The Hillary Post-Mortem Diaries Need To Stop

A quick review of the diaries I posted throughout the 2008 primary campaign would show that I was an unabashed Hillary Clinton supporter.

After the primaries ended, I was upset that my candidate lost.  I thought Hillary would have made a great president, and a certain part of me still believes that.

However, it is past time for folks to move on.

These post-mortem diaries about how Obama is failing and how Hillary would be doing a better job is serving no one.

Let's put a stop to it and stay focused on the current, pressing issues of the day.

Tags: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton (all tags)



Tips & Recs

I apologize for violating the diary rules, but I'm tired of reading how "so-and-so-wouldn't-have-happened-if-Hil lary-were-president."

by Andre Walker 2009-12-17 08:22AM | 0 recs
We have some voracious trolls

I'm new to posting here myself, but a long time reader, and I'm quite surprised at the tenacity of these new trolls.

They bring up Hillary not because the support her, but to use (and abuse) the poor woman to reopen old primary wounds and sow division within the democratic party when clearly we're at a low point in the Obama Presidency, even though all of his 43 predecessors also had low points.

Of course, they're betting against Obama, and they'll ultimately lose, but now is their time.

by NoFortunateSon 2009-12-17 09:39AM | 0 recs
Re: hey

1) coulda

  1. woulda
  2. shoulda
  3. repeat

5) repeat

6) repeat

7) repeatrepeatrepeat

by mikeinsf 2009-12-17 12:17PM | 0 recs
cool story bro

but i think livejournal might be a better forum to tell people your life story.

by JJE 2009-12-17 01:11PM | 0 recs
no need to be a jerk/nt

by Thaddeus 2009-12-20 12:11PM | 0 recs
Most of us had moved on after HRC declared her

support for President Obama and asked her supporters to do same. This ridiculous endeavor is taken up by some out of control sockpuppet from rightwing Stormfront or the PUMA controlled Confluence.

by louisprandtl 2009-12-18 11:30AM | 0 recs
Re: The Hillary Post-Mortem Diaries Need To Stop

Hey buddy!  Come around and post more often, always enjoy your perspective.

by Steve M 2009-12-17 08:59AM | 0 recs
Allow me

to introduce you to Ludwig, Andre. Andre, say hello to Ludwig. Ludwig, Andre. Ludwig was away for a while, but now he's back. Just in time, as it turns out.

by QTG 2009-12-17 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: hola..

Ah, if only redstate and freerepublic would do the same. wouldn't that be grand?

by QTG 2009-12-17 09:50AM | 0 recs
Arianna's a republican, and an attention...


She always has been. Any casual observation would know that.

She just hated your dear friend Hillary and championed Obama to knock her out of the primary.

She threw Grey Davis under the bus to elect Arnold.

She spread the Bill Clinton racist meme in South Carolina.

Her husband loss the GOP Senate Seat in CA.

And now, she gets attention by drumming up anti-Obama sentiment.

She doesn't love Obama, she loves the attention.

by NoFortunateSon 2009-12-17 10:00AM | 0 recs
See, this is why people think you're a troll

If you were really a Democrat, and you were really a Hillary supporter during the primaries, you would never be supporting Arianna. You would be angry at how she treated Hillary during the primary.

Your story just doesn't add up.

Have you wondered why people are troll rating you so heavily? It's not just me. In fact, I've been quite lenient. Even if you aren't a troll, you sure act like one and sound like one.

So here's the deal: get your fact straight and learn your history.

No one said you can't dislike Obama. But you do have to know what you're talking about when you criticize democrats. Otherwise, you're going to continue to get troll rated.

Oh, and going through threads and troll rating non destructive comments, such as the one I posted above, is a bannable offense. I've seen it happen too.

So how long do you want to be here in this forum?

by NoFortunateSon 2009-12-17 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: See, this is why people think you're a troll

Where do you get that he "supported" Arianna?  I believe, although I could be wrong, that he did not mean "Obama fanboy" as a compliment.

by Steve M 2009-12-17 11:32AM | 0 recs
"fruitcakes" and "fanboys"

Who is this Ludwig van Beetadeadhorse?

by mikeinsf 2009-12-17 12:25PM | 0 recs
Re: The Hillary Post-Mortem Diaries Need To Stop

Thank you, OP, for continuing exactly what you had hoped to stop.

