ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

This is a story gaining traction on the blogs and now on ABC News. It is about obama's comments on Hillary and her "emotions." Sadly, another statement was made earlier about Hilary having her claws out.-

"You challenge the status quo and suddenly the claws come out."
http://roxanne.typepad.com/rantrave/2008 /02/the-claws-come.html

Hillary is ridiculed by Matthews for the way she claps. When she goes to a debate or to the Sneate floor comments are made about her showing "cleavage" or wearing an "off jacket." Whether you like Hillary or not clealry such comments are not productive-at minimum. Andrea Mitchell yesterday found his remarks to be way off the mark and expects more about this one.

I, and many others today call for an apaology from Obama's campaign for such remarks. Hillary has to apologize for critiquing Obama etc.. Let's hope as a party that Hillary does not lose the nomination because of her sex. Tat would have lasting terribe damage to the democrats...

----------------------
Is Obama Using Sexist Language?
February 16, 2008 11:30 AM

video-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qNpeGPdh Ew

Earlier this month, speaking at Tulane University, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, said this about the attacks coming his way from Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY:

"You challenge the status quo and suddenly the claws come out," Obama said.

The CLAWS come out? Really?

Then yesterday Obama told reporters who had asked about Clinton's latest attack ad, "I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she's feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal."

That prompted some female TV reporters to question the language he was using.

According to this unofficial transcript, over at MSNBC, Andrea Mitchell and Norah O'Donnell seemed to suggest Obama may have been -- if not playing the gender card, then using language women voters might find offensive.

Language such as "when she's feeling down""periodically" she "launches attacks."

Nora O'Donnell: "He said, 'I understand when she's down, that she makes these kinds of attacks.' It's getting a little personal."

Andrea Mitchell: "It's getting a little personal and, very frankly, you know how deeply we interpreted every comment to look for some sort of racial motivation before South Carolina. A lot of people said it was there. But, you know, when you start describing a female candidate as being 'down' and 'striking back,'  I don't know, that's a little edgy, don't you think?"

Nora O'Donnell: "Yeah. And I think there's gonna be a lot more comments about that."*

Pro-Clinton blogger Taylor Marsh writes that words like this, in her view, indicate "a way of thinking about women. A way of demeaning women in power; even saying we're not up to the job. Seriously, Senator Hillary Clinton is a woman running for president. Not some emotional menopausal diva popping pills because she's depressed she broke a nail."

"Claws"..."feeling down"...I find it hard to envision Obama using the same language if he were facing, say, former Sen. John Edwards, D-NC.

But what do you think?

-- jpt

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/ 2008/02/is-obama-using.html
February 16, 2008

Tags: 2008, Hillary, obama (all tags)

Comments

100 Comments

Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks
TalkLeft's BigTent asks for Oabma apology for such remarks:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/2/16/ 103052/528
by art3 2008-02-16 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: I sure hope he doesn't apologize

Let me just put it to you this way ,

Just like Obama and his supporters saw racist code words or racism when Obama was called inexperience , young , naive , there are also code words that are directed at woman .

And Obama has come dangerously close with what he said and the context in which he said it , because that is exactly the context in which these code words are used.

For O Donnel and Andrea Mitchell who are not Clinton supporters to point it out , you should know it is  resonating.

I am not going to accuse him with anything but you would be wise not to dismiss it out of hand.

Just like racism is still an issue in the society , so is sexism.

Obama should be a little more tactful

by lori 2008-02-16 09:53AM | 0 recs
Re: I sure hope he doesn't apologize

Only someone incredibly stupid would draw those conclusions.  We are talking George Bush Stupid.

by yitbos96bb 2008-02-16 11:25AM | 0 recs
Obama must be A LOT more tactful

by Shazone 2008-02-16 12:16PM | 0 recs
I hope he doesn't apologize either

In fact, I'd like his campaign to feel that they are absolutely bulletproof.  The more ammunition he gives to opponents the happier I am.

by lombard 2008-02-16 12:22PM | 0 recs
Re: I sure hope he doesn't apologize

Someone's head is up you-know-where.

by susanhu 2008-02-16 01:57PM | 0 recs
objectively

I think it's bs.

