April Straw Poll Results

MyDD April Reader Straw Poll
Candidate 1st Choice March 2nd Choice 1st + 2nd Choices Last Choice
Edwards 43.2 33.1 29.7 72.9 1.5
Obama 34.3 36.1 29.1 63.4 2.7
Richardson 7.9 9.7 19.4 27.3 0.4
Clinton 3.8 4.7 7.1 10.8 18.4
Kucinich 1.4 2.0 2.6 4.0 26.2
Dodd 0.7 1.1 2.5 3.2 1.7
Biden 0.5 0.5 1.3 1.8 18.3
Gravel 0.4 0.3 0.7 1.0 30.9
Other 5.9 10.6 5.5 11.4 --
Unsure 2.0 1.9 2.1 4.1 --

It was a good month for Edwards, who rose ten points, while everyone else dropped slightly. The main source of Edwards' rise came from "Other," and he still dominates the second place votes among the remaining "Other" voters, where he leads Obama and Richardson 55-13-13. Other factors: was this due to my methodology, the way we cover the candidates on MyDD, or the general upward trend for Edwards? Who knows, but I'm sure we will have those discussions in the comments.

There were some interesting tidbits about the last place votes:
  • Obama supporters were 12 of the 13 people who ranked Edwards last, but Edwards supporters only represented 10 of the 27 who ranked Obama last. Then again, all three people who ranked Richardson last were Edwards supporters.
  • 93 Edwards votes ranked Biden last, while only 22 Obama voters ranked Biden last. This is stunning, because there was virtually no difference between Edwards and Obama supporters when it came to last place votes for Clinton (62-59), Gravel (107-100) and Kucinich (90-83).
  • Dodd continues to have the fewest supporters and haters. Combined, I only counted twenty-five first and last place votes for Dodd. To put this in perspective, Richardson, with 134, had the second fewest first and second place votes combined.
Anyway, I do not have a huge amount of commentary on poll that was fairly static. The methodological statement is in the extended entry.

You can view the results of the poll yourself by clicking here, and using zxa1q5ge as the password. I removed stuffed votes according to the same rules I followed last month. Overall, the poll was open from 6:50 pm eastern, until 12:35 a.m. eastern, which was a change from March when the poll was held in the afternoon. I counted 1652 non-stuffed votes.

Just like in March, I removed all votes that only ranked one or two candidates. Unlike March, I had to deal with a new stuffing problem: repeating sequences. Here are just some of the repeating sequences that were clearly stuffed votes:

7,1,6,3,0,8,2,9,4,5: 15 times, all near the end
1,6,3,7,9,4,0,2,5,8: 7 times, all near the end
6,1,5,0,9,7,2,8,4,3: 5 times, all near the end
6,3,8,7,2,1,0,9,4,5: 21 times, all near the end
1,6,3,7,8,2,0,4,5,9: 14 times, all near the end
2,1,7,6,3,0,8,8,4,5: 10 times, all near the end
3,6,1,8,2,5,0,9,7,4: 14 times, all near the end
6,1,3,2,7,8,9,0,4,5: 21 times, all near the end
6,8,1,2,7,9,3,0,4,5: 8 times, all near the end
6,8,2,3,1,0,7,9,4,5: 7 times, all near the end
8,6,3,2,7,0,1,5,4,9: 11 times, all near the end

There were so many of these repeating sequences, all of them appearing toward the end of the data stream, that I fond a point just before the appearance of the first repeating sequence, and deleted all votes coming after that point. Once that was done, I looked at the data in an Access database, and was satisfied that the remaining votes were legitimate.

Cry foul as much as you want. If you know me, you know that I did my best to produce as accurate results as possible. This is not a scientific poll, but it is the best I can do.

Display:


Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 2)

Great results!  John Edwards is winning the netroots and he is doing it because of his stands on issues.

We can make a difference this election.


by littafi on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:01:40 PM EST

What was all that (3.00 / 3)

noise last month about My DD people going for Obama because of their youth, as opposed to all those old farts over at Kos? I guess the My DD audience is growing up in a hurry.

So Edwards has won Kos and My DD. Next?


by david mizner on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:06:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Another explanation... perhaps (none / 0)

Obama voters been driven from MyDD because of it's consistant Edwards bias? Are the Edwards fans going to be talking to themselves in another few months?

Perhaps.


by JoeCoaster on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another explanation... perhaps (none / 0)


by littafi on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:26:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another explanation... perhaps (none / 0)

Whoops.  Did not mean to post that empty comment, although I thought it had depth.

I think the vote reflects Edwards growing strength. I don't see a bias, but I suppose it is in the eye of the beholder.  Some Obama supporters are less interested in issues and more interested in personality,  Blogs, however, run on reasoned argument and issues.  I rarely see Obama supporters talking about his stands on issues.  It often is money, polls, his bio, but not issues.  Where the base audience of blogs like this are into the blog as a means of discussing issues, it does not surprise me that the candidate with real stands on issues gets attention.  


by littafi on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:31:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another explanation... perhaps (none / 0)

more insults for obama supporters..
now we don't use reason

give me a break


by serge in dc on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:37:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another explanation... perhaps (3.00 / 1)

Obama's support did not go down much at all, so that seems very unlikely. Edwards saw his support rise mainly from the "other" category, not from Obama.
by Chris Bowers on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:31:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another explanation... perhaps (3.00 / 1)

I agree.  I think it is primarily Gore and Clark voters coming to Edwards.  Many Edwards supporters in the netroots are very issue oriented.

