Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I'm going to just pass along some info on Hillary's speech and some stats fro her campaign because frankly, it's late and I'd really love to get to bed before 1 am for a change tonight.  After all, tomorrow's another day.

No surprises today really.  We all expected Obama to take North Carolina and it looks like Hillary's done what she needed to do by winning Indiana.  So the race goes on and we'll all meet again next Tuesday in West Virginia.  Hillary's not wasting any time either.  After a bit of rest tomorrow, she'll head to West Virginia on Thursday to meet as many voters as she can, and convince them that she's the best prepared - the most dedicated and experienced candidate out there.

She gave a great speech in Indianapolis tonight though - take a look at this clip (courtesy of the folks over at No Quarter)...


And here's her speech, as posted on her campaign's website...

Hillary's Election Day Remarks in Indianapolis, IN
Thank you, Indiana. Thank you. Not too long ago, my opponent made a prediction. He said I would probably win Pennsylvania. He would win North Carolina, and Indiana would be the tie-breaker. Well, tonight we've come from behind, we've broken the tie, and thanks to you, it's full speed on to the White House.

This has been an extraordinary experience, traveling across Indiana, having an opportunity to meet so many of you. And for everyone who holds your breath at the gas pump, afraid to see how much it cost today, and for everyone working day and night because you want the world for your kids. For every young person with big dreams who deserves a world of opportunity, and for all those who aren't in the headlines but have always written America's story, tonight is your victory right here.

I want to commend Senator Obama and his supporters on their win in North Carolina. We are, in many ways, on the same journey. It's a journey begun long before we were born. It is a journey by men and women who have been on a mission to perfect our union, who marched and protested, who risked everything they had to build an America that embraces us all. And tonight, once again, I need your help to continue our journey.

This has always been your campaign and this is your victory, because your support has meant the difference between winning and losing. And we can only keep winning if we're able to keep competing against an opponent who does outspend us massively. So I hope you will go to hillaryclinton.com and support our campaign. This is a very touching moment for me. I grew up in the Midwest, born in Chicago, raised in Park Ridge, Illinois. My dad was a World War II vet who started his own small business, and originally from Scranton, PA., that's right.

My mother had a difficult childhood, but worked hard to provide a loving home for us. And she didn't attend college herself, but was determined her children would. And I don't think she ever dreamed she would see a night like this. Their story, like every one of our stories, is the American story. It's a story of men and women who embrace opportunity, never waver in the face of adversity, and never stop believing in the promise of America. And yet today, I have met so many people here in Indiana and across America who feel invisible.

You sure feel invisible when you're paying $60 or $70 to fill up your tank. You feel invisible when the money you took to the grocery store no longer meets your needs for the next week. You feel invisible when your health insurance disappears and college is out of reach. And you can't believe how invisible you feel when your loved one who served our country in war is ill-served back at home.

I know these stories and I see you and I hear you. And I know how hard you're working, working for yourselves and working for your families. And I will never stop fighting for you, so that you can have the future you deserve.

Tonight, Hoosiers have said that you do want a President who stands strong for you, a President who is ready on Day One to take charge as Commander-in-Chief and keep our families safe; a President who knows how to make this economy work for hardworking middle class families. And there are a lot of ideas about how best to do that.

Because we need all of the good common sense that Americans have to offer. I know that we have got an important debate going on right now about how we are going to help families deal with these gas prices. They have gone up so fast, so out of sight in the minds of the people that I talk with and I think it's time that we really had a concerted strategy. You've heard me say this and I'll say it again. I think its time to give Americans a break this summer and to make the oil companies pay the gas tax out of their record profits.

I say it's time to cover every single American with health insurance.

And I say it's time to freeze foreclosures for families most at risk of losing their homes, including our soldiers who are in harm's way and are being foreclosed on here in America.

Fundamentally, I believe that Americans need a champion in their corner, that for too long we've had a president who has stood up and spoke out for the wealthy and the well-connected. But I don't think that's what Americans need or what they're looking for now. And I think standing up for working people is about the American Dream and the Democratic Party. And I think standing up for the middle class is about who we are and who we can be if we stick together.

So it is important that as we go forward in this campaign that we recognize we are all on the same team. We are going to be standing up for you. We're going to be looking for a way to turn this country around and bring it back to what it should stand for and be all about - better futures for you and your children, solving the problems that affect us here in America.

I know that people are watching this race and they're wondering, I win, he wins, I win, he wins. It's so close. And I think that says a lot about how excited and passionate our supporters are and how intent so many Americans are to really taking their country back. But I can assure you, as I have said on many occasions that no matter what happens, I will work for the nominee of the Democratic Party, because we must win in November.

And I know that Senator Obama feels the same way, because we have been on this campaign trail now for a long time. And we know how desperately people want to see a change, and it will not be a change if the Republicans keep the White House. It will be more of the same, something that no one, no matter what political party you may be, can afford. It is time for all of us to recognize what is at stake in this election, not just for Democrats as we decide who will be our nominee, but for all Americans.

The soldiers and the veterans that I meet, they always say to me, promise you'll take care of my buddies. They rarely ask for themselves. And they need a president who will take care of them. And when I talk with the people who come to rallies and events like this, very often it's with a bit of hesitation that they tell me they've lost their job, they've lost their health care; they can't afford to go to college. And it just breaks my heart, because when I think about the America that I grew up in, the future was unlimited, the potential was there for all of us if we were willing to work hard and do our part.

So this journey that we're on together is one that has been a blessing for me, because I know what this country has meant to me and I know what it still means to all of you. It is now our responsibility to ensure that it will always mean the same for our children and our grandchildren.

I will never give up on you and on your families and on your dreams and on your future. And I want to thank the people of Indiana for your hospitality and your vote of confidence and I especially want to thank your wonderful Senator, Evan Bayh. Evan is an outstanding leader for this state and for America. He's been your governor. He's now your senator. He's someone whom I look to for advice and counsel. He's worked tirelessly on this campaign and I'm so grateful to him and his wonderful wife Susan. I also want to thank the people of North Carolina, who were so hospitable and gracious to us.

And I especially want to thank Mike and Mary Easley for their friendship and support. Governor Easley is a visionary leader for North Carolina and we had so much fun campaigning in the Tar Heel state.

And while we are celebrating tonight, I would like to take a moment to express my deepest sympathies to the victims of the devastating cyclone in Burma. Our hearts and prayers go out to the people there and I call upon the Junta that has ruled Burma for so many years to please let the rest of the world in to help. This is a time when everyone should be there to lift up those who are affected by this deadly storm.

And I want to thank all of my friends who have worked so hard. I want to thank my friends in labor. I want to thank my staff, my volunteers and my supporters. And I especially want to thank my family for their incredible love and support. Bill and Chelsea. People ask us all the time, how do you keep going? We love getting out and meeting people. We love having a chance to be with all of you, and didn't Chelsea do a great job? I know a lot of people enjoyed seeing my husband again out on the campaign trail.

So now it is on to West Virginia, Kentucky, Oregon, and the other states where people are eager to have their voices heard. For too long, we've let places like West Virginia and Kentucky slip out of the Democratic column. Well, it's time for that to change and these next primaries are another test. I'm going to work my heart out in West Virginia and Kentucky this month and I intend to win them in November in the general election.

I want the people in these upcoming states to know we are going to work hard to reach out to all of you, because we want you to know that the Democratic Party is your party. And a Democratic President will be good for you. So please, come join us in our campaign. And I am running to be the President of all of America - north, south, east and west, and everywhere in between. That's why it is so important that we count the votes of Florida and Michigan.

It would be a little strange to have a nominee chosen by 48 states. We've got a long road ahead, but we're going to keep fighting on that path for America, because America is worth fighting for. And we believe in America's potential and possibility that has so ignited hope and the dreams of people throughout our country and around the world. People who left everything behind in order to come here and be part of this great experiment in democracy; dissidents and dreamers on every continent who look to us and our ideals for their hope and inspiration. All those around the world who wept for us and prayed for us on September 11th, who laid wreaths and flew flags at half mast and printed that unforgettable headline, "We are all Americans." That is the reach of America's embrace, through time, place and history.

And I know we can once again open our arms to the world. We can once again be the can-do nation; a nation that defies the odds and greets the future with optimism and hope. There isn't anything America can't do once we make up our minds to start acting like Americans again. And that is exactly what we intend to do. Thank you, and God bless you and God bless America.


(Emphasis added)

Meanwhile, Hillary's camp put out the following memo and I thought I'd pass it along to my good buddies here.  Take a look...

To: Interested Parties
From: The Clinton Campaign
Date: May 6, 2008
RE: Tie-Breaker

In April, Barack Obama called Indiana a `tie-breaker' for the Democratic nominating process: "You know, Sen. Clinton is more favored in Pennsylvania and I'm right now a little more favored in North Carolina, so Indiana right now may end up being the tiebreaker. So we want to work very hard in Indiana ."

At the time, Senator Obama's comments seemed to be part of an elaborate plan to lower expectations for the Indiana contest.  After all, roughly 20% of Indiana Democratic primary voters have been exposed to Senator Obama for years because they live within the Chicago media market.  He's never lost a state that borders his home-state of Illinois .

The fact that Indiana was an open primary - Republicans and independents can vote in the Democratic contest - also augured well for Senator Obama.  He has regularly argued that he should be nominated because he "appeal[s] to Republicans and Independents in a way that none of the other nominees can."

Throw in the fact that Senator Obama outspent the Clinton campaign by a 2 to 1 margin on Indiana television and Indiana seems to be more of a lean-Obama state than a toss-up.
So Hillary's victory in Indiana - fought out against the backdrop of an ailing economy - is all the more incredible.  We started out behind in both the public and internal polls.  

For example, our March 13 poll showed Hillary trailing by 8 points, while our latest poll gave Hillary a 5 point lead.

We saw Hillary Clinton's margin flip from -19 points among men in Indiana back in March to +1 among men in our final poll.  Among women, Hillary's margin increased from +1 in March to +8 now.

Similarly, in mid-February, the Howey-Gauge poll had Barack Obama 15 points ahead of Hillary Clinton (Feb 16-17: Obama 40 / HRC 25).  By April 23-24, Hillary had narrowed the gap to only 2 points in the same poll (Obama 47 / HRC 45).  The late momentum was critical - according to the exit poll, Hillary won by 18 points among those who made their decision in the last three days.

Hillary won by appealing to voters in almost every key demographic group.  According to the exit poll, Hillary won among men and among women, in northern, central and southern parts of the state, among those who earn more than $50,000 per year and those who earn less, union voters and non-union voters, suburban and rural voters, churchgoers, gun-owners, and those who have not graduated from college.

Hillary also won among those who say the economy is the most important issue, those who are affected by the recession, those who say health care is most important, electability and experience voters.  Hillary also led Obama on commander-in-chief.

What drove Hillary's strong support - especially among downscale voters, suburban and rural voters, churchgoers, gun-owners and those who are affected by the recession?

- Gas tax summer holiday - making oil companies pay the gas tax instead of American families through a tax on oil company windfall profits

- Tough stance on NAFTA and other trade issues

- The only candidate - Democrat or Republican - with a health care plan that covers every American

-  Support for cutting middle-class taxes

Guys Hillary's clearly in this thing to win. She said that right from the start and has been working 24/7 to make it to the Oval Office.  Not because she wants the job - but because she knows she can make a positive difference in our lives.  

She can't do this without our help.  If you're serious about seeing her make it... well I think you know what we all need to do - right now.

Send our gal some love and let her know we've got her back all the way to Denver and through to November!

         

U P D A T E

Wow. Just wow. I feel as if I stepped into a buzz saw here and I thought I was among friends on this site. I hope you boys are happy with how you've behaved in this thread tonight. Rather than talk about how the primaries went today and maybe discuss the primaries coming up, many of you are gloating, rude, abusive, and insinuating garbage that I thought I'd left behind at dKos.

Your canidate must be so proud of you guys tonight.

To the Hillary supporters out there who've wandered in now that this is on the Rec List, all I can say is if you're as disgusted as I am at this childish behavior, donate to Hillary and donate BIG.

HELP HILLARY FIGHT ON - CONTRIBUTE NOW!

Tags: 2008 elections, Hillary Clinton, Indiana, president, West Virginia (all tags)

Comments

367 Comments

Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

In it to WIN it baby!

by alegre 2008-05-06 08:35PM | 0 recs
Goodbye Alegre <eom>

Seeya.

by LtWorf 2008-05-06 08:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Goodbye Alegre <eom>

Stop. Seriously, just stop. And I'm a strong Obama supporter.

Enough.

by Yalin 2008-05-06 08:41PM | 0 recs
Thanks Yalin

That update clearly doesn't apply to you.  Thanks.

by alegre 2008-05-06 09:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Thanks Yalin

No problemo. :)

by Yalin 2008-05-07 05:03AM | 0 recs
Uprated because of this...

If he comes out on top in IN tonight you can bet it'll be because they figured out how many votes they needed to steal in that last county.

That's a typical repug smear so ..... alegra .... seeya...

by JoeCoaster 2008-05-07 06:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Election irregularities

It's typical Chicago-style politics, not the politics of "hope."

by KnowVox 2008-05-07 08:16AM | 0 recs
typical Rove-style

Make baseless claims attempting to minimize Democratic voters. Nice.

by JoeCoaster 2008-05-07 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: typical Obama-style

Yes, that's another Obama tactic... as well as "minimizing Democratic voters" in Florida and Michigan.

by KnowVox 2008-05-07 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Goodbye Alegre <eom>

How rude and divisive?  Got them all covered, eh?  

by anna shane 2008-05-07 06:12AM | 0 recs
ok, this primary is so over.

by kindthoughts 2008-05-06 08:37PM | 0 recs
How many times have you said that

this season?

by catfish1 2008-05-06 08:42PM | 0 recs
this is the first time.

by kindthoughts 2008-05-06 08:42PM | 0 recs
Re: this is the first time.

let's just let things play out. Had the situation been reversed, the only thing I'd want right now is some magnanimity in the night's victory. Let them be.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-05-06 08:54PM | 0 recs
true

I am fine with it going all the way to the end.

by kindthoughts 2008-05-06 09:53PM | 0 recs
Tim Russert says its over

Tim Russert declared Obama the Democratic Presidential nominee. This thing only continued this long because the media was willing to play and pretend it was still up for grabs. No more. Time to donate to Obama and start the fight with McCain.

