Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

My name is Andre Walker, I'm 24 years old, and I got my start in politics working as a Fulton County, Georgia elections official in 2000 when I was 16.  Over the past eight years, I've seen campaigns and candidates come and go.  I've volunteered for many of them myself and as such, I've come to expect the enthusiastic campaign volunteer/supporter.  However, with the 2008 presidential election, I've seen some things that are totally unexpected and completely disturbing.

What I'm talking about, of course, is the manner in which supporters of Illinois Sen. Barack Obama promote their candidate and tear down anyone who opposes him.

We all know that, on the internet, many Obama supporters travel around like a pack of rabid wolves waiting to pounce on anyone who even dares to question their candidate; the name calling and the tasteless comments are what many have come to expect on sites such as Daily Kos and even MyDD.  But now, it's gotten to the point where the mainstream media is starting to take notice, and quite frankly, it is freaking them out.

Over the weekend, Ben Smith of Politico.com wrote the following:

I fought to have an unmoderated, open comments section when this blog launched because I really like the free flow of information, and I think moderation and registration sometimes push away the occasional poster who has some specific piece of knowledge to add on a given thread.

But I'm also starting to get a lot of complaints, and requests for moderation, because over the last few weeks, the conversation has sometimes degenerated a bit.

Obama's online enthusiasm is a marvel, and has gotten him a lot of justifiably good press; the venom from his supporters across the blogosphere has the opposite effect. As with Dean in 2004, it freaks out people in the middle.

Anyway, for now, I'd just like to ask some commenters to treat this more like a conversation, less like the wall in a public bathroom.

Source:  Politico.com/Ben Smith blog "Commenting comment"

Now I'm not going to start calling out names, but some of the caustic rhetoric that I see from many Obama supporters both here on MyDD and over at Daily Kos is reminiscent of the "don't you dare say anything against President Bush" rhetoric spewed forth by the Republicans right after September 11th.

Keep on reading, because the worse is on the way...

Now tearing people down on the internet is one thing.  Everyone loves to be a net thug, because they can hide behind their computer screen and say things that they normally wouldn't say in person.  But that same poisonous venom that's flowing throughout the blogosphere is now starting to seep into the real world.

Robert Holeman came to Timken High School here today with a message to deliver to Bill Clinton. He did -- and he said the former president wasn't happy about it.

Throughout the event, as Clinton made his case for his wife, Holeman's dissenting voice could be heard. At times he simply shouted Obama's name. When Clinton would set up a sure applause line, Holeman could be heard heckling. As soon as Clinton finished speaking, the Canton native made a beeline to the ropeline to give Clinton a piece of his mind.

"This is the last hurrah. After March 4, Hillary Clinton will be out of the race for good, and Obama will take the commanding lead," he said. "She should back him with her delegates immediately. That's what I'm asking them to do."

Source:  2/17/2008 MSNBC/First Read article "Bill Spars With Obama Supporter"

When I read the "after March 4" line, I thought to myself, "boy, that sounds like one of the many comments you can read on the internet any day of the week." Now I ask you; what sane American wants to be associated with a candidate that attracts individuals who will disrespect a former President of the United States.

I mean come on, how do you disrespect a former President of the United States like that?  I voted against President Bush; I campaigned against him; but I would never disrespect him because I have a little bit too much respect for the office that he holds.  

You can disagree without being disagreeable, and up to this point, Obama supporters have been doing both; disagreeing and being disagreeable.

The insults hurled at Tavis Smiley are just another example of how inappropriate, rude, and disrespectful Obama supporters have become.

Tavis Smiley, the bestselling author of the "Covenant With Black America," is in a world turned upside down. He said he's being "hammered,""barbecued," and is "catching hell" from black Americans for suggesting that Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) made a major mistake by declining to speak at the State of the Black Union event that Smiley plans to host next week in New Orleans.

"There's all this talk of hater, sellout and traitor," Smiley said to me in a telephone interview. Smiley even mentioned getting death threats, but wouldn't elaborate. He said his office has been flooded with angry e-mails. "I have family in Indianapolis. They are harassing my momma, harassing my brother. It's getting to be crazy," Smiley said.

Source:  2/16/2008 Washington Post/The Trail blog "Black Commenter, Criticizing Obama, Causes Firestorm"

Death threats?  Harassing the man's mother?  And some of you wonder how people can say if Obama becomes the nominee, they'll sit at home or even vote for McCain.   The biggest reason why people are saying that is because they don't want to deal with another 9 months of the Obamaniacs' feeding frenzy; let alone 4 years if he gets in the White House.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is the Obama supporters need to tone down the rhetoric.  Support your candidate, but don't belittle the supporters of other candidates.  

Show a little respect, a little class, and a little tact because right now, your behavior is freaking a whole lot of people out.

Tags: Barack Obama (all tags)

Comments

176 Comments

By the way, I don't think they'll listen...

...But I just like to put things out there so people can't say they weren't warned.

by Andre Walker 2008-02-18 05:42AM | 0 recs
Re: By the way, I don't think they'll listen...

Andre, my hat is off to you.  And you provide information -- from Politico and from Tavis Smiley (not hearsay, to the commenter below) -- that is truly shocking to me.

I thought i'd seen it all from the Obamadroids, but this is just sickening.

And, Andre, thank you for your service to the Democratic party, and for your respect for this country's institutions.  You are very mature.

by susanhu 2008-02-18 06:13AM | 0 recs
Re: So Good to See this Diary!

HAHAHA is this snark?

by mcdave 2008-02-18 12:14PM | 0 recs
Re: he's a thug

Obama is a "thug"? Are you taking crazy pills?

by mcdave 2008-02-18 12:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Many GOP netizens are posing as Obama-philes

Obama likes to take credit for all of his Republican support, he needs to take responsibility for the people who support him online too.  Many people realize that Republicans are supporting Obama in the primary because they do not like Senator Clinton, they also will be supporting John McCain in the Fall.  

by nycvoter 2008-02-18 12:55PM | 0 recs
"potential despot"

share the drugs, man.  share the drugs.

by Teaser 2008-02-19 02:07AM | 0 recs
Re: By the way, I don't think they'll listen...

So if I can find an example of a Hillary Clinton supporter doing something crazy, will you just sit out the election entirely?

This stuff is stupid. Talk about issues, not this side-show nonsense. Obama supporters aren't crazy. They just like Barack Obama better than Hillary Clinton for very sane and rational reasons. Trying to explain Obama away by linking him and his supporters with mental illness or sexism or internet trolling or whatever is just a sad and desperate tactic. It's really lame.

C'mon, buck up. Give me some diaries about how awesome Hillary Clinton is. The bitter tone is getting boring.

by Jumbo 2008-02-18 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: By the way, I don't think they'll listen...

Once you realize that Obama is the republican troll candidate, then the prowling attack posters make more sense. Eventually, to prove that he is a uniter and not a divider, Obama will have to endorse McCain to keep his rep and fulfill his stated mission. IMO, he's well on his way to getting McCain elected as president.

by thetis 2008-02-18 02:47PM | 0 recs
There isn't a single link...

...To your "direct evidence" while I posted three links to accounts of Obama supporters being rude and disrespectful.

by Andre Walker 2008-02-18 05:46AM | 0 recs
Saturday

I posted two comments.

The first was a question in a diary about some anti-Hillary signs.

In response, I was called a dumb-ass.  No Pro Hillary people bothered to say that was uncivil.
http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/2/16/1 24423/001/110#110

In another thread, made a comment about how people were getting emotional in their arguments.
This is the response from another pro-Hillary poster:
"Obamabots are factless, crude, nasty little attack monkeys - just exactly like rightwing trolls - exactly. "
http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/2/16/1 9361/9756/9#9

Actually, this comment comes pretty close to outright rascism - but no pro-Hillary person was bothered.

My point is not that Obama people are more virtuous - right now I think well over 50% of the posters are downright mean and irrational.

But the notion that one side is particularly over the top is simply not true.

by fladem 2008-02-18 04:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Nothing betrays slopping thinking and propaganda as the unknowing use of the Royal we, as in: "We all know that..."

So what is your thesis? What is your point?  That you're embarrassed by picking Hillary as your candidate?  That you think the bullies in the playground are at fault?  

Sad. Sad. Sad.

by denis diderot 2008-02-18 05:49AM | 0 recs
Just from your comments...

...I can see that you support the caustic rhetoric that's flowing throughout the internet and now seeping into the real world.

You can call it "Sad.  Sad.  Sad.," but what is really sad is the fact that the Obama supporters just don't get it.  They just don't get that they're freaking people out by their methods of promoting their candidate.

I'm proud of my choice to support Hillary for President, and I'm not backing away from it.  What I'm embarrassed about is the way Obama's supporters disrespect and belittle everyone who doesn't support him.  

That reflects badly on Barack Obama the candidate and it reflects badly on the Democratic Party.

by Andre Walker 2008-02-18 05:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Just from your comments...

You're disproving your own point.  The only thing that is hurting the Democratic party is charisma-deprived, anti-inspiration ranting of Bill and Hillary (Billary) in favor of themselves over and above the Democratic party.  The royal sense of entitlement that the White House is theirs, that they are only ones smart enough to run things.  Well, you can wrap that rhetoric up in the blue Gap dress that it belongs in.

by denis diderot 2008-02-18 06:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Just from your comments...

You just proved the OP's original point. Blue dress? What on earth does that have to do with THIS campaign? Billary?

As far as charism deprived, I have to say, I would rather have a hard working policy wonk in the whitehouse than a charismatic, inspiring empty suit who caves at the first sign of resistence.

by americanincanada 2008-02-18 06:47AM | 0 recs
You would rather

work for a corporate money monger than an ethical person - I get it.

by Moonwood 2008-02-18 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Just from your comments...

It is just false Obama-logic to say that Hillary is ranting in favor of herself over the democratic party.

Hillary is the only one talking positively about the democratic party -- Obama keeps insulting it with his dismissal of President Bill Clinton's legacy and by tying Bill to Nixon, while elevating the ideas of the Reagan administration. And, Obama's frequent assertion that he'll have Hillary voters but she won't have his, is also divisive. We democrats don't like to be taken for granted. But, I agree with diarist, more than anything it's the ugly Obama supporter rants, the use of GOP Hillary-hate as the only reason to elevate their candidate that is doing the most damage. Every time you argue for Obama by attacking Hillary (which is almost all of the time.) you are turning of Democrats to Obama.

We're supposed to be in this to win in November. Assassinating the character of the democratic nominee is not helpful and it hurts the majority of the democractic electorate.  (Hillary is winning among democrats...and while we love independents and republicans who want to support our candidate, we are averse to them entering the party in order to destroy our candidate.)

by seattlegonz 2008-02-18 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Just from your comments...

"What I'm embarrassed about is the way Obama's supporters disrespect and belittle everyone who doesn't support him."

Well on this site as well as others, Supporters of Obama are "kool-aid drinkers," "cultists," "kids," "elitists," "latte-drinkers," "wine-drinkers," "people who don't need a president" (that one came from Bill Clinton himself), "live in insignificant states" (From chief strategist Mark Penn), "misogynists, "sexists," "uninformed," and the list goes on.

