I hope you're not that confused about the invalid contest in MI that you're comparing it to FL in 2000. Are you?

Oh for God's sake.

I thought about posting a more substantive post about taking an unbiased look at the facts of the Michigan case instead of simply accepting the side of your candidate.  I thought about asking if you have read the rules that were violated.  But I don't think either would have worked (and not just because I strongly suspect you're a GOP troll who entered in April) so I'll go with

Thanks for confirming precisely what this diary was about.

Like I said, good luck in November.

Yes, yes, things didn't turn out your way so the party is going to hell in a handbasket and ambiguous forces like "the media" and "the Party apparatus" are to blame.  Like many others, you overlook the flaws of your candidate and see only the flaws of everyone else.  

It's okay to be cynical about the process, but the machinations occurred on all sides.  It's the nature of politics that every politician has questionable associations, especially if you judge those associates by taking a ten-minute clip of them at their worst.
Expecting every candidate (yours or your opponents) to be as pure as the driven snow is always going to leave you with bitter disappointment.
It's not a perfect world or a perfect system, and it's hard to accept it when you feel the wrong decision is being made over and over.  But, ultimately, if you believe in progressive policies (and if you're here, you presumably do) there's still a clear choice between the two candidates.  Listen to the two conventions and see which one appeals to the better aspect of our natures.
The Democratic party is far from perfect but they're still striving towards the right goals.  Hopefully after a break, you'll reconsider your decision.  If not, best of luck to you.

I think you've articulated things that a lot of Hillary's supporters (and maybe supporters of other candidates) are feeling right now.

I hope that after you've recovered a little, you change your mind about leaving the party.  Stay, and be an agent for change from within.    

I'm sorry you're not happy with the process or the result.

That does not mean I agree with much of what you've said, excepting of course the need to reform the primary system.  That needs to happen.

"I am offended to the bone, to the quick by the machinations of the Democratic party apparatus & now that they have decided the ends justifies the means to me that makes them exactly like... the other guys. I appreciate the we want to win mentality but I question the criteria the power brokers used to come up with their "winning" candidate & I submit to you that we are a long way from "winning.""

You are factually incorrect on this one.  If the goal was to win at all costs, Barack Obama would not be our nominee.  Nobody, not even the often-insane Democratic Party, is sufficiently whacked out on cocaine to think that nominating a black guy with the middle name "Hussein" is the best way to win.  He's just the guy who won, and will be our standard-bearer.

You have every right to be mad.  You have every right to associate, politically or otherwise, as you choose.  I do not denigrate these things, and I am genuinely respectful of your right to choose your associations.  The Democratic Party may not be right for you.  There's no evil in that, nor is there any insult intended on my part.

For better and for worse the nomination process is done.  We have our nominee.  He's the one I've wanted, and I savor this victory, especially in light of the fact that he defeated the inevitable, the unbeatable Hillary Clinton.  And yes she was framed that way for ages.

She blew it.  Yes, there were people who said unkind, thoughtless, or demeaning things about her.  I feel about as angry at them as I imagine you do.  The difference is this:

I expect slings and arrows, insults and lies, and all around crap to be slung at our leaders.  Sadly, this is how the process works.  I am not convinced (as I simply do not agree that the empirical evidence supports the notion) that Senator Clinton was significantly mistreated as compared with how Senator Obama was.

If your view is different, I respect that.  

I'm not going to take a paternalistic tone and tell you what your self interest is, or how you should vote.  I have been known, when these diaries occur, to explain what the Republicans will do if they win, but that is no threat by me.

If you are comfortable, through action or inaction, with whatever increase in likelihood of a John McCain administration you create through your own choices, well, that's life.  I can't tell you what to do or what to believe.

But Hillary Clinton is no victim.  Whoever thought that "breaking the glass ceiling" would be easy?  Fight the power and the power will fight back, dammit!  There is always pushback in these things.  That's part of what makes winning so worthy in these matters.

