightly OT: Every time I see Obama-Biden my mind automatically reads "Obama Bin Laden". It's really weird.

stateofdisbelief, on August 25th, 2008 at 1:09 pm Said:
jjmtacoma --
Like a said earlier in the thread....I can just envision Axelfraud shoving that turkey baster up her hooha. Someone do a dna test quick!

SweetieSue!, on August 25th, 2008 at 1:13 pm Said:
Dee, dont you think they'd name the baby "Obama Jr."? Just think four adorable years of little "Bam-Bam" hiding behind the desk in the Oval Office?
I need an analgesic just thinking about it.

parentofed, on August 25th, 2008 at 1:18 pm Said:
Dee, sounds funny, but I'll bet it would be something tacky like that.
Obama/DNC still don't get it. Liberals may like Teddy, and MA may like Teddy, and the whole nation may pity him for his illness, but when it comes to running in a US campaign, Ted Kennedy couldn't get elected National Dog Catcher. He gave Obama a big push, and I'lll never, ever forgive him for that, but Teddy will not affect national politics. Period.
On a similar note, the folks that oooh & ahhh and want to protect Mechelle are folks already committed to Oblah. If she's preggie, it's not to protect her from criticism, it's to protect HIM from the fallout of her toxic mouth & attitude. She's not outspoken & strong-minded, she's an angry jerk with a big ole chip who wants to tell off the very people she needs to court.

stateofdisbelief, on August 25th, 2008 at 1:22 pm Said:
Dee...if there is a REAL pregnancy (I think if it's announced its another fraud ruse) then it wasn't an Obama-Obama production.
Donna Brazilla held her down, while Pellooosi shoved a sock in her mouth. Kerry and Biden held her legs and Axelfraud administered the turkey baster solution.

parentofed, on August 25th, 2008 at 1:36 pm Said:
eh, er, it could be I have a weird mind, but I have long noted that cheating spouses tend to lose weight & slick themselves up. I've heard rumors about Donna B being gay, but it isn't a little odd that both Donna & Howie have lost weight, and are big-time fixin' up. I don't think it's just for the convention, because these two have been primetime players for a long time.

by wrb 2008-08-27 07:44AM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?

Wow...that's just awful.  Did I actually see some sort of rape scenario in there?  What the fuck is wrong with these people?

by freedom78 2008-08-27 08:03AM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?

Its sad.  I imagine that at some point they will realize what they have become, but it may be too late.  Some people have crossed a line that can't be uncrossed.

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 08:16AM | 0 recs
It's already been crossed

But there's no sadness that these people have sacrificed their blogging careers once and for all.

by iohs2008 2008-08-27 11:01AM | 0 recs
they have sacrified far more than that.

They have sacrificed their principals and their character to the altar of pride.

Make no mistake, this is no longer about Hilary Clinton, feminism, or seeing the "will of the people" done.

This is about the hurt pride of a few people who despise everything Obama is (regardless of whether they even KNOW what he is, besides a black man.  Most everything else is ripped from their twisted imagination entirely.)

They have become everything we, and at some point THEY, were devoted to fighting.

God help them and bring them back from insanity.  and the rest can go jump in a lake for all I care.  

by DawnG 2008-08-27 03:45PM | 0 recs
Rape scenario

These posts make me sick to my stomach, especially the ones with images of violence against women.  

I've cringed along with other women at the sexist language used by the media against Hillary.  I understand that anger.  I cannot, however, understand supposed feminists participating in this kind of hateful discourse, or, just as bad, sitting by silently and giving tacit approval.

Vote for whomever you want to vote.  Make your own decisions about the issues and about Obama's fitness for the presidency.  

But remember, when you engage in sexist attacks against Michelle, you attack ALL women.

by katpee 2008-08-27 10:02AM | 0 recs
Supposed feminists

You can't care about women when you care only for yourself.

by iohs2008 2008-08-27 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Rape scenario

Love to have read your diaries during the primaries when sexism was an issue and folk said you know it's probably not a good thing to let this pass regardless of who you support because this affects all women.

Cite them I'd love to read them

by 12 dogs and a blog 2008-08-27 03:55PM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?
Boy, howdy, we don't need or want people like that in the party, no matter how many times they declare themselves to be "lifelong Democrats that voted for McGovern".
Holy crap.
by skohayes 2008-08-27 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?

Some of these people probably aren't and never were democrats.

The actual Democrats at these sites have crossed the line from political discourse to hate speech slowly.  They just haven't realized it yet.  I hope they figure it our soon, though.

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?

It is made worse by how heavily moderated that site is.

