Obama At Odds With His FP Team

At this point, I think Barack Obama should just be quiet about Pakistan. After his FP advisor Susan Rice earlier today said:

"Senator Clinton&'s view has been closer to Bush's, which is to see Musharraf as the linchpin but democracy as something that is desirable, but not necessarily essential to our security interests," said Rice, "Whereas Obama feels that democracy and human rights in the context of Pakistan are essential to our security."

Now in a complete aboutface, Obama disagrees with Hillary Clinton's suggestion of an international commission to investigate the Bhutto assassination, saying:

Clinton also called for an independent, international investigation into Bhutto's death, "perhaps along the lines of what the United Nations have been doing with respect to the assassination of Prime Minister Hariri in Lebanon." Obama said he doesn't share that view. "It is important to us to not give the idea that Pakistan is unable to handle its own affairs," he said.

Maybe Susan Rice and Obama need to try and get on the same page when they are making utterly contradictory statements about their faith in Musharraf ON THE SAME DAY!

Tags: Barack Obama, Election 2008 (all tags)

Comments

84 Comments

Obama is desperate at this point

He is losing and he is trying to draw distinctions to stop his slide.  He is lucky the media is going easy on his uneven performance.  Huckabbe's lunacy is helping some there.

But if Hillary calls the sky blue tomorrow a jittery Obama will call it green.

by dpANDREWS 2007-12-28 03:33PM | 0 recs
I swaer to Gawd
that is what it seems like. Axelrod is the devil.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 03:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama is desperate at this point

Clinton should trick him. She should issue a statement tomorrow that she is against teen pregnancy.

By noon, Obama would be on the stump touting his commitment to increased teen pregnancy.

by hwc 2007-12-28 03:39PM | 0 recs
hwc

Clinton should trick him. She should issue a statement tomorrow that she is against teen pregnancy.

By noon, Obama would be on the stump touting his commitment to increased teen pregnancy.

WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

And so true.

by samueldem 2007-12-28 04:05PM | 0 recs
This is ALL Axelrod's fault
EVERY big of it. He should have apologized and said he misspoke. INSTEAD he sent Obama on Larry King to defend HIM, (WTF? When do you send the fucking candidate to defend the strategist? What a fucking joke. A GOOD strategist would have fallen on his sword for his candidate, even if he thought he was right. AXELROD is such a dick he is making Obama fall on his sword for fucking AXELROD!) Then Axelrod sends out Rice to REPEAT his bullshit. Now Obama yroies some new shit that goes totally against the BULLSHIT Sussan Rice said this morning. Axelrod is KILLING Obama. If I was a committed Obama supporter, I would sooo fucking hate Axelrod. Hell, I hate him now.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 03:36PM | 0 recs
I must say

the day Axelrod dumped Edwards for Obama was a great day for Edwards.

Axelrod always runs the same kind of campaign, based on the candidate's inspiring personal story. If that's not enough, he has no clue what to do.

One reason I am increasingly believing that Hillary is more electable than Obama is the way her campaign has been run compared to his all year. Not that camp Hillary never makes a mistake, but they tend to stop digging when they get in a hole.

Looking at the way Obama's team handled the Iraq War supplemental funding votes, the McClurkin fiasco and this doesn't give me confidence about how they would stand up to the GOP hate machine.

by desmoinesdem 2007-12-28 04:42PM | 0 recs
Re: I must say

they are extremely arrogant, they can do no wrong and so can never change course and they don't care what you or anyone else thinks as long as they have poll numbers they are happy with.

by MollieBradford 2007-12-28 05:34PM | 0 recs
Re: I must say

Very cogent analysis, desmoinesdem. I couldn't agree more.  There aren't any perfect candidates out there, but we can at least ask for one that doesn't think he's always right and therefore keeps digging that hole.

by Denny Crane 2007-12-28 09:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

Susan Rice's area of expertise is Africa. Her commenting on Pakistan is like Condoleeza Rice commenting on Pakistan.

