Howard Dean: "Enormous Amount of Sexism" in Media

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, echoed the sentiments of many supporters of New York Sen. Hillary Clinton (D - New York) yesterday when he told ABC's George Stephanopoulos that if some in the media had made some of the offensive statements about a black man that they made about Hillary Clinton, a white female, they'd be looking for a new job.

"There has been an enormous amount of sexism in this campaign on the part of the media, including the mainstream media," Dean said on ABC's "This Week with George Stephanopoulos".

"We'll leave present company excepted, because I think that's true. But there have been major networks that have featured numerous outrageous comments that if the words were reversed and they were about race, the people would have been fired."

...you don't get over...deep wounds that have been inflicted on somebody because they happen to be a woman running for president of the United States," the party chairman said.

Source:  6/2/2008 The Hill article "Dean derides `sexist' media coverage"
During the course of the Democrats' 2008 primary season, Sen. Clinton was subjected to news reports and other coverage that raised the eyebrows of feminists across the nation including one incident where an on-air personality of NBC News asked if the Clintons' using their daughter, Chelsea, on the campaign trail was akin to them "pimping her out."

David Shuster, the commentator who made the statement, was eventually suspended by NBC.

The sometimes blatantly sexist media coverage of Hillary Clinton has served as a constant reminder that sexism is more powerful than racism in the United States; a country where the black man got the right to vote before the white female did.  

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Media (all tags)

Comments

115 Comments

Re: Howard Dean

I saw that yesterday and also saw Dean praise Hillary on Saturday's RBC meeting and was very pleased to see him state that.

about time!

by colebiancardi 2008-06-02 06:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean

I agree. It is true that sexism and racism are still part of our culture. We just need to prevail!

We Need Team Hillary!!

by comingawakening 2008-06-02 06:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean

are you kidding? it is the NATIONAL INTEREST to have "reports' about the plunging necklines of out Senators! How would we ever live until the next pretty dead white girl comes along for O'Lielly and Gerhaldo to salavate over?

by zerosumgame 2008-06-02 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean:

It's too bad that Dean was suffering from laryngitis since January and couldn't say something about this before.

I'm glad he's recovered, however.

by OrangeFur 2008-06-02 06:27AM | 0 recs
convenient, isn' t it?

they all had to be shamed when John McCain took the podium and decried remarks against Clinton.  

by 4justice 2008-06-02 06:43AM | 0 recs
Re: convenient, isn' t it?

Too bad you can't recognize political expediency when you see it.  This is the man who laughed when one of his supporters asked "how do we beat the bitch?"

He's hoping you're gullible.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 09:53AM | 0 recs
missed the point

McCain shamed the dems into finally admitting the sexism in the media, and the horrible comments of yet another pastor who is spiritual advisor to obama.

No one said a thing about this until mcCain did.  there  you go.  Not obama, not dean, not pelosi, not reid, not kennedy, none of them.  

Who is gullible, now?

by 4justice 2008-06-02 10:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean:

OrangeFur-- You are sooooo right.  Howard Dean's comments on ABC were unbelievably condescending--and a little bit too late!  Now that his guy is the presumptive nominee, Dean's professed "sympathy" for HRC is not only phony, but slimy.  

Howard Dean (his pro-Obama shinanigans) and Donna Brazile (use of the race card), for that matter, are disgusting!  Their callus and disrespectful treatment of HRC throughout this primary season will not be forgotten.  

 

by trixta 2008-06-02 08:36AM | 0 recs
i was thinking the same thing orange.

by canadian gal 2008-06-02 08:39AM | 0 recs
Would it have helped?

Would the Hillary brand survive having the MSM and Howard Dean and other surrogates call her the victim of a vast misogynist conspiracy?

I've never seen any indicator that Obama or the DNC aided or abetted misogyny or sexism, and there's a legitimate question as to whether or not they should have spoken out more vocally against twits like Rhodes. But would that have helped Senator Clinton? I'm going to go with no. If you're the strong fighter who's going to stand up for everyone - which is Clinton's core message - then if everyone has to stand up for you, it hurts your credibility.

