TPM on deceptive robo-call story

by Bob Johnson, Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 11:01:41 AM EDT

TPM Muckracker is digging further into the story of the deceptive robo-calls in North Carolina that targeted African-American voters.

(Note: My earlier dairy on this subject, Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls aimed at blacks, was pulled from the top of the rec list by someone in charge.)

From TPM:

Nonprofit Women's Voices Women Vote Stops Suspicious N.C. Robo Calls

Yesterday we posted about suspicious calls being made in North Carolina. The calls purported to be from a man who identified himself only as "Lamont Williams" and told people to wait for a vote registration packet in the mail and said, "All you need to do is sign it, date it and return your application. Then you will be able to vote and make your voice heard."

Democracy North Carolina, a government watchdog, cried foul, saying that the calls went out to "black neighborhoods" and was evidently a vote suppression tactic since the registration deadline for the presidential primary has already passed. The North Carolina state elections board got involved and asked for the public's help in determining the source of the calls, which apparently blocked caller ID from showing the number. You can listen to the call here (wav).

Now Facing South reports that a Washington nonprofit called Women's Voices Women Vote is behind the calls.

There is more to this story. The WVWV explanation doesn't hold water. Maggie Williams, Clinton's campaign manager, was on the Leadership Team (cached link) of WVWV as recently as last May.

There's more at TPM...

Personal note
My previous diary on this topic was removed from the very top of the rec list and I was halted from posting until I agreed to abide by the followiung warning:

You have been warned...

2008-04-30 14:22:46

Refrain from diaries with inflammatory headlines, in this case racist connotations. Read the guidelines.

I completely disagree that my diary headline contained any racist connotations. It was a summary of the piece cited in my diary which came from a highly reputable source.

The moderators responsible for giving me that warning are wrong and I only accepted the warning so that I could post again.

Tags: Maggie Williams, Robo-Calls (all tags)

  • 195 Comments
  • 0 recs
  • Share
  • Permalink

Comments

195 Comments

Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

I was wondering where your original diary went.

by aaaa05 2008-04-30 11:05AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
It's down the list, but it was pulled from the top

... of the rec list.

by Bob Johnson 2008-04-30 11:06AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: It's down the list, but it was pulled from the

So was Mumphrey's diary Racism on this Site. It disappeared from top of the rec list to nowhere around noon.

The only two non Hillary diaries get removed.

I thought the whole point of rec lists and netroots etc was that the community editorialises itself.

If they go for you, Bob, then it's an incredibly short term hit for a long term betrayal of the principles of this blog

by brit 2008-04-30 11:34AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
My diary is not a Hillary

Clinton diary and it is still on the Rec List.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/29/1845 20/166

Paul Krugman: Barack Obama is right on gas tax holiday.
by TomP, Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:45:20 PM EST

Full statement from this group at issue in your diary below.

I have no idea what they are or were doing, but I see the spin today by Obama supporters.  Some folks want it to be bad and want to tie it to Clinton.  Especially after all the Rev. Wright stuff.  

This part was interesting:

Bryant (Ethel Bryant, Edgecombe County Board of Elections) agreed the method seems to be working. "They send out the voter's applications in a pre-packaged envelope with postage paid," she said. "Many are female and from rural areas, where it is harder to run out and get a stamp to post a letter. Since it doesn't need a stamp, they are able to drop it right in the mail."

"Voter Registration Cards Pour In," The Daily Southerner, February 29, 2008

"This is, by far, the largest we've seen," Johnnie Mclean (deputy director of the State Board of Elections)said. One reason for the state's uptick are prefilled voter registration applications from a Washington-based voting advocacy (WVWV) group that were mailed to thousands of private mailboxes in North Carolina. Recipients can verify their information and mail the cards to the state elections office.

"Young Voters: Sign Us Up", Greensboro News-Record, March 9, 2008

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 408/Womens_Voices_apologizes.html

Statement of Page Gardner, President, Women's Voices, Women Vote.

"This week, more than 276,000 North Carolina residents received a voter registration application from Women's Voices, Women Vote. North Carolina is one of 24 states where we mailed a total of more than 3 million voter registration applications.

"In addition to the mailing, calls were made to mail recipients for whom we have working phone numbers to alert the household they would be receiving a voter registration form and encouraging them to register to vote. In advance of the mail, a letter was sent and calls were made to Gary Bartlett in the North Carolina Board of Elections Office notifying them of the intent and content of our mailing effort. A copy of the letter and a press release sent to North Carolina media announcing the registration effort is attached.

"We understand concerns have been raised about the source of phone calls placed by Women's Voices, Women Vote. These calls were our sincere attempt to encourage voter registration for those not registered for the general election this fall. We understand North Carolina's primary registration effort deadline was April 11, (other than those participating in early voting who may register and vote at the same time this week). We apologize for any confusion our calls may have caused. Our intent and purpose was solely to call attention to the registration applications we hope will be completed and returned to the Board of Elections office making thousands more North Carolinians participants in one of the most important elections of our lifetimes.

Women's Voices. Women Vote has been in contact with the North Carolina State Board of Elections to work together to resolve any confusion regarding our voter registration efforts. Women's Voices. Women vote is also working with its mail vendor and postal officials in North Carolina in an attempt to delay the delivery of the voter registration applications until after the primary.

"Women's Voices. Women Vote is a non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to bringing the voices of unmarried women to our democracy. Our goal in this election cycle is to register 1 million of these women on their own, in turn helping to bring their concerns regarding making affordable health care, equal pay for equal work and a brighter future for themselves and the lives of their families, to the forefront of the election this fall.

"Already this cycle, our voter registration efforts have generated more than 26,600 registration applications in North Carolina. Women's Voices. Women Vote first registered voters in North Carolina in 2004. Nationally, Women's Voices Women Vote registered over 100,000 new voters in both 2004 and 2006. Since July of 2007, almost 400,000 additional individuals have returned our applications in anticipation of participating in the 2008 general election.

Bryant (Ethel Bryant, Edgecombe County Board of Elections) agreed the method seems to be working. "They send out the voter's applications in a pre-packaged envelope with postage paid," she said. "Many are female and from rural areas, where it is harder to run out and get a stamp to post a letter. Since it doesn't need a stamp, they are able to drop it right in the mail."

"Voter Registration Cards Pour In," The Daily Southerner, February 29, 2008

"This is, by far, the largest we've seen," Johnnie Mclean (deputy director of the State Board of Elections)said. One reason for the state's uptick are prefilled voter registration applications from a Washington-based voting advocacy (WVWV) group that were mailed to thousands of private mailboxes in North Carolina. Recipients can verify their information and mail the cards to the state elections office.

"Young Voters: Sign Us Up", Greensboro News-Record, March 9, 2008

Do facts matter, though?  Zealotry seems to be all that matters on both sides.

Many will pick out facts to support your preconceived notions.  Any truth becomes irrelevant in the zeal to attack the opponent and glorify the chosen candidate. Many in the netroots stand revealed as just likw dittoheads.

And so it goes.

by TomP 2008-04-30 11:43AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: My diary is not a Hillary

Your diary was fine and fairly uncontroversial.

I'm worried about the dissenting diaries being downrated from the admins. And that would be the same if they were pro Hillary

by brit 2008-04-30 11:49AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Fair enough.

I agree with free speech.

I did not read the one diary by Bob Johnson, but I did recommend the other diary, although I had some provisos (in my mind) to that recomendation.  There are a very small number of people here who seem more willing to use racist themes.  The overwhelming majority of Clinton supporters do not and are not.  Nor is Hillary or Bill Clinton.  So I recommended that diary, although I thought it exaggerated the problem here.

I find there to be more actual dialogue here than on Daily Kos.

by TomP 2008-04-30 11:56AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: My diary is not a Hillary

withhold judgment

let's wait until we have more facts

by Alice Marshall 2008-04-30 01:30PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
additional facts

Chris Bowers has more on this

by Alice Marshall 2008-04-30 02:19PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

... disenfranchisement among friends?