BUT,

if the PC police are on the case for "fairytale", "clean", "young and articulate", and "kid",

then they should make some noise here.

I'm just hoping that as a result of this election some of the Obama people come to their senses and realize their wrong ways.  It's wrong to play the race card, and it's wrong for the media to choose a candidate.

The bottom line message is:

REPEAL MCCAIN FEINGOLD and all other campaign reforms, have full discolosure and allow people to spend freely or donate freely as they wish.  We need this because this media is the biggest influence in the race.

Imagine if Clinton could go to her big donors for funds. This would be a fair fight.

by yellowdem1129 2008-02-16 09:21AM | 0 recs
Re: objectively

"Imagine if Clinton could go to her big donors for funds. This would be a fair fight."

That's pretty much how all the Republicans feel. You know it's not fair to shut rich people and lobbyists out of the process. Why should they have to get the same lousy couple of bucks of representation as your average slob when they can afford so much more! Like Hillary said lobbyists represent people to. Now we have the rabble all donating there 20 or 30 dollars and they are eclipsing the voice of the big money fat cats. It's not fair!

Lets just have the super delegates, big money donors and corporations make the call you can't have all these inexperienced peons screwing up the process. Democracy is way over rated.

by hankg 2008-02-16 10:12AM | 0 recs
Re: objectively

Well, I tend to agree with you that it's really more a**holish than sexist. Obama talks down to everybody when he's not speechifying. And yes, if everything is going to be "racist" then everything might as well be "sexist" too.

by Ga6thDem 2008-02-16 11:27AM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Hillary certainly won't lose because of her gender. If anything it's an advantage since in most of these contests 60% of the Democratic electorate is women and she is winning most of them.

by Progressive America 2008-02-16 09:24AM | 0 recs
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!

my, is this comment any different from the "Jesse Jackson in South Carolina" remark?  and if so, please, tell me how.

So I guess it's not the least bit possible that she is the better candidate but more women than men are able to overcome gender bias?

Oh, no.  It just must be that women are stampeding to support her like stupid cows only because she's a woman.

I see, Progressive Anerica.  I see just how progressive you are.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-02-16 05:04PM | 0 recs
Re: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!

defensive, much?

i think it more likely he meant because it's unlikely women have a bias against themselves, and the democratic electorate is 60% women.

theoretically leaving only 40% with a possibility of sexism, and since it's hopefully a minority that means it shouldnt have a massive effect.

by falseintellect 2008-02-16 08:21PM | 0 recs
It's amazing...

...how people can rationalize things. "Periodically" is now a sexist word?

LOL!

by Mystylplx 2008-02-16 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: It's amazing...

How about inexperience being a racist word .

or naive , or young , or fairy tale.

At some point , the same people making the case  that those were racist code words have to deal with the reality that supporters of other candidates can also make the case when the shoe is on the other foot.

I personally don't know what his intentions are but the remark could be interpreted to mean certain things especially with women.

We hear similar things like that , oh is that time of the month etc .

I am not willing to categorize what he said but I certainly know why some may feel a certain way.

by lori 2008-02-16 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: It's amazing...

I don't think the fairytale comment was racist and don't really understand why some have said so, so I take your point.

by Mystylplx 2008-02-16 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: It's amazing...

Sadly it's too late. Bill Clinton has been painted as a white racist and LBJ as a weak Texas pol that stood around with his thumb up his ass during the civil rights struggle. Great job of disappearing our past Mr. Axelrod. The Republicans should give you a reward of some sort.

Sure works as a tactic though.

by jabney 2008-02-16 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: It's amazing...

Now I'm on your side but that boy didn't say anything was racist did he? Just the overly sensitive blacks right?

by LewHallam 2008-02-16 01:11PM | 0 recs
Re: It's amazing...

Watch a tampon commercial.

