Hope For Hillary?

As those of you who read my posts know, I am a pretty fair-minded and logical guy...so consider the following within that context.

For those of you out there who are still hoping for the 30 points miracles in TX and OH I want you to consider how YOU would react if the Obama campaign (or any other rival campaign) put out a picture designed to make the uninformed public believe that Hillary was a radical feminist or a picture of her shredding a document?

You folks would rightfully be OUTRAGED that someone would take a picture reframe the context to passively suggest something that feeds into the smears the GOP uses against her.  AND what's more..I'd support your outrage.

Please have the intellectual integrity to admit that.  By shrugging this off as no big deal or simply as part of the "vetting" process is disingenuine.

This is a last ditch, scorched earth attempt to try to drum up as many points as possible.  And in so doing, she is threatening the integrity of the Clinton brand, her role in the democratic party, and her husband's role on the world stage.  Further, suggeswting that it is "her campaign, not her" is also a vapid statement.  Is she in charge of her campaign or not?

Folks, I have maintained a real even-handed attitude, even with the disprortionate amount of pro-HRC posting here (often to the detriment of logic-based debate), but to support these tactics is beyond the pale. Mailings with debate-worthy talking points are one thing, quasi racist or something that plays on social fears is quite another..and you all know it.

No end justifies these sorts of means.

I can only hope that she has reassured her big donors enough that she can pay off her 5 million dollar loan with these attacks and come the 5th of March she will apologize for this, and exit gracefully.  But in the meantime...she will pay for these tactics.  

The Obama voluteers are already a dedicated, if not obsessive bunch...to feed them this kind of red meat will only increase the level of work they pu out, AND will cause the MSM to paint her as even MORE desperate.

Tags: Barack Obama, desperation, Hillary Clinton, Ohio, texas (all tags)



Re: Hope For Hillary?


You have been very balanced in your approach to your support of your candidate, and I understand your frustration on this piece. Before I rush to judgement however, I would consider the source. Drudge hates Hillary. I will withhold my opinion until I hear from the campaign.

Question: Was this posted without the knowledge of the campaign? There are many folks on the fringes out there.

by LadyEagle 2008-02-25 05:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Hope For Hillary?

Lady Eagle,

Ok..I'll wait..but what if we all find out they know? What will you do?

by a gunslinger 2008-02-25 05:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Hope For Hillary?

I will be right up with there with you calling it for what it is. Despicable. I will also e-mail the Hillary campaign and express my displeasure at their actions, just like i did when Bill started to try to kill a mosquito with a machine gun in South Carolina.

Just so you know, I am a registered Independent, African-American female, who was once part of the so called dunking donut crowd and now a part of the so called latte drinking crowd (even though I don't drink coffee of any kind.) :)

I originally supported Joe Biden and then gravitated towards Hillary after doing much research. Keep the faith, there are still balanced folks out there.

by LadyEagle 2008-02-25 05:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Hope For Hillary?

Nobody know, we are all waiting for the denial:

UPDATE: A reporter asked on a conference call with Obama advisors Susan Rice, Richard Danzig, and Scott Gration how they knew the email came from Clinton.

"I'm afraid we're not terribly well informed about it," said Danzig, who said he'd "love to hear [a denial] from them."

Ben Smith - "Dressed" Politico 25 Feb 08

And there had better be one pretty soon as this is viral at the moment.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-25 05:33AM | 0 recs
Re: They dont' even care.

Sorry, I am at a loss to understand how this is the Obama campaigns doing?  Are you suggesting they put Drudge up to this?  Hardly seems likely.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-25 05:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Hope For Hillary?

Until I see concrete proof that this came from Clinton, I see this as jumping the gun by Obama's camp and slinging crap and hoping it sticks to Clinton without knowing anything.

by americanincanada 2008-02-25 06:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Hope For Hillary?

Well the Clinton camp has now responded but not denied the allegation.  What do you make of that?  They had better issue a strenuous and unequivocal denial soon or be prepared for some rough water.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-25 06:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Hope For Hillary?

The Obama campaign response is swift:

Plouffe said in a statement: "On the very day that Senator Clinton is giving a speech about restoring respect for America in the world, her campaign has engaged in the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election. This is part of a disturbing pattern that led her county chairs to resign in Iowa, her campaign chairman to resign in New Hampshire, and it's exactly the kind of divisive politics that turns away Americans of all parties and diminishes respect for America in the world," said Obama campaign manager David Plouffe.

Mike Allen - Obama slams smear photo Politico 25 Feb 08

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-25 05:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Hope For Hillary?