It's not like that's something Rove would pull...

by Bob Johnson 2008-04-30 11:20AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

and what's a little blaming it all on Hillary? jeez.

by swissffun 2008-04-30 11:27AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

I am not yet convinced that this was coordinated with any campaign.  Regardless, it's still bad.

by Adam B 2008-04-30 11:30AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

well then why defend a diary that clearly states it was Hillary behind this?

by swissffun 2008-04-30 12:06PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

Her campaign may be linked to this.  It may not be linked to this.  WVWV clearly is.

by Adam B 2008-04-30 12:18PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

It stated it so clearly, that it didn't have to say it all /doublethink

It said Hillary backers are behind it, which is simply factual.  

by PantsB 2008-04-30 12:20PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

And if you're a believer in democracy and dialogue, why troll Bob Johnson down-thread for merely quoting his own diary?

Poster suppression methinks

by brit 2008-04-30 12:43PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

Do we know the relative percentage of people receiving these calls who are African-American, or what geographic areas were targeted?  That many reports came from African-Americans doesn't say alot by itself since many people in North Carolina are African-American - we need to know how WVWV targeted calls.

This bothers me alot because the Democratic Party would greatly benefit from WVWV's stated purpose of getting more single women to vote.  The timing, use of a male voice, and failure to identify themselves strongly suggest that either WVWV is spectacularly incompetent or WVWV knew they were not pursuing their official objective.

by CA Pol Junkie 2008-04-30 11:30AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

OMG.

This group is registering unmarried women to vote for the general election. Read the statement by the President on the WVWV website.

http://www.wvwv.org

There is absolutely nothing to this story except that some people who are getting the registration packets are thinking the group is focusing on the primaries rather than the GE. I suspect the group needs better editors.

Most likely, a large percentage of these voters will vote Democratic. That's why both HRC and Obama backers are members of this group.

The only person who should be worried is John McCain. Imagine if 1 million more women voted in 2008 than in 2004!

by madamab 2008-04-30 11:35AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
"some people are thinking"

Um, calling in the middle of the primaries and not specifying in the calls that this program is for the general election are good reasons why "some people ... are thinking the group is focusing on the primaries rather than the GE".

by Adam B 2008-04-30 11:37AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

Unfortunately, there is a difference between WVWV's stated purpose and what they are actually doing.  Between using a male voice, not identifying themselves, and calling after the registration deadline in the primary but before the vote in multiple states it strains credulity to say they were merely incompetent at carrying out their mission.

by CA Pol Junkie 2008-04-30 11:41AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

They are breaking the law.  They are calling with blocked numbers and they don't properly identify themselves in the call.  This is illegal, and a pretty solid indication that they are intentionally trying to suppress voter turnout.

by anevarez 2008-04-30 12:28PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Yeah, what's wrong with a little...

... Class I Felony?

Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.  I'm having a real hard time determing which is the case here.

by tbetz 2008-04-30 12:58PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

How would this disenfranchise someone? There is no there, there. These people raise money to register people to vote and they do a very good job of it. They are fine progressive organization.

This is a shameful attack.

by Little Otter 2008-04-30 11:57AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

How can you register someone to vote, if you call registered voters after the registration deadline is over, and tell them that if they want to vote, they need to wait for a registration packet?

These people say that their purpose is to register people to vote, but they've had complaints against them in 11 states now.

by Joe Buck 2008-04-30 01:08PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Yeah, what's a little African-American voter

More baseless attacks and race-baiting from the master of smear.  I no longer have any respect for you after this tabloid garbage.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 01:15PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
So you

validate the anti-gay slur and use it to justify voter suppression.

Nice.

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 11:26AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

See, now, Easley's comments were inflammatory and offensive. But what's a little gay bashing for effect?

Growing a set doesn't mean being a prick.

by Lettuce 2008-04-30 11:35AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Yeah this comment were it about women would have people in this site up in arms about mysogeny.

I guess it's ok to tell somone, let alone a whole swathe of the electorate to "grow a set"

I troll rate you for sexist remarks.

by Why Not 2008-04-30 11:59AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

this stuff is tame . no wonder the NC governor eludes to stop being pansies.

And I mean this w/ no disrespect,

wow
wash your mouth out with soap

by Alice Marshall 2008-04-30 01:31PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Matter of Relativity

If this is the sole criteria, many Pro-Clinton diaries should have been removed and as quickly.

Double standard on Mydd?  A bias for Clinton?  

by optimusprime 2008-04-30 11:06AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Matter of Relativity

Sure looks like it.

by soccerandpolitics 2008-04-30 12:22PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

I am waiting for more facts to come out before passing judgment on this robocall story.

But setting that side, the fact that you don't believe your headline was race-baiting in the least is emblematic of where this primary has gone.  Please try to be at least minimally self-aware.

by Steve M 2008-04-30 11:06AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

This is saddening. I hope Jerome, Todd or Jonathan comment here to explain what happened. Or at least send you an email explaining the case. That's a horrible charge on a diary that did none of the above.

by Lettuce 2008-04-30 11:08AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

What the hell?  Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls aimed at blacks isn't racial to you?  And like I said - there is only innuendo that these calls were targeting black voters only so the title of the diary was intended to fan the flames of the racial tension.  And funny how this is all coming out right after the Rev. Wright fiasco.  Smoke screen much?

by JustJennifer 2008-04-30 11:09AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Refrain from diaries with inflammatory headlines, in this case racist connotations.

there is nothing inflammatory nor are their racist connotations. Just because its racial doesnt mean its racist

by aaaa05 2008-04-30 11:14AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

The title implied Clinton is backing something that is directed toward hurting the black vote.  That is implying racism.  

by JustJennifer 2008-04-30 11:23AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

the title was an accurate refelction of the story that was reported. I see no problem with a title accurately describing what i will be reading

by aaaa05 2008-04-30 11:49AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

So a title that states "Obama supporters behind move to keep old white granny away from the polls" wouldn't be at all offensive or racist to you, right?

by JustJennifer 2008-04-30 12:22PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: JustJennifer's hypothetical

no, that title would not be offensive to me, as long as some group (say the NAACP's voter reg group) was for some reason calling old women and providing them with incorrect information.  And remember, these stories today are showing that this WVWV group has repeatedly made the same type of errors throughout the primary season.

by distraught 2008-04-30 12:49PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: JustJennifer's hypothetical

To tie this group to Clinton is dubious, at best.  I have asked this question before.  Why can Obama claim that it is unfair to hold him accountable for anything and everything his supporters/surrogates do but it is fair game to do that to Clinton?

by JustJennifer 2008-04-30 01:47PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

no, the story's title said "Clinton BACKERS" -- which is very different than how you interpreted it, which was apparently "Clinton is backing"

wow...

by distraught 2008-04-30 12:54PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

And given that people like Maggie Williams and John Podesta are on the board, "Clinton backers" is provably accurate.

by Joe Buck 2008-04-30 01:09PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Also on the board, for instance, is William McNary, the president of the progressive coalition USAction and a leader of Illinois Citizen Action who has been, reportedly, a vigorous Obama supporters since his 2004 Senate race.

by doberman pinche 2008-04-30 01:13PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

I agree - you have NO PROOF that these robo calls were aimed at black voters ONLY.

by JustJennifer 2008-04-30 11:08AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

No one has made that claim.

by Adam B 2008-04-30 11:10AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

THIS diarist himself: it's all in the title of his unsubstantiated diary.

Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls aimed at blacks

by swissffun 2008-04-30 11:29AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
no one has said "ONLY". nt

by Adam B 2008-04-30 11:31AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: no one has said "ONLY". nt

what a semantics joke

by swissffun 2008-04-30 12:05PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: no one has said "ONLY". nt

It's the difference between being hit by lightning, and a lightning bug. Words matter.

by Adam B 2008-04-30 12:24PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: no one has said "ONLY". nt

Words matter?  So does intent.  NO ONE with an ounce of integrity can argue that the intent of this diarist was nothing less than an attempt to say Clinton operatives were working to disenfranchise African-American voters.  

Cut the bullshit, dude.  You're parsing is sickening, as is this ridiculous "story".

by DaTruth 2008-04-30 12:53PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: no one has said "ONLY". nt

You put "ONLY" in all caps to emphasize it and then when called on it, you brush it off as "semantics?!"  That's the joke.

by soccerandpolitics 2008-04-30 12:26PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
I never wrote 'only.'

That is your interpretation. But they certainly were targeting African-Americans. From the linked TP story:

Democracy North Carolina, a government watchdog, cried foul, saying that the calls went out to "black neighborhoods" and was evidently a vote suppression tactic since the registration deadline for the presidential primary has already passed. The North Carolina state elections board got involved and asked for the public's help in determining the source of the calls, which apparently blocked caller ID from showing the number. You can listen to the call here (wav).

by Bob Johnson 2008-04-30 11:12AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: I never wrote 'only.'

bob

i admire your efforts but the only story here is about obama supporters going berserk.

please re-read all the facts then write your third diary apologizing to hillary and her supporters.

have a nice day.

by doberman pinche 2008-04-30 12:16PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: I never wrote 'only.'

and i suppose that you would like to ignore the efforts of the WVWV, which has repeatedly given bad information to 100s of thousands of potential voters in multiple states.

please see this link, where the story broke: http://www.southernstudies.org/facingsou th/

by distraught 2008-04-30 12:59PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
how many voters have you signed up?

"This is, by far, the largest we've seen," Johnnie Mclean (deputy director of the State Board of Elections)said. One reason for the state's uptick are prefilled voter registration applications from a Washington-based voting advocacy (WVWV) group that were mailed to thousands of private mailboxes in North Carolina. Recipients can verify their information and mail the cards to the state elections office.

"Young Voters: Sign Us Up", Greensboro News-Record, March 9, 2008

by doberman pinche 2008-04-30 01:16PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Right On! After all, I know all sorts of white people named Lamont. A lot of Asians too. Heck I know women named Lamont.

by gert 2008-04-30 02:35PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

TPM is quite good at investigative reporting.  They broke open the US Attorney Scandal, which led to Gonzales' departure.  I hope they get to the bottom of this.

by NewOaklandDem 2008-04-30 11:09AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

You have not been following TPM lately. Paul Kiel won't let the truth get in the way of an opportunity to smear Hillary Clinton. They'll drop the story as soon as it becomes clear that WVWV are the good guys.

by souvarine 2008-04-30 11:13AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Regardless of your opinion of Kiel 9which I don't agree with), I think they do great investigative work, and will get to the bottom of this, no matter who is behind it.

by NewOaklandDem 2008-04-30 11:15AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

They have been complained about in over 10 different states for deceptive robocalls and late mailings of confusing "registration packets."  Now, one state going out late, that's a mistake.  But 10 different states?

This is a professional organization run by people with extensive political experience.  You are really naive enough to think they can't even remember the voter registration deadline?  I'm not going to pass judgment until all of the facts come out.  But so far this looks pretty damn fishy to me.

by belicheat 2008-04-30 11:22AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Racist Connotations

Saying that the title had "racist connotations" is a major stretch. The deceptive robo-calls were in fact allegedly made to black voters. I guess they probably didn't like that you so explicitly accused Clinton supporters of using racially-targeted voter suppression tactics in North Carolina. Maybe "Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls aimed at blacks" was not an appropriate title.

But the moderator also could have asked you to change the title of the diary instead of removing it from the Rec list.

by Hatch 2008-04-30 11:09AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
there are two separate issues here

1.  Did WVWV deliberately or negligently engage in deceptive tactics?

2.  Was it in any way coordinated with a political campaign.

I hope folks can recognize that the first one is worth answering regardless of which candidate is being supported.

by Adam B 2008-04-30 11:09AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: there are two separate issues here

It is an extremely important issue, but writing diaries proclaiming that Clinton backers are trying to disenfranchise black voters is a practice likely to shed more heat than light.

I'd love to get to the bottom of this but there seems to be a little too much partisanship in the air for that to happen.  Judging by the diaries and comments, everyone seems to have already decided that those racist Clintons are at it again.

by Steve M 2008-04-30 11:31AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: there are two separate issues here

"Everyone" has decided "Racist Clintons"?

I read the initial diary. Not one person even suggested the Clintons were racist.

The investigative reporting did however PROVE that many high level Clinton supporters were behind the organisation that made the robo calls.

Nothing was made of the fact that a high proportion of these potential voters were African American. The obvious conclusion had nothing to do with racism, merely the targeting of groups which could be considered pro Obama. It was vote fixing, that's all

So stop making inflammatory accusations about race.

If Bob gets bounced from the rec list for even including this fact in his headline, you should get castigated for making it THE SOLE POINT OF HIS STORY

by brit 2008-04-30 11:56AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: there are two separate issues here

It has already become the gospel truth in Obama-supporting quarters that this was an attempt to suppress the black vote.  No one is even interested in looking for evidence.

The sole evidence for introducing a racial element into the story is the statement by Democracy North Carolina that calls went to "black neighborhoods."  There does not appear to be any evidence that the calls went exclusively to black neighborhoods, or even disproportionately.  Reality-based progressives should be interested in getting to the bottom of this, but I guess it's easier just to assume the conclusion.

Accusing someone of disenfranchising black voters is an extremely incendiary allegation in this country.  It's not something that should be recklessly thrown around in a diary title.

by Steve M 2008-04-30 12:10PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: there are two separate issues here

There was nothing reckless about the allegation. It was fully sourced from two independent and well respected news outlets.

You may chose not to rec the diary, trust it, or read it. But that does not mean it should be bounced.

I've seen much less fact filled diaries, sourced from right wing pundits, stay at the top of the rec list for days.

Where was your moral objectivity then?

by brit 2008-04-30 12:20PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Bob,

I have in the past and will continue in the future to look to you as one of the Obama supporters that can be respectful and with whom I can have a meaningful contradiction.

I was deeply disappointed by your diary, so much so that I needed to write one of my own, just to set the record straight.

I hope that I can continue to count on you to hold yourself to a higher standard.

Regards,

Bob

by bobbank 2008-04-30 11:12AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
My diary and its title were completely accurate

... representations of the linked story. The calls were targeting African-Americans according to the original story and also noted in the TPM piece linked, above:

Democracy North Carolina, a government watchdog, cried foul, saying that the calls went out to "black neighborhoods" and was evidently a vote suppression tactic since the registration deadline for the presidential primary has already passed. The North Carolina state elections board got involved and asked for the public's help in determining the source of the calls, which apparently blocked caller ID from showing the number. You can listen to the call here (wav).

by Bob Johnson 2008-04-30 11:15AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Not at all

There is a world of difference between "calls went out to (many neighborhoods, including some that were) black neighborhoods", and "targetting black people with intent to disenfranchise them".

World of difference.

According to your primary source, the calling lists were "wildly inaccurate".

How do you reconcile this (accurate) discription with the notion that they were some sort of precision-guided munition?

And why on earth would such a highly targetted scheme call Farmer, who is not only caucasion but a Chair of the NC DNC?

You were looking for some mud and decided to call Hillary a racist.  Deplorable.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 11:29AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
You are lying.

Which is typical.

You were looking for some mud and decided to call Hillary a racist.  

by Bob Johnson 2008-04-30 11:32AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
I am not known for that

I think there are a number of Obama supporters on this site that know me enough by now to know that I don't lie.  What you did crossed a line and you needed to be called out.  If your defense is an ad hominem attack, people can take that for what it's worth.

