Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson should not be the VP nominee

Since Senator Obama has nearly clinched the race for the 2008 Democratic Presidential nomination; many have naturally turned to what people he will be looking at for Vice Presidential nominees. One of the most popular of the suggestions is Obama supporter Bill Richardson of New Mexico.

Before I start in, I would like to mention that Gov. Richardson has a great amount of experince and a good track record with the Democratic Party and has done his share on gay rights.

more after the flap

But unfortunatley, one extremely crass word that Richardson used in 2007 has scared me away from him in a serious way. in 2006, Richardson, while on the air with "shockjock" and noted racist/sexist Don Imus, dropped the Spanish word for "faggot" in a discussion.

http://citizenchris.typepad.com/citizenc hris/2007/07/bill-richardson.html

IMUS: "You can just answer this yes or no and this will answer that question. Would you agree that Bernard is a maricón?"

RICHARDSON "Yo creo que Bernardo, sí -- es un maricón si él piensa que yo no soy hispano. [General laughter] Was that good enough or what? [General laughter]"

IMUS: "That's good enough for me."

And some analysis from the blogger:

Most of the gay Latinos interviewed for our story, and every gay Latino I've talked to about the subject, agrees that "maricón" means "faggot" in Spanish.  So, translated into English, Richardson had replied, "I believe that Bernard, yes -- he's a faggot if he thinks that I am not Hispanic."

Obviously, while Gov. Richardson has a good record among Democrats in regards to GLBT issues, I, for one, think that this type of language is on par with calling an African American the "N" word, or other racial epitets. And I think that in tandem with the outrage shown by the Obama campaign towards Hillary Clinton's use of "white Americans" in a discussion being branded as racist, and branding her as using racist tactics, and with many of Barack's supporters disowning her for these comments which are very much a reach to describe as "racist", then perhaps it's time to spread the standard more fairly and take a stand and say that homophobia is indeed just as bad as racism. Considering the attack on supposed "race baiting" and "racism" from the Clinton campaign, against someone who has a very strong record with African American issues like Hillary, Bill's record on GLBT issues should not excuse him from a rejection of the Vice Presidency based on this epiteth used against GLBT people; which is HIGHLY offensive.

What was just as inexucseable was his explination and apology, from the article above:

A year later, seeking the Democratic nomination for president, Richardson's statement in response to the incident is even more of a non-apology apology. This time around, he claims the word means "simply 'gay,' not positive or negative.

"It has been brought to my attention that the word also has a hurtful or derogatory connotation, which was never my intent," said Richardson. "If I offended anybody, I'm sorry."

I don't buy it and neither did the author of the blog quoted. It's obvious to me, living in a fairly Latino area of the US as well as to Latinos themselves that "maricon" has a negative connotation and is one of the Spanish equivalents to "faggot". This coupled with some triangulating with the GLBT population about the McClurkin situation from Obama has made some GLBT people extremely hesitant to fully embrace his canidadcy. While I will do so because he is the Democrat, Obama has an image that does not seem to be gay friendly, and a nomination of Richardson would do nothing to change that. While the GLBT population is not very large, a 1 or 2% increase in turnout from us could lead to a win in a close state where Obama was previously trailing or is tied. I hope that Senator Obama realizes that many GLBT people, including myself, are very uncomfortable with some of his previous actions regarding the GLBT people, and a nomination of Richardson would only hurt us more.

While I understand that he still has a good record on GLBT issues, and I will vote for him irregardless, I think the word "faggot" is inexcuseable and a non-apology that Richardson issued should give GLBT people cause for concern if he is the nominee for Vice President.

UPDATE:

I certainly don't mean this to try to say that Bill Richardson hates the GLBT population or something, and I want to make a retraction about the auto DQ about the Veepship. But at the same time, I hope it lends serious credence to the fact that perhaps the Obama campaign should look in a few more areas. I know that gays aren't the most important voting bloc in the world but there are plenty of other talented politicans, IE Sebelius or Clark, who have not made statements like this that could help as a Veep.