For MyDD, I think Obama has peaked, at least for the near future.  I do not think his personality- driven campaign plays as well for MyDD readers, who are high information folks, as it may for other audiences.  


by littafi on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:35:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another explanation... perhaps (none / 0)

I am political junkie but I realise that personality is what matters in American elections, and therefore I lean towards supporting Obama. I think Edwards has a great personality too. Not Hillary though.


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:31:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another explanation... perhaps (none / 0)

Well, I do want to make it clear then, that when I put Other 2nd, that was Gore, not Clark.

Since last and second last can sometimes be a close-run thing, it would be nice to have a breakdown of who put Biden and Clinton last and second last, in either order.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:32:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Holding the poll right after Obama followed... (3.00 / 1)

...Edwards' lead in dropping out of the Fox debate might have boosted Barack's numbers some, but there will always be events that affect polls like these.

Hillary's convenient announcement that she never intended to attend the Fox debate didn't seem to help her much :)


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:03:19 PM EST

Edwards picking up support from "other" (3.00 / 1)

sounds right to me. I was on the fence between Edwards and holding out for Gore myself until some time last year.

I think a lot of the people waiting for Gore or Clark will end up in the Edwards camp.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:25:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards picking up support from "other" (none / 0)

Several people at my Edwards house party said something similar.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:30:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 2)

vs. March Results
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/3/12/2136 30/002

Edwards: +10
Obama: -2
Richardson: -2
Clinton: -1
Other: -5
Unsure: Even

Sure, some of this has to do with the vote being taken in the evening and for a short time.  So no time for the myspacers, maybe.

But surely, Edwards now dominates the large blogs. Edwards is winning over converts from all candidates and especially from Clark and Gore supporters (note that Other, presumably Gore and Clark went from 10% to 5% and the vast majority of them must have gone to Edwards).

Come on over folks, the water is fine!


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:05:48 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

So, just to make sure:

5 was Kucinich?
6 was Obama?

So almost all of the stuffing came from the Kucinich and Obama camps?


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:09:18 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 3)

No reason to conclude it came from their "camps." It could have just been a couple of jackoffs who wanted to screw with the poll.
by Chris Bowers on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 1)

Yes, sorry, better to say one or a few lone backers of ....

Definately not "camps" they'd all be too smart for the ham-handed stuff.


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 2)

   Short-time Edwards supporter, long-time Biden-hater here.  It's the dumb racial comments, it's the bankruptcy bill vote, but mostly it's the complete LACK of leadership on anything of importance.  I think he's a complete blowhard on foreign policy, even though some people think he has gravitas.


Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:17:06 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

Another Biden hater here.  Let's not forget his support of Clarence Thomas back in the day.

One thing I totally don't get about the results was how anyone could rank Edwards as their bottom choice, particularly an Obama supporter.  Sheesh--the two of them agree 90+% of the time!

(I voted Obama#1 Edwards#2.)


Get a Vegetarian Starter Kit and a Dem. Party Mastercard
by Go Vegetarian on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:30:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 6)

The practice of strategically voting a rival in last place is just one of the reasons that people are way too idealistic about IRV.

If Obama were hit by a bus tomorrow (perish the thought), a great many of his supporters might be perfectly content to make Edwards their new #1 choice, and vice versa.

But in the context of this poll, Obama supporters know Edwards is their closest rival for the #1 spot (or, in the real world where Hillary actually exists, the closest rival for #2).  So they feel compelled to vote Edwards way, way down for strategic reasons, even though in their heart he may be the #2 choice.  There's nothing "wrong" with strategic voting, but this illustrates the folly of believing that IRV allows everyone to simply vote their conscience.

Of course, the online rivalry between Obama and Edwards supporters is sufficiently heated that there probably are some Obama fans who think Edwards is the devil, and vice versa.  So I'm not suggesting every single last-place vote is an artifact of strategic voting.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:23:05 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 4)

I agree that is a problem.

On a slightly different note, having two strong candidates is a boon to progressives.  If one of them and Hillary bloody each other up then we will have an unblemished candidate to take the lead.

If Edwards and Obama play it right then they can constrain Clinton's ability to negative in the first place.

The nicer Edwards, Obama, and their supporters will be to each other, the more successful everyone will be all around.


by Hellmut on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:22:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

agree (3.00 / 2)

I'd be thrilled with either Edwards or Obama,


"Lobbyists Represent 'Real' Americans" - Hillary Clinton
by TarHeel on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 2)

On a slightly different note, having two strong candidates is a boon to progressives.  If one of them and Hillary bloody each other up then we will have an unblemished candidate to take the lead.

I think really the Edwards and Obama campaigns draw strength from each other in a lot of ways. If nothing else I think both benefit from being on a field with two strong progressives and one strong DLCer, instead of the progressive candidate having to stand alone on everything. In brief neither Edwards or Obama have to waste time fighting to establish the progressive-flavored agenda as legitimate, they can focus just on pushing that agenda.