I really pray that this is not the work of the Hillary campaign, because if it is this is, the kind of vile stuff, that truly crosses the line-- the equivalent of the Obama campaign distributing videos of Dan Burton shootign a Watermelon to test Vince Foster's death, honestly there isn't much other than the Swift Boat ads that I can think of that sinks to this level.

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-25 05:09AM | 0 recs
Drudge report.

you should be angry with him.

by linc 2008-02-25 05:10AM | 0 recs
Re: This is a smear from the Obama campaign

You really better hope that this turns out not to be linked to the Clinton camp, otherwise I wouldn't be suprised to see HRC get Liberman'd in 2012.

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-25 05:15AM | 0 recs
Iowa, NH ring a bell?

Yeah I mean its not like memebers of her Iowa campaign sent out "Obama's a muslim" smear e-mails, or that the co-chair of her NH campaign asked if Obama ever dealt drugs, I mean its hard to see why the Obama camp could even suspect that someone affiliated with HRC (if not at the direction of the campaign) could spread this around.

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-25 05:18AM | 0 recs
Re: There's no evidence this story

Yes, it is a smear and a hit job.  But whose?  One can never trust Drudge, and he causes mischief at the first opportunity but the only thing he got wrong so far this year was the Huma allegations.  We'll see.  If there weren't all those forwarded 'Obama is a muslim' email incidents in the Clinton campaign in Iowa this would be easier to discount, don't you think?

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-25 05:19AM | 0 recs
They didn't deny it...

... or comment further, which is never a good sign.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/020 8/8667.html

I really hope the Clinton campaign was not responsible for this. And yes, if the Obama campaign circulated a picture of Clinton in a burkha I would hit the roof.

by Purplepeople 2008-02-25 05:43AM | 0 recs
To me this sounds

exactly like a Karl Rove tactic. Remember when he bugged his own office, then "innocently" insinuated that his opponent must have done it since he was the only one with anything to gain by it?

That's exactly what Obama is doing - it's obvious. All he had to do was feed it to Drudge and he took it from there - smiles on both their ugly faces.

Obama's campaign did this. They're playing Karl Rove. Heck - Rove's probably a secret campaign consultant. And they're counting on the Obamamedia's willingness to blame Clinton for it without evidence of any kind - their willingness to blame Clinton for EVERYTHING - and their complete refusal to expose Obama's dirty tactics.

This is your messiah, pod people! God help you.

by Firefly4625 2008-02-25 05:43AM | 0 recs
Re: To me this sounds

Then why aren't they denying it?

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-25 05:47AM | 0 recs
Re: To me this sounds

Firefly... that is one hell of an accusation, and one that is without substance.  Futher, your "messiah/pod people" comment is alos an unwelcome statement in a civil discourse.

I trust Drudge about as much as I trust Rove & Penn at this point, but until HRC disavows this tactic and in fact, calls it what it is, I'll be more prone (given the HRC history in the primaries so far, I'll think that there is something to the idea that HRC is behind this.

Now is not the time to fight...it is time to unite.

by a gunslinger 2008-02-25 05:51AM | 0 recs
Obama did it

Of course, you bots are completely blind to your own hilarious hypocrisy.

Accusing Obama = nasty attack, unsubstantiated, blah blah blah.

Accusing Clinton = valid, completely reasonable.

Not this time, bot. Go peddle your pathetic, putrid wares somewhere else.

by Firefly4625 2008-02-25 05:55AM | 0 recs
Just curious...

... if it turns out the Clinton campaign did circulate this, what will your reaction be?

I'm withholding judgment until more facts come out. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Drudge did this all on his own, just to lob a bomb into the Democratic campaign. But in that case I would have expected the Clinton campaign to issue a pretty vigorous denial. I'm hoping they are just holding off until they are sure noone on their staff od'd on stupid this morning....

by Purplepeople 2008-02-25 05:53AM | 0 recs
Re: To me this sounds
I don't believe Obama did this. This picture will disturb some Americans. It really could lose him votes, right before two crucial primaries. It wouldn't be worth it to him, just to make Hillary look like a negative, vicious person.
by sricki 2008-02-25 05:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Hope For Hillary?
Gunslinger, I am not yet willing to accept that this was Hillary's idea or that it was done with her consent. There are a lot of people working for her, and she can't supervise all of them at once. She's human, after all. And this is not the first time someone in her campaign has said/done something inappropriate. If I remember correctly, she's had other aids who have asserted that he's a Muslim, or who have commented on his past drug use. I am not going to jump to conclusions just yet because I think it would be rash to do so.