There were no "post-mortem diaries." There was one diary.  One in which would have scrolled down and forgotten but for your diary.

by FilbertSF 2009-12-17 10:20AM | 0 recs
Re: The Hillary Post-Mortem Diaries Need To Stop

Well I don't think we need post- or pre-mortem diaries.  But if I see "Well think of the alternative" one more time I think I'll lose what little is left of my sanity.  I think of the alternatives a lot these days.  I chose the one we have, but certainly not happily.  I could see some of these problems a long while ago.  Better than Senator Bitter Old White Guy? Absolutely.  Better than Senator Ex-First Lady?  All we can do is hope.  So I do.

by Demo Dan in Dayton 2009-12-17 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: "a certain part ,,,:"

Setting aside the merits of your argument, I think there is a big difference between looking forward (who should we run in 2012?) and looking backward (who should we have run in 2008?).  It's not that you're not allowed to talk about the latter, it's that it's unproductive and adds a lot more heat than light.

If all we want are flame wars in which we rehash the 2008 primary, we can go there, but I agree with the diarist's opinion that it long since grew old and pointless.

If we want to talk about 2012, then let's talk about 2012.  If you really want to have that discussion, I don't think you're helping your own cause when you dangle around flamebait about how Hillary should have been 44.

Everyone is free to share their opinion, and give advice if they like; this has been mine.

by Steve M 2009-12-17 11:36AM | 0 recs

Tom Harkin supports the senate bill.

Iowa Senator Tom Harkin says Congress is on the cusp of something "truly historic" with its health care reform proposal, which he vows will win passage before Christmas. Harkin says the significance of the plan compares to passage of Social Security in 1935 and to Medicare in 1965. He says the health care legislation's crowning element is extending coverage to more than 30-million Americans who don't now have it. in-says-senate-on-the-cusp-of-history-wi th-health-care-reform/

by fogiv 2009-12-17 12:11PM | 0 recs
Re: im talking about him as our nominee

So your dream 2012 primary challenger has the same position on HCR as the guy you want ousted?


by fogiv 2009-12-17 12:20PM | 0 recs
Re: He didnt give away the farm


Harkin chairs the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, which created many provisions in the massive bill, which reports say could end up costing one-trillion dollars over ten years. Harkin says the legislation has the power to help change the way the nation lives.
by fogiv 2009-12-17 12:39PM | 0 recs

ur troll skillz = teh suck.

by fogiv 2009-12-17 01:14PM | 0 recs
Re: sorry

...or proper english, but who's counting?

by fogiv 2009-12-17 09:40PM | 0 recs
Re: oh you wound me so

you make it rather easy.

by fogiv 2009-12-18 05:57AM | 0 recs
Re: i think i hear a mosquito...

nearby?  here's hoping it bears malaria.

by fogiv 2009-12-18 06:17AM | 0 recs
Re: hark, me thinks i hear a gnat....

Repeating something 40 minutes later doesn't increase its wit.

by Strummerson 2009-12-18 07:41AM | 0 recs
Re: hark, me thinks i hear a gnat....

then STFU.  should you complain about the smell next, I'll simply direct attention to your upper lip.

by fogiv 2009-12-18 08:17AM | 0 recs
Re: what is that annoying BUZZ?!

Probably the sound of your three functional synapses, straining to form a response that someone, anyone might find amusing.

by fogiv 2009-12-18 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Waaaaaaa!

You can't win, and yet you can't desist.  It's a case study in stupidity.  By all means, please continue to contribute data.

by fogiv 2009-12-18 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: echo??

Still straining?  I've got all day.

by fogiv 2009-12-18 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: let me guess

Incorrect.  I'm neither sad nor angry.  Honestly, it pleases me to provide the rope with which you may hang yourself.

by fogiv 2009-12-18 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Waaaaaaa!

lulz.  Keep goin'.

by fogiv 2009-12-18 09:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Waaaaaaa!

Good one, meathead.  'Teh stoopid' piles ever higher.

by fogiv 2009-12-20 08:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Waaaaaaa!

you're an idiot.

by canadian gal 2009-12-18 06:22PM | 0 recs
Re: The Hillary Post-Mortem

I could not agree more.

They serve no purpose.

by Charles Lemos 2009-12-17 12:11PM | 0 recs
your tears

taste like sweet sweet honey.

by JJE 2009-12-17 01:09PM | 0 recs
what's a kossack

you seem strangely obsessed with them.

by JJE 2009-12-18 06:46AM | 0 recs
simple question

tell me what a kossack is and why they are so important to you.

by JJE 2009-12-18 06:51AM | 0 recs
daily kos?

who cares about that?  this website is called mydd, not daily kos.

by JJE 2009-12-18 07:06AM | 0 recs
why don't you ask them?

did someone at daily kos break your heart?  if so that's a shame but it's not really relevant here.

by JJE 2009-12-18 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: thats your opinion

Am I denying you your right to engage in stupidity?