You'll see almost exactly the same "vague" words.

by Sensible 2008-02-16 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Let's see

Read this. Read it all. Every word.

http://www.womensmediacenter.com/ex/0201 08.html

by georgiast 2008-02-16 09:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Let's see

I've read it. Some of what's mentioned there really is sexist, most of it is just normal politics. If Al Gore were a woman I suppose some people would claim it was sexist to talk about how 'stiff' he was, or talk of Kerry's 'metrosexuality' would be sexist if Kerry were a woman. Or how about Obama's ears? Sexism!

by Mystylplx 2008-02-16 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Creeping word cancer

I'm tempted to find a Hillary quote where she uses the phrase "black and white" or even just uses the word "race." (as in "we're in this race to win.") and then put up the quote with the offending words in bold while suggesting she had some racist implication.

But then I'd prefer not to sink to that level.

by Mystylplx 2008-02-16 11:12AM | 0 recs
Give it a rest

It's a stretch to say these comments are even offensive at all. This thing has gone to ridiculous levels, on both sides.

by animated 2008-02-16 09:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Give it a rest

No it is not.

These ladies on obama's network are certainly not going to do anything to the protected one unless they feel something has gone wrong.

I guarantee you if that video goes into the mainstream of american political life , a sizeable majority of people , especially women would not think it was a strech.

But I don't think he was trying to be sexist , it was just not a well thought of statement.

Very childish.

by lori 2008-02-16 09:37AM | 0 recs
This barely deserves a response.

Come on, people.

by bigdcdem 2008-02-16 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: This barely deserves a response.

Come on, what?  How old are you people? Women are unlikely to forget the constant refrain of a just a couple decades ago that women are unfit to fill jobs like that of airline pilot, school bus driver, corporate CEO, physician, lawyer, etc., because their raging monthly hormones, or PERIODS, would interfere with their judgment.

I about fell off my chair when I heard Obama say that so blatantly. And the fact that he hesitated, every so slightly, before slyly using the word "periodically"  made it crystal clear that he was reviving that old sexist canard.  It was deliberate on his part, and he knew damn well that he was impugning HRC's capacity for judgment "periodically" and suggesting his audience should do the same.  

by miriam 2008-02-16 10:24AM | 0 recs
I really don't want to think he meant it that way

But jeez, what a choice of words.  It really makes me wonder.

by Montague 2008-02-16 11:52AM | 0 recs
Re:he meant it that way

It should make everyone wonder. This is the great Obama...wonderful speaker...man of powerful words...the man who knows what words can do and the meanings they can hold...the brilliant orator.

There is no way that he was not aware of the words he was saying and the power they had to demean.

by americanincanada 2008-02-16 01:21PM | 0 recs
I fear you are right

by Montague 2008-02-16 07:16PM | 0 recs
I think he did.

He knew exactly how offensive and at the same time easily defensible it would be. But he chose the word carefully I'm sure. He stumbles in his speaking for the same reason Bush does.

by JimR 2008-02-16 03:25PM | 0 recs
Sadly, I think you're right

Not sad that you are right, but sad that he would do that.

by Montague 2008-02-16 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: This barely deserves a response.

You put that boy in his place!

by LewHallam 2008-02-16 01:09PM | 0 recs
I barely did.

by bigdcdem 2008-02-18 08:03AM | 0 recs
Not Obama's finest moment.

by vj 2008-02-16 10:14AM | 0 recs
Funny,

that's what the Bush administration and REPUBLICANS always say when they're caught with their hand in the cookie jar or in some other nefarious activity.

No use denying it - if you're a Democrat you're aware of that - and you know it's true. How many times have progressive bloggers railed about the republican deflection known as, "Nothing to see here, move along, Democrats are just trying to make political points." And now that's exactly what you're doing.

The way so-called Democrats so easily resort to rightwing framing and rightwing arguments in order to promote Obama and to "win" is truly alarming.

by Firefly4625 2008-02-16 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Give me a freakin' break.  Every weekend you Hillary supporters try to pull out some stupid issue like this.  Its disgusting.  

by Toddwell 2008-02-16 10:47AM | 0 recs
If you're a male

and you're here arguing that Obama's remarks are NOT SEXIST (and are not a pattern of sexism, by the way), then you're just PROVING your sexism.