You seriously think this is a one way street?

by WellstoneDem 2008-02-18 06:15AM | 0 recs
you mean like use the bully pulpit

to vote for telecom immunity like Hillary did this week by not showing up for a vote. It that how Hillary helps poor people by shilling for corporations?

by Moonwood 2008-02-18 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Just from your comments...

"You are a cultist"

I think you just kind of proved his point.  Being a douchebag isn't reserved for being a Clinton or an Obama supporter.  It is however, seemingly a prerequisite for being a thread commenter on MyDD.com.

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 07:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Just from your comments...

WHY ARE YOU HERE IF YOU HATE IT SO?

by Seymour Glass 2008-02-18 09:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Just from your comments...

Cause it wasn't always like this.  And after the nomination fight is done it won't be again.

Better question:  Why are you still using that keyboard if your caps lock is broken?

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 09:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Just from your comments...

Thank you for giving me a little giggle on such an obnoxious diary. But, then again, I'm a googly-eyed cultist on way too many Starbucks lattes, so it shouldn't be so hard to make me laugh.

by cecilybecily 2008-02-18 01:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Just from your comments...

Come on. The allcaps are very persuasive.

by mhojo 2008-02-18 05:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Just from your comments...

Your rhetoric is just as caustic, dude. Look at the title of your diary. Look at your literary devices:

"what sane American wants to be associated with a candidate that attracts individuals who will disrespect a former President of the United States."

Just come out and say it: You think Obama supporters  are mentally ill.

Should people start heckling the form President in rhetorical question form? Will that make you feel more comfortable?

Pot, meet kettle. I believe you both have something in common that maybe you need to talk about.

by Jumbo 2008-02-18 09:08AM | 0 recs
The closest fallacy

is the argumentum ad populum.  I couldn't find any "royal fallacy" on wikipedia, but it would be a good one to invent.

by corph 2008-02-18 06:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I agree, but I wouldn't single out supporters of Senator Obama.  Lets take a look at the recommended list here at MyDD:

Just Words, But Whose Words?: Which claims Senator Obama is a plaigarist.

Senator Obama: Debate This: Which attacks supporters of Senator Obama at the bottom basically arguing none of them have good reason to support him.

Obama: "I Believe In Free Trade":  Which apparently argues that Senator Obama is just as much or more of fan of free trade as Senator Clinton.

Hillary on Kosovoa: Which insults the youth vote and claims Senator Obama has no clue in foreign relations.

2208: Which argues super-delegates should thwart the will of the the pledged delegates if they wish.

So 1 flat out attack on Senator Obama and 4 diaries that thought they would right about Senator Clinton but just couldn't make it through the diary without slamming Senator Obama or his supporters a few times.

by WellstoneDem 2008-02-18 05:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Have you ever protested against DailyKos, MSNBC, Huffington Post, Talking Points Memo, Open Left...etc.? If so, I can certainly agree with you. Be fair.

by praxis1 2008-02-18 06:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I never recommend anti-hillary diaries anywhere and  often I write that the diarist would be better off sticking with why they support their candidate.  The only candidate diaries that I recommend are those in which someone explains a personal experience they had that is interesting or inspiring and those that show some good analysis of the election.  A few times I have recommended diaries that just explain Senator Obama's positions because I get tired of reading that he doens't have any.

by WellstoneDem 2008-02-18 06:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

See, this is the difference the poster above you was talking about.  Instead of why your choice of candidate is better you resorted to hyperbolic personal attacks of character without citation.

Oh and you added a second ? just to make sure the internet masses knew you were VERY SERIOUS in your questioning.

So, you can either cut out the personal attacks your candidates opposition, accept the personal attacks on your candidate as part of the game, or embrace the hypocrisy of not believing what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 08:04AM | 0 recs
This Weekend on MyDD...

I've read diaries comparing Obama to Hitler.  One with comments suggesting he was some sort of anti-gay messiah that might instruct his followers to round up gay people.

I've read at least three different "Obama is a Muslim" smear diaries, and countless comments implying the same.

I've read that he's anti-semetic.

I've read that he hates women.  And gays.

I've read that he's lying about his mom's death from cancer, and/or using it to get elected.

Everyone needs to stop this, cause it's coming from all sides.  These diaries that selectively call out one side or another are totally missing the point.

by Brillobreaks 2008-02-18 06:26AM | 0 recs
Re: This Weekend on MyDD...

The cancer diary was just awful and I believe almost every commentor treated it as such.  I didn't read the "anti-gay messiah" piece but it sounds ridiculous.

I would argue that it's fair to discuss what are viewed as sexist dismissals by Obama by some -- and I ask why not?  Am I supposed to just brush off my own discomforts and fold down my antennae because OBVIOUSLY the man couldn't POSSIBLY be a sexist?  How do I know this?  Why must that dialogue be shut down?
My concerns are genuine and I feel they are always being brushed off as "loser whining" and impossible stretches.  They aren't to me.  they aren't to many.  Why can't those concerns be aired and rationally discussed?

The M word thing -- when I bring it up it's within the context of genuine concerns for his strength as a candidate.  There is some meat on that bone whether Obama supporters wish to contend with it now or later.  
All of the concerns are based in facts, even if they would have to be stretched into reasons not to vote for him.  My fear (I won't speak for anyone else) is that these well known and acknowledge facts will deeply wound him in the general.  

forget the loose ties or invented ties, what he did in gradeschool or any weird twisting of his statements.  When I mention it I'm referring to things as plain as his name, his parentage, the church he currently belongs to and how the general electorate might very well respond to his background when more immersed in it by the Swiftboat crowd.  

I've listened to two solid months of Senator Clinton being assumed this horrifically flawed candidate and musings about her "unelectability".  Well, I have my own "electability" concerns.  Why is it not "undermining the party" to trash her with 20 year old right wing talking points and the assumption of the day about her latest nefarious motive -- but somehow disloyal and divisive to express genuine concerns about Obama as a general election candidate?

I don't get this.  It seems a double standard based in assumptions we don't all immediately share.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-02-18 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: This Weekend on MyDD...

Agree completely. I was an Edwards supporter who finally voted for Hillary in the California primary. Yes, there is name-calling on both sides. But far more comes from the Obama supporters, from what I've observed.

Yes, why co-opt rightwing talking points? Why the misogyny - and yes, it's there.

I will vote for Obama if he's the nominee, but I won't be excited or enthusiastic about my choice.

My perception of the Obama "movement" is that if you don't agree, if you don't get on the bus, you are not welcome on any level. The agreement needs to be total, no questions asked. I can't ask about the weak, johnny come lately environmental platform, i can't ask about the U. of Chicago economists, I'm just a hater for daring to do so.

This was a part of what pushed me into voting for Clinton, I will admit. It's a huge turnoff. And it's dangerous.

If you Obama supporters can't admit that there is a strong cult-like element to the support, I think you are in denial. But that's a part of "belonging."

by OtherLisa 2008-02-18 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: This Weekend on MyDD...

Then can Hillary supporters acknowledge that questions of racism are just as legit? I know plenty of people I worked with in California who say they would not vote for Obama because he was black. They were pretty open about it. They said they were not racist, but didn't believe a black man could ever win. I dismissed them just as I would dismiss anybody arguing against Hillary because she's a woman, and a powerful one at that!

Also, to address the cult thing- When I have been to super crowded Obama rallies, it never felt like a cult. It felt like a bunch of people joining together who were truly optimistic and hopeful that we can change things, not just Obama, but all of us. When I see other Obama supporters, it's neat to share that excitement. I've been pretty cynical my whole life, but I've tried to maintain some level of hope that things can better. And Obama helps inspire that hope in others. It saddens me (bringing out my cynical side) that people think of that excited, hopeful energy as cultish. I also truly appreciate the excitement that Hillary Clinton offers. I'm happy to read all these diaries where people say they vote for Hillary for their daughters, or their mothers. I think that's terrific, I really do. I'm glad we have two candidates who inspire their supporters, while conservatives will vote begrudgingly- if at all- for McCain.

And by the way, I support Obama and truly believe he will win. When he does, you are more than welcome to  reap all the benefits of a dem presidency. I'm on the same side as you. I hate smears as much as you. I feel I've been smeared on these sites (as an Obama supporter) as much as you. Anyone who stays above trash-talk is all right by me, no matter which dem they support.

by cecilybecily 2008-02-18 02:08PM | 0 recs
I've been saying it all along

all along I've been saying that the two of them are lightening rods for sexism and racism and we'd all be fools not to believe that.  No way this country is healing overnight on either count.

I do feel the MSM has been blatantly sexist in allowing some of their talking heads to get away with murder and in the nature of the stories they feature -- like all the airtime devoted to "Hilary cries".  the horrible Katie Couric 60 minutes interview.  I think the MSM has been horribly sexist and irresponsible.  And I don't feel they have said or done anything racist, but then I'm not going to pick up on that as quick as a person of color.  

As far as the candidates and their campaigns I think Senator Clinton has a history of fighting for civil rights that earned her and Pres. Clinton respect, even a sense of kinship, in the black community.  Senator Obama?  I'm nervous for the "present" votes and some things he's written about his mother.  I'm not saying I know he's a sexist, I'm saying I don't know if he's not, he has yet to prove himself to me on that.

Their specific remarks?  I'm really bothered by the "claws" comment and the "when she's feeling low" but not as much.  I think the first is out there, the second is open to interpretation.  Stand alone it's nothing.  I really felt he dismissed her pointedly with the "you're likable enough" comment.
On the other side, I think the Jesse Jackson comment was stupid and dismissive -- equally as offensive as the "claws" thing.  I think the LBJ comment on the other hand was fair and taken out of context.  

As for supporters?  Frankly, I've been completely flabbergasted by the sexism expressed on the Daily  Kos.  Dumbfounded.  I was told there by commentors that sexism isn't real, is in the past and wasn't bad, that white women have "had it made", domestic violence is overblown and sexism was absolutely positively not a factor in this race.   I've been called a "Feminazi" and a "whiner about seixsm" so many times, well,  I just don't know how to take that except as runaway sexism.  Not from every Obama supporter or even every "Hillary Hater" by any means, but it is definitely there.

I have never seen it on Kos but I've seen what sure stank like racism here.  I'd like to believe I troll rate it every time I see it and i wish everyone did.  I do think it is at work in some people whether they can admit it or not.

All THAT said I think we are capable of much more sane discussions on race (agreed: racism exists, racism is wrong) than we are on gender. I think we are capable of electing a black president long before a female president and seeing black men as the equals of white men long before we see men and women as equally capable.  But then again, I'm not a person of color -- I don't witness it firsthand every day and I haven't lived the history.