No, I am not. But you do yourself no favors effectively ostracizing yourself in the court of MyDD public opinion. The "i told you so" is pointless. What does it solve? How does it move the conversation forward? It's childish behavior.

by Charles Lemos 2009-12-17 01:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Am I denying you your right

someone like whom?  Like Charles?  What kind of person have you decided Charles is?  Based on what?

by Strummerson 2009-12-17 07:14PM | 0 recs
Re: from todays Krugman

Why do you keep skipping the part where he urges passing the bill?  

by Strummerson 2009-12-17 07:25PM | 0 recs
wudwigvan, sir, with respect.

You are a fucking moron.

"do you really believe4 i give a teeny hoot what someone like you thinks of me?!"

Whatever you mean by "someone like you" when a front page poster drops into a comment thread and gives you a piece of friendly advice you might want to stop and listen rather than launching ad homs.

A couple of weeks ago someone launched a similar "Who the fuck are you?" attack on Meteor Blades over at dKos. To which I helpfully pointed out "A guy with a UID of 9 (actually 6)"

Contrary to popular opinion the Blogosphere is not a Free Speech Zone. Instead it is more akin to a series of House Parties. Some of those are wide open, others implicitly require that you bring your own beer, some have guest lists. But generally all of them have hosts who if they choose or if you are being an asshole and bothering people have the freedom to kick your ass out to the curb. Which of course leaves you the freedom to walk away muttering "Well this party sucked anyway". Which won't bother the remaining guests even a tiny bit.

Just sayin'.

by Bruce Webb 2009-12-18 06:07AM | 0 recs
in the 20th century

There was indeed a society in which only professional political apparatchiks were allowed to participate.  It also had pretensions of know what was better and more progressive for everyone else.  Didn't work out so well.  Do you really want a professional political oligarchy?  You sure you wouldn't end up in the Gulag?

by Strummerson 2009-12-18 07:44AM | 0 recs
I think the countdown of your MyDD days

have started. Please start collecting your belogingings. Goodluck and bon voyage back to the Effluence.

by louisprandtl 2009-12-18 11:26AM | 0 recs

Hello, fellow 'roaster?

by TexasDarling 2009-12-18 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: "Effluence?"

There be 'roasters afoot.
I be, you be,
a toast to the 'roast of ye.

{secret terrorist fist-jab handshake}


by fogiv 2009-12-18 05:24PM | 0 recs
it is an "outflow from a sewer

or sewage system" converging at the Confluence...

by louisprandtl 2009-12-21 11:47AM | 0 recs

All banter aside, I actually feel sorry for you.  You strike me as incredibly bitter and crestfallen.  I hope you can find a more positive way to channel your passions.

by Reaper0Bot0 2009-12-18 12:14PM | 0 recs
I'm torn...

Part of me completely agrees with you -- the time warp is both weird and counterproductive.  But another part thinks that slagging PUMAs is a big part of what makes this place entertaining.  The spirit of Alegre lives on!

by TexasDarling 2009-12-17 04:45PM | 0 recs
Re: how come my posts get read and yours dont?

That's TD's point.  Slagging PUMAs is entertaining for some.  That's why people read your posts.

by Strummerson 2009-12-17 07:16PM | 0 recs
Because in these tough times

we all need a good laugh.

by ND22 2009-12-17 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: then i suggest you go look in the


and see what everybody else you know sees...

then you can laugh at you too!

by Strummerson 2009-12-18 05:14AM | 0 recs
Re: how come my posts get read and yours dont?


For the same reason Tiger Woods "scandals" and Britney Spears follies dominate the headlines for great lengths of time in the media cycles, overshadowing conversations that might actually effect policy productively, or better educate the electorate:  

People love to see a train wreck.

These conversations can be entertaining, but their value, and relevance in the end is nil.

by Jason Williams 2009-12-19 09:36AM | 0 recs
Obama's problem

Is that he decided to stock his Administration with a combination of Chicago style operatives and Clintonistas. If anything he has moved TOWARDS Hillaryism. His whole approach since election has been Third Way 2.0.

Health care reform went down in 1992-93 because Bill and Hil decided they didn't need to engage with DFHs like Kennedy and Dingell and instead could proceed with a bunch of technocratic sensible centrists working behind closed doors. Is there any reason to think that Hillary would have embraced some bold progressive agenda? Thrown her weight behind Single Payer?

I like Hillary and I like Obama but stayed out of the primary brouhaha that tore dKos and MyDD apart both internally and between them because it was pretty clear from the start that the only question was which Rubinista/former Clinton staffer would end up on Team Barack or Team Hillary. Obama's initial economic team was made up of Goolsbee, Liebman and Cutler, two of whom I had never heard of but the third Liebman the author of a truly worker unfriendly Social Security 'reform' plan. So I looked up the background of Goolsbee and Cutler and came to the reasoned progressive conclusion "We're fucked".

