Want to Know What Keeps Her Going?

Hillary's been traveling the country talking with folks like us for the past 15 months and the current calls for her to give it up certainly don't mark the first time her opponents have tried to force her out of this race.  But she's shown us time and time again that the pundits were wrong in saying she's finished.  She fought back before and she's fighting back now because she's just that tough.  Heck, Hillary's been taking the heat from the haters for 15 years or more so I'm amazed she even wanted to get into this thing in the first place after the way they've gone after her and her family over the years.

But she's fighting for the chance to take on McCain in the general election and make it to the White House.  She knows we're counting on her - we believe she can and will make a huge and positive difference in our lives once she makes it to the White House and she hears us loud and clear.

I can't begin to imagine the number of people she's met over the years.  Folks tell her their stories of why they need her experience, strength and help.  They share with her their nightmares in getting health care for their kids, or of how they're about to lose their home to the bank because they got laid off 2 years ago and can't find work.

She also hears from those of us who beg her never to give up this fight.  We send her notes and hand her cards with encouraging words, reminding her of how desperately we need her in the Oval Office.  We're counting on her and she knows it - and that's what keeps her strong.  That's what keeps her from giving up.  She gets out there every single morning - stays on message and by suiting up and showing up she shows us she's in this thing to win it.

For us.

For the parents who go out of our way to bring our kids out to hear Hillary speak.  And for some of the folks who meet her or send her notes along the way.  Take for instance some of the folks mentioned on her campaign's blog...  

What People Are Saying Across West Virginia

...just wanted to drop a line to tell you about one of your amazing supporters in WV. This would be my cousin Kathy. In the last past year she has been through open heart surgery and leukemia. She got out of the hospital about a month and half ago in remission. Tonight I was getting on the interstate to go to Clarksburg, and who do I see - my cousin Kathy standing on the side of the road waving a Hillary sign.  That is true heart. Like me, she was raised by a mother who taught her to be independent and never set limitations. I won't vote for you for president because you are a woman. I will vote for you because of your experience, intelligence and because I feel you truly want to help this country. The fact that you are a woman...is a bonus. Oh, and I'm fairly certain my husband, son, and nephew will be voting for you, also. Good Luck!  

-Julie L. from Fairmont

And then there's an 11 year-old boy in Kentucky who sold everything dear to him to raise money for Hillary's historic run for the White House - including his bike.  This child has given up so much to help Hillary continue her fight to help us.  I want you to meet Dalton Hatfield - one remarkable kid who's behind Hillary 1000%.

11-year-old gives $440 to Clinton campaign

When Hatfield presented former President Bill Clinton with a check for $440 after Friday's rally at the Williamson Fire Station, the man who was once the leader of the free world seemed to nearly come to tears.

"You sold your bike to get this?" Clinton asked the McAndrews, Ky. native.

The reply was "yes" and a whole lot more.

Hatfield feels so strongly that Hillary Clinton should be the next president he not only sold his bicycle, but video games and anything else he could find that "I could make money with" to donate to the former first lady's bid for the Democratic nomination.

snip

The result was a donation that for the most part left the former president, who is known as a great communicator, speechless.

He did, however, autograph a photo of himself and Hillary for the young man, and told him he was "going to call Hillary" right away and tell her about his generosity.

"She's going to be talking about you all over the nation," Clinton said.

snip

And the reason he's such a staunch Hillary supporter?

"I think she can do just like Bill Clinton did in the '90s and we can have a good economy," he says. "I think the majority of people around here are struggling due to the economy. And she can get us out of the war."

What's that old saying?  From the mouths of babes...?  This kid's a whole lot smarter than a lot of grown-ups, talking heads and so-called political experts you guys.  He sees what millions of us see in Hillary - a dedicated, determined, capable public servant who also happens to be our best and only shot at beating McCain come November.

If he can understand this basic point - give up so much of what's important to him to help make her victory a realty, then why in the hell can't those superdelegates out there see it?

Children see a whole lot more than we give them credit for guys.  We'd be wise to listen more and talk less when we're with them.