Russert video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDm3dEz9m mk

by ImpeachBushCheney 2008-05-06 09:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Tim Russert says its over

You know, in a real way if you donate to Obama, you may indirectly be donating to Hillary, and vice-versa.

You see, generally the losing candidate, if they come close enough, work out a deal whereby the winning candidate pays off the losing candidates debts.  And Hillary has a lot of them.  And won a lot of primaries.

I don't want to discourage anyone from donating anything - it's just a funny thought that popped into my head.

by Mostly 2008-05-06 10:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Tim Russert says its over
I sort of assumed that the way they'd structure it would be for Obama to agree to not strongly contest KY and WV, and let Hillary use some of the funds raised for those races to retire some debt before using Oregon as a denouement. But that would be contingent on them reaching an agreement for her to not take it to the floor in Denver, because otherwise I don't see the Obama camp letting her have the extra delegates without spending a lot of cash for them. But this way, she saves face and retires debt, and he gets the nomination without two probable losses immediately following it.
by Jay R 2008-05-06 10:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Tim Russert is a toad

Obama's not getting the nomination, no matter what Russert says. He's the guy who asked the UFO question, remember?

by KnowVox 2008-05-07 08:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Tim Russert is a toad
You should try soaking pickles in that kool-aid sometime, it's delicious! (:
by Jay R 2008-05-07 12:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Tim Russert says its over

I don't mind if my donation to Obama goes to retire Clinton's debt once she's out of the race.  They're both Democrats.  

If Clinton loses, I don't want her to have a huge debt to take into her next Senate campaign.  Same would hold true for Obama.

by mijita 2008-05-06 10:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Tim Russert says its over

Paying public universities for gymnasium rental...I'm ok with that.

Paying Mark Penn or repaying the 11.4 million the Clintons borrowed from themselves...very very NOT ok with that.

If they make such a deal, I really hope it doesn't include those two things.  The Clintons can make plenty of money (as evidenced by the fact that they already have made 109 million) and giving them 11 million dollars is offensive given the troubles so many face in this country.  If that money is on the table, it should go to a charity of which CLinton and Obama both approve.

by freedom78 2008-05-07 06:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Tim Russert says its over

If one penny of any political donation I have ever made goes into the pockets of Mark Penn, I'm quitting the circus.

by such sweet thunder 2008-05-06 10:55PM | 0 recs
Russert is a tool

and not very credible. He could be right, but I'll wait for another source.

by catfish1 2008-05-06 10:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Tim Russert says its over

I'm a strong Obama supporter, but I don't think Russert has any authority or inside track on the CW to say this nomination battle is over.  Tom Brokaw, whom I respect far more, once claimed that 50 superdelegates were ready to endorse Obama after March 4.

Russert certainly feeds into the CW, but that's where his powers of persuasion end.  And he's fickle: In a few news cycles, he may be again asking whether the momentum has swung back to Clinton.

by deminva 2008-05-07 05:09AM | 0 recs
Re: this is the first time.

2209 and not before.

by northstars 2008-05-07 05:58AM | 0 recs
It is sad really.

Democrats can see the wasted time and effort in Iraq, that there is no positive outcome by staying.   We shake our heads at the Republicans who say we have to stay until we win, thinking they are delusional.   But when we are in a pointless and destructive primary race we, say over and over  "In it to win it" and keep fighting Hillary.   I guess we do not have better judegement just care about diffrent things.  McCain is a fool for wanting to stay in until we win, but Clinton is a Hero?

by Tumult 2008-05-07 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

She may not win actually. The vote in Indiana is closing fast and the remaining counties are largely pro-obama. That said, I hope you support Obama as stridently as you've supported Clinton if he does indeed win Indiana tonight and she concedes eventually.

You've certainly been a thorn in the side of any Obama supporter. :)

by Yalin 2008-05-06 08:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

If he comes out on top in IN tonight you can bet it'll be because they figured out how many votes they needed to steal in that last county.

Hand-counting ballots in a primary that closed 5 HOURS AGO.  Seriously - this is all over Talk Left and the networks are even starting to talk about this now.

Stealing IN won't drive Hillary out of this race boys - it'll only strengthen her resolve to fight for what she knows is right and true.

by alegre 2008-05-06 08:47PM | 0 recs
that last county is the hugest one of all.

by kindthoughts 2008-05-06 08:53PM | 0 recs
Re: that last county is the hugest one of all.

The hugest?

Where did you learn English?

by switching sides 2008-05-06 10:02PM | 0 recs
kindly, lay off

by kindthoughts 2008-05-06 10:12PM | 0 recs
Re: that last county is the hugest one of all.

Maybe from reading Milton's Paradise Lost?

From book VII:

[. . .] there leviathan,
Hugest of living creatures, on the deep
Stretched like a promontory sleeps or swims,
And seems a moving land; and at his gills
Draws in, and at his trunk spouts out, a sea.

by Wes 2008-05-06 10:28PM | 0 recs
Re: that last county is the hugest one of all.

Milton was an idiot, though.

by switching sides 2008-05-06 10:58PM | 0 recs
ok, whats your problem?

by kindthoughts 2008-05-06 11:11PM | 0 recs
Re: that last county is the hugest one of all.

Not only you are racist but also clueless:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar y/hugest

by hania 2008-05-07 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I am really disappointed that you posted this.

by mefck 2008-05-06 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

A judge ordered the polls in Lake county kept open two extra hours.

http://www.post-trib.com/news/elections/ lake/934357,LAKERACES0506.article

11 p.m. Crown Point: Lake County Republican Chairman John Curley stood by his Democratic counterpart Rudy Clay as the nation waited for vote totals from Lake County. "There's no hanky panky going on," Curley said after members of the national media wondered why Lake County's votes were taking so much longer to count than the rest of the state. "We have more than 11,000 absentee ballots, far more than we've ever had before," Curley said, insisting it simply takes time to get through that many tallies.

The two party chairmen planned to meet at the government center at about 11 p.m., and Curley promised the vote totals would soon be released.

There's no fraud. Get a grip.

by Angry White Democrat 2008-05-06 08:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Yeah - and they tried this carp in Philly during the PA primary but the judge wasn't buying their attempt to milk more votes out of his strong hold.  They might not be "losing" any of hillary's ballots, but they're trying to create new ones for Obama by keeping the polls open two hours later than the rest of the state.

It's a pattern.  Face it - you're guy's anything but new when it comes to politics.  

by alegre 2008-05-06 09:23PM | 0 recs
Again - THERE IS NO FRAUD

There is no evidence whatsoever of any fraud in Lake county.

A few things happened to cause the delay:

1) A judge ordered polls kept open two extra hours.

2) They ran out of ballots and printed substitutes which had to be counted BY HAND.

3) They had 11,000 absentee ballots, far more then they've ever had before.

There's no fraud, and you should be ashamed of yourself for even suggesting it. If you have any integrity at all, you'll retract the accusation and apologize for it.

Hillary won a hard-fought race in Indiana tonight. I suggest you just be happy with that.

by Angry White Democrat 2008-05-06 09:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Again - THERE IS NO FRAUD

shy of fraud there is some maneuvering. What if Barack had won Florida and Michigan and Hillary had refused to go along with a revote. he's working all the angles. What's new isn't his tactics, or what he'll do as prez, it's that he's new on the scene in DC. Which also isn't new except that he's already in the prez contest. Isn't that new enough for you, you want him to be different too?  

by anna shane 2008-05-07 11:16AM | 0 recs
Your post makes no sense whatsoever

We were talking about the results from the Indiana primary.

by Angry White Democrat 2008-05-07 11:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

At least my guy is still relevant.

by lockewasright 2008-05-06 09:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

He won't be after 39 percent of the party throw him under the bus in the GE.

I'll never vote for him.

by switching sides 2008-05-06 10:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

keep watching.

by lockewasright 2008-05-06 10:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I beg your pardon, but he and Clinton stand for nearly the same policies. How would you not support him? Do you really think the campaign got itself involved in Lake country shinanigans?

They aren't stupid, and each side has supporters who have done regretful things.

by Falsehood 2008-05-07 12:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Any news on how the carp tasted? Was it over-salted? Under-cooked? Or was it just right?

by awobbly 2008-05-06 09:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

lighten up, folks. It's a little harmless snark about a typo, for goodness sakes.

by awobbly 2008-05-07 10:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Alegre, I'm really sorry to see you induling in conspiracy theories.  What is it you're even alleging?  That Obama conspired to gain a few extra votes in Lake county, but not win the state or even an extra delegate?  There was only one guy who was a bad actor tonight, and his name is Rush Limbaugh.    

And for me---I just think the more voters, the better.  I posted a diary earlier decrying the 12 nuns who were turned away from the polls.  Now, I assume those nuns were Hillary voters, but I still want them to vote and want their vote counted.

As for WV---well, I'm guessing that one won't be that Indiana close :)

by bosdcla14 2008-05-06 10:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

True - rmemeber the districts in Harlem which mysteriously went 100% for Hillary.  In Harlem.

I know if you're used to that world, you'd tend to view all others with suspicion.

by Mostly 2008-05-06 10:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Gary is such a poor city, cut the people there some slack. How many American counties could withstand the glare of the number hungry news orgs? They're just likely underfunded -- as most counties are with elections. They're just usually underfunded about the same, so you don't notice.

by Lettuce 2008-05-06 10:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

And usually it's not decisive.  We're constantly going to bed with "98% of the precincts reporting".  It's just incredibly rare that it matters at that point.

by Mostly 2008-05-06 11:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

And boy, John King was very angry that he had to wait. What did they think the Gary mayor would say: "We're overwhelmed! We're unprepared!"

by Lettuce 2008-05-07 04:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Good lord that was a travesty.  And what a punk the mayor of Hammond turned out to be.  "Mayor Clay, release the votes!" like "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"  As if he was personally holding on to them.  As if he was a ballot counter at all.  Rudy Clay could have said "no, YOU release the votes" and it would have made as much sense.

by Mostly 2008-05-07 12:50PM | 0 recs
Alegre

You can put down your weapons now.  The war is over.

[Olive branch extended]

by GFORD 2008-05-06 11:23PM | 0 recs
Re: GFORD

Until Florida and Michigan are counted, nothing is "over."

by KnowVox 2008-05-07 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

What a cheap shot.  Your candidate has a lot more class than that.

by rfahey22 2008-05-06 08:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Wow. Alegre. I came back and gave MyDD some traffic just because I had heard you'd said this.

Didn't I tell you that you were jeopardizing your writing future going so militantly for Clinton and staking your entire reputation on it? Now your first response is to accuse Senator Obama of stealing votes.

Bravo.

by ragekage 2008-05-06 08:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Alegre took a giant step away from credibility long ago.

by lockewasright 2008-05-06 09:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

If he comes out on top in IN tonight you can bet it'll be because they figured out how many votes they needed to steal in that last county.

You don't want to go down this path, Alegre...

I know you have a lot invested in the Clinton campaign, but if you have to lose, lose with class.

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-06 09:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Sorry....Alegre was right.  Hillary got more votes than Obama in Indiana.  Period.  As Obama would say, a win is a win.

by MMR2 2008-05-06 09:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Congratulations to her on her win.

Now can we drop the bullshit accusations of fraud??

by Angry White Democrat 2008-05-06 09:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Sorry....Alegre was right.  Hillary got more votes than Obama in Indiana.  Period.  As Obama would say, a win is a win.

She won a small skirmish. The war is over.

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-06 09:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Tell that to Bill Ayers.

by switching sides 2008-05-06 10:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Tell that to Bill Ayers.

From this little nugget and your sig-line, I can see you'd like to pretend as if the majority of the Democratic Party is comprised of drug-addled 60's radicals. How very Republican of you.

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-06 10:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

"""I can see you'd like to pretend as if the majority of the Democratic Party is comprised of drug-addled 60's radicals. """

Obama apparently thinks so, as he called Ayers 'mainstream'.

I don't vote for people who think that unrepentant terrorists are 'mainstream'.

by switching sides 2008-05-06 10:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I don't vote for people who think that unrepentant terrorists are 'mainstream'.

Then you certainly can't support the Clintons, who pardoned some of his comrades.

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-06 11:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

my impression is that "switching sides" was never likely to vote for any democrat in the general...

by kydoc 2008-05-07 09:44AM | 0 recs
I think you would be better
off going here, where your comments belong:
go here.
by fladem 2008-05-07 01:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Wow, what a distressingly ugly sig-line you have.  Fox's racial stereotyping factory would be proud of you.

by deminva 2008-05-07 05:16AM | 0 recs
Have any proof?

Unless you have hard evidence or facts, you're treading in the area of unsubstantiated myth.

http://www.post-trib.com/news/elections/ lake/934357,LAKERACES0506.article

11 p.m. Crown Point: Lake County Republican Chairman John Curley stood by his Democratic counterpart Rudy Clay as the nation waited for vote totals from Lake County. "There's no hanky panky going on," Curley said after members of the national media wondered why Lake County's votes were taking so much longer to count than the rest of the state. "We have more than 11,000 absentee ballots, far more than we've ever had before," Curley said, insisting it simply takes time to get through that many tallies.

So, until you provide evidence, I would hope you would not continue such irresponsible rumormongering.

by jaywillie 2008-05-06 09:03PM | 0 recs
As we've known...you are no Democrat...