Why? For those here who are still too obtuse to get it, let me explain:

Men who think they can tell WOMEN what is and what isn't sexist is SEXIST.

by Firefly4625 2008-02-16 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: If you're a male

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism

Sexism is commonly considered to be discrimination and/or hatred towards people based on their sex rather than their individual merits, but can also refer to any and all systemic differentiations based on the sex of the individuals.

Sexism can refer to subtly different beliefs or attitudes:

The belief that one gender or sex is inferior to or more valuable than the other;
Female or male chauvinism
The attitude of misogyny (hatred of females) or misandry (hatred of males); as well as
The attitude of imposing a limited and/or false notion of masculinity on males and a limited and/or false notion of femininity on females, or vice versa.
A feeling of distrust towards the opposite or same sex, most frequently operating at an unconscious level.

In other words, your comment is blatently and absurdly sexist.

by Mystylplx 2008-02-16 12:51PM | 0 recs
Let me make this perfectly clear...

You, if you are male, DO NOT get to tell ME, a female, what is or is not a sexist remark that a man said made about a woman. Period.

by Firefly4625 2008-02-16 01:27PM | 0 recs
Let me make this perfectly clear...

That's the most unbelievably sexist comment I've ever heard on MYDD. Period.

According to your philosophy only women get to declare sexism and only men are the guilty parties.

Try to learn a little about sexism. It will help you as a woman to understand that it doesn't work that way.

I thought MollieBradford was the most sexist human on this blog--but you have just displaced her.

by Mystylplx 2008-02-17 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: If you're a male

Gee but white Hillary supporters had no problem telling black people what was and wasn't racist. Funny.

by illlaw1 2008-02-16 01:00PM | 0 recs
You're pathetic

by Firefly4625 2008-02-16 01:28PM | 0 recs
the claws come out? what a load of shit

this isn't sexist, that's just stupid

by Lazeriath 2008-02-16 10:57AM | 0 recs
Disagree

It was a very odd idiom for him to use at that point.  Stupid?  Maybe.  But that would make him pretty stupid.  Which would make him a bad choice for president.

by Montague 2008-02-16 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Disagree

Better than someone who voted to go to war in Iraq based on the propaganda from the WH and not the actual intelligence reports. I mean if the bar is as low as you say then HRC sure ain't qualified.

by illlaw1 2008-02-16 12:59PM | 0 recs
Was I talking about a bar?

Iraq isn't the be-all and end-all of this election.  

by Montague 2008-02-16 07:19PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Apparently Senator Obama has a little trouble with women.He even makes fun of his own dead mother for being "weepy" when he achieved something. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/ 22543290#22543290.  See www.publius2008.com.  

by publius2008 2008-02-16 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

So Obama speaks lovingly of his mother and wishes that she could be her to share his success, and you choose to say he has a problem with women?  

I got a double major in Sociology ans Women's Studies back in the 80's, but I think you have really gone overboard here.  IMHO it is your own sexist stereotypes about women's emotionalism that cause you to interpret his very personal remarks about his mother as a "problem with women."  This is absurd.

Oh, by the way, I am a man.  The first man to graduate from the Women's Studies program at my University.

by upper left 2008-02-16 11:17AM | 0 recs
You do not

get to tell women how to feel or what to believe about things that have been said about women - how macho or sexist or dim-witted do you have to be to not get that?

by Firefly4625 2008-02-16 01:32PM | 0 recs
Re: You do not

So you get to tell Obama what to feel about his own mother?

Does it occur to you that you are being more than a bit presumptuous?

So you get to impugn my motives, and the motives of all the millions of men and women who prefer Obama. It is difficult to have a reasonable exchange of ideas with someone who starts with an assumption that I am acting in bad faith.

If you want respect, try offering a little to other people.

by upper left 2008-02-16 09:56PM | 0 recs
huh?
is this a joke? this can't be taken seriously.
by supsupsup 2008-02-16 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

When I heard Obama say "I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she's feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal" I cringed.

Men don't "feel" down ... women do.  This is how it's perceived in society.  Obama once again gives voice to the base attitudes that still pervade our discourse.

by Sieglinde 2008-02-16 11:16AM | 0 recs
Good catch

The word "feel" caught my attention, too.  