However, if I ultimately come to the conclusion that she was aware of this and allowed it, I will be profoundly disappointed. It was a dirty, dirty tactic, and this sort of behavior should never be condoned. I will write a strongly-worded email to the campaign. I will not, however, retract my support. I believe that she is the most competent candidate, and I believe she will be the most effective Commander in Chief. This sort of behavior is something to be harshly criticized, but it is not enough to make me decide that she is the inferior candidate overall.

I understand your outrage. You have a right to be upset, and you should be offended, as I am.

by sricki 2008-02-25 05:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Hope For Hillary?

Thank you.  That is the most reasonable posting I have read in weeks on this site!

Mojo for you!

by a gunslinger 2008-02-25 05:54AM | 0 recs
Obama did it himself

take it to the bank

by Firefly4625 2008-02-25 05:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama did it himself
I am a Clinton supporter, and I think that argument is absurd.
by sricki 2008-02-25 06:00AM | 0 recs
My point exactly!

That the "argument" that Clinton did it is EQUALLY ABSURD!

by Firefly4625 2008-02-25 06:06AM | 0 recs
So, to sum up

This would be such an absurd thing for the Clinton campaign to do you believe it is more likely the picture is a plant by Obama?

Again, I wonder what your reaction will be if it turns out that the Clinton campaign did do it? Will you aim this same level of outrage at her campaign?

by Purplepeople 2008-02-25 06:11AM | 0 recs
Not gonna happen

and you know it. Clinton did not do it - no upside for her. Huge upside for Obama. Do the math.

by Firefly4625 2008-02-25 06:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Not gonna happen
No, Obama is not responsible for this. The potential harm this could do to his campaign outweighs the potential benefits. It's possible that some undecideds will be so disgusted (if they think Hillary approved of this) that they'll go over to Obama, but there's no guarantee that they will. And a lot of Republicans are being encouraged (by other Republicans who hate the Clintons) to vote for Obama in the TX primary just to sabotage Hillary. I'm sure he is aware of this, and it could help him a lot. It could push him up a couple of percentage points, which might be enough to give him a victory.

But this picture will very likely turn a lot of people off, especially in TX. I don't mean to stereotype southern Republicans, but I am a southerner myself, and I know that a lot of them "won't take kindly" to a candidate who's "dressed up like a Muslim". They may become paranoid and decide that Clinton is the lesser of two evils. This could also frighten off some moderate Democrats. While it's true that no one likes negative ads and attacks, you can't deny that they work.

If Obama did this, he's not half as intelligent as I think he is. If nothing else, Obama is a very smart man. You can't say he's not. This would be a horrible gamble, and he's not ignorant enough to take it.

by sricki 2008-02-25 06:24AM | 0 recs
Wanna bet?

If he can get the media to stick this on Hillary, even by insinuation, he's accomplished two important things:

1. knocked Hillary out of the race
2. insulated himself against the repug attacks to come in the GE.

Pretty powerful "gamble," wouldn't you say?

Hillary did not do this - she's much smarter than Obama - just not cold and devious like him and his buddy Rove...

by Firefly4625 2008-02-25 06:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Wanna bet?
I think that's a pretty far-fetched accusation, when we have no proof. There are too many variables. There's a strong likelihood that this could do him more harm than good. Unless I see some sort of evidence which indicates that he might be responsible, I'm not going to make that assumption.
by sricki 2008-02-25 06:34AM | 0 recs
But you ARE

going to make the assumption that Clinton did it. Do you pod people have any intelligence or moral compass at all? Never mind - you answer that question every minute of every day. Sheesh!

by Firefly4625 2008-02-25 06:39AM | 0 recs
Re: But you ARE
No, I just said that I will not assume Hillary knew about this and approved of it. I think it's overly hasty to jump to conclusions either way.

You ask if I have any moral compass at all, yet you think it's acceptable to assert that this is Obama's doing, despite having absolutely no proof (and when common sense points to the contrary)? I support Hillary wholeheartedly, but my partisanship has not yet made me irrational.

by sricki 2008-02-25 06:45AM | 0 recs

... did you miss the fact that you are addressing a Clinton supporter here?

by Purplepeople 2008-02-25 06:46AM | 0 recs
I would

beg to differ on that point. "Supporters" like you nobody needs.

by Firefly4625 2008-02-25 06:48AM | 0 recs
Re: I would
There is nothing wrong with a Clinton supporter who rejects the idea that Obama did this until there's some sort of evidence. I am nothing if not fair. I will not make wild accusations until there is some basis for them.