I have lived the history of a white woman in this country and so no one is ever going to convince me that sexism is not a factor in this contest.  A deciding factor?  the tipping factor?  We have no way of knowing.  I just won't have it dismissed out of hand.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-02-18 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: I've been saying it all along

And I agree with you as a woman. Sexism is real and I have certainly felt it in my life. I also am not a person of color, but know that racism exists. It's hard to gauge which is more prevalent in this election. I don't really want to. Those asshole people aren't worth our time. I'm sorry you've experienced some really bad Obama supporters. I don't think of Obama as a sexist. I thought the "likable enough" comment was weird, for sure, but I thought he meant it as more of a jokey thing than it came off. I'm sure he's learned his lesson with that one. I have been an Obama supporter for a long while now, and I truly, truly don't believe he's sexist. I would never support him if I thought so. I'm positive some of his supporters are ignorant, just as some Clinton supporters are ignorant, and for that I am truly sorry.

by cecilybecily 2008-02-18 07:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

It's surprising to me, and a little funny, that you don't see the difference between diaries that point out differences between the candidates on issues and ones that are merely inflammatory. Just read the comments on any diary and you'll understand what this diarist is talking about.

Hillary is a much stronger candidate for Commander in Chief because of her Armed Services service and because of her foreign relations developed while she  was first lady. Obama's experience is virtually non-existent on both fronts -- and he has the unfortunate habit of saying he'll sit down with Ahmadinejad one minute and he'll bomb Pakistan the next.

Mydd is absolutely the place to talk about the reasons you think Obama will make a better president...unless that reason is that you hate Hillary, or that she's bad, evil or whatever. That's not a positive case for your candidate, nor is it positive for the democratic party. If we are divided we lose in November. Hillary may be our nominee and the less time you devote to denigrating her, the better are chances will be to win in the fall.

by seattlegonz 2008-02-18 09:38AM | 0 recs
Well, you could link to them

I, for one, would disrespect GWB if I met him in person.  He sure as hell hasn't shown any respect for the office it holds.

And while people often make up their minds by aversion to candidates supporters (I hate the terms "traitor" and "sell-out" in politics, even when applied to Joe Lieberman), it can't be stopped.

I do not hold the NY NOW chair's idiotic comments about Ted Kennedy betraying women against the Hillary campaign. If I knew people who were making those "traitor" phone calls, I would ask them to stop.

I highly doubt those people read mydd, though.

by corph 2008-02-18 05:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Well, you could link to them

Bill Clinton is not our enemy. Actually he is our great resource we SHOULD utilize to fight republicans in 2008. Demonizing and harrassing Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton is not good for Dems. I doubt that Obama supporters care about the party, though. They are "inspired" too much by Obama to care there is actually a party to represent the will of people.

by praxis1 2008-02-18 06:11AM | 0 recs
I agree

my point is we can't make people stop, and that it's silly to pick a candidate based on the  acts of a small percentage of supporters.

by corph 2008-02-18 06:14AM | 0 recs
If Obama is the nominee

you should not support him - he being homophobic and misogynistic and all.  

by Moonwood 2008-02-18 07:24AM | 0 recs
Good advice.

by JimR 2008-02-18 07:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Good advice.

Agreed, thanks for the good advice.

by Larissa 2008-02-18 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Good advice.

Why Not is still troll rating everyone he disagrees with.  Would someone running MyDD please explain this is not appropriate?

by Larissa 2008-02-18 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: I agree

Jesse Jackson Jr. goes on tv AND THREATENS SUPER DELEGATES with primary challenges if they dont' switch to Obama. What the fuck is that?

Democracy.

If elected officials do something you don't like, you challenge them in the next election...

by Monkey In Chief 2008-02-18 08:36AM | 0 recs
I have a hard time following you

Look at the 1984, his spokesman's roommate made.

Are you referring to an ad or something?  And how do you know what they knew?  What's your evidence?

Would you care to quote that "blatantly, offensively, misogynistic rhertoric" you heard?

I'm getting used to these silly Clinton partisans who see misogyny everwhere, but this is the first time I've heard "homophobic", outside of that whole preacher mess a while back.

by corph 2008-02-18 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: I have a hard time following you

HE F-ING ROOMED WITH A OBAMA PRESS AIDE AND HE WORKED FOR THE CAMPAIGN WEB VENDER THAT THE OBAMA TEAM HIRED

GET A FRIGGIN CLUE.

by Seymour Glass 2008-02-18 09:34AM | 0 recs
Shut up

and stop capitalizing.  I asked what this 1984 thing was.  It was in response to my post, so it's not up to me to figure out what he's talking about.

by corph 2008-02-18 11:31AM | 0 recs
No, it isn't silly to pick on such a candidate

When you run like a demagogue, you incite rabble.  Obama has deliberately chosen a strategy of appealing to the instincts of religious fervor in political behavior.  This choice is one of the main reasons I can never support him.

by lombard 2008-02-18 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: bashing Clinton makes zero political sense

This is the thing I don't get.  It makes ZERO sense politically for Democrats to demonize Bill Clinton.  He was all we had to counter Saint Ronald Reagan.  

Reagan's mythological legacy didn't come from reality, it came from Republicans elevating him. Instead, Democrats decided to destroy Clinton's reality-based legacy.

Bill Clinton was the only one to beat Republicans and gain the presidency in 27 years.  And left office at 68% approval.  People were nostalgic for him after Bush.

Advantage lost.

by Larissa 2008-02-18 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: bashing Clinton makes zero political sense

You don't get it? It makes zero sense? Really?

Bill Clinton had a choice:
Option #1 - Remain above the fray and remain a uniting influence for Democrats and a potent tool to use against the Republicans.

Option #2 - Support his wife against his wife's Democratic political opponents.

Either choice was rational for former President Clinton, and he chose option #2. In the course of supporting his wife, he pushed against Obama. The Obama campaign would have been stupid to allow Bill's advocacy for his wife to go unopposed.

Maybe we could use the martyred (sort of) Al Gore to fight the sainted Ronald Reagan.

by mhojo 2008-02-18 05:22PM | 0 recs
Don't Mess With Obamamania

and you and your family will be safe.

by prince georges for obama 2008-02-18 05:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Don't Mess With Obamamania

This is exactly the type of threatening and harassing comments Bushies used to make.

by annefrank 2008-02-18 06:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Don't Mess With Obamamania

Yeah, and that no serious Obama supporter is making.

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 08:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

This reminds me of an event I heard about back in 2004 where some university - I wish I could remember which one, but it's somewhere in Pennsylvania - invited a moderate Republican to speak at some sort of event and the College Democrats organized a movement to heckle the poor person.  Absolutely disgusting.

It's not even by virtue of the office that you hold that should be at least allowed to sure your opinion, but just as a regular human being.

That being said, I am quite aware that the vast majority of Obama supporters out in the real world are probably fine, decent people.  I don't know what they can do about situations like this except speak out and say it's not appropriate, and I hope they do for their sake and if not their candidate's sake.

by ejintx 2008-02-18 06:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Karl Rove?

I think it was a state senator or something like that.  It wasn't a federal official.

by ejintx 2008-02-20 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

It's not "hearsay" at all. This has been going on for months at DailyKossack. Erica Jong wrote an op-ed in the New York Times talking about how she's received the most vicious and threatening emails imaginable since she wrote her column supporting Hillary Clinton--and they're from Obama supporters. Taylor Marsh regularly receives vile hate mail using every epithet imaginable--from Obama supporters.

These Obama supporters actually believe they are performing political activism for their candidate, Barack Obama, by attacking, threatening, and using the most offensive language imaginable, in email threats, or blog-swarms by Obama supporters to troll-rate and auto-ban anyone who deviates from their Barack Obama group-think.

It's fascist, it's totalitarian thuggery.

And, Andre is right. They'd better cut it out because they are driving people away from Obama with their totalitarian thuggery and their triumphalist rhetoric.

Of course, as has been said, THE FISH ROTS FROM THE HEAD. I blame Markos for setting the tone at DailyKos, which has set the tone in a larger sense on the net. His entire system of "troll-ratings" and "hidden comments" is geared towards allowing the "community" to keep people compliant with group-think.

That's not very democratic in my view. It's inherently anti-free-speech. Apparently, Markos feared GOP trolls so much, he selected a system that didn't allow for differences of opinion within the progressive community either.

by Tennessean 2008-02-18 06:04AM | 0 recs
Hillary supporter gone over the edge

Facist?  Totalitarian?  do you even know what those words mean?

by Moonwood 2008-02-18 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Thanks for the diary.

by praxis1 2008-02-18 06:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

It makes me sick that BOTH sets of supporters degenerate into vitriolic and lame name-calling and snarky crap.

I have admonished BO supporters (of which I am one) and have TRIED to do so with HRC's folks...the funny part is that Hillary's website won't even post a comment that contains anything that seems like remote support for Obama.  They only seem to post pie-eyed, unbridled support.  That my friends is CENSORSHIP...but  that's another story.

I spend a fair amount of time on blogs, and I have found that neither camp has the edge when it comes to this sort of crap.  Where BO's set of fools tend to insult HRC and her camp for her politcal gaming and war support...it is the language they use that is terrible.

HRC's people tend to attack BO and his folks for reasons that have little to do with policy, choosing to suggest the muslim crap, his middle name, or suggest he is a cult leader.

NIETHER attack form is acceptable!  I am a fair-minded person, folks...I strive to keep my criticism above-board and reasoned.  Can we all just get along?

This is a topic that should be dropped entirely.  Pleasae Mr. or Mrs. Thread Mod...delete this topic.  

by a gunslinger 2008-02-18 06:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I agree with you up until the point where you want the subject to be dropped.  I simply feel that it's important for people to see what all of this ultimately degenerates into.  It's only my opinion though.

by ejintx 2008-02-18 06:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!
Your commentary suggests this topic SHOULD BE discussed.
Then, your last sentence says diary should be deleted.
Huh??
by annefrank 2008-02-18 06:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Why should this topic be deleted? This is something that should be discussed. it needs to be brought out into the light.

I am a Clinton supporter but I try my best to keep my comments about the race and campaigns, not personally insulting other posters using vile language. People support who they support.

by americanincanada 2008-02-18 06:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I do not think that "BOTH" supporters are equally crazy. Have ever been in Daily Kos lately? Do you really think that MyDD can be any match to Daily Kos? Have you ever read Huffington Post recently? Talking Points Memo? Open Left? I have never heard of any death threat made by a Hillary supportor against anybody. Hillary supporters and Obama supprters are NOT equally bad. Obama supporters are way worse than Hillary supporters.

by praxis1 2008-02-18 06:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Baloney.  Any single nutjob can be compared unfavorably to the whole.  I could find umpteen examples of BOTH parties making threats, or suggesting that either is the anti-christ.  The HRC nuts are just as bad as the BO zealots.

My opinion that the thread should be deleted is only representative of its RELATIVE VALUE to the contest.  For cryin' out loud, we are posting over the behavior of a few fringe folks, rather than discussing important things like:

1) Electability and the effect of the candidate on congressional majorities

  1. Ending the war
  2. Energy policy
  3. Where donations are coming from
  4. What Howard dean is going to do about the primary delgates, etc.

These are topics worth having spritied but reasonable discussion on...not the vitriol spewed by each candidate's nuttier supporters.