I'm not saying that's logical, because it isn't. Being united against sexism, racism, and other ills is admirable. But I don't think it affected the election, because rank and file voters are not necessarily logical.

by mattw 2008-06-02 09:09AM | 0 recs
Perhaps now would be a good

time to highlight how we can move forward and get past some of these stereotypes.

Instead of adding fuel to the fire.

by missliberties 2008-06-02 06:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean: "Sexism" in Media

Too little, too late, but better late than never.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-06-02 06:29AM | 0 recs
Yep. Black guys have it way easier than

white women.

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Yep. Black guys have it way easier than

oh. stop. it. now.

sexism isn't about color - women come in all colors, last time I looked

and neither  'ism is "worse" than the other.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-02 06:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Yep. Black guys have it way easier than

Yes, women of color have to face racism and sexism. That's true. But that's not what's at issue here.

As far as an "ism" being worse than the other, talk to the diarist.

But I'll stick with statistics showing black men having a much harder time across the board than white women.

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Yep. Black guys have it way easier than

and women of color get sexism from their own race.  Just because one is not white doesn't mean that their own race doesn't attack them with sexist remarks.

I believe several strong female hip-hop and rappers have made this quite clear that they don't like it either.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-02 06:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Yep. Black guys have it way easier than

Again. That's absolutely true.  

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:47AM | 0 recs
Get out of yourself for a minute

read about women around the world. Show some curiosity.

So the least experienced nominee in history is being nominated over one of the most prepared and experienced candidates in history.

You cannot be serious.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 06:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Get out of yourself for a minute

Dodd and Biden are more prepared. Quit inflating the resume of Clinton.

I'm quite familiar with world events as well as American history. We're talking about America. I don't think we have things like FGM here.

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:48AM | 0 recs
What do you know of her resume?

And Obama's colleagues in the ole boys club even gave him a subcommittee chairmanship - something she wasn't handed. And he did NOTHING with it.

Curious what you know of her resume.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: What do you know of her resume?

I know Dodd and Biden have bigger resumes. You realize that the contest didn't just start right? We're all very familiar with the candidates now.

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:54AM | 0 recs
Re: What do you know of her resume?

This just shows that Obama governing style will be like GW Bush's--by committee.  How's that been working for us so far?

by trixta 2008-06-02 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Get out of yourself for a minute

one of the most prepared and experienced candidates in history

There were three more prepared and experienced candidates running in the Democratic primary this year.

Hillary Clinton is experienced, undoubtedly, but please don't inflate her resume.

by mistersite 2008-06-02 06:53AM | 0 recs
Please tell us her resume

I'm curious what you know of her resume.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 06:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Please tell us her resume

Possibly Relevant experience: 12 years - First Lady of Arkansas
Relevant experience: 8 years - First Lady of US
Experience in elected office: 8 years - US Senator from New York

Dodd, Biden, and Richardson all top that with very little difficulty.  As did Kerry, Lieberman, and Gephardt in 2004 and both Gore and Bradley in 2000.

Sure, she's got some experience.  But one of the most experienced candidates in history?  Hardly.

by mistersite 2008-06-02 07:01AM | 0 recs
As I thought.

You only looked at what she did in terms of her husband.

Her husband coasted on her salary for all the years he worked up to being elected Governor. But I'm sure you think that's fair. To coast on a spouse's career.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 07:03AM | 0 recs
Re: As I thought.

No, I looked at what she did in terms of relevant experience for the office of the presidency, in response to your saying that she was one of the most experienced people to run for president.

by mistersite 2008-06-02 07:13AM | 0 recs
Try harder. Hop to it.

We've done enough googling for you. You are not interested and that is your right. If you want to prove otherwise, do your own research.

Hop to it.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 07:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Try harder. Hop to it.

Not interested in what?

In her other work prior to her experiences with elected office, both Bill's and her own?

Other candidates have that too.

Again, you made a comparative argument: that she's one of the most experienced people ever to run for president.

I presented a counterargument stating that in fact, she wasn't even one of the most experienced people on this year's ballot.

If you're going to counter that, you need to present your evidence.

by mistersite 2008-06-02 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Try harder. Hop to it.

HRC is superior to ALL of this year's presidential candidates period!  Her breadth of knowledge and political savy put all of them to shame in every debate.