You get banned instantly for posting anything vaguely pro-Obama or anti-McCain  (I got banned for posting a quote from Balkanization criticizing McCain for not opposing the Bush torture bill)

Yet that stuff stayed up all day and some of their front pagers participated in the discussion.

by wrb 2008-08-27 08:23AM | 0 recs
Alegre hypocrite

That twit had the audacity to pollute MYDD with her whining over the whole summer and once the primary was over, she bolted right away(or was probably banned, I do not know). She wanted our sympathy for being hushed at Dkos yet she moderates readers on her site. I guess she can't treat others like she wants to be treated.

by Pravin 2008-08-27 08:27AM | 0 recs
Alegra's the lowest of the low

I keep hoping after this whole "it's all about me!" tantrum that she decides to come back here (or to any other respected liberal blogging site) so people can flame her.

by iohs2008 2008-08-27 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?

I never believe those "life long" Democrat stories anyway.

by Bush Bites 2008-08-27 08:52AM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?
Isn't it funny that they all say the exact same thing (like someone was coaching them, perhaps?)- "I've been a lifelong Democrat, I've been voting Democrat for 30 years."
Right- you voted for someone like Walter Mondale and you won't vote for Obama? Really?
by skohayes 2008-08-27 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?

I feel soiled having just read that vile trash.  Some people need psychological help. I wish I hadn't read it.

by whognu 2008-08-27 08:15AM | 0 recs
Those people are fucking sick.

I'm disgusted. This is one of the first things I read this morning, and it makes me want to punch someone. Those people aren't Democrats.

by sricki 2008-08-27 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Those people are fucking sick.

Do you have any Clintonista friends that turned into PUMAs after the primaries?  Would you talk to them?

As for going to the blogs, it ruined my whole night.  I was so happy after Hillary's speech, and couldn't fathom what I was about to walk into.

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Those people are fucking sick.

A lot of Clinton supporters, especially the people who later became PUMAs, didn't like me during the primaries. I defended Barack too much. Most of my friends were Obama supporters.

by sricki 2008-08-27 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Those people are fucking sick.

Thorazine. It's a beautiful thing.

by ragekage 2008-08-27 09:38AM | 0 recs
I know this is bad, but

for now can we stop condemning for a couple of minutes and try to find someone that will help make it stop.  There are pumas here who wouldn't want to sink to this level.

Please help us rational PUMAs.

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 08:35AM | 0 recs
Re: I know this is bad, but

CA, the thing is, rational and puma are mutually exclusive concepts.

Anyone identifying as a "puma" cannot be separated from the kinds of comments you saw at those blogs and are posted above. This is who they are. This is what they do.

The people you're really trying to reach, I think, are those former Clinton supporters who are tempted by some of the puma propaganda and think they're in like company at those sites. They need to be reminded that pumas are not Democrats. They need to be persuaded to stay away from those sites, not to go there to advocate for decency.

As you saw, the pumas left decency behind them a while ago. If there are any pumas lurking around this site, they clearly don't belong here.

by BobzCat 2008-08-27 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: I know this is bad, but


Hello. I came to see your diary and to thank you for visiting mine and being kind.

Thank you.

12 dogs.

by 12 dogs and a blog 2008-08-27 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: I know this is bad, but

Hey 12,

Glad we can talk with civility even when we disagree.  You are standup in my book.

Unrelated, did you ever put up your solar panels?

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: It is certainly interesting.

Can't afford them but I have figured out a way to get solarized hot water and I have someone here interested which is more than 1/2 the battle. Thank you for asking. Things move slow and steady here. Took forever to get a drive and we've had some storm damage as a result of all the rain.

I dunno about being stand up though. Been kind of crotchety today.

Just wanted to say hello and I'm facinated by the discourse on the blogs. Kind of like being in a frat house sometime.

by 12 dogs and a blog 2008-08-27 08:15PM | 0 recs
I have a different take on this

We should see that behavior as a warning for ourselves.  For years, we have looked on in horror at republican behavior on how they conduct themselves in the public discourse.  And here we have people supposedly liberal who very quickly pick up many of the same horrible themes and messages that were so recently used on Bill Clinton and Hillary during the 90s.  

This is how easy it can happen.  Good people going down those roads.  Treating people with humanity needs to be a key aspect of liberalism, something that separates us from the win at all costs conservative ideology.  The ends do not justify the means.  And there really is something worse than losing.  

by zmus 2008-08-27 09:37AM | 0 recs
Re: I have a different take on this

Wow, well said.

I hadn't thought of this in those terms.  It just makes me more sad.

Can I add this to my diary as an update?  With due credit of course.

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: I have a different take on this

I would be honored.

by zmus 2008-08-27 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?

