Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements

Right, it's time we cleared up a few things here guys.  Yeah sure - after 12 years and probably tens of thousands of speaking engagements and press conferences, and as sleep-deprived as I'm sure she must be these days - Hillary misspoke at an event on the 17th and for that people have been jumping down her throat.

She said they went into a camp under sniper fire but as she's said on lots of occasions before - the sniper fire was in the nearby hills and the Army had snipers around the air field as she landed for protection.  But let's get one thing clear here boys & girls - she was flying into a combat zone.  Something that I'm pretty sure her rival for this nomination has ever done and (I'm pretty sure) never will do any time soon.

Take a look at what CBS reported at the time...

Now some of Hillary's critics are claiming this wasn't a case of her getting it wrong - that she'd been reading from a prepared text so that proves this was done on purpose.  They point to this page as proof but if you'll follow that link you'll see that these were her remarks as delivered.  The part about Bosnia was NOT in her prepared remarks that day.

Now I've done a little digging and found a few things on the Net.  Check it out...

Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton's chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her "vivid recollections" of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below:

I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17-- a plane capable of steep ascents and descents -- precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

Source

And this from the FactHub...

Hillary recently misspoke about her trip to Bosnia. She accurately describes the trip in her book, Living History:

'Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac...' "Security conditions were constantly changing in the former Yugoslavia, and they had recently deteriorated again. Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac with local children, though we did have time to meet them and their teachers and to learn how hard they had worked during the war to continue classes in any safe spot they could find. ... We were then off to the fortified American base at Tuzla, where over two thousand American, Russian, Canadian, British, and Polish soldiers were encamped in a large tent city." [Living History, p. 343]

Contemporaneous news accounts confirm that Hillary's trip to Bosnia was a dangerous situation:

Hillary's trip to Bosnia marked the first time since Eleanor Roosevelt that a first lady traveled to a potential combat zone. Accompanied by singer-songwriter Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, Mrs. Clinton traveled to this northwestern Bosnian town on a morale-boosting tour for the 18,500 U.S. troops participating in the NATO-led peacemaking operation. She heard a poem of peace from a Bosnian girl and praised U.S. troops for 'showing what American leadership is.'...This trip to Bosnia marks the first time since Roosevelt that a first lady has voyaged to a potential combat zone. During World War II, Roosevelt toured the devastated streets of London and the southwestern Pacific, bringing cheer to U.S. troops. [Washington Post, 3/26/96]

Hillary was 'protected by sharpshooters' in a 'military zone' when she visited troops in Bosnia. "Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal 'thank you, thank you, thank you' to U.S. troops. 'They're making a difference,' the first lady said of the 18,500 Americans working as peacekeepers in Bosnia. Mrs. Clinton became the first presidential spouse since Eleanor Roosevelt to make such an extensive trip into what can be considered a hostile area, though others have visited hot spots..." [Charleston Gazette, 3/26/96]

And a comment left in an open thread at TalkLeft on Sunday - apparently, Sinbad (the guy who set all this off) wasn't on the entire trip with Senator Clinton - just part of it...

I did some research on Lexis Nexis last night (5.00 / 6) (#131)
by standingup on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 04:45:19 PM EST

The trip she made to Bosnia was on March 25, 1996.  I can't find anything in the press reports that supports the exact account that Hillary has recollected but Sinbad's account might be underscoring the risk too.  She did visit two outposts outside of the base camp in Tuzla without the celebrities there for the USO tour.  

Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank you" to U.S. troops.
...
But this was a day of celebration and celebrities - a day for the U.S. troops helping to uphold the Bosnian peace accord. Mrs. Clinton hosted a USO show with comedian Sinbad and singer Sheryl Crow and briefly addressed the gathering.
...
But the highlight of her trip were visits to two fortified posts outside the U.S. base in Tuzla. Even President Clinton, restricted to the base by bad weather in January, did not see as much of this war-wracked region as Mrs. Clinton did Monday.
...
Riflemen rushed to the brush line as the helicopter landed and surrounded her as she walked into the post. Located in a "separation zone," the U.S. outpost nestles between two tree lines. Just months ago, one was Serbian territory, the other Bosnian.

Security was tight - fighter jets accompanied her C-17 cargo plane to Tuzla - but officials said the first lady took no extraordinary risks on the trip.

Lexis - By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press, March 25, 1996

Another report:

THE First Lady of the United States, Hillary Clinton, visited her country's troops at their fortified outposts in north-eastern Bosnia today and said their peacekeeping work was "extraordinary to behold".

Mrs Clinton's helicopter flight to Camp Alicia, home of a mechanised infantry outfit and a combat engineer batallion 15 miles east of Tuzla, took her over burned out villages and farm houses whose roofs had been blown off in the fierce fighting before last December's Paris peace agreement ended the 43 -month-old war in Bosnia.

A machine gun emplacement guarded the entrance of the outposts and marked Bosnian minefields were visible outside its perimeter.
...
After lunch with the troops in a makeshift dining hall surrounded by sandbags, she flew on to Camp Bedrock south of Tuzla to visit an army field hospital.

Mrs Clinton, who later returned to Tuzla for a show starring singer Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, said she was "amazed at how much has been accomplished in such a short period of time" by US troops in Bosnia.

Source - Lexis - The Herald (Glasgow), March 26, 1996

And she did spend some time in the cockpit ;-)

So it was probably no accident that the C-17 pilot was a woman, Capt. Cheryl Beineke of Ohio. She is among just four female C-17 pilots out of about 100 in the Air Force.

"I'm loving every minute of this," the pilot said after Mrs. Clinton spent several minutes in the cockpit.