And to all you undeclared Superdelegates out there, take a look at what this child has done for his candidate.  He believes in Hillary just as millions of us out here in your districts and states believe in her.  We know she's got what it takes to beat McCain and lead our country.  She's a tried and true Democrat and a real champion.  So I'm asking you to think long and hard about more than just who'll offer you a cushy job in their administration - but about what's best for our nation.

Because this isn't about you - it's about us.

I'm certain that if you look past the spin and drown out the noise, you'll understand that the only choice is Hillary.  She needs you - we need her.  Please don't let us down.

In the meantime, if Dalton can give up so much to help our gal to victory, I want the rest of you to think of what more you can to do to help Hillary make it.  Think back to when you were 11, and the freedom your bike meant to you at that age.  This kid gave up his bike for the cause - a rare and noble sacrifice for any kid.  Can you give up your morning cup of Starbucks or Dunkin' Donuts coffee?  Or brown-bag it for lunch for the next few weeks and scrape together another $50 or $100 for the cause?

She needs us to back her up with more than just words if she's going to make it to the Oval Office.  We need her there - help her make it with another donation.

         

HELP HILLARY FIGHT ON - CONTRIBUTE NOW!



Display:


Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (2.00 / 14)

She's doing this for us gang.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:53:59 PM EST

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (2.00 / 11)

... and I'm doing this for my two beautfil kids.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ugh (1.16 / 6)

doesn't it bother you just a little bit they would deny this youngster a bike when they know his $400 would only give them a marginal pr bump.

These elitists have over a hundred million in the bank.

Maybe chelsea could give the little tyke one of the bikes she sure didn't do without when she was young.


by ameridad on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:12:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow - Way to Miss The Point (2.00 / 9)

First of all - nobody's denying this boy a thing.  If you'd bothered to read the diary or follow the link you'd know he did this on his own and with his mother's blessing.

Second of all... your comment attack on Chelsea paints a clear picture showing the difference between Hillary's supporters, and your candidates.  Thank you for making us look good.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow - Way to Miss The Point (none / 0)

Alegre, how was the comment an attack on Chelsea? The poster didn't say anything mean about her, just that she could donate him one of her old bikes.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It was an attack on decency, on kids, and hope (2.00 / 6)

It was an attack on hope. We'd think you would be against that.


by catfish1 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an attack on decency, on kids, and hope (none / 0)

You make a good point, but I was responding to a post that said it was an attack on Chelsea.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:06:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Bike (none / 0)

That kid with the bike is an inspirational story, no matter who you support.  

But the numbers tell us that it's the Obama campaign that has had far more grassroots contributions--much of it at very low $$ levels.  And I think that's one thing the SD's are looking at.  The Clinton campaign has had striking success raising small donations on line.  Unfortunately for them, the Obama campaign has had extraordinary success at it -- with smaller average donations.

I agree with Alegre that supers ought to care about this.  And if they do, it'll be another major reason to support Obama.


by deminva on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:43:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ugh (2.00 / 7)

I'd think your concern for the kid was sweet if I thought it was genuine.  His mother no doubt thinks this is a tremendous experience for him as any adult would, and will see to it that he gets a new bike.  Please don't strain yourself feeling for the child.


by Scotch on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Promise? (1.00 / 1)

Do you promise to get the little guy a bike?

Why not just thank him for the gesture but politely decline the money. Let him keep his bike.


by ameridad on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:37:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Promise? (2.00 / 3)

I'll leave that up to his mother.  The word was will.


by Scotch on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ignore Him (1.80 / 5)

Seriously - they're trolling.  Not worth the bother.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:46:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ignore Him (none / 0)

Endorsed.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:55:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ignore Him (2.00 / 2)

Yes.

Dalton rocks, and is a CLASSY kid.  Lovely kid.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:59:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ignore Him (none / 0)

That makes one side of the transaction that was classy.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:09:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why not just thank him for the gesture (2.00 / 3)

Because it was alot more than a mere 'gesture', and as such, being turned down by the Clinton's would have been to treat him like a child when he's clearly trying to transition to an adult. Or perhaps you're just jealous because you realize only a classy parent is capable of raising a classy child, 'dad'.


by phoenixdreamz on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:57:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Classy? (2.00 / 1)

This CHILD is being lead to believe Hillary's presidency is so important he needs to give up all his toys.