Display:


more to the point, he pissed off the Clintons. (1.00 / 1)

your diary is really reaching, and actually quite disrespectful.  wrapping up an entire career of public service into one statement, which frankly isn't even close to offensive, is pathetically desperate.


by heaveno on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:23:19 AM EST

Re: more to the point, he pissed off the Clintons. (2.00 / 7)

I'm not saying that his entire career is defined by the statement, however, many of my fellow Obama supporters have suggested that Hillary Clinton may be "borderline racist" due to her comment regarding "white Americans". Why is this any different? Why does the gay community not have just as big of a reason to be outraged as the African American community?


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:28:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: more to the point, he pissed off the Clintons. (2.00 / 2)

If you can overlook Obama's gay "problem" you'll get over Richardson's gay "problem" too


by reggie44pride on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:16:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: more to the point, he pissed off the Clintons. (2.00 / 6)

"which frankly isn't even close to offensive"

Calling someone a "faggot" or "effeminate" isn't offensive to you?  Don't get me wrong, I really like Richardson but I was very disappointed when he made that comment.


When you get into bed with evil incarnate, it always takes the covers.
by thatpurplestuff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:31:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: more to the point, he pissed off the Clintons. (none / 0)

Just one comment.  I agree that "effeminate" is intended as offensive, but as a woman I really dislike that being feminine is considered bad - even if it's in a man.

I totally agree that maricon and faggot are highly offensive.  I, too, tend to like Richardson, but hare-brained things like that from his mouth kept me from supporting his candidacy.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:05:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: more to the point, he pissed off the Clintons. (none / 0)

Totally agreed.  I didn't make myself very clear when I said that.


When you get into bed with evil incarnate, it always takes the covers.
by thatpurplestuff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:16:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: more to the point, he pissed off the Clintons. (none / 0)

Understood.  Thanks.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:17:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Richardson also said that (2.00 / 2)

homosexuality was a choice back when he was running, that comment made me go from having him in my wobble base (I was wobbling back and forth from Edwards, Biden and Richardson ) to flipping from Edwards Biden and Dodd.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:47:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He did. (2.00 / 1)

From the Washington Post:

Bloomberg News columnist Margaret Carlson and I were stealing glances at each other when singer Melissa Etheridge asked New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson an easy question: "Do you think homosexuality is a choice, or is it biological?" His response was quick: "It's a choice!" My visible reaction to Carlson was equally quick: "Oh, no, he didn't!"

<snip>

The forum's organizers hoped to get the candidates to show their concern for the gay and lesbian community and to see whether their understanding emanated from their consultant-generated talking points or from their hearts. Clearly, Richardson's head needed some work. Even his campaign recognized this -- it issued a "clarifying" statement not one hour after the event. And on a gay radio show the next day, Richardson told host Michelangelo Signorile that he didn't understand the question because of jet lag.

You can see a video of the exchange here.


Atdleft's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:33:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (2.00 / 6)

Why is it that otherwise reasonable political types turn into total frat boys with Imus.  Why even go on Imus... who are his listeners??


by BlueInBoston on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:24:16 AM EST

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (2.00 / 6)

I have a lot of respect for Richardson's work across the globe, but I'm disappointed in him for this statement. The gay rights movement is about 30 years behind the civil rights movement - I can't believe that he holds a serious hatred of gay people, but that doesn't excuse his comment in this day and age.


by upstate girl on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:36:46 AM EST

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (2.00 / 1)

I'll make an update to this, because I don't really think that it should automatically DQ him from the Veep-ship, but I think it gives GLBT people a good reason to be concerned. But I appreciate seeing why this would be offensive.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:41:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

I can't believe that he holds a serious hatred of gay people

Me either. I really think he just doesn't get it. He isn't fit for the national stage and I hope people stop thinking he is a good choice for VP. He would be an embarrassment. He would be our Quayle.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:43:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

Well, he'd hardly be our Quayle (a man whose only credentials were being a Senator on the dynasty plan and a bagman for Bush in Iran-Contra), he's fantastically qualified and experienced, and if he  were willing to exercise more sense and restraint in what he says, he'd make a great VP candidate.


by letterc on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:25:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think this is non-issue as to whether he'll be (2.00 / 2)

the VP.  While I know he's favored among Obama supporters, the campaign really is not pushing him.  They're using him where he can drum up support.  They're pretty aware that he's an abysmal campaigner, which I would say is probably a prerequisite for the slot.  And I think he would just further alienate Clinton supporters after the Carville comments.