It's funny because although the netroots supporters of Obama and Edwards are at each others' throats all the time and seem to generally see each others as adversiaries, the actual campaigns of the two candidates don't seem to have this problem or act as if they have this adversarial mindset toward one another at all.


by Silent sound on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 07:15:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 1)

     Well, if that's what they're doing, they're idiots, because it doesn't make any difference to the result WHO Edwards' voters' second-choice was. It never reaches that point. All of Edwards' first choice voters are still with him in the final round.
     In instant-runoff elections, it doesn't make any difference what the second choices are if voters support one of the top two candidates. Only the second choices of the also-rans are of any significance.
by Ron Thompson on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:48:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

But it's not just about the result.  If it was, this post would be one sentence long.  Chris is tabulating second-place votes, last-place votes, and all that jazz.  When Obama supporters put Edwards last (or vice versa), it's because they hope to persuade people that only Obama can be the anti-Hillary.  So they have to try and artificially depress the other guy's support, by ranking him much lower than they otherwise would.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:45:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

     My point was in response to your comment about instant runoff voting generally.
     When I voted yesterday, I did not know that Chris would tabulate second- and last-place votes. I come to this site often and have been voting in straw polls for months, but perhaps I was the only one who didn't know that. I now understand that it's being used for that purpose as well, and I'll do a complete ballot in the future. If I'd done so yesterday, I would have voted Edwards #1 and Obama #2.
by Ron Thompson on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:40:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

The irony is that refusing to put your second chioce as your #2 in real election makes absolutely no sense (even though people will do this), as that #2 ranking is worth absolutely nothing unless your #1 choice is knocked out.

The MyDD poll is slightly different than a real IRV election, as they're tabulating how many #2 votes, thus making the #2 slot worth something.


Get a Vegetarian Starter Kit and a Dem. Party Mastercard
by Go Vegetarian on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:32:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

Another problem with full preference voting is donkey voting, where voters just want to put in their preference and then fill in the rest as quick as possible.

Both of those are arguments for 1st and 2nd pref. run-off voting instead of full preference.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

I didn't vote based on rivalries - I voted for whom I'd prefer as President. I was heartened to see that 'Other' did really well and came in 3rd overall.
I hope 'Other' gets in the race so I just vote for Gore.
by Carolyn in Baltimore on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:26:24 PM EST

Secure Poll (none / 0)

Will there be some kind of development effort to create a way to do secure polling?

I have no doubt that you wanted to be as fair as possible, but I am certain that legitimate votes were discounted.


by Obama08 on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:28:07 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (1.00 / 0)

Why do we have IRV?  Why not just a straight ballot of picking one candidate?  That is how we will vote in the real elections.

The Greens were in love with IRV and other multi-vote ballot systems because it allowed them to receive votes, but Dems to be elected.  What is the rationale here?  


by littafi on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:33:44 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 3)

This system allows me to shift out stuffed votes, determine second place choices, and also determine last place choices. That is why I use it.
by Chris Bowers on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:37:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

Thanks. I understand.  


by littafi on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

Also...

Our presidential election system is somewhat related to IRV, where candidates who lose early states drop out (or stop being taken seriously), thus narrowing the choices for later states.


Get a Vegetarian Starter Kit and a Dem. Party Mastercard
by Go Vegetarian on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:33:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

last place votes (3.00 / 1)

I didn't realize they were taken seriously; I stopped ranking people once I hit the 4-5 that I beleived would factor into the final results.  Otherwise, I'd have had DK last.


by Adam B on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:43:33 PM EST

I did the same thing (3.00 / 1)

Next month I guess I'll rank them all.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 02:48:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

Well I have to say, I am a definite Edwards leaner but when Biden came by last week his speech only reaffirmed my conviction that the man needs to be kept as far away from the presidency as humanly possible. I'd like to kick him off the senate too but he's not from my state.

As it was, because I oppose the methodology of voting my first place vote was Edwards, my second was "Other" and I did not rank any other candidates because I don't want any of them to win.


by MNPundit on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:06:31 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 1)

Just an observation - doesn't it seem like Gore enthusiasts are slowly abandoning the Other vote in favor of declared candidates (mostly Edwards, I assume).


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:07:19 PM EST

Yeah, (none / 0)

whereas some of the most vocal Edwards opponents in the netroots are Gore partisans, Edwards picks up a lot of Gore's support both in the netroots and in the real world. In national polls Edwards does better relative to the other big 2 with Gore out of the race.


by david mizner on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

I would have to say that at least some of this is based on a pro-Edwards bias here at MyDD.  Not saying there's anything wrong with having that bias, but I personally don't see the appeal of Mr. Edwards.  As far as I can tell, he is not a better candidate than Obama or Clinton.  And no matter how you look at it, he was a loser in 2004.  

I know all that sounds a little harsh, but I'm not really satisfied with our candidates so far.  At this point, I'm a Richardson supporter because I think he's got the credentials to be a great president.  Unfortunately, he doesn't get people excited.  My second choice was Obama, who has absolutely no credentials, but I like him because he's young. I think we would be well served to have a president who isn't a Baby Boomer and who doesn't suffer from a Cold War mentality.  My third choice was Edwards, but like I said he doesn't do too much for me.  He would probably be a decent president, but I don't see what gets people excited about him.