This post clearly illustrates that.  Pathetic.

by Seeking Cincinnatus 2008-05-06 09:07PM | 0 recs
Well

Since I was on the phone with one of my precinct captains while Obama people reported a fraudulent delegate count in TX, I would ask you to reassess your standards, such as they are.

by Pacific John 2008-05-06 09:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Your comments are really sad.

by Yalin 2008-05-06 09:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

This is a surprisingly ugly comment, especially when read after your update above, in which you take posters to task for being rude or gloating.

The Gary mayor's Republican counterpart has asserted that there's nothing fishy going on.  And clearly, with the outcome now clear, there wasn't anything untoward happening.

I know absolutely nothing about Gary's mayor and unless corrected I'll assume the same is true for you.  Why would you cast aspersions at him?

by deminva 2008-05-07 05:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

It's fine to cheerlead, bu this is unacceptable.

If he comes out on top in IN tonight you can bet it'll be because they figured out how many votes they needed to steal in that last county.

And now that Hillary has won IN, does that mean you were wrong to suggest Obama supporters were stealing an election?

by dannyinla 2008-05-07 06:23AM | 0 recs
I am so sorry you are so angry.

Troll rated for being beneath a great poster's dignity.

by RisingTide 2008-05-07 06:41AM | 0 recs
Lyndon johnson 'stole' Gary for Obama

Martin Luther King couldn't sign the Voting Rights Act.

by benmasel 2008-05-07 07:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

This comment was wrong.  You know better.

by futbol dad 2008-05-07 07:05AM | 0 recs
I look forward to campaigning.

I look forward to supporting the Democratic nominee (unconditionally) and campaigning together with you, Alegre.

by Shem 2008-05-06 08:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

thanks for the diary - i really needed it after the gloating of many BO supporters here and in the media.  HRC was v. courageous in her speech but seeing CC and BC's faces behind her made me cry.  corny - i know, but you are right tomorrow is another day!

by canadian gal 2008-05-06 08:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

We need to get our head together and realize that this race WILL continue.  Nobody's leaveing so let's talk issues and keep fighting dammit.

by alegre 2008-05-06 08:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

So, do tell?  How the hell does she win now?  How?!?!  Hell, I'll give you Florida and Michigan.  You still lose!

by belicheat 2008-05-06 09:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

No need to push this tonight.  Give them some time.

by soccerandpolitics 2008-05-07 12:49AM | 0 recs
Full Speed Ahead to What?

It is time for many on this site to drink the proverbial reality drink.

If you can perform math, Hillary Clinton has LOST in every metric.  There is no way she can win.  And even if FL and MI delegates were seated, as is, she still LOSES.  Her cancelling all appearances speaks volumes, and if rumor is correct and she loaned her campaign more money, then the PA influx of money was not much on top of a mounting debt.

Last night nailed if for Barack Obama, he is the Democratic Nominee.

The Clintons would be foolish to run this to Denver and quite frankly expect major superdelegates to rally behind Barack, starting today.

It is over.  She can win WV, KY and Barack OR and May 20th, it is done.  She is out.

Now is about the Clinton legacy and keeping it in tact, they will do whatever to make sure Obama wins in November.  Period.

by Edna Howard 2008-05-07 04:23AM | 0 recs
Honestly no gloating.

Rather, sympathy.  If I were there I would bring you a Blizzard from the DQ...always worked for my roommate and I when we were feeling let down or sad.

by GFORD 2008-05-06 11:27PM | 0 recs
you fake sympathy won't work

the race is not over.  Obama is a loser in november.

by TeresaInPa 2008-05-07 02:16AM | 0 recs
The only certain thing is...

... that you are a loser right now.

by tbetz 2008-05-07 03:13AM | 0 recs
Re: you fake sympathy won't work

Seems we're going to get a chance to find out.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-07 04:10AM | 0 recs
Sounds unsettlingly like...

.... you may feel a personal commitment to that particular outcome. I hope that's not the case.

by odum 2008-05-07 04:15AM | 0 recs
Good luck
Jeez, testy are we?
You're candidate lost pretty badly last night, and somebody tries to soften it with a little empathy, and you throw it right back in their faces. That's sweet.
I know you're not at your best, but, Lord, a lot of Obama people are trying to be understanding. You aren't making it easy.
by Mumphrey 2008-05-07 06:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Good luck
D'Ohh!
Should be "YOUR candidate".
by Mumphrey 2008-05-07 06:42AM | 0 recs
Not fake Theresa.

I was feeling very sad last night and still today.  This race has been like the civil war pitting brother against brother (sister against sister).  Nobody feels happy about that.

by GFORD 2008-05-07 07:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Nice diary.

by durendal 2008-05-06 08:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Peace.  We need you.

by slippy 2008-05-06 11:44PM | 0 recs
I know you worked hard on this, but...

Indiana is still up in the air.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-06 08:36PM | 0 recs
Re: I know you worked hard on this, but...

CBS called it over an hour ago.

by alegre 2008-05-06 08:50PM | 0 recs
CBS has had egg on its face all night

since they called it. It's been "too close to call" for a couple of hours now.

by Bee 2008-05-06 08:57PM | 0 recs
Re: I know you worked hard on this, but...

So, since CBS called it an hour ago... we should ignore all further results?

by ragekage 2008-05-06 08:59PM | 0 recs
16,000 votes, alegre

CBS doesn't have a lot of credibility here.  CNN and MSNBC didn't call it, and in fact the remaining outstanding votes are Obama strongholds.

I'm not trying to rub salt on the wound, but you may want to check another network.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-06 09:12PM | 0 recs
Re: 16,000 votes, alegre

You lose, she did win even though your Gary Obama Mayor was such a buffoon

by anya109 2008-05-06 10:26PM | 0 recs
Huh?

It was a statistical tie.  The delegates will be a tie.  Clinton won by a lower margin than the voters who exit-polled that they would rather have McCain in the White House.

I'm actually glad she won Indiana, because it gives her a little dignity to salvage her fundraising and start paying off her debts.

And yes, the Gary mayor seemed incredibly sketchy. I don't know what was up with him.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-07 05:54AM | 0 recs
Re: 16,000 votes, alegre

Wow, from Alegre's update, I thought it was the Obama supporters that were acting poorly. This comment is beneath you.

by futbol dad 2008-05-07 07:13AM | 0 recs
Re: I know you worked hard on this, but...

Barely 2% win. They split delegates which is the key here. Big win for Obama in NC. nearly 15. Obama will get more of a delegate lead.  compare that to Hillary's lead in PA dwindling all the way to 8.6% at the end from a similar 20% plus  poll lead.

by Pravin 2008-05-06 11:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Alegre-turn on the TV.  Indiana is too close to call.

by mefck 2008-05-06 08:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

CBS called it for Hillary over an hour ago.  And I'm sorry but if you're talking about MSNBO - I'm one of the millions out there who can't afford cable.  So I'll have to rely on PBS and the other regular - you know... free networks if you don't mind.

by alegre 2008-05-06 08:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Well, you have a computer, right?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24481004/

Click the link at the top of the page. Currently 16k votes separating them.

by upstate girl 2008-05-06 08:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Yeah - sorry but MSNBC lost all credibility with me ages ago.

by alegre 2008-05-06 08:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Wow- cognitive dissonance much?

Heck, MSNBC pulls from the same sources as CNN, FOX, et all- look at any of those and stop playing these games.

by ragekage 2008-05-06 09:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Its called Denial

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-06 09:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

ok, here: http://www.foxnews.com/

by mefck 2008-05-06 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

So you're going with results that were called hours too early, when it actually is too close to call? Do you consider a victory of less than 20k votes out of hundreds of thousands to be decisive, especially when at the most she'll net one delegate? I understand you don't like MSNBC, but is that any reason to think that the numbers they (and everyone else) are reporting aren't true?

by upstate girl 2008-05-06 09:05PM | 0 recs
I was listening to NPR

on my drive back to the Cities,

They were saying to earlier to call (even after Clinton gave the speech).

NPR is on the "Good" Media List, right?

by Student Guy 2008-05-06 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: I was listening to NPR

Actually, there was some anger towards them a bit ago for talking about goalpost-moving.  I can't remember the specifics.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-06 09:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Then go to foxnews.com and see what they say.  Serious, enough Alegre.  I am sorry you can't afford cable, but you can obviously afford the internet, so then watch the free streams online.

by mefck 2008-05-06 09:00PM | 0 recs
Hillary's mother

Love this part:

My mother had a difficult childhood, but worked hard to provide a loving home for us. And she didn't attend college herself, but was determined her children would. And I don't think she ever dreamed she would see a night like this. Their story, like every one of our stories, is the American story. It's a story of men and women who embrace opportunity, never waver in the face of adversity, and never stop believing in the promise of America. And yet today, I have met so many people here in Indiana and across America who feel invisible.

She really understands this at a deep level.

by catfish1 2008-05-06 08:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary's mother

I'm reading her book "Living History" and yeah... her mom had a more than difficult childhood.  But she got through it and Hillary's made of the same tough stuff.

by alegre 2008-05-06 08:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

"No surprises today"?  Um, ok.

by rfahey22 2008-05-06 08:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

No surprises today, and no media appearances tomorrow.

by Mostly 2008-05-06 10:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

How can we say go full speed ahead when this nomination battle is over? Get over it, I am a Clinton supporter, but wake up and smell the coffee, she is done and there is no denying it.

by American1989 2008-05-06 08:38PM | 0 recs
Florida Michigan are big states

She still has a case. This is a historic campaign and there's no reason to drop out before the end.

by catfish1 2008-05-06 08:40PM | 0 recs
she won't get enough

delegates or popular vote even with FL/MI as is now.

This thing is over.

by kindthoughts 2008-05-06 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: she won't get enough

You guys DO realize that no candidate can with this with just pledged delegates - right?

This thing is far from over and Hillary's taking this to the convention.

by alegre 2008-05-06 08:58PM | 0 recs
If it's confirmed

that Hillary has canceled events for tomorrow, will you manage somehow to spin that as a triumph for Hillary too?

by kellogg 2008-05-06 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: she won't get enough

You really just can't see the forest for the trees can you?  You damn well know Hillary's win would be overturning the will of the popular vote as opposed to ratifying it.  Theres a huge difference, don't act stupid.

by belicheat 2008-05-06 09:23PM | 0 recs
Re: she won't get enough

i know this is tough to digest, but it ain't going to the convention. if it goes to next week, i'll be surprised. betcha a dollar he pulls 15 or so supers by friday...

by jbill 2008-05-06 09:44PM | 0 recs
Re: she won't get enough

That would be political suicide.  She's not going to destroy herself.  She will withdraw before the convention.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-07 04:13AM | 0 recs
Let's not argue tonight.

Hopefully in the next 24 hours things will sink in and we can all reevaluate the race from an objective standpoint.

There is too much emotion right now.

by you like it 2008-05-06 09:06PM | 0 recs
Kind Thoughts--Be kind.

Lay off them.  It's one thing for HRC supporters to tell other supporters it's over.  But we don't need to add insult to injury by doing it also.  Just please give them some space.  They'll come around.  Even Alegre.

by The Distillery 2008-05-06 09:08PM | 0 recs
I will be shutting up now.

by kindthoughts 2008-05-06 10:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Michigan are big states

Mathematically, MI and FL are moot points now.

Its over.

Goodnight.

by IowaMike 2008-05-06 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Michigan are big states

I'll bet you that if Obama gets the momentum from superdelegates and such, they'll seat MI/FL as soon as he passes 2208 and be done with it. Or else they'll seat 'em 50% and 2180, or whatever it'll be.

by ragekage 2008-05-06 09:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

She ran a great campaign the last month or so, but its now over.  She'll be forced out within a week.  Even if she stays in longer, I hope her supporters follow her lead and avoid negative attacks which are not helpful to our party at this point.

by KevinT 2008-05-06 08:38PM | 0 recs
5 campaign offices open in Oregon

They're staying open. Just let it play out.

by catfish1 2008-05-06 08:39PM | 0 recs
Re: 5 campaign offices open in Oregon

And we are literally opening up more as I type.

by Pacific John 2008-05-06 09:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

She's earned the right to continue.  I agree that the negative attacks should stop, but she should be able to leave on her own terms, not be forced out.

by you like it 2008-05-06 09:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Negative attacks, not helpful...? Someone should have told that to Obama.  Now we're never going to get a decent universal healthcare plan.

by Montague 2008-05-07 04:01AM | 0 recs
So good to see Alegre's diary!

I'm travelling to Oregon this weekend to campaign for Hillary. This is a historic campaign, she is going down in history. I am donating mroe $$ right now.

She is a winner and a champ and to ask her to quit is simply unAmerican!

by catfish1 2008-05-06 08:39PM | 0 recs
Re: So good to see Alegre's diary!

And can we ever use you. By my calculations, if any one of our OR phone banks had been out or action, Obama would have taken IN. I mean, I don't mind helping to win a state, but this one was a little too close for comfort.

by Pacific John 2008-05-06 09:23PM | 0 recs
Re: So good to see Alegre's diary!

That's funny, I'm travelling to Oregon this weekend to campaign for Obama.

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-06 09:54PM | 0 recs
Re: So good to see Alegre's diary!

she is going down in history

I think you need to remove "in history" and you arrive at the most accurate statement.

Penn earned his money on this one!

by reggie44pride 2008-05-07 01:03AM | 0 recs
Re: So good to see Alegre's diary!

she makes history every day  

say what you want about Hillary but a quitter is not one of them

by wellinformed 2008-05-07 03:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

The "official" Obama nomination tour will have to do a detour into the land of unelectability (for him).

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-05-06 08:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

i don't think the obama supporters have thought it through. the obama campaign has already sacrificed FL and MI in the general to try to get the nomination. they are focused exlusively on the nomination, even though it will be worthless.

by campskunk 2008-05-06 08:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Please stop being patronizing to the people supporting the candidate in the lead by every possible metric. Its one thing to believe your decision is the correct one, but to make the general assumption that people just haven't "thought it through" is insultive and absurd. Like other people in this country aren't hurting as badly as you? Or as intelligent? Or have concerns that aren't as valid, or that they're not capable of deciding on valid considerations?

by upstate girl 2008-05-06 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Sooo... it's ok to be rude and patronizing to someone who backs the other candidate because of where things stand right now?

