Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto the Ticket

Bob Beckel, Walter Mondale's campaign manager and barely-concealed Obama supporter, made an interesting point in an online column last Friday for RCP. (link: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article s/2008/05/if_clinton_wants_to_be_vp_obam .html)

All Hillary Clinton really has to do in order to be the VP nominee is say that she wants to be. Most people don't realize it, but the ultimate decision for VP is made by the convention delegates. We have, in recent history, become used to process of a nominee picking a running mate and that person being endorsed without a lot of questions by the convention. But it is the convention that makes the decision, not the nominee. As long as the person they choose is constituionally qualified, they are the VP pick whether the nominee likes it or not. No vetting process is required.

Surely, Hillary has earned this. After over three months of being told daily that Hillary has no chance, we forget that this election, now almost over, is agonizingly close. One candidate leads in delegates, but one candidate seems almost certain now to be the recipient of more votes. It is basically a 51-49 election (or closer.) It is worth noting, that even after most of us had accepted that HRC had an outside chance at best, she kept winning primaries. She has a strong intensity of support. She could unify the party. I can't imagine a scenario I would vote for Obama in November, except this one.

Here's how it could work:

1. Clinton suspends her campaign after Montana / South Dakota. She must not release her delegates, though it wouldn't matter much in the end.

2. She waits a bit and then says "you know, I think I would like to be VP. I am going to ask my people to gather committments for that honor."

3. Her delegates are only committed to vote for her at the convention for President, but most of them are strong Clinton loyalists and would almost certainly vote for Clinton for VP if she asked. A great many of her current superdelegates would probably jump on board, since they have already stuck with her through the closing bells of the campaign.

4. Again, superdelegates get to make the call. It wouldn't take many. Whatever the number required to nominate is at the convention (we'll know soon enough) would be the magic number. As Beckel points out, Obama's winning margin of 150 or so pledged delegates would be all she would need. In the name of party unity and nominating a ticket that would almost certainly be favored in the fall, I bet Hillary could easily get that many.

If I am the nominee of a party and I want to make sure that I get to name my own VP, I need to win enough pledged delegates to get the nomination outright, so that I truly control the convention. Obama didn't do that. As a consequence, he might have to live with a downticket running mate not of his own choosing.

It would certainly unite the party and be an attractive ticket. It would continue the civics lesson we have all gotten this year about how this sausage making process actually works. It would be a stark reminder to Barack Obama that about half of the party voted for someone else. It would bring we wayward Democrats that are considering voting for Nader or writing in Hillary home to the nominated ticket.

Do I think Hillary would do this? Not likely. Should she? I think so. It would cement her status as a party and leader. She probably will not be nominated for President, but she has earned at least this. Scoff if you will- it's hers for the asking.

Besides, it would have the benefit of allowing all of us to watch Nancy Pelosi driven to apoplexy. Add her to the list of people that I respected before this competition whose behavior has made me very unsure of my status in this party.



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"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:27:13 PM EST

Re: Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto (none / 0)

Nobody should force anything on anybody.

Nobody should force Hillary out

Hillary should force herself on the ticket.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:31:09 PM EST

Re: Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto (2.00 / 0)

you say:

"If I am the nominee of a party and I want to make sure that I get to name my own VP, I need to win enough pledged delegates to get the nomination outright, so that I truly control the convention. Obama didn't do that."

how many is "enough."

i think a strong argument can be made that winning the nomination, which obama will do, counts as "enough."

besides, doing this would literally turn the convention into a circus. the democrats would just look silly. i strongly doubt we'll see something of this sort.


by j cantarella on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:34:54 PM EST

Re: Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto (none / 0)

Hillary is not stupid enough to try to something like this.  To think all of her Delegates would agree to that would be a PIPE DREAM.  By all means if she wants it, she WILL pressure and get her supporters to Pressure Obama to take her and there is NOTHING wrong with that.  But a floor fight for VP at the convention... If she wants to run again in 2016, then that would kill those chances.

We could see a situation like Kennedy/Johnson where Kennedy asked Johnson to be polite and didn't expect him to say yes... only to have him say yes.  But that's about it.  She will definately be vetted though if she is interested.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:09:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can't and won't. (2.00 / 1)

What your diary should say is that the delegates can force it, not Hillary. They won't. The nominee gets to choose the VP, and will do so way before the convention. After a couple of months of campaigning with one VP, the convention is not going to choose another.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:35:54 PM EST

Re: Can't and won't. (none / 0)

It would take one phone call for her campaign to his saying "I would like to be VP"

He would offer it to her b/c he understands that it's not worth pushing it to a floor fight she would be guaranteed to win


by LDFan on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:38:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't and won't. (2.00 / 3)

I'll leave it to her to decide when to leave.  She has earned that right and a lot more.

