Overnight Open Thread

We buried McCain's economic talking points last week. Can we do it again this week?

Yak away.



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Re: Overnight Open Thread (none / 0)

Then how come McCain gained in the polls?


by esconded on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:55:59 PM EST

Re: Overnight Open Thread (none / 0)

Tuesday's polls don't reflect Monday's news items. Besides, polls don't matter this early. Let's just keep honing our game.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 09:57:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Overnight Open Thread (none / 0)

those polls are not of much importance as of now in my opinion


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:10:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Overnight Open Thread (none / 0)

Unlike many others, I do think that current polling is important. Very important. It has wide-reaching implications for how both campaigns operate, and it practically dictates the media narrative. And, of course, it gives us an idea of where voters stand right now.

With that said, I'd personally wait for a few more days of tracking results before jumping to any conclusions about who is gaining and who is dropping.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:24:54 PM EST
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Re: Overnight Open Thread (none / 0)

Namely, the important polling is the polling that defines firm support. When it comes to that, Obama is kicking butt. When it comes to party unity, McCain is kicking butt, but only when you include Republicans "slightly happy" with their candidate. As Obama keeps getting firmer on his progressive ideals and proves himself to be a tough candidate, that number will firm. At which point McCain will be in even more dire straits. As long as we keep people away from the "very happy with McCain" camp, we're doing just fine. Because several of those Republicans can still be dismayed over time.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 03:02:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Overnight Open Thread (none / 0)

This is true. Polls do define how campaigns operate - but, they don't predict results, not yet, and I think that's how most people read them. In that regard, they don't matter.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 09:11:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Then how come McCain gained in the polls? (none / 0)

According to the evote map Obama picked up 11 electoral votes this week. 331-207.


by Beren on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:14:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McSame has talking points? (2.00 / 1)

Wow!  Could've fooled me.


by UrbanRedneck on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:10:03 PM EST

Re: McSame has talking points? (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, I thought instead of talking points he just unveils a new series of gaffes each week. I can't wait until next week!


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:26:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Very much looking forward (none / 0)

He's better than anything on Network TV (with the possible exceptions of Two and a Half Men and Big Bang Theory").


by UrbanRedneck on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:51:15 PM EST
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Re: Very much looking forward (none / 0)

Aww, I still like Scrubs!


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 09:12:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McSame has talking points? (2.00 / 1)

In his case they're stammering points.


by Beren on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:07:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Claire McCaskill's performance (2.00 / 2)

on MTP was pretty poor this morning; she came off as incredibly disingenous when she tried to pull "the family sitting around the kitchen table" schtick.  Perhaps that's one of Sebelius's strengths, her ability to come off as genuine and warm, but we won't know about Sebelius's abilities as the bloviators talk more about her than we actually get a chance to hear her talk.  Take her out of her bunker, Barack, let's see what she has got.  McCaskill and Reed were complete duds in their two Sunday auditions.  So far only Biden has shown any capability among the surrogates rumored for the veep slot.

At least McCaskill didn't have as bad an experience as potential McCain veep Mark Sanford; this guy needed twelve seconds to articulate any difference between Bush and McCain on the economy and even then, he could only articulate a difference between Obama and McCain on the issue of NAFTA.  I think Sanford fell further down McCain's list after his performance.


by Blazers Edge on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:15:05 PM EST

Sebelius is no VP (2.00 / 3)

remember her absolutely abysmal State of the Union response? God only knows how awful a campaigner she'd be. Hillary imo is the only woman who should be picked VP. Sebelius is plainly too boring and brings nothing to the ticket, McCaskill no experience, but Hillary has her voters, many of whom are still unsold on Obama and are part of the base we need to win. Base wins elections: hence 2000 and 2004. Hillary being on the ticket would finally bring her insanely rich fundraisers on board who Obama needs to fill his coffers for election day. She brings her strength in Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania where she is popular. Her female supporters would probably be put off by another woman being on the ticket because they'd feel it would be a sad pander attempt. Hillary has experience, has achieved things, and is even on the Armed Services Comittee. McCaskill and Sebelius: no.


by Lakrosse on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 01:17:22 AM EST
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Re: Sebelius is no VP (2.00 / 1)

Sebelius is the most popular politician in Kansas right now - which is pretty impressive since she is a Democrat. She has accomplished a lot for the state and she definitely has a future in politics. I agree her SOTU response was lackluster, but she has strong points too. Hillary would make a much better attack dog and campaigner (no doubt) but many moderates still dislike her, whereas they love Sebelius (at least in Kansas). Personally, I need to see some more video of Sebelius before I can really make a decision about her. They say she is very 'relateable', but I have yet to see this in action.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 03:45:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Overnight Open Thread (none / 0)

I have no problem having open discussions with Clinton supporters who are still hesitant on voting for Obama.  However, they must have an open-mind and must note their responsibility to encourage such an environment that promotes fair and reasonable conversation.


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:20:01 PM EST

Please don't take this wrong (2.00 / 3)

but how about having an open discussion without preconditions?

I think most people here on both sides of the issue are willing to have a reasonable discussion. We may not agree, but we can show respect for one another.

I'm tired of the venom, and lord knows I am as guilty as anyone.