I'm sorry if this comment offended you.  I don't know enough about Spanish to know whether it is offensive.  It seems like it was said in the context of the other person saying Richardson was not a Latino.  Rather than debunk that insult, he fell prey to Imus's trap and basically answered yes, he is a whatever.  Had Obama been in the same situation, he would have stepped outside of the box and said we need to look at the situation rather than answering the question either way.  Richardson has not been the most brilliant at identifying questions that are designed to trap him, yet another reason why he shouldn't be on the ticket.


by The Distillery on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:43:14 AM EST

Re: Homophobia in politics: why (2.00 / 1)

This is quite surprising.  I agree with others that he isn't ready for prime time, even without that comment.


by rfahey22 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:46:16 AM EST

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

Wait. That's not what you think.

I'm not supporting Richardson in anyway but as a hispanic I can
tell you he wasn't using it as a gay slur.

It does mean faggot if you go by it's original meaning but it's used as a playful insult between friends and has all but lost it's original meaning.

It's like similiar in the english language to what
son of a bitch has become. If you take it literally the meaning is
clear but it has evolved.

You scared me you sonavabitch! is not the same as

saying Your mother is a bitch. People get that.

I don't know if you guys understand what I'm saying here.

People who want to understand will and those who don't won't.

I'm just trying to explain that between friends it's not offensive
if used in jest. Gays don't get offended anymore than straights.

the son of a bitch comparison is the closest I can get.

I hope that those that want to understand a bit will.

I'm not saying it's not crass or vulgar but I am trying to explain that used in the context and tone he did it's not that bad.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:46:52 AM EST

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

Kinda hard to explain this one.

Doesn't translate well at all.

Depends in the way it is used it can be maricon (as in faggot) or

maricon no jodas! (dude stop playing around!)


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:48:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (2.00 / 1)

I understand where you're coming from, but its such a loaded word for a politician of all people to use. I don't know much spanish but I know I've heard the word before used quasi-insultingly like you said - but wow, foot in mouth, big time.


by upstate girl on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:51:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (2.00 / 3)

I don't know if I like your response.

The word "gay" or even "faggot" in english is often a playful  insult tossed around between friends but I don't think it loses it's offensive meaning just because of that, because it's still an insult and it still notates something being deragatory about homosexuals. Like the teenagers in high school who say their best friend is "gay" when they are goofing around. Obviously they don't think he's gay; so it does lose some of it's meaning, but it's still offensive.

And even if that's the case, at least here in Phoenix (perhaps the slur is regionalized), it's recognized as the Spanish word for faggot, at least by all the GLBT Latinos I've met.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:51:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (2.00 / 2)

I really think its a generational thing - and its going to take another one to completely wipe it out. I've had to break myself of the habit of saying something was "gay" when I was growing up - you're right that its often used as a casual goofing around insult with no malice behind it, but once you're past a certain age (or actually get to know someone from the GLBT community) you should really know better than to just sling it around. Hell, my best friend is gay and even when he says "boy that's gay" I still can't bring myself to use it casually.


by upstate girl on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:03:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)


exactly! that's gay dude.

You don't even know what it means when you are a kid and in your head it has a completly different meaning.

kudos upstate girl for understanding what I typed even though I can't tell how it's coming off at all.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:06:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

It IS recognized as faggot.

Never said it wasn't.

But it can be used in a different context.

I'm not trying to get everybody to understand.

For a politician it's not a good move but he deserves the benefit
of the doubt.

It's nowhere near as offensive as faggot is between friends.

Let's see.

Say this little kid pops a wheelie on his bike and he's like 8.

It would not be uncommon to hear somebody say...

"Tu viste lo que hizo ese mariconcito?"

"Did you see what that little fucker  just do?"

It's crass and vulgar and wrong. Not everybody uses the term but it isn't a slam on gays or seen an insult.

The latino upbringing is way macho and alot of these derogatory
words found themselves into normal language.

I'm trying here guys! lol!

I'm not defending what he said but it's not clear as one might
think.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:04:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Time for a lesson (1.00 / 2)

Everyone fucks, so "little fucker" doesn't pick on one demographic group.  Where as "faggot" among friends should only be used by gay people between each other.