Source - Lexis - By RON FOURNIER, AP International, March 25, 1996

Ok now why don't we take a look at some of the instances where St. Obama's misspoken, eh?

Just Embellished Words: Senator Obama's Record of Exaggerations & Misstatements

Once again, the Obama campaign is getting caught saying one thing while doing another. They are personally attacking Hillary even though Sen. Obama has been found mispeaking and embellishing facts about himself more than ten times in recent months. Senator Obama's campaign is based on words -not a record of deeds - and if those words aren't backed up by facts, there's not much else left.

"Senator Obama has called himself a constitutional professor, claimed credit for passing legislation that never left committee, and apparently inflated his role as a community organizer among other issues. When it comes to his record, just words won't do. Senator Obama will have to use facts as well," Clinton spokesman Phil Singer said.

Sen. Obama consistently and falsely claims that he was a law professor. The Sun-Times reported that, "Several direct-mail pieces issued for Obama's primary [Senate] campaign said he was a law professor at the University of Chicago. He is not. He is a senior lecturer (now on leave) at the school. In academia, there is a vast difference between the two titles. Details matter." In academia, there's a significant difference: professors have tenure while lecturers do not. [Hotline Blog, 4/9/07; Chicago Sun-Times, 8/8/04]

Obama claimed credit for nuclear leak legislation that never passed. "Obama scolded Exelon and federal regulators for inaction and introduced a bill to require all plant owners to notify state and local authorities immediately of even small leaks. He has boasted of it on the campaign trail, telling a crowd in Iowa in December that it was 'the only nuclear legislation that I've passed.' 'I just did that last year,' he said, to murmurs of approval. A close look at the path his legislation took tells a very different story. While he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it, Mr. Obama eventually rewrote it to reflect changes sought by Senate Republicans, Exelon and nuclear regulators. The new bill removed language mandating prompt reporting and simply offered guidance to regulators, whom it charged with addressing the issue of unreported leaks. Those revisions propelled the bill through a crucial committee. But, contrary to Mr. Obama's comments in Iowa, it ultimately died amid parliamentary wrangling in the full Senate." [New York Times, 2/2/08]

Obama misspoke about his being conceived because of Selma. "Mr. Obama relayed a story of how his Kenyan father and his Kansan mother fell in love because of the tumult of Selma, but he was born in 1961, four years before the confrontation at Selma took place. When asked later, Mr. Obama clarified himself, saying: 'I meant the whole civil rights movement.'" [New York Times, 3/5/07]

LA Times: Fellow organizers say Sen. Obama took too much credit for his community organizing efforts. "As the 24-year-old mentor to public housing residents, Obama says he initiated and led efforts that thrust Altgeld's asbestos problem into the headlines, pushing city officials to call hearings and a reluctant housing authority to start a cleanup. But others tell the story much differently. They say Obama did not play the singular role in the asbestos episode that he portrays in the best-selling memoir 'Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance.' Credit for pushing officials to deal with the cancer-causing substance, according to interviews and news accounts from that period, also goes to a well-known preexisting group at Altgeld Gardens and to a local newspaper called the Chicago Reporter. Obama does not mention either one in his book." [Los Angeles Times, 2/19/07]

Chicago Tribune: Obama's assertion that nobody had indications Rezko was engaging in wrongdoing 'strains credulity.' "...Obama has been too self-exculpatory. His assertion in network TV interviews last week that nobody had indications Rezko was engaging in wrongdoing strains credulity: Tribune stories linked Rezko to questionable fundraising for Gov. Rod Blagojevich in 2004 -- more than a year before the adjacent home and property purchases by the Obamas and the Rezkos." [Chicago Tribune editorial, 1/27/08]

Obama was forced to revise his assertion that lobbyists 'won't work in my White House.' "White House hopeful Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) was forced to revise a critical stump line of his on Saturday -- a flat declaration that lobbyists 'won't work in my White House' after it turned out his own written plan says they could, with some restrictions... After being challenged on the accuracy of what he has been saying -- in contrast to his written pledge -- at a news conference Saturday in Waterloo, Obama immediately softened what had been his hard line in his next stump speech." [Chicago Sun-Times, 12/16/07]

FactCheck.org: 'Selective, embellished and out-of-context quotes from newspapers pump up Obama's health plan.' "Obama's ad touting his health care plan quotes phrases from newspaper articles and an editorial, but makes them sound more laudatory and authoritative than they actually are. It attributes to The Washington Post a line saying Obama's plan would save families about $2,500. But the Post was citing the estimate of the Obama campaign and didn't analyze the purported savings independently. It claims that "experts" say Obama's plan is "the best." "Experts" turn out to be editorial writers at the Iowa City Press-Citizen - who, for all their talents, aren't actual experts in the field. It quotes yet another newspaper saying Obama's plan "guarantees coverage for all Americans," neglecting to mention that, as the article makes clear, it's only Clinton's and Edwards' plans that would require coverage for everyone, while Obama's would allow individuals to buy in if they wanted to." [FactCheck.org, 1/3/08]

Sen. Obama said 'I passed a law that put Illinois on a path to universal coverage,' but Obama health care legislation merely set up a task force. "As a state senator, I brought Republicans and Democrats together to pass legislation insuring 20,000 more children. And 65,000 more adults received health care...And I passed a law that put Illinois on a path to universal coverage." The State Journal-Register reported in 2004 that "The [Illinois State] Senate squeaked out a controversial bill along party lines Wednesday to create a task force to study health-care reform in Illinois. [...] In its original form, the bill required the state to offer universal health care by 2007. That put a 'cloud' over the legislation, said Sen. Dale Righter, R-Mattoon. Under the latest version, the 29-member task force would hold at least five public hearings next year." [Obama Health Care speech, 5/29/07; State Journal-Register, 5/20/04]

