This Clintonista Salutes Obama-Biden '08

Obama-Biden '08

Here is one Clintonista who salutes the new ticket.  Barack Obama's choice shows his maturity and judgment as a prospective president of the United States.  Obama is not afraid of the qualities of excellent experience Joe Biden would bring to a new government, but he embraces it.  Obama knows that no human being has every quality he needs to do a huge job, and he is unafraid to admit areas that he needs to shore up.  Obama is not afraid to be challenged, because Biden is no "yes" man. Obama has made a very presidential choice:  Joe Biden is singularly well-prepared to be president of the United States, and Barack Obama has chosen well.  Anyone who wanted Hillary Clinton to be president or vice president because of the qualities she would bring to the ticket cannot help but believe that Obama has found in Biden those qualities we found so attractive in Hillary.

Tags: Barack Obama, joe biden (all tags)



Obama-Biden '08!


by Beltway Dem 2008-08-23 02:52AM | 0 recs
Do you really?

Ever since Obama wrapped up th nomination so many "Clintonista" have sprung forward to say they are for Obama.   Makes me wonder.  Clintonista was always a slur, never a compliment, when talking about the Clinton's.

Could all these "Clintonista" singing the praises of Obama have been actual Obama supporters all along?

by dpANDREWS 2008-08-23 02:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Even PUMAs have been calling themselves Clintonista.  Are you just paying attention to this for the first time?

by Beltway Dem 2008-08-23 03:14AM | 0 recs
Wow... I hadn't considered that angle.

All the Clintonistas were just Obama sleeper cells.  Maybe the Clinton voters were, too.  And Bill and Hillary.  All of them out to trick us.  What clever people...

by Dumbo 2008-08-23 03:15AM | 0 recs

The truth is out!  Beltway, sricki, linfar, CG and folks have all been playing the most cleverly disquised Obama Sleeper Cell game you could imagine.

Heck, now that you've broken the code I'll confess, too.  I'm not really an Obama fan, I've just a very tricky Barr fan.  And Barr isn't really a Barr fan, he's actually a cunningly crafty Nader fan.  And Nader isn't actually Nader.  He's actually a broom disguised as a horse disguised as Nader.

Oh, the awful shame of being exposed as charlatans, all of us...

by chrisblask 2008-08-23 03:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Not this one.  He still has to win me over.  I am disappointed that HRC is not VP.

by mjc888 2008-08-23 03:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

You will get over it, if not, you can always vote for the other guy, or better yet, run for office yourself.

by kbuggy 2008-08-23 03:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Have a cup of coffee before you try to convince anyone of anything, hmm?  "Get Over It" is not exactly the winningest argument.

Your message seems to be "tough on you, don't like it then go vote for the other guy."  And that's exactly the kind of message that gets people royally know what happens?  They vote for the other guy...not because they don't like Obama but just to spite you, the stranger in the blogs whose unpleasantness shouldn't mean squat.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-23 04:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

See (2) above...

This is why I'm completely anti-anonymity in political discourse.  I don't think grownups should be allowed to be taken seriously unless they are willing to actually stand up and say "this is my opinion" like ever single politician, reporter, journalist and person-at-the-podium in every actual townhall meeting has to.

The only reason I don't spend all my time ranting about this is that 99% of bloggers are anonymous and there is no blog that requires people to stand behind their words.  

But I'll bet you a dollar right now that absolutely nothing less will fix the Troll problem, because there is nothing in the world to stop any tricky bastard from pretending to be one thing or another for exactly the nefarious purpose you note several times here - and being successful at it.  

This stuff (Information Security/integrity/validity/...) is what I do for a living, and I have some fairly long trains of thought behind this.  Best advice:  if someone seems outrageous just assume their lying and trying to get your goat...



by chrisblask 2008-08-23 04:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Thanks Chris.  I don't understand this Troll stuff, can't seem to spot 'em, and I've been called a troll a few times myself here so I don't even understand signs that make people flag them.  I guess I'll have to do some research on it.

Sigh.  It would be so nice to just take people at their word.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-23 05:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

In Real Life you really can.

What I find ironic is the accepted cynicism of our culture that people are lying and deceitful i person all the time - when statistically and experientially it just isnt' true - and simultaneously this kind of acceptance that someone named "blueksy75" in a chat room is being honest with their words...