Also, HRC wasn't recognized as one of the top 100 attorney's in the nation for nothing.  Even at 26, I believe, she was one of the lawyers to work on Nixon's impeachment.  Furthermore, her tireless activism throughout her political life for children, families, and universal health care is well known.

by trixta 2008-06-02 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Try harder. Hop to it.

That wasn't the original poster's argument.  His/her argument was that Hillary Clinton was one of the most experienced candidates ever to run for president.  And again - she wasn't even in the top three most experienced candidates on the Democratic ballot.

If it was experience you wanted, you should have supported Richardson, Dodd, or Biden.

by mistersite 2008-06-02 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Get out of yourself for a minute

So the least experienced nominee in history...

I'm so glad we're putting things in perspective and are not engaging in ridiculous, fact-free hyperbole. Otherwise, I'd have to point out that Lincoln served only 2 years in the U.S. Senate before running. He turned out okay. Eisenhower had no non-military experience at all. He turned out okay. Woodrow Wilson had only 2 years of experience as governor of New Jersey before his nomination as president. He turned out okay.

But you already knew that because you weren't engaging in ridiculous, fact-free hyperbole.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-02 07:08AM | 0 recs
Lincoln tried 400 cases in state supreme

court. Obama tried not a single one.

Lincoln was elected to Whig party leader when he was in the state senate.

Obama and Lincoln? Hardly a comparison.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 07:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Lincoln tried 400 cases in state supreme

Lincoln tried 400 cases in state supreme court. Obama tried not a single one.

Yes, arguing before a state supreme court makes one eminently qualified to be U.S. president. Someone alert the state and federal bars that they've now got thousands of future U.S. presidents on their hands.

Man, this has descended into low comedy pretty quickly.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-02 07:37AM | 0 recs
Obama tried not a single case in any court

hope that is more clear.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama tried not a single case in any court

Who cares? He was also a constitutional law professor, so should I argue that his knowledge of the constitution makes him singularly fit to be president?

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-02 08:55AM | 0 recs
Bill Cosby: misogyny in black community

do you agree? Billboards in the black neighborhoods of my city address misogyny - say "children are listening to the way we talk to our women. Set a good example."

Jay Z "I've Got 99 Problems and a BITCH Ain't One." Obama likes Jay Z. Oh joy. How presidential.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 06:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Cosby: misogyny in black community

Again. That's true. But it still doesn't help the argument made in this post.  

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:52AM | 0 recs
RE: Misogny in America...

...The finest example of misogny in America and the 2008 Democratic presidential nominating contests is this t-shirt:

a902_bm

by Andre Walker 2008-06-02 06:52AM | 0 recs
Re: RE: Misogny in America...

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: RE: Misogny in America...

I cannot speak for the roswell beacon, but the t-shirt was not put out by HRC supporters, but a republican.

the Bros before Hoes tshirt was put out by Obama supporters.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-02 06:59AM | 0 recs
Re: RE: Misogny in America...

"the Bros before Hoes tshirt was put out by Obama supporters."

Ok. There are a lot of racist Clinton supporters. So what?

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 07:04AM | 0 recs
Re: RE: Misogny in America...

the Bros before Hoes tshirt was put out by Obama supporters.

Really? You mean, out of tens of millions of supporters, someone printed a T-shirt?!? I tell you, the Obama campaign has no control over their people!

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-02 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: RE: Misogny in America...

again, just pointing out the facts.  It has nothing to do with the Obama campaign.

it is some, not a lot, of their "supporters".

by colebiancardi 2008-06-02 07:19AM | 0 recs
Re: RE: Misogny in America...

Do I have to drag Harriet Christian in here?

by Jess81 2008-06-02 09:59AM | 0 recs
And Ferarro had to wear a bullet-proof vest

in 1984 just for being a V.P. candidate. You think Hillary hasn't received death threats?

by catfish2 2008-06-02 07:01AM | 0 recs
Re: And Ferarro had to wear a bullet-proof vest

Ben Smith killed minorities because they were minorities. Is there a male supremacist group roaming around killing women because they're women?