Anyone care to explain it?


by Reece on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:11:17 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 2)

Edwards is good on policy, and he's good at communicating progressive values to average folks.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:22:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My pleasure :) (3.00 / 5)

Two factors are working in tandem for Edwards.

1) He's running a boldly progressive campaign -- universal health care with tax increases on the wealthy; start withdrawal from Iraq NOW and don't accept Bush's veto; strongly emphasize climate change as it relates to energy policy, etc. When Edwards is elected, he will have the political clout to enact a progressive agenda because he had the courage to run on it. He will be able to say, "The American people have spoken."

2) Edwards, and his wife, are extremely adept at defining themselves and persuading the American people, rather than letting the other side define them. The ability to handle a terminal cancer diagnosis in the media the way they did speaks volumes. Lesser politicians would not have been able to do that. Edwards also is calling out the right-wing media and refusing to legitimize them. His well-honed skill (and natural talent) in winning over juries composed of everyday Americans allows him to win over the public opinion toward his progressive agenda.

These two factors result in numbers like these.


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:32:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

This is the thing as far as I'm concerned:

Last month Obama was up on Edwards 36-33.

This month Edwards was up on Obama 43-34.

I agree that MyDD has a detectable and occasionally obnoxious pro-Edwards preference, among the readerbase if not among the main bloggers. But it had been this way for many months. Whatever "bias" is supposed to mean, there is no more of it on MyDD now than there was last month, yet Obama was ahead in the poll last month. This month's results clearly represent a real surge in support for Edwards.


by Silent sound on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:33:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 2)

Did you see the DNC winter meeting video?

If not, then I suggest you watch it and let Edwards himself show you why he has such a following and why people think his presidency holds such promise.

http://democrats.org/a/2007/02/john_edwa rds_vi.php


by adamterando on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:40:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

Exactly.  I had some friends watch that- what a difference it made.


"And so in the place of the palace of privilege, we seek to build a temple out of faith and hope and charity."-FDR
by jallen on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:45:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 3)

Have you even been paying attention to this election?  Why is he better than Obama and Clinton?

Edwards is running a substantive campaign based on OUR future.  He is running to fight for us.  Obama and Clinton are running campaigns about themselves. One of Obama's top advisors told Hotline that they are planning to run a purely "personality" driven campaign.  He talks about ending "small politics" but if we are really going to do that we need to make the Democratic Party about more than ambitous people seeking elected office while consultants get filthy rich.  Politics for politics sake is a far worse problem than "partisanship".  Obama is obsessed with a 'consensus" that will simply not become a reality and has served an excuse for him to run a fluff driven campaign.

Edwards is more electable.  Look at the totality of 2008 polling (including the new Rasmussen Polls in which Edwards becomes the first Democrat to beat every Republican) and use common sense.  By the way, he was doing the best in head to head polling before the cancer announcement.

Edwards is a candidate who we can build a true progressive alliance around.  We can point to him and say "THAT is a Democrat, he believes what I believe, he fights for what is important".  Obama is talented, and I will pull for him with everything I have if he wins the nomination, but he has chosen to run a campaign about Barack Obama.  John Edwards has chosen to run a campaign about reclaiming the Democratic Party and the American people.  

As for Senator Clinton, well, I it's clear why she would be a terrible nominee.  Clinton/Bayh is not what our party or our country need.  I understand that when you first become involcved in politics you think...  Bill Clinton was a Democratic President, Hillary is his wife, therefore she is good and I must support her...
But it's a lot more complicated than that.  In short she stands for nothing, her position on Iraq is ridiculous, and if she where to win the nomination the GOP would destroy her.

Why is everyone acting like Hillary Clinton's campaign isn't already doomed?
Bill Clinton should not have been impeached and personal issues don't makes someone less of a president.  The problem is that if these issues become prominent again it will allow the GOP to bring up the whole "moral values" garbage again.  And these issues will be brought up.  President Clinton has already admitted that he has been twice deceptive with the American people about relationships.  And even as long ago as 1988, when he considered a run for the White House, he sat down with a powerful Democrat and admitted to numerous affaird.  Who knows how many he has had since.  This does not matter to most Democrats bu to many Americans (especially women) among whom she has no room for error when it comes to her negatives, she will go from the "wronged woman" to the "power hungry woman willing to live in a marriage of political convenince for her chance at power" and that will finish her.  Her campaign ddoes not know how to handle this because it cannot be handled.  You cannot rapid response your way out of this.  This is not 1992, Hillary is not half the politician Bill is, and they have used up their mea culpas with the people who really care about this stuff.  They've already began to prepare for the inevitable.  Hillary said at the start of her campaign that her and Bill "began a conversation" a long time ago and haven't stopped talking since.

We all know that she only says the word "conversation" when she is full of shit.

That comment was meant to say that they are basically close friends.  That is not the type of statement a politician usually makes about their spouse, unless of course they are trying to downplay their relationship.  

The campaign is claiming that all of this is Bill's "personal business" and the media says that it would take something "new" for them to jump on it, but do we really think that someone
"new" isn't out there.  Does anybody remember
"The Arkansas Project?"  Even if the GOP can't find someone new, which I highly doubt, they will invent someone new.  And what credibility will the Clinton's have?

Senator Clinton doesn't reprsent our values and will continually throw the party under a bus if it helps her.  Meanwhile John Edwards is running to strengthen and reclaim the party.      