But would we be in a better place with a WH where the President was taking advice from Lanny Davis? /lanny-davis-clinton-campa_n_97720.html

I am a Yellow Dog Democrat anyway and in truth you could pick the names of any two Democrats out of a hat and get a less disastrous team than McCain/Palin. But I skipped the state caucus and primary last year because as a Social Democrat it was clear that neither remaining candidate would be pushing a strong economic platform, instead we were just being offered two forks in the Third Way.

What was the biggest surprise when Hillary entered the Senate? How willing she was to reach across the aisle and embrace the 'comity' of the Senate. And much the same was true of Obama. People who thought in electing either we were getting another Wellstone was just not paying attention.

by Bruce Webb 2009-12-18 05:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's problem

I think this a largely cogent analysis.  But I differ on the fact that many of us who actually supported Obama did not have illusions that he was going to be Salvador Allende.  Rather, we thought he would be more effective at pulling toward the left fork of the third way.  He has always presented himself both as a visionary with somewhat contradictory burkean tendencies toward minimalism (or gradualism) and respect for traditional institutions.  What seems clear to me is that he has been more minimalist than visionary, and I am still looking for the opposite emphasis.  But this failure also has to do with the fact that he hasn't had the unified and politically powerful left flank that FDR and LBJ had, both within the legislature, in the unions, and in the grass roots of the party.  Reaganism did them in.  Actually, Carter's inability or unwillingness to work with the left in the legislative branch during his presidence was part of this process as well.  Regardless, we would have had a similar problem with HRC.  Perhaps she would have been part of a more effective left flank had she stayed in the senate.  But whatever is to be salvaged at this point on this and other issues depends on that improving.  I am pessimistic at the moment.  Maybe we need out own tea-baggers.

by Strummerson 2009-12-18 06:12AM | 0 recs
Re: The Hillary Post-Mortem Diaries Need To Stop

a) I largely think Clinton and Obama would have been the same.

b) I do think historical contextualization is important, and asking did we back to wrong horse is a valid question toward that end. I think there are quite a few people along this thread who are not really interested in any criticism of Obama. I have seen them on other sites attacking even former ardent supporters with smears and name calling all the while whining that others are name calling, and blah, blah blah.

I say blah, blah, blah because ultimately is bullshit. It is a distraction predicated on a cult of personality. I am no more interested in the cult of Clinton than  I am in the Cult of Obama. Or the Cult of Edwards if there were one, which thankfully there wasn't.

c) I think orestes yesterday pegs me correctly- the issue for me with many of you, and a diary like this is that it is navel gazing. I came in here after avoiding the diary mostly because I wanted to see what people were going to say. Let's just say I was not disappointed. Meanwhile, my family remains under economic stress as do most Americans. orestes said that my coming out of the working class poor in this country probably means I feel like I have more at stake in these arguments. And that's probably reading me fairly well.

Most of this hero worship shit pisses me off. Why? Because none of the Democrats in my estimation have done shit in the last 30 decades to prevent the decline of this country. I am not interested in putting them up on a pedestal until they do shit do deserve it. Being elected is not doing shit to do deserve it. Transformative policy making that uplift the society like the New Deal and the Great Society are transformative. These Dems Today? You are all mostly tweaking at the edge of giants. If we are going to compare outcomes- that's what matters- the policies not the personality.

So, to close, I agree the battle between the cult of clinton and the cult of Obama needs to stop because it is bullshit and mostly ego driven drivel. Not one damn person is going to be helped by whining about how Clinton would have been better a) because that's fantasy and b) she ain't president. We are stuck with Obama like it or not. The reality on that front needs to be confronted rather than burying our heads in the sand like cheerleaders want us to do.

If I manage to piss of everyone with the above comments- good. You are where I am with my frustration of the playing the violin as Rome burns that I see amongst too many.

by bruh3 2009-12-18 10:39PM | 0 recs
Re: The Hillary Post-Mortem Diaries Need To Stop

I was a Hillary supporter who, naturally, strongly supported Obama in the general. And I guess its just human nature to wonder what might have been, although it may not be particularly helpful at times.

I am disappointed in Obama.  I know he has had some incredibly difficult things to deal with, but i don't feel much leadership from him. I don't think Obama is a bad President, but he's far from the great President I was hoping for.

As things stand I wouldn't rule out supporting a primary challenge against Obama in '12.  I can't see Hillary standing against him, but if she did I would back her.

by liberalj 2009-12-20 06:29AM | 0 recs
You were right - I was wrong

There - I said it. I was a diehard Obama supporter and I spent a lot of time here debating in 2008.

I apologize. Hillary could not have been worse than this. If she challenges in 2012 I'll vote for her.

The failure to use reconciliation and the existence of Rahm Emanuel are the last straws. I'm done.

by obsessed 2009-12-20 01:20PM | 0 recs


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