For myself?  I hunger for a woman to be our president.  I just don't want it to be Hillary Clinton.  And I'm truly glad I don't have to vote for her right now.

Good luck, and godspeed.  I wish you well.

So you think the Democratic Party power brokers and machine supported Obama over Hillary and that is why she lost?

What primary campaign have you been observing?

How much of a lead did she have in superdelegates before Obama started winning state after state?

Who agreed to having a SuperTuesday which, at the time, was universally regarded as guaranteeing Hillary the nomination?

You appear to be living in an alternate universe.

"Manufacturing consent" implies that Obama supporters are dupes who support him because the media led them to Obama.

I feel your unhappiness that Clinton is not the nominee, but I also ask you to treat others with respect that they made choices because they thought through it and decided otherwise.

And, I hate to say it, but Clinton used the FL/MI situation as a political weapon, not in good faith. She had no problem with those states not counting. Other state parties made decisions based on similar threats of losing delegates. And then her campaign decided it was an issue that could help her win.

Those were not elections that pass international standards for free and fair elections. Horribly flawed elections do not yield meaningful and democratic vote counts and have to be excluded.

Politics and policy-making are about choosing among options, nearly always imperfect ones.

If you prefer McCain policies over Clinton's, then  your best choice now is to vote for him. If not, there is a candidate who shares nearly every policy position of Clinton's.

Seems to me like that lemonade is a little more bitter than you're letting on.

My advice: Grow up.

That is all.

Goodness! Someone's got the vapors. Good thing you made cold lemonade. Goes great with whine.

I'll see your "bon appetit" and raise you 'Bon Voyage'.

Really, though, I echo ReaperBot: Good luck, Godspeed...I wish you well.

(and I hope to see you again after the summer is over)

"Again, it's not about Hillary per se."

Right.

I'm totally unconvinced any of the bitter bloggers on the rec list are being honest about their motivations.  Democrats, and really anyone who gives a crap about this country, would not be deciding to re-register in a fit of pique.  Sorry, not buying it.

We're not in a perfect world. As a man, I found the sexism appalling. Hillary's day will come. I'm for her as you are BUT

It was never about her
It was never about him.

It was ALWAYS about health care, ending the war, not staring a new war in Iran, etc.

who'd rather stay in Iraq, ban the right to choose, leave us without healthcare, and let the "free market" rule our economy. Congratulations.

We in the reality-based community will rally behind our nominee, in order to prevent people like you from further destroying the country. By the way, the Clintons will be working with us.

Sorry blewmoon.  We are not trying to elect a democrat for the personal edification of people like you.  We are trying to get our party and its PLATFORM in the white house.

If you have no interest in that now, then you clearly never really did, and were in it just for the horse race, the competing cults of personality, and... I don't know, the lemonade I guess.

And if your post wasn't to get yourself some attention, or to create drama, please tell us what its purpose was.

Cheers.

You are right in the idea that it isn't all the treatment of Hillary that insulted our intelligence this campaign, it was the DNC and the peek into what is in the sausage.  Though I have belonged to the Democratic Party for 33 years and voted Democratic in every single election in that time, I never had a chance to look into the meat grinder and see the ingredients.  As it turns out, the ingredients are stomach turning and not what I had always believed.  The main ingredient this year that led to the product being spoiled is the Democratic Party's attempt to discard the people in favor of maintaining control of the structure.  I am speaking of the jackassed thing the power structure came up with when they threw the people of Florida and Michigan under the bus in favor of maintianing a hierarchy of party hacks who would decide the election instead of the people.

The next amazing thing I learned is that the Democratic parties from the states have their collective heads up their asses with the missmatch of so called elections in each state.  From observation I have decided that the people in each state aren't the important thing, it's the party structure and the power the party lords have worked up for themselves in the way they developed the individual voting process.  In some states, like in caucus states, ordinary people just plain don't really count in favor of the activists and the idealists who want to make sure their keys to the power structure are never taken away.