Let's all get REAL.

by a gunslinger 2008-02-18 06:34AM | 0 recs
"Where donations come from"

What a concept.  Where do Hillary's and Obama's donations come from?  Hillary is taking corporate PAC money from the telecom industry and just happened to miss the vote on FISA (while she was in town) - is there some conection?  is this what we should be talking about or should be just keep making baseless accusations?

by Moonwood 2008-02-18 07:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Well don't worry Water Hen about driving people out.  I read both MyDD and DailyKos (pretty much the only two I read daily) and I voted for Obama.

Under Sides, Ga6th, lansim (?), oh and the one that compares everyone that doesn't support their candidate to CPAC members are close to driving me out.  And I have the patience of a god damn saint for this crap...so I am sure you guys have pretty much already driven out all but the most patient or the most ardent Obama supporters.  All you have to do is look at the comments and dairies on this site.

/sarcasm=1
I hope we split the party into two parties after that.  Wouldn't it be freakin awesome to NEVER win another presidential election.  I mean, come on, how cool would it be to think of ourselves as forever self righteous Nader supporters?
/sarcasm=0

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 08:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

BRAVO!  I could not agree with you more.  BOTH camps are EQUALLY guilty of the worst kind of discourse and this diary is a good example of it.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-02-18 08:32AM | 0 recs
Thank you Andre!

You speak for many who recognize Obamabots as the new Bushies - spending more time smearing the character of other candidates and their supporters than posting reasons to support Obama.

by annefrank 2008-02-18 06:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you Andre!

I like what you did just then.  You didn't even bother smearing the other candidate, just the 9 million people that voted for him.

So you are saying the other side should resort to smearing the 9 million people that voted for your side instead?

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you Andre!

Annefrank must be a GOP troll trying to drive a wedge between reasonable folks.  Someone suggested earlier that the Vitriolic jerks from BOTH camps might well be trolls trying to stir things up.... When I read crap comparing Obama supporters to Bush people, I think there may well be something to it.

Obama has run the more agile, more thoughtful, and more visionary campaign.  By her own words, HRC assumed that this would be done by 2/5.  Her own sense of self-entitlement has led to her near-demise...not the postings of Trolls or overly zealous nincompoops!

Sheesh!

by a gunslinger 2008-02-18 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you Andre!

R U another Troll?  I will not get into a "less filling...tastes great" debate.

Sheesh!

by a gunslinger 2008-02-18 10:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Thanks for the diary. You can add the Daily Howler, Digby and others to the list of people/bloggers who have been getting caustic e-mail. I do believe Digby even shut her comments down for a bit as well. Taylor had moderated hers, occasionally you will even see comment sections closed at Talkleft for the same reason.

Of course the Obama supporters don't see it. They think that insulting supporters of other candidates personally is the same as talking about policy or talking about why we don't think a candidate has the right experience or character to be president. Trust me accusing a candidate of stealing or using the same speech as someone else, WITH PROOF, is not the same as calling their supporters whores or worse.

by americanincanada 2008-02-18 06:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

When Obamabots began doing the faked outrage thingy and screaming RACISM! over the LBJ/MLK, Jr. flap - and Edwards sided with HISTORY and Hillary - Kos called Edwards an ass.

Some Kossacks even created sig lines of Kos' statement.

by annefrank 2008-02-18 06:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Well, then what do you call screaming SEXISM when Obama says the word "periodically".  It's called Cognitive Dissonance and you should read it in a dictionary.

by GobBluth 2008-02-18 06:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Oh - I think Oblahma knew exactly what he was doing when he referenced "claws."

by annefrank 2008-02-19 05:45AM | 0 recs
I moved from uncommitted...

to committed to Hillary Clinton after being the direct recipient of "you're a stupid, lazy, f*cking idiot" - several times - on DKos because I dared to ask a simple, legitimate questions about Obama in my quest to find a candidate.

That turned me away from Obama and to take serious looks at both Edwards and Clinton.  I was moving toward Edwards when he withdrew and now am squarely in Hillary Clintons camp.

I also have a lot of animosity toward the "Obama camp" - and that does, indeed, include the candidate.

by Shazone 2008-02-18 06:20AM | 0 recs
You win the hyperbole award.

You've been getting death threats?  Strong-armed into voting for Obama?  I would call the police.

"Some of these so-called progressives..." nice weasel words, and way to guilt the Obama campaign by association.

So let me respond in kind by impugning your motives: You're fabricating this stuff because Hillary Clinton is losing.

by corph 2008-02-18 06:21AM | 0 recs
Good grief

You issue a "plea" for civil dialogue and you start it out by calling supporters of the other candidate by an insulting nickname ("Obamanics")? That's a great way to de-escalate the discussion, isn't it?

Some supporters of both sides have engaged in outrageous attacks in the highly charged election. You can cite your examples of Obama supporter excesses, and for each one of them I can find similar examples of Clinton supporters attacking -- repeating the absurd idea that Obama supporters are cultists, the vicious statements from the NY NOW chapter, the number of times I've received the "Muslim" emails from Clinton supporters, the diaries claiming that Obama supporters are all immature political naifs, the comment posted here yesterday claiming that Obama was a closet case ... the list goes on and on. I log on here every day to see a plethora of diaries attacking Obama -- rarely are they rational or civil in tone.

In your view, the Obama supporters are worse - yet from where I sit, I see more outrageous examples from the Clinton supporters -- maybe our perspective is shaped by our candidate choice.

Personally, I never attack Clinton or her supporters -- even when I'm engaged in intense arguments with them. I routinely troll-rate or hide out of bounds attacks on either candidate or their supporters when I see them. I wish the dialogue (especially on the internet) was more civil -- but we've seen again and again that some people seem to think that the anonymity of the internet allows them to hide behind a screen name and issue ugly attacks.

I look forward to the end of the nomination battle and hope that the ugliness of both candidates' supporters won't make unity impossible in November.

And we've got to re-examine the way this dialogue plays out on the blogs - I find myself less and less drawn to these discussion at either DKos of MyDD because of the stupidity and irrationality of so much of the discussion. Maybe we need to re-examine the model that seems to encourage virtual screaming and vitriol instead of real discussion.

by lifelongdem 2008-02-18 06:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

"you're a stupid, lazy, f*cking idiot"   that's funny...that is what happens on mydd to Obama supporters.

by sndeak 2008-02-18 06:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I have never seen a Hillary Clinton supporter use those words to insult and Obama supporter. EVER. And I doubt you have either.

Saying that a campaign resembles a cult is not the same thing. It is simply a statement about the state of the campaign.

by americanincanada 2008-02-18 06:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Those exact words?  Under sides just called them beasts and sub-human.  Is that close enough?

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 08:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

In any political contest, there's bound to be 'nasty' things said about opposing candidates.  Frankly, as an Obama supporter, I think one could easily do a hatchet job on the Clinton Presidency but thus far, direct criticism of the 1993-2001 period has been quite tepid.  HRC supporters have been just as 'vitriolic' as BHO supporters and I have no problem with that.

by IrishObserver 2008-02-18 06:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

The ironic thing is that this site has become an outlet for the Clinton smear machine to sprew character assassination hit piece after hit piece against Clinton.  Then when people call you out on it (and YOU are one of the worst offenders, Andre), you get all high and mighty about itand cry foul.  Quit being such a hypocrite.

by NJIndependent 2008-02-18 06:30AM | 0 recs
I just went back and glanced through...

...All of my diaries, and whenever I've "attacked" Obama, I've provided links and sources to back up my claims.

I don't just write my opinion, I back my opinion up with facts that you can go and read for yourself.  And I've never impugned Sen. Obama's character unless you consider using the man's full and legal name a "character assasination."

by Andre Walker 2008-02-18 06:45AM | 0 recs
See What I mean.... For the Love of Pete....

I posted this above when someone suggested that it was a certainty that HRC's supporters had  the high road...it bears reposting down here...

*****

Baloney.  Any single nutjob can be compared unfavorably to the whole.  I could find umpteen examples of BOTH parties making threats, or suggesting that either is the anti-christ.  The HRC nuts are just as bad as the BO zealots.

My opinion that the thread should be deleted is only representative of its RELATIVE VALUE to the contest.  For cryin' out loud, we are posting over the behavior of a few fringe folks, rather than discussing important things like:

1) Electability and the effect of the candidate on congressional majorities

Ending the war

Energy policy

Where donations are coming from

What Howard dean is going to do about the primary delgates, etc.

These are topics worth having spritied but reasonable discussion on...not the vitriol spewed by each candidate's nuttier supporters.

Let's all get REAL.

by a gunslinger 2008-02-18 06:36AM | 0 recs
Electability

Note the following from:  http://www.presidentelectionpolls.com/

Number of electoral votes based on the latest polls for each state:
*    Hillary Clinton - 203
*    John McCain - 317

National Poll Averages by Month:

February
Hillary Clinton: 46.0    John McCain: 47.8

Number of electoral votes based on the latest polls for each state:
*    Barack Obama - 261
*    John McCain - 266

National Poll Averages by Month

February
Barack Obama: 48.5    John McCain: 45.3

Right now, HRC is not only behind in terms of % overall....she is getting SMOKED by mcCain in terms of electoral college projections!!!!

We MUST Coalesce around the stronger candidate...that candidate (regardless of GENDER or RACE) is Obama, who has only to make up 6 points in the electoral college as opposed to a whopping 70!!

Let's leave the finger-pointing and bruised egos behind and move FORWARD folks!!!!

by a gunslinger 2008-02-18 06:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Electability

Electoral college projections are absolutely ludicrious at this point in the game. the democrats and republicans are not even campaigning against eachother yet and no ne has savaged Obama yet. Get ready...they will.

by americanincanada 2008-02-18 06:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Electability

Well sure there is time, and as such the data here is a "snapshot"...but the trend here is UNDENIABLE.  Hillary's case will be much harder to make.  Also, I submit that she will lack the coat tails we need to make the gains in congress!!

Obama will have a number of advantages in the GE that HRC will not...one of them will obviosuly be a sense of momnetum and inherent support.  

by a gunslinger 2008-02-18 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Electability

Writing UNDENIABLE in caps does not make it any more accurate or true.

We are a nation at war. Hillary is the only one who can win in November. She has the gravitas and experience to be Commander in Chief, and to get us out of Iraq. National security will be, along with the economy a big part of the general election. National security always is important when you are a nation at war.

Hillary also has gravitas with regard to restoring a decimated economy, getting health care benefits for veterans, first responders, children, and her education and energy plans are lauded by teachers and environmentalists.

Hillary is the democrat who will win in November.

by seattlegonz 2008-02-18 09:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Electability..One other thought

I'll agree that Coat tails do not exist...but only when the candiates themesleves are damaged goods.

Bush had not coat tails in '04 because of iraq and the polarized electorate.  In '06, his lack of Coat tails and strength parleyed a slight dmeocratic majority.

In oreder to increase those marins, we NEED a candidate who is NOT damaged goods, and who is (for good, ill, or indifferent) a polarizing figure.  