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 07:04AM | 0 recs
Re: And Ferarro had to wear a bullet-proof vest

Have you seen the stats on domestic violence in this country and around the world?

by grlpatriot 2008-06-02 07:18AM | 0 recs
Re: And Ferarro had to wear a bullet-proof vest

Is this a joke?  If so, it's a very bad one. You can't possibly be saying that women aren't being assaulted, raped and killed every day - you can't be saying that.

by Denny Crane 2008-06-02 08:00AM | 0 recs
Re: And Ferarro had to wear a bullet-proof vest

There is a long history of black men and women being targets of murder specifically to remove their political power.  

This goes from the assassinations of MLK and Malcolm X all the way to garden variety lynchings that took place right after the North withdrew troops from the old confederacy, and black people lost the vote for the next 100 years, a time that included about 50 years where white women were openly and actively enjoying that right without fear of harm nor death.  Meanwhile, look at the stats on lynchings, especially in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.  You have to murder a LOT of people to make them so afraid that they forget they ever even had the power to vote.

Women are unique targets of domestic violence, which claims and ruins a lot of lives.  And Hillary Clinton has absolutely no chance of falling victim to that.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 10:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Cosby: misogyny in black community

Are we really going to start judging people based on their music tastes?  How stupid can we be?  Art is art.  

by freedom78 2008-06-02 07:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Cosby: misogyny in black community

Personally, I'm very suspicious of anyone who doesn't appreciate Ella Fitzgerald, but that's just me.

by Denny Crane 2008-06-02 08:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Bill Cosby: misogyny in black community

I don't appreciate Ella Fitzgerald.  She's too... the words that are coming to mind are cool, sweet, mechanical, you-could-program-a-computer-to-make-sou nds-like-that, etc.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 10:07AM | 0 recs
So ...

It is ok to be sexist because racism is "worse"?  I think the point is that if the media has treated Obama this way due to his race, there would have been a firestorm and jobs would have been lost.  Christ, I truly believe some of you are just delusional

by emmasaint 2008-06-02 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: So ...

They did and none were.

The media has made it quite clear that separation of church and state only matters if you're white.

There are pro-Clinton sites popping up where every other word is "black" "africa" etc.  NoQuarter is the best example.  There is no counter-part on the pro-Obama side.

There are CURRENTLY 16 white women serving in the Senate, and lots more no longer serving.  There have only been three African Americans - two men and one women - since reconstruction.  Draw your own conclusions.

I don't know where the truth is, but I'm offering up these facts - and they are facts - as balance.  I don't think "which ism is worse" is helpful to anyone.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 10:10AM | 0 recs
Re: So ...

I think the media has fallen down on really putting forth the crap that comes from "some" white churches, but they do know a nutjob statement when they see it.  They slam that homophobe nutcase whose whole church membership is his relatives - those folks who picket around gay soldier funeral.  When Falwell and his buddy stated that 9/11 was the results of a liberal US, with feminists, gays and all that - the media slammed them as well.

hagee got several massive hits as well.

as far as the difference between how many white women vs blacks in the senate & house, I think it is still damn pitiful, considering what percentage white women make up in this country and black men and women in this country.

BOTH sides are unrepresented, based on the percentages and ratios.

You are correct - "which 'ism is worse" is not helpful.  

as far as those so-called pro-Clinton sites are concerned, they are a small minority and should be swept into the trash and ignored.  I paid no attention to NoQuarter.  As far as there is no counterpart, you'd be surprised what doesn't show up on google.  I am not stating there is one, but I wouldn't not put it beyond the realm of belief, as there are nutters on both sides.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-02 10:19AM | 0 recs
And with regards to voting

these guys agree!

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:34AM | 0 recs
And if you look at the U.S. Constitution...

...You'll see in plain black and white (no pun intended) that the black man was constitutionally guaranteed the right to vote BEFORE the white woman was.

by Andre Walker 2008-06-02 06:37AM | 0 recs
Re: And if you look at the U.S. Constitution...

And then denied that right by the upstanding Americans you see in this photo!

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:39AM | 0 recs
Johnny

That was tasteless.  Stop it.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-02 06:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Johnny

The whitewashing of American history is tasteless.

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:43AM | 0 recs
Women voted 50 years after Frederick

Douglass.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 06:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Women voted 50 years after Frederick

Yeah that makes the lynching and murder victims feel much better.