Lets go then to the calls for Clinton to resign coming from all the jackass big wigs who were certain that letting her go on would ruin their own chance at elections and their own stream of money in the fall.  Be damned little people, or voters as they are otherwise called, it's the politicians own self importance that is important.

Then there is the media.  I learned that when the media is on the side of a candidate preferred by the power structure, the dug in politicians who have to be able to control everything or lose their 15 mins of fame if they don't, and is allowed to say or do anything without a peep about it, even if they are attempting to destroy a anot so golden boy or girl in the process who has given their entire life to the party.

So, I hear and know exactly what you hear and know, and at least until there is some evidence that the power mongers at the time have noticed something is not right, I will be leaving a pie behind of my own.

A diary can make the Rec List with only 7 recs?

You're basically saying with this is that there's no practical difference between Barack Obama and John McCain. Right?

why? just because your candidate wasn't picked?  does that mean every edwards supporter should leave because they think their voice isn't important?  

absolute crap, especially given the miniscule difference between all of the democrat candidates.  

i'm starting to lose patience for these diaries.  i guess those unity diaries were all for not.  the new vogue is "i'm not bitter - I'm just leaving."

try to imagine a role reversal and try to think about how much you would possibly care to hear about it.

Look y'all, there will always be people who fall in love with the PEOPLE running politics more than the POLICIES.  This is why such people who used to support Hillary Clinton don't care that her opponent supports 90% of her agenda.  Rather, to honor Hillary, they will go out of their way to find a man who supports 0% of her policies and not think twice about it.  

For such people, best not to waste your time.  They are not in politics because they care about Democratic priorities.  

I'm not leaving the Party.  But I will vote in November for the Democrat I think is most qualified whether she's on the ballot or not.  And, I'm voting against John Kerry in the September Democratic Primary for the Massachusetts Senate seat.

You'll be eating a lot of it when you find yourself on the outside looking in during the Obama presidency

Good riddance.

Frankly, I don't care if the diarist is a Democrat, Independent, Republican, or member of the Independent Purple Party, as long as they work for progressive ideals and causes, and if they do that, then they are not going to do anything to elect John McCain in November.

Some here are still fighting the old battles. Don't you know that everything before yesterday is irrelevant? The only thing that matters now is putting Barack Obama into the White House. Hillary has told you this. So have others.

The "vague starry eyed wet behind the ears guy" is making your voice and mine MORE important in our democracy, by reducing the influence of big money on our political system.

Not bad for someone who isn't even president yet.

The candidate with her shit together and the pit bull's grasp on policy voted for George Bush's war. The vague starry eyed wet behind the ears guy saw this for the disaster it was. So, if memory serves, did Wes Clark.

As for "questionable associations".... Mark Penn, Terry McAuliffe, Lanny Davis, James Carville-Matalin, Peter Giustra, Ron Burkle, Hugh Rodham, Ed Koch, Geraldine Ferraro, Bob "Death Tax" Johnson, Bob McCain Kerrey, Susan Estritch.....

Your arguments don't really hold up.

Claiming Obama is the flawed candidate because of his "questionable associations" shows a particularly delicious naivety.

Honestly, you still sound very confused, which is understandable.  Perhaps you'll figure everything out when it's time to put up or shut up in November and decide if the issues are more important than your petulant pride.

Hillary Clinton has wholeheartedly thrown her support to the Democratic Nominee, I'd think if you respected her as much as you claim you'll give that some serious thought before deciding anything.

And don't forget the bitter lemonade.

With lines like this one:
"...being saddled with the vague starry eyed wet behind the ears guy instead who brings dozens of questionable associations to the table.", I can tell from way over here that there is bitterness in everything you leave behind.

Enjoy working for the McCain campaign.

This is not the sort of thing that should be on the rec list, especially now that we have a nominee...

I reply here rather than at CCN to help balance out some of the knee-jerk reaction of others.

No matter if I've disagreed with some of what you've written, the Democratic party will be diminished with you leaving.

I think you're a good egg. Good luck with the move.