He must then be terribly afraid of an Obama presidency.

You think that is cute?


by ameridad on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:29:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Classy? (2.00 / 3)

Many adults are "terribly afraid" of an Obama presidency. Just ask one of the 15 million not covered by his health insurance plan.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:47:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Classy? (2.00 / 1)

I see this a lot here.  I know that there is no mandate for adults in Obama's plan, but could you elaborate on how any of the "15 million" would not be covered if they did not want to be?  


by BlueInBoston on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:39:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Classy? (2.00 / 1)

She can't.  She just makes shit up.  It's her M.O.  Learned it from her candidate.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:11:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Classy? (2.00 / 1)

Oh, they'll want to be covered alright. The first trip to the emergency room oughta do it.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:24:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oy (2.00 / 2)

You assume his parents led him to do this, he didn't give up all his toys, and it's grossly cynical to conclude that his selfless act is rooted in terrible fear.

But thanks for responding. It sure explains alot.


by phoenixdreamz on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:01:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Rejecting gifts is rude (2.00 / 4)

Yes, even to a kid. Especially to a kid who did this. It would be equivalent to saying you are just a little kid, you don't matter.


by catfish1 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:06:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

he is just a kid (none / 0)

He is eleven.

It is pathetic this kid thought Hillary was so desperate for the money in the first place.


by ameridad on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:27:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They must not pay you enough (2.00 / 1)

to post these comments. They bear a half-effort phone-it-in quality.


by catfish1 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:37:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

effort proportional to (none / 0)

remaining relevance. It's all gravy at this point anyway.


by ameridad on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:16:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Promise? (none / 0)

Yes, shame him for being too poor to make a "meaningful" contribution.

Oh, the hope and unity.


by redwagon on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:15:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ugh (2.00 / 2)

Don't be jealous because at 11, Dalton is far classier and more liberated than you!

The story warmed my heart to no end, and seeing that Dalton is a boy selling his bike to help Hillary become the first woman president was just icing on the cake.  There is lots of hope for him and his generation.  

This kid rocks, and has a fantastic mother to boot.  His Mom said, "Sure, go for it", and they all went to meet Bill Clinton.  In one of articles, Dalton is quoted saying that on a scale of 1-10, this day was a '12' for him.  He was ecstatic.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:05:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ugh (none / 0)

Mark Penn will be grateful for the money.  She still won't get the nomination.  Should have advised the kid to keep his bike.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:15:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ugh (2.00 / 1)

that's so sick. How humiliating that would be, to refuse it and tell him to buy a bike?  How patronizing.  The kid deserves to be part of her campaign and to enjoy her success. When she wins he'll know it was partly do to him. We'll all feel that way, her supporters, we're doing our best to let people know what a great candidate she is.  She's gracious, she would never humiliate someone like that, even if she thought it was a very big gesture from a very small boy. By the way, she's nice to everybody, she has empathy for others, she knows how to respect children, even if they can't yet vote.  


by anna shane on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:30:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (2.00 / 1)

So is he:


by Cheebs on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:43:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (2.00 / 3)

What an adorable kid!

I don't know how he does it. If I had a little girl that young and sweet there's no way in hell I could spend nearly 2 years on the campaign trail.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:48:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

Well, that's why he takes days off now and then.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:50:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

Few and far between. I'm so glad Michelle stayed in Chicago when Obama joined the Senate.


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:56:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (2.00 / 2)

his kids are cute. Did you see his video christmas card?  they're a photo op ready to happen.   I'd love to see them Dick Cheney's house, and then in 8 years in the white house. I'll be they all become close friends, it's always like that, it isn't personal, but they have to duke it out to find out which one holds up best.  


by anna shane on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:32:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

indeed (2.00 / 1)

Like millions of working class Americans that see nearly none of their children's growing years because they work insane hours trying to move their families forward, Obama understands the struggle and hours one needs to spend making peoples lives better.

His children, and ours, will thank him for it.


by ameridad on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: indeed (2.00 / 3)

Don't count on it. My neighbor's kid said, "Dad, why were you so self-absorbed with greed, fame and fortune that you totally missed the few years I was home growing up?"