I'll leave it to him to pick his running mate.  He has earned that right, and a lot more.


by niksder on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:01:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't and won't. (2.00 / 1)

No its not a fight she is guarenteed to win.  Many of those Delegates would NOT do something that destructive to the party.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I believe the point is this......... (none / 0)

Barrack Obama is NOT going to deny her request to be VP, knowing what could ensue at the Convention if he would turn her down.  Therefore,  if Hillary wants it, she's got it.  I don't believe she wants it, but that is just my opinion.


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nothing would ensue at the convention, (none / 0)

and she wouldn't take it there. This is pure fantasy. Do you really think so little of Sen. Clinton as to think she'd do this?


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:49:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As I said........ (none / 0)

I don't believe she wants it

How does that indicate that I think "so little of Hillary Clinton?"   Nonetheless,  its hers if she decides she wants it.


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 10:13:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't and won't. (none / 0)

"the nominee gets to choose the VP"

Not when your opponent is can get the votes on their own. Why do you think Kennedy "picked" Johnson?


by LDFan on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:40:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't and won't. (none / 0)

He didn't.  You need to learn your history.  He asked johnson to be polite, never thinking in a MILLION years Johnson would say yes.  Of course he did and Kennedy was stuck.

I would also point out K/J BARELY won.  So he helped but not the way you are insinuating.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:11:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't and won't. (none / 0)

I think you need to double check your history...

Kennedy Johnson = 303 electoral votes

Nixon = 219...

It was the popular vote that was close...not the actual victory


by LDFan on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:12:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't and won't. (none / 0)

You only start campaigning w VP AFTER the convention, not before.


by NY Writer on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:46:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Simply not true. (none / 0)


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:21:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The diarist is correct (none / 0)

Techincally, it's hers for the taking if she wants it.

The VP is chosen by the delegates ammassed at the convention.

She would be just a tad shy and would have no problem winning over many super delegates who went to Obama for "unity".

Without question, these are the SD's who would jump at the shot for a "unity ticket"


by LDFan on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:37:32 PM EST

Re: The diarist is correct (none / 0)

Techically? No.

The nominee picks her or his vp. That's it.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:04:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary for SCOTUS (none / 0)

I don't honestly think it interests her.  I think she is far more interested in the Supreme Court than VP.  That would be something that would make the wonkette in her drool happily.  Plus I think she is an excellent fit, but that's just my opinion.


Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:37:43 PM EST

Re: Hillary for SCOTUS (none / 0)

It would be very unusual for someone who has never been a judge to go on the Court. That hasn't happened for quite a long time.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:05:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Could, if she loses (none / 0)

But I'm not convinced she should. Ultimately it depends on what would best serve the agenda she has put forward. Her top domestic priority is universal health care, if she can most effectively advocate for that as Obama's VP then I would agree that she should get on the ticket.

Obama's calculation is different, he must figure out how to unite the party and address his deficit among women, Hispanics and the working class. Hillary Clinton as his VP is probably his best option.


by souvarine on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:41:55 PM EST

Re: Hillary Could, if she loses (none / 0)

Actually, Obama leads Clinton now among Hispanics and women:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107407/Obama- Surge-Fairly-BroadBased.aspx

I've seen speculation that the Hispanic numbers are partially driven by the "hard-working Americans, white Americans" comments by Clinton, but I haven't seen any evidence that supports this interpretation.  Could be just a "rally round the likely nominee" effect.  That seems more likely since the poll shows movement among all groups toward Obama.

I think the easiest solution is just to have Hillary preemptively reject the VP offer.  I have trouble seeing how she would step out of the limelight, since she so strongly believes the nomination should be hers and that people choosing for someone else was deeply wrong.  Republican commercials would turn into a "best of Hillary Clinton on Obama."  And she's on her way to being among the most powerful Senators, it seems unlikely she'd want to give that up for an office that is often more ceremonial than anything (Bush-Cheney being a major exception to that, of course).  