Yes, the GOP machine will attack Obama, but he is better placed to waive off these attacks due ot the existing and NEW voters he brings to the electorate.  Also, we KNOW that HRC is damaged...why would we willingly start out disadvataging ourselves by fielding a candidate we KNOW will not be able to exapnd out majorities?

Again...brush aside pride, and let's gather around the strongest candidate...the one who will undoubtedly accumulate more primary voters and inspire a new dmeocratic majority.  

It would be politcal suicide to think that HRC can deliver anything more than a "just barely" win for herself... no ability to bring along gains in either house.

THAT is the big issue here.

by a gunslinger 2008-02-18 07:29AM | 0 recs
That is exactly why she is such a risk

Her negatives are so high.  

by Moonwood 2008-02-18 07:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Electability

Let's revisit these numbers after the GOP begins to attack Obama and see if they still hold true.

by Scope441 2008-02-18 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Good Post, but they are in cocoon mode - they do not care about outside and heading to be crashed sooner or later either in nomination or in general election. They are so idiotic for very simple reason: it is a Cult and Religion. When I posted something against their religion they simply disable my ability to post comments and diaries on dailykos.com . I called them since obamakos and members of the Cult - Obamaniaks and Obamacrats.
Since they incline eliminate any disagreeable posters, I perceive them as Nazis on their blog,
but they seemed do not care. It also reminded me white supremacists, but now it is obama supremacists.

For all practical purposes Dailykos is dead for open community and it is part of Obama Campaign and Obama Cult. Don't waste you time trying to change their mind.

by WeNeed3rdParty 2008-02-18 06:54AM | 0 recs
You Were Banned...

For spamming and repeatedly posting false "Obama is a Muslim" smears.  People who spam anything get banned eventually.  And people who have posted various Clinton era lies (Whitewater, Vince Foster stuff, etc) get banned too.

by Brillobreaks 2008-02-18 07:02AM | 0 recs
this is plain lie!

Your blunt lie just proving my point how idiotic and stupid you are.
You even did not check my diaries and comments before saying your shit:

I never posted anything "Obama is a Muslim" thing.
Just check this:
http://www.dailykos.com/user/WeNeed3rdPa rty
http://www.dailykos.com/user/WeNeed3rdPa rty/comments

I bet you incapable to acknowledge that you wrong and lier.
Well: most members of your Cult similar to you - you have a good company.

by WeNeed3rdParty 2008-02-18 07:21AM | 0 recs
Re: this is plain lie!

You mean the kind of company that can use a spell checker...or just plain spell?

Sorry there were so many mistakes I just had to :D

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: this is plain lie!

And where is the diarist to call out this guy who throws around insults such as "nazis" and "white supremacists", obviously not knowing anything about nazism or white supremacy. You don't need to be a historian to know that calling someone a nazi for not letting you blog on their site for whatever reason, justified or not, is pretty obtuse. And, really, just plain offensive. I'll do my part and call out the Obama idiots, if you do your part to call out the Clinton idiots. Let's clean up around here.

by cecilybecily 2008-02-18 02:35PM | 0 recs
Re: this is plain lie!

Nazis eliminated everybody who disagreed with them; it is exactly what obamakos is doing. it is not insult just the statement of the fact

by WeNeed3rdParty 2008-02-18 02:52PM | 0 recs
Re: this is plain lie!

Nazis killed people. Lots and lots of people. In horrible ways. I don't need to go any further with this. Your comments have been offensive and ignorant.

by cecilybecily 2008-02-18 07:30PM | 0 recs
My Story

I read the diary and I'm posting a comment without reading the comment thread -- I just don't have the stomach for it all anymore.

I may also post this as a diary, if I have the stomach to do that.

My story -- I've been a reader at the Daily Kos since 2004, loved the place, got alot of great news there.  I don't remember when I first registered but I know I didn't even post my first comment until two months ago let alone a diary -- I didn't feel quite "worthy" of the level of political discourse there.

I first attributed all the negativity about Clinton as a candidate to the perception of her as a middle of the road deeply flawed candidate.  Fair enough. The Daily Kos IS a self-defined "progressive" website, maybe Senator Clinton was simply not progressive enough.

But then I started to notice what would happen every time a diary went up in support of her -- a pile on of horrible comments from Obama supporters.  The Edwards people might take issue, the Obama people went for blood.

These weren't "trash the other guy" diaries -- these were "why I support Senator Clinton" diaries that immediately devolved into gruesome attacks not just on her, BUT ON HER SUPPORTERS.

the diariest would be attacked for being stupid, misinformed, war mongering, party to dirty politics and politics as usual, only identifying with her gender.

Myself I tried putting a few diaries out there asking everyone to just cool off and back off.  This was in January and early February.  I tried explaining in the most neutral way possible that we weren't doing the party any favors by alienating Clinton supporters with these ugly comments.  So they piled onto me.

Understand, you can't post anything on the Daily Kos as a self-identified Clinton supporter, no matter how balanced, no matter how conciliatory, even if you do not put out one negative word on Obama without being beaten in the comments with personal attacks.

Then there was the sexism.  The off the cuff smart ass comments from Obama supporters that stank of it.  But we couldn't talk about that either without getting shut down.  one diary in particular I remember that tried to discuss sexism degraded into a debate, ON A PROGRESSIVE BLOG, as to whether sexism even anywhere exists anymore, full of assertions that it isn't damaging and the "feministas" had to stop "whining" about it.

Then the outright thuggery started -- troll rating any comment that was pro-Clinton.  Mass recommending any pro-Obama/anti-Clinton diary no matter how superficial or poorly informed.

One by one the few remaining patient reasoned voices that supported Senator Clinton disappeared, I assume many, like myself, to turn up over here.

Within all that I read where dozens of former Edwards supporters were fed up with it all too.  And here's the result --

At first I struggled knowing I want a Democrat in the Whitehouse.  I want to work for the candidate, but I have serious reservations about walking into an Obama campaign office if I am going to be working side-by-side with the type of people who post on the Daily Kos.  I am so concerned by this "trash and burn" mob mentality I'm going to have to sit this one out.  That is truly Obama's loss if you multiply that by a hundred or even ten.

Then it went to the next sad step in my mind -- what sort of candidate inspires this sort of venom and ruthlessness "winner take all and f&ck you loser" mentality I've never seen before outside of  a Young Republicans street rally?  What kind of persons is this candidate attracting and "inspiring"?

Every time a commentor here or there writes "well, good riddance, dumbass we are going to win anyway" I have to wonder just what sort of "change" we are looking at.

Does an Obama Movement mean all dissent is unwelcome?  Any who challenge or question will be shown the door?  THAT'S where the "Kool-aid" slam is coming from -- this idea that one can't even QUESTION the Obama campaign, call him to task on ANYTHING without bringing down, not defense of him, but personal rabid attacks on the questioner.

Anyone who can't see the danger in that hasn't read their history.

Then I read the disclaimer -- don't judge the candidate by a few kooks on a blog. (and if you do you are STUPID, Stupid)   Well, it's damn hard not to.  Because there must be something about this campaign, if not the candidate, that is driving this mob rule and outright hatred of the other side.

No, it doesn't apply to all Obama supporters, there are certainly civil and reasoned ones.  And yes, there are Clinton supporters on this site that get just as far into the muck.  but the fact remains that while Clinton supporters have listened to months if not years of their candidate being misrepresented, smeared and trashed Obama supporters seem unwilling to tolerate even a minute of it.  The loyalty isn't just fierce, it's  rabid.  

FOR ONCE I'd like a public dialogue on the misgivings I have about Obama that doesn't immediately devolve into attacks on my person for asking or become derailed into how much worse a candidate Clinton is.  It's like I'm not ALLOWED to have misgivings and seek answers to them,  a civilized debate on the merits of Obama will not occur here, there or anywhere because Obama supporters simply will not allow it.  

If this isn't a cult mentality I don't know what the hell is.  Not one that effect ALL Obama supporters, but enough of them to scare the crap right of me when it comes to supporting his candidacy.  

And if it's scaring me I assure you it is going to scare the general electorate if you unleash that sort of venom on anyone even leaning McCain.  You cannot blugeon people into insignificance in November.

sometimes I have to wonder if all the most reactionary Obama "supporters" are not actually GOP trolls.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-02-18 07:03AM | 0 recs
Reactionary Supporters...

sometimes I have to wonder if all the most reactionary Obama "supporters" are not actually GOP trolls.
Some are no doubt.  So are some of the Hillary 'supporters'.  Some are just regular, old fashioned trolls out for the attention and mischief.  And some really are just reactionaries who don't understand how much damage they're doing to their candidate and our party.  Most aren't really hard to sniff out.  Ignore them.  

FOR ONCE I'd like a public dialogue on the misgivings I have about Obama that doesn't immediately devolve into attacks on my person for asking or become derailed into how much worse a candidate Clinton is.  It's like I'm not ALLOWED to have misgivings and seek answers to them,  a civilized debate on the merits of Obama will not occur here, there or anywhere because Obama supporters simply will not allow it.

You have to filter out the crap no matter what you're reading, blogs included.  You're never going to get a pure and totally helpful set of answers if you ask anywhere around here.  I'd be happy to give a few though...  

And by the way...  All the cult/messiah/christ/koolaid/maniacs comments isn't helpful if you want good answers and not attacks.  Try asking questions about Hillary's positions after calling her supporters warmongers/shrill/harpies/etc.  It's just rude, and nobody responds well to rudeness.

by Brillobreaks 2008-02-18 07:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Heh, you know they should visit this site to see how the other half lives.

by MNPundit 2008-02-18 07:07AM | 0 recs
Trolls?

Could very well be Grassroots.  I have been actively working for Obama in IW...and have NEVER, EVER met or had a discussion with anyone who was as vitiriolic as you describe.

I have faced some terrible online criticism ffrom HRC supporters, calling me sexist, suggestiin I was muslim for not supporting HRC,...perhaps THESE are Trolls, too?  What do you think?

Also, i have tried 4 times to post my appreciation for Hillary and support for Barack on her website...written in a very kind, reasonable way...but the webmaster NEVER allows my postings.  THAT is CENSORSHIP...especially when I have not violated the posting "agreement"!

I find THAT as, if not more distasteful than havingto deal with a mean jerk.  Censorship?!  Really?  

by a gunslinger 2008-02-18 07:19AM | 0 recs
Post this at Dkos

and then let us know.

There are a few related diaries that have strangely made it to the rec'd list at Dkos.

The absurdity of Daily Obama
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2 /18/7269/76495/773/458913

Cautionary words from Barack for DKos: "Tone, Truth, and the Democratic Party"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/18/ 1172/70794/821/458865

Actually, I am not sure if that last one made it on the rec'd list, but it should.

by kevin22262 2008-02-18 07:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Post this at Dkos

The latter DID make the rec list.  The fact that a diary like that can make it suggests a large chunk of readers who are less zealous Obama supporters.  It's a good sign.  Unfortunately it's lately been the case that the shriller posters get the attention... both here and on dKos.

by svotaw1992 2008-02-18 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Post this at Dkos

It doesn't help that "Kos" has chosen to take such an uncivil tone towards Hillary.  He fans the flames.

by Larissa 2008-02-18 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Post this at Dkos

What seriously?  And this site isn't doing the same?  Man I like going to both cause the GOP can't even come with attacks like this for both candidates.  They can just go to either one depending on who the nominee is and pick up a premade playbook.