I doubt the majority of those people are Democrats, but if they are I would rather lose without them than win with them.

That's absolutely disgusting.

Sometimes when I read message boards I get this thought: "Can there really be a human being on the other side of the intertubes who is writing this stuff."

I have no use for people like that.

by PSUdan 2008-08-27 10:52AM | 0 recs
pardon my french

fucking assholes

those miserable peices of shit have nothing better to do then to spew that hate speech

"if they announce she's preggers I guarantee it's a ruse"

" then they can announce the `miscarriage" either after the "whitey tape"

"Donna Brazilla held her down, while Pellooosi shoved a sock in her mouth"

these are the words from the scum of society I hate these people  

by wellinformed 2008-08-27 11:19AM | 0 recs
Re: which blogs?

Oh my God,
I am aghast, and sick.  This is abhorrent.  Thank god this whole rift came up, to drive these people into the sick little corner they've built for themselves.

If Hillary read even what little has been posted here just now, I think she would vomit and cry.

by Particle Noun 2008-08-27 03:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Long shot

Anything is possible after that great speech by Hillary. Good Luck with this diary. I admire how you are always trying to raise the bar. Rec

by canadian 2008-08-27 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Long shot

Thanks.  I debated whether this was a good idea but decided sitting silently was condoning it.

It appears, so far, that people are being civil.  Its a start.

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 08:11AM | 0 recs
No one is truly without hope of redemption

though some will choose not to be redemeed.

It never hurts to try.

by chrisblask 2008-08-27 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)

Good post.  Rec'd

by ProgressiveDL 2008-08-27 07:25AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)

The pumas have circled their wagons. If they're not listening to Hillary, they're not going to listen to you.

And if they can't see the hypocrisy and irony of their attacks on Michelle, they won't even look at this diary. They simply don't care about anything but themselves.

by BobzCat 2008-08-27 07:28AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)

I have had several heated but reasonable discussions with known PUMAs here.  Some are willing to talk about our differences. And these are the people I am talking to now.

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 07:30AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)

This diary addresses one of the cognitive dissonances the pumas need to deny. They won't, they can't do it, because if that card fell it might send the rest tumbling.

by BobzCat 2008-08-27 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)

I was a Clinton supporter but I don't post on the PUMA sites. Seems to me your request is reasonable, attacks on Michelle only serve the Republicans and really do spring from the same anti-feminist mindset that drove the ugly attacks on Hillary Clinton in the '90s.

Michelle appears to be a strong and courageous woman, but she does not have the political ambitions Hillary Clinton always had. Not to justify the attacks on Hillary, but she was much more willing to take on her attackers politically.

by souvarine 2008-08-27 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)

"I was a Clinton supporter but I don't post on the PUMA sites"

sounds like you are STILL a Clinton supporter to me

a good one she would be proud of I might add

you make a excellent point

by wellinformed 2008-08-27 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)

The dozen or so active PUMA bloggers are only interested in hearing each other talk. Some of the sites are almost certainly run by Republicans. I doubt they'll listen to you, but I'll rec this anyway.

by Travis Stark 2008-08-27 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)

I think some are willing to listen.  Its a gamble, but I don't think we should sit idly while this happens.

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)

Travis Stark!

Dude, where ya' been?

by chrisblask 2008-08-27 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)


At some point it dawned on me... "Oh CRAP! I've got to make a living!" I was a victim of blogging addiction I'm afraid. Still need to mostly focus on work, but I thought I'd drop by and see how the blogosphere was handling the convention.

by Travis Stark 2008-08-27 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)

PUMAs are lost in their 15 minutes of fame that Faux News is happy to provide.
If you really supported Hillary for progressive issues  Health care / Energy Policy / The Environment / Taxation   there is ABSOLUTELY no way you vote for McCain.    The PUMA largely fall into three categories :
Well off people uneffected by the GOP's destructive policies who cling to the Clinton cult of personality.
People still racial bias is still strong enough to override their logical analysis of the candidates and their positions.
Rethuglicans who believe posing as Dis-effected Hillary supporters helps McCain's cause.

If I were to guess I'd say 1/2 of the PUMAs fall into that third category.   Despite their amplification by the GOP noise machine they are just a hand full of wayward souls :http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8 /15/31818/6878

by mjtosner 2008-08-27 08:08AM | 0 recs
FOX doesn't really buy their story, either.

by chrisblask 2008-08-27 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: FOX doesn't really buy their story, either.

Thuc Nyugen what a twit. How hilarious her voice breaks when saying how the Obama people "cheated" in Indiana and other states. What a dumb twit. I wish I had a TV show to interview these idiots.