Fittingly, the most Pakistan versed of Obama's advisors is Brzezinski. His advice? "Shut up and let the Pakistanis figure it out."

by ThinkingDem 2007-12-28 03:37PM | 0 recs
So who the fuck had Susan Rice
say that bullshit this morning? and did no one tell Obama that she had said that? Is the Obama campaign just a damage control operation for David FUCKING Axelrod now?
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 03:39PM | 0 recs
Re: So who the fuck had Susan Rice

I think she did that of her own accord.

by Mike Pridmore 2007-12-28 03:54PM | 0 recs
I do not for a second believe that
I believe Axelrod put her up to it. She said the same exact words! Axelrod is the devil.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 03:56PM | 0 recs
Re: I do not for a second believe that

Perhaps.  But the buck stops at Obama's desk. If he can't deal with Axelrod then he can't run teams of smart people, like the ones that he will have to run if he is president.  Ultimately, even if Axelrod is the devil, he is Obama's devil to deal with.

by Mike Pridmore 2007-12-28 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

Obama should stop misrepresenting Hillary Clinton's positions and focus on patching up his own campaign.

by hwc 2007-12-28 03:38PM | 0 recs
yup

Obama is all about Clinton these days.  Does he have a message of his own that isn't "Hillary is a poopie pants"?

by MollieBradford 2007-12-28 03:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

Exactly how are these two statements in opposition:

"Whereas Obama feels that democracy and human rights in the context of Pakistan are essential to our security."

''It is important to us to not give the idea that Pakistan is unable to handle its own affairs," he said.

WTF are you doing? Trying to stir up trouble when none exists?

by aiko 2007-12-28 03:44PM | 0 recs
Are you really this stupid?
Do you NOt believe that demanding democracy and human rights in Pakistan is NOT "giving the idea that Pakistan is unable tohandle its own affairs?" Hell, Musharraf LOVED Obama's statement of CONFIDENCE in the Musharraf government. The statements are UTTERLY contradictory. Only a cult member or an idiot could not see that.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 03:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Are you really this stupid?

calling me names is not going to help. and i still don't get what the crises is that you are so bent out of shape about.

have you ever heard of a mountain and a molehill?

by aiko 2007-12-28 03:53PM | 0 recs
I didn ot call you a name
I described you. BTW, are you not at all pissed at how Axelrod is killing Obama here?
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 03:57PM | 0 recs
Re: I didn ot call you a name

I could care less. This is a non-issue.

by aiko 2007-12-28 04:03PM | 0 recs
You spend a lot of time
discussing this non-issue. Methinks you doth protest too much.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:08PM | 0 recs
Re: You spend a lot of time

You are an attention seeking hound--and you got this lousy diary on the rec list. So bully for you. It doesn't deserve to be there but the edwards supporters are salivating for any anti-obama leaf letting they can find.

by aiko 2007-12-28 05:20PM | 0 recs
Heh
That is a funny comment. You do know I post at Talk LEft? I get all the attention I could want there. I come here to talk horserace politics. There is never any substantive issues actually discussed at this site.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 05:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Heh

well, there is some.  those stories just get drowned out by things like this.

by Jim Engler 2007-12-28 05:30PM | 0 recs
Never
even the ones that attempt it become a candidate food fight. The funny thing is I really do not care that much for any of our candidates. They are all acceptable of course but none lights my fire.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 05:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Never

Could have fooled me......

Anyway, I agree, this site has become a pissing match as opposed to real discussion that I used to like to read.

A shame, but we prob only have about a month or so to go before things settle down so we'll just have to ride it out.

by Jim Engler 2007-12-28 06:00PM | 0 recs
Coulda have fooled you?
That is because you are in throes of Candidate love and can only see critiques of your love in terms of someone loving aother candidate as the motivation. You can not possibly see anyone objectively seeing a problem with your candidate. Frankly, your type of analysis is why issues can not be discussed here..
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-29 03:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Coulda have fooled you?

all you've done over 3 days is constantly critique Obama, how is that supposed to be taken.  Of course, as an Obama supporter thats how I'm going to see it.  But is it still not correct.  And by doing this, you, in your view, indirectly assist the supporters of Clinton and Edwards.  Of course, this is not your intention.

And my type of analysis would be fine, were it not for the considerable amount of hate, warranted and unwarranted spread on this website currently.  The reason I started posting, after a considerable amount of time just reading (two years), was because of this shrill environment, that gets worse every single day.

by Jim Engler 2007-12-29 06:11AM | 0 recs
Leave Edwards & his supporters out of this.
Obama stuck his big foot in his silver tongued mouth all by himself. When the best you've got is "I beat Alan Keyes and I'm charming" , this is the type of campaigning bull shit you get. If BTD can take him apart, wait till the Republicans get their hands on your golden boy.
by dkmich 2007-12-29 04:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Leave Edwards

I got a laugh out of this comment. I do hope the golden boy with the silver-tongued mouth doesn't win.