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Post this at Dkos

No.  There is a civil, mature tone at this site.  If "Kos", as an unabashed Obama enthusiast, presented his arguments in a civil, mature tone, I believe Hillary supporters would feel far more welcome there.

As it is, I feel like I'm stepping into a junior high school boys locker room every time I go to Daily Kos.  

And the common complaint by women feeling unwelcome at Daily Kos was voiced long before this particular race.

by Larissa 2008-02-18 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Post this at Dkos

Under sides likened some obama supporters to sub-human beasts and when I pointed out to him that it could be taken the wrong way and he might want to watch out for that kind of language he made a personal threat against me.

In this very thread.  Is this the kind of civil, mature tone you are speaking of?

Side story which is always good at a party:  I got knocked unconscious in my jr. high locker room horsing around and all the other guys we're so afraid we were all gonna get in trouble that they carried me off to a weight bench and tried splashing water on me to wake me up...only it was summer in Texas so the water was warm and when I came around I thought they had peed on me.

Well, trust me, it is way funnier in person.

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Post this at Dkos

I don't know man, I don't know how else this is supposed to be taken...

"I have had exactly enough of those of you that so easily label the rest of us racist. You have no idea who you have insulted and what the repercussions will be."

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Post this at Dkos

Example of the mature, civil tone set by "Kos" (let's see, women get offended for a pretty good reason, so "Kos" in reply trashes womens studies, curses, and uses the b word - sweet.)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/6/1 125/10793

by Larissa 2008-02-18 08:47AM | 0 recs
The Tone...

Seems to change depending on who you're a supporter of.  None of us like seeing our candidate attacked (even when we know the attacks are valid), and it makes us all defensive.  

I'm supporting Obama in the primary, I read the diaries here and their tone totally turns me off.  The DailyKos ones... not so much.  And yet, I find myself troll rating tons of comments directed at Clinton and her supporters over there, and pretty much tuning out a lot of the diaries I know will be stupid even before I read past the title.

If I stand back and look at the diary list with as much impartiality as one can muster, they aren't really much different.  Stupid attacks, mindless repetition, trolls (both the obvious and the not so obvious), worshipful recommending, and a small number of really good, smart, well written pieces... oftentimes overlooked.

by Brillobreaks 2008-02-18 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

This is embarrassing to the party.  And will ultimately be to the candidate (see Dean, Howard).  This is not politics - and no, that's NOT a good thing.

 

by Larissa 2008-02-18 07:47AM | 0 recs
wake up from your nightmare

its not that bad.  I feel sorry for you that you are so disillusioned.

by Moonwood 2008-02-18 07:49AM | 0 recs
You called him

a misogynist twice with no reason.  Do you have a reason? or is just because he is a man?

by Moonwood 2008-02-18 11:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

First ran into these behaviors during the McClurkin fiasco. He was the 'exgay' preacher selected to headline an Obama event in SC. A number of gay men and lesbians at DKos went ballistic on this. First we were told this was a simple error. Nothing to get excited about. Then that we should shut up because Obama is so good on gay issues even though he doesn't have to. Along with this came a whole lot of talk about how AA's have big issues about gay people, so we should be less visible.

Anyway, it turned out that McClurkin was the emcee of the event. The 'balance' we were promised was a white minister who prayed for a moment and then left. McClurkin took over the event and spewed anti-gay venom. So, on to the next uproar. Next we heard that gay people were not important, that we are not very popular, that wwe should start up. Since October, my experience in bringing up this issue is that it will be trivialized, said to be unimportant, told that we are getting all worked up about nothing, etc.

Gays tend to be the most vulnerable of part of the progressive movement. This is where a stab in the back can pay off with out much loss. He did it and got away with it. The only candidate who had an event picketed by progressives is Obama.

I won't vote for him either.

by DaleA 2008-02-18 08:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I remember that episode. It was particulary ugly. People were calling Obama a homophobe which wasn't really helpful but the event did give me pause.

You know what's odd? I bet a lot of gay people would vote for McCain over Obama strictly over that one issue. Might be why Obama polls poorly against McCain in Mass.

by Ga6thDem 2008-02-18 03:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

At Independent Gay Forum there are a number of libertarian type McCain supporters. They have not very plausible reasons for voting for him. So, that is possible.

Exit polls show Hillary carrying over 60% of three key Democratic demographic groups: Latinos, Asians, Gays and Lesbians. Which says something about Obama's appeal.

by DaleA 2008-02-18 04:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

This whole thing has been interesting to watch. I've been an Obama supporter from the start, posting here and at DKos. Back in the Fall, it was as uphill battle on both sites: DKos was all for Edwards, and then to a lessor extent Dodd, Biden, Kucinich, Richardson, and yes, even a few for Hillary. Obama had his supporters, but definitely far below Edwards. Over here at MyDD it has always been Hillary, then Edwards, and a few hardy souls making the case for Obama.

In the heat of the beginning of the primary season, not sure the exact date, but Kos conducted a "purge" of sorts against people who were abusing troll ratings. A lot of people lost their ability to recommend or troll-rote diaries and comments. I wonder if more Hillary people than Obama got caught up in that proportionally, but after that, and especially after Edwards dropped out, things got much better for Obama at Dkos. Meanwhile, over here, it got really rabidly anit-Obama, pro-Hillary, with Obama smear diaries beginning to dominate the rec list.

Now, things seem to have totally separated out. DKos is for Obama, and MyDD is for Hillary.

Of course, as an Obama supporter I reject the suggestion that Obama's online supporters are worse or less civil than Hillary supporters, on balance. And I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of supposed "supporters" of both, who are really not. My only suggestion is to ignore the smears, lies, deceptions, ad hominen insults and all of the rest and focus on getting either one of these candidates elected in November.

by dmc2 2008-02-18 08:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Death Threats

Are you a building 7 person?  Cause that really sounds like something you would hear from one of them.

You realized you also just called some of the large portion of blacks in the states that have voted "beasts" and implicated that they are sub-human.  Better angels my friend, better angels.

I'm just sayin', you might want to tone down the inflammatory rhetoric before you travel down a road from whence you cannot return.

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Death Threats

I realize you probably aren't from the south but those were the exact types of things that were used as racist remarks.  And I didn't call you a racist.  I warned you that remarks like that can come off that way to people who have been repeatedly exposed to them in a racist fashion.

I like the personal follow up threat though.  That was a nice touch.  You have definitely made the case that only supporters of your candidates opponent would do such a thing.

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Death Threats

And no, I pointed out you might want to think better of what you post because that could be perceived that way.

Like I have said, spend some real quality time in some not so quality places in the deep south and you would know what I mean.  It is the same thing as going on and on about "States Rights" back in the day there.  It wasn't about the 9th amendment, it was about segregation and everyone knew it.  To a lot of good ole boys down there it still is.

by kasjogren 2008-02-18 08:48AM | 0 recs
Movements like this always have vile elements

As one who despises this movement, I am not in favor of any curbs on the behavior of its members.  I want them to feel fully empowered to behave with as much arrogance, disrespect, aggression, stupidity, and other mob-like behaviors as their gleeful spirits direct them.

So, please, stop demanding apologies or curbs on their base and primitive instincts.  If you really want these people to fail, you would like the opposition to have as much ammunition as possible.  

   

by lombard 2008-02-18 08:33AM | 0 recs
One Last Call 4 Civility...Trolls, get out! 1 Fact

Annefrank must be a GOP troll trying to drive a wedge between reasonable folks.  Someone suggested earlier that the Vitriolic jerks from BOTH camps might well be trolls trying to stir things up.... When I read crap comparing Obama supporters to Bush people, I think there may well be something to it.

Obama has run the more agile, more thoughtful, and more visionary campaign.  By her own words, HRC assumed that this would be done by 2/5.  Her own sense of self-entitlement has led to her near-demise...not the postings of Trolls or overly zealous nincompoops!

Sheesh!

by a gunslinger 2008-02-18 08:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

quotes from hillary supports in this diary alone:

I thought i'd seen it all from the Obamadroids...
I feel like Obama is a potential despot.
I doubt that Obama supporters care about the party, though. They are "inspired" too much by Obama to care there is actually a party to represent the will of people.
The whole [Obama] campaign is completely out of line - homophobic, misogynist, belligerant and dishonest.
Obama is clearly endorsing the thug behavior we're witnessing.
...but what is really sad is the fact that the Obama supporters just don't get it. They just don't get that they're freaking people out by their methods of promoting their candidate.
You offer no proof, only keep repeating the same lie over and over again, getting louder with every rant. In Obama land this might very well serve as the truth.
Don't Mess With Obamamania and you and your family will be safe.
They'd better cut it out because they are driving people away from Obama with their totalitarian thuggery and their triumphalist rhetoric.
What is humorous in that weird as hell I can hardly believe this shit kind of way is that the Obamaniacs are acting worse than the Neocons ever did.
Hillary supporters and Obama supprters are NOT equally bad. Obama supporters are way worse than Hillary supporters.
You speak for many who recognize Obamabots as the new Bushies - spending more time smearing the character of other candidates and their supporters than posting reasons to support Obama.
I think it is an intentional Chicago mob style campaign designed to bend the will of the individuals that either do not support Obama or write things that cast him in a light that is less than radiant.
Some of the so-called progressives that claim to supporting Obama are the worst of these rabid beasts.
[Obama supporters] think that insulting supporters of other candidates personally is the same as talking about policy or talking about why we don't think a candidate has the right experience or character to be president.
Obamabots are the new Bushies!
Saying that a campaign resembles a cult is not the same thing. It is simply a statement about the state of the campaign.
Obama. himself, goes on tv and engages in blatantly misogynist rhetoric.
I've thought [Obama] was a total lightweight and not terribly worthwhile human being...
[Obama] is jerk though and a misogynist.
[Obama supporters] are so idiotic for very simple reason: it is a Cult and Religion.
It also reminded me white supremacists, but now it is obama supremacists.

i thought it was only fair to point this out on a diary entitled "Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!".
by supsupsup 2008-02-18 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

okay, so just in the search for balance and fairness I'm going to post the comments I found offensive on just this comment thread which, I have to stress, is relatively mild from the Obama side.

"So if I can find an example of a Hillary Clinton supporter doing something crazy, will you just sit out the election entirely?
This stuff is stupid.

I provided direct evidence of the insane Clintoonista attacks on Barack.

I'm getting used to these silly Clinton partisans who see misogyny everwhere

So what is your thesis? What is your point?  That you're embarrassed by picking Hillary as your candidate?

The only thing that is hurting the Democratic party is charisma-deprived, anti-inspiration ranting of Bill and Hillary (Billary) in favor of themselves over and above the Democratic party.  The royal sense of entitlement that the White House is theirs, that they are only ones smart enough to run things.  Well, you can wrap that rhetoric up in the blue Gap dress that it belongs in.