Take a look around - are you proud of how some of your fellow followers are acting here tonight?

by alegre 2008-05-06 09:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I wasn't aware I had to respond to every individual on this board, or answer for their behavior. I haven't required the same from you. I'm discussing your comments specifically, and they're nothing to be proud of, regardless of what "everyone else" is saying.

by upstate girl 2008-05-06 09:09PM | 0 recs
No, its not ok.

Nobody should be patronizing or rude to anyone.  We're all on the same side, or at least we should be.

by you like it 2008-05-06 09:09PM | 0 recs
Re: No, its not ok.

No same side here.  Brazile states that the Dems don't need no white working people, or Hispanics and heaven forbid, gays who denigrate the Civil Rights movement.  Or, how about that Gary, Indiana Mayor - check out the disbelief from even Wolf Blitzer on the delay.  Or, MI and FL voters don't count, the roolz are the roolz except if they may not favor Obama.

by anya109 2008-05-06 10:35PM | 0 recs
Re: No, its not ok.

I know Jerome was upset about this, but you've got to be kidding if some off-handed comment by a candidate-backing pundit offends you.

I mean, given all that was said minimizing caucus states, or Obama states, or small states, or elites or whatever, neither Jerome nor anyone here should pretend to have such thin skin as to weep when Brazile runs at the mouth.

But if that's what you need right now, by all means...

by Lettuce 2008-05-06 10:47PM | 0 recs
Brazile said nothing of the sort

You're spreading a deliberate misinterpretation of what Brazile really said. Go back and read the transcript of the whole exchange that Jerome posted about (and used to set up a ridiculous straw-man).

Brazile was saying the democrats' base is no longer just blue collar voters and hispanics, but also included the "new coalition" of several other demographics. She was, in effect, doing the opposite of what you're accusing her of doing.

by kydoc 2008-05-07 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I don't subscribe to the idea that the bad behavior of one group excuses the bad behavior of another. Both sides have had members showing their asses tonight (and, for that matter, throughout this Primary).

If someone is being rude and patronizing, nasty and crass or just plain asshole'ish....it does not matter who they support...they are a rude, patronizing, nasty, crass asshole.

Both sides have them and neither side should excuse the behavior of such 'supporters'.

Shorter version:
2 wrongs don't make a right.

by Kysen 2008-05-06 09:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!
Absolutely.  It's time we all got a little reality based.  Holding people to impossible standards is not the same as holding them to high standards.  Neither candidate is perfect, but they're BOTH a hell of a lot better than the alternative.  
     Both of the campaigns are where they are at.  At least, I think that people on both sides will realize that there are more important things to worry about than the mayor.  So let's let it play out.
    In basketball, when you are behind by a few points with seconds to go, it's best to not start committing flagrant fouls.  And, conversely, if you are ahead by a few points with seconds to go, it's not wise to start taunting your opponent - there's always another game coming up.
by haremoor 2008-05-07 12:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Now, now...  No fighting over the life boats.

by username3 2008-05-06 08:57PM | 0 recs
Understand & agree with you camp

I never would have understood if it weren't for the 2004 election. There was no valid reason on earth to substantiate re-electing George W. Bush as president, and in fact John Kerry drew the 2nd largest vote in presidential history to make sure it didn't happen. 2nd largest wasn't enough however, because Bush managed to draw the largest due in no small measure to the Republican party's ability to take a bonified war hero and portray him as questionably anti-American based merely on decades old conflicting memories. With that in mind, you can't discount the high probability that the Republican party will use Wright to win another election they otherwise never would have. If Obama is the nominee, get ready for Election 2004 The Sequel: Wrightboat.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-05-06 09:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Understand & agree with you camp

With that in mind, you can't discount the high probability that the Republican party will use Wright to win another election they otherwise never would have. If Obama is the nominee, get ready for Election 2004 The Sequel: Wrightboat.

Stiffen your spine. We aren't afraid anymore.

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-06 09:10PM | 0 recs
Quote:

"In an ominous note for Obama, nearly half of Indiana voters rated "the importance of the situation with Rev. Wright" as "very or somewhat" important. That is a remarkably high number considering these are Democratic voters and it has been mostly non-Democrats who polls show are most offended by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's controversial statements."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/050 8/10142_Page2.html

by phoenixdreamz 2008-05-06 10:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Understand & agree with you camp

Why dont you adopt the attitude "if they can do it to KIerry, we can do it to mcCain" instead of accepting defeat?

by Pravin 2008-05-06 11:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Understand & agree with you camp

WRIGHTBOAT????

oh yeah because it worked so well already

by wellinformed 2008-05-07 03:13AM | 0 recs
How it plays out

in the nomination process verses general election are two entirely different matters altogether.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-05-07 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

i don't think the obama supporters have thought it through. the obama campaign has already sacrificed FL and MI in the general to try to get the nomination.

I don't think we're going to win Florida running against a geriatric veteran supported by two very popular Republican governors, so that's beside the point. But you'll notice that according to the electoral map on this very site, Obama wins Michigan whereas Clinton does not. How do you square that one?

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-06 09:06PM | 0 recs
good God
MI doesn't make up for FL, PA and OH.  MI will go blue no matter what.  Obama is not losing Fl because of the delegates, though that is part of it.  He is losing it because he is a terrible candidate in most demographic groups.
He is going to lose in November and McCain is going to be your next president.
by TeresaInPa 2008-05-07 03:19AM | 0 recs
Re: good God

Not if the party rallies round. Look at the registration and primary turnout. Any democratic nominee would have got a unity bounce. It was a protracted, heated and substantial primary campaign. Nobody can say neither candidate has been tested.

by duende 2008-05-07 08:48AM | 0 recs
Thanks for your support

You should let go of a little of that bitterness; it's dragging you down.

by kellogg 2008-05-07 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

But, don't try to pretend that the land(s) of unelectability like WV or KY (neither would have gone for him in the first place) matter numerically after Obama wiped out her PA gains.

by Lettuce 2008-05-06 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

you stay classy jerome

by aaaa05 2008-05-06 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

What does that mean, exactly?

by Darknesse 2008-05-06 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I guess he's saying that Obama won't get the nomination before he has to go through Kentucky and West Virginia, which will be large Clinton wins.

I think. Or not.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-05-06 08:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

That was going to be my reply.  What the hell does this even mean?

by The Distillery 2008-05-06 09:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

or for any democrat in the fall...

by mefck 2008-05-06 08:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Is this one of those statements that a person has to be drunk to understand?

by rfahey22 2008-05-06 08:48PM | 0 recs
I'm pretty drunk right now,

and I think I understand it well enough. It's a shameful comment.  

by kellogg 2008-05-06 09:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

That is really disappointing from you Jerome.

by kasjogren 2008-05-06 08:48PM | 0 recs
Heh,

I like how this diary stayed positive about Clinton and avoided Obama bashing, and you had to go ahead and throw in a slam at Obama.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-06 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Good that Sen. McCain can count on your support.

by craigk724 2008-05-06 08:51PM | 0 recs
I won't vote for McCain

But as I've said all along, if Obama is the nominee, McCain will be the next President.

I know my saying that won't make Obama supporters believe it. But you can't win an election with his demographics.

For whatever reason, the Democratic Party leadership thinks the "New" Democratic Party should be wealthy(er) whites, African Americans, and students, and that this somehow adds up to a winning coalition. It doesn't.

Maybe they don't really want to win the election. I am beginning to wonder.

The saddest thing about this whole debacle is that working class people do not have a party that works for them.

by OtherLisa 2008-05-06 08:59PM | 0 recs
Re: I won't vote for McCain

Can you explain how your candidate can win with less than 10% of the African-American vote?

by craigk724 2008-05-06 09:01PM | 0 recs
Better question

Can you explain how your candidate wins without everyone else?

by phoenixdreamz 2008-05-06 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Better question

He is winning. He won HUGE in NC today, and tied in IN.

by Tatan 2008-05-06 09:45PM | 0 recs
We are discussing

the general election in this thread.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-05-06 09:48PM | 0 recs
Re: We are discussing

Oh were you?  It's funny how you need to pass through a primary first and actually win it tends to confuse the issue.

Anyway neither candidate can win with their current coalitions.  It's ludicrous to suggest that either one of them would go on to the general election with their primary voters only.

by Mostly 2008-05-06 10:35PM | 0 recs
Load up the MyDD front page...

and take a look at the little electoral-vote-counter widget thingy on the top left.

Based on current polls, Obama would apparently win the general election against McCain by taking Colorado, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Minnesota, despite losing Florida and Ohio.

Obviously polls go back and forth a lot, but Obama's in position to win, especially if Clinton and her supporters do everything they can to make it happen.

by ZombieRoboNinja 2008-05-06 10:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Load up the MyDD front page...

You forget we're still in the candidate nomination phase. Kerry was up over Bush too for a long time before the general race really started heating up. Rev. Wright has booked more  speaking engagements, and the Republicans haven't even begun their campaign against Obama.  

by phoenixdreamz 2008-05-06 10:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Load up the MyDD front page...

Obama in the general?  I don't think it's that hard to imagine.  Two names: Ted Strickland and Ed Rendell.  Strickland will have to be given the VP slot, unless Obama decides to go chasing after Texas -- which is a possibility with Bill Richardson.  

This is perhaps the best potential election cycle for democrats in decades.  Not only is Bush a monumental fuck up, but we have vibrant democratic governors in what are traditionally the most important two swing states.

by such sweet thunder 2008-05-06 10:51PM | 0 recs
Kerry was never really up

Kerry was up over Bush too for a long time before the general race really started heating up.

Revisionist History is so lazy.

Can you point to where Kerry was up for a "long time?"

I'll help:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Preside ntial_04/chart3way.html

by reggie44pride 2008-05-07 01:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Better question

All this talk of Obama not being able to pull support from others who have previously supported Clinton in the primaries is rubbish.

Its also insulting to many, if not most, Clinton supporters who do not want a President McCain.

I'd also point out to you that Obama wins votes outside of AAs in many, many states.  He puts many more states into play than any Democratic candidate for president has for several elections.

by sorrodos 2008-05-06 10:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Better question

That's a little self-absorbed. Though you guys are numerous, and very very nice and fun to have at parties, you guys don't number "everyone else" beyond African Americans.

Just saying.

by Lettuce 2008-05-06 10:51PM | 0 recs
Re: I won't vote for McCain

Obama works less for the working class because they fell for Clinton's retarded blue-collar charade?

by belicheat 2008-05-06 09:28PM | 0 recs
Re: I won't vote for McCain

Nice.

by asherrem 2008-05-06 09:44PM | 0 recs
Re: I won't vote for McCain

OtherLisa, the interests of black and white working class voters are not mutually exclusive.

by Mostly 2008-05-06 10:37PM | 0 recs
Re: I won't vote for McCain

Please explain how an old windbag that is the republican nomineee can still win the general when he still looses almost 20% of the vote to canidates that have already dropped out months ago..

Check ou tthe republican results if you need clarity.

by Winterblink 2008-05-07 01:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

did you read Hill's astrological charts to come up with that one?

by Prison4BushCo 2008-05-06 08:52PM | 0 recs
Sorry

but I had to troll rate your comment as it's clearly intended as an attack on Jerome. I know, because I giggled and said "ouch" when I read it.

by Mobar 2008-05-07 08:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Nice.  

Asshole.  

by LarsThorwald 2008-05-06 08:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Funny, but isn't that what they said about him at the beginning of this primary! And look at the results now. Obama just beat the most powerful couple in the Democratic party. Truly an amazing accomplishment.

by venician 2008-05-06 09:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Good God, Jerome, truly- have you no shame, sir?

by ragekage 2008-05-06 09:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

No, I don't think so.  It's very sad.

by deminva 2008-05-07 05:24AM | 0 recs
Oh, Jerome, you hurt my feelings....n/t

by clad 2008-05-06 09:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Yeah, those trendsetters in Kentucky and West Virginia.  I'm sure you -and the nation- really look to them for political guidance.

by minnesotaryan 2008-05-06 09:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Hey! There are some trendsetters in Kentucky, dammit! Look what we've done for fried chicken!

by kydoc 2008-05-07 10:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Jerome, we all know you've poured alot of energy into saying Barack Obama isn't electable.  At this point, though, don't you think it's time to give the 16 million people who voted for him the benefit of the doubt?  You might think your crystal ball is infallible, but the future has not been written and now it's up to all of us to make history.

by CA Pol Junkie 2008-05-06 09:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Even Kos agrees that Hillary should keep going:

Hillary, don't drop out! (yet)

by Lefty Coaster 2008-05-06 10:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Yes, the unelectable one.  Even BTD now has serious doubts about Obama winning.  And he was the one that kept posting how Obama could expand the map.  

by anya109 2008-05-06 10:39PM | 0 recs
I have serious doubts about Wal-Mart Armando

Myself.  That guy is dumb as a post.

by JJE 2008-05-07 06:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Bwhahahahaha.  Hey, say something else about how bad Clinton hurt Obama on tha gas tax for me, will you?  I don't want the laughs to stop.  Biggest casualty of this election season: mydd's reputation.  Letting paid campaign shills spam the diaries for over a year now, and spouting off with garbage about our party's nominee like this 24/7.  It's really a revelation of everything that online political activity has to offer this country, in that it plumbs the depths of all the worst aspects at once, so now we all know what the floor of the medium looks like.  I hope you're proud of what a laughingstock you and your blog have become.  I can't wait to read the litany of I-told-you-so diaries on this site.  Those will be really helpful and constructive, I'm sure.  You just know so much better than the rest of us, don't you?

