Pelosi supports health care cost containment over Blue Dog fiscal irresponsibility

by bruh3, Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 02:51:26 PM EDT

To obtain cost containment, the public option needs to have the ability to negotiate pricing. This should be obvious to anyone who claims to be concerned with fiscal responsibility, the debt, the deficit and economic issues in general. The great lie of the Blue Dogs is their claim that they care about fiscal responsibility when clearly they do not give a rat's ass about fiscal issues outside of how they can use such debates to advantage regressive interests.

Indeed, one of my concerns was that the bill coming out of the Waxman committee would harm fiscal responsibility by restraining price negotiation. By so doing, the Blue Dogs showed their true color because price negotiation is one of the ways you would think one would attempt to reduce the cost of any such bill to the American voters.

Thankfully, the pressure of Congressional progressives convinced Pelosi today to chuck the Blue Dogs' effort to derail cost containment.
The Hill is reporting:

"Pelosi is planning to include a government-run public option in the House version of the healthcare bill. She wants to model it on Medicare, with providers getting reimbursed on a scale pegged to Medicare rates."

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/59839- pelosi-nixes-deal-with-blue-dogs-on-heal thcare

The deal was designed to obtain the vote of Blue Dogs who claimed the rates issue was key to their districts. However, as I have long contended, the Blue Dogs, like conservative Dems were with Clinton and like the GOP actors, are bad faith negotiators.

Indeed, the Hill reminds us of this:

"That move, which drew howls of protest from liberal members, prevented the bill from getting stuck in committee. But Ross returned from the August break saying he couldn't support a public option under any circumstances, essentially withdrawing his support for the deal."

Of course, Ross and other Blue Dogs are lying about the appeal of the public option in their districts and states. There is polling data to support my position about Ross's district here:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9 21/784706-AR-04,-MI-01,-GA-12,-TX-28:- These-Blue-Dog-districts-support-public- option,-even-if-tepid-on-Obama

This pattern by the Blue Dogs of moving right as Pelosi and others conceded to them  mirrors the GOP bad faith negotiation of doing the same. For example, moving  right on the co-opt as soon as the Democrats considered it.
One exception may be some of the requests of Sen. Snowe who maybe moving both left and right, but we will see whether she's playing yet another strategy of  trying to kill the bill and the public option.

The value of the party moving left in the House is will be seen in the final bill. By trying to obtain the strongest option possible out of the House, this will increase the chances successful negotiation with the Senate.

Tags: Blue Dogs, cost, Health care, reform (all tags)

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26 Comments

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Ross is such a scum bag....

a bought and paid for whore for the Industrial Health Care Complex...

Actually, I take that back, whores provide a service and actually do something real for their money.  Calling Mike Ross a whore insults whores everwhere!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/22 /mike-ross-sells-property_n_294596.html

by WashStateBlue 2009-09-22 03:21PM | 0 recs
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Re: Ross is such a scum bag....

Ross, however, is just emblematic of a greater problem for the Democratic Party. That we depend on votes from people who are as compromised politically to do the bidding of corporate interests as are the GOP. I am not sure what the short term solution is, but I do think a strong progressive block is a part of any eventual shifting of the balance toward the American rather than DC center.

by bruh3 2009-09-22 03:25PM | 0 recs
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Re: And the American Center looks like?

Shifting the balance to the American center from the DC center accomplishes what, exactly? Majorities in the Senate and House? A Democratic President? Well, that seems to have occurred already.
And if I read the charts in the article cited below, it would seem that the DC Center is actually represents the population at large pretty well. I wish it were more progressive, but I'll settle for a close correlation with reality.
From http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/11/halp in-teixeria-progressive-study/  :

Two new studies (here and here) conducted by the Progressive Studies Program at the Center for American Progress break down the electorate on a new 5-point scale of political ideology that reflects the primary approaches people ascribe to today. Under this schematic, 34 percent of the country self-identifies as `conservative', 29 percent as `moderate', 15 percent as `liberal', 16 percent as `progressive', and 2 percent as `libertarian'.

After moderates are asked which approach they lean towards, the overall ideological breakdown of the country divides into fairly neat left and right groupings with 47 percent of Americans identifying as progressive or liberal and 48 percent as conservative or libertarian and the rest unsure.

These ARE the good old days!

by QTG 2009-09-23 03:22AM | 0 recs
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Re: And the American Center looks like?

55 to 70 percent of the country supports the public option, and that number is toward the high end at 70 with medicare for all. Once again, you and DC are in the minority. Ross is in the minority in his position in his own district.

by bruh3 2009-09-23 08:52AM | 0 recs
97250_45
Re: And the American Center looks like?