ABC News: 'Obama...seemed to exaggerate the legislative progress he made' on ethics reform. "ABC News' Teddy Davis Reports: During Monday's Democratic presidential debate, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., seemed to exaggerate the legislative progress he has made on disclosure of "bundlers," those individuals who aggregate their influence with the candidate they support by collecting $2,300 checks from a wide network of wealthy friends and associates. When former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel alleged that Obama had 134 bundlers, Obama responded by telling Gravel that the reason he knows how many bundlers he has raising money for him is "because I helped push through a law this past session to disclose that." Earlier this year, Obama sponsored an amendment [sic] in the Senate requiring lobbyists to disclose the candidates for whom they bundle. Obama's amendment would not, however, require candidates to release the names of their bundlers. What's more, although Obama's amendment was agreed to in the Senate by unanimous consent, the measure never became law as Obama seemed to suggest. Gravel and the rest of the public know how many bundlers Obama has not because of a 'law' that the Illinois Democrat has 'pushed through' but because Obama voluntarily discloses that information." [ABC News, 7/23/07]

Obama drastically overstated Kansas tornado deaths during campaign appearance. "When Sen. Barack Obama exaggerated the death toll of the tornado in Greensburg, Kan, during his visit to Richmond yesterday, The Associated Press headline rapidly evolved from 'Obama visits former Confederate capital for fundraiser' to `Obama rips Bush on Iraq war at Richmond fundraiser' to 'Weary Obama criticizes Bush on Iraq, drastically overstates Kansas tornado death toll' to 'Obama drastically overstates Kansas tornado deaths during campaign appearance.' Drudge made it a banner, ensuring no reporter would miss it." [politico.com, 5/9/07]

Twelve instances... when oh WHEN will they start doling out Pinocchios for these, eh?

U P D A T E

Wow - all these comments - all this outrage over what Hillary said and yet not one WORD about the 12 times (see above) where Obama got it wrong!

I've gotta say gang - the silence is deafening!

Seriously - you've got outrage to spare here. Can't you find even a little outrage for all those times when Obama got it wrong? Misspoke? Embellished? Exaggerated?

Notice I didn't jump the gun here and accuse him of lying without proof here?

If you're as sick of the double standards as I am, and it's been a while since you last donated, check your wallet and see if you can spare a fiver for the cause eh?

DONATE NOW!

Thanks! ;o)


Display:


Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (1.95 / 23)

One freakin' misstatement and they're making this big a deal out of it?

Stack that up against BO's stuff - no contest.  No way in hell.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:46:28 PM EST

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (1.60 / 10)

It's not one misstatement. She told the same story four times.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 308/Sniper_fodder.html
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:58:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (1.88 / 9)

You listed the 3/17 speech fine.

The one after that wasn't the same comment - she said they moved a ceremony inside because of snipers and if you'd read my diary you'd know that she went on two separate trips without the celebs.  SO you don't know for a fact that she was wrong in that instance.

Your third example is video footage regarding the first instance on 3/17 - not a separate insident and again - you have no way of knowing whether she was talking about the main location of some of the outposts she visited.

As to the fourth case - again, this refers to her speech on 3/17.  Your link takes us to teh washington post fact checker post that started all of this dust-up.

Soooooooo your claim that this was said on four sep. occassions - NOT TRUE!

Nice try though.

(Didn't think I was going to follow your link - did you?)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:07:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

I linked to a story. I didn't list anything.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:21:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 7)

Yeah but here's the thing...

You claimed that the story proved she misspoke FOUR TIMES.

Not true.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:28:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (1.50 / 4)

The story says that she misspoke four times but, yes, you are right, it provided only two links.  
Don't worry, there will be a story soon with all four of them identified.  After all, CBS and other networks have found that she did tell the same false story four times.
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:49:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, Alegre was right. (1.75 / 4)

Can't wait to hear the "story" about all of Obama's mis-statements! LOL


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:05:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, Alegre was right. (none / 0)

Yes. Except:

1. That list is largely BS from the Clinton campaign.

2. Those are legislative exaggerations. This was Hillary Clinton claiming to run into sniper fire. There's a difference....politically...between lying about these two things.


by Sinbad Sinbad on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:33:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, Alegre was right. (2.00 / 1)

Sorry:

1. The source of documenting Obama's mis-statements is irrelevant. They're still lies.

2. Obama's "legislative" exaggerations are still whoppers. And frankly, grossly exaggerating your resume is grounds for firing at most respectable companies. Obama shouldn't be "hired."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:19:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Alegre is a Republican (none / 0)

How is quoting Hillary's book, and people working for Hillary proof that her account of what happend is accurate?


by munodi on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:51:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alegre is a Republican (2.00 / 0)

How is Al is a republican any kind of answer?  If you accept Mr. obama's talking point that she is 'deeply flawed' and 'will do anything to be elected' then you can pick and chose what to believe and what not to. But most people see a preponderance of evidence, consistency and very few 'examples' of her misstating anything and no example of her not self-correcting, and think Obama is being a creep. That's way some of her supporters say they'll have a hard time voting for him, he's not honest about her and he's clearly the negative one.  She speaks about issues and he speaks about her character. Well, I guess if you have little positive to run on, going into the gutter looks high minded?  


by anna shane on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 05:05:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, Alegre was right. (2.00 / 0)

Yes, there is a difference.  Lying about legislative accomplishments is worse than remembering an event inaccurately, but basically truthfully. Al Gore going to a disaster area with a FEMA guy, but he just named the wrong city, as I recall.  