Richardson isn't gay, is he?  Is Don Imus?  I've got gay friends who call each other "faggot."  Hell, I've got black friends who call each other "nigger."  That is between friends, IF you are of the group.  It is NOT between friends if it's Richardson and Imus.

I understand about the macho Latino upbringing, but "nigger" was normal usage at one time in our history and that did not make it all right.  I also hate the word "bitch" used about women.

Another point - I've lived years in San Diego and know many gay Latinos.  In macho Mexican culture, I have been given to understand, lots of family men also have clandestine sex with young men.  They don't think it makes them gay.  It's one of those weird and quite hypocritical things that human beings sometimes do.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:13:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time for a lesson (1.50 / 2)

Whatever man. It's closer to what upstate girl said in the term gay. As for the rest of your comment, it is pathetic.

Believe what you wan't to believe but I don't think you are

any position to tell me what it means or what it doesn't mean.

I never said it was right to use the term. I just said it has various uses and it has nothing to do with calling anybody a faggot.

The thing is, I don't think you are the person to give me a lectureon what anything in the mexican community means because you have mexican neighbors.

This "lots of family men have sex with kids" line is totally out
of line and a downright smear.

I have no idea how you go off judging by hearsay and how you would type such an insulting statement like this.

In mexican culture men do not have sex with young boys.

Pedophiles have sex with young boys, it's not a culture thing.

Weak dude. Very weak.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:28:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time for a lesson (none / 0)

I didn't say young boys.  I said men.

Pedophilia can be cultural.  Incest was cultural in ancient Egypt, after all.  But I was not by any means saying that ALL Mexican family men do that.  Jeebus.  Ease up.

My comment is not a smear - it was told to me by several gay Latino men of my acquaintance, one of whom sadly died of AIDS-related illness before he could become an American citizen, which was his dream.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:37:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time for a lesson (1.50 / 2)

"In macho Mexican culture, I have been given to understand, lots of family men also have clandestine sex with young men. "

-Montague

You are a troll.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:41:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time for a lesson (none / 0)

Good night.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:41:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time for a lesson (none / 0)

I'd like to say other things to you but I will refrain from doing it
because it might lead to a ban.

Just so you know, I have lost ALL respect for you and will not take anything you write seriously again.

Mexican men have sex with little boys? It's a culture thing?

Troll.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:31:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time for a lesson (none / 0)

Say whatever you like.  I didn't know you before, but you haven't instilled any respect in me.

Plenty of white American family men ALSO have clandestine sex with men.  The point was that the Mexican culture is based on machismo, which makes it odd that members of that culture can still have homosexual relations but deny that they are anything but straight.  


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:41:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (2.00 / 1)

I hate it when some kid uses "gay" in a derogatory sense.  They say it doesn't mean gay, it just means bad.  I tell them to stop using it that way because it's homophobic, regardless of what they want to think.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:16:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (1.00 / 1)

Shut up please.

You said your piece.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:31:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

Wow.  You are really weirded out.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:42:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

And please stay in your own conversation line, troll.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:44:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (2.00 / 1)

Sorry, but it's highly offensive. Your explanation is off the wall.

It's an offensive word and there's no excusing it. Period.


by cuppajoe on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:48:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

I believe Richardson endorsed Obama after asking for, and getting, a VP promise.  I also suspect that he asked Hillary first and she wouldn't give him what he wanted, and then he turned to Obama, who needed (and still needs) help with the Latino community.

Too bad.  I liked Richardson once upon a time.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:07:02 AM EST

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

Didn't he announce at a very odd time?  If that were true, wouldn't it have been coordinated a little better?


by rfahey22 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:17:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

No, it was before New Mexico, wasn't it?  Perhaps I misrecall.  But it was certainly shortly after reports that Bill Clinton watched the Super Bowl with Richardson and  supposedly was trying hard to get Richardson to endorse Hillary.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:19:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

I don't know if there were rumors earlier, but he went public around March 20, four weeks before PA.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23740104/

The timing and the state seem very non-strategic.


by rfahey22 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:22:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually it makes some sense strategically (none / 0)

as it was in response to the Philadelphia speech about race.  Thus providing context that it was really effective.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:25:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually it makes some sense strategically (none / 0)

Maybe, but PA does not have a large Latino population and the lift from a super's endorsement lasts for maybe one news cycle, if there's any lift at all.  I mean, it's actually sort of funny that upthread we couldn't figure out when Richardson had endorsed in the first place.  Anyway, Richardson may have been offered something, but I don't think that that's necessarily true.  


by rfahey22 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:31:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He waited until after TX because (none / 0)

it became clear that Hillary wouldn't need him to lure any Latinos and he couldn't deliver any for Barack. More Latinos know who Barack is than know who Bill Richardson is.