by Coral 2007-12-29 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

More importantly Obama is just absolutely wrong on the international investigation.  Most Pakistanis are rightly not going to trust an investigation by the Musharraf gov't.  For Pakistan's stability there needs to be a credible, ie outside investigation.

by MassEyesandEars 2007-12-29 03:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

As far as Pakistan handling its own affairs, Obama apparently missed the Pakistani Minister of Interior's claim that Bhutto wasn't assassinated, but that she died from striking her head on the latch of her vehicle's sunroof.

by hwc 2007-12-28 03:50PM | 0 recs
I am sure Obama trusts Musharraf
to run a clean election AND to also fight Al Qaida. He would NEVEr suggest the Pakistanis can not fight Al Qaida in Pakistan . . .oh wait. I mean this is ridiculous.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 03:51PM | 0 recs
Re: I am sure Obama trusts Musharraf

are you advocating an invasion of Pakistan?? good god.

by aiko 2007-12-28 03:54PM | 0 recs
Are you a simpleton?
Now I called you a name. You simply have no memory of a fucking thing obviously. Did you forget the big Obama brouhaha when he talked about attacking Al Qaida in Pakistan? And if you want to look it up you dope, I strongly supported Obama's statements then. Did you condemn them? Fuck no, you are a cultist. Or a dope. Or both.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 03:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Are you a simpleton?

he said that he would use US forces to attack al-queda in pakistan. he didn't say that he would invade or over throw the leader or nation build or occupy.

I maintain that the two sentences are not contradictory and your diary is a waste of time.

by aiko 2007-12-28 04:10PM | 0 recs
No fucking shit you moron
I argued that THEN. And NOW you use the same tired smear used against Obama against me. You are such a moron. BTW, Obama called for violating Pakistan's sovereignty If they did not handle Al Qaida. He was right. But he certainly led many people to RIGHTLY believe that Pakistan can not handle its internal affairs. You are such a cultist that you can no longer think your way out of a paper bag.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: No fucking shit you moron

Your logic is beyond me. Handling their internal affairs and fighting Islamic terrorists on the Afghanistan border are not synonymous.

by aiko 2007-12-28 05:23PM | 0 recs
Being a moron
it is not surprising that all of this is beyond you.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 05:27PM | 0 recs
Re: I am sure Obama trusts Musharraf

Obama advocated an invasion of Pakistan a few months ago.

by hwc 2007-12-28 04:03PM | 0 recs
No that was Obama

he said that as president he would invade Pakistan if their government didn't take care of the taliban themselves. good god, WTF was he thinking?

BTD said nothing of the sort nor did he imply it.

by MollieBradford 2007-12-28 04:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

I think what you have is a case of smart people not conferring with each other before they make their pronouncements.  And if they do this badly now at reining in their individual egos to the need for teamwork, one can only imagine their gawdawful performance in a time of real crisis for the US.  Not to say that Bhutto's death is not a crisis, but what it is bringing about is not an immediate threat to our national security.

by Mike Pridmore 2007-12-28 03:53PM | 0 recs
Mike, if they had a position on
this crisis besides "let's try and make Hillary look bad", they wouldn't have to confer with each other.  They would all be on the same page.
I heard months ago that Obama often went off script and had to be reigned in.  I thought it was just gossip at that time.  But I am wondering if anything Obama says is authentic.  If it were would there be be this need to try and remember what the storyline was?
by MollieBradford 2007-12-28 03:59PM | 0 recs
More and more

I think the Obama camp are saying all of these things to get the Clinton camp to respond to all of their attacks. They know that the mainstream media will barely cover Obama's flubs. But if they can get Clinton to respond, the media will say that she's desperate; she's being nasty etc.

It's why he said something like this on the campaign trail today:

"It's that experience, that understanding, not just of what world leaders I went and talked to in the ambassador's house I had tea with, but understanding the lives of the people like my grandmother who lives in a tiny hut in Africa"
 http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/ 12/28/oh-oh-tempest-in-a-teapot/

Obviously, Obama's campaign must think that this is a winning strategy for him. His supporters don't have a problem with it. I don't see the media giving him a hard time about it. So I guess it's all kosher? :shrugs:

by ademption 2007-12-28 04:00PM | 0 recs
See
I think you are wrong on how this stuff has played in the Media. Actually, Ithink THIS STORY is one the Clinton team would be smart to counter on as it underscores their "Obama is not ready" argument. I think you are fundamentally misreading this situation. Axelrod is defending AXELROD, Obama's chances be damned.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:02PM | 0 recs
Re: See