My .02 cents.


by Coldblue on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 10:50:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Overnight Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

Looks like we have a serious battle ahead of us with the media.  McCain stepped in poop several times and no-one, I mean no-one, in the media picked up the smell with the exception of a few minor mainstream blog posts.  What gives?  And how do we beat this?


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 11:25:30 PM EST

Re: Overnight Open Thread (2.00 / 4)

I know. I think the media won't pick up on his gaffes because they want things to seem close. Hence the importance of highlighting national polling instead of E.V. polling (were Obama gained this week. Making it seem as if McCain has a shot (when we all know he is going to get trounced) is the only way to pique interest. Even that's not working.

I don't know about anybody else but this political junkie is bored out of his skull right now.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:08:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Overnight Open Thread (none / 0)

Srickki, why the heck would you TR this??? Talk about blatant abuse, there is nothing offensive or anti-Democratic about this comment whatsoever!!!


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 09:19:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Just remember, (none / 0)

"srickki" is not me. It's someone's sockpuppet (probably rankles), and he's got it in for spaceman.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 09:29:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just remember, (none / 0)

So he does. I hadn't thought to check spaceman's other comments. I've reported him to MyDD.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 09:39:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Whoever you reported it to (none / 0)

took away his ratings ability. Thank god. I just spent forever uprating the last 80-90 of spaceman's comments, and it was getting tedious.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 09:52:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whoever you reported it to (none / 0)

Yeah, Jerome took care of it.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 01:17:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Overnight Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

I do not know the answer to that question. I do know that I want to kill my tv again and that I am feeling that old rage at the machine.

I sometimes think that I should be used to this, after all, I have been a Democrat for most of my life, and the rules are always the same. Republicans can lie, cheat, steal, and do almost anything they want while Democrats get torn to shreds for stuff they didn't even do.

I you don't believe me, think of how they treated a war hero, John Kerry vs AWOL bush jr. Bill Clintons crimes he was impeached for vs the crimes of Reagan or bush jr. Or the media repeating the lie that Gore claimed to have invented the internet. Or the way they have treated Hillary and now Barack over ever microscopic error vs John McCains amazing gaffes and lies.

I wish someone could give me some sort of explaination that made sense, because what I am left with is my rage at the unfairness again.


"And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:13:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Overnight Open Thread (none / 0)

Maddow guest hosted Countdown on Friday and really went after him. I thought she made too big a deal out of the Packers/Steelers thing, but it can't be said that she let him off the hook.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 09:18:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Overnight Open Thread (none / 0)

I missed it.  Strike 'no-one' and substitute ninety-nine out of a hundred.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 03:57:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama is a genuis (2.00 / 2)

If you haven't seen Obama's article on his Iraq position in the New York Times tomorrow check it out. It is already posted online.

It is  brilliant.  I have been predicting that Obama would pivot on Iraq but he did me one better.  Obama doesn't have to pivot, he did more of a complete 360.  He went from advocating a pull out in 16 months because the situation was abysmal to advocating a pull out in 16 months because the job is done.  It is brilliant. The slight of hand in the change of justification is something nobody will pick up on. And by nobody I mean your run of the mill voter.

Here is quote from Obama in the article

In the 18 months since President Bush announced the surge, our troops have performed heroically in bringing down the level of violence. New tactics have protected the Iraqi population, and the Sunni tribes have rejected Al Qaeda -- greatly weakening its effectiveness.

...

The good news is that Iraq's leaders want to take responsibility for their country by negotiating a timetable for the removal of American troops. Meanwhile, Lt. Gen. James Dubik, the American officer in charge of training Iraq's security forces, estimates that the Iraqi Army and police will be ready to assume responsibility for security in 2009.

...  We can safely redeploy our combat brigades at a pace that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 -- two years from now, and more than seven years after the war began. After this redeployment, a residual force in Iraq would perform limited missions: going after any remnants of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, protecting American service members and, so long as the Iraqis make political progress, training Iraqi security forces. That would not be a precipitous withdrawal.

So Obama gets to have his cake and eat too. Notice that caveat at the end for a "residual force" and also he says, "In carrying out this strategy, we would inevitably need to make tactical adjustments."  So there is plenty of wiggle room for post election maneuvering but as far as the election goes, he can stick to his 16 month plan.


by dMarx on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 01:55:21 AM EST

Re: Obama is a genuis (none / 0)

Yeah , Malaki says its time for the US to get out, which happens to align with Baracks stated goal of deployment, so they gel, which is fortunate.  my snarkdar may be off but by 360 you are mocking those calling him a flip flopper on Iraq, no?  


Please don't associate moose with Palin, she likes to kill them.
by KLRinLA on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 02:49:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is a genuis (none / 0)

Yes, but it is genius to do so. There's a reason Obama plays basketball and poker. He is a master of head games and misdirection. To see Obama go up against such a zombified McCain is almost a shame. The only reason it's INTERESTING is because of Karl Rove's brilliant shadow campaign technique. Using that, he has managed to basically control the campaign via surrogate while appearing in, what, three major news outlets on a fairly regular basis?


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 03:22:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is a genuis (none / 0)

Rove is the image that pops in my head when I think of trolls.  I'd put money on it that he started the whole idea of trolling, concern trolling, sockpuppets, etc.  He is a mastermind of all thing devilish.  


Please don't associate moose with Palin, she likes to kill them.
by KLRinLA on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 03:55:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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