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:48AM | 0 recs
Women aren't murdered every day

in domestic violence. Is that what you're saying? You want to have this contest?

by catfish2 2008-06-02 06:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Women aren't murdered every day

Not evidence to support the claim in this diary. Sorry.

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Women aren't murdered every day

Every day, 4 women are murdered by boyfriends or husbands.

A woman is battered at least once every 15 seconds in the U.S.

Battering is the single largest cause of injury to women in the U.S.
3 to 4 million are beaten in their homes each year. (Battering is severely underreported. This number accounts for only those cases of assault severe enough to warrant police or medical intervention. Many cases are not reported.)

25 to 45% of battered women are battered during pregnancy.

Up to 37% of all women experience battering. This is an estimated 566,000 women in Minnesota alone

50% of the homeless women and children in the U.S. are fleeing abuse.

more stats

http://www.aadainc.org/Statistics.htm

by colebiancardi 2008-06-02 07:03AM | 0 recs
Folks...

This isn't a "my unfair treatment is worse than your unfair treatment" discussion.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-02 07:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Folks...

I was putting up some sad facts for a poster who wishes to deny that women are killed, murdered every day by domestic violence.  Or as I like to the mother-fucking wife beaters.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-02 07:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Folks...

that should read

or as I like to refer to them...

by colebiancardi 2008-06-02 07:18AM | 0 recs
Not denying it

Yes, it is a sobering set of facts, but they're not really pertinent to this diary, and heresjohnny was out of line posting that picture... let's not exascerbate the issue.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-02 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Not denying it

He is absolutely not out of line.  People are claiming that black men had the right to vote at a time when the punishment for doing so was death.

If they don't know their own history, they need to be shown it.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 10:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Women voted 50 years after Frederick

The HR is for the "stop feeling sorry for yourself" ad hominem.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 10:15AM | 0 recs
So I guess we won't get into the fact...

...That women have been expected to entertain men, cook and clean for men, raise the children, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

If women had it so great, then why was there a need for the Equal Rights Amendment.

It's like my AP U.S. History teacher told me about 7 years ago...the two freest (I know "freest" isn't a word) people in the United States are the white man and the black woman.

by Andre Walker 2008-06-02 06:45AM | 0 recs
Re: So I guess we won't get into the fact...

You really want to compare that with murder and imprisonment and institutional racism?

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:49AM | 0 recs
As a black man, yes I am...

...Willing to compare the two because women have been beaten, murdered and suffered abuse by their male companions.

Women may not have been in jail, but they've been imprisoned in their homes when told by their husbands or fathers that the only work women are supposed to do is in the kitchen and the bedroom.

And finally, there is a lot of institutional sexism in America.  Why else would Sen. Clinton have to prove that she's "tough enough" to be commander-in-chief.

by Andre Walker 2008-06-02 06:59AM | 0 recs
As a black man I'll put

up statistics showing that in every aspect of life black men are worse off than white women. Imprisoned in their homes?

She didn't have to prove that. That's what cost her the nomination. Thought it's clear she thought she did.

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 07:03AM | 0 recs
Re: As a black man I'll put

sexism is color-blind.

we aren't talking about white sexism vs other types of sexism

by colebiancardi 2008-06-02 07:04AM | 0 recs
Re: As a black man I'll put

The diarist is.  Saying that black men have it harder than white women.

To throw things into the mix, I think there's also racism specifically aimed against black women by white women.  I think that motivates the completely out-of-control vitriol against Donna Brazile, as opposed to, say, Nancy Pelosi.

But I don't want to stray far from my  point: the absolute WORST argument you can have is 'who has it worse'.  Because you're requiring one group to acknowledge your grievances while simultaneously telling them to get over theirs.

No one will do it.  They'll think you're a jerk.  They will be less receptive to arguments concerning sexism or racism in the future.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 10:28AM | 0 recs
Re: As a black man I'll put

I feel equally put out by Brazile and Pelosi.  Brazile has been front and center in the media a lot lately, which is why people are commmenting on her behavior.  I don't buy that she is getting more crap because she is black.  She is getting crap for pretending to be impartial when clearly she is not.  Oh and her eye rolling and mama stories pisses me off as a woman, period.  Conduct yourself like a mature grown-up, please, or I am going to think you are an ass.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-02 11:14AM | 0 recs
wasn't that 40 years ago

come on - move on

Isn't that what you tell the women..

god - I can't believe I am a Democrat

by emmasaint 2008-06-02 08:24AM | 0 recs
Men have it easier than women...