She goes on like Obama people had this conspiracy.

by Pravin 2008-08-27 08:32AM | 0 recs
Yeah, we're just amazingly well


The ability to believe in the Massive Obama Conspiracy is 0% different than any other, 9/11 comes to mind...  Tinfoil hats, anyone?

Massive consipiracies are incredibly rare, if they exist at all.  People don't keep secrets worth a crap.

by chrisblask 2008-08-27 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: FOX doesn't really buy their story, either.

The stupefying thing about cognitive dissonance is it seems to wipe out all of the 'I'm-making-a-complete-fool-of-myself' awareness receptors in the brain along with the ability to reason coherently.  This is rapidly leaving the realm of politics and moving into the less savoury regions of human behavioural science.  I can't think of a more comprehensive method of discrediting the PUMA 'movement' than merely listening to their own spokespersons.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-08-27 04:42PM | 0 recs
PUMAs make for good comedy

You know, at first I was enragd. But I think in the absence of a TV season, these PUMA imbeciles can provide me with a lot of entertainment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vUUl8RIy jw

Here is a hilarious clip of Elizabeth Joyce on Larry King last night. With people like her, Obama cannot lose voters because she doesn't even come across as stable. Her eyes keep twitching and popping like the gym teacher in Beavis and Butthead.

by Pravin 2008-08-27 08:39AM | 0 recs
by wrb 2008-08-27 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMAs make for good comedy

Holy crap. I am very non-PC .But damn, those last 3 links nearly offended me. Luckily I was too busy laughing at their idiocy.

by Pravin 2008-08-27 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMAs make for good comedy

Starting it with the the Muslim call to prayer was nice & it just got more tasteful from there.

To think that someone actually thought they were being funny

by wrb 2008-08-27 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMAs make for good comedy

Note: that was made by Patricia Lee, a major Hillary supporter and major hollywood agent.

Which might explain how she got the actors

There are more details on Rumproast

by wrb 2008-08-27 09:34AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMAs make for good comedy

Her website & clients


by wrb 2008-08-27 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: PUMAs make for good comedy

That Daily Show segment should be front-paged.

It's hysterical that Oliver got the entire group of crazies together in one room and then proceeded to mock them with perfect accuracy.

by BobzCat 2008-08-27 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMAs make for good comedy

Sob...the daily show link just brought a tear to my eye.

by ElitistJohn 2008-08-27 01:24PM | 0 recs
Re: PUMAs make for good comedy

She reminds me of Jan or Marsha Brady, only crazier.

by Bush Bites 2008-08-27 09:02AM | 0 recs
It's always all about them.
It seems like they're always saying, "Obama needs to reach out to us."  And somebody asks, well, then, what does Obama have to do, and they come right back with, "Well, he needs to reach out to us."  They want Obama to come grovel to them one at a time on his knees, I guess, which is pretty weird, but what's worse to my mind is that they don't seem to care how OTHER people might be affected by their votes.
You know, Obama wasn't my choice; Edwards was.  After Edwards, it might have been Obama, I guess, but I'm not thrilled about him even now, the way I was about Edwards, or would be now if he were the nominee.
But I never even thought about voting Republican or voting for a 3rd party or not voting, since while I might make it unscathed personally through another 4 years of Republican misadministration, I know a lot of people won't, and I owe something to them, too.
Obama isn't my choice, but I'll vote for him and put a sticker on our car and give him money and stuff envelopes for him, because IT MATTERS who gets elected this fall.  There are things at stake here more important than whether my own wants and needs and preferences are met.
I don't want Obama to beg me to vote for him.  He has more important things to do.  It appalls me how self-absorbed these losers are.  They think they're standing up for some great principle, but the only principle they seem to care about is "Me, me, me!"
by Mumphrey 2008-08-27 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: PUMAs make for good comedy

Wow.  You know you're a complete clown if you're eviserated in a Larry King interview.

Also, impressions matter on camera.  I was left wondering if she drank a gallon of Clorox before they went live.

by fogiv 2008-08-27 03:28PM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)
Here's my request to the resident PUMA:
Please Vote for whomsoever you like, but stop telling me about it.
Pucker Up and kiss My Ass (seriously)
by QTG 2008-08-27 08:59AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously)
Give them the attention they merit.
by Obama44 2008-08-27 09:07AM | 0 recs
i agree with this diary...

and will heartily rec.  that said - i would guess that so many PUMA are pissed at MO because for 2 reasons.  one i think she said some questionable things about hillary during the primary and two, they might see in her a strong woman who let the shite in the media go without calling it out since it would have appeared to benefit her husband.  not sure if im right...