She just can't win.
by Progressive Populist 4 Edwards on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:00:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

edwards plays the progressive dog whistle (3.00 / 0)

for me, he's my 4th place (richardson, obama, other,edwards).

honestly, i didn't really care for him in his 2004 run, but since then he has really turned around and done some good things, and started saying all the right things. however, this leaves me feeling partly inspired, and partly pandered to. if i could get over the feeling of being pandered to, he might be my #1, but i have yet to be convinced.


mydd straw poll vote: 1. other (gore) 2. unsure 3. dodd 4. edwards 5. obama
by colorless green ideas on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:37:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: edwards plays the progressive dog whistle (none / 0)

I don't know how you could say that about Edwards and not Richardson. When I hear Richardson talk at union meetings and other progressive venues that's all I feel. It doesn't feel like he has a coherent ideology where he feels like he wants to further a progressive vision. It feels like this is an important constituency that he needs to placate.

Edwards has the fire in the belly. He's not placating or pandering. He believes is a social democratic vision for the country and he proposes policies that continually strive towards that goal.

When I listen to Richardson I feel like he tossing out plans to make me happy and to make the other guy happy about certain things. But I go away feeling like that's all he's trying to do. Just make disparate groups happy so he can win an election.


by adamterando on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:04:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: edwards plays the progressive dog whistle (none / 0)

that is your impression, edwards speaks to you.  richardson speaks to me, i don't feel like he's pandering because i can measure his words by his actions, which stand for themselves.

here's richardson on the iraq war:

"the war on iraq is not the disease; it's a sympton. the disease is arrogance".

i'm not even totally decided, i just feel lukewarm to the top 3, and want to see the race open up a bit.


mydd straw poll vote: 1. other (gore) 2. unsure 3. dodd 4. edwards 5. obama
by colorless green ideas on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:36:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: edwards plays the progressive dog whistle (1.00 / 0)

Your comment shows a deep seated cycnicism.  It's not like Edwards doesnt' have many instances of ACTUAL work (like minimum wage ballot procedures, opening up a poverty center, working for MONTHS ona  healthcare plan, union organization) that wouldn't prove his progressivism.

Assuming you have seen and are knowledgabale of these actions, the only conclusion I can draw from your comment is that it shows a thread of illogical thinking.


by apolitik on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:12:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: edwards plays the progressive dog whistle (none / 0)

quoting myself: "but since then he has really turned around and done some good things"

no need for you to assume anything, you can just read what i wrote. maybe edwards works better outside the corrupting influence of electoral politics? his deeds since his senate term and 2004 runs have not erased, for me, what he did, and did not do, previously.


mydd straw poll vote: 1. other (gore) 2. unsure 3. dodd 4. edwards 5. obama
by colorless green ideas on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:28:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

Also, you know how everyone went "wow" when they saw Obama's numbers or when they see Obama's crowds (and rightly so)?

Well, this speech from Edwards at the DNC meeting will make you go "wow" and will make your hair stand on end. It's that good. And its nice to be able to say "wow" about something other than how much a candidate raises I think.


by adamterando on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:06:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Last place (3.00 / 1)

  1. I don't think it makes any sense to talk about "last place", or at least to do the specific kind of analysis you're performing-- I don't think you're measuring the thing you think you're measuring. Actually it's not quite clear what you are hoping to imply the last place votes mean, but in any interpretation the last-place thing is iffy because you analyze last place votes, but you ignore non-votes. If you're interpreting last place votes as negative perceptions of the candidate, then surely last place votes are at least more of an endorsement than non-votes? If you're interpreting last place votes as grudging support for the candidate, then surely the votes between second and last are more important as such than last place?

    For example, you make a big deal about the low rates with which Obama supporters listed Biden last as compared to Edwards supporters. Well, I was one of the Obama-first (Edwards second) voters. I don't like Biden as a presidential candidate, so I didn't vote for him at all! I don't actually remember exactly who I had in last place, but it was someone I liked enough compared to my non-vote candidates that I could feel good voting for him. I think I am not the only person whose vote was structured this way, and you gave no instructions I saw to voters to use their last place vote in any other way.

    Or is the idea that you only tabulated last place votes for people who voted for all eight candidates?

  2. It makes me a little sad that Kucinich is shaping up into the hopeless-darling-of-the-left candidate-- not as much as he did in 2004, but still a little bit-- when it seems to me Gravel is more qualified for that slot both ideologically and in terms of job qualification. What's going on there?
  3. Out of curiosity, if I were considering poking at this data manually, what exactly was the line where you did the cutoff when removing the ballot stuffing? I notice the entire end is just 5s over and over....


by Silent sound on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:22:10 PM EST

Gravel (none / 0)

I'm surprised that Mike Gravel does so poorly here, on a site called "Direct Democracy", when he's the only candidate actually campaigning for direct democracy.  (He's also a strong anti-war candidate, and has significant experience, two other weaknesses of much of the field.)  Granted, he has no chance to win, but in an IRV vote it doesn't hurt to rank him highly.


by Lex on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:25:14 PM EST

Re: Gravel (none / 0)

Did you watch his SEIU performance? it was pitable at best.

He was PLEADING for 10 million to prove to people HE could be president.