"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."
by LatinoVoter on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:11:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Agreed. (none / 0)

He came out and gave Obama a boost when he really needed it.  It gave Obama a lift and it made Richardson look like a lifesaver.


Atdleft's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My two cents: (2.00 / 2)

"Maricon" does not equal "faggot". A "maricon" is a "sissy" or "pansy." "Joto" (pronounced Hoto) is the equivalent of "faggot." Though "maricon" could rise to the level (venom wise) to faggot if you add a curse word before it like "pinche."

Now for the second cent;

Even though those dolts on the radio show were supposedly joking around with him their joke was pretty loaded. I guess you'd have to be Hispanic or Latino and have to deal with people (usually white) who think they're in a position to judge whether you're Hispanic/Latino to understand. Add to that that Bill Richardson is biracial and the "joke" probably hit too close to home for him and he took the otherwise obvious bait and went there with them.

I found myself in a similar position today with some Obamabot who thought he/she knew me and actually said I was just pretending to be Latino. It took all I could muster to not pull a Bill Richardson on him/her.

Disclosure: Bill was my number two until he stabbed the Clintons in the back, though I never gave him any money.

Disclosure#2: I'm a Gay American. (h/t Gov. McGreasy)  


"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."
by LatinoVoter on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:17:09 AM EST

Re: My two cents: (2.00 / 1)

Pansy = faggot.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:20:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Pansy also (1.00 / 1)

is a flower,.
Kingdom Plantae
Phylum Anthophyta
Class Eudicotyledonae
Order violales
Family (same as violets my taxonomy doesn't get much beyond order for plants)
Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:24:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Faggot is also a log (2.00 / 1)

BUT NOT IN THIS CONTEXT.

Dude, get real.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:28:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do not agree. (none / 0)

pansy=Viola × wittrockiana  ;0)

Seriously, a pansy used in a derogatory way means a man who is weak or effeminate. Not all gay men are "weak" or "effeminate."

But then again we all think we're butcher than we are. ;0)


"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."
by LatinoVoter on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:28:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do not agree. (none / 0)

Heh.  And of course faggot also means cigarette or log.  And in a British public school, one's "fag" was the underclassman who had to do your chores and errands.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:30:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

But also... (2.00 / 1)

Yes, of course lots of gay men are strong and masculine.  I've known straight men who are nerdly, 90-pound weaklings... and totally sweet and delightful human beings.

I assure you that pansy has been used in American idiomatic usage for decades to mean a gay man.  Language is my forte.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:33:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not saying it (none / 0)

hasn't or that language is not your forte. What I'm disagreeing with is the notion that pansy is the same as "faggot." I personally see "faggot" as way more loaded and venomous, so much so that they're not even comparable in my mind.


"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."
by LatinoVoter on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:37:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not saying it (none / 0)

Understood that that is your experience of it.  From my experience it has always meant gay, and in fact in a derogatory sense.  Faggot is a nastier word, true. It's just that I've never heard anyone use pansy to mean a weak man unless they also meant a gay man.  But then, to call a man weak is usually a sly attempt to call him gay, and not in a good way.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:50:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My two cents: (none / 0)

I really never in my life heard that until the last month.  Whenever I heard it used in the past I would have understood it to mean coward.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:44:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My two cents: (none / 0)

Goes to show, different experiences by different people, possibly in different regions of the country/world.  Long story short, pansies are very pretty flowers.


by Montague on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:06:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My two cents: (none / 0)

Gracias.

No tenia idea como explicarlo.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:32:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

De nada. (none / 0)


"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."
by LatinoVoter on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:13:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I should add: (none / 0)

Back when I was a Bill Richardson supporter I read on the Obama 527 known as HuffingtonPost published a hit piece making claims that he had a big sexual harassment problem. I can't find them now so maybe they've been scrubbed since he swallowed the kool-aid.