Hey bluemoon, I understand where you are going with this. It's getting crazy here. Another blog refers to a couple of a-holes from this site also confirming what you said. They actually list the names. As a matter of fact, one of the most ardent Obama supporters openly admits that he was once a Bush Republican. There is tunnel vision here and Republican style tactics are being used in an attempt to sway people into voting for Obama; this is done through guilt trips divisiveness and group mentality. There are fewer diaries that I actually enjoy reading as of late but that's OK, I've been visiting more welcoming blogs that appreciate more versatile viewpoints.

The webmasters/administrator for the most part have been pretty cool though. I don't blame them for the site going south.

Who wants to leave because they feel it's morally repugnant to vote for Obama because HE disenfranchised voters do so without drawing attention to themselves?

You want to leave? GO.  I'll help you pack.

But from what I see, most of you do not live in a reality based world.

You came to the Demcratic Party as an indie in '00?

And then you get your pissy final shots in regarding dozens of questionable associations?

FUCKING HYPOCRISY TO THE EXTREME.

GO.  JUST. GO.  DON'T. LOOK. BACK.  JUST. GO.

The large majority of us here have decided to unify to put a Democrat in the White House.  Obviously you never really had an interest in that.

no one cares what you do. you don't matter. never did, never will. the future will fall into place just fine without ever noticing that you were missing.

go feed your bitter pie to someone that wants it.

At moments when most angered by the Clinton campaign I found myself constructing and testing arguments for not backing her if she won the nomination. (He presidency would empower the right-wing hate mongers while validating their methods came the closest)

They always fell apart, at least once the intensity of anger lessened.

McCain recent embrace of warrantees search is an example of why.

Perhaps the same will happen to some now too angry.

I am with you my dear Comrade.
Funny thing that crazy kids from dkos have no idea what left is.
They labeled themselves with idiotic labels like progressive and liberals.
(For those who do not know: left = socialist; I don't see any real left among those "progressive" idiots)

and did not nominate the perfect candidate?  the system was unfair?  The whole thing was fixed?

This has to be your first or second trip to the dance if this stuff is still shocking to you.  News flash -- NO nomination is ever "fair", they all seem rigged to someone and politics tends to be, well, extremely POLITICAL.

It slays me how folks who seem capable of recognizing office, academic or small town politicking get all afluffer when they sense the same on the national political stage.  Duh.  It's ALL about who you know, your timing, your connections and your ability to manuveur the system.  "Honest politician" is the original oxymoron.

Clinton had her strategy to beat the system, Obama had his.  His worked.  Hers didn't.  Just exactly like Kennedy out-thought Johnson, Carter out-thought Teddy, Kerry out-thought Edwards.  Anyone who still clings to the notion that the nomination process is strictly about popular appeal and the will of the people will get their education eventually.  

It's a nasty deceptive business -- always has been, always will be.  Drop out if you can't handle that reality.

ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz. Another unhinged rant. whatever. can't even make sense of it.

Thanks for nothing, er I mean pie.

We will be busy trying to repair the damage done!

If Obama looses because Clinton supporters can't handle that a Black man beat their candidate fair and square then many of us will be repeating your words back to you if she runs in 2012. It just a fact.

Welp, time to get my revenge and vote for McCain so the people that voted for Obama will die in Iran because i'm a giant baby over my candidate losing.

Revenge will be mine!

The pie is great but the lemonade is really bitter. Your tastebuds are off.

Blame the victim? Hmmmm, good to know that you freely admit to playing the victim.

You can take your jacks and go home yelling cheat, cheat, cheat!!! But that doesn't make it true. Soviet type elections are not what we believe in here in the USA. You can stop with the drama queen crap and decide if you want the policies of the Republicans to continue or not. This is not about you. This is not about anything less than the future of our country.