Basically she went to a dangerous place wherever the snipers happened to be.  

But saying that you "stood up to powerful interests" to protect the people of Illinois from nuclear leaks was reported in the New York Times.  He said it to win the Iowa caucus.  It fit his image, but it was a big old easy lie.  

Whoever gets the nomination, they will be in for the "exaggerator" attacks by the press.  So we better get our McCain whoppers ready to lock and load.


Join the Feral Cats of Freedom Coughing Up Hairballs of Truth in the Montana Underbrush
by Feral Cat on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:20:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 4)

That's not what I said at all.

There are in fact three other links at ben smith's site.

One deals with an incedent that may or may not be the one Sinbad flew in to.  For all we know it could relate to one of her trips to those outposts in a chopper.

The other two deal directly with the first on the 17th.

But the fact remains - there are 12 similar incidents listed above where BO got it wrong.  So WHY can't I get you to comment on any of those?

I mean you're clearly worried about politicians who get it wrong or make mistakes.  So why all this outrage over Hillary but yet when it comes to BO...

CRICKETS.

Come on - just one or two comments re BO here.  Don't you have ANY concerns or problems with what's posted above????


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:40:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Do you really want me to repost my response to your multiple asking of the same question below?  It's not any different up there than it was when I posted it earlier down below.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:50:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 1)

But the fact remains - there are 12 similar incidents listed above where BO got it wrong.  So WHY can't I get you to comment on any of those?
The BO statements are a smokescreen obscuring the core issue.  Did HRC tell a lie/misspeak/exaggerate about her trip to Bosnia?  "Yeah, but he did it too." is not a valid defense, nor does it have any relevence whatsoever to the facts in HRC's case.

If your diary were truly about mistatements by politicians and cited examples of several candidates to support a hypothesis, objective reporting of BO incidents might be worthy of discussion (and if they weren't straight off HRC's website).  As it is, however, you're merely citing HRC spin about BO to justify/obscure the unresolved (and that's being generous) issue of HRC's truthfulness on the Bosnia trip.


by rb608 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:01:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 1)

An admirable attempt to change the subject!

I'll just take one of Senator Obama's "misstatements" -- that he referred to himself as a professor when he was only a lecturer.  

I spent a decade in a large research university as doctoral candidate, teaching assistant, and administrator.  As part of my administrative work, I managed lists of professors in all of our ten graduate schools.  "Lecturer" is a title related to someone's place in the academic hierarchy, akin to "Assistant Professor," "Associate Professor," or "Full Professor."  No one actually uses these titles when speaking about a professor, unless their specific focus is the academic hierarchy.  No one would ever refer to someone as "Assistant Professor Smith" or "Lecturer Obama," for that matter.  Certainly, the titles get used when the focus is on the person's place in the hierarchy, but it's not what people think of first -- unless they're focused on tenure or something like that. The simple way to think about is that, when professors talk about what they do, they call themselves "professor"; when they're focused on their seniority, they use titles like "lecturer" or "assistant professor."

In other words, all of Obama's students would have called him "Professor Obama."  When asked which professor taught a class, they would have said, "Professor Obama," rather than pointedly saying, "It's not a professor teaching the class.  It's Lecturer Obama."

Thus, there is absolutely no misstatement in Senator Obama's having referred to himself as a constitutional law professor.  If the follow-up question had been, "Were you tenure track?", he would have said, "No, I was a lecturer."

This whole "Obama called himself a professor when he was really just a lecturer business" business is silly.  Even if there were something to it, which there isn't, it's a pretty pathetic counterpart to Senator Clinton's false statements regarding Tuzla.


by deminva on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:14:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

This is the lead off "misstatement" from Obama?  That he called himself a "professor" when he was a "lecturer"?  Really?  

Pardon me while I piss my pants laughing.

When I taught as a lecturer I was introduced as "professor" by colleagues in classes as well as during faculty-only meetings where I was introduced to a colleague ("Jim, hey, I want you to meet our newest professor, Lars Thorwald.  Lars is a lecturer this semester in the new regulatory course...").

Ask a tenured professor whether he or she thinks it is a misstatement.  

Now ask a veteran whether telling a tall tale about ducking and running to a car without a greeting ceremony because you were taking sniper fire (Clinton: "That is what happened") is a misstatement.  Or if they care.

You will get too very different answers.

This diary is the worst sort of parsing and dissembling I have read in a very long time.  It's Clintonian.  


by LarsThorwald on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:35:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

er, two very different answers.  Pardon the typo.  I was...sleep deprived.  


by LarsThorwald on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:36:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Keeping the Record Straight (2.00 / 0)

I have an attorney in Pennsylvania.  When I was considering hiring him I asked what his qualifications were.  He listed being an "adjunct law professor" at Duchesne University, a perfectly correct title.

Later, in an e-mail to associates, copied to him, I referred to him as a "law professor". He was quick to correct me.  "I'm not a full professor.  I'm a lecturer."

An honorable man would leave no doubt as to what his actual status was.  My attorney certainly didn't, and he wasn't running for President.


by creeper1014 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:52:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keeping the Record Straight (none / 0)

Your attorney's two responses capture exactly what I'm talking about.  On a resume, an honorable person would be precise and write "Lecturer, University of Chicago School of Law."  But when you're talking about what you're doing, you don't say "I'm a constitutional law lecturer."  No one does--just as Lars says.

A simple way to think about the distinction is whether or not the word you're using should be capitalized.  Obama's title was "Lecturer," but his job was as a "constitutional law professor." In the same vein, I have a Ph.D. in English, so if anyone actually knew this, they might choose to refer to me as "Doctor Deminva," although I certainly don't work as a doctor.