BTW - check out my diary on the media fail on this topic.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/23/2358 45/410

by canadian gal 2008-08-27 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: i agree with this diary...

You have talked (I think) about having friends that went PUMA post-primary.  Is there hope or am I wasting my time?  I am not talking about voting Obama just about civility toward Michelle; my bar for success is really low.

Also, if you are still in contact with them could you forward them my thoughts?

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 09:39AM | 0 recs
i am not in contact with them.

and yes - i think you are wasting your time.  if they are not motivated by HRC's words last night - nothing will move them.  and from reading the comments upthread - some are fucken sick puppies.

by canadian gal 2008-08-27 12:49PM | 0 recs
Re: i am not in contact with them.


I've sometimes snapped at you, particularly when you have seemed to suggest that it was a given that Hillary had been treated worse than Michelle & Barack.

It was usually when I was fresh from reading comments like those above & was very angry.


by wrb 2008-08-27 01:14PM | 0 recs
Speaking of calling people out

CG, you have been a strong feminist voice here throughout. I see that you feel that some anger toward MO may be justified. But can I ask you what you think about the turkey-baster scenario upthread? I guess what I'm asking is, would you agree that these people sound more like sexist, mindlessly cruel freeper assholes than progressive liberal feminists?

by kydoc2 2008-08-27 11:40AM | 0 recs

nothing justifies those hateful words upthread.  and to answer your question - hell yes.

by canadian gal 2008-08-27 12:51PM | 0 recs
Re: i agree with this diary...

"Pissed at" and "dehumanized" are two very, very different things.

by Dreorg 2008-08-27 11:51AM | 0 recs

they are...

by canadian gal 2008-08-27 12:52PM | 0 recs
I really mean this respectfully....

I have heard Clinton supporters, PUMA's, whatever they want to be called, say that McCain is at least an honorable man so they will vote for him and they will then take the White House in 2012.

I have a couple of questions:

1. If John McCain is an honorable man, and he does an honorable job (of getting us into more wars and selecting judges that will take away more of our rights?), but again, become a popular incumbant, do you think he will just give Hillary the White House in 4 years?

2. If you think he will do a lousy job, are you willing to risk the US getting into worse shape and having judges appointed to take away your rights for the chance of hopefully winning the dem nom in 2012?

IMHO, i don't think either one is a logical choice or bet to make if you truly love our country. Take Hillary's words to hart last night, were you just in it for her?

by IowaMike 2008-08-27 09:38AM | 0 recs
No ad hominems please

Only citicisms of actual behaviors or actions.   The only thing that Michelle Obama said that really bothered me is when she refused to commit outright to campaign for Hillary Clinton should she be the nominee.   It was a momentary lapse of class and judgement that looks even worse now that Hillary Clinton has graciously leant her voice of support to Barack Obama and congratulated her on her role as future first lady.   But overall, Michelle Obama has carried herself with grace, dignity, and class - and has proven that she will be a great first lady.  

by activatedbybush 2008-08-27 09:51AM | 0 recs
Re: No ad hominems please

Yeah ummm I'm pretty sure she came out and corrected it afterwards. GET OVER IT

by Dale Johnson 007 2008-08-27 12:11PM | 0 recs
Hey umm no one's perfect

There is nothing to get over.  

by activatedbybush 2008-08-27 12:15PM | 0 recs
Re: No ad hominems please

Why be rude to that person?his/her comment seemed reasonable.

by Pravin 2008-08-27 01:21PM | 0 recs
Luckily pumas are an endangered species

Don't expect any kind of logic or decency from them. They really are mentally ill/have some kind of weird girl crush on Hilary.

They can be quite hilarious though - e.g. they are now gloating that Biden has been excommunicated for supporting abortion rights. Exactly how they reconcile this with devotion to the pro-choice Hillary is anyone;s guess!

by prem28885 2008-08-27 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously) (update

Fuck PUMA.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-27 11:40AM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously) (update

 I'd rather slit my wrists.

by QTG 2008-08-27 12:00PM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously) (update


by CAchemist 2008-08-27 12:06PM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously) (update

 If I'd rather slit my wrists that F** the Pumas, that is a personal choice and is not open to the judgment of others. You may see it as inappropriate, but who I F** (as long as they are consenting adults, of course) is entirely a private matter. If I put wrist-slitting ahead of certain coital options, that also is a highly personal matter, which I was willing to be open and honest about, btw. Now you've gone and hurt my feelings.

by QTG 2008-08-27 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: A Request to the PUMA here (seriously) (update

Did you even read my post?  

Don't be a dick.

Here is your donut; you earned it.

by CAchemist 2008-08-27 12:03PM | 0 recs


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