I am tired of hearing that this was a manufactured DNC nomination fight. I am a voter. I am a middle-aged woman voter. My vote counts too. I am not a tool of anyone. I have never been so involved with a campaign in my life. Quit telling me that it is about the popular vote, when even the candidate going in said it was all about the delegates.
If you want to change the rules, I would be behind that now. But to yell about the rules you knew about and agreed to play by before you started losing is just unbelievable.

Now go away while I enjoy the pie and throw the lemonade out.

Most of us have just one more thing to do this year - wipe the floor with the republican kakistocracy.   I would have liked a different, tougher, more seasoned rag to use for this purpose.  But it matters not much.   The one we have will do the job just fine.

Hey, I'm an independent voter, too, and formerly Republican. Now I'll be participating in the Democratic party and helping to shape it in the direction I think it should go. It'll be fun, because there's a huge variety of opinion on how that should go, but at least my voice will be a part of it.

You? Not so much. Assuage your anguish however you please, but understand you'll forever lose your chance to make a difference in the process.

the last thing this party needs is unfair, probably bigoted, certainly self-deluded morons. that's what the GOP is for!

you are sad sad people.

Do y'all really think you can keep the umbrage smoldering for five months?

Anyone who lives in MI or FL and thinks the DNC "disenfranchised" them should realize that if they had voted for McCain in the Republican primary in their state then their vote would have counted...

...wait for it...

HALF!

Along with three other states!

Bye Bye don't let the door hit you in the you know where.

Oh please. You'll vote Obama in November.  And you don't it doesn't matter because we'll win w/o you.

ehhh.

[i sympathize but dont know what to say]

I'm one who believes that Dean and Pelosi were looking for an excuse to break the Clinton's power.

That being said, the "wet behind the ears" guy got 18 million votes too, and might actually have more people who wanted to vote for him (re: MI). We'll also never know how many he would have gotten, had PV been the primary metric.

The fact that she didn't utterly crush him, is ultimately what opened the chinks in the armor. When some unknown guy ties Tiger Woods, it's Woods who has to answer if his game is gone.

I can't agree there's been any vast corruption of the process. Nudges, perhaps, but to imply anything else is to ignore the OTHER 18 million+.

pretentious corporate (but positioned as anti-corporate) candidate,

What a load of nonsense.  I haven't seen a candidate subject to more vague, generalized accusations with little basis in facts and evidence.  

What's worse, these accusations actually more fairly reflect the candidate being supported by these accusers.

Just check out the facts - compare Obama's donors to Clinton's donors, and let me know what you find.  

It's clear that there's a concerted effort coming from the usual suspects to game the rec list here...for the love of God, please ignore them.

You know, I've known my share of disappointment in plenty of elections.  I can have empathy for that.  Heck, you don't get to be a woman of my age without knowing disappointment, truthfully.  That being said, whatever my personal feelings or disappointment, a lot of kids are dying and getting hurt in the bloody sandpit called Iraq.  I want my son out of there.  It's that simple.  I know McCain will leave him there.  I want our kids home and our tax dollars to be returned from that soiled sandbox in the ME.  McCain won't do that, he's said so.  Obama says he will and he has my vote.  If he fails to live up to his word, I'll be on him like flies on stink, but unless or until that happens, I'll work to see him elected.  I'm sorry you don't feel that way and I wish you the best of luck.

I have no intention of debating who the biggest "meanie" in the primary was or who said the worst things.  For me, it's ancient history.  The stakes cannot be higher and people got emotionally involved because our collective future is on the line.  I understand that.  I also understand that McCain will give us four more years of what we have endured the last eight years.  There's no question in my mind about that.  For me, this is pretty cut and dried, but I can understand that it's cloudy for you.  

I recognize that there are only two candidates left, McCain and Obama, and realistically I have to choose one of them.  No contest for me, but like I said, I want my son, the troops, and our money out of Iraq.  I'm personally invested in that so it makes it simple for me.  I figure, all the insults thrown in the election, by parties on all sides, yeah, they stung a bit at times; but they are nothing compared to the wounds of Iraq.  

As I said, I wish you the best of luck.  I hope you find a place of healing for you.