BTW - a "Troll" is someone pretending to be something they aren't, for the express purpose of causing shit.  "Agent Provaceteur".

Very hard to spot accurately, best to take a positive approach and assume it someone seems to be insane that they are just full of poop...

by chrisblask 2008-08-23 05:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Great post Chris, the anonymity thing really bothers me and it's why I post my e-mail.  It is so easy to fling garbage at people when you are hiding your electronics.  

by mady 2008-08-23 05:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

good for you, and exactly right.

At the end of the day the blogosphere only has one choice if it is to be a serious forum for political discussion: only those willing to speak their minds with their own voices and "faces" get to sit at the Big Table.

by chrisblask 2008-08-23 05:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

If someone is so daft as to allow anonymous people on the internet to vote against their own best interests out of a fit of pique and/or spite... then what they hell are doing on a political blog in the first place?

by Dreorg 2008-08-23 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Wow, talk about poor sentence structure.  That's what I get for not self-editing.

My point was that anyone who is legitimately investing time in a political blog probably is not someone prone to vote against their own self-interests simply as a reaction against the opinions of anonymous people online.  If they claim to be, then their entire online persona is probably fraudulent.

Anyone who says "People like you are going to drive me to vote for X" is either a)unhinged in some way or b) being intellectually dishonest in how they present themselves.  Either way, they aren't worth wasting time, effort, or keyboard strokes on.

by Dreorg 2008-08-23 07:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

We all know that there are some Clintonistas who refuse to be happy.  It's a choice.  Be unhappy if it makes you happy.

by Beltway Dem 2008-08-23 03:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

And another Obama supporter wins over an undecided voter in the blogs.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-23 04:23AM | 0 recs

There's no way to win you over.  You have hardened your heart.  Only you can decide what you're going to do.  I can't change you.

by Beltway Dem 2008-08-23 05:18AM | 0 recs

What nonsense.  You sound like a hallmark commercial.  You told a disappointed clinton supporter, who had just stated that he/she was undecided, to "get over it."

Her/his heart was not hardened.  It was a moment of disappointment, but you probably turned it into a moment of anger and drove that voter in the very direction we DON'T want them to go.

I am not the undecided here, the person you responded to WAS, however.  After getting hit hard by three of you with the same message (that being, "we don't care about your unhappiness, get on the boat or get lost") I feel pretty confident that your point was achieved.  She/he will now vote for McCain or not vote at all.  You have decided that voter.  Good job.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-25 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Yes, I am too, mjc.  I really had my heart there and I didn't leave much room for anything else.  Why, I ask myself, didn't Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama shut things down earlier?  Why did they allow so many of us to continue to hope?  Were we supposed to assume that our hopes were unrealistic based on 'rumors' that Michelle Obama said "No Way" or because the MSM had ruled her out?

The MSM has been wrong so many times before.

I have an expectation, however.  My expectation is based on the fact that Obama has run a pretty savvy campaign so far, and the fact that Hillary isn't going to let anyone crap on her.

There's something more to this decision, I think, that we don't yet understand.  

And there are other factors at play.  Obama has chosen a VP who will be much too old to run for president next time around.  Biden will be 73 in 2016.  

A lot can change between now and then, but Hillary Clinton's stock is very high right now.  Next to Obama she is the most powerful Democrat in the country, in terms of her influence with constituents and her ability to raise money.  There's no excuse for her not positioning herself for the next run in '16 if she is really hungry for it.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-23 03:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

I think that the main thing is that Clinton wouldn't work well as a number two. The media is too obssessed with the Clintons and Bill would needlessly complicate things. This isn't an insult to either of them. I think Hillary is better served by going for 2016, or becoming a powerful member of Congress. Both of those have a lot more power than the VP ever would.

by Gorelab 2008-08-23 04:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Or maybe a stint as Governer of New York?  Or how about Attorney General?  She was rated one of the top 100 lawyers in the country at one time.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-23 04:29AM | 0 recs
Re: I wonder if Senator Clinton

might not be interested in the Supreme Court one day.

I have never been able to figure out what "qualifies" someone to get onto the Court - but I'd like to see a strong supporter of women's issues ( and working class issues - like Health care) on the court.  

Just idle thoughts this morning.

by NeciVelez 2008-08-23 05:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Start by determining whether she wanted him to ask. Howard Fineman suggests no, she herself suggested that she never said she wanted it yesterday.