As your attorney's response indicates, it's not uncommon for an adjunct professor to include the word adjunct when talking about what he or she does -- precisely because it's just an adjective added to the common word, i.e., professor.  

Bottom line: If you or anyone else can find any campus in the US where students say things like "Hey, who's the lecturer for that course?" or "Hi, Lecturer Jackson!", then you may have a case.  

Note, too, that as a state legislator, Senator Obama most likely had the title of Lecturer because he wasn't full-time faculty or because his legislative duties precluded his involvement in the sorts of things that tenure-track faculty do besides classroom teaching.  It wasn't that he couldn't get hired as an Assistant or Associate Professor at Chicago.


by deminva on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:16:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Hi, Lecturer Jackson" (none / 0)

Your bottom line is not relevant to the question.

Bottom line: If you or anyone else can find any campus in the US where students say things like "Hey, who's the lecturer for that course?" or "Hi, Lecturer Jackson!", then you may have a case.

We are not talking about common usage among college students.  We are talking about a statement made by the candidate himself as recently as 2007  

"`I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution,' Obama told an audience at a campaign fundraiser." (Brendan Farrington, "Obama: Bush Fails To Respect The Constitution," The Associated Press, 3/30/07)

as well as in those earlier direct-mail pieces alegre mentioned, issued for Obama's primary [Senate] campaign.

Source:  Chicago Sun Times, Aug. 8, 2004 (Lynn Sweet, "Obama's Book: What's Real, What's Not" )

If my lawyer could be honest about it, why couldn't Barack Obama?


by creeper1014 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 05:07:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Hi, Lecturer Jackson" (none / 0)

He was a constitutional law professor -- with the title of Lecturer.  It's the difference between asking someone what they do and what their rank is -- many of us have precisely analogous job names and separate official titles.  I used to joke with my mother about how proud she must be to have a son who was an "Agency Management Analyst -- General."  That was my official title from HR's perspective.


by deminva on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 07:12:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Article in Sun Times: February 12, 2007

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/ob ama/253391,CST-NWS-prof12.article (same Sunday Times that said he calls himself a professor when he's not)

Professor Obama was a listener, students say

'nuff said.


by Tommy Flanagan on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:35:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Because it shows (none / 0)

this is tactic of any defense of a liar.

I used to hear this all the time when I was a prosecutor. It is the first thing anyone does when they are caught.

It is an attempt to evade responsibility for the lie.  It is what children do when they are caught with their hand in the cookie jar.  It was what defense attorneys do when they know thier clients are guilty.

Hillary Clinton has lied about her experience in a fundemental way. It will be used again and again to attack her.

It's not her first lie (the Michigan example I have provided many times here, and I have NEVER had a response from a Clinton supporter here about that).


by fladem on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:06:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (1.00 / 1)

H Rodham Clinton's Campaign.

This is a campaign?

I thought it was a long suicide note.

What a political joke the Clintons have become.

Malcolm


by malc19ken on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:31:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Okie-dokie (none / 0)

Follow this one

http://www.jedreport.com/

Sorry, can't figure out how to link... and bye the bye I really like your work and admire your efforts.

Keep it up.


Anybody got any mixers? - Zaphod Beeblebrox.
by UrbanRedneck on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:19:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 2)

And here's the CBS News follow-up coverage showing more errors in what Clinton said - http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/ main500251.shtml?id=3968001n


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:07:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 2)

This one shows that while she JUST TOLD a Philadelphia newspaper that she stopped to great a little girl and then left, without lingering on the tarmac - the video footage shows her taking plenty of time to shake hands and take pictures.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:13:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 5)

Interesting how you don't even attempt to defend all the misstatements made by Obama in this diary. Can't blame you... they're indefensible.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:37:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 2)

You are trying to deflect attention. It reminds me of how my kids try to get out of things by blaming their brother or sister. I don't put up with that sort of thing at home, so I don't see why I should here.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:54:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 4)

Half of this diary deals with Obama's multiple "mis-statements." You failed to address a single one. Supporting a candidate who's told so many whoppers, it's understandable why you'd want to avoid the topic of this diary.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:01:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 2)

Are you a parent? If so, what do you do when one kid tries to get out of a problem by blaming a sibling?  I don't fall for that kind of thing myself.

And if Clinton supporters actually want to help her deal with this story, they would encourage her to get the details right asap and to admit they blew it. Otherwise, the media will double down and find more footage about this and other similar stories. The only way to wrap this up is to get it DONE. And you don't get it done by saying "The other candidate lied, too."

Sheesh. This is good advice and applies to basically every political problem that's generating a lot of media attention.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:08:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 2)

So where were YOU, "Mom," when Obama started telling his string of outrageous whoppers? Funny how you didn't develop a conscience about candidates lying until you started pointing the finger at someone else. Start at home. Give your candidate a lecture about how it's not in his best interests to tell tall tales about his resume, positions and policies.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:31:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I read this whole thread (2.00 / 1)

do you obfuscate this much with your children? Just curious?
by linc on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:11:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Wow is this how you hide lies during discussions with your children? That must be very bad parenting!