So if you're thinking something is going to sink him I'd say his maricon moment will pale in comparison to women coming out and backing up the allegation hit piece.


"Barack did the Constitution just like he did Hillary. He was riding dirty."
by LatinoVoter on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:34:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Very disappointing. (2.00 / 1)

I'm not a huge Richardson fan, anyway, though. Frankly, I think he'd be a drag on the ticket.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:18:17 AM EST

Re: Very disappointing. (none / 0)

Yup, they looked good together, but aside from that he doesn't seem like a good VP.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:45:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain is looking (none / 0)

better every day.

Like Obama gives a shit about glbt people, given the south carolina homophobic roadshow and his lack of stopping it or apologizing afterwards.


I am sick of the disrespect shown to Sen.Clinton by many on Dailykos, and now, too often, here. You aren't winning hearts and minds.
by SoCalVet on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:19:13 AM EST

Re: McCain is looking (none / 0)

zcflint will overlook Obama's gay problem and probably that of a (likely) DINO running mate.


by reggie44pride on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:24:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Cranky McSame? Huh? (2.00 / 1)

I would sooner kiss a girl than vote for Cranky McSame.

Cranky McSame wants to pack the court full of Antonin Scalias.  Scalia voted AGAINST the 2003 decision that made laws against gay sex illegal.  Cranky McSame wants a Supreme Court full of justices who think it is okay to ban private, consensual sexual behavior because that behavior is happening between two members of the same sex.

I absolutely adore Hillary Clinton.  I admire her so much and I am so proud to call myself a Clintonista.  But if Obama is the nominee, I am going to support him with my heart and soul.  This is about the future of my country and about how soon I am going to be seen as an American, rather than the 3/5 person I feel like right now.


Atdleft's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:39:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (2.00 / 1)

That's a little bit surprising.

Obviously feelings toward gay rights, and so forth, aren't equivalent throughout the party.  The black community is fairly religious, and less gay friendly (in general, obviously with exceptions).  I don't know for certain, but I'd imagine the Latino community's largely Catholic faith would make it similarly less gay friendly, though I'd appreciate hearing someone else's opinion on this, as I don't speak with any certainty.

It's disappointing, for certain, and I think reactions to homosexuals (even among those who want to be PC) are still among the most difficult for heterosexual men, simply because the vast majority of their exposure is to ridiculous stereotypes, rather than reality, and homosexuality isn't always so obvious as race, sex, or any of the other things that make people different.  

I think this was also evident in some of Richardson's answers at the gay issues candidate forum.  Irrational beliefs about race and sex aren't tolerated, but sexuality is the "new" form of discrimination, and people are bombarded with information like "being gay is a choice" that, if they're not gay, they lack the experience to speak on authoritatively.  

I think the time will come when we look on this period of national gay bashing with the same shame we look on our racist past, and I hope we reach such conclusions as soon as possible.


Donate to Obama, Today!
by freedom78 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:14:13 AM EST

Let's face it (none / 0)

Richardson knows his stuff and is a good political guy, but his performance in the debates showed he's not ready for the big time.  He's prone to looking stupid, saying odd things, and not looking nearly as smart as he probably is.

He's a 2nd tier (or lower) pick along with DINO Sebelius.


by reggie44pride on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:28:40 AM EST

zcflint05 (none / 0)

You loined the Obama campaignyesterday, so I have noticed, and I truly wish you my best.

But another thing I am noticing is that you may not find much comfort in doing so in the long run.  You were welcomed with open arms yesterday, but today, when you bring up only a few minor disagreeing opinions, I see that it's going to be tough for you. Only total acceptance of everything and all to do with Obama will do.  Do not sway, do not express original thoughts that may go against only one or a mass of Obama supporters.

Their kindness appears to be limited only to the original conversion post.  Beyond that, you may find that the day after, unless you agree with anything and everything one or a mass of O supporters put forth, in the same place you were before you changed.

They are not a wholesome group, and their friendship is fickle.  But still my best wishes are for you.

I personally need to keep up the fight, even when it looks like there's no way to win.  Because that's the only way true leaders have won in the past.  I'll stick with her until the end, whatever it may be.

In the meantime I just want to say thanks for the many fiery, fierce and dedicated diaries you wrote in support of Hillary.  They mattered.  They were part of the groundwork we all layed down.