But I have to think that it probably would have worked out better for you if you went the digby/atrios "undecided" party line and kept your mouth shut.  Who's going to hire you as a consultant now?  No one getting my donations, that's for sure.  It's clear you have no data and pull all your "insights" about politics and the internet straight out of your ass.  Gas tax, bwhahahahaha.  The best part was when she still brought it up in her speech tonight.  Way to go, Jerome.  Just like the Clintonite consultant morons who decided to blow off all the caucuses and half of the states (you know, the folks who pay Alegre's salary), you really have a special gift for failing spectacularly, selling out your party along the way, and then embarassing yourself even more with your sour grapes in the aftermath.  

by msbatxnyc 2008-05-06 11:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

What?  Obama can't win all 50 states?  The horror!

by Skaje 2008-05-07 02:45AM | 0 recs
Thanks for leading by example /s n/t

by bookish 2008-05-07 02:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I haven't been here long, but you apparently set the tone here, Mr. Armstrong.  Classy.

by LtWorf 2008-05-07 03:35AM | 0 recs
May we then take it that this begins...

... your campaign to have McCain nominate Hillary as his running mate?

Because that's the only way McCain becomes more electable than Obama.

by tbetz 2008-05-07 05:36AM | 0 recs
i think Obama supporters should step back a bit

It looks like Clinton is fashioning a respectful exit.

by highgrade 2008-05-06 08:41PM | 0 recs
Re: i think Obama supporters should step back a bi

It sure seems like it.  I suspect that if she chooses to continue on, it will be a much different and more positive campaign.

Hopefully her MyDD supporters and even some of the front page authors follow her lead.

by KevinT 2008-05-06 08:46PM | 0 recs
Re: i think Obama supporters should step back a bi

Unbelievable.

Obama runs a race-baiting, anything to win campaign and slags HRC in his ads and with just about every speech he makes. Have you even been watching HRC's campaign? Her speeches? They have been overwhelmingly positive. She's the one who has said repeatedly that she will work for the Democratic nominee.

I've never seen anything like this in my political life. I hope I never see anything like this again.

by OtherLisa 2008-05-06 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: i think Obama supporters should step back a bi

If that's your honest interpretation of the situation, then I'm sorry. Nothing anyone says will be able to convince you otherwise. And trying to convince you to vote for him if he's the Democratic candidate at the very least to prevent a McCain presidency is the last resort - well, hopefully you'll come around to that decision on your own. No one else will be able to convince you of the importance of that either, compared to the slights you feel.

by upstate girl 2008-05-06 09:07PM | 0 recs
Re: i think Obama supporters should step back a bi

I'm guessing with a handle like upstate girl that your political life is somewhat shorter than mine. Forgive me if I'm wrong. I've seen some bad stuff but Obama's campaign takes the prize.

I started out an Edwards supporter. Figured I would move to Obama. Found that the more I saw of him the less I liked him and that surprisingly, HRC's policy positions in most areas (e.g., healthcare) are closer to mine.

I also saw that she had the ability to build a winning coalition. Obama does not, IMO.

He along with his supporters and media enablers have written off and alienated huge swaths of the Democratic electorate.

I won't vote for McCain but a lot of other Democrats will. They feel (incorrectly IMO) that McCain is a moderate politically. And they do not trust Obama. Some of this is a function of his race, but I don't think that's even close to his biggest problem. It's his associations with people like Ayers, his inexperience and the perception people have of him being some crazed lefty radical. Hell, I'd like him better if he were! But he's more of a corporatist centrist than Hillary is.

Someone put it elsewhere: the working class will vote for McCain in large numbers if Obama is the nominee because neither party has much to offer them economically. They'll go with McCain because he'll win the experience argument and the national security argument. I know that makes no sense given the disaster that the Bush administration has been for our true national security. But I'll bet large sums of money that this is what will happen.

And I will never forgive the Democratic Party establishment for betraying working people by gaming the system for the benefit of an unelectable candidate.

by OtherLisa 2008-05-06 09:23PM | 0 recs
Re: i think Obama supporters should step back a bi

And to clarify my own comments about race...I think that the Obama campaign decided that in order to win, they needed close to 100% of the African American electorate. They used a strategy of painting the Clintons as racists, in order to peel away the Clintons' formerly strong African American support.

The problem is that this can and probably will really backfire in the general election. There have been far too many accusations by Obama supporters that essentially said that if you didn't support Obama, you were a racist. I think this is part of why you've seen Obama's support among whites decline over the course of the primary.

by OtherLisa 2008-05-06 09:29PM | 0 recs
One last comment

I hate painting this whole thing in "black and white" as it were. The other problem Obama has is his lack of appeal to Hispanics, Asians, etc. His trouble with blue collar people goes far beyond the white working class. Yet supporters like Donna Brazille think the "New Improved Democratic Party" can be built with latte liberals, African Americans and college students alone.

it won't work.

by OtherLisa 2008-05-06 09:35PM | 0 recs
Re: One last comment

It is the same old losing coalition that fostered McGovern.  The Dems never learn.

by anya109 2008-05-06 10:40PM | 0 recs
i've never been this angry about anything

and I hope when the history of this campaign is written, they will talk about how the Obama guys played the race card and smeared the Clintons. I hope they don't try this with the GOP. It may be enough to drive conservatives out in droves to the polls, and turn off the Hillary supports half his party is. The GOP won't have to worry about pissing off blacks, because it will just get all the angry white people in the south and elsewhere, and get them to vote against Obama. I can see the ads now on TV, "Committee Against Racism" being 527s accusing Obama of the race card, bashing affirmative action, and getting them to the polls.

I hope Obama does win in November, but Hillary challenges him in '12, and takes the nomination, and gets back the White House. Unlike Ted Kennedy, she hasn't killed anyone yet, and she and Bill know how to run a campaign, when Mark Penn is not around. I only hope Obama wins so we can slightly improve from where we are now, and keep the GOP demoralized, but Hillary take it back in '12 because she deserves the Presidency, and will do a better job by far.

by DiamondJay 2008-05-06 10:29PM | 0 recs
Re: i think Obama supporters should step back a bi

With all due respect, your talking points are based on a lot of opinion, and not a lot of facts to back it up.

You say she's built a winning coalition - yet no Democratic presidential candidate has won the White House without the black vote, which she's handily lost, while Obama is holding quite well with the percentages of white voters he has. The NYT/CBS poll holds that up directly: http://208.76.84.21/thefield/?p=1144

That's also in addition to the fact that in order to win the General, she'd have to be able to win the primary on any metric - delegate count, popular vote, number of states won - which she hasn't been able to do and at this point almost assuredly will not.

"Supporters and media enablers" is shorthand for buying into the talking head/cable tv/internet white noise and taking it far too seriously. If you cannot weigh a slighted ego against the very real future of our country under a McCain presidency and policies, then age is not the metric by which we should be judging the validity and understanding of politics.

You say things like "you won't vote for McCain, but a lot of other Democrats will". No cite for this, just opinion. Same with "they do not trust Obama". I've seen numerous polls that suggest Clinton is viewed as more untrustworthy by a majority of voters, one of which I wrote a diary about if you want to look it up (her numbers haven't improved since then).

I'd be happy to discuss with you potential ramifications and make assumptions about the upcoming general with either Democratic candidate in the role of nominee, but unless you're willing to go past subjective opinion then we're at a stalemate before we begin. You're welcome to your opinion, but you're not going to change mine based solely on it when I've done enough research to come to it rationally.

by upstate girl 2008-05-06 09:38PM | 0 recs
Re: i think Obama supporters should step back a bi

Are you high right now?  Seriously, are you on drugs?

by belicheat 2008-05-06 09:28PM | 0 recs
Re: i think Obama supporters should step back a bi

When Hillary stops, I stop.  And for the first time since 1960 I will not be active in a presidential campaign.  I've had my lifetime quota of losers.  I don't intend to invest in another one.  

by Tolstoy 2008-05-06 09:03PM | 0 recs
Re: i think Obama supporters should step back a bi

So Hillary is the last loser you will ever invest in? Too bad you have to go out on a low note...

by alvernon 2008-05-06 09:38PM | 0 recs
Re: i think Obama supporters should step back a bi

I assume you're either dense or were being sarcastic.  I thought it was obvious I was referring to the general election prospects for an Obama nomination.  

by Tolstoy 2008-05-07 09:07AM | 0 recs
Re: i think Obama supporters should step back a bi

Actually, I also thought you were talking about Hillary Clinton.

by Mostly 2008-05-07 01:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Yeah, Hillary did just what she needed to do!  Lose the cumulative popular vote by enough to allow the DNC to seat Florida and Michigan!  Go democrats! Go Hillary!

Man, seriously I love this.  I love Indiana right now.  Even if she hangs on, she gains, what, 10k? 20k?

Not nearly enough for this to realistically keep going!  I mean, of course she will, "full speed ahead" and all that nonsense, but she's just about statistically eliminated from winning the popular vote, which was the LAST metric she could use to woo super delegates.

Her only, repeat, ONLY hope at this point is that   Obama completely implodes.  Of course, supers will find it pretty tacky to stick around trying to cripple the 99% sure thing nominee, and will step in and end it.  Look at all those run on sentences and exclamation points, I'm excited :)

by minnesotaryan 2008-05-06 08:43PM | 0 recs
Try not to take too much joy in it.

I mean, it doesn't look good.  

I kinda wish there wasn't a cliffhanger and Clinton just won by 4%.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-06 08:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Try not to take too much joy in it.

Listen, I know a lot of Hillary supporters who are fantastic people who I love and respect deeply.  Hillary herself is a great leader and wonderful candidate and any other election I would have been an ardent supporter of hers.

As a democrat, I'm thrilled that this is all but over and we can concentrate on McCain, but as someone who gets bored at work?  Pretty sad that this blog will either turn into a conservative identity crisis or become really really boring.

If I thought for a instant that Alegre or TeresaPA or any other the other posters that I enjoy so much gave anything I wrote a second thought, maybe I would be more careful to not offend, but they don't.  I'm not changing any minds.  If they and people like them come around and see McCain for what he is (flawed and horrible for the country) and Obama for what he is (flawed but possibly great for the country), then they'll find that from some other source, not from anything I write.

by minnesotaryan 2008-05-06 09:15PM | 0 recs
Number one rule of arguing on the internets:

With few exceptions, you'll never convince the person you argue with.  Your target audience, here or anywhere, is always the lurkers.

by leftneck 2008-05-07 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Number one rule of arguing on the internets:

That is, word for word, something I've probably said like a gazillion times in my life.

by Mostly 2008-05-07 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I don't think there's any need for Obama supporters (like myself) to get all worked up and obnoxious about this diary.

If Clinton supporters want to stay excited about their candidate, and their candidate is still in the race, that's no big deal.

by Slim Tyranny 2008-05-06 08:45PM | 0 recs
End of the road, alegre

No exit.

Hillary's canceled all her media engagements for tomorrow.

Time to let reality dawn. The campaign now begins in earnest against McCain.

by Bee 2008-05-06 08:45PM | 0 recs
Not our call

We need to give Clinton the space to decide what she needs to do.

We shouldn't make assumptions.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-06 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Obama can now seat Michigan and Florida in full

it is over

by cardboard 1 2008-05-06 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

you are probably right.  but do you see the hypocrisy in what you just said?  v. sad.

by canadian gal 2008-05-06 08:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I think it is fair the Fl and Mi had to sweat it out.  They moved against the rules.  They are, however, going to get to be sat.

by cardboard 1 2008-05-06 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead!

I think it is fair the Fl and Mi had to sweat it out.  They moved against the rules.  They are, however, going to get to be sat.

by cardboard 1 2008-05-06 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead!

I think it is fair the Fl and Mi had to sweat it out.  They moved against the rules.  They are, however, going to get to be sat.

by cardboard 1 2008-05-06 08:56PM | 0 recs
It's over...

when Hillary Clinton says it's over.

by JimR 2008-05-07 04:29AM | 0 recs
Re: It's over...

Yes. And I think she'll say it's over when enough superdelegates have committed to Obama to make it impossible for her to win. Which is exactly what she should do--keep playing until the game is officially called. The ball is in the supers' court, now. Er, still. But now they have very little reason to remain undecided, IMO.

by kydoc 2008-05-07 10:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Yea there seems to be movement to end it.....I really hope he considers asking her to be the VP..

by NCDEM29 2008-05-06 08:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I think her skills can be used better elsewhere, but he should ask her, anyway. I think Selibus or someone more truly admired by conservatives would be ideal.

by ragekage 2008-05-06 09:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Wes Clark

by hootie4170 2008-05-06 10:01PM | 0 recs
She's canceled all her morning talk show aptmts.

She will no longer have any path to the pledged delegate advantage.

She will no longer have the popular vote even with MI and FL and no chance of catching up.

She's broke, and no big money will be forthcoming.

Don't know whether it's the next few days, or a couple of weeks, but it's over. She probably stays in a bit longer if she wins Indiana by a few votes than if she loses by a few, but maybe not. The talks  have begun.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-06 08:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Per CNN with 95% of IN

Hillary is still holding on to a 2% lead by 17,000 some odd votes.  I smell something bad morphing over from IL and Gary, IN.

by mcctx 2008-05-06 08:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

What do you base this smell on?

by mefck 2008-05-06 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Chicago political history.  Let`s see - the 1968 Dem convention in Chicago; Daley style politics; Tony Rezko influence; Al Capon.  I could go on and on.

by mcctx 2008-05-06 09:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Like I've said, the only demonstrable case of voter fraud occurred in Harlem, where precincts under Charlie Rangel's control went 100% for Hillary Clinton.

Absurd.

When your campaign is capable of that, you think that they all are.  Not so, grasshopper.

by Mostly 2008-05-06 10:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I would tend to believe the Harlem districts were simply human error, without malicious intent.  If you want to screw your opponent, you don't give them 0 votes, it's kind of obvious.

by Skaje 2008-05-07 02:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

This happened in over 80 precincts.  All registering zero votes for Obama - yet the reverse was never the case.