We'll see what happens and who turns out to have been right when the dust settles. I'm not nervous. But as far as being in the minority is concerned, I like you and everyone else is in a minority of 1 in over 300,000,000.
 But on a personal note, you are once again implying that I don't personally support a Public Option or it's functional equivalent - which you know to be a lie because I've told you before.

Please don't stop lying. I don't want to ever change my low opinion of you.

by QTG 2009-09-23 09:19AM | 0 recs
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Re: And the American Center looks like?

I am not going t allow you to hijack my diary so I will respond only as far as I need to to the fact you are far outside of the majority of the American center versus DC center.

The statistical evidence remains consistent and has for almost a decade. in addition to the polling data you can look up for the last few months of the PO polling, there is this from 2005, and I can bring more:

"2. The public wants the government to play a leading role in providing health care for all. For example, in an October, 2003 Washington Post/ABC poll, by almost a two-to-one margin (62 percent to 33 percent), Americans said that they preferred a universal system that would provide coverage to everyone under a government program, as opposed to the current employer-based system. Similarly, in Kaiser polls from 1992 to 2000, a large majority of the public agreed that the federal government should guarantee medical care for people who don't have health insurance. In a slightly different question asked more recently by Kaiser in June 2003, more than seven in ten adults (72 percent) agreed that the government should guarantee health insurance for all citizens, even if it means repealing most of the tax cuts passed under President George W. Bush, while less than one-quarter (24 percent) disagreed with this statement. Finally, the last time Gallup asked whether the federal government should make sure all Americans have health coverage, they agreed that was a federal government responsibility by 62-35 (November, 2002).

3. American overwhelmingly agree that access to health care should be a right. In 2000 just as in 1993, eight in ten agreed that health care should be provided equally to everyone, and over half agreed "strongly" or "completely". In addition, in 2004, about three-quarters (76%) agreed strongly or somewhat that access health care should be a right.

4. The public says it is willing to pay more in taxes to provide every American with health care coverage. In August, 2003, Pew found Americans favoring, by 67-26, the US government guaranteeing "health insurance for all citizens", even if that meant repealing most of "recent tax cuts". And the majority was scarcely diminished (67-29) by referring not to repealing tax cuts but more directly to "raising taxes". Similarly, Greenberg Quinlan Rosner/Public Opinion Strategies (GQR/POS) found, in January, 2004, a 69-28 majority saying they would be willing to pay more per year in federal taxes to assure every American citizen received health care coverage."

http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweb log.com/donkeyrising/archives/001291.php

by bruh3 2009-09-23 09:25AM | 0 recs
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Re: And the American Center looks like?

I didn't try to hijack your thread. I responded to your false implication that I have ever been anything but a supporter of a public option. If ou don't want me to address your lies about me, then don't lie about me. Quite simple, really.

by QTG 2009-09-23 09:47AM | 0 recs
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Re: And the American Center looks like?

This will be my last post to you. Stop trying to hijack the diary.

by bruh3 2009-09-23 09:49AM | 0 recs
97250_45
Re: And the American Center looks like?

Fine. Your responses are never germaine anyway, just lying attacks.

And, to correct your latest lie, I never attempted to hijack your thread which is plain to the most casual observer.

by QTG 2009-09-23 09:52AM | 0 recs
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Re: And the American Center looks like?

In addition to polling data, there is also the reality of what people thought they were working for or voting for last year.

Here's a link to former Obama campaign workers discussing the issue at Daily Kos:

http://wwww.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/ 9/7/778148/-Former-Obama-Staffers-Are-St anding-Up-for-a-Robust-Public-Option

Additionally, then candidate Obama against McCain advocated specifically for a public option as integral. He was elected on that platform by over 60 mil peo. Thus, reinforcing the point that the PO is what the American people want even if DC does not want it.

by bruh3 2009-09-23 09:34AM | 0 recs
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OBAMA SUPPORTS THE PUBLIC OPTION

and repeatedly says so, quite eloquently. It is not his sole objective, however, which is what annoys you and a few others. That's tough, I guess, but I can't help but think that those who would toss the baby out with the bath water before the baby is even born or the water is drawn are - there's just no better word for it - stupid like a laser beam.

by QTG 2009-09-23 09:43AM | 0 recs
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Re: And the American Center looks like?