Look, its Friday night of a four day week-end. When everyone goes back to work on Wednesday--it will be caucus eve....there is no story here.  

by aiko 2007-12-28 04:07PM | 0 recs
Okay
so your argument is this isa the LAST story beofre the cacuses and this is GOOD for Obama. My gawd.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Okay

No. It is far from the last story. There is the story about Hillary's tea party over seas. Much more fun. There are more polls. There are more speeches.

by aiko 2007-12-28 04:12PM | 0 recs
So Obama's sexist remark
is gonna save the day? Okaaay.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re: So Obama's sexist remark

You are a pain in my ass.

by aiko 2007-12-28 04:51PM | 0 recs
Last I looked
I wrote this diary, not you. You could leave at any time.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Last I looked

OK. I will.

by aiko 2007-12-28 05:11PM | 0 recs
Excellent
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 05:28PM | 0 recs
Re: More and more

I can't any self respecting woman to support him after he makes these kind of sexist remarks.

by MollieBradford 2007-12-28 04:07PM | 0 recs
Re: More and more

Unbelieveable!

by lonnette33 2007-12-28 04:09PM | 0 recs
Re: More and more

Everyone who thinks the sexist tea party made Hillary look 'good' please stand up. The NYT was making a joke out of it! (tea and tempest...get it?)

by aiko 2007-12-28 04:14PM | 0 recs
I think it makes Obama look bad
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:17PM | 0 recs
Re: I think it makes Obama look bad

you would.

by aiko 2007-12-28 04:49PM | 0 recs
Indeed I would
And yet, I also see things that people say make him look bad actually do not. FOR EXAMPLE, my cultist friend, Obama's statements on DLs for undocumented aliens AND his statements about attacking Al Qaida in Pakistan. you see, when one is NOT a full member in the bloody cult, one can see things objectively.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:52PM | 0 recs
Re: More and more
Obama's remark was sexist not the tea party.  Did you really mean to say otherwise?  
You really are reaching.
by MollieBradford 2007-12-28 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: More and more

Who the fuck are you selling this shit to? Go back to DailyKos. Stupid ass!

by lonnette33 2007-12-28 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

Obama is falling apart! Just think if he were our Commander in Chief. Scary stuff if you ask me!

by lonnette33 2007-12-28 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

my favorite part about this whole story, is how much play it's getting in the media......ZERO

Maybe desmoinesdem could give us some insight on any local coverage of the story, if there is any.   Thats what matters at this point.

And I'm just as mad at what Axelrod said as anybody else before the whole Hillary clan jumps all over me.  It was wrong, and he shouldn't have said it.

by Jim Engler 2007-12-28 04:09PM | 0 recs
Which story?
the one I just posted? It just happened. If you mean the Axelord smears Hillary story, it has been the top story for 2 days. The thing I love about this story is how all the Obama cultists continue to lie to themselves about this story.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Which story?

Top story where? I don't watch much TV but the print reporters are barely covering it. I admit the Edwards' blogs are biting but who else?

by aiko 2007-12-28 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Which story?

it's all over TV, where most people get their news, right or wrong.  Sucks to be so out of touch huh?

by MollieBradford 2007-12-28 04:19PM | 0 recs
Apparently you do not rerad newspapers either
As for TV, it was ALL OVER the TV today.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Apparently you do not rerad newspapers either

Looking at the stories online (granted I am a biased Obama cultist) I still don't see how this hurts him.  Maybe you are right that we could have picked a better narrative to enter the final weekend on. However, it brings up the issue of the Iraq war vote--which hurts Hillary and John. And frankly he can't invent experience--so folks will either take a leap--roll the dice--or they won't. I think he offers something more substantial than the same old tired politician. Will the voters in Iowa see that? I am hoping. Plus a close second to an Edwards win is almost as good as a win.

by aiko 2007-12-28 04:34PM | 0 recs
So you admit it is being covered now?
That is a big step in the recovery provess for you.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:45PM | 0 recs
Re: So you admit it is being covered now?

12 steps?

by aiko 2007-12-28 04:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Which story?

the only bit I've seen was with Blitzer last night on Larry King, with Obama as the guest.  Otherwise nothing.