Ignoring 50% of what one said, and harping on one single point is childish. I hope kids dont call you a hypocrite sometime soon.


by Sandeep on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:03:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Holy shit, you're right! My God, he called himself a professor, when, in actually, he merely TEACHES COLLEGE. Quick, roll this whopper out to all the presses. TENURE-GATE! It makes Hillary's lies that re-enforce a nationally perceived career of lying (There IS no relationship) and deceptions look like paltry nuance compared to Obama's thunderous deceptions! Surely, once the MSM picks this one up Obama's ratings will plummet, and Hillary's will skyrocket, giving her the 65-70% victories she needs in every remaining state to talk back the pledged delegate lead and cinch her the nomination fair and square! Thank God we all woke up from our deluded dreaming!


by TheSilverMonkey on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:35:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

all of this is pure nutsville, but for the sake of accuracy it is not true that only tenured professors carry the title.  Assistant Professor is the most common non-tenured rank, but there are lots of other titles like:
visiting professor
visiting assistant professor
senior lecturer

the differences would only be important in a formal application

and making a fuss about the tarmac remark is standard disinformation and seems to be the way the game is played, to everyone's disservice


fernan47
by fernan47 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:57:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

I pretty much agree with you that it is nonsense. I don't think the lack of specificity about the fineries of academic titles can truly be called an Obama misstatement. As for making a fuss about the tarmac, I don't see any real way to parse it. She exaggerated in response to claims that her trips were largely ceremonial ("I don't recall anyone serving me tea as I ran from sniper fire," "When it's too dangerous to send the President, you send the first lady," etc.). Now, she did, in fact, still make the trips. And I would say meeting with foreign officials and war zones definitely equates to some degree of foreign policy cred (though I would personally argue how important it is in terms of running the country, cred is cred). The real problem, however, is if these are legitimate claims, why did she need to embellish them so and not just present them as they were? This is definitely a big perception problem for HRC, especially considering polling where 53% of Americans already view her as untrustworthy, and I think that's why MSM is running with it like they are. Considering how much they harped on Obama pledging to pursue an agreement on campaign finance, it's little wonder how they're reacting here.


by TheSilverMonkey on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:26:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Well said, SilverMonkey.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 10:51:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She made stuff up (none / 0)

to make herself sound more presidential.  Hillary supporters, don your Kevlar, it's going to be a tough week for you.  The bullets will be flying thick and fast.  The media are finally getting sick of this charade.  The NAFTA thing has got new legs as well.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:39:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

The other problem with defending Obama's misstatements is that he is a SERIAL liar and misstater.  It is easy for the MSM and Obama followers to focus on ONE misstatement from Hillary but if a guy lies and misstates every time he opens his mouth, he gets away with it because it happens all of the living time.

It will be such a releif when he is finally forced to drop out of the primary campaign as the bigger criminal connections start to be revealed.


by macmcd on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:00:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 6)

There was sniper fire in the area, the plane did a typical landing for a combat zone, and the ceremony on the tarmac actually was cut short.  I think she accidentally conflated this event with the other one on the same trip where riflemen escorted her from a helicopter to the building where an event was held.  That one fits better with her description of running from the tarmac because of potential sniper fire.

And only someone eager to deny her all her real experience would deny that a trip where you have to be escorted from a helicopter by riflemen is pretty impressive for anyone, but especially for a first lady.


by Mike Pridmore on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:17:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 1)

Watch the video linked above. It's a follow-up.

It clearly shows the arrival ceremony was NOT cut short.

Hillary lingers, shaking hands and posing for pictures. There is no feeling that she is rushing to do this quickly.

And if it was so unsafe, why did she leave her daughter out there? Why was there a large group of kids there with whom she took a picture?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:23:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 5)

It clearly shows the arrival ceremony was NOT cut short.

What're you kidding me?

And you know this how?  Were you privy to the original plans for that ceremony?  Did you have inside information that the ceremony went on for the intended length - contrary to what she claims?

Give - me - a - BREAK!

Sorry but you've got nothin' here kid.  Add to that the fact that you've made loads of comments here without a SINGLE WORD about the misstatements, exaggerations, or whatEVER you want ot call what BO said.

Seriously - I can't believe we're even having this discussion.  It's beyond absurd given the number of times BO's done this without anyone calling him on it.

So what - he gets a free pass here?

C'mon - talk to me.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:33:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 1)

So write a diary on that subject.

As I say below, if one of my kids brought up someone else's mistake when we were talking about what he or she had done, that would be a sign to me that he or she was not taking responsibility for his or her action.  

By the way, have you looked at the video yourself and seen Clinton taking her time with people taking pictures, shaking hands?  

There's something else to note: There are people on that trip who don't work for Hillary Clinton and they've become pretty big time reporters. And they say her account is bunk.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:38:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 3)

C O L !!!!

Umm... I just did.

No comment????


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:31:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ZING!!!!!!!!!! (2.00 / 2)

Great diary, Alegre! LMAO!!


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:37:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 2)

I don't want to be a party crasher, but she did give the same story in Iowa in DEC, and Texas in FEB.

Tomorrow there will be a revealing expose in PA with Tuzla Veterans that will discuss Major General Walter Stewart's claim that this was  "valor theft"

This was a closed case, but HRC let it live when she told Pittsburgh media that she only misspoke once.

I suggest you all read: http://pennsylvaniaprogressive.typepad.c om/my_weblog/

They get all the great scoops in PA, and I am guessing they will have more news tomorrow AM.


Unable to recommend or rate
NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:40:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 1)

The rule is -- When you're in a hole, stop digging.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:55:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grave diggin' (1.66 / 6)

Astute advice you should take.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:39:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Seriously - I can't believe we're even having this discussion.  It's beyond absurd

Finally, Alegre, you've said something for which I'm in total agreement. But that could frankly be said of any of your diaries of late.


by bookish on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:22:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Here's how the CBS story ends:

News Anchor Harry Smith: "In the end doesn't this really come down to a matter of can you trust what she says?"

Reporter Sharyl Attkisson: "I think so. I think that one reason political observers think this is so important is that Hillary Clinton has of course made experience her issue in this campaign saying she's the one that's best suited to answer that three-in-the-morning phone call."