I know you are capable of better and I believe you let your feelings or bias get the better of you.  Whatever else we know about Hillary Clinton, we can be sure of this - her public life, well before her time in the White House, has been animated by a few common themes.  Boosting turnout and fighting any measures that impede participation is one of them.

It is absolutely absurd for you to suggest that she would engage in an effort to disenfranchise Blacks, or that she would tolerate any such effort being associated with her campaign on any level.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 11:44AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: I am not known for that

Actually, this comment from you was absolutely dishonest.  You never corrected it when I called you on it either.

by map 2008-04-30 11:59AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: I am not known for that

First of all, I did not read your response.  Sometimes responses to comments I have made slip through the cracks because I make a lot of comments.

Secondly, what you did there was pretty lame.  I'm attributing positions to Barack Obama supporters and you pretend it's dishonest because those aren't direct quotes from Obama?  Where did I say that?  In context I was clearly pointing out the hypocrisy of Obama supporters, and in fact I echoed that same rationale more clearly in in this comment.

Rather than go further into that topic I will just let this correction (of your mis-impression) end here.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 12:40PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: I am not known for that

Your wordier clarification is equally dishonest.  You totally mischaracteriz what Obama supporters have been saying, and what Obama himself said and did. You are right though that this isn't the place and best to let it end.

by map 2008-04-30 01:32PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
You lie. Again.

Nowhere do I claim that Clinton did this or even knew about it. You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. I noted in the headline that those involved were "Clinton backers" as the cited story proved.

Why do you insist on claiming that I wrote that Hillary was involved?

by Bob Johnson 2008-04-30 12:04PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: You lie. Again.

The cited story did not "prove" that the organization in question supports Clinton, has endorsed Clinton, or, more crucial to your baseless allegation, that it is directed by the Clinton campaign in any way, shape or form.

What it established was that there were some people in this organization that were former Clinton staffers.  Just like there are lots of former Clinton staffers on Barack's campaign.  So that is not conclusive.

It also mentions that one of the members of this organization has contributed to Hillary, and another member has contributed to both candidates.

Again, not conclusive.

Somehow, in your brain, an unclear association and wildly inaccurate calling lists because an evil plot to suppress the Black vote executed by Clinton backers, the clear implication being that Clinton's campaign is somehow encouraging or even directing this.

So drop the passive-aggressive routine.  It might suffice for your cheerleaders but I'm not buying it.  You have really sunk to a new low today, and now apparently it is just a question of how low you will go.  Insulting me perosnally doesn't make your allegations any less baseless.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 12:45PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Oh, now you back up.

Now, it's a "clear implication." Prior to this post, you suggested that I wrote that the Clinton campaign was responsible.

Get your story straight. Like I said, you're a liar. And a sad human being.

by Bob Johnson 2008-04-30 12:54PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
You best defense..

..seems to be personal insults.  Others should take note in assessing your veracity.

I was wrong about you, Bob Johnson.  Your intentions have been made clear.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 12:59PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Right.

You intentionally distort what I wrote then play the victim.

Pathetic. And not the first time.

by Bob Johnson 2008-04-30 01:01PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: You lie. Again.

Of course the organization itself has not endorsed Clinton.  But check out the membership of its board. It's almost all Clinton people.

by Joe Buck 2008-04-30 01:13PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: You lie. Again.

Except for the Barack people on it.  Hmm.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 01:26PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
I'm with you bobbank

Bob Johnson is playing games with innuendo. He knows exactly what he's doing with insinuation and plausible deniability. You nailed it, it is passive aggressive.

by anna belle 2008-04-30 03:15PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Do you hold yourself to that standard? Accusing those of us who are, I believe, rightly appalled at this story -- mistake or not -- as playing "the race card" is a pretty nasty stretch.

I'll speak for myself, if David Axelrod and a bevy of Obama supporters were on board, I'd be just as outraged. A bit more confused, but just as upset.

I don't buy the confusion arguement at this time. I see nothing in their history to justify the pattern of "confusion" this group has sowed. There's little to explain "Lamont Wilson"s robocall.

That's not the race card. That's race in a news story. You might want to skip the scolding tone.

by Lettuce 2008-04-30 11:17AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

To answer your question without getting down in the mud: yes, I do.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 11:30AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Actually, a bevy of Obama supporters ARE in the leadership of this group.

by dhonig 2008-04-30 11:39AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

I got "the warning" too. Signed so I could get back to posting> Last thing we need is ANOTHER echo chamber.

by jaiwithani 2008-04-30 11:13AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

So the title "UPDATE 2 - Clinton backers behind deceptive robo-calls aimed at blacks"

the error is with the "aimed". A question mark or the word "potentially" would have made the difference, I guess.

But given the content, the fact that Clinton backers are behind deceptive (they don't attribute themselves to the call) robocalls that news reports say are affecting blacks -- (something the use of "Lamont Williams" would indicate) it's a real stretch to call you racist.

I think an email saying: "Avoid potential libel" in your title might be nice instead. After all, calling it "racist" is also libelous, since you'd be hard pressed to, with a straight face, call that title "racist."

by Lettuce 2008-04-30 11:13AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
It was an inflammatory headline

For a diary based on very little evidence with a lot of "guilt by association" innuendos.

Typical of Obama supporters.

The intention of the headline was clear to suggest that somehow there was an effort involved in suppressing AA votes.

Nonsense! The calls took place after the primary registration deadline and would have had no impact on anyone's registration or voting.

It seems to be due to incompetance on the part of the people in charge than any conspiracy.

Bob Johnson of course cannot give anyone the benefit of the doubt because he and his friends so desparately want to gin up any controversy and change the subject from JWright.

If you guys hadn't played this game before, we might give you the benefit of the doubt and take your outrage seriously.

Given your history, we know what it is. Feigned outrage!

Stop engaging in character assasination against fellow Democrats!

by BigB 2008-04-30 11:16AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: It was an inflammatory headline

Given your history, we know what it is. Feigned outrage!

Stop engaging in character assasination against fellow Democrats!

please as if HRC and her supporters werent doing the exact same thing over Obama's 'bitter' remarks. I can't count how many diaries there were about that.

by aaaa05 2008-04-30 11:19AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Big difference

One was a remark (bitter) made by a candidate which was condescending toward working class voters. Diaries on that are fair game. The diaries certainly did not have racial connotations.

This diary refers to a set of incompetant robo-calls made by a long-time liberal organization which is not directly associated with the Clintons. It somehow tries to turn this into voter suppressio tactics aimed at AA.

In any organization on the left, you will find people who have donated to other Democrats.

This is more than six-degrees of separation.

Overall, an extremely irresponsible diary that will only serve to widen the current divisions in the Democratic party.

If you Obama supporters continue in this vein, it is going to be very hard if not impossible to unite this party.

by BigB 2008-04-30 11:37AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Big difference

I commented on the "feigned outrage" and "character assassination" part of his comment. HRC and her supporters did the exact same thing. Obama's bitter comments, though worded poorly, were not that big of a deal. Instead HRC and her supporters took the thrust of his point out of context and "feigned outrage" saying it was a fatal gaffe and such a despicable thing to say and proceeded to call Obama an elitist, aloof and out of touch with Americans (character assassination) when he is clearly not. That is what I am alleging was exactly the same.  

by aaaa05 2008-04-30 11:56AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Big difference

If the calls are "incompetent", then WVWV will be able to produce a man named Lamont Williams.  If there is no Lamont Williams, then the calls were malevolent, since the caller would then have given a false name.

If the calls are "incompetent", why is this the 11th state that they've been incompetent in the same way?

And why would an organization headed up by Clinton pollster Joe Goode, with Clintonite John Podesta on its board, with Maggie Williams on its board until recently, be so incompetent?