In fact, I think Clinton supporters like you, who decide that Obama is such a villainous person that there's no explanation for this other than "HE DID IT!" make the rest of us -- who have some regard for logic, reason, and fair-mindedness -- look like alarmists.

by sricki 2008-02-25 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Not gonna happen

Now, before you start calling me a troll, let me say that I don't think the Obama camp did this.  But, I don't agree that the harm would outweigh the benefits.  If Obama had material he felt would hurt him, he would probably want to drop it himself as soon as he feels he has the nomination locked up, so that it would not have as much impact when the repbulicans drop it later.  That being said, it would be premature to do it now, before he locks up the nomination.  I actually believe it could have been anybody in any camp - and if it's a supporter or staffer, if the candidate find out who it is they should be fired. To expect a candidate to know every thing their volunteers or low-level staffers are doing is crazy, but if something like this comes to their attention, they should fire the people involved (or ask them to step down if they are volunteers), just as Hillary did in Iowa.

by AnnC 2008-02-25 06:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Not gonna happen
That is a perfectly reasonable thing to say. I really don't care what argument anyone makes, as long as it's halfway logical. This other person, who refuses to entertain the idea that it just might not be Obama's fault is being silly.
by sricki 2008-02-25 07:01AM | 0 recs

that's the messiah's favorite word lately, now isn't it. Nuff said...

by Firefly4625 2008-02-25 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: "silly"
So you think Obama has some sort of copyright or monopoly on the word "silly" and that, therefore, no one who supports Hillary should be allowed to use it? Okay...
by sricki 2008-02-25 07:08AM | 0 recs
Just so you know...

... I really hope you are right that the Clinton campaign is not behind this. However, the Clinton campaign has now issued a response saying that this is no big deal and that the Obama camp is being divisive just for bringing it up. Which does not bode well I think.

In the spirit of cooling the discussion, would you care to wager a frosty beverage on the ultimate responsibility for this? ;)

by Purplepeople 2008-02-25 06:27AM | 0 recs
There is Upside for HRC, Firefly...follow the $$

I beleive that this stuff may have more to do with making sure she can raise the 5 million she needs to pay herself back than it does "winning".
by a gunslinger 2008-02-25 06:51AM | 0 recs
How desperate of you

to even think crap as inane as that is gonna be bought by anyone. But, good try! LOL!

by Firefly4625 2008-02-25 07:03AM | 0 recs
Re: There is Upside for HRC,
I disagree with that comment, but I'm uprating it because it didn't deserve to be troll-rated in the first place.
by sricki 2008-02-25 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: There is Upside for HRC, follow the $$

Well..maybe I am wrong...but it IS a thought...I can find to logical reason for the campaignn to use suhc scorched-eath tactics.  It is either the most ill-advised "hail mary" ever thrown by a capign..or there must be a another reason.

I am not marrying myself to this... it is JUST a possibilty.

by a gunslinger 2008-02-25 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Hope For Hillary?

Well said.  But even if it is someone on her staff that is not really a 'get out of jail free' card.

Appearing on Hardball with Chris Matthews, Axelrod accused the Clinton campaign of giving a "wink and a nod" to negative tactics. He criticized Clinton's December 3 statement in which she signaled a more aggressive approach and called it the "fun part" of the campaign. Axelrod said that the signal should come "from the top" that the campaigns will not be waged "in the gutter".

Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008 Wikipedia

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-25 06:00AM | 0 recs
Axelrod said that?

Well then - set it in stone! LOL! Too pathetic!

by Firefly4625 2008-02-25 06:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Hope For Hillary?

So the Republicans wouldn't show this picture come October?  It's better to have it out now along with all the other pictues of Presidents and dignitaries in goofy local costumes.

by wasabi 2008-02-25 06:25AM | 0 recs
It's probably from the wingers

they've already started attacking Obama.

by votermom 2008-02-25 06:30AM | 0 recs
The Reason? Maybe I am wrong, but..

Folks...one thing to keep in mind here.  While a "win" of ANY kind is preferrable for the HRC campaign, the FACT is that a simple 10 point win is not enough.

If she fails to blow Obama out by more than 25 points (gove or take), she STILL is well behind Barack in pledged delgates.  Without hte landslides, she cant catch up.

The HRC camp knows this of course which is why they are throwing everything at him including it seems the photo.

I beleive that this stuff may have more to do with making sure she can raise the 5 million she needs to pay herself back than it does "winning".

by a gunslinger 2008-02-25 06:52AM | 0 recs


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