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hmm (none / 0)

sounds like your neighbor had messed up priorities.

Good thing Obama has higher goals.


by ameridad on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

then there are the kids who run away (none / 0)

from home, and break their parent's hearts!


by internetstar on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:49:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Just like Chelsea eh (none / 0)

Just asking since Bill was younger than Obama when he took office and since Hillary was a rainmaker at the Rose Law Firm.

Don't be moronic.


by Regenman on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:24:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: indeed (none / 0)

You are a relentless sour persimmon.


by deminva on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:47:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama downer comments (2.00 / 2)

do not belong in the lovely story of this 11-year-old kid.


by catfish1 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:07:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: indeed (2.00 / 1)

please just go away.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:07:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

He's doing it for her.  It is amazing though.  I couldn't spend very long away from my toddlers.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:17:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for the diary, alegre. You are one (2.00 / 4)

tireless individual. There is another, however, who is truly remarkable when it comes to resilience and perserverance. And we won't let her down.

You know, the cacaphony of calls for Hillary to drop out, the voices from Obama Nation telling us, "she can't win," or "Obama is now the nominee," well, their actions and their words betray their fears.  


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:13:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the diary, alegre. You are one (none / 0)

I never said that Clinton should drop out. And Obama won't clinch the nomination until after the KY and OR primaries.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:17:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is your problem right here: (2.00 / 1)

Obama won't clinch the nomination until after the KY and OR primaries

Actually, NO ONE will "clinch" the nomination until the convention. It can be repeated a million zillion times, but it doesn't make it so.


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:28:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is your problem right here: (none / 0)

He will clinch it just as every other nominee in that position has -- and as every other nominee in that position has announced.

The "they don't vote until the convention" is true in the way that "the November election doesn't mean anything because the electors don't vote until January" is.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:31:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is your problem right here: (2.00 / 1)

NO!

He can clinch it by taking 2209 delegates, and preferably without superdelegates (who can change their minds, and their vote is only final at the convention.)

So, bring 2209 pledged delegates and the nomination is yours.  

Any other thing, however cleverly disguised, is asking Hillary to concede when she is running a close race.  She won't, so deal with it.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:11:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How would you handle MI and FLA (none / 0)

which is what the 2209 number references?


peace out
by eyeball on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:21:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How would you handle MI and FLA (2.00 / 1)

2209 makes the resolution of MI and FL irrelevant.  

The number could be between 2025 and 2209.  The first indication is the meeting of RBC on May31st.  Even then, the states can take their challenge all the way to the convention.  

I am saying that if a candidate garners 2209 delegates, s/he has clinched the nomination.  The have the majority of the delegates under any circumstances.  That's the ONLY time a candidate can say that s/he has clinched the nomination.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:43:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not without 2209 votes! (2.00 / 3)

No one can be named the nominee of the party without  half plus one of the delegates credentialed and seated at the convention.

Since the credentialing process is not yet complete, the only way one can be the nominee before the convention is to have half plus one of the maximum number possible for the convention or to drive out all of the competition to concede.

That number is 2209.  Any number short of that is illegitimate and so is any nominee who claims to have won with less.  Any media outlet that opts to reinforce such a fraudulent claim is interferring with the election process.

I would think that anyone with any political instincts would know from the getgo that we don't like coronations in this country, no matter who does it and who bows down.  It doesn't mean we can't be lied to , manipulated and fooled.  But when we find out we don't like it.

 It's an American value to be self determining and when we are in touch with our better selves, we value hard work, earning your way, telling it straight, standing up for the voiceless, playing fair and not letting men gang up on a woman.

In more and more parts of the country people are coming to feel that those values are being trashed by the Obama campaign and the media enabling it.  Commenters from Pennsylvania, for instance are asserting today that more voters are for Hillary now that on primary day because of the Obama forces. In the last few days dozens of long time Democratic activists have commented that they have concluded the process of re-registering as Independents.

If we can keep looking at the information on how Hillary actually did with different demographics that the conventional wisdom and lazy media say Obama rules, we see very active movement in her direction, especially with young people, white men and others Obama used to win.