...Period.

by Andre Walker 2008-06-02 06:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Men have it easier than women...

Well black men certainly have an easier time of ending up in prison. That's true.

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 06:37AM | 0 recs
Umm

because they commit crimes?

by emmasaint 2008-06-02 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Umm

They're more likely to spend time in jail then their white counterparts committing the same crimes.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 10:17AM | 0 recs
Dean: "Enormous Amount of Sexism"

It's about fucking time Dean addressed it. He should  have said something about it 6 months ago and stood up every time it happened. He is complicit in it for not doing anything about it when it happened, not after the fact. I find it suspicious that he says something about it now. Hmmmm.

by grlpatriot 2008-06-02 06:35AM | 0 recs
Dean still doesn't get it though.

He disparaged Geraldine Ferarro yesterday as basically irrelevant.

Ferarro didn't say anything about Obama that he didn't say about himself. She was also the first female V.P. candidate in history, something our party should be proud of. She received so many death threats she was told to wear a bullet-proof vest.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 06:45AM | 0 recs
Dean was a willing participant in all of this, but

now he thinks it is over and he has won, and needs cash and votes from Hillary's supporters, so he's throwing her a bone with... gasp... two favorable quotes about sexism.

This strikes me as the guy who farted looking around the room, and blaming everyone else for his own foul stench.

by PJ Jefferson 2008-06-02 06:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Dean was a willing participant in all of this,

How, praytell, did he participate in this?

by Jess81 2008-06-02 10:29AM | 0 recs
This sentence is unnecessary.

The sometimes blatantly sexist media coverage of Hillary Clinton has served as a constant reminder that sexism is more powerful than racism in the United States; a country where the black man got the right to vote before the white female did.

You were doing okay up until this last sentence.  There's absolutely no need to play the Oppression Olympics here.  Both women and African-Americans have been subject to oppression over our country's long history, and remain subject to oppression to this day.  We should be working together to end all these forms - including also heterosexism and economic oppression - rather than play a game of who's more oppressed than who.

by mistersite 2008-06-02 06:51AM | 0 recs
Re: This sentence is unnecessary.

I agree.  I struggled with the decision to rec'd this diary or not - I did rec'd this diary because I believe that the majority of the diarist's comments are good.

I would like to state that no 'ism is worse than the other - I do believe that sexism in this primary was not talked about on the MSM with any seriousness, because they were the ones that spread it.

Just as they deny their role questioning this administration (re: Scott McClellan), they deny their role in this.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-02 06:56AM | 0 recs
The sentence is ABSOLUTELY necessary

lynchings are widely known. What is not known is that it took until 1920 for women to vote.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 06:58AM | 0 recs
Re: The sentence is ABSOLUTELY necessary

Yes that's widely known. What's also widely known is that minorities are still being disenfranchised today and were being murdered for trying register to vote just a few decades ago.

FYI, poll taxes and literacy tests. RIF.

by heresjohnny 2008-06-02 07:01AM | 0 recs
"Women

are the n%&*^ers of the world"

John Lennon

by emmasaint 2008-06-02 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: The sentence is ABSOLUTELY necessary

If "black men won the vote before white women did" then what on earth was the civil rights and voting rights act about?

Jesus, those folks all wasted their time and in some cases paid with their lives.  Too bad they didn't have you geniuses around to tell them "relax - you already HAVE the right to vote" so that the civil rights movement could have been called off.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 10:31AM | 0 recs
AB-SO-LUTELY!

I agree totally.  The media has come a long way - but it's not in the good direction for the sake of our country.  Much like a lot of Washington, they're "bought and paid for".

by Southern Mouth 2008-06-02 07:19AM | 0 recs
Look at Obama's church

they think women have it easy and the black man is the most oppressed being in the country.

I think the sentence should stay; we have a duty to set the record straight.

by catfish2 2008-06-02 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Look at Obama's church

And again - is it setting the record straight?  You may think so, but others clearly disagree.  Both of you have reasons for thinking as you do.  To state your opinion as fact, as "setting the record straight," is incredibly problematic.

by mistersite 2008-06-02 07:03AM | 0 recs
Re: This sentence is unnecessary.