You would rather (none / 0)
work for a corporate money monger than an ethical person - I get it.

It that how Hillary helps poor people by shilling for corporations?

Being a douchebag isn't reserved for being a Clinton or an Obama supporter.  It is however, seemingly a prerequisite for being a thread commenter on MyDD.com.

So let me respond in kind by impugning your motives: You're fabricating this stuff because Hillary Clinton is losing.

So, when the Clintoonistas whine, I realize that's due to Hillary just amazing collapse.

Annefrank must be a GOP troll trying to drive a wedge between reasonable folks."

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-02-18 09:45AM | 0 recs
Shocking!

You mean... both sides have rude people on them?  Well I'll be.

by Brillobreaks 2008-02-18 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I appreciate you taking the time to post quotes from Obama supporters. It helps to support the point I am making that neither side is above the other as this diary suggests.

by supsupsup 2008-02-18 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

The rhetoric on this site has gotten pretty obnoxious.  I used to look at the Huffington post, but it is impossible to read any comments that don't include rude and vile insults.  Then I tried to look at DailyKos, which I very much enjoyed reading before this election cycle, but again, pretty rude commentary.  When I first found this site, the commentary, while slightly pro-Clinton (which seemed fine to offset the 2 previous sites I mentioned) was not rude and insulting.  That has changed to the point that I can't even read half the posts and comments.  People - grow up.  Maybe I'm showing my age here, but did your parents teach you nothing about civilized behavior?  I would much enjoy a spirited debate about issues, or why you prefer your candidate over mine, but can we stop acting like petulent children with these ridiculous arguments?  One says Billary or Hill-Billy, the responder says Barack Hussein Obama, or Osama, is this really necessary? I try to say to myself that maybe most of the most offensive bloggers are just young and don't know any better, but as the mother of 3 daughters, I know my children would know better, and so should people on these blogs.  I have disagreed or agreed with many comments on these posts(although I haven't authored one yet), but hopefully I have not been responsible for contributing to this obnoxious rhetoric.  Ok, I'm done - bring on the name calling. I'm ready.

by AnnC 2008-02-18 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Yes, as a Maters level Social Worker who has worked her entire life for civil rights I have been shocked and brokenhearted to see Obama supporters open their mouths and spew forth nothing but 15 years of the Repug's hatred.

Rush did his job. Only now they are called Obama Supporters.

by IndyRobin 2008-02-18 09:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Well put Andre! My hat is off to you as well.

by forhill 2008-02-18 09:22AM | 0 recs
Diarist should cut this crap out

YOu attempt to smear all supporters of Obama by what 1 percent of people do.  That is crap.

I met President Bill Clinton in person last November even though Hillary was not my candidate.

I shook his hand, said it was nice to meet him, we were civil, I never brought up the presidential race, and then the next person met him.

by bigdavefromqueens 2008-02-18 09:24AM | 0 recs
Does that mean it is safe to go there?

If the rabble turn this place into another slum?

by lombard 2008-02-18 12:17PM | 0 recs
I have an account at DU

and have never been kicked out.

by bigdavefromqueens 2008-02-18 12:27PM | 0 recs
Perhaps I'm against crap

All the lies that were spewed against the clintons, from Vince Foster to Mena to Willey to Broderick GETS DENOUNCED BY ME.

This is about honesty.  For example there is no REzko land deal scandal but some of you in the Hillary campaign promote this lie.

Also, guess what?  the Clintons did NOTHING wrong with Whitewater.  I think you would be offended if I insinuated otherwise.

by bigdavefromqueens 2008-02-18 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Jeebus. What tripe.

by Zeke12 2008-02-18 10:08AM | 0 recs
You said it!

The irony and hypocrisy of the divisive rhetoric of Obama's supporters while they shout from the roof tops about Obama unifying America (and the world) is truly stunning.

If these are the types of supporters he attracts, and this is how they behave toward fellow dems, I am brimming with confidence that they are indeed the one's we've been waiting for.

How can Obama claim that he can unify the country, heal the world even, if he can't even unify the party? In fact he (and his supporters) are causing a deep fissure and deep resentment with voters like me (a diehard Dem).

I'm wondering if Obama's supporters have any notion that if their candidate does indeed get the nomination that they will need us Clinton supporters? Well, Obama seems quite confident that we will support him. Really?? Why would I do that? Fear? Fear of the Republican winning? Now who is fear mongering?? You know what, he is going to have to earn my vote, and right now I'm not sure that is possible. I am very angry.

by dwj 2008-02-18 10:33AM | 0 recs
Generalizations are Fun.

Clearly every Obama supporter is like that.  Every single one of us.  No exceptions.  None at all.  Just scary screeching cultists.

by Brillobreaks 2008-02-18 11:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Generalizations are Fun.

That's not what I got from this diary entry.

by zenful6219 2008-02-18 11:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Generalizations are Fun.

You're absolutely right. I should have prefaced it. I should have said many of Obama's supporters who are posting on liberal blogs.

by dwj 2008-02-18 11:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Well, if they hacked Bill in there, there were lots of witnesses who see how bad Obots supporters can be.  Hope they will spread the words.   Their action won't do their candidate any good.

by JoeySky18 2008-02-18 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Only thing is, the Obama supporter, who heckled Bill Clinton, a former President of the United States (let's not forget that!), was doing it for the cameras and the press. He couldn't have cared less about what the people at the rally thought about his actions.

by zenful6219 2008-02-18 11:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

This Obama fervor is very scary because there is no rationale for it. He talks like a Baptist preacher and people go into a frenzy. I hope to god it's not too late for people to wake up. He is just another politician and just as slick as any of them. If what we are seeing now with these "followers" is any indication of how things will be, I shudder to think of what will happen if he takes office.

by LBJ 2008-02-18 11:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

This diary is disingenuous...the author attempts to be the voice of reason calling for civility but blames Obama supporters (when there are Hillary supporters who are being uncivil) and calls Obama supporters "Obamanics", which is a quite uncivil thing to do.

Mydd.com is getting really nasty.

by foxsucks81 2008-02-18 11:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I hate to admit it, but, as a Clinton supporter, I have used the "Obamaniacs" term. I'm not proud of it. But, I will say, after a while of being called names like liar, shithead, Shillary, Hill/Billy, fucktard, idiot, moron, etc., for doing nothing more than saying I support a non-Obama candidate, it wears on a person's demeanor. One loses it and sinks to the same level. So, who started the name calling? I have no idea, but I am absolutely convinced that this diary is 100% spot-on.

by zenful6219 2008-02-18 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Thanks for your candor, but I don't think it's spot on.

First of all, we should all be wary of factionalism.  It's a well-known fact proven in sociology, psychology, and history that persons who adhere to an ideology or group tend to adapt their perceptions to ignore failings in their group while amplifying them in their opposition.

Second, no one could do any sort of scientific study that would show who is more to blame.  The internet is terrible anonymous.  Some Hillary supporters could pose as Obama supporters.  Some Obama supporters could pose as Hillary supporters.  Some Republicans could pose as either.  Some malcontents could generate numerous accounts on multiple websites and sow the seeds of dissension.

Please, let's all just take a deep breath and acknowledge that this online factionalism is destructive and there is no way to pin blame on anyone.  In fact, doing so just perpetuates it.

by foxsucks81 2008-02-18 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I'm a Hillary Clinton supporter. I also used to be a big Americablog fan. That was until the last couple of weeks, when Americablog became an anti-Hillary blog. They don't moderate their comments, so I began to receive unmerciful attacks from pro-Obama supporters, generally the same 3-4 people, which I will refer to as the 'pack.'

All I had to do to invoke the pack's rage was to express my support of Clinton and/or talk of her positions on various subjects. I was called all kinds of names like stupid, crazy, fool, a Shillary hill/billy fan, shithead, retard, and on and on.

At times, I would get tired of the relentless Hillary bashing and would mention a negative Obama news story. Immediately, the 'pack' would gang up on me, and call me a liar even though I provided links to the mainstream media sources. They just did not want to read anything negative about Obama.  

Now, on Americablog, if you're a Hillary supporter, you must keep it quiet or face unbelievable rage and close-mindedness. So, I don't go there anymore.

Worse than that, being a life-long Democrat, I'm ashamed to admit it, but, if Clinton doesn't get the nomination, I might not vote in the general election.

by zenful6219 2008-02-18 11:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

If you do not want to vote for Obama in the general election because you cannot support his policies or candidacy, that is one thing.  

But to not support a candidate because some rabid fans made nasty comments on an online forum is  quite ridiculous.  

Politics is competitive, and both campaigns are being quite civil.  Some people on the internet use the forum of anonymity to express anger and rage; people of all backgrounds, with all sorts of reasons, do this.  We should not let this incredibly small group of people rule our decision-making process.

by foxsucks81 2008-02-18 11:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

The blogosphere is a highly significant part of both campaigns. If Obama were to at least try to publicly moderate the overly hostile groups of supporters and do it sooner rather than later, it might make a difference. It's a turn off.

by zenful6219 2008-02-18 11:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Please, the rabid crazy rude people are an infintesimally small portion of his support.  If he had to apologize for every malcontent online who said something rude, the campaign would be ground to a halt.

by foxsucks81 2008-02-18 05:37PM | 0 recs
Americablog???

What happened over there?  I used to visit nearly every day but I don't recognize it anymore.  

by Radiowalla 2008-02-18 11:42AM | 0 recs
because of 3 or 4 people?

this is an election...there is competition...every competitive primary democrat and republican has had its share of negativity. You will be in the minority.  Whoever wins the democratic nomination, democrats WILL unite behind the winner, either way.

by petercjack 2008-02-18 11:42AM | 0 recs
Re: because of 3 or 4 people?

This is not my first Democratic primary. I've voted since Carter and I do not remember this kind of animosity among Democrats. I've read that something similar happened in 1968 and it cost the Democratic nominee the election.

by zenful6219 2008-02-18 12:01PM | 0 recs
this feels too much like 68

Makes me wonder what it's going to look like outside of the convention.

Of course then there were clear policy differences about ending the war and a draft going on -- so you had a true life or death struggle in some young people's minds.

This seems more of a superficial blood feud type thing -- like a soccer rivalry gone bezerk -- than anything deeply ideological.  

What we all have lost sight of is the 170 pound smirking chimp in the room that got us all here.  Most of this is probably the seven year pent up desire to kick his ass up into his throat.  

Every political website out there ought to have a picture of him on the front -- just to remind everyone what we are really viscerally pissed about -- and it isn't each other.

Although I do wish we could all call a truce on condescention towards the other side.  God that grates on me, even when I do it.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-02-18 01:09PM | 0 recs
Oh, and the term Obamanics is a term of honor?

I believe in vigorous debates and i totally agree that all dialogue should be respectful and not filled with inflammatory language.  that being said, there are two points that i disagree.

1.  There has been mudslingin all the way around.  Calling people who support Obamaniacs, as you just did in your title, in my view IS inflammatory and against the very thing you are railing about.