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:03:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Could, if she loses (2.00 / 1)

Here's the thing... The ONLY problem with Hillary as VP is that it contradicts his message. Honestly if THAT wasn't the case, I think she would be the top contender.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Could, if she loses (none / 0)

Nah, that's just Democrats lining up behind the likely nominee. Obama's problem is losing some of those demographics to McCain, not Clinton.


by souvarine on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Could, if she loses (none / 0)

She doesn't have a plan for universal health coverage. She has a mandate and a set of subsidies.  To get universal health coverage you need Medicare for all.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:06:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Could (none / 0)

A very interesting and thought provoking diary.
I'm not sure she should "force" her way onto the ticket, but I would certainly be happier with both their names on it.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:53:41 PM EST

If she does force herself on the ticket (none / 0)

I think she can expect 8 years of state funerals and tea parties.

Surely even Obama haters can't think he'll enjoy being pushed around.


by Joe Beese on Tue May 20, 2008 at 06:55:13 PM EST

Re: Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto (2.00 / 1)

Unbelievable...

Look I can see the value of Hillary on the ticket.  She doesn't fit his messaging but I do think it would be a strong ticket.

But to say thats the only way you'd vote for Obama is ridiculous...

Look vote for whom you want too... but its people like you that DIDN'T vote for Gore because "he was the same as Bush" in 2000 and I think everyone in the country would say that things would be MUCH better off if Gore hadn't been screwed.  

McCain will pack the court with Wingnuts like Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Roberts.  ROE V WADE will be overturned... so a vote for McCain is a vote AGAINST Womens rights AND reproductive rights.

McCain will continue Bush's war.  Do you really want that?  

You don't like Obama... that's fine.  But to vote for McCain or Nader or not vote at all is tantamount to betraying Democratic principles by allowing war to continue and to set up a long term RW SCOTUS.  Do what I would have done if Clinton had won... Be pissed off for a few days, hope your candidate is selected as VP, Work hard and donate to Senate campaigns, and then Hold your nose on election day and realize that your least favorite Dem nominee is MUCH BETTER than McCain.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:03:49 PM EST

Re: Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto (none / 0)

I don't think this would happen, because nobody would want it to get that far.  The convention is a PR stunt at which party unity is important.  

I do think that if Clinton lets it be known publicly that she'd like the VP slot, it will be very difficult for Obama to say no.  Not just because she has the threat of a floor fight, but because he needs her supporters to win the election.

Whether Clinton wants to be VP is uncertain, and hinges to some degree on whether she wants to run for president in 2016.  If Obama picks somebody relatively young for VP, that person will automatically be the front-runner for the nomination in 2016.  If Obama picks Clinton, she's almost guarenteed the nomination in 2016 if she wants it,


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:04:21 PM EST

Why wll you not support Obama if he is nominee? (none / 0)

You say that you would not support Obama in November if Hillary is on the ticket. I am curious as to why not. Do you support Hillary's agenda, pulling troops out of Iraq, moving towards universal health care, appointing Supreme Court justices who will support Roe vs Wade, etc., etc., etc? If so Obama will do all of these things. McCain will do just the opposite. So what is your reason for not supporting Obama?


by berkeleymike on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:06:46 PM EST

The pros and cons of Clinton as VP (2.00 / 1)

Pros with Clinton on the ticket, Obama shores up the loose Clinton supporters, possibly picks up more votes in places like WV and KY. Clinton is certainly strong enough to be an effective VP

Cons with Clinton on the ticket, weakened independent support and Republican cross overs go away.  The Clintons dominancy may create serious waves in the White House if and when they try to run the show. Obama looks like a liar on ending ties to lobbyist and special interest in Washington considering the vast connections the Clintons are involved with.

Personally I think it is terrible match and undermines Obama's core message...however...to each is their own.


by netgui68 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:29:40 PM EST

Re: Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto (none / 0)

Yeah, no forcing please.

LEt's not be the party of "forcing."


by luckymortal on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:37:15 PM EST

The way I see it (none / 0)

This is what I think Obama would do.  He'd agree to have Hillary as a running mate, but Obama would select electoral college electors who are particularly loyal to him.  They will pretend to support Hillary for VP but, if the Obama/Hillary ticket wins the general election, Obama tells his electors not to vote for her for VP in the electoral college.  

Thus, Obama gets the advantage of running with Hillary, but then won't have to govern with her.


99% perspiration
by DaveOinSF on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:39:39 PM EST

Re: The way I see it (none / 0)

That's .... a little bit out there. I can't see Obama deciding that he's a one term president with no political support is a good trade for a "screw you" move against Sen. Clinton.


by werehippy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:47:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Earth to Dave n/t (none / 0)


by NY Writer on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think.... (none / 0)

My prediction:  Obama will offer it and she will accept.  Neither of them has any other option.


by handsomegent on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:45:57 PM EST

Re: I think.... (none / 0)

I'll take 2:1 odds that the VP isn't Sen. Clinton. He just can't take her anymore after the primary they've had, and he's already started making up ground among the Demographics she was strong in everywhere except Appalachia, which he can do without if he can't get those votes some other way.