Why is he unable to wait, even a few weeks before he does his most unseemly self-coronation?  What difference will a couple of weeks make, or a couple of months, for that matter?

I think he is afraid...afraid of what will come out soon...afraid of the changing numbers with voters losing interest in him...afraid tha Hillary's support among voters is growing and a drop in his own fundraising..afraid of the trials in Chicago...and tired of doing the work of actually winning the nomination so he is just going to take it.  Unless we stop him.

And we do that by raising up information and research and putting out to the press and the net and the superdelegates and potential voters. We have to stay on the press and the party leaders to demand accuracy, fairness and some education about what is really happening. And we find a way to get the money flowing for Hillary and she'll do the rest.

He did much less well in the Philly suburbs and getting the numbers of young and Black voters to come out to vote that were anticipated.  If we were doing this analysis and getting it out, we could help the superdelegates see where their self interests really are.

And don't think Hillary as the VP is the answer.  Most of the people who admire and support her can imagine how crushing such a move could be to her.  I have seen a lot of references to "9-5" type exploitation.

He has shown himself to be a user who doesn't value friends and associates and who doesn't like to contribute or work hard for what he gains.

 Besides read the Republican magazines and journals.  They are so ready for him.  His time in Chicago that we don't care to explore is something they are getting very familiar with.  That's what is going to take him down and Hillary will get stained from standing too close.


by itsadryheat on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:03:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Too bad Hillary is losing Pledged Delegate now. (none / 0)

Not a super, she pushed the idea that pledged delegates  could flip.  And one of hers just made it to the liferaft.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:25:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wrong in CA (none / 0)

If you ran the primary now, Hillary would not get 75% of the Asian American vote.  My particular age-group and the one below us are working hard to overcome the 1st generation perceptions towards blacks.  It won't be 75% Asian votes to Hillary if we did the election this week in CA.


by Regenman on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:26:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the diary, alegre. You are one (2.00 / 2)

no one's talking about you, it's his surrogates, his campaign. he stays above it and he's all, let the little lady say as long as she likes, I've won already anyway.'  It's a bluff of course, he knows time is not on his side.  


by anna shane on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:34:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the diary, alegre. You are one (none / 0)

He only needs 17% of the remaining vote and he has clinched the majority of the delegates.

And Hillary just had one of her Pledged Delegates change to Obama.   Being able to have 1 million people working for your campaign in November improves your electability alot.  It also helps the rest of the Democrats with GOTV.

Unless something major happens to him, he has this won.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:33:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the diary, alegre. You are one (none / 0)

That's been the rebuttal ever since those of us who understand mathematics starting pointing out that it was over back in February.  

Guess what.  Everything that has happened since then has supported the conclusions of the "math" proponents.  Say that it betrays our fears all you want.  That data is strongly to the contrary.  

His lead just keeps growing and the pool of delegates, both super and pledged, that remains just keeps shrinking.  If Obama loses WV, KY, and PR all by 65% - 35% margins and then can only manage to tie her in the other 3 remaining contests she will still need 75% of the remaining superdelegates in order to get the nomination.  

Tomorrow when he gets more superdelegates than her, just like he has every day since N.C., that number will jump up higher.  In fact, just like it did after Pennsylvania, if she doesn't win by a margin in WV (71%) that puts her on pace to catch up, she will be further from nomination as she will have to make up the pace elsewhere.

What d'ya figure those numbers do when he wins Oregon by 12%?

It IS over.

Y'all keep paying Mark Penn with little kids' bike money though.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:29:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks Alegre for reminding us of the (2.00 / 11)

belief millions have in Hillary.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:56:21 PM EST

Re: Thanks Alegre for reminding us of the (2.00 / 7)

We are NOT alone NH.  Much as other bloggers would have us believe there are millions of us all around this land who back Hillary and need her in the Oval Office.

She's not in this to move up in rank or gain a better job - she's in this for us.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:05:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought she missed living in the WH (2.00 / 2)


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:10:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought she missed living in the WH (2.00 / 1)

LOL! :)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:18:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought she missed living in the WH (none / 0)

I think she's certainly unhappy about what the new owners did with the place.