Feeling down = emotional (i.e., hostage to one's emotions) = unfit to be a leader.

by Montague 2008-02-16 11:55AM | 0 recs
That's ridiculous.

Feel is obviously a code word, men can't have feelings. You're joking right? So he can't say that Clinton feels anything? He can't say a word which simply means regularly?

Claws come out could be construed as sexist, but it is a stretch. It is relatively common colloquialism.

by Obama08 2008-02-16 12:35PM | 0 recs
Of course men can feel

But in our society, men don't like to be referred to as "having feelings."  It is considered feminine, i.e., bad or weak.

My objection was to the idiom that was used and how it was used.

Men also don't want to be seen as "feeling down" - they prefer to be described as angry or mad than depressed.

Please - this is a generalization - I realize it doesn't apply to all men.  Just to the overarching sense of maleness in our society.

by Montague 2008-02-16 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Good catch

The man has been accused of running his campaign on feelings and now feelings are sexist? Come on.

by illlaw1 2008-02-16 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Men don't feel down? Says who?

by illlaw1 2008-02-16 12:57PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Does it occur to any of you who are offended that Obama may be referring to HRC feeling down "politically," rather than feeling down "emotionally?"  

Perhaps it is your own sexist assumptions that are causing you to read his comment in the manner that you have.

Oh, by the way, before you assume I am a sexist jerk, I have a degree in Women's Studies (double major in WS and Sociology}.  I was the first man to graduate from the program in the early 80s.

I agree that HRC has been on the receiving end of a lot of sexist and misogynistic garbage.  I understand why many of her supporters are rightfully offended by these comments both overt and subtle.  However, it is offensive to many of us who prefer Obama to be told that we are assumed to sexist.  There are many good, non-sexist reasons to prefer Obama.  

I suggest that everyone try to be sensitive to the sensibilities of the other side and not be too quick to impugn each others motives.  Hopefully we are all going to be working together for one candidate in a few weeks or months.

by upper left 2008-02-16 11:30AM | 0 recs
political vs emotional

I'm sure that is the case. Obama doesn't strike me as the kind to make gratuitously sexist remarks. It seems like he has a very high opinion of the women in his life and that this would probably extend to women in general. But this should if nothing else remind him that the press is NEVER on anyone's side except their own.

by highgrade 2008-02-16 11:55AM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

If he meant "down polticially" then he should have said that. he chose to use the words the way he did.

Obama is not a stupid man and he is a man who understand words and their power to uplift or demean. He knew what he was doing.

by americanincanada 2008-02-16 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Don't assume the worst

Cnandidates say thousands and thousands of words a day.  Sometimes they mispeak, or as in this case, pause in a way that perhaps implies a meaning that is not intended.

I am simply suggesting that it does not make sense to assume the worst, when the worst is inconsistent with Obama's stated values and generally respectful manner.  

I assume that HRC's supporters are not racist until they give some real evidence to the contrary.  I think you should extend the same civility to those of us who prefer Obama.

by upper left 2008-02-17 06:38AM | 0 recs
again

This is nothing but the media deciding they need to start piling on Obama for a bit. He got easier treatment for a couple of weeks. Now it's his turn to go through the fire. First it is all of these articles talking about the "cult" of Obama supporters. Now he is a sexist pig. And tomorrow it will be whether he really is a Muslim, etc.

by highgrade 2008-02-16 11:42AM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Jack Tapper and Taylor Marsh are both dumb as fuck and you should disregard everything they write or risk your own intellgience.

This is just CRAZY.

by beanbagz 2008-02-16 11:49AM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

THIS IS WHAT OBAMABOTS ARE, FOLKS.

Namecallers whose life blood it is to say disgusting, derisive, demeaning things about others.

You have no class and you know no shame. You are an Obamabot.

by Firefly4625 2008-02-16 01:42PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

This is total BS. God, this is the stuff that makes people HATE hillary.

by mecarr 2008-02-16 11:55AM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

It's also the stuff that make people doubt she is strong enough to be President and Commander in Chief.  My God if the term "the claws come out", scares her and offends her so much that it is deemed sexist, it makes a lot of people wonder if she will claim sexism when our Arab allies dismiss and patronize her.  Yea...that bodes well for the future of our nation with Muslim countries.  