It's a Clintonite organization, even though it is formally independent.

by Joe Buck 2008-04-30 01:18PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Democracy North Carolina, a government watchdog, cried foul, saying that the calls went out to "black neighborhoods" and was evidently a vote suppression tactic since the registration deadline for the presidential primary has already passed.
 

this makes no sense. if it's too late then the phone call makes no difference either way, correct? in other words, if they hadn't been robo-called it wouldnt be too late?

by doberman pinche 2008-04-30 11:19AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
You miss the point

Telling people who are registered to vote that they need to take steps to get registered to vote is a deceptive practice which dissuades them from voting.

by Adam B 2008-04-30 11:25AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
oh that's rich

gimmie a break already. if that's the case why would the voter registration deadline matter?

hilarious!

by doberman pinche 2008-04-30 11:27AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: oh that's rich

Because they'd be told was too late for them to do anything about it, even if it were true.

At best, this is horribly sloppy work.  At worst ...

by Adam B 2008-04-30 11:30AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: oh that's rich

this looks like sloppy work AND sloppy complaining.

by doberman pinche 2008-04-30 11:34AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: oh that's rich

Everybody is gonna feel like an idiot when it comes out this is all because some intern didn't know how to operate a calendar correctly...

by pinche tejano 2008-04-30 11:36AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: oh that's rich

In, what, ten different states?  That's what I don't get -- after states like Wisconsin complain about voters getting confused, they still did it?

by Adam B 2008-04-30 11:39AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: oh that's rich

There is a fine line between negligence and incompetency, you should know that in your line of work. I think it kept going because there was no attnetion being paid to it, and now there is so it looks a lot worse than had the attention been in the first state.

My 2 cents: This looks like sloppy work from a 2-bit organization with 2-bit operators who are wilting under the current media blazing gaze.

Never under-estimate the stupidity of others, especially when they are holding occam's razor.

by pinche tejano 2008-04-30 11:50AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: oh that's rich

Their conduct in Virginia attracted the attention of the police, evidently, who suspected an identity theft scam.

And they were only tracked down in North Carolina because the state elections board asked for the public's help in determining the source of the calls, which blocked caller ID from showing the number (which is a violation of state law).

by Joe Buck 2008-04-30 01:22PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

This is how it worked.  From the articles I've read, most of those who received calls were already registered to vote.  The calls told them they should fill out and return a packet coming in the mail if they wished to vote in the upcoming election.  The implication being, you are not registered to vote unless you send in the packet.  Ergo, registered voters were led to believe they were not actually registered.  That's why its potentially disenfranchising.  No, it wouldn't have actually barred anyone from voting... but if they don't show up at the polls it's the same net effect.

by belicheat 2008-04-30 11:29AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Blog roundup

It's not just TPM, it's

Daily Kos front-page...

Atrios...

AmericaBlog...

...and more to come, but those are the biggies.

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 11:23AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Blog roundup

You missed the media hits, like Politico.com. Yes, we are aware the Obama camp is engaged in a full court press to accuse Hillary Clinton of African American voter suppression prior to North Carolina. It's SOP.

Those of us who have been involved with Democratic politics for a few cycles, and are familiar with how voter registration work is done, are horrified that Obama people would take this tack.

by souvarine 2008-04-30 11:32AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Heh.

Please, in the rush to attack Obama, save some concern for the actual voter suppression.

I shudder to imagine what the reaction would have been had, say, David Plouffe sat on the board of an organization that got caught trying to suppress the turnout of, say, elderly women in Pensylvania.

We've been lambasted for weeks now with William Ayers, based on the fact that he and Obama sat on a board together. There have been literally dozens of hyper-ventilating diaries about how this close association between Obama and Ayers is The Most Important Thing Ever.

Now, Maggie Williams, Clinton's former chief of staff and present campaign manager, sits on a board of an organization that has admitted to and apologized for voter suppression, which may very well involve a felony offense, in a pattern spread across eleven states, and again, the real bad guy is Obama.

Because no matter what, Barack Obama is always the bad guy.

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 11:46AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Heh.

Voter suppression? LOL - I read the story. I didn't any evidence of voter suppression and neither did you.

Go ahead - show us one example of the vote being suppressed because of this premier progressive organization. Not an open ended accusation, but an actual instance.

by Little Otter 2008-04-30 12:00PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Silly.

The ballots haven't been cast yet. You can't say it's not voter suppression just because the election hasn't happened yet. It's a little late to try to suppress voters after election day, no?

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 12:09PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Silly.

Ahhh, so voter is suppression is a bogus charge. Thank you. this is just one more example of the Obama campaign willing to burn progressive organizations just to have a better shot at winning the primary - the general election be damned.

After this smear by the Obama camp, why should this organization support voter reg drives if he's the candidate? Did the geniuses supporting obama ever think of that?

He must have some really bad polling numbers out of North Caroline to be this desperate. This is one of the most pathetic, anti-Democratic campaign moves I've ever seen from a Democrat.

by Little Otter 2008-04-30 12:14PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Snort.

Awesome, so we're now at the point where we have Democrats arguing that voter suppression doesn't exist. Just like republicans when they get caught doing it.

this is just one more example of the Obama campaign willing to burn progressive organizations just to have a better shot at winning the primary

Like when Hillary Clinton trashed the organization where Obama and Ayers sat on a board together. Gotcha. Or when Clintonists trashed the DNC for raising money with Obama.

the general election be damned.

You mean like when you folks couldn't stop talking about how Obama's out of touch with poor whites?

You're not fooling anyone, buddy.

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 01:00PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Heh.

I'm guessing you don't have a problem with Republican caging operations either.

by map 2008-04-30 12:13PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Heh.

I'm sure you think you have a point here. Go ahead - explain how the action taken here, by a well-known and well-respected progressive organization which raises money to register voters to vote Democratic, is similar to Republican caging operations.

Explain how someone would lose their ability to vote because of what transpired here.

by Little Otter 2008-04-30 12:16PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
As Adam B says above

if you call registered voters and tell them they need to be registered via a mail package yet to be sent to them, otherwise they can't vote, what do you think the effect is going to be?

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 12:24PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: As Adam B says above

I would assume people would go to the polls and vote. Do you have any evidence that anyone has ever not voted because of the work Women's Voices, Women's Votes has done?

They are a fine organization that has been around since before 2004. I can't believe you jokers are smearing them like this just because Obama's poll numbers are falling in North Carolina. Should he be the nominee, this is an organization who is going to be working on his behalf.

What an ugly, nasty campaign Obama is running. I'm just staggered by this.

by Little Otter 2008-04-30 01:22PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
If this is such a well-respected organization...

... why did they fail to identify themselves at the beginning of the robo-call -- or ANYWHERE during the robocall --- as respectable organizations do?

The only identification given -- "Lamont Williams" --  is a lie.

by tbetz 2008-04-30 01:06PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Maggie Williams is a former board member ...

... but she isn't on the current board.  Clinton ally John Podesta is, though, and former Clinton pollster Joe Goode is the executive director.

by Joe Buck 2008-04-30 01:25PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Blog roundup

Heh, yea, the Obama camp sent out marching orders to DKos, Americablog, Politico, etc., to do this.

You know what?  Talking about racist voter suppression IS IMPORTANT when it happens!  

I like how your horror is reserved for the campaign that ISN'T the one intended to benefit from undemocratic, likely illegal tactics.  Hilarity

by Slim Tyranny 2008-04-30 12:08PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Blog roundup

this is getting funnier and funnier.

by doberman pinche 2008-04-30 12:24PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Blog roundup

MBNYC is another one of the Obama shills who spends most of his days attempting to smear or denigrate Clinton. There isn't a scintilla of evidence that this has anything to do with Clinton but MBNYC is not going to let that get in the way of his latest smear which is probably largely intended to draw attention away from the Wright matter.  

by ottovbvs 2008-04-30 11:34AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Blog roundup

Sorry, where in MBNYC's comment does he mention Hillary?