She couldn't SAY this, though, because she didn't want to explain why she didn't want it and she needed to keep hope alive to try and pay off her debt. It's messy business, but that's the nature of business.

by vcalzone 2008-08-23 04:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Thanks for reminding me...we're running out of time to help her with her debt, and I just got paid!

by mtnspirit 2008-08-23 04:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

:-) It's stuff like that that makes me sad to think the Democratic party may have lost your support.

by vcalzone 2008-08-23 06:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Yeah well life is full of dissappointments so you'll just have to get over it.I don't know about you but  the word "dissappointed" wouldn't even begin to describe how I would feel if McFraud got it.

by Lodgemannered 2008-08-23 03:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?




Wow, these arguments have mjc convinced, I'm sure.  Please don't tell me that all of you GET OVER IT folks are working for Obama to get reelected, because I find that very hard to believe.

This wasn't a tennis match, it wasn't a speech competition, it wasn't a hopscotch game.  Is this how you handle undecided voters?

by mtnspirit 2008-08-23 04:18AM | 0 recs
It isnt' how the campaign or those

doing any variation of "serious" work for it handle undecided voters, but there are two other classes of critters indistinguishable from each other on the Intertoobs:

1.  Folks who just aren't really good at saying the right things to achieve something they believe in.  

- These are actually quite common, words are tricky things and lots of folks are just kinda cranky...

2.  GOP Trolls.  

- A lot has been said about this lifeform, but I don't think many folks really take it as seriously as they should.  If I was in charge of a campaign I could argue very effectively for the prolific use of Trolls (I wouldn't, but that's a philisophical thing, not tactical).  

- Trolling can be very effective, and it would blow my mind if not a single die-hard anti-Democrat Rush-Limbaugh-Frequent-Flyer-Dittoheadin g-Team-Captain in the entire world did not take it into their crowded little head to come to places like this and say things just like that.  

- And it worked;  troll or no troll, it got under your skin and made you repeat the meme...  Think of these things as "WetWare Viruses" that execute in your head.  Proper anti-malware should be loaded into the cerebelum for Safe Surfing (read this comment at least once a week).


by chrisblask 2008-08-23 04:47AM | 0 recs
Re: It isnt' how the campaign or those

I'll tell you Chris, it's getting under my skin because there is a disappointed Clinton supporter who is "not convinced yet" to vote for Obama and these arguments drive people the OTHER DIRECTION.

I would appreciate a suggestion on how it should be handled, because "Get Over It" is something I see a lot in these blogs, and it has a very negative impact.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-23 04:59AM | 0 recs
Assume that every person saying

things like that is actually a Republican who wants to piss you off, and only lying about being a Democrat so they can mess with you.

Odds are you're correct.

by chrisblask 2008-08-23 05:20AM | 0 recs
BTW - your sig

I meant to say earlier, I dig your sig.

Pertinent here, as well:

Trolls are trying to be causal with you.  They do something, drive you in a given direction, it works.

Makes no difference if they wear Democrat clothes to do it, the end is achieved.

Nil Carborundum Illigitimi...

by chrisblask 2008-08-23 05:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

You know who's not disappointed? Hillary Clinton.

"In naming my colleague and friend Senator Joe Biden to be the Vice Presidential nominee, Senator Obama has continued in the best traditions for the Vice Presidency by selecting an exceptionally strong, experienced leader and devoted public servant. Senator Biden will be a purposeful and dynamic Vice President who will help Senator Obama both win the Presidency and govern this great country," she said in an issued statement.

by CrazyDrumGuy 2008-08-23 06:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

That proves nothing, though. What else was she gonna say? Nobody can ever take any meaning from a prepared statement except that it is what they want to convey. If you think they might have any reason to lie at all, no matter how slight, prepared statements are useless.

by vcalzone 2008-08-23 06:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

projecting much?  We have no clue how Hillary really feels.  I prefer to take her at her word.

by temptxan 2008-08-23 07:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

I suspect Hillary would have been the VP pick if she weren't married to Bill. I swear, his ego is beyond belief.

by PhilFR 2008-08-23 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

i agree

by epiphany 2008-08-23 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Yeah, he's nothing but trouble for her.

by Bush Bites 2008-08-23 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?


by skohayes 2008-08-23 03:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

People who worked for Bill back in 1992 sometimes called themselves Clintonistas among themselves.  A lot of Hillary supporters took it too.  It is not a conspiracy theory.

by Skaje 2008-08-23 03:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Do you really?