Anyway, election fraud doesn't work like you think it does - you can't just pick any number you want.  You have to either toss ballots out or screw with the machines so that they don't register when the lever is pulled for a candidate, or something like that.

by Mostly 2008-05-07 01:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Have you ever driven close to Gary, IN? The stench is powerful from miles away...

by hopeful 2008-05-07 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

It's a 0.4% lead, but you can't show that in whole numbers unless you put it at 50 to 50. The media doesn't like draws.

by grass 2008-05-06 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

1) Obama may yet win Indiana

2)  It's over.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-06 08:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Alegre, you've been a solid supporter of your candidate. I hope your next position of employment will be more fruitful.

by upstate girl 2008-05-06 08:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Yikes. Guess they didn't like that statement.

by ragekage 2008-05-06 09:14PM | 0 recs
Wow.

Exactly what part of that post was trollish?

by MILiberal 2008-05-06 09:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Wow.

It is well known that Alegre is a superstar volunteer and working mom. This was an extremely tacky comment.

by Pacific John 2008-05-06 09:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Wow.

WOW and WOWOWOW  this is ridiculous

i guarantee the rec list will STILL be dominated by her for days after the concession.

ITS OVER!!!

USA USA USA USA !!!!!

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-06 10:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

"For example, our March 13 poll showed Hillary trailing by 8 points, while our latest poll gave Hillary a 5 point lead."

I guess she means her campaigns internal polling, because other than two polls everybody else gave her winning that state comfortably by 6-10 points.

by grass 2008-05-06 08:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Alegre, you're a trooper and I commend you for that.  No matter what happens moving forward, I hope you know that you're a wonderful asset to the Clinton campaign and the democratic party.

by reggie23 2008-05-06 08:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I agree with this comment 150%.  Alegre is a passionate, committed supporter in a world of generally unengaged Cheeto-eating sloths.

She is a Patriot in the best sense.

God bless you, Alegre.  

by LarsThorwald 2008-05-06 09:00PM | 0 recs
mmmmm....cheeetooos....

by clad 2008-05-06 09:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

We all have to face the music now.  This race is over and the Democratic nominee has been determined.  Just because our candidate did not prevail is no reason for us not to support our Democratic team in November.

Godspeed, Senator Clinton.  You ran a hell of a race.

by baghdadjoe 2008-05-06 08:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!
Ah yes. Another male calling for a woman to exit the race. Oh, but a great DNC leader has already said that we don't need White or Hispanic voters to win the general election. Sorry to have to remind you that Clinton has never said she does not want or welcome Blacks to her campaign. But a whole lot of Obama supporters have said the opposite with regards to Whites and Hispanics. Obama can not survive with that narrative. His so called supporters need to stop forwarding it if they are to have even the slightest chance of winning in November. Full transcript
by Jeter 2008-05-06 09:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Ah yes. Another male calling for a woman to exit the race.

Pff. I think the fact that Senator Clinton is trailing by every conceivable metric has more to do with people asking her to concede than her sex.

Oh, but a great DNC leader has already said that we don't need White or Hispanic voters to win the general election.

Faux-outrage is harder to muster when you read things carefully. You're leaving out the all-important qualifier "just".

But a whole lot of Obama supporters have said the opposite with regards to Whites and Hispanics.

And who the hell are these people? I've never heard anyone make such a ludicrous claim.

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-06 09:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Yes, Joe. Clearly as a male you have no right to an opinion on this.

The whole "Obama supporters have said the opposite with regards to Whites and Hispanics" thing is too absurd to comment on.

by Mandoliniment 2008-05-07 10:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

My friends flew to DC from San Diego to see Hillary tomorrow at the Generations of Women conference with Chelsea and her mom.

I believe she is not cancelling this and I will be anxious to hear what she says at that event.

Bless you Alegre and all of us that have worked our damn butts off for 15 months for her.....

I've still got my airline tickets to Oregon....we'll see.....

by nikkid 2008-05-06 09:09PM | 0 recs
It's over Alegre

Please join us in the fall campaign. We have a common enemy to defeat. I welcome your feisty pen in the battle.

I'll bring the Guinness Extra Stout.

Peace.

BB

by Bleeding Blue 2008-05-06 09:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

yuck.  don't you get tired alegre??

by bluedavid 2008-05-06 09:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

The first word of your post describes you perfectly.
by optimisticBoy 2008-05-06 10:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Alegre: Leave our party alone!!!

by Maize and Blue State 2008-05-06 09:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I'll go where ever she goes.  Count me in.

by JoeySky18 2008-05-06 09:22PM | 0 recs
Alegre, thanks for all your hard work...

I'm an Obama supporter, and have often screamed at my computer monitor while reading some of your posts. :-O  

But I restrained myself as best I could from letting that anger hit the keyboard because I know that:
a.) if everyone was involved and active and vocal as you, this country would be a better place
b.) if all us Dems/liberals/progressives were as vocal as you, this country would be a MUCH better place.

My honest assessment is that the race is almost over, and that Clinton will drop out with her head held high after winning WV and KY by huge margins. But I'm not here to debate whether or not the race is over... i'm here to thank you for all the work you've put into Hillary's campaign to date, and really hope that if I'm right and Obama is the nominee you'll consider supporting him as well. He's made some mistakes (as has your candidate), and his supporters have been at times arrogant, rude, and downright mean. But he's still a good candidate for President. We disagree on whether or not he's the best candidate left, but I'm sure we can agree that he's better than the presumptive alternative.

I'm not asking for your support now. I'm not calling you a turncoat if you don't support him. I'm just saying thanks for your work... and I think we'll all be better off if you can continue it regardless of the eventual nominee...

by BrioHondo 2008-05-06 09:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!
Alegre,
you are a true dem, unlike most posting on this diary.  we don't follow the herd and truly want what is best for this country, not what is cool.
i can't tell you how many times i ask an obama supporter why they support obama.  almost ever single time i get a blank stare at first and then followed with an, "well, he is for change."  that is the best i can get.  no policy references, no nothing.  how sad?  this is the greatest country on the planet and we can't say why we are voting for this guy?  scary.  course this is what happened with bush voters in 2004 so now it is dems turn to vote for a guy they know almost nothing about.  
i won't vote mccain but as of right now, i wont vote for obama either.  he has done nothing to prove to me that he is right for the job he is asking me to hire him for.  he has a lot to do to bring me over to his side and not sure it is possible.
by Scope441 2008-05-06 09:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

That's okay. Are there any issues you want to talk about? I'd be happy to talk about Obama's positions and address any concerns you might have.

by jaiwithani 2008-05-06 10:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Poor Scope, I have heard this canard often. Obama supporters don't know why they support him. Here is why I (and most democrats) support Obama:

He can take on McCain on the unnecessary war in Iraq (Hillary can't because she voted FOR the AUMF for Iraq (another Kerry nominee type who can't fight McCain on the war because of a pandering vote).

He can take on Nafta - Clinton was for it before she was against it.

He can implement a health care plan - Clinton already blew it once.

On the big issues that democrats win on - Clinton cannot win becuase she has inherent weaknesses - the economy and the unnecessary war.

She may claim to be a fighter - but she won't do as well in debates or in the general election because of these past mistakes.

Finally, she has run a very poor campaign. With Penn and others screwing things up she started with all the advantages (including my vote) and has simply been disorganized, pandering and disappointing. Obama has run a more organized, more on message and cleaner campaign. Mathematically, she has been eliminated - the only question is whether she can exit gracefully and whether her supporters will help defeat a diasterous McCain presidency or not.

by correctnotright 2008-05-07 09:01AM | 0 recs
It is time to heal

Allegre, Susan Hu.  Please see the writing on the wall.  As a former Edwards fighter, I dropped off the web for awhile...keeping quiet.  I had serious reservations about the Clinton years...WalMArt....blah....if not for the internet revolution???

But I kept quiet because Obama looked like a rookie.  How can we say that now.  Hill has had all of the institutional advantages, and yet...Barrack looks STRONG.

We Obama supporters not only welcome you...but we NEED you.  John McQeasy the flip flopper has been acting like a breadbasket progressive in the heartland.  We know this is false.  We need Hillary to win some of this support to win the election.  You know...the low information white voter?  Or as Barrack says...we may be different, but.

by msnstd 2008-05-06 09:46PM | 0 recs
"Let's keep making history together."

Dear John,

Tonight's victory in Indiana was close, and a margin that narrow means just one thing: every single thing you did to help us win in Indiana helped make the difference.

Every call you made, every friend you spoke to about our campaign, every dollar you contributed made tonight's victory possible. And I couldn't be more thankful for your hard work.

Every time we've celebrated a victory, we've celebrated it together. And tonight is no exception. This victory is your victory, this campaign is your campaign, and your support has been the difference between winning and losing.

Thank you so much for making this campaign possible. Let's keep making history together.

Sincerely,

Hillary
Hillary Rodham Clinton

by Pacific John 2008-05-06 09:48PM | 0 recs
Alegre


   has energy and passion, two things that the Democratic nominee will need on his/her team this fall.

  I disagree with her on virtually everything, at times we've been downright hostile to each other. But she is a hell of a candidate promoter...those ripping her in this thread need to lay off.

  Hillary Clinton has lost this fight. She may know it, she may not know it...but she's lost the fight. When she realizes that, she'll do the right thing.

  We can't push her out the door. Hillary was told since election night 2004, that she was the next President of the United States. It's tough to let that go. She'll figure it out...but lay off the Clintonites...it will be tough enough when she does.

  She has every right to stay in the race til the last primary. Then, and only then, will I start my calls for her to leave. B/c at that point, she'll only be hurting the party.

  Lay off Clinton and lay off Alegre. Alegre's passion is admirable and her loyalty is commendable...we'll need both in the fall campaign.

by southernman 2008-05-06 09:48PM | 0 recs
Hillary is the greatest to have won in spite

of Obama's shenanigans.  I know what they did in Texas and I can believe that they were determined to steal Indiana.  Thank goodness that they underestimated the number of fake voters they needed.  Interesting isn't it how the precincts came in.  I hope they can PROVE fraud that I know went on.

Thank you for the excellent diary.  You, too, are the greatest.

by macmcd 2008-05-06 09:49PM | 0 recs
So, since you admit there is no proof...

how exactly do you "know" anything?  Get a grip.

Your post was either snark or an inelegant paraphrasing of Lewis Carroll's immortal line "Sentence first, verdict afterwards!"

by Elsinora 2008-05-06 10:03PM | 0 recs
you don't know shit

as a texan i take serious offense to your allegations.

put up or shut up.

by annatopia 2008-05-07 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Alegre,

1)  Congrats to Clinton on her win in Indiana tonight and congrats to you personally for your role in her success.

2)  It's OK to show a little genuine emotion about tonight's results. I have to assume you're a bit disappointed by the outcome, just like many of us Obama supporters were after PA or OH. People would be less critical of your diary if you let your guard down once in a while.

3)  The level of gloating here tonight is roughly on par with the taunting after Obama's PA loss, only in reverse. I remember that after PA, a lot of Obama supporters wanted to "talk about the issues and the primaries coming up", but there were plenty of comments from Clinton backers that night about elitism, Wright, his inability to connect with "real" democrats and the unwillingness of us kool-aid drinkers to see the writing on the wall.

4)  You can't criticize people for "insinuating garbage" in a diary where you accuse Obama of "stealing" votes absent any proof. Not saying you're wrong about Gary, but it's premature to be leveling accusations against Obama.

by jdusek 2008-05-06 09:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

hear hear. Alegre, I know it stings, and I'm sorry, but it's time to put your talents and name recognition to work for the party as a whole. Get on board, girl.

by Kordo 2008-05-06 10:32PM | 0 recs
The long primary has introduced all of us to

the idea that every state matters.  Rural, Southern, Independent Westerners, dis-advantaged white folks have been ignored for decades by our party.  Hillary has captured the attention of many of these voters.  They now realize that Bush hasn't been good to them...while we ignored them for decades.  This was not Hills strategy, but the consequence of a prolongued Dem primary has helped us...only if we quit fighting now.  Hillary must quit the dirt throwin.  If she wants to re-plenish her coffers...fine.  But, Barrack Obama is not a black candidate and we must get ready for the bigger fight ahead.  In some ways we have already won the election in perception terms.  But John McQueasy is no populist.  And neither is Hillary.  Together, we are stronger.  It is time to stop the Obama bashing  

by msnstd 2008-05-06 09:55PM | 0 recs
Concession speech

So is the strike over now?

Can Obama supporters not get TR'd anymore

damn im happy

USA USA USA!!!

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-06 10:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Ding-dong...

Are you in agreement, do you think it ends tommorow morning?

I got plenty of koolaid left. its delicious  ;P

by GeorgeP922 2008-05-06 10:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin

Yet there she was, begging for money at the beginning to make sure she doesn't end 20 or 30 million in debt

by reggie44pride 2008-05-07 01:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNKSzmM44 gE&feature=related

by diranuk 2008-05-06 10:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I am 22 years old. I will never vote for Obama.

His supporters have just turned me off. He does not connect to me.

If he's the nominee, I will sit out the GE, and persuade as many folks to as possible to do the same.

Alegre, you are a rare, gem of a person. I salute your grit and your hard work.

by optimisticBoy 2008-05-06 10:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I'm voting for the unmentionable one.  Obama will never get my vote.

Besides, he doesn't need it.  He can always just make up another vote to make up for it.

by switching sides 2008-05-06 10:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

You are an idiot if you vote for McCain. At least write in Hillary's name if you want to make a statement. BUt to vote for McCain, you are validating repubican policies.

by Pravin 2008-05-06 11:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I said I will sit out the GE. I trust you can read.