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-02-16 12:06PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Your response is ridiculous.  No one has suggested that HRC herself is upset about Senator Obama's unfortunate choice of words that can easily be read as sexist.  Instead, some of her supporters - and other women - are bothered by his word choice; some of us are even more concerned when his supporters dismiss his use of implicitly sexist language as "nothing."  

It wasn't nothing.  Is he sexist?  I doubt it.  Could he have simply misspoken?  Well, maybe.  Would he have ever said that about John Edwards?  Let's try it:

"Sometimes, you know, when John is feeling... down, you know, periodically, the claws come out and he attacks to boost his appeal."   (Note: I inserted "the claws come out" to make this more clear.)

And no, no.  He would not have said that about John Edwards, not because John Edwards would never attack Obama, but because John Edwards is male.  

This is what Obama said:

"I understand that Senator Clinton periodically, when she's feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal."

What Obama Really Meant ("WORM") per y'all, is:

"Senator Clinton is behind at the moment; of course she is going to go on the offensive.  I expected this, it's part of the campaign."

While I agree that that is the surface truth of WORM, you are ignoring the subtext.  You see, Senator Clinton, she is a woman.  She's "feeling down" - because women are emotional.  Do you really want an emotional woman running the country? - and so she is launching attacks (crazy shrew, you know how they get), in a vain attempt to boost her appeal.

Maybe he didn't mean it; maybe he was searching for words, and those were the only ones that came.  But when you watch the clip, it's quite clear that he is saying that sharply and deliberately, choosing his words with care.  At the very least, it's patronizing; but most women - who have experienced similar issues and incidents - will read it much differently.  

by mgee 2008-02-16 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

While we are playing substitution games, try this one.

What if Bill Clinton was up on the stage wagging his finger saying:

I understand that Michelle Obama periodically, when she's feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal."

Can you imagine?!!

by MediaFreeze 2008-02-16 01:10PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

She's a black. You know she has that "attitude" people wouldn't be surprised if she got all mad and attacked. Head rolling on her neck. Eyes rolling in her head. All of that. She's from the hood unlike her prep school husband.

by LewHallam 2008-02-16 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Why are you doing this?

Do you think taking such an aggressive position helps with your arguement?

My post is not about being black or white. It is about how the media is operating with a clear double standard, and the effect that that has had on the political discourse.

What would you be saying right now if Bill Clinton had said the same thing about Michelle Obama?

It's a fair question.

by MediaFreeze 2008-02-16 01:37PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Another thought on your post.

You complain about people using "attitude" as a code word to disparage blacks. I agree that is terrible.

If Hillary Clinton had said something like:

I understand that Senator Obama, periodically when he's got some attitude, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost his appeal.

...that would be horrible.

So, why can't you see that his use of the code words "feelings" and "periodically" might not upset women.

It seems to me that you have rather elegantly made the point.

by MediaFreeze 2008-02-16 01:43PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

"Periodically" is sexist?  Dear God, what have we come to?

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-02-16 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

OK forget "periodically" which in this context I do think is sexist, but leaving that aside "feelings" is definately a code word.

by MediaFreeze 2008-02-16 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Wow.  dissemble much?  The point remains, imagining sexism where none exists is really unattractive in any candidate.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-02-16 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Is that an answer? Because I didn't get it.

How would you be reacting if Bill Clinton had said those words about Michelle Obama?

by MediaFreeze 2008-02-16 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Except, I just told you why many women read those words as sexist, and your only response is that I am lying.  I'm not.  Watch the video.  Would he have said that about Edwards?  In that tone?  No.

Moreover, no one has suggested that HRC herself is "imagining sexism" in that remark.  Jiminy Christmas.  I'm sure she hasn't heard about it; and if she does, she won't say anything, because y'all don't like it when women point out sexist subtext, as is clear from the negative responses in this thread.  

by mgee 2008-02-16 02:09PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

y'all"  
 Pardon my ignorance, I was born and raised in San Francisco,  I now live here 8 months out of the year, and 4 in Manhattan.  My provincial and obviously sexist upbringing doesn't understand the term you use...