Why support someone like that?


by apolitik on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gravel (none / 0)

I still like him more than Kucinich and Biden.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:22:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

     You removed ballots that listed only one candidate? Why? It was obvious to me from recent polls that my candidate (Edwards) would be in the final two, at least, and so I saw no need to list a second choice.
     Do I need to list at least two people to have my vote counted in the May poll?
by Ron Thompson on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:39:42 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

It's best to rank all of them to make sure your vote is counted.


by adamterando on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 03:41:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards (3.00 / 5)

No wonder Edwards is winning.  He was the..

- 1st candidate to respond to DFA with a clear position  plan for ending the war in Iraq.
- 1st and only of the "big 3" to publicly support the 2006 Feingold ammendment to set a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq (both Obama and Clinton voted for the Reed-Levin ammendment, which Edwards supported as well, but they both voted against the more concrete Feingold ammendment while Edwards was vocally supporting it).
-1st and only of the "big 3" to support cutting off funding for the escalation of the war in Iraq (both Obama and Clinton stopped short).
-1st major candidate to support Jim Webb's Iran legislation.
-1st major candidate to release a detailed substantive Universal Health Care Plan.
-1st major candidate to release a detailed plan for Energy Independence / to combat Global Warming.
- 1st candidate to say no to debating on / legitimizing FOX News. Not once but twice. Both times FOX news was shceduled to host a Democratic debate John Edwards was the first candidate to say no, and the only one to make it clear that he did so because FOX News is bias and he did not want to legitimize a Republican spin machine.
-1st candidate to call for the resignation of Alberto Gonzales.
-1st candidate to accept the SEIU's challenge to work a union job for a day (his wife accepted as well).
-1st (and only) candidate to mention the passing of the late great Molly Ivins during his speech to the DNC's Winter Meeting. You cannot really knock the other candidates for not mentioning her, becuase they stick so closely to their prepared remarks. But in doing this Edwards displayed an important respect for powerful and meaningfull progressive voices

It's called leadership, and John Edwards is the only candidate really showing it.


She just can't win.
by Progressive Populist 4 Edwards on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:03:47 PM EST

Why I'm Biased Against Edwards (none / 0)

I have been very impressed with Edwards' stands on the issues.  He is saying what needs to be said, and I applaud him for it.  However, two things keep me from joining his camp.

1. His original vote for the Iraq War, and his hawkish 2004 presidential campaign.  This was a serious lapse in judgment, but forgivable due to his current strong stand on the issue.

2. He made millions suing hospitals.  My dad works in healthcare administration, and at a time of ever-increasing stress and costs, multi-million dollar lawsuits against doctors and hospitals who are (most of the time) just doing their jobs has a negative effect on care for everyone, including the poor Edwards champions.

Obama's resume shows a lot more genuine concern and action for those left behind.  I think that personal experience also shows more of the type of leader we're electing.

I will vote for Edwards in the general if he's the nominee, and I would vote for him the primary if not for those 2 hangups.  I just can't throw my weight around a candidate who made a killing by making things worse in the healthcare industry.


"The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country." - Robert F. Kennedy
by dmfox on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:12:22 PM EST

Re: Why I'm Biased Against Edwards (3.00 / 4)

In terms of Edwards legal record, I suggest reading Four Trials and tell me if those weren't justified cases.  John Edwards loathed taking on good doctors and good hospitals, but there has to be accountability when a hospital fails to follwo procedure or a doctor ignores warning signs and puts a persons life at risk, or god forbid ends it.

I think the medical community has plenty of barriers to fraudulent lawsuits.  Not to mention having over-protective Republican legislatures, governors (and Congress before 2006) that turned "tort-reform" into "bar the people from the courts" to kep even non-fraudulent cases out of the courts.

There has to be accountability of business and healthcare to the public through the courts.  Its a basic civil right in this country.


Hoosiers for Hill -- Barack Obama
by BWasikIUgrad on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:32:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I'm Biased Against Edwards (3.00 / 3)

Sorry but you are dead wrong with the "millions suing hospitals" crap.  look at his universal health care plan.  If health care is your issue then he's your candidate.  You are buying into GOP spin about trial lawyers.  Obama was a lawyer as well.  And I'm sorry to point this out but at least Edwards has been up front about his career as a lawyer.  If you look at the cases he has been involved in, more times than not, he was fighting for people who had been severly wronged.  Obama gives the impression that he rejected a career as a lawyer to be a community organizer,  He was a community organizer but he also eventually went into practicing law.  There is no rule against this, but you are as misinformed about Obama's legal career as you are about Edwards'.  

Regarding the war.  You should read the story about Edwards' vote.  It gives you some insight into what happened.  He was dead wrong to vote for the war.  It's why I didn't support him unitl early 2006.  But he bucked his adviors, admitted his mistake and since then he has led on the issue.  Look on the list of things he has done regarding the war that Obama and Clinton have not.  what about Clinton's plan to keep 75,00 troops and possible permanent bases there.  What about Obamas' "let's no play chicken with the troops" b.s?  As far as Iran, Edwards and Obama have the same position.  You should read Ezra Klein's interview with Edwards on the subject, or watch the clip of him discussing it on Meet the Press.  When you actually get passed the "take nothing off the table" line that Obama and Clinton use as well you see that Edwards' position is possibly even better than Obama's though they are similar.  Edwards makes it clear what he means by "take nothing off the table' and it's not what President Bush means when he says the same thing.  Edwards also got hammered for saying that down the line, he would not be opposed to signing a non-agression pact(or something very similar, I'm drawing a blank here) with Iran.  He was also the first to back Jim Webb's Iran legislation.  Trying to twist his remarks at teh Herzliya conference into saying he was acting overly "hawkish" is B.S.  Obama spoke to AIPAC to.  I don't like it, but right now all 3 cater to these groups. If we really want a responsible foreign policy we're going to need to take George Soros's advice on this.