Agreed.  It's so boring to read these contests about who can out-victim whom.  Is there some sort of prize for feeling most sorry for oneself?  The point is to acknowledge that it exists and work to eradicate it.

by Pat Flatley 2008-06-02 06:58AM | 0 recs
Too little, too late, Mr Howard Dean
Lets face it, some of Obama's supporters have called Hillary all kinds of names. Sometimes I find it hard to figure which group I loathe the most - some of Obama's supporters or the Republicans. They seem to speak in unison with respect to their hatred of Hillary. I think many Clinton supporters here will second what I am saying.
by optimisticBoy 2008-06-02 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Too little, too late, Mr Howard Dean

You can substitute Obama for Hillary and elicit the same reaction from many people.  Both candidates have some moronic supporters.

by Pat Flatley 2008-06-02 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Too little, too late, Mr Howard Dean
I think there is widespread agreement that the treatment meted to Clinton is far more grotesque than what Obama has had to face with. I suggest Dailykos in particular - some of the absolute vitriol and sheer hatred that is spewed on Clinton - it is quite unbelievable that a Democrat gets this kind of treatment from fellow Democrats.
by optimisticBoy 2008-06-02 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Too little, too late, Mr Howard Dean

I can't join that agreement because I've had a look at talkleft and hillaryis44.  

Some of the posteres Dailykos can definitely be abrasive, but they are most definitely not alone.  (For that matter, look upthread at a few of the posts here.)

by TL 2008-06-02 08:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Too little, too late, Mr Howard Dean

Ugh.  Should be, posters at dailykos...

by TL 2008-06-02 08:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean:

I was glad to see Howard Dean say this yesterday.  And I think it may be a good first step in finding a way forward for the whole party.  It's not about which "ism" is worse or who is the larger victim.  It is about making those things better.  Just to be clear, Howard Dean has said very little about either candidate in this contest.  And I believe it was his job to assiduously avoid taking sides.  On that count, I think he was wise to stay out of the fray.  Plus, you have to remember that his statement on Meet the Press was his response to a question about an op-ed piece by Geraldine Ferraro which basically threw as much fuel on the fire as possible.  This was the best way for Dean to respond.  Good for him.  Good for us.

by the mollusk 2008-06-02 07:08AM | 0 recs
Good for Dean
There has been sexism in the media and this needs to be addressed. I think Obama himself is being unfairly blamed for this, and it needs to be stated who is the true culprit is. Obama needs to get out in front of this and address the sexism Hillary faced, for right now he is the scapegoat.
However, I think that sexism has been much less of an obstacle to overcome than the racism Obama has faced. The fact that she is a woman has allowed many liberal women who would normally be opposed to someone who aggressively backed the Bush War policy and represents the DLC/Washington Insider crowd to unquestioningly follow her in the name of feminism. So in that regard, her being a woman has ultimately been a huge plus for her.
by blinkingidiot 2008-06-02 07:14AM | 0 recs
MY oppression worse that YOUR'S

I left Daily KOS over this particular argument that some commenters are making here.

You know, I had this same type argument over 30 years ago when hubby kept saying that he had it so very tough because his first wife left him and took the kids and the things.  

All I had to deal with was long term childhood sexual molestation.  The very fact that there was an argument about "which was worse" indicated a HUGE problem in the relationship.  Same here.

I made the same remark that Dean made some time back - that if the same type remarks were made about Obama, only racist in nature, the pundit would have been gone!  Instead, the people who made these comments are still enjoying success and salary.

Black America vs. white America has a horrendous past.  The fact that there has been improvement, that some whites are terribly apologetic, etc. doesn't make the past go away.  The damage was done!  The feelings are there.  Black Americans are the ones who have those hurt feelings and have to deal with them.  White Americans can be understanding, kind, restorative - unfortunately, there is always going to be some asshole out there who will make disparaging remarks about black Americans!  The majority of white Americans condemn these remarks and sentiments.