Thanks for all you do, and I wish you happiness.


It does not take many words to tell the truth Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
by Gabriele Droz on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:44:46 AM EST

Spell-checking on my post above (none / 0)

"You loined the Obama campaignyesterday".  

I really have to laugh here.  Of course it should say "You joined the Obama campaign yesterday".

The "loined" part really gets me.  Hope you can laugh with me.  I really should have used the "preview" button.


It does not take many words to tell the truth Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
by Gabriele Droz on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:49:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE (none / 0)

YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED


by Skaje on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:28:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: zcflint05 (none / 0)

"Only total acceptance of everything and all to do with Obama will do."

What bullshit.

This sort of comment comes from the sort of people that believe Obama should seek "forgiveness" for merely disagreeing with Bill Clinton's financial record in the 1990s.


by Aris Katsaris on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:47:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This guy is the next Secy. of State (1.00 / 2)

of the United States.  Lay off.


by bigdcdem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:11:42 AM EST

Re: This guy is the next Secy. of State (none / 0)

I'm glad that you find "faggot" or anything like it excusable just because someone might have a high level of power. I'm guessing that you'd find an ethnic slur just as excusable?


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:51:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nah, it's not the same (none / 0)

Though both are objectionable.


by bigdcdem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:55:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nah, it's not the same (none / 0)

Anyone who thinks any type of phobia or ism--homophobia, racism, sexism, etc, is more excusable than the other is not worth my time. That kind of thinking is the kind of thinking that makes  sure we never get rid of any of the gender or racial biases that make up our society.

But you might want to get together with people like Matthew Shepard or Lawrence King and tell them why homophobia just doesn't measure up to racism or sexism.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:13:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry, it's bad, but not the same (none / 0)

Blacks and women can't be "in the closet."  The bigotry just isn't the same, sorry.


by bigdcdem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:53:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry, your attitude is sad (none / 0)

Do you think kids like Larry King CAN BE IN THE CLOSET????

There are plenty of gay kids who simply can't fit in and be in the closet.

Also there are plenty of straight kids, who are perceived as being gay.  What closet do you want them to hide in for protection?


by Si Ella Puede on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:06:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I used to like Richardson (none / 0)

and was considering between him and Joe Biden (back when we still had 7), but after seeing him in person at a small college in NH, I was very turned off by him.  He was asked a question by a student, and kind of tried to avoid a direct answer.  The kid was persistent and asked again, and he really got annoyed and lost his temper - kind of surprising, considering it wasn't that hard a question, and this was supposed to be an easy meet and greet.  Since McCain's temper is such a topic this election, I would think you wouldn't want a running mate with potentially the same problem.  Plus, to be politically incorrect for a minute, at least McCain is old enough to carry off the grouchy curmudgeon (sp?), Richardson isn't quite old enough to pull it off.


by AnnC on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:25:25 AM EST

Re: Homophobia in politics: why Bill Richarson sho (none / 0)

We've created this atmosphere of democrats being insensitive to gays.  We, the netroots.

By going after every right winger we could find with the 'closet gay' charge, we have abandoned the high ground in this fight.  

We are becoming what we always accused them of being, intolerant gay-bashers.  We'd better change course now, or you'll be hearing more democrat candidates making such remarks.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:19:56 AM EST

I agree that Richardson (none / 0)

..is not the best idea for VP, I really hope he taps Clark or Webb  (hate to lose Webb from the Senate though).

I think "faggot" is not an exact translation for the Spanish word.. some words have different meanings in different cultural contexts. (People where I live like to call ultra-homophobic cowboys "bottoms," suggesting they protest too much and are compensating.)

How Richardson is policy-wise towards us queerfolk is more important, IMO.


by rhetoricus on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:38:53 PM EST

Out of contention. (none / 0)

It's a deeply painful comment.  It brought out some past emotions for my partner, who was viciously called MARICON all through school, including beatings, taunting, etc.

And don;t soft-pedal this. It means FAG. It's one of the meanest words that can be used against a person PERCEIVED as being gay.

Bill Richards removed himself from consideration of any higher office, in our personal opinion.


by Si Ella Puede on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:03:16 PM EST

Bill Richarson should not be the VP nominee (none / 0)

sorry Richardson....


by Si Ella Puede on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:03:42 PM EST


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