Other than your off bse comment about him being a trial lawyer I appreciate where you are coming from, I really do.  You do point out a major mistake that Edwards made, and I was angry when I read the Herzliya comments as well, until I read the whole speech, researched his consistant position on the issue, and read more recent interviews with him.

I think that you are coming from the right place but you are missing the bigger picture.  It is Edwards, not Obama, who is leading on these issues.  The one thing I don;t get is that if you hold him to this standard, how could you say that Hillary Clinton is acceptable.  She tries so hard to be a "hawk" it's ridiculous.  Anyway, I hope you research the cases Edwards worked on because that is a silly reason not to support him.


She just can't win.
by Progressive Populist 4 Edwards on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I'm Biased Against Edwards (3.00 / 0)

Obama was a civil rights lawyer...

Yes he did practice law, beyond that your post is... false?


by Obama08 on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:35:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I'm Biased Against Edwards (3.00 / 0)

Don't buy the "tort reform" nonsense! Lawsuits represent an absolute pittance of health care costs.

You want to know what drives health care costs?

Three things:

  1. Health care expansion, both in terms of facilities and technology (a.k.a. the "medical arms race"), drives costs WAY up due to the way we reimburse providers in this country.
  2. HMO's suck up a ton of money in unnecessarily high administration costs.
  3. Drug companies refusing to negotiate over prescription drug prices (this one far less than the other two).


by the wanderer on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:16:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lawsuits add virtually nothing to health costs (3.00 / 0)

Look up Kevin Drum's posts on the subject.


by Cyt on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards Bias? (3.00 / 2)

People talking about an Edwards bias are similar to Republicans who made up the "liberal media bias" in the 1980's.  The big difference is that progressives aren't going to lay down this time.  If there is a bias towards Edwards among the readers of this blog then I would suggest that he has earned it.  It is not always this way with bias, but sometimes, what appears as "bias" to an Obama supporter is just reality.  Reality has a "liberal bias" that conservatives can't handle.  Reporters used to tend to be more liberal because they knew what was going on in the world but the owners of the media outlets are almost always conservatives.  The progressive blogs are reflecting reality, that Edwards is running a great campaign, but the MSM that reached a lot more people, is bias towards Obama and Clinton.  The difference is that progressive blogs give credit to Edwards because he deserves it.  The MSM has turned into the Hillary vs. Barack show because they are the two Democrats who they can easily sensationalize.  Obama and Clinton have gotten so much coverage it's ridiculous so those whining about Edwards getting the credit he deserves on progressive blogs don't really have any room to talk.  If someone is covering this campaign form the persepective of a progressive Democrat the coverage will naturally praise Edwards because he has led on so many crucial issues and he is running a substantive campaign.

By the way, have you ever heard of The Huffington Post? I love that blog but it seems to have an "Obama bias" so it's not like Obama supporters don't have a place to fuel up on their Kool Aid.


She just can't win.
by Progressive Populist 4 Edwards on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:17:56 PM EST

Re: Edwards Bias? (none / 0)

Of course being an Edwards supporter, you should realize that there is a lot of irony in you saying that.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Bias? (none / 0)

How is what I said in any way ironic.  of course an Edwards supporter is going to confront risiculous claims of a bias towards him when he has simply run a better, and a bolder campaign than Barack Obama.  I appreciate that Barack Obama is likable and he's a talented speaker and you think he is "cool" but as Walter Mondale once said to Gary Hart...

"WHERE'S THE BEEF?"

Obama is much better than the candidate he is allowing a legion of former Gephardt - Daschle advisors to make him out to be.  These guys lost their chance with their former bosses so now they convince Obama to run, and to run a "personality" based campaign campaign.

One question.

How in the hell is Barack Obama's personaliy, as cool of a guy as he is, going to help our country?

One more.

Do you really think that if he is elected there will somehow be a magical "consensus" that takes over DC.  Is everyone going to start singing "Koombaya"?  Will Dick Cheney go and apologize to the great senior senator from Vermont?  I doubt it.

The only way to make "small politics" disappear is to fore politicians in both parties (that means you Feinstein) to keep their ambitions and their egos in check.  The only way to do that is to force them to do what is right for the American people so they can get re-elected and hold on to the power they have that they hold onto like Gollum and his "precious"(I'm not a lord of the rings wiz so plese don't attack me if my analogy was not properly executed).

So far the Obama crowd has launched baseless attacks on Edwards based on a fictional claim of him "suing hospitals for millions".  Is that all you've got.  Do you claim that any outlet is biased that does not take part in the Obama-Hillary love in that the MSM has been obsessed with?  I'm sure that I share a lot of the same values with Obama supporters and in the long term we'll be working together.  But I don't understand why they seem to respond to fluff and they seem to get all angry about non-issues. Maybe it's a nutritional problem.  I suggest that they, along with their candidate, go and get some meat, because right now their campaign lacks it.