Seems you are jumping the gun and practicing a deflecting talking point already...

by pinche tejano 2008-04-30 11:38AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Her campaign manager

sits on WVWV's board. It's pretty blatant, at least by the standards used in the Hillosphere to determine guilt or innocence.

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 11:47AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Her campaign manager

Wait, who is it now? Maggie Williams? Hillary has burned through a lot of deputy and chiefs this cycle.

by pinche tejano 2008-04-30 11:59AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Her campaign manager

Yup, it's Maggie. Plus John Podesta, who's also on the board, and some other links.

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 12:11PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Her campaign manager

Wait a minute, are you telling me, Maggie Williams, who an African-American woman, is actively trying to disenfranchise African-American votes?

Dude, Occam's Razor, there's an idiot intern involved here. Or someone's crony niece or nephew.

by pinche tejano 2008-04-30 12:25PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
maybe not ...

... as she's no longer on the board.  But people at the top of campaigns sometimes lose perspective and try to win at any cost.

by Joe Buck 2008-04-30 01:27PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

I'll tell you one thing. If by some off the wall chance Hillary is the nominee, we will not see alot of AA's at the polls on November 5.

Hill and her supporters have ruined her chances with a key constituency, imho.

by april34fff 2008-04-30 11:23AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

This is what I call the ethnic blackmail ploy. Clyburns pointed the way on this. Essentially it's the if you don't let me be the nominee I'm taking my ball home approach. Childish and deeply counter productive.

by ottovbvs 2008-04-30 11:31AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Funny, I call it the truth.

by pinche tejano 2008-04-30 11:39AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

We'll see record turn out from African Americans if clinton is the nominee, because she has a long history of service to that community as does her husband. She's earned their vote in her lifetime, and if she's the nominee, she'll get it.

by Little Otter 2008-04-30 12:18PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
What does that even mean?

She's earned their vote in her lifetime

It's this kind of arrogance - vote for me because I deserve it - that's been Clinton's undoing in this entire campaign. If she goes into the general with that attitude, hello, President McCain.

Hillary Clinton is owed respect as a U.S. Senator. She is not owed the Presidency. And she is not owed a single vote from the black community or anyone else. Votes are something you work for, not something you deserve.

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 12:22PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: black community vote

I bet Maggie Williams votes for her.

by doberman pinche 2008-04-30 12:28PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: What does that even mean?

Try not to be too stupid. If you earned something, then you don't think you're entitled to it. Entitlement comes when you haven't earned something. Sorta Like Obama being reduced to smearing a fine progressive organization because he has nothing of substance to offer.

The Sad Campaign.

by Little Otter 2008-04-30 01:36PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Try not to be

too stupid yourself. Hillary has earned nothing. Certainly not while she's busy knee-capping the first African-American with a real shot at the White House.

There's a reason polls show her getting only 50+% of the black vote as nominee. Maybe those folks aren't aware of the gratitude you insist she be shown. If she somehow pulls this off, I'd be surprised if she gets 30% of the black vote; and the youth vote could be as bad or worse.

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 02:19PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Typical Clintonist

ratings bullshit. Dude tells me to try not to be twoo stupid, gets a 2; I return the favor, and get hit with a trollrating by anna belle.

Others have rated this comment as follows:
anna belle     1

Do you people even try anymore?

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 03:50PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Try not to be

I don't think that African Americans are as stupid as you obviously think they are. Maybe you should stop pretending that they take everything you say at face value and vote on what their told. They know what they experienced in the 90s - their highest employment rate ever and their highest wages ever. They also experienced the lowest crime rate in their neighborhoods as well. And Hillary, in Arkansas, was on the ground getting funding for healthcare faciliites to serve rural Arkansas, improving teaching standards, and helping parents who didn't have access to Head Start to homeschool their toddler.

She has a resume to offer as a reason to vote for her. What's Obama? Oh yeah, he was a community organizer and now he has a website.

by Little Otter 2008-04-30 04:07PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Childish and deeply counter-productive. In 1980 the middle class white guy took his ball and went home. Many dems have been chasing after him ever since, as if we're not a legitimate party unless we get the "real" votes of white guys. This "ethnic blackmail ploy" you write of has existed for a long time, it's just normally run by white folks.

by Mobar 2008-04-30 12:22PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Another inane posting

Another guilty until proven innocent posting by an Obama supporter.

Keep it up, you guys will succeed in breaking this party along racial lines.

by BigB 2008-04-30 11:40AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Because...

...we've spent the last few weeks painting Clinton as an out-of-touch elitist who doesn't understand economically struggling whites?

Yeah, sorry about that.

by MBNYC 2008-04-30 12:19PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Bob I don't think your diary should have been pulled. In fact I don't agree with the concept of troll rating or any other similar nonsense. I think your whole story which is essentially aimed at smearing Clinton is malicious but then people should have the right to be malicious if they want to. So go ahead carry on throwing the mud and those that want to believe it will be happy and those that don't can ignore it. Sound reasonable.  

by ottovbvs 2008-04-30 11:29AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

This is what I found upon digging in the story..


The group's spokeswoman Sarah Johnson confirmed to me that those were the group's calls and said that they were part of an effort to register three million women voters in 24 states.


The group had also let the state board of elections know prior to sending out the mailings that they would be doing so, but the letter to the board did not mention the calls. You can read that letter, provided by the group, here.

-- Empahsis mine.

A statement from the group and their Exec Dir. is at TPM.

The only person I could find that was associated with WVWV is John Podesta -- in the Clinton Admin as CoS and founder of the Center for American Progress.

by TxDem08 2008-04-30 11:43AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
We are talking about calls, not mailings

... though their mailings were deceptive as well, telling people that they were required to send the voter registration forms back to WVWV.

The North Carolina board of elections asked for the public's help in tracing the source of the calls, since the caller violated NC state law by blocking caller ID on a robocall.

by Joe Buck 2008-04-30 01:31PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Bob, I'm no fan of censorship, but I'm not a fan of that diary, either.  Your title (and content) was clearly intended to suggest that Hillary Clinton and/or her campaign are engaged in trying to suppress the black vote in NC, and every knows it.  Not only that, many Obama supporters came out and said so in the comments.

You've provided no evidence of this at all (and neither did the article, merely some innuendo), but why let that stop you from making the accusation and then playing the martyr when you get called on it?

I don't know what happened here - there just aren't enough facts yet to know.  If it turns out there is real evidence that someone in the Clinton campaign was involved in this, then they need to go away. But we're miles away from that evidence at this point, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

by Denny Crane 2008-04-30 11:56AM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
The last equivocation

Bob, I'm no fan of censorship, but I'm not a fan of that diary, either.

That's the point, that's the hard test of freedom of speech, to defend expressions you don't agree with.

The classic case is Satanic Verses. Too many people in the UK parsed and said 'he shouldn't have written it'. But how do we know what we disagree with until we hear it?

I'm an Obama supporter, and I hear things on MYDD which I disagree with everyday. But I've been a member for four years. Should I stop coming? Should I be banned?

No. I keep coming here to hear things which I disagree with, and maybe they change my mind, and maybe they don't.

But there was not one jot of accusation of racism against the Hillary campaign, either in the diary or the comments. Merely an allegation of vote fixing by an organisation run by avowed Hillary supporters.

You start suppressing what you don't want to hear, and Bush like incompetence beckons, and tyranny is not far away.

by brit 2008-04-30 12:03PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Post this on Daily Kos...

this site if for Hillary Clinton.  It is obvious.  Even at Daily Kos, the Hillary diaries did not get yanked.