Sez you.

All right, LISTEN UP, are you little namby pamby boys or are you Clintonistas???  

Uniforms and artillary will be handed out on Tuesday night during ClintonistaFEST!  We're gonna tear the repugs apart!!!

We'll show these Obama soldiers how to plow the road for Barack -- huh!

by mtnspirit 2008-08-23 04:39AM | 0 recs
Re: This Clintonista Salutes Obama-Biden '08

A good personality match with regard to the tendency toward rhetorical expressiveness. Here's hoping it results in a substantial, sustained bounce in the polls.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-08-23 03:58AM | 0 recs
So what geographic area

does Biden bring again? He's from Delaware, a state Barack Obama could carry if his name were Mickey Mouse, but is an unknown to many. Hillary, while not technically from FL, PA, and OH, has large following and name rec in those states, and woulda delivered 2 of them. Its not about pop vote, its electoral, and Biden brings nothing. He's old, and McCain's age was subtly supposed to be his balance to Obama's race, we don't have that now. Biden may help in VA, but that state really is a long shot. I hope the convention delegates do something about this. I'm fuming. No, I'm not gonna blindly support anything this snake oil salesman does or says. After all, weren't we supposed to be the first to know in text messages? Oh yea, he sends them at 3 am.

by Lakrosse 2008-08-23 04:15AM | 0 recs
If you had anything

positive to say, I would have been very surprised.  Thank you for not disappointing me.

by Beltway Dem 2008-08-23 04:20AM | 0 recs
whats wrong with free speech?

this is America after all, not the Obama Nation, YET.

by Lakrosse 2008-08-23 04:24AM | 0 recs
Re: whats wrong with free speech?

That was a very bad thing you called Barack Obama.  I would be FURIOUS if someone made a derogatory remark like that about Hillary.  

I just have to ask, are you really this ANGRY or is it deep disappointment disguised as anger?  Because that is something I could understand.

by mtnspirit 2008-08-23 04:46AM | 0 recs
Re: whats wrong with free speech?

We are getting to a position where people who oppose the nominee will be trolls.  Enjoy the last few days of your free speech.

by Beltway Dem 2008-08-23 05:07AM | 0 recs
Re: whats wrong with free speech?

People who oppose the nominee are called republicans.

by parahammer 2008-08-23 05:19AM | 0 recs
People don't

seem to understand the spite they will receive in years to come.  People who voted for Nader in 2000 are still reviled.  

I agree with you, parahammer.

by Beltway Dem 2008-08-23 05:23AM | 0 recs
Re: So what geographic area

It's not about geography. Remember all those Southern states John Edwards delivered for Kerry?

Geography is the worst reason for a VP pick.

You pick someone who shores up your thematic strengths and balances out concerns in weak spots in your resume. So McCain will pick somebody stronger on the economy. And Obama will pick somebody with more experience and appeal to blue collar white voters. That's how the game works.

Joe Biden is perfectly situated to win over holdouts among blue collar whites in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Missouri.  He's a familiar Irish Catholic who older Democrats feel very comfortable with. And he sponsored the Violence Against Women Act, a signal accomplishment in domestic politics.

by elrod 2008-08-23 04:28AM | 0 recs
he's not "familiar"

as people who don't follow politics do not know who the hell the guy is.

Edwards didn't work for Kerry because Bush was already extremely strong in the south, as he was uber southern. A midwesterner woulda helped him, as Ohio was where the election was won. VP Geography has helped Presidential nominee's win, like Gore helping Clinton in the South, Bush Sr. helping Reagan in the northeast, Mondale in the midwest for Carter, in that OH and WI won 1976 for Carter, both by less the 30000 votes, and most famously, LBJ delivered the south for Catholic Jack Kennedy. Plus, Edwards was a fundamentally weak campaigner.