About calling me an idiot, I think I won't dignify that with a response.

by optimisticBoy 2008-05-06 11:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Pravin wasn't replying to you. It was to switch blade or whatever.  Never called you an idiot.

by The Distillery 2008-05-07 12:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Heh, but you did respond, didn't you?

by zep93 2008-05-07 04:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

What kind of fucked-up signature is that?

by hania 2008-05-06 11:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Eh, I thought it was funny.  If only because it's so ridiculous.

by The Distillery 2008-05-07 12:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Then you are a selfish, selfish person to betray those that will suffer most by President McSame's policies and Supreme Court nominations because of your own pettiness and vindictiveness.  I hope your conscience will allow you to sleep at night, because history will not judge you and those that follow your path kindly.

by ThinkerT 2008-05-06 11:06PM | 0 recs
Don't try to preach to me.

Kindly save your big words for someone who can believe them.

by optimisticBoy 2008-05-06 11:16PM | 0 recs
Then I won't preach, I will hope

I will hope that you don't know any women who will suffer from the potential loss of Roe v. Wade.

I will hope that you don't know anyone in the service that will be injured or wounded in the continued presence in Iraq and potential war with Iran.

I will hope that anyone close to you won't suffer from the economic policies that will continue to favor the rich at the expense of the poor and the middle class.

I will hope that anyone you know won't suffer an illness or injury that they can't pay for with the continuation of the failed health care system.

Above all, I will hope that you are unable to convince many to follow your path so that none of us have to suffer through the things mentioned above.

by ThinkerT 2008-05-06 11:28PM | 0 recs
Where was your hope before?

You hope for women, but just see how you have treated a woman. The media, your candidate's supporters and the Republicans ganging up against a woman. And then you say you hope for women.

You hope that I don't know of anybody in uniform. My candidate has stood up for people in uniform - for firemen and national reserve guards and the military. Yet you deride her, you call her a liar, and expect me to believe you.

You hope that people won't suffer from the economic policies that will continue to favor the rich at the expense of the poor and the middle class. Yet when my candidate called for action against foreclosures and interest rate freezes, for gas-tax aid, you call her phony and label her as an opportunist. And then you expect me to believe in your sense of hope?

You speak about health care. About how this is too important. Yet, you tell people the false message that my candidate will force them to pay for health insurance. And then you say you hope.

Please don't ask me to you believe in your sense of hope. I wish I could, but I simply can't at the moment.

thanks

by optimisticBoy 2008-05-06 11:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Where was your hope before?

None of this explains how McCain would be better than Obama?  If you care about any of those issues you just brought up, there really is no excuse for sitting out of the election.  Are you really that childish that your candidate is all that matters?  It sounds like you are just throwing a tempter-tantrum.  

If you are too stupid to realize that Obama's policies are basically exactly the same as Clinton's, and light-years away from McCain's... well then I just don't think there is much that can be done for you.  Enjoy being "low-information" for the rest of your life.

by belicheat 2008-05-07 06:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Where was your hope before?

Kindly desist from twisting my comment into a mangled piece of garb.

If Obama's policies are so much like that of Hillary's, then how is it that only a few days ago, your candidate called many of Clinton's positions Bush-like? It sounds like Hillary's policies are suddenly contrasting with those of McCain.

As for painting me as 'low-information' and 'stupid', please refrain from making such amateurish assumptions and such crass comments. Clinton was for universal health-care, while Obama's is not. I don't see how those two policies are 'exactly the  same'.

by optimisticBoy 2008-05-07 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Where was your hope before?

RE: "if Obama's policies are so much like Hillary's..."

It's all relative, and must be viewed in context. I'll give a non-political example. When contrasting a lion and a tiger, you draw attention to differences: stripes on one, a mane on males of the other, etc. If the context changes, and suddenly you're comparing both to a slug, the relative similarity of the lion and tiger become more visible.

Contrasting Obama and Clinton, we've focused on their differences exclusively--in that context the differences seem stark. But stand the two of them next to McCain...

And of course belicheat was being jerkish with that "enjoy being low information" and "if you're too stupid" stuff. And someone else said "you're an idiot if..." Looks to me like they've already written you off, and are more interested in trying to belittle you than talk to you. If that's the type of interaction you've been having with Obama supporters, no wonder you're turned off. I would be, too.

We're not all like that, I swear. I don't even think the ones insulting you are always like that. Like you, they are passionate about what they believe in. They're very frustrated that anyone could claim to support progressive values and at the same time actively or passively support McCain over the democratic nominee. I feel that way, too, actually. We all go overboard. Alegre and others made baseless accusations about election fraud a few hours ago. She's very passionate about what she believes in, and sometimes goes too far. We're all like that here, it seems.

You're gonna do whatever you want in November, obviously. When you vote, I hope you consider things like supreme court nominations, the fact that McCain can't keep Sunnis and Shias straight, McCain's embrace of the same right-wing extremists he once referred to as "agents of intolerance," his misogynistic outbursts (towards his wife, for one), and a host of other evidence that I'm sure we'll be going over in endless detail between now and then. I hope the facts about McCain outweigh the fact that Obama supporters have been jerks to you.

by kydoc 2008-05-07 11:14AM | 0 recs
Goodbye, 5th Column.

by RP McMurphy 2008-05-06 11:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead, to delusion land

Clinton canceled her morning appearances tomorrow.

She is out of money.

Out of time.

It's over.

I like your enthusiasm, but it's time to channel it to something productive.

by reggie44pride 2008-05-06 11:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead, to delusion land

You are so gracious, so thoughtfully gentle.

Thank you for asking me to channel my energies on something productive. I won't be sparing any on your candidate.

by optimisticBoy 2008-05-06 11:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead, to delusion land

He is not "my" candidate either.

I do not prefer Obama to Clinton.  I am just a realist about these things.

by reggie44pride 2008-05-06 11:51PM | 0 recs
Reconciliation Begins Tonight

The Democratic Primary is over and Barack Obama is the nominee. That is the hard truth that we must all face from this day forward. There are no options left that Hillary Clinton can win the nomination.

Starting tonight--right now--we must all come together and rally around the flag to elect President Obama for the good of our nation. Any further fighting and bickering will only continue to increase John McCain's slim chances. Our next president can and will move our country in the right direction, and the person to do that is Barack Obama.

We come together tonight.

by Pittsburgh Soldier 2008-05-06 11:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

It seems to me that if you want to fire up Clinton supporters to continue the fight, all you'd really have to do is point to some of these juvenile comments.  Unity talk, indeed.

by Steve M 2008-05-06 11:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Some republicans who will only vote for the Democratic party if Hillary is the nominee, won't vote for Obama in November.

Those Republicans don't care about the horror that is the Iraq we created. Some people here have sworn they rather have McCain than Obama. I take them at their word.

They have created an Obama in their own minds who is essentially so evil they would vote for McCain.

Luckily, more Americans want the war to end than to continue. Most Americans won't vote McCain.

by catilinus 2008-05-07 12:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Your post doesn't make any sense to me.  I guess you're saying that anyone who doesn't vote for Obama, therefore becomes a Republican and isn't worth caring about?  That's an unhelpful argument.

by Steve M 2008-05-07 06:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

It's more simple than that: either you vote the issues or you don't.

There are a lot of cultists on both sides.  Thankfully, where John McCain stands is not where most people are.

by Mostly 2008-05-07 01:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I agree with you. "Some republicans who will only vote..." Sorry, if I wasn't clear about the "some" part of it. My point was: voting for McCain makes a person a republican.

Most of my family didn't vote for Obama, and they're not republicans. If I hear they support McCain, then I will have to think they're republicans-or redefine the meaning of the word.

by catilinus 2008-05-07 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

The internet is a rough place.  Mydd in particular has a lax banning system that allows trolls to take hold and poison the discussion.  I don't take anything said on this website personally.  People who call themselves Clinton supporters have said some pretty nasty things to me, doesn't change my opinion of the Senator herself.  Heck I'd still vote for, donate to, and campaign for her if she was the nominee against McCain.

You'll notice a lot of Obama supporters have toned it down tonight.  Check the dailykos rec list, even that crowd is finding it in themselves to make peace with Clinton supporters after these trying weeks, with the primaries finally winding down.

by Skaje 2008-05-07 03:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I respect Hillary and I respect Alegre.  No one, no one has the right to ask Hillary to drop out, especially those who want her to drop out, but not right after IN and NC because they didn't want their candidate to then immediately get largely defeated in WV and KY and because they want Hillary to drop out after OR so that their candidate can have the glory of an Oregon victory. Their reasoning is laughable. If Obama is strong enough, he should be able to take the defeats in WV and KY and try to WIN people over in the general election.  His supporters should work hard to help him to do so.  The last thing his supporters should be thinking about at this moment is to find a perfect time for Hillary to drop out so Obama can have his halo intact. It is weak and pathetic.

by observer11 2008-05-06 11:42PM | 0 recs
How about on to WV & KY with a new attitude?

I would like to see Hillary and Alegre see this out until the last state has voted, but to limit their campaigning to the positives of Hillary and negatives of McCain.

I think it will be better for Hillary, better for Obama, and better for the country if Hillary finishes the last few states, talks forcefully about the real issues, her ideas about solving them, her abilities to implement those ideas, and the utter disaster that a McCain presidency would wreak on this country.

by obsessed 2008-05-07 12:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

The problem is that if Obama gets coronated publicly as nominee, the spin will be "Why is he so disliked that even though he's winning, he gets repudiated by two states?"

Kind of like if Ron Paul won Pennsylvania.  The Oregon idea has flaws but it's legit.  

by BPK80 2008-05-07 12:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I am sorry, but I don't get this reasoning.  It is only about putting up a show for the public, about not losing face, and about hitting a high note while his opponent quits, nothing more.  You think his legitimacy will be less questioned/attacked if Hillary quits after Oregon?  To me, that some people would even think about this kind of thing is strange.  I think it symbolizes the all (or at least mostly) show no substance of Mr. Obama's campaign.  It is pathetic indeed.  To me, putting oneself together after astounding defeats and still being able to motivate and inspire people is the true winner.  It is the kind of strength I want to see in my president.  I see that in Hillary.  It is precisely why I respect and admire her even more especially after she overcame the string of defeats and still came out a winner.

by observer11 2008-05-07 01:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I wasn't advocting the idea so much as I was questioning your outright dismissal of it.  

"Worth considering" and "worth doing" are two separate things.  I'd put this idea in the former category.  

by BPK80 2008-05-07 01:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I was justing writing how I felt about the idea in general.  My comment was not directed towards you. Good night!

by observer11 2008-05-07 01:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!
To Liberal Monk:
You have to troll rate what I wrote?!  You have to be kidding me. How pathetic!
by observer11 2008-05-07 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Thanks for an upbeat diary. I notice that you have become a target for the same kind of baseless vitriol for supporting Hillary that she is subject to for simply being Hillary. Thanks for standing tall like she does. I gave another $50 tonight and will go to Oregon to campaign for her. I will fight the good fight as long as it takes.

by portia9 2008-05-07 01:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Yes.  I am in the middle of final exams, but I will too make phone calls for her to Oregon!

by observer11 2008-05-07 01:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Thank you for the contribution to Obama's GE fund.

by reggie44pride 2008-05-07 01:16AM | 0 recs
Alegre, I recommend the 123 club on pleasnt street

Please go there.  Relax, take a breath, and have the best fuckin time of your life!!!

Get over it.  It is over.

PS WV is way cooler than you might know.  I know.  I lived there for 6 years.  These are solid recs.

by msnstd 2008-05-07 01:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Alegre, I recommend the 123 club on pleasnt st

Hey bro, be cool.

It aint over till the lady sings, so sit tight, be gracious.

You do your thing, let her do her thing.

What we don't need is friendly fire obliterating our own party.

Right now we've got to focus on beating McCain and getting as many Dems elected to the House and Senate as possible.

by eliot 2008-05-07 04:05AM | 0 recs
Theresa inPA!!! Obama weak in Appalachia!!!

by msnstd 2008-05-07 01:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

"Guys Hillary's clearly in this thing to win."

And it clearly is not going to happen.

Obama 2008

by hebi 2008-05-07 02:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!
I'm supporting Obama, but I appreciate your zeal in supporting Hillary - she and President Clinton have done so much for this country.
I agree that May 20th might be a good time for Clinton to bow out (on a high note, I would add), but that's just me. I don't see any harm in finishing the primaries, either.
In the end we are all fighting for the same cause - something I think we should keep in mind. I don't see a realistic path to the nomination for her, but if Hillary is the nominee I will do everything I can for her.
by GrahamCracker 2008-05-07 03:06AM | 0 recs
Alegre. Peace.

I appreciate your loyalty and tenaciousness in supporting Sen. Clinton. I don't expect you to make a complete 180 degree turn overnight, but I do hope that eventually you'll be able to turn your talents to defeating John McCain and electing Sen. Obama as our next President.

I know it's a tough day, and it's difficult sometimes to put the flamethrowers away after they've been drawn, but I do think today you can take much comfort in the fact you've done all you could possibly have done. Peace.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-07 03:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

It's a beautiful state.  Enjoy the mountains, take a hike, contemplate nature.  

by howardpark 2008-05-07 04:08AM | 0 recs
the fat lady is warming up

i reccomend a double espresso and don those reading glasses (not the rose colored ones)to alegre's fans before hitting the morning papers.

(boy are these comments chock full of sour grapes)

by citizendave 2008-05-07 04:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Alegre wrote:

"Wow. Just wow. I feel as if I stepped into a buzz saw here and I thought I was among friends on this site. I hope you boys are happy with how you've behaved in this thread tonight. Rather than talk about how the primaries went today and maybe discuss the primaries coming up, many of you are gloating, rude, abusive, and insinuating garbage that I thought I'd left behind at dKos.

Your canidate must be so proud of you guys tonight.

To the Hillary supporters out there who've wandered in now that this is on the Rec List, all I can say is if you're as disgusted as I am at this childish behavior, donate to Hillary and donate BIG."