Y'all

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-02-16 03:34PM | 0 recs
Can you imagine if Bill Clinton...

said the he understood the periodically when Michelle Obama was feeling down that she launches attacks as a way of ahh trying to boost her... boost her appeal...

Can you imagine?

by MediaFreeze 2008-02-16 12:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Can you imagine if Bill Clinton...

sorry for the double post, but I wanted to add this thought to mcgee's great comment above too.

And, I second the impression that this was not some slip of the tounge. Obama chose his words carefully and deliberately. This was a crafted message. Look again at the way he pauses and his expression when he says "periodically."

by MediaFreeze 2008-02-16 01:14PM | 0 recs
This is remarkably ridiculous.

I'm sorry, there are plenty of people who launch sexist attacks on Hillary. You haven't shown such an attack from Obama yet. The claws come out is a relatively common phrase saying that someone is striking out. Periodically refers to with some regularity or from time to time. If anything relating to "period" is sexist do Obama supporters need to give up punctuation?

by Obama08 2008-02-16 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Where's the sexist language? Arguably the claws thing could be tilted towards women but my aggressively feminist SO didn't think that when she read it.

As far as feeling down I'm not sure how that's sexist at all. Is "feeling" a sexist code word or is "down"?

If those are sexist then there can be no doubt in anyone's mind that the Clinton's went racist on Obama.

by illlaw1 2008-02-16 12:55PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Listen to the smugness of his voice and how deliberately "...periodically..." is voiced and used in this context. Thats what did it for me.

This is "you're likable enough" taken to a whole new level. Watch out.

by Scan 2008-02-16 12:56PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Uppity ain't he?

by LewHallam 2008-02-16 01:07PM | 0 recs
Oh go to hell.

you think you're helping anyone with a remark like that?

by Scan 2008-02-16 01:12PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

No, just being an arrogant jerk.  Arrogant jerkiness knows no color - or are you postulating that African Americans are somehow different, and incapable of being jerks?

Please do enlighten us. Because last I heard, all people of all races are capable of being arrogant or snide or otherwise snotty.  It has not in my experience been defined as a solely Caucasian trait.

Unless you are just blowing smoke out your butt and trying to make people feel guilty for criticizing the ineffable one, and equating criticism with racism.  There seems to be a lot of that going around, and it is becoming transparently ridiculous.  

by WMCB 2008-02-16 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

It's that "attitude" that they have coming out again.

by LewHallam 2008-02-16 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: And besides

what the hell are you even talking about?

by Scan 2008-02-16 01:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama is a Sexist Pig

Cleary he's sexist. He's a black man. They're raised to be a) sexist (see all the single mothers) and b) to call everything racist. We've seen both from this "brother" haven't we?

by LewHallam 2008-02-16 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

Claws? Really? That's the best you can do? My tomcat has claws. And a bite on him, too. Claws is a gendered concept? Give it up.

Here's what you need to do: repeal campaign finance reform. Have the Clintons collect millions from lobbyists and special interests. Then use that money to hire some media consultants to come up with some better slander.

by EMTP democrat 2008-02-16 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...

New attacks please.  This whole "Hillary is a victim thing" is starting to get old on this site.  

by IowaCubs 2008-02-16 01:37PM | 0 recs
Reaching!

People were stretching the limit when they overreacted to some of the supposed racist comments and they're stretching now, not to say that things haven't been said that weren't sexist or racist.  As a woman, it's embarrassing to see this taken out of context.

by venavena 2008-02-16 03:37PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks


one of Obama's  comments, I think before Iowa caucuses went like this about Hillary  -
'STRESSED OUT' because their poll numbers are down.

could be poor choice of words from Obama.

by BlueSea 2008-02-16 03:58PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

You see, these are the perils of taking political correctness to the extreme and misinterpreting it to push an agenda.  By the time we finish this primary, half the words in the dictionary will have been recognized as sexist or racist in nature.

by venavena 2008-02-16 04:02PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks


Yeah right.

These Hillary Zealots taking it to exteme going for sterile conversations.

If David Shuster didnt slip his mind in words
we would not have these color commentary in the conversation. it gets too bland with out them.