2.  I will not lump all clinton supporters as being a certain way if you will do the same.  Deal?

by petercjack 2008-02-18 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

The real tragedy will be IF/when he wins the nomination, and the Radical Regressives have achieved what they set out to do -- then we'll see the reality of the "support" he's getting in the press and with Republicans.

Many of us are very aware of what's going on, and understand the set up. Many are so wrapped up in the "movement" they won't even see it when it starts happening. Maybe not even when President McCain is being sworn in.

by jen 2008-02-18 12:02PM | 0 recs
you make a strong point

I got so sick of the froth at DailyKos that I wont return to that site.  I figure since I've been a lurker here for six years it was time I got a user name and started participating in a saner dialogue.  

But let's be fair.  Many Obama supporters are very reasonable people who are supporting their candidate in reasonable ways.

I think it is human nature, however, not to notice the bile unless it is directed at you.  Since I've been a target of some pretty vicious behavior on the part of some Obama supporters (including people in my work place against whom I have had to file harassment charges) I know for a fact that this behavior IS a problem.

I am not a sheep and I refuse to be herded.  I'd like to be able to give my vote to Obama if Hillary loses the primary, but I'm having trouble seeing past the nastiness of his supporters.  When the public media starts to take notice, it truly is a problem.  And I don't see any indication that Obama is trying to rein in this behavior.  

I don't like bullies.  I won't vote for one.  

by mtnspirit 2008-02-18 12:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I would be disrepectful to any president who is -- or was -- corrupted by power.

by DoubleDs 2008-02-18 12:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

As a Democrat and Hillary supporter, I think I'll sit out this election if my candidate of choice loses due to media bias and slandering.  I hope all of Hillary's supporters consider this  or join my cause or vote for a independent. Obama is now cutting into Hillary leads in Texas--if this happens in Ohio and Pennsylvania, I'm not watching the "Democratic National Convention." Additionally, I will discontinue watching any news in America: this goes for CNN, MSNBC, and FOX. Now, I will continue to watch C-SPAN. After the rancid display of Obama supporters loathing for Hillary, I can not see myself voting for this candidate. Regardless of who nominates who on the Supreme Court, if Obama is elected, many of his supporters will defend him vigorously--even in his mistakes. There is word that Obama will jolt the party if he loses the nomination and run an independent campaign with Michael Bloomberg as vice president and a near- $1 billion campaign warchest.

by Check077 2008-02-18 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I couldn't agree with you more. The only way I see this whole thing working out is if Clinton wins the nomination and puts Obama on the ticket. If Obama wins the nomination I believe McCain will win the presidency.

The press has been unbelievably biased against the Clintons. President Clinton is getting bad press for the heckler's behavior. The man can't sneeze without getting hammered in the press. Obama has already played the race card. There will be a backlash.

Many Hillary supporters will sit on there hands or pull the lever for McCain come November if she's not on the ballot, I can guarantee that.

by mmorang 2008-02-18 12:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Civility is a fine thing.  I expect no one to agree with me.  But I do think respectful disagreement, whenever possible, is a good thing to strive for.  And of course, there are thoughtful, respectful supporters on both sides of this campaign.

I do honestly believe that Hillary has received the worst treatment in terms of the media and the opponent's overly enthusiastic supporters.  And I think a grave political mistake has been made by Democrats trashing the Clintons.

I also believe the blogosphere, as the government, as corporations, as the world is still an unwelcome and often hostile place for a woman in many ways.  I don't know what the answer is, all I know is I am tired.

by Larissa 2008-02-18 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Very nice, you get to paint everyone who supports Obama with the same brush! And without even a trace of self awareness at having done so.

Yes, because of the guy at the Clinton event every supporter of Obama wants to shout down the former President.

Yes, because of Ben Smith at Politico, all online supporters of Obama are the exact same.

Yes, because of the incident with Tavis all supporters of Obama are willing and ready to send death threats to people who criticize Obama.

It makes perfect sense!

Based on andrewalker08's diary here I will now assume that all members of MyDD who write diaries are jackasses. I won't belittle Clinton's supporters, I'll just belittle people who make broad assumptions about millions of people based on a few very small examples.

by x 2008-02-18 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Well, considering that every single Clinton supporter, myself included, has dealt with daily abuse from Obama's fans if we express anything remotely favorable about our candidate, then you'll have to forgive us.

I do love that the Obama fans spend so much time attacking and seem to have no grasp on policy issues, or why anyone should vote for him (besides that whole "inspirational speeches" thing.)  Where's the beef? Oh wait.. it's been recalled, never mind.

by Catriley sez 2008-02-18 02:01PM | 0 recs
Poor choice of language...

If you actually want to bridge the gap, you should avoid using inflammatory rhetoric, such as "Obamaniacs", particularly in your title. To make a parallel, an Obama fan would be unwise to go on talkleft and write about "Hillocrites" in attempting to propose a truce.  Degrading the opinions of others through sophomoric terminology is really more of a Rush Limbaugh technique, don't you think?

If you can show me a major liberal website where the comments about Hillary are as vile and idiotic as any Obama-related post at taylormarsh.com, I'll make a donation to the Clinton 2008 campaign.  And these are not the occasional nutty trolls who get smacked down by the majority, it's the status quo over there..

by netsak 2008-02-18 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

I left my beloved Democratic Underground after being a proud and active member for 7 years, because of the venomous attacks of Obama's fans.  

I honestly don't understand why they can't just support their candidate instead of engaging in scorched-Earth activism, hellbent on destroying anyone that does not agree with them.  It would amaze me if anyone with a lick of common decency that had supported any of the other candidates who dropped out would consider supporting him after the treatment they received from his fans.

I was interested in his campaign at first, then decided it was more about Edwards or Clinton for me. But it was the actions and the viciousness of Obama fans that sealed the deal for me.  

The kinds of hateful attacks and name-calling I've seen in support of Obama are nothing short of what we more seasoned politicos saw from the likes of Rush Limbaughs' "ditto-heads" or worse.. from the Ann Coulter fans.  

Only from Obama's fans have I seen degrading comments about Hillary and Chelsea, and about female members of Hillary's campaign. Only the females, though.. which tells you something. The comments are rude, appearance based, and really straight out of FreeRepublic.  It frightens me if this is considering "uniting" the Country. It's uniting alright.. uniting the loser wing-nuts from Rove's Party with their soulmates on the Left.  How quaint.

by Catriley sez 2008-02-18 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

"what sane American wants to be associated with a candidate that attracts individuals who will disrespect a former President of the United States."

Is the implication here that, because some crazies support Obama, all Obama supporter's are crazy? That's what it reads like; if so, the same (deeply faulty) reasoning obviously applies to every major candidate: unless you think HRC has no nut-so supporters.

by seand 2008-02-18 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

And if you do not vote, you have just made us all one step closer to another 8 years of awful. You know, those judges seats are damn important to us all, especially every woman. I promise Obama would nominate a pro-choice judge. I know it. I know at least his wife would never let him do otherwise. I'm truly sorry you have gotten yourself so worked up and angry this election. I'm sorry some nasty Obama supporters have offended you. I am. But you will have offended me and countless others a thousand times worse by not voting. And if a Repub were to win, would you be able to sleep at night? I wouldn't.

by cecilybecily 2008-02-18 02:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!
I recommended your diary because of this paragraph:
"Now I'm not going to start calling out names, but some of the caustic rhetoric that I see from many Obama supporters both here on MyDD and over at Daily Kos is reminiscent of the "don't you dare say anything against President Bush" rhetoric spewed forth by the Republicans right after September 11th."
This is what has turned me against Senator Obama, in large part.
by georgiapeach 2008-02-18 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

 I'm just appalled at the posts I continue to see from Obama supporters.  I'm totally turned off.

I'm truly shocked by the attacks on Bill Clinton.  He made me proud to be a Democrat and I thought he was a great President.  It amazes me that so many Democrats are turning against him with a vengeance much like that of extremist Republicans.

I've voted Democrat since 1968 but for the first time, I'm hedging my bets. I'm not ready to get in lockstep with the Obama forces.  

When I look at what is happening on MyDD and Daily Kos right now I'm reminded of the hateful tones that were everyday language between the Ned Lamont and Joe Leiberman followers.  I though Leiberman was treated like crap and wasn't surprised when he decided to run as an Independent.  Maybe if he had been treated with a tad bit of respect, he might have disappeared with grace following the primary election. The fact that he won in the GE only goes to prove that Americans tend to dislike someone who kicks their opponent when they are down.  I suspect Obama's starting to get close to Ned Lamont and that's not good for the Democrats come November.

by bentlife 2008-02-18 03:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Myself?  The entire Bill Clinton charm was lost on me.  I appreciated having a Democrat in the Whitehouse but even before the sex scandals his policy making annoyed me. I'm so disenchanted with the man I've turned down a couple opportunities to shake his hand.
Hillary Clinton I just never quite connected with.  I liked her attitude in the Whitehouse but I think I bought into alot of the right wing bullshat about her.  And I was put off by her public demeanor during the Lewinsky mess because just once I wanted to see her haul off on him somehow.
It was only once she started running for president that I both came to like her and came to understand her accomplishments independent of Bill.  And since then I don't confuse the two of them.

That said, I think it's ridiculous to try to pin a racist label on either of them.  Until two months ago the large majority of the African American community deeply respected and appreciated both of them.  His office is in Harlem, for cripes sake.  His comment was stupid and dismissive but I can well imagine him saying Romney winning in Utah is like his father winning in Utah and no one thinking a thing of it.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-02-18 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

These comments all so sound staged.  I wish people would link to these terrible posts they describe.  I've seen some shit on both sides, but nothing that I'd vote for McCain over.  

I read DKos all the time, and people are definitely pro-Obama over there but it's not like people are calling Hillary sexist names.  

by foxsucks81 2008-02-18 05:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

by foxsucks81 2008-02-18 05:42PM | 0 recs
Whatever....

Remember this:

"At the head of the parade, the presidential limousine was hit by an egg and a tennis ball thrown from the crowd along the roadside. But despite the presence of hundreds of protesters upset by Bush's win in the contentious Florida recount, police reported only four arrests."

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200101 /21/eng20010121_61048.html

Also, remember the "Go Fuck Yourself" Guy!

Seems to me that a bit of dissent is a good thing and  I would be glad to be rid of the "Free Speech Zones".

by OsoDelMar 2008-02-18 06:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

Wow, that's rich.  Quite the hypocrite aren't you andre.  You have been just as bad if not worse at tearing down others.  You need to heed your own advice.  

by yitbos96bb 2008-02-19 04:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

"I'm asking you to believe. Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington... I'm asking you to believe in yours!" - Sen. Barack Obama

______________ _________

I took him up on his challenge and I found that he is changing the landscape in Washington - he is a Democrat taking donations from the Carlyle Group.  

I don't want that kind of "change".

www.politicalamnesia.blogspot.com

by darlamc 2008-02-19 05:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Note To Obamanics: Cut This Crap Out!

If you can't admit that this type of vitriol comes from the fringe in both camps, then you're probably part of that fringe.

by shalca 2008-02-19 06:37AM | 0 recs

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