I must be living in the MSNBC "Obama" bubble again.   Damnit...

by Jim Engler 2007-12-28 04:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Which story?
Apparently so.
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

I saw ti covered several times today.  Obama was on TV when he made his defense of Axelrod.  It's getting play.  The question is will it get more and last longer than 24 hours?

by MollieBradford 2007-12-28 04:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

depends on what the polls look like come Monday, when I bet we're going to get a slew of new ones.  I actually thought we might today, but no so as of now.

by Jim Engler 2007-12-28 04:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team
big tent is right-this story has legs and today was more reported than yesterday
yes-cnn covered this and interviewed hillary today on the matter. fox noise even reported on the tea comment and albright,while the reporter was talking, sent him a blackberry email statement on the tea remark. the reporter read this during the segment. abc interviewed edwards and he condemned axelrod's remarks etc.. clark is talking about it. this sunday hillary is on this week on abc. this story will live its a sad day when fox is the one which had a piece on the tea remark and alrbight's response!
by art3 2007-12-28 10:45PM | 0 recs
Saw it on the TV

This morning at the gym, during random 1/2 hour on the treadmill.

by Coral 2007-12-29 08:50AM | 0 recs
Where has it played in the media?

Other than CNN and Fox News, it hasn't played in the media. I haven't seen MSNBC cover the story yet. It's not been the top issue like some of Hillary's recent gaffes. No, Obama will get away with it like he always gets away with everything.

Let's say the Clinton campaign did make it an issue. Then the media would turn it around and say that Hillary is just being negative and that experience really doesn't matter anyway b/c this is a change election. Cue all the MSNBC pundits, some CNN pundits etc. So you tell me exactly how this would benefit Hillary when the media won't cover it and in the slight chance that they did cover it or HRC made it an issue, they just give Obama a pass?

No, I think HRC should just ignore Obama and focus on her positives in the closing days. The national media probably would try to find some gaffe within her campaign and continue to talk it down (what's new?) and give glowing reports of the Obama rallies. Tim Russert will give Obama a softball interview while George S. tears into Hillary etc, etc, etc, but in the end, just maybe Iowa voters will ignore the national media's coverage of the cammpaign. Who knows?

by ademption 2007-12-28 04:16PM | 0 recs
I have seen MSNBC cover it
I saw stories on it in the NYTimes and the Wapo. Do you folks actually read the paper or watch TV?
by Big Tent Democrat 2007-12-28 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: I have seen MSNBC cover it

Yeah, I've been watching the news all day. I had MSNBC most of the day. I didn't see Morning Joe or the lady newsreaders cover the story or Chris Matthews. When did you see the story appear on MSNBC? I didn't see the story on the ABC or NBC network nightly news either.

Sorry, I just don't see this getting a lot of play, especially with the national media covering Obama's tail whenever he makes mistakes. He's the inspirational candidate whose candidancy will inspire the entire third world. Inspiring candidates don't make mistakes so no, this story won't get a lot of play. Just his sweeping, inspiring speeches....

by ademption 2007-12-28 04:27PM | 0 recs
Sorry

this is supposed to be my reply to BTD's 9:02 post.

by ademption 2007-12-28 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

Wow, I'm blown away by this.  The idea that Musharraf is a benevolent leader and we must ACTIVELY vouch for his credibility is straight out of the Bush Administration.  I never would have expected Obama to take this position.

I agree with BTD that it really looks like Obama is trying as hard as he can to create a distinction here.  I usually have a pretty good sense for when there's a real difference and when someone is trying to create the appearance of one.

When I read Rice's comment from this morning I scratched my head a little bit because it really didn't seem like an accurate characterization of the candidates' positions.  As fate would have it, susanhu's recommended diary from earlier had links to video of both Clinton and Obama talking to Katie Couric about Pakistan.  Hillary's answer was all like "democracy, democracy, democracy" and advancing the interests of the Pakistani people, while Obama's was much more focused on safeguarding our own interests.  That's not necessarily right or wrong, but it's kinda 180 degrees from how Rice put it!  I think Rice was talking out of turn a little.

by Steve M 2007-12-28 05:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama At Odds With His FP Team

i've said it before

susan rice is a fucking idiot, an African "expert" commenting on the middle east... sort of like Condi, the "soviet" expert, trying to handle the middle east.

When will Bush/Obama get a MIDDLE EAST EXPERT to talk about the MIDDLE EAST.

by sepulvedaj3 2007-12-28 05:38PM | 0 recs
And, yet, you'll go on supporting him.

Unbelievable.

by masslib1 2007-12-28 08:16PM | 0 recs
Re: And, yet, you'll go on supporting him.

Agreed masslib!

by lonnette33 2007-12-29 01:49AM | 0 recs

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