Biden also does not help with thematic strengths. He has been in Washington for nearly Obama's whole life. He is nowhere close to "Change you can believe in," also that he voted for bankruptcy reform AND iraq. Hillary has only been in Washington for 15 years, less than half of Biden, and nearly half of McCain. She is a woman, so that woulda been "change," as her emphasis on health care woulda been "Change" too. She has perceived experience, Obama's weak point. The economy is still the top issue, and Biden doesn't help there.

by Lakrosse 2008-08-23 04:39AM | 0 recs
Re: he's not "familiar"

Biden is working class Catholic. That is 100% a group Obama needs to make inroads with. Not only that, he has very high positives with older Americans, another group Obama needs. Furthermore, intangibly, he raises Obama's perceived judgment, the experience level of the ticket, and his sarcasm will make him a darling of the media if he's properly trained.

by vcalzone 2008-08-23 04:51AM | 0 recs
two things

Biden brings PA and you're a troll.

by mikeinsf 2008-08-23 10:27AM | 0 recs
just the fact that

Obama needs Biden to pick up PA, a state that is not supposed to be a swing state is sad. Dems have won it the last 4 elections, and Dukakis came very close in 1988 there too. Kerry showed PA alone doesn't win elections: he won it. Biden does not help in FL or OH. If pointing out the truth makes me a troll and being a troll is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

by Lakrosse 2008-08-23 11:07AM | 0 recs
Re: just the fact that

That's the thing, there is no real truth in what you are saying.

Obama's competitive in some states Kerry was not, and has to work a little harder in some states that Kerry got. The map is changing, and Obama is obviously and inherently going to have some difficulties with some segments of the electorate.

Over at 538, Nate's arguing that Biden will help a lot in the states that Obama had most trouble with in the primaries (rust belt), and that Biden's popularity with seniors will be helpful in Florida.  

I know this is a waste of typing. Only Hillary has the magic powers in your world.  Nevertheless, Biden's not a bad pick at all. You can be as sour as you'd like.  I think it's sweet.

by mikeinsf 2008-08-23 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: just the fact that

As a Clintonista, I have to say that I am excited about having Biden on the ticket.  He's wonderful on the campaign trail.  I can't wait to see him on the attack.

by psychodrew 2008-08-23 03:05PM | 0 recs
Re: So what geographic area

Biden's known as "Pennsylvania's third senator."

Check out a map to see what they mean.

by Bush Bites 2008-08-23 07:25PM | 0 recs
Re: This Clintonista Salutes Obama-Biden '08

I am so glad to read this post. I do not understand how  as supporters of Hillary anyone could consider voting for John McCain.  During the Clinton administration John McCain attacked a lovely young innocent woman called Chelsea Clinton.  He said "why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno."  Also check out his "rape" joke.  This man does not respect women and you disrespect Hillary by supporting McCain.  Also check out McCain laughing when one of his supporters called Hillary a "bitch".  and have you ever noticed how Cindy always walks behind him?  

by kjgp25171 2008-08-23 05:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Biden

His son is headed to Iraq.
His wife is a schoolteacher
He is not a multi-millionaire (poorest Senator)
He is from Scranton PA (very important)
Catholic appeals not just to white working class but to many Latinos.

Education is a key issue for many folks:

One of Senator Biden's longstanding priorities is making college more accessible and affordable for students and their families. Recently, he introduced the College Affordability and Creating Chances for Educational Success for Students (ACCESS) Act which would increase tax incentives, expand Pell grants, and begin college planning as early as the eighth grade.

by NeciVelez 2008-08-23 05:48AM | 0 recs
Re: This Clintonista Salutes Obama-Biden '08

It's not up to us to convince anyone.
It will be up to Obama and Biden or Mcrealty/?.

or Barr..Nader. 2g

by nogo postal 2008-08-23 06:52AM | 0 recs
Re: This Clintonista Salutes Obama-Biden '08

It WILL be up to us to GOTV!

by nogo postal 2008-08-23 06:53AM | 0 recs
Three down, one to go.....

Ironically, there is a stunning lack of diversity in what the major parties are serving up this year:

1.Three US fact, the first election is history where two sitting Senators are vying for the Presidency.
2.With an economy in meltdown--maybe the worst since the Great Depression--not one of the three knows anything about economics....the Repub actually admits that "it's not my strong suit"
3.Career legislators: Not one of the three who would be Chief of the Executive Branch has ever managed anything...not even a hardware store. It would be nice to see a managerial skill set in here, somewhere.
4.Career bureaucrats: all three have worked their entire careers in government. No private sector experience, just a long slog through various post in government--be it military, elective office,volunteer work, and so on.

I think it's fair to say that there's nothing really imaginative going on here. And hard to fathom why there isn't any kind of real emphasis on the economy. Maybe there will be a tag team debate sometime in October, when the four ticket mates can have a discussion of who's the most patriotic/strongest when in comes to national defense....special award for the best flag lapel pin.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-08-23 07:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Three down, one to go.....