People have the audacity to go for political
correctness for using 'Pimping out' comment.
Most of them used the word in their conversations
against some one if it is not related to their
own mom,sister or wife.

by BlueSea 2008-02-16 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

 I mean if it is not related to their own folks
who cares who call names right?
by BlueSea 2008-02-16 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

That's not what I said.  I didn't say that I don't think that some of the things said don't have any legitimacy to them, b/c I certainly do.  I just think that it's gotten to the point that people are overanalyzing, as in this case.  The "pimping out" comment is another story in itself.

by venavena 2008-02-16 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC, Obama, Sexist Remarks

OK, all done.   This place used to be cool.  
What happened?  
How does this piece earn "recommended" status with such flimsy, wet paper thin analysis?

I am starting to see the MyDD Clinton "movement" take a new shape and it doesn't look pretty.  

logs off

by haystax calhoun 2008-02-16 04:44PM | 0 recs
Same shat, different millenium

It would seem to me that a true progressive would be interested in better understanding why members of a long oppressed "minority" take offense to a particular statement.

Back in the day, I thought the term "PC" was used by CONSERVATIVES to disparage and ridicule members of the Women's Rights and Civil Rights movement.  Now, apparrently, progressives have become the new champions in the fight against poltical correctness.  Hmmmm.  Don't sign me up.

It's fascinating watching the verbal gymnastics on this thread.  Don't accuse all Obama supporters of being racist when clearly no one did.  Nevermind how  comments equally innocuous when taken out of context are inflamatory signs of embedded racism while these comments are harmless and meaningless.
Let's not talk about that.  Let's all just pretend that "claws out" is not sexually coded because, ain't I clever, tom cats have claws too.

Welcome to the the new progressive movement, change is gonna happen indeed.  

And whining.  Everytime a Clinton supporter objects to anything it's not complaining or debating or arguing, it's whining.  Nothing BUT whining.  Nothing to see here, folks, just a bunch of sore losers whining.

Dismissive, degrading, insulting, disgusting -- sexism isn't real because a bunch of us guys got together and decided it isn't.  You're too sensitive, you're too emotional, stop whining and make me a sandwhich.

Same shat, different millenium.  Welcome to the great new awesomely inclusive progressive movement of all the disenfranchised.  Hooray for Hope!  Yes We Can!

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-02-16 05:35PM | 0 recs
Re: ABC:Obama Under Fire for Sexist Remarks

I don't understand this.

The word "periodically" has nothing to do with menstrual cycles.

And saying that when a candidate is down they attack (even with claws) is nothing related to gender in my view.

by bigdavefromqueens 2008-02-16 05:46PM | 0 recs
Is anyone else tired of...
The Hillary consistantly playing the Victim Card every time her campaign is on the brink?  The boys were ganging up on her in Philadelphia.  Tim Russert was asking mean questions.  In New Hampshire, Edwards and Obama were ganging up on her.  It's difficult and I'm going to try to squirt some tears.  (But she couldn't even do that.  She did that whole fake crying thing with her breathing and speech pattern.) It's very embarrassing.  The victim card is the only non-nuclear option that The Hillary's campaign has left.  Obama said "When she's down" not "when she's feeling down".  This is grasping at straws.  There was no "dog-whistle" to all of the sexists who think that she's just "on the rag".
Besides, she's 60.  That ship has probably already sailed.
by blandon70 2008-02-17 06:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Is anyone else tired of...

I have read the Obama comment to fifteen different women today, carefully omitting who made the comment or who the comment was made about to help eliminate any political bias.

Every one felt it was an insensitive, sexist remark.

When I mentioned who made the comment, five of the women said they would have to re-think voting for Obama.

Only men seem to not understand the offensive nature of such comments... especially the ones that foolishly think women of 60 years old have "already sailed"!

As for who has played the victim card, wasn't it Obama's camp who falsely claimed that former Pres. Clinton was a racist because Clinton had said the Obama campaign itself was a fairy tail (when he was speaking of only the fact that there was no difference in Obama and Clinton's votes regarding funding Iraq...)?

by TomPaineInTheButt 2008-02-18 05:24PM | 0 recs

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