Especially the guy who occupied her old office :D


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:57:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HRC in the White House (2.00 / 1)

Yep, the only "W" in the White House needs to be a woman.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:07:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HRC in the White House (none / 0)

sexist


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:31:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought she missed living in the WH (none / 0)

she's not alone, all of us want him out out out. Did you notice the media hardly ever covers him these days, it's like he's already gone, except he isn't.   We have to win this one, another four years of pug rule will sink us even further. there is a big enough mess to clean up already.  


by anna shane on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:37:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought she missed living in the WH (none / 0)

exactly why the McCain surrogate should get out of the way.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:32:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought she missed living in the WH (none / 0)

what's that supposed to mean?  I hope you don't mean Hillary, she's going to beat him in November, meet him in September and beat him n November.  


by anna shane on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:41:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Inspiring. (2.00 / 4)

I can't wait till she blows McCain out of the water in November, after the Dem party realizes how much better in the electoral college she'll do than Obama.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Mon May 12, 2008 at 09:58:18 PM EST

Re: Inspiring. (1.66 / 3)

Now that's math!


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (2.00 / 2)

here's MATH; <270 electoral votes=LOSS. >270 electoral votes=WIN. political correctness is clouding the judgment to decide who will better reach it, with Obama supporters. Lest I remind you the general electorate, not the liberal Democrat primary has far fewer blacks, and is more conservative.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

I think http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ has accurate numbers - what do you think of them?


by Falsehood on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:58:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

Hey falsehood,

Not to give you grief but I asked about the electorial college count mentioned here on myDD. These numbers show that, at this time, in a match up between Sen. Obama and Sen McCain? Sen. McCain will win.  If Sen. Clinton runs against Sen. McCain? Sen. Clinton wins.
That's in the electorial college.

I didn't make this up and I asked specifically about these numbers in an earlier diary.

Kind of difficult to look past these numbers.

(the maps on either side of the myDD main page. Top right and left hand corners.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

mydd's numbers are cherry picked.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:18:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

cherry picked to follow the electoral college and how they poll in each state?  Hard to go wrong that way.  I'm sure things will change, that's why we need to watch him to see if he gets some momentum back.  Indiana must have hurt.  But, he's still gaming, pretending he's won and he'll crown himself, acting like she's silly. But he's played this one before, several times. IF he wants it he's going to have to win over her demographics.  It'll be interesting to watch?  


by anna shane on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:40:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

Hey ya'll.

How goes it.

One of the reasons why a poster said they didn't trust these numbers was that they didn't know where the raw data came from and what the criteria was for evaluating them.

You've begun answer that question.

The data and criteria might have been "cherry picked" to reflect the decision making process of the electorial college. Seems prudent since it is the electorial college that is highly involved in the selection process. We could pick data and criteria that reflects the decision making process of used car dealers in Cleveland but that might not have much to do with the selection process. Unless of course they have a good track record for picking presidents. I didn't just say that last to be a jerk. There is a parallel to this example for the discussion.

Do you know what the criteria is for mydd's electorial college map. Would you be more specific.  I have a diary entry which asks specifically about the mydd electorial college maps would you answer there as well as here?

Thanks.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:21:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

good question, I've assumed it's the way each state polls, as opposed to all states at the same time.  How're you too?  Isn't this fun?  


by anna shane on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

I'm okay for an old dawg whose been accused of not having a clue about what a feminist is. That lady on your diary didn't like me or you either. She was down right rude. To old folks. My family has been laughing about that. And I hoped that with age comes wisdom. Here I was told with my age came wrinkles and stupidity. :D

So let's find out. About this criteria.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:34:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

The Reason I don't like the MyDD numbers is twofold:

I don't know where they come from, and the don't show me how close a state is. Also, Poblano's site has the history of polls.


by Falsehood on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:28:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

Hey ya Falsehood,

Okay. Let's find out where those numbers come from.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:11:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (2.00 / 1)

Actually these number appear more accurate:


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:21:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

How well was Hillary polling before the primary?

What was it?

30 points?