Alegre, I've seen plenty of gloating, rude, abusive, and insinuating garbage directed at Obama here from Clinton supporters, including you, so spare me the manufactured case o' the vapors. There are several Hillary supporters I feel genuine empathy for like sricki and zcflint05, to name a few, but the Hillary supporters who used rightwing tactics and sources (the most unforgivable act of all) to try to destroy Obama have a long path to forgiveness with me.  

Sorry, I read one too many "send it to Hannity!" comments from alleged Democrats across the blogosphere for me to turn the cheek for quite some time.

by Rumproast 2008-05-07 04:40AM | 0 recs
Hillary Supporters Rock

It's another beautiful day in sunny Florida! Keep up the faith and the donations folks! I just tipped Hillary for her win in Indiana. Obama still cannot seal the deal even with all his money and the MSM carrying him on their shoulders. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. Go Hillary!

Contribution Details
Date:     May 07, 2008 8:51 AM EDT
Amount: $100.00

by grlpatriot 2008-05-07 05:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Supporters Rock

I hope that you also have $110 million in the bank like Hillary.  She just loaned her campaign another  $6 million. Your contribution isn't going towards winning any more states, or the nomination.  It's going towards paying off her campaign debt, a.k.a the loan to herself.  

Now, maybe you don't need that $100 more than Hillary, but I doubt that.  It's one thing if she were using that money to continue, but she isn't.  She is just taking money from good Americans, and putting it right into her bank account.  Does she really need that $6 million back?  Is there a difference between having $104 million and $110 million dollars?  Maybe you have to fly on a crappier personal jet?

by belicheat 2008-05-07 06:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Supporters Rock

The deal will be sealed May 20 in Oregon.  

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-07 06:31AM | 0 recs
My daddy warned me...

about throwing good money after bad.  Not a good idea.

by pbonefullgrown 2008-05-07 09:20AM | 0 recs
The only thing the msm has been carrying

is the idea that Hillary has a rational path toward the nomination, which hasn't been true for a very long time.  Last night, finally, that narrative has changed once and for all.  Obama has now won the nomination.

Denial will get you no where.  It's pretty ridiculous to claim an actual win when Hillary was only ahead by 15,000 votes (1.5%)in India,  I would call that an insignificant distinction (or a tie).

by Tenafly Viper 2008-05-07 12:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Talk about being rude, Alegre.

You continue to just ignore what happens, because you can't stand the truth that Obama will be the nominee. I don't say that to brag about winning, I say that because what you suggest, that Clinton stays in until the convention, is insulting to your fellow Democrats.

If you have any respect for your fellow Dems, you would realize that for what Obama has accomplished, he deserves to have a fair shot at winning the presidency. No, I'm not saying he deserves the nod and should be crowned, I'm saying he already won, and urging people to vote against him and raise money to fight him is just saying you don't care about beating John McCain, you only care about seeing your gal in the White House.

Stop it, please. If you want Hillary to stay in, fine. But stop it with this whole fighting meme, as if Hillary is the only acceptable candidate left and she needs to destroy Obama for the good of the country and the Democratic party.

by BlueGAinDC 2008-05-07 05:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Seriously, your comments are an affront to the message of hope and unity that your candidate talks about.

You talk about respect. Sorry, but for these comments, I can spare you none.

by optimisticBoy 2008-05-07 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

You're a case in point of what the poster was writing about.  The longer she stays in, the harder it is for Obama to win.  Why?  Because her only path to the nomination is THROUGH him.  He has to be destroyed.

A lot of Hillary Clinton supporters have internalized the logic of her campaign and started viewing Barack Obama as unacceptable.  After all, he has to be for her to be the legitimate nominee.  And the longer she stays in, the more people fall into that lazy way of thinking.

It takes a strong mind to be able to hold both thoughts in your head: yes, I want Hillary Clinton to win, yes I know it means Obama has to implode somehow, and yet I'll support Obama.  Most people can't do that - at least they can't for very long.  Evidently you can't.

And I can't blame you - there have been times that I've positively loathed Hillary Clinton, and I have it easy.  She doesn't need to become totally unacceptable for my guy to win.  I can't imagine the pressure Clinton supporters must be under to hate Barack Obama.

by Mostly 2008-05-07 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Alegre, ignore them.  Like children that have been on the losing side for so long, how else do they act when they finally get a win.

They are reasserting why BO doesn't have a chance to win.  Let them continue.

by LindaSFNM 2008-05-07 05:34AM | 0 recs
Good Behavior

It feels horrible to be on the losing side of the electoral equation.  God knows as Democrats we all get that.  We've ALL been there.  Why so many of Obama's supporters want to rub salt in wounds is beyond me.  If I thought it represented the candidate I would have switched long ago.  Stop it folks, really, gloating is vile and comes around to bite you in the ass.

I don't think Clinton has any real shot at the nomination at this point but the decision to stay or go is hers.  I am surprised at the results in Indiana because I thought she did a spectacular job with her campaign there.  

I just wanted to give a heads up to all of those bloggers who maintain civility regardless of what side they are on and regardless of how their candidate does.  They make being here both instructive and fun.  More power to you.

by mady 2008-05-07 06:16AM | 0 recs
Don't Take ANYTHING Personally.

Folks,

Because of Hillary we have a battle-tested, vetted, well-financed, and complete presumptive nominee.

I, as an ardent and strong Obama supporter, would LOVE to shake Hillary's hand, shine her shoes, and bake her her favorite pie...anything to demonstrate my gratitude for her contributions to the campaign & to America.  

Let's let the past be the past, and not let prior hurts (by EITHER side) dictate how we move forward.  BOTH our candidates deserve better, and McCain must be stopped.

A woman's right to choose is threatened by him.  The economy is threatened, peace...all of it.

WE MUST become friends again, damn it.

by a gunslinger 2008-05-07 06:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Don't Take ANYTHING Personally.

That's a load of crap. The smearing of Obama you chalk up to some kind of "work hardening". Now you want to make nice with these folks. Go ahead it's your choice. Party unity means way too much too you. I'll take an honest republican over a dishonest democrat every time. This primary season made it very clear that there are lying win at all costs pieces of crap in both parties. And, there are still way too many voters stupid enough to believe the lies.

by KttG 2008-05-07 12:33PM | 0 recs
Full speed awahhhh?

Don't you mean full speed ahead to the nearest bank? Can she even afford to stay in this race? Isn't it time to coalesce  around the democratic nominee and work to heal any wounds created from this contentious battle?

Some of you  hrc supporters, some of whom would take such delight in calling Obama supporters, children, are acting like a bunch of 3rd grade sore frickin losers.

by april34fff 2008-05-07 06:51AM | 0 recs
Who does that help?

Seriously?  Do you think that comment is going to improve the chances of anyone beating McCain in November?

by Rorgg 2008-05-07 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Full speed awahhhh?

This qualifies as a personal attack on other posters in my book, besides being divisive and hurtful to your candidate.

by Scotch 2008-05-07 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Alegre,
Thanks for the post... I really was afraid to log on the blogs today because of what you described in your update.
The only way I would be able to move on in the eventuality that Hillary does not get the nomination would be if it doesn't feel like 2004 when DEAN was my man... I am NOT pulling the lever just for the sake of party loyalty...not again.

This gay , Hispanic, Chilean-American Scientist is a little disappointed today (and I am a glass half full kind of guy).

Muchas Gracias Alegre.

by el mito 2008-05-07 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

You shouldn't vote because of party loyalty. You should vote based on who you think will be best for the country based on the policies they support.

If you prefer McCain's policies, vote for him.  But I have a hard time understanding how someone who agrees with Clinton would want McCain appointing judges and setting the domestic and foreign policy agenda.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-07 09:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I never said I was going to vote for McCain.

I really want to feel  the rush I felt in 1989 when in Chile I voted buh bye to Pinochet. In 2004 it felt like a chore to vote for Kerry.

this is just straight from the heart, I Have dual nationality and have lived between two contrasting realities...and a divided country.

by el mito 2008-05-07 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

I'm Chilean too. And I remember the elation we felt the day Pinochet got his ass kicked out of office. But then he was 'given' a permanent seat in the senate, and immunity for his many crimes against our people. I thought the Clinton years were terrific for this country, but there is a great division that we need to heal, a division that was largely forged during the Clinton years (not blaming Bill, 99% of the animosity was created by the other side). And there is no way another Clinton administration would do anything other than perpetuate that same division. It's time to end the same divisive politics that have defined the last 20 years of american politics. I think Barack Obama is the only candidate in the race that can offer a substantive change from the sort of divide-and-conquer politics we've been witnessing for the last two decades.

You and I know both know how divided our homeland was after Pinochet left office. How, to this day, there are people who will defend the horrendous things that man did. And it wasn't until after his death that we could start to heal the tremendous scars that plagued us. Let's not allow the divisions in our own party to begin to scar, let's reach out and unite behind our candidate. Let's focus on our common ground so that we can defeat the forces of division and complacency in the fall. Now is the time to come together. I hope you'll join us, Compadre.

by Tatan 2008-05-07 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

cachai que tenís razón....but

I will have to simmer down for a while and start from zero evaluating the nominee (if it's Obama). I am pretty middle of the road politically, I have mellowed down with age ( I am 37). I would probably not go to the streets waiting to be sprayed by "el guanáco" like when I was 18, but I still want to WANT to vote for the candidate and not just do it out of habit of voting D.

by el mito 2008-05-07 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Te entiendo completamient, Compadre.

It's going to take some time. I happen to think he's a pretty fantastic candidate, and I'm very excited to have him be our nominee. I hope you'll look at him with open eyes and without any bitterness in your heart. I'm sure you'll find a reason to do what's right. You shouldn't have to just vote D. Try to not let the animosity of the past few months cloud your thoughts and actions though.

by Tatan 2008-05-07 11:46AM | 0 recs
Heath Shuler

Heath Shuler endorsed HRC today.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-05-07 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Alegre is going to be still posting pre Clinton diaries next January 20th when Obama is being sworn in as President.

Seriously - Alegre does not post substative diaries and has not for many moons.  

I wonder if we will ever see her again in the blogosphere after Clinton drops out?

And no I am not "piling on"  I have been pretty annoyed and salted by Alegre's cut and paste style, scorched earth, fake victimhood style for months now.

I say forgive but do not forget.  There are many many well meaning Clinton supporters out there. Then there those like Alegre who have used Republican frames and talking points to tear down a fellow Democrat in order to build up their own candidate (because they knew they had to drive his negatives up in order to have a chance at winning).

I cannot forgive or forget that.  Sorry.  Alegre and her ilk and her candidate and her candidate's husband are going to have to do a hell of alot to gain respect again.

by FinneganOregon 2008-05-07 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Word. I've been trying to articulate that as clearly as you for a while.

by Rationalisto 2008-05-07 10:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Thank you, Alegre.  I donated $100.  I'm not sucked down by yet another shop-worn reprise of the MyDD theme song -- "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" and I hope other Hillary supporters recognize last night for the piece of theater that it was, with the Mayor of Gary and Tim "She's cancelled her events!" Russert in a starring roles.  

On to West Virginia, Virginia!

by oh puhleeze 2008-05-07 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Enough with the sexist language, please.  People get confused - the next thing you know Obama supporters are accused of calling Hillary Clinton a witch.

by Mostly 2008-05-07 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

ANd she is!  What a great speech in West Virginia today.

by environmentally blue 2008-05-07 11:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Hlllary Clinton would be a better president.
She ran an awful campaign. The Hoosier twang was sad to watch. Obama does his own version at times.
I would vote for Hillary as an Independant , but Obama gets my support if she drops out.
She will stay in the race for a few more weeks to try to get some cash back before throwing in the towel.
You will hear no more attacks ads  from her, expect to see party unity memes until her eventual  official withdrawal.
Alegre is merely trying to pay the band after the party is over. It's perfectly acceptable.
I would love to see Obama/Clinton on the ticket for the GE, but i doubt it.
Alegre is starting to creep me out a bit, though.
The concern trolling has gotten a bit thick.

Jesse jackson Jr. is still a complete asshole.

by Zorkon 2008-05-07 11:14AM | 0 recs
In WV all she needs to do...

is convince them that she's white.  That shouldn't be too hard.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-05-07 11:50AM | 0 recs
And I've been rated a 0 for what,

pointing out that many people in WV are racist jerks and that will contribute to their vote?  All you have to do is look at how whites have voted in Appalachia this primary season, to know that's true.

I've actually been discriminated against there for my 4th generation polish Heritage, apparently that means I wasn't white enough.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-05-07 02:00PM | 0 recs
umm...about your update....

Alegre,  so your strategy is to write a diary without any factual information that also ignores the reality of the situation.  Then you get upset when your propaganda isn't affirmed.

It sounds to me like you're just playing devil's advocate.  Thanks for increasing the already vast divide between Obama and Clinton supporters.  Keep up the good work.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-05-07 12:30PM | 0 recs
Hillary 'I'm your Huckabee' Clinton

It's over.  Now stop scolding the Obama supporters for it.  There's no reason to stay in this battle except of course to recover her own personal loans.  

by jv 2008-05-07 01:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

Obama's performance in NC was half that of VA, even though the demographics were nearly identical. Most significant was a 40.3% decline in white male votes for him and a 27% decline in white female support vs. the Feb 5 VA primary results. Obama won VA with a 28% margin but it was only 14% in NC on May 6. This dramatic decline in support bodes ill for the general election.
by Nobama 2008-05-07 06:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Full Speed Ahead! Next Stop... West Virginia!

This commentary was somewhat disingenuous considering Obama captured the white youth vote and slightly edged Clinton in the white 30-45 vote. The problem he has faced fairly consistenly isn't the white vote overall but the older white vote. While I concede he will need to work on that by digging deeper into issues that affect them and communicate with them better, I do not believe we should look at the white vote as though it is monolithic and Obama is incapable of bridging the gap.

by cherrygarcia 2008-05-07 07:53PM | 0 recs

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