Sexism exists around the world and is encouraged and justified in many religions.  Adam first, then Eve, and Eve causing "the fall" has been used as justification for all kinds of ills.  Females have to deal with our feelings and males could be understanding, kind, restorative - unfortunately there is always going to be some asshole out there who will make disparaging remarks!  In the American media, the just desserts have not been the same.  Don't think that females - Republican and Democratic and Independent - haven't noticed.  Some females will say, "Oh no big deal."  Fine, just give others who think that a change is necessary the same privilege.

by Southern Mouth 2008-06-02 07:14AM | 0 recs
Howard Dean still sucks

For real, Mr. Dean? You can see sexism clearly now after all these months?

Now you want to speak out about sexism?

You couldn't wait to go on FOX to take them to task about race-baiting, but that was in support of the OTHER candidate while you claimed to be neutral.

Ugly four-letter word that begins with f you, Mr. Dean.

by feelfree 2008-06-02 07:23AM | 0 recs
There's a difference

There's sexism and racism in the media.  But media folks tiptoe around the race issue, while hawking Hillary nutcrackers in their funny segments.

by Sieglinde 2008-06-02 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: There's a difference

Yeah, people totally think that's funny.  It's actually a universal point of outrage.

On the other hand, I bet you didn't even know that Rush Limbaugh's theme for Barack Obama is "Barack the Magic Negro".  Why?  Because sexism is much easier to talk about than racism is.

Black candidates are told specifically not to level that charge against anyone, no matter how obvious it is.  They'll use code words like "divisive" or "unhelpful", but they can't risk being seen as angry black people.  On the other hand, Hillary Clinton and her supporters have fanned out - after months of assuring people that she'd seen a lot of primaries and this was NOTHING - and reversed course, now saying that this is the worst primary of all time and accusing everyone of sexism.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: There's a difference

Rush Limbaugh is an idiot.

To make a point using his idiocy is funny.  I'm talking about the mainstream big media that many more Americans watch every day.

Mention "assassination" and you get a whole narrative about history and race.  But mention that nutcracker Hillary, that woman whose voice causes the men to cross their legs, that woman who reminds you of your first wife, blah blah blah, and all that's missing is a laugh track to complete the presentation.

There is a difference.

by Sieglinde 2008-06-02 01:19PM | 0 recs
Re: There's a difference

Yeah, you said that the first time, and I don't see it that way at all.  The people who bring up the Hillary nutcracker are always using it as a "case in point" of bad things.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 09:48PM | 0 recs
Re: There's a difference

Right, so we should stop using that "case in point" and find another one.

It does get tired after a while.

by Sieglinde 2008-06-03 05:29AM | 0 recs
Actually, it's not a competition

sexism is more powerful than racism in the United States; a country where the black man got the right to vote before the white female did.  

What is the point of this assertion?  This is not a competition.  

The specific point being made here is either incredibly misinformed or dismissive of people's very legitimate grievances.  Yes, on paper, African-Americans had the right to vote.  But there were, even on paper, severe limits to those rights - poll taxes and "literacy" tests that were rigged to prevent Af-Ams from registering or voting.  And even if you could get past that, the police and vigilantes both made it a practical impossibility.  In 1960, five percent of eligible African Americans - five - were registered to vote in Mississippi.

People who tried to change this state of affairs in the 1960s - by registering or helping others to register, got killed, imprisoned, beaten.

How does it help the cause of gender equality to demean or diminish these struggles?  Why do you care who has suffered worse?

by TL 2008-06-02 07:51AM | 0 recs
Howard Dean:

Yeah if he had said this months ago that would be one thing.  It's not like he woke up Sunday morning and realized this was going on.  

I think any conciliatory statements from anyone who has been shilling (or secretly pining) for Obama will be pretty hard to swallow at this point.

by JustJennifer 2008-06-02 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean:

Dean is right Hillary was 'defeminised' to end up being just the 'white candidate' for the African-American Comunity and the Media.  It's too much to deal with to look at her as the first woman in American History to have a chance to be President.  Her Campaign wasn't even considered historical in some quarters.  The die is cast now however and women are pissed so my guess is Senator Obama goes back to the Senate on November 5th.  It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks about the plight of AA Men or Women or who had the harder time.  It's a useless argument at this point and will not change the outcome in November.

by orionwest 2008-06-02 03:59PM | 0 recs

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