Hillary supporters more than anybody should know that polls
don't mean much. The polls have really panned out for her swell.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:32:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Logic my friend (none / 0)

Don't try it here.  People have conveniently forgotten the poll numbers from 2007 and how Clinton was suppose to slam dunk 2008.

She ran a great opportunity into the ground with a lousy campaign.  You have to take responsibility for your mistakes.  She failed to have an sort of organization for the caucus states.  That's not Obama's fault that just poor leadership.  It's what we blame Bush for now.


by Regenman on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:33:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Political correctness? (none / 0)

And Hillary boosters call Obama supporters condescending.


peace out
by eyeball on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:22:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

if you're into making shit up.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:33:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (2.00 / 5)

Well if you go by those maps up on the front page, she's clearly the stronger candidate against McCain.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:08:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (1.66 / 3)

YUP.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:12:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

Not taking sides on one candidate or the other. I'm still deciding. But that is indeed what those maps on the main page do say.

Says in a matchup between Sen. Clinton and Sen. McCain? Sen. Clinton wins the electorial college.

In a Sen. Obama v. McCain matchup? Sen. Obama loses the electorial college.

Both seem to have improved at the same rate but advantage is still to Sen. Clinton.

I know. I asked.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:18:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

Those maps have cherry picked results.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:32:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

None of them ask why this is the only place were you can find that electoral map.  The rest of the reality based community doesn't have it close to that way.

Making shit up and then clinging to it doesn't avert reality.  It's pathetic really.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:35:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

Hello Locke

You and I haven't crossed paths in quite a bit.

Do you know what criteria was used to determine the results of the MyDD Map?

Just saying you don't care for the results is not really going to sway minds here is it. Perhaps if you listed and compared the criteria of how the mydd maps were determined vs. the criteria of maps who you favor?
What are the criteria used by the electorial college for making up their minds in the presidential election process?

I actually posted a diary entry asking about these maps. I'm interested in how all this works.

Look forward to your reasoned response.

12 dogs.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:33:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

I'll bet that's what you thought too when the primary started.


Everybody loves the Engels.
by spacemanspiff on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:33:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inspiring. (none / 0)

True.  And if you go by Jerome Armstrong, Hillary Clinton has won in every single state.

The predictions of the election show very little difference between Hillary's likely performance and Obama's.  Sorry you don't believe it, but it's true.

Look at Poblano's 358 blog, which goes state by state and finds Obama doing a bit better than Hillary.  Look at bigtentdemocrat on talkleft - a very, very pro-Hillary blog - and see an estimate showing Hillary doing a hair better than Obama.  Look at theatlantic.com, Marc Ambinder - another pro-Hillary blogger, showing Obama with a clear path to the nomination.

And, if you don't like any of those, just look at every head-to-head matchup between Obama and McCain.  Obama does at least as well in these matchups as Clinton does.

So, Jerome found one outfit that shows HRC doing much better than Obama.  Big, big surprise.


by TL on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:07:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (2.00 / 1)

Thank you, Alegre. I'm sure you're right, just as I would hope you will acknowledge that Obama is also running hard because he hears from voters who support him and because he wants to make this country better for all.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:01:44 PM EST

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

Not really, epsecially if you're one of the 15 MILLION he's leaving out of his health care plan. Or if you're a woman in Illinois facing a reproductive health issue, when he voted "present" instead of protecting your rights. Then there's that damn Cheney energy bill he voted for, when gas prices are sky high. That doesn't sound like a better country to most of us progressives.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:27:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

Still don't get the present vote?
"We worked on the 'present' vote strategy with Obama," said Pam Sutherland, chief lobbyist for the Illinois branch of Planned Parenthood, an abortion rights group. "He was willing to vote 'no', and was always going to be a 'no' vote for us."

Sutherland said Planned Parenthood calculated that a 'present' vote by Obama would encourage other senators to cast a similar vote, rather than voting for the legislation. "They were worried about direct mail pieces against them. The more senators voted present, the harder it was to mount an issues campaign against the senator."
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec ker/2008/02/obamas_voting_record_on_abor ti_1.html

And health care? Obama doesn't leave anyone out. Your figure is the number that would decide not to buy insurance and most policy experts think the number would be about the same under Clinton's mandate unless she docked wages, in which case, people would be in grave financial trouble.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 12, 2008 at 11:35:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

How can any progressive vote for some one who voted to authorize the use of military force in Iraq.