No African American has ever served as president, and no Catholic has ever served as vice president.  I'm sorry you see no diversity here.  (And if the Senate is an impediment to diversity, what would we have made of Hillary's getting the nod?)

by Beltway Dem 2008-08-23 07:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Three down, one to go.....

To some of us, there's a more important dimension to diversity: skill set, background, experience, and qualifications. While the conventional discussion of diversity doesn't usually extend beyond race, gender, or religious affiliation, I think that discussion is a shallow one, which tells us very little about how someone will govern.

by BJJ Fighter 2008-08-23 08:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Three down, one to go.....

You dead enders always have some answer.  There is no reasoning with you.  Maybe it's time you moved on since you refuse to heal.

by Beltway Dem 2008-08-23 08:20AM | 0 recs
There are people such as yourself

who would like to see someone from a different field entirely be the candidate.  Unfortunately, there are so few that they would never win.

And there are those who would like to see a black man and a woman on the ticket but again, not enough to push that ticket to a win.

All of us have opinions that vary in some way from the majority opinion but in politics, we don't usually prevail.  For me this time, actually the first time ever, my first two choices have been named.  And today is my birthday.  It's like a special birthday present for me :D.  So, even if you are disappointed you can take some comfort in knowing there is a grandmother out there with a smile on her face on her birthday.

by GFORD 2008-08-23 08:24AM | 0 recs
Re: There are people such as yourself
Well, thanks for sharing that, and happy birthday! It must be a great feeling, and here's hoping you savor and enjoy every minute of it.
by BJJ Fighter 2008-08-23 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: There are people such as yourself

A very happy birthday to you.

by whognu 2008-08-23 09:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Three down, one to go.....

To some of us, there's a more important dimension to diversity: skill set, background, experience, and qualifications.

I think Obama/Biden is a diverse ticket according to the qualifications you've set out.  While some tout this as a negative, one of the things I like about Obama is that he isn't someone who was molded by the Washington culture.  He's a senator, yes, but he's not someone who made his career in the Senate (he simply hasn't been in DC for that long).  

That's not unique but it is unusual.  Of the 15 candidates who made a bid for the presidency since 1960, by my count 12 were people who had made their careers in DC first (the exceptions being Clinton, Reagan, and Carter).  I'm counting the current president among the ranks of DC careerists, btw, because while on paper his stepping stone to the White House was being governor of Texas it's pretty obvious he rose as a legacy).

Biden, of course, has been a politician in DC for 36 years (and if elected VP, curiously, might turn out to be the occupant of the executive branch who has the most experience in the federal government, as measured by years of service, ever, though I'd want to confirm that).

Background?  Put the whole race issue aside, and Obama has one of the most unusual biographies of anyone who has run for president.  While I'd have to confirm this, think he'd be the first president who had a parent who was not an American citizen.  He'd be one of the few who had spent years living abroad.  He'd be the first president who grew up in a state where caucasians were not a majority (which might not sound like much now, but issues like this will become a much bigger deal during the next few decades).

Biden is interesting because he seems to be one of the few politicians at his level today who actually grew up poor (not unique in historical terms, certainly, but very unusual, esp. if one think about the sorts of people in politics today).

Between 1960-84 of nine presidential aspirants only two attended elite universities (JFK and Carter, I'm thinking of the ivies and service academies).  Since 1988, of the nine presidential aspirants eight attended elite universities (and that includes the two at the top of the ticket this year).  In an odd way, I like the fact that Biden was a C student at Syracuse Law School.

As for their respective skill sets, think both would have to get elected before we could make any big judgments, but on the surface to me they seem complimentary (Obama is the idea guy, Biden the one who knows how stuff gets done, this is less mentor/protege than architect/foreman, and not at all like the current one).

by IncognitoErgoSum 2008-08-23 10:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Three down, one to go.....

I would just remind you that dumbaya has a degree in Bus Admin (I think, correct me if I am wrong please)(C student, by "gentlemen C's", nevertheless) and a "managerial" background before he bought, uh, was elected Texas Gov. Of course all the companies his daddy set-up for him, he ran right into the ground. an "oil man" who never pumped a I think you might not have as much of a point as you imagine. Not that you don't have a point, just not ,IMO, an over-riding one.

by zerosumgame 2008-08-24 01:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Three down, one to go.....