This site is a fucking joke.

by tracey webb 2008-04-30 12:06PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

bob you need to add


But since last November, in at least 11 states nationwide, Women's Voices -- sometimes working through its Voter Participation Center project -- has developed a checkered reputation, drawing rebukes from leading election officials and complaints from thousands of would-be voters as a result of their secretive tactics, deceptive mailings and calls, and penchant for skirting or violating the law.

people need to understand 11 times? 11 accidental screw ups in 11 states? and by time 11 they never said lets be real careful here and make sure we understand all the laws?

please!!

by TruthMatters 2008-04-30 12:07PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

And just who is this "Lamont Williams"?

by NewOaklandDem 2008-04-30 12:09PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Thats a great question, I googled and didn't find much.

I guess we have to wait for http://www.wvwv.org/ to respond.

by GeorgeP922 2008-04-30 01:07PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Mike Lux comments

Mike Lux of OpenLeft, an Obama supporter who is on the WVWV board, responds:

I called Page Gardner and have had a quick conversation with her as well as seen the statement that she released.  I am completely confident that this was an accident. As far as I can tell, I think it was more a consequence of trying to move on 24 states in a short amount of time, and having nothing to do with the upcoming primary.

by souvarine 2008-04-30 12:24PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Mike Lux comments

that's very interesting. i hope the diarist adds this information to the body of his diary in the form of an UPDATE.

by doberman pinche 2008-04-30 12:39PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
All the facts are not in

It is not yet known who was targeted. If it was a legit outreach campaign the target would have been single unregistered women. Maybe the lists they rented or purchased were not that accurate (which is not so uncommon) or maybe they were really targeting black voters. No one knows that yet so no assumptions should be made.

The fact that they broke the law in NC by hiding their identity, have received multiple complaints from multiple states and used the male voice of "Lamont Williams" would suggest that there should be a torough investigation.

In the mean time we should insist on an investigation and a better explanation and leave the accusations until it is complete. I think the original title was needlessly provocative for what we know now.

by hankg 2008-04-30 12:50PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Ardent Obama supporter on the board

From ben Smith at POLITICO:

"There are some arguing that this was a pro-Clinton conspiracy, rather than a disruptive mistake, as the group claims; those suggestions are based in part on the fact that Maggie Williams used to be on the group's board, and that it's staffed with other former Clinton types.

This seems, so far, unconvincing to me. Also on the board, for instance, is William McNary, the president of the progressive coalition USAction and a leader of Illinois Citizen Action who has been, reportedly, a vigorous Obama supporters since his 2004 Senate race. "

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 408/Obama_camp_responds_to_robocalls.htm l

Shall we now accuse the Obama campaign of conspiracy?

Shall we?

by BigB 2008-04-30 12:50PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Ardent Obama supporter on the board

No, how about we focus on prosecuting this group first.

I could care less who they work for, this is a really dark stain on Democrats.

This is something GOP 527's do, not us!

by GeorgeP922 2008-04-30 01:03PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
boards of directors are often out of the loop

The presence of some Obama supporters on the board wouldn't prevent malfeasance.  I still want to know:

Who "Lamont Williams" is.

Who actually made the decision to do the calls.

Why caller ID was illegally blocked.

by Joe Buck 2008-04-30 01:35PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Truth can be found

here

Let's get the smear-campaign off the Rec list.  We're better than this.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 01:00PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Truth can be found

Bob, forget about Hillary and Obama for a second.

If this group is guilty of the accusations, how do you think they should be punished?

by GeorgeP922 2008-04-30 01:04PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Truth can be found

I answer that question in my diary. :)

by bobbank 2008-04-30 01:05PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Truth can be found

That you did, and for me right now until more hard facts come out, is all I care about.

Conspiracies aside, the legal implications far outweigh the political ones for now, that I mean we should get to the bottom of the actions, then if those actions were intentional we should investigate motives.

What saddens me in the knee jerk, is people assuming any possible scandal exposed is an attack on Hillary herself.

And all that aside, I hope and prey this group is innocent.

I truelly do, beause when I rembember the push polling that Bush did to McCain, where they called people in SC and asked if McCain having a black child out of wedlock would effect their vote; That one event solidified me even further into what Republicans are and what Democrats aren't.

I would hate to see we crossed that line.

by GeorgeP922 2008-04-30 01:14PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Truth can be found

I have been active with the election integrity movement since long before I came here.  Any organization that is deliberately attempting to disenfranchise voters (even if it were targetting Republicans) is my enemy.

Let me make that very clear.

But for Bob Johnson to use this as an excuse to launch a baseless smear-campaign, and accuse Hillary and her backers of trying to disenfranchise Blacks, when there is absolutely zero evidence of that, is outrageous, and a great example of what we don't need more of.

He has crossed a line today and I will not forget it - he showed us all that he was willing to throw all honesty or integrity out the door, just in the name of stirring up drama - drama which distracts us from the more important task of finding out if this organization did anything wrong and, if so, preventing them from doing so again.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 01:20PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Truth can be ignored by Hillary Loyalists

A group responsible for misleading automated phone messages to North Carolina voters has drawn the attention and ire of state officials in at least seven other states.



Hey, it's ONLY 7 states out of 50...that means there are 43 states were WVWV did NOT get into trouble with the law. So there!
by edmandspath 2008-04-30 01:44PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
WVWV Directors/Leadership Team

1. John Podesta -- Chief of Staff to Bill Clinton 98-01.

2. Mimi Mager -- Member Clinton-Gore Transition team.

3. Michael Lux -- Member of the Board of the Clinton Gore Alumni Association (ClintonGoreAlumni.org (CGA) is member-driven organization that seeks to maintain an ongoing network among those former political appointees of the Clinton-Gore Administration, the national '92 and '96 campaigns and Democratic Party activists around the country.)

4. Joe Goode -- the Senior Analyst on company CEO Stan Greenberg's work for the Clinton for President campaign in 1992.

by edmandspath 2008-04-30 01:05PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: WVWV Directors/Leadership Team

ohhh, Gore must be behind this!!

/snark

come on, how many people in the Obama camp used to work for the Clinton's?  seriously?

by colebiancardi 2008-04-30 01:09PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Bob, don't you know...

that telling, teaching, or exposing any sort of marginalization against blacks, or for that matter most minority groups (like Native Americans) is inflammatory and uncalled for?  Just sit back, pour yourself a nice glass of kool-aid, and let the "liberals" take care of it.  Hillary, you go girl!

by froggyman 2008-04-30 01:14PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Bob, don't you know...

that telling, teaching, or exposing any sort of marginalization against blacks, or for that matter most minority groups (like Native Americans) is inflammatory and uncalled for?  Just sit back, pour yourself a nice glass of kool-aid, and let the "liberals" take care of it.  Hillary, you go girl!

by froggyman 2008-04-30 01:14PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Stop the lies, Bob

When do you plan to update both of your smear-diaries, and let folks know that a prominent Barack Obama supporter serves on the Board of this organization?

by bobbank 2008-04-30 01:17PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
ABC is on it
Suspicious Phone Messages Target Black Voters in North Carolina

Keeping your Eye on the Prize is OK, but stepping on other peoples heads to grab the brass ring isn't.
by edmandspath 2008-04-30 01:26PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: ABC is on it

So apparently they are targetting registration for the general election, not the primary.

Willing to be honest yet?

by bobbank 2008-04-30 01:47PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
They must be stoopid then

The general election is in November.  There is a primary in NC next Tuesday.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-04-30 01:59PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: They must be stoopid then

I have added a third update to my diary:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/30/1738 33/810

With a link to an excellent diary that explains this in further detail.  Apparently Bob Johnson was even more dishonest about this than we thought.  It not only has nothing to do with racism, or Hillary Clinton, but it also has nothing to do with the Democratic primary.

This diary has been completely discreditted and anyone that gives a damn about honesty should not be recommending it.  Bob Johnson has permanently blemished his reputation this day.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 02:08PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: They must be stoopid then

This group is incompetent at best.  Their procedures are illegal and they confuse rather that clarify voting procedures.  It is hard to believe a group whose main goal is registering voters is so bad at it.  