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 4)

Yeah right because we all know the MSM are sooooo objective in this election - right?

Gimme a break.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:32:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

That is not my point. It's that this is how the media are treating the story.  I rather doubt this is the kind of commentary that serves Clinton well.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:35:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Do you have any shame at all? Why not accept the situation for what it is instead of constantly giving your one sided commentary on this blog which used to be evenhanded?


by Pravin on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:25:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

CBS (none / 0)

CBS is being too cute by half with its coverage of Clinton's "lies".  Last weekend they linked to a story in the WaPo with even-handed coverage of mis-statements by both Clinton and Obama.

Here's that story:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/2 4/politics/washingtonpost/main3961010.sh tml?source=search_story

Now CBS follows that excellent story with a hatchet job on Clinton.  And not just one story but two, cleverly crafted to do maximum damage to Clinton and provide maximum publicity to CBS.

First comes "Clinton Misspoke on Bosnia Trip".  
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/2 4/ap/politics/main3964859.shtml?source=s earch_story
It was coverage of her admission that she did, indeed, err in her description of portions of the Tuzla trip.  By itself it was certainly justified, even though it devoted one sentence to her acknowledgment of the error and eleven paragraphs to replaying it.  She was wrong and she said so.

Then CBS showed its true colors with a rehash, complete with film they forgot/neglected/refused to put in the first story (maybe to wring as much mileage out of it as possible?)..."CBS News Video Contradicts Clinton's Story".  
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/2 4/eveningnews/main3964921.shtml?source=s earch_story

Note who got mentioned first there.  

S'funny...we're trashing each other's candidates for lying when the biggest liars of all are the reporters we cite in "reliable" links.


by creeper1014 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:05:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Why is anyone still believing anything that CBS or any of the other networks report.  Just like reports from the NYTimes, LATimes, and WashingtonPost.  These are the same "reporters (?)" who reported all the lies about the WMD that have resulted in at least 4000 US soldiers dead (read that they only count those who actually died in Iraq and not those who die later as a result of the wounds) and over a million Iraqis (but who's counting) and this country in super debt to the Chinese and Saudis.


by BARB on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 07:37:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 5)

The same misstatement multiple times.  As if she was remembering the event wrongly and unintentionally misspeaking about it.  What she actually did is impressive enough.  And she wants to claim that impressive experience because Obama supporters have tried to pretend all she did was have tea parties.  She obviously went into some pretty scary situations to represent the country, and it wasn't all tea and crumpets.  

This is not an intentional embellishment but is simply a 60 year old woman who is very tired misremembering some of the details of a trip from 12 years ago.  Simple as that.


by Mike Pridmore on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:12:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 1)

If she can't remember this traumatic event, maybe this 60 year-old woman, as you describe her, should not be answering that 3am phone.


by mefck on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:15:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 5)

She accidentally conflated two events from the same trip.  That's pretty easy to do.  And in this trip she went into a combat area to visit the troops.  And another time she met with the national leaders there to discuss the plight of refugees.  She said she negotiated to open the border.  Then some pointed out the borders were already open when she arrived.  Then it was pointed out that she did meet the national leaders to discuss the plight of the refugees, and the press ignored that last part and tried to call her a liar then too.  

She has the experience and was not just having parties with tea and crumpets.  Obama doesn't even have enough experiences to conflate two of them together by accident.


by Mike Pridmore on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:23:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 2)

Why are making up this explanation?  Clinton hasn't given this explanation but somehow you know what actually happened with her memory?

And besides your patched together story doesn't explain why she made up new details about rushing off after greeting the girl that is at variance with the new video released by CBS news.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:25:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 5)

She misremembers this event.  And there is plenty of stuff on this trip that we should be talking about, but somehow her experience in a combat zone is meaningless because she accidentally misremembers part of it.  What kind of bizarro world is that?  Do you really think she is intentionally giving stories that seem to contradict new footage from the time?  Why on earth would she do that?  To embellish a trip that needs no embellishment?  You must have a pretty low opinion of her to come up with that sort of explanation.  I think my explanation makes a lot more sense.


by Mike Pridmore on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:56:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You don't misspeak four different times. (none / 0)

That's called lying, plain and simple.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:41:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Do you really think she is intentionally giving stories that seem to contradict new footage from the time?

Absolutely. It has happened multiple times. The only person who is willing to back up her side was a former speechwriter, while several journalists who accompanied her are making it clear that her version is complete bullshit.

I haven't been willing to indulge the theory that she's tearing the party asunder to create a 2012 opportunity, because I didn't want to believe someone could be that selfish. But after her decision yesterday to make hay with the Wright issue, I'm beginning to wonder, and so is Mo Dowd.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/opinio n/26dowd.html?hp


by bookish on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 07:35:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (2.00 / 4)

It was 12 years ago.

Maybe we should ask BO what he was doing that day.  Oh wait - we can't.  He won't say and he claims all his schedules etc have been "lost."


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:34:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

That won't make the media stop asking these questions.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:36:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: COL! (2.00 / 3)

Now you're part of the media? LOL! You've made so many "mis-statements" in this diary alone tonight, you should seriously consider looking into the mirror before criticizing one of our leading candidates on anything she might have "mis-spoken."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:43:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Look, I'd actually default to this position were it not for the fact that she is claiming that her and her only child were basically dodging sniper fire. I don't remember how I spent my night two weeks ago and if I struggle I can usually remember what I had for lunch the day before, but I know that if I and my child were subjected to mortal danger it would stick in my head quite clearly no matter how much time passed.


by tessellated on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 07:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Fine - Let's Talk About Misstatements (none / 0)

Why was this TR'ed?