So, you'd like another "MBA President" with private sector experience, like Bush?

by Bush Bites 2008-08-23 07:29PM | 0 recs
I support the BO/Biden ticket

But think the Biden pick was a bad choice, and doesn't shore up the key issue, the economy.

by Chelsea in 2020 2008-08-23 08:47AM | 0 recs
This Clintonista agrees!

Biden was a good choice.  I have a great deal of respect for him.

by psychodrew 2008-08-23 10:28AM | 0 recs
Not running with Hillary is a big roll of the dice

If he wins by a small margin or if, god forbid he loses, then it will go down as the biggest political mistake in the last 70+ years.

I like Biden but he does not give you what Hillary would have. She is every bit, if not more, respected by the generals then Biden. She has more foreign contacts then McCain, Obama and Biden.

Obama went out of his way not to choose the most qualified candidate who also earned about 50%support in the party.

Biden in 2008: "Obama is not qualified to be commander-in-chief"

Biden is smart but he is another boring white guy who is much more conservative then Hillary. She got screwed. Her crime is being female not being married to the last sucessful Democratic president. Had the situation been reversed she would have chosen Obama as the first black VP. He wasn't so nice or fair. Now its all on him.

by mmorang 2008-08-23 11:33AM | 0 recs
I'm sorry but these guys look boring together and

they both looked bored.

If they lose there will be no spinning this or pointing blame on the Clintons. It's Obama's show. He either gets the job done or he (along with the genuises in the Democratic leadership)goes down as the biggest loser of all time.

Yes, he has my vote but if he wanted to win over Hillary's many voters he should have chosen her.

by mmorang 2008-08-23 11:43AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm sorry but these guys look boring together

That's cool.  It's your vote.  Whatever.

by mikeinsf 2008-08-23 02:57PM | 0 recs
Now McCain will put a female on the ticket

Kay Bailey or the ex-ceo of ebay in attempt to win over the female voters Obama shunned.

by mmorang 2008-08-23 11:45AM | 0 recs
You cannot voice mild decent on this cite any more

or someone/anyone can delete your comments for ANY reason just becuase they disagree. How sad. I could understand deleting offensive comments but to delete an opposing view just becuase if offends your personal world view is pathetic. This isn't communist China is it? How pathetic!

by mmorang 2008-08-23 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: this cite

Republicans are not welcome to come here and post their "opposing views." This is a Democratic website.

What's pathetic is your desperate spamming in support of McCain. Not to mention your whining.

by BobzCat 2008-08-23 02:56PM | 0 recs
Hi, Hyperbole

Am I missing something?  Are the secret police going to arrest you?  As far as I can tell, some posters are saying you and your arguments are annoying or ridiculous.  Hardly police state tactics.

by mikeinsf 2008-08-23 03:00PM | 0 recs
How the hell can you say that

in the third divisive, undeleted comment in a row??

by Neef 2008-08-23 03:47PM | 0 recs
Re: This Clintonista Salutes Obama-Biden '08

I'd love it if McCain tapped Hutchison.  Have no idea what she's like in real life, but she comes off as older than her 65 years (and, well, that's great, it would be like running against the couple in "American Gothic").  

by IncognitoErgoSum 2008-08-23 02:45PM | 0 recs
Re: This Clintonista Salutes Obama-Biden '08

It'll be somebody from the Rust Belt or with Rust Belt roots, like Mitt.

McCain's obviously targeting Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, maybe Minnesota...

He seems to have almost given up on the Northwest.

by Bush Bites 2008-08-23 07:34PM | 0 recs
Biden is a mix of Edwards/Hillary/McCain

In a good way.  

Biden brings the populist rhetoric of Edwards; the strong debater and attack dog mentality of Hillary Clinton; and the foreign policy credentials, personal narrative involving overcoming tragic adversity, and the straight talking like-ability of the old John McCain.  

I'm thoroughly impressed with the pick and the Obama-Biden ticket.  I wasn't sold on Biden before, but I am now, after having watch his impassioned and fiery acceptance speech today.

by ProfessorReo 2008-08-23 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden is a mix of Edwards/Hillary/McCain

I always liked Joe, I just never saw him as a president.

He'd be a great Vice President, tho.

by Bush Bites 2008-08-23 07:35PM | 0 recs


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