Regardless of who is on the board this group deserves to get a public ass kicking.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-04-30 02:23PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: They must be stoopid then

Well they may or may not.  Information is continuing to come out - including a very plausible explanation for their timing.

But realize that Bob Johnson did not care about any of that (if he did, he would update his fiction with some fact).  He saw some bait and bit in big - somehow he got to accusing Hillary and her "backers" of being racists and attempting to disenfranchise Blacks - NONE of which has been substantiated by facts.

So, we can have a conversation about this group and what they do and why they do it.  But that isn't what the army of inactive accounts was used for today.  It was used to prop up a discreditted smear campaign.

We will have to look at anything Bob Johnson writes in this light, moving forward.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 02:39PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: They must be stoopid then

I don't think their explanation was plausible.  This was either a case of gross incompetence or willfully malicious behavior. Either explanation is unacceptable to me and, I hope, all Democrats.  

I like Bob Johnson's diaries and comments and I will continue to read them.

by Blue Neponset 2008-04-30 02:59PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: They must be stoopid then

But as I said before, that is not the area of disagreement.

Bob Johnson lied in an effort to launch a smear campaign.  He suggested this story was about racism and said that it was proven that the Clintons were behind it - all as part of some evil scheme to win the NC primary.

Meanwhile, there are Barack supporters sitting on the Board, and what they're doing has ZERO IMPACT on the primaries because they are getting people to register for the general election.

You are of course free to read whatever you like.  But Bob Johnson exemplified the worst in all of us today with this bullshit.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 03:23PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Update your diary, please.

There is an Obama supporter involved as well.

by colebiancardi 2008-04-30 01:26PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Honest and level-headed supporters of Barack Obama should withdraw their recommendation from this diary until Bob Johnson drops the smear campaign and updates his diary to reflect the truth.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 01:27PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Honest Hillary Supporters Should Read Up

Whatever the intent, the practical effect is to confuse people," said Bob Hall of Democracy North Carolina, a nonpartisan election watchdog group. "This is a terrible time for it be happening." Hall is concerned that the calls may discourage voters from voting during the current early voting period, where they can register and vote on the same day. A spokesperson for Women's Voices Women Vote did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

by edmandspath 2008-04-30 01:34PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
You should open your mind

No one has argued that point.

You understand the organization is partially under the directorship of Barack Obama supporters, right?

What I'm saying is that you can attack this organization and get to the bottom of things, the TRUTH, and that's good.  But to pretend that Hillary is controlling it and that she's trying to attack Blacks is completely wrongheaded and fundamentally dishonest.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 01:38PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story
The only reason I rec'd it was because it was taken off the rec list.
But I did unrec it once it returned.
by Drewid 2008-04-30 01:58PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Kudos to you then for chosing honesty.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 02:09PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Damage Control on the USS Clinton!!!

But Captain, I'm givin' her all I've got!

More dilithium crystals, quick - we are losing MOMENTUM, captain - we'll never make it to NC with this Klingon Robocall Scandal on our back!!!

by edmandspath 2008-04-30 01:30PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Damage Control on the USS Clinton!!!

hmm, what about the USS Obama?  did you bother to look at the new "breaking" news?

by colebiancardi 2008-04-30 01:38PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

It is hard to believe any Democrat is defending or engaging in this of behavior.  I thought sleazy voter suppression tactics were the Republican's stock and trade.  I guess I was wrong.  I hope these people are pilloried for doing this.  They deserve it.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-04-30 01:48PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Are you referring to the people promoting a smear-campaign using lies that have been publicly discredited, inflammatory racial remarks, and an army of inactive accounts to wage a war on free thought?

If so, I agree.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 01:55PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Nope

I am referring the people who decided this robocall thing was a good idea.  It is disgraceful.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-04-30 01:57PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: Nope

Totally agree what could be more disgraceful than signing up new voters.  My guess is the republicans are behind this.  

And is is really disgraceful that a big time BO supporters is on the broad of the group.  Will BO distance himself from this person???

david

by giusd 2008-04-30 02:20PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Get a grip dude

This is a blog not the Capitol Building.  Feel free not to read the disgraceful big time BO supporter if you don't want.  

What a bunch of babies.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-04-30 02:36PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Wow, you look like an ass.  This has already been disproved.  

by JustJennifer 2008-04-30 01:53PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

He looks ok from where I'm standing.  People who declare things unproved without supplying links to the unproof are much worse in my book.

by Blue Neponset 2008-04-30 01:56PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/30/1738 33/810

by JustJennifer 2008-04-30 01:58PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/30/1432 53/213

by bobbank 2008-04-30 02:10PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

Wow dude you just got slammed here.  Are you ok.  Can i give you a hand off the floor. That eye looks like it is going to really get red.  You should put some ice on it.

david

by giusd 2008-04-30 02:22PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

So I guess we can all agree that this group was trying to sign up new women voters to help dems in the fall.  And i assume BO supporters are against that.  OK that is cool. And we can assume they were targeting women

But the thing i dont get is Bob Johnson's first thread was that deceptive robo-calls were targeting blacks.  Can someone provide proof of that.  You see the thing is BO supporters have a long history of playing up so called racially insensitive comments about the Clinton's and then going around calling them racist.  So why the "targeting blacks".  Does anyone have any proof of this or is this just another race smear against the clintons.

david

by giusd 2008-04-30 02:18PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

No, they were actually trying to register AA voters. To wit (from the link above):

WVWV doesn't just target unmarried women. they target hispanics and african americans. so it's not surprising at all that they are targeting black voters in n.c. they've done this in partnership with organizations like the NAACP in 2004 and National Council of La Raza more recently. they use their methods and infrastructure from the unmarried women work to get minorities on the roll. for instance, field groups and funders will pay them to do mail-based voter reg on african americans who don't live in the urban core where they can be cost efficiently registered via door knocking and mass site registration (at bus stops for example). so where minority voters may be more geographically dispersed, WVWV is employed to do that registration by mail order.

2) there is always a spike in voter registration around primaries AFTER the registration deadline has passed. this is the best time to register voters. research confirms this.  around primaries people are reminded that they need to register in time for the general. WVWV has done a lot of research in this area. they know when people are most likely to register. unfortunately, what makes sense in registering the largest aggregate number of voters for the general election at the lowest cost is having a confusing effect in the N.C. primary which is hotly contested and very charged.

by anna belle 2008-04-30 02:44PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
I think this diary should be taken down too

Though I have no authority to do so. The bullshit race baiting and blaming the Clinton's for it has got to stop. Matt Stoller has explained what happened, and it makes perfect sense. It is not a conspiracy. http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?dia ryId=5489

h/t Alice Marshall for the link upthread.

by anna belle 2008-04-30 02:33PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: I think this diary should be taken down too

I agree.

I am calling on honest Obama supporters to Unrecommend promptly.

I am also asking the administrators to look into the legion of inactive accounts that were used to prop up this smear campaign and force it onto the Rec list.

by bobbank 2008-04-30 02:42PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: I think this diary should be taken down too

I'll second that complaint if you'll tell me how. I've never reported anyone before, but this definitely crosses the line. The only reason Bob is pushing this is because he can't accept that Obama is now losing on the merits. Some Obama supporters will do anything to get him the nomination.

by anna belle 2008-04-30 02:53PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: I think this diary should be taken down too

I don't know how to bring moderator attention to it.  And I don't know what's worse - pushing a story that you know is false, or using an army of inactive accounts to artificially prop it up.

Is the latter a violation of terms on myDD?

by bobbank 2008-04-30 03:03PM | 0 recs
Shadow_head_small
Re: TPM on deceptive robo-call story

The previous dairy smacks of race-baiting. It should be taken down by the diarist.

by LadyEagle 2008-04-30 02:49PM | 0 recs

Diaries

Advertise Blogads


----------- myDD - skin -----------