Because he dared speaketh negatively about Queen Hillary?

Uh-oh, here come the one-spot's!


by doschi on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:12:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Big Deal (2.00 / 5)

The "big deal" is that Obama's "misstatements" and distortions are the REAL "big deal."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:58:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (none / 0)

Why are Obama's "misstatements and distortions" a bigger deal than Clinton's or McCain's?


by bawbie on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:59:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (2.00 / 7)

C'mon... you guys are always talkin' about the math right?

She messed up once.

There are 12 separate things listed in my diary above where he messed up.

Do the math ;o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:08:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (none / 0)

Actually she repeated it at least 4 times, but besides that, are you really stating that Hillary has not made a single misstatement this entire campaign until this week?

Really?


by bawbie on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:10:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (2.00 / 3)

Not true, as you admitted upthread.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:07:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (none / 0)

I'm the one who said that, yes, that link didn't show four times. But plenty of news organizations have shown them and have reported that there were four times when she said it.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:09:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (2.00 / 2)

No - she didn't repeat it four times.

See discussion up-thread.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:34:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (none / 0)

I'm pretty sure I saw four clips back-to-back on CNN last night, but I'll take a look at the "discussion".


by bawbie on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:07:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (2.00 / 2)

I could go over to FactCheck.org and copy/paste some of the other Clinton misstatements they have catalogued, too. You've spent some time over there, so you know it's not really 12 to 1.


by jdusek on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:00:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (none / 0)

Yep:  Here's a few from FactCheck.org:

*Clinton claims to have "negotiated open borders" in Macedonia to fleeing Kosovar refugees. But the Macedonian border opened a full day before she arrived, and her meetings with Macedonian officials were too brief to allow for much serious negotiating.

Clinton's activities "helped bring peace to Northern Ireland." Irish officials are divided as to how helpful Clinton's actions were, and key players agree that she was not directly involved in any actual negotiations.

Both Bill and Hillary Clinton claim that Hillary privately championed the use of U.S. troops to stop the genocide in Rwanda. That conversation left no public record, however, as U.S. policy was explicitly to stay out of Rwanda, and officials say that the use of U.S. troops was never considered.

Clinton's tough speech on human rights delivered to a Beijing audience is as advertised, though Clinton herself has been dismissive of speeches that aren't backed by solutions.

On the heels of a big win in Ohio, Hillary Clinton said in an interview that "no person has ever won the White House without winning the Ohio primary, in either party." Her campaign is pushing a slightly amended version: "No candidate in recent history, Democrat or Republican, has won the White House without winning the Ohio primary."

We don't know how Clinton is defining "recent history," but you only have to go back to 1968 to find an exception. That year, Ohio Gov. James Rhodes won the state's Republican presidential primary. But Richard Nixon went on to win the nomination and the presidency.

*Democrat Hillary Clinton ran an ad claiming that National Guard and Reserve troops had no health insurance before she went to work, when in fact most of them did.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 11:23:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (2.00 / 2)

There's a difference between mispeaking and lying! That was a flat out lie what she said, its like my 8 year who's in peewee saying he hit 4 home runs in a game when in fact he only got a single. Its not misspeak its called lying!


by anujtron on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:08:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (2.00 / 4)

BS.  This is like your kid hitting four homeruns and getting the details confused about what he did each of those four times.  She did really great stuff there and in other places that the Obama camp is eager to dismiss or distract from.  She hit her homeruns on a regular basis but you guys keep trying to pretend it was T-ball, all tea and crumpets.


by Mike Pridmore on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:02:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (none / 0)

What are the 4 home runs here? The four times she told the same false story?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:10:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (2.00 / 3)

When was the last time you went to an area so dangerous that you flew in in a helicopter and were escorted directly from the helicopter to a structure by riflemen?  Just doing that is a homerun or two in my book. And only a basehit if you are looking to deny her bravery.  And she did two visits by helicopter that I know of that day in addition to the events in Tuzla with Sheryl Crowe and Sinbad.


by Mike Pridmore on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:36:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (none / 0)

Tell that to anyone who has ever served in the Military under combat. It's a big deal.


"First they ignore you.Then they laugh at you.Then they fight you.And then you win."~Ghandi
by Wild Starchild on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:33:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Big Deal (2.00 / 3)

And you know this was a lie... how?

She said it once.  It was NOT part of her prepared remarks.  She DID fly into a combat zone and there were several stops during that trip - two to outposts that had snipers up in the hills.

And yet you KNOW she was lying in that speech right?

Sorry - given a choice I'm going to have to go with her account and say this was an honest mistake.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 12:36:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's... (none / 0)

Why are Obama's "misstatements and distortions" a bigger deal than Clinton's or McCain's?

... the Clinton Rules.


by kraant on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:09:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BHO Misstatements or distortions or lies (2.00 / 3)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9JQ4YXC_bjQ

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ft6cZjPw79Q


The three amigos: Tony Rezko, the indicted fixer; Jeremiah Wright, the racist reverend; William Ayers, the unrepentant terrorist.
by indus on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 11:21:42 PM EST
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Re: The Big Deal (2.00 / 4)

Here's one big difference:
Obama's Friday lies about Wright, about what he knew and when he knew it, were intended to cover up, to protect him from the damage of the truth.  He did it on camera, in several different interviews.  4 days later -- not 12 years later -- having realized he would get caught in Friday's lies, he spun a version of the truth, though still not the whole truth.  
Lying to cover up and save your ass is different.  
On to the Convention Floor!
by oh puhleeze on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 01:28:48 AM EST
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