Sen. Obama needs more pick up power in the Midwest, someone with strong foreign policy credentials, and someone who matches his political philosophy in that order of importance.


by werehippy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 07:50:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think.... (none / 0)

It's not just Appalachia--it's Ohio, Penn, Michigan, and especially Florida.  I don't think he has a chance in those states w/o her--oh, let's not forget New Mexico and possibly New Jersey.


by handsomegent on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:03:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think.... (none / 0)

He's leading against McCain in PA, NJ, and NM right now.  Also in most MI polls. And he's leading among Hispanics against Clinton right now.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think.... (none / 0)

More specifically, he's still weak in the Appalachia parts of PA, but not weak enough that he can't win with what he has there and rock solid anchors in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

Ohio has Appalachia like regions, but that was a squeaker of a race and he should have no trouble building a coalition there.

Michigan he's been polling ahead of Clinton and does well enough on his own. New Jersey and New Mexico he's also doing well in, winning Jersey outright against McCain and usually winning New Mexico.

Florida is the only where it's iffy, and that's not a swing state for him. He'd love to win it and he'll certainly campaign hard (if for no reason than to make McCain waste time and effort) but he could live without it pretty easily, especially given how favorable the cycle is looking.


by werehippy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:14:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think.... (none / 0)

Why does the Electoral Vote map show him losing Michigan?


by handsomegent on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:30:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto (none / 0)

Hillary is bad news for an Obama ticket, her "establishment" status and somewhat conservative views on many issues do not mesh well with his change the way we do politics mantra.  If Hillary hadn't been so Hawkish over the last 8 years the other stuff might be excusable, but we can not have ANOTHER VP threatening to "obliterate Iran."


by brathor on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:02:27 PM EST

Re: Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto (none / 0)

Oh and Barack Obama is SO anti-establishment with Sam Nunn and Tom Dashcle supporting him.


by handsomegent on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:04:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

rer (none / 0)

Hillary should say fine Barack can be the nominee but I am now running for Vice President and I have 1800+ delegates backing me up at the convention


by rossinatl on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:29:38 PM EST

Brilliant Diary!!!!! (none / 0)

I really enjoyed it.  I read the article you referenced as well, and initially scoffed at the idea.  But why not????????   Hillary could transform the job of VP to be one of more substance (as she did with the job of First Lady) and redifine the role!    She could use her position to expidite Universal Healthcare,  and she could also help Barrack avoid the pitfuls of a neophyte administration,  by tapping into her wealth of experience!!!!  

It will be nice to have the Clintons back in charge, helping the newbie, and Unifying the ticket!!!!!  


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:30:17 PM EST

If Obama Doesn't Offer it to Her - He Will Lose (none / 0)


by hypopg on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:33:26 PM EST

Re: Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto (none / 0)

I think Obama probably realizes the necessity of this as a way to guarantee that he'll be the 44th POTUs rather than a noble try. But his supporters are another question. He has sold them on so much fantasy---he's not politics as usual, he's going to transform Washington and get rid of lobbyists (does that include lobbyists AGAINST not drilling in Alaska, or pro-choice lobbyists or those for the environment?)--that Obama supporters are all Yes We Can, and no recognition of the fact that the great unifier was only able to convince half of his party that he was the right one.

Together they can't be beat.


by NY Writer on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:53:19 PM EST

Re: Hillary Could, And Should, Force Her Way Onto (none / 0)

And also.....This is a serious election. The issues, of course, but also the passion with which O and H supporters approach their candidate of choice.

We've got Hilary winning states that Bill won in landslides, and winning other big important states like PA, FL, OH.

Like is like first grade mathematics. If you want to guarantee having her supporters, you have her on the ticket.

On the other hand, if your 'new math' to go with new politics is to say we don't necessarily need all the Democrats who participated, because GOPers are going to make up for them, in inde's, all I can say is: Don't take these odds to Vegas.


by NY Writer on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:57:32 PM EST

A Dignified Withdrawal (none / 0)

Do I think Hillary would do this? Not likely. Should she? I think so. It would cement her status as a party and leader. She probably will not be nominated for President, but she has earned at least this. Scoff if you will- it's hers for the asking.

Bowing out gracefully and giving Obama a passionate endorsement would do just as much to show her leadership ability and status within the party.


by TooFolkGR on Wed May 21, 2008 at 09:17:19 AM EST


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