That is why I support Obama. I am a vietnam veteran and knows what war is about and it is not pretty,

Of course Clinton doesn't have to worry for none of her family has to go to war.


by BDM on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:23:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

Abortion: From Illinois National Organization for Women:

Obama Was Present, But He Was Not There On Issues That Mattered to Illinois Women

During Senator Obama's 2004 senate campaign, the Illinois NOW PAC did not recommend the endorsement of Obama for U.S. Senate because he refused to stand up for a woman's right to choose and repeatedly voted `present' on important legislation.

As a State Senator, Barack Obama voted `present' on seven abortion bills, including a ban on 'partial birth abortion,' two parental notification laws and three 'born alive' bills.  In each case, the right vote was clear, but Senator Obama chose political cover over standing and fighting for his convictions.

"When we needed someone to take a stand, Senator Obama took a pass," said Grabenhofer. "He wasn't there for us then and we don't expect him to be now."

Healthcare: From Factcheck.org:

Clinton said that Obama's health care plan would leave 15 million Americans without insurance, while her plan provided universal coverage. Obama countered that his proposal would cover everyone in the country. Clinton's plan will likely cover more people than Obama's, but it's doubtful the difference between their very similar proposals would be as high as the figure Clinton cites.

Update: Three months after we wrote this article, we revisited this issue and found that health care experts agreed that the difference between the two plans could be as high as Clinton claimed, if not higher.

BDM on Iraq War: Your candidate authorized the funding of the war in Iraq, and didn't lift a finger to protest the war, write letters, lead protests, etc. Nada.  The issue is who has the knowledge and experience to get us out, and that clearly is HRC.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:41:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

KnowVox has been presented with this info repeatedly and doesn't care because KnowVox lies... constantly.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:40:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

Hello KV?? You wanna comment on the info
politicsmatter just confronted you with? Or will it be defening silence?
by standd on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:27:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

crickets


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:43:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

Sorry, but I'm not usually awake between 1-5 AM to be at your beck and call.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:27:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

4,000 confirmed deaths on her head (none / 0)

For voting for the war, which 22 Democratic senators with integrity voted against.

Don't forget what your messiah did.


by Regenman on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:35:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 4,000 confirmed deaths on her head (none / 0)

wasn't bright enough to learn either.  Made the same dumb vote where Iran is concerned and we're about to get another war to show for it.  Wizz bang job by the McCain surrogate!


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:42:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (2.00 / 4)

Your diaries always bring a smile to my face.


by DamnYankees on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:03:12 PM EST

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (2.00 / 4)

I'm glad - keep on smiling =)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey alegre, (none / 0)

I'm an Obama supporter, but I wanted to thank you for writing a POSITIVE diary in support of your candidate.  There's too much trash flying from both sides right now....

And I think the kid selling his bike is inspiring.  I remember sending part of my allowance to support a couple of missionaries from our church, because I believed they were doing something important.  I'm sure my few dollars didn't go far, but that's not the point -- it helped me grow into an engaged responsible citizen.

peace,
lilnev


by lilnev on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:10:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (2.00 / 1)

ditto.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:26:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

mine too.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:42:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (none / 0)

I'm waiting for the book deals, and then perhaps I'll know.

Unfortunately, the way the campaign has been run, I'm now mystified about her motives. I used to think she was a liberal, hemmed in by a republican press and media, and then republican majorities in the house. But now, I frankly have no clue what she really believes in.

Blame Penn, blame triangulation, blame the media, or even some diarists here (not you necessarily alegre) who change tune and talking point and principles according to which primary demographic they are targeting.

Sorry. Not trying to put a sour note in a positive diary. I really used to love the Clintons. Now, not so much.  


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Mon May 12, 2008 at 10:07:29 PM EST

Re: Want to Know What Keeps Her Going? (2.00 / 5)

If you don't know what she's fighting for - what she believs in then I would submit that you just haven't been paying attention.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by