finally least you claim that people do not consider or did not consider health care critical here is one other poll to illustrate that along with the economy, health care is one of the top issues for voters:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/122885/econom y-healthcare-top-important-problem-list. aspx

by bruh3 2009-09-23 09:37AM | 0 recs
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Re: exsqueeze me?

and precisely when did I say that people aren't concerned about health care?

by QTG 2009-09-23 09:45AM | 0 recs
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Re: Pelosi supports health care

Pinch me!

by Drummond 2009-09-22 10:32PM | 0 recs
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Re: Pelosi supports health care cost containmen

I don't think cost-containment is a great idea unless we seriously increase the supply of doctors and nurses.  We train somewhere around 25000 doctors a year, the same number as 40 years ago.  On top of that, the average doctor graduates with $200,000 of debt.  We've got the same problem when it comes to educating nurses.

Really, if we're going to chop reimbursement rates across the entire industry, medical and nursing schools become grossly negative investments.

We need to increase the number of medical schools and, frankly, eat the costs as a country.  Otherwise simple cost containment will have rough consequences.

by SuperCameron 2009-09-23 06:36AM | 0 recs
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Re: Pelosi supports health care cost containmen

Yes, by all means bankrupt the country because you do not think addressing the issue is a good idea.

by bruh3 2009-09-23 08:50AM | 0 recs
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Re: Pelosi supports health care cost containmen

A constructive response might have sounded something like "I hadn't thought about that.  Perhaps we should look at better education funding for students in health related fields as well."  Or, "I heartily disagree.  We've got way too many doctors as it is.  I'm sick of them!"

Going on the warpath with every person who makes even a passing, non-derisive comment really isn't necessary.  It's no different from the Bush-Cheney mentality that plagued us for so much of the decade already.

by SuperCameron 2009-09-23 05:20PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Pelosi supports health care cost containmen

Since you are able to come up with the response, then it is clear you are raising a red herring to deflect from cost containment as the critical issue.

by bruh3 2009-09-23 05:53PM | 0 recs
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Constructive Response

LMFAO.

by DTOzone 2009-09-23 07:56PM | 0 recs
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Re: Constructive Response

Yeap you and your fellow cohorts are very predictable. when I read  the comment I knew it was just one of  your type of shill responses, and your showing up here confirms my view that this is exactly what this poster is here to do- to shill.

by bruh3 2009-09-23 09:50PM | 0 recs
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I thought you decided not to waste your time

by DTOzone 2009-09-23 10:29PM | 0 recs
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Beyond Hilarious

Bruh mentioning red herrings or switching subjects is exactly like Eric Cantor whining about how slow the health care debate is going and it keeping the Republican party from all it's other critical business....

You just can't find this comedy gold outside of the blogs!

by WashStateBlue 2009-09-24 08:22AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Pelosi supports health care cost containmen

here by they way is a la times article that you will see more of if the bill passes without significant cost controls:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/ nation/la-na-healthcare-affordability2.a r1-2009sep24,0,3253631.story

You can yalp under as many screen names as you want, and the reality will be the same when most Americans begin to sink under the weight of what is being proposed without cost containment.

by bruh3 2009-09-23 09:52PM | 0 recs
97250_45
Re: You're absolutely right, of course.

If you really want to bankrupt the country, then the prescription for that, according to the President of the Mayo Clinic is this:

Dr. CORTESE: Well, we are not fighting the issue so much from the insurance side. We just think everybody should have insurance. When people start talking about the public plan, it wasn't clear what kind of public plan we were talking about. And if a public plan looks like Medicare, I think the country would go broke almost overnight because Medicare is already proposed to go broke by 2015 to 2017.

If what they meant by a government-run public plan was the federal employees' health benefit plan - well, that one's quite good. That is one that could be used to insure people. So we want people to be focused and end up with our citizens insured and that we're starting to pay for value in the near term.

WERTHEIMER: Dr. Denis Cortese is president of the Mayo Clinic. We reached him in Rochester, Minnesota. Dr. Cortese, thanks very much.

Dr. CORTESE: Linda, you are welcome.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story .php?storyId=113052504

You can read the whole transcript, where Cortese also discusses Physician compensation and its role in the success of the Mayo Clinic model.

by QTG 2009-09-23 09:33AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: You're absolutely right, of course.

Yes, that makes sense- we would go broke if we are paying less for health care rather than if we are paying more for it.

by bruh3 2009-09-23 09:39AM | 0 recs
97250_45
Re: Interesting

You are smarter than President of the Mayo clinic.
In fact, he makes no sense!

get help now

by QTG 2009-09-23 09:56AM | 0 recs

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