She just can't win.
by Progressive Populist 4 Edwards on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:50:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

I'm glad to see Hillary moving down towards Dennis territory.  Those negatives should have her gurus panicking.  She truly has no support in the grassroots.  


"The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country." - Robert F. Kennedy
by dmfox on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:22:46 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

I think some undecideds chose Edwards due to Elizabeth and her health.
I also think alot of Obama supporters are not going on mydd as often or as much due to the current anti Obama climate and setting up of flame wars by the owners.  I know I am not coming as often and I, for the first time, rated Edwards near the bottom because of the tendency of acting like the msm in their current piling on.
by vwcat on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:23:52 PM EST

were there more respondants this month? (none / 0)

i am really surprised to see edwards shoot up so high here. almost makes me wonder if there were not an infusion of new voters. there has been a lot of discussion btw the blogs about how mydd attracts a younger more pro-obama audience, and kos attracts an older more pro-edwards audience that could have brought some edwards voters over from kos.  


mydd straw poll vote: 1. other (gore) 2. unsure 3. dodd 4. edwards 5. obama
by colorless green ideas on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:29:30 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (3.00 / 1)

Except Obama supporters are not all younger.  I am older and yet I support obama.  I do think the current anti Obama drumming by mydd lately has done some to cause the polling this way.  I do believe like another poster remarked that the Obama supporters are checking in like me but, for the most part drifting away due to this.


by vwcat on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:36:07 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

i don't really see an anti-obama sentiment here, so much as a tendency to not give credit where credit is due (ex: the fox news debate, obama was the first to freeze them out).


mydd straw poll vote: 1. other (gore) 2. unsure 3. dodd 4. edwards 5. obama
by colorless green ideas on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:42:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

True, but that was in response to lying about him. Not going to the Fox News Debate was about signalling to the netroots that a candidate shared its values, and Edwards did that first.


Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 07:35:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

de-stuffing needs IP logging (none / 0)

While some people will cry foul for privacy/stalking/evil concerns, de-stuffing needs IP address logging along side each vote to properly see that someone is stuffing and sending a lot of votes from one source.

BetterPolls.com can do that, and can also export an anonymized vote dump so that you can see IPs simply as the order the source first showed up: 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, etc.

(Don't go to BetterPolls.com right now, I'm having ISP trouble and they say it should be back up tonight)


Start Running Better Polls
by bolson on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:47:32 PM EST

Re: de-stuffing needs IP logging (none / 0)

IP logging doesnt really make that much of a difference. With those who have their own modems, all it takes is to disconnect from the modem and then plug it back in. After you do that, you get a new IP address, defeating your purpose.


by apolitik on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:07:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: de-stuffing needs IP logging (none / 0)

True, but that is also a lot more of a pain in the ass as well to do.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: de-stuffing needs IP logging (none / 0)

Dpeends on how much you want to stuff the ballots. If you're going to take that much time to stuff ballots, you won't mind a few extra seconds or so to unplug and replug your modem back in.


by apolitik on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 09:46:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

You cannot compare this months results to last. It was done in a different style and thus are not compatable. To compare the results to last is simply ignorant. The Edwards massive boost is certainyl suspect, and should certainly be taken with caution.

And this "rank all of them" idea is not a good way to poll. And then to delete all ballots that only chose one candidate...why? My vote is for Obama, no question. Why should I need to rank the rest of them?


by mattmfm on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:05:48 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

What are you talking about? It was done in an identical style. The only thing that changed was the time.


by the wanderer on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:18:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

And the human element.... Chris weeding out and guessing the stuffers pretty much invalidates the poll numbers and makes the MOE astronomical.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:18:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

Bullshit. What do you think those number sequences were--random chance? I also told everyone beforehand how I would delete votes.

I am not "guessing" on the stuffers at all. Have you even looked at the data yourself? I made it available for public view.

Either make an argument, based on the data, or refrain from throwing around bullshit accusations.
by Chris Bowers on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 12:03:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

automatic repeat filter in perl (3.00 / 0)

#!/usr/bin/perl -w
# I just wrote this, it needs two passes through the raw data to pick up a case of stuffing split by another case of stuffing.

@history = ();

$hlen = 10;

$lineno = 0;

%bad=();

$dropped = 0;
$passed = 0;

while ( $line = <> ) {
    $dup = 0;
    if ( ! defined $bad{$line} ) {
        for ( $i = 0; $i <= $#history; $i++ ) {
            if ( $line eq $history[$i] ) {
                $dup++;
            }
        }
        if ( $dup > 2 ) {
            if ( ! defined $bad{$line} ) {
                $bad{$line} = [];
            }
        }
    }
    if ( $#history == $hlen ) {
        $oline = shift @history;
        if ( $ar = $bad{$oline} ) {
            push @{$ar}, $lineno;
            $dropped++;
        } else {
            print $oline;
            $passed++;
        }
        $lineno++;
    }
    push @history, $line;
}
while ( $oline = shift @history ) {
    if ( $ar = $bad{$oline} ) {
        push @{$ar}, $lineno;
        $dropped++;
    } else {
        print $oline;
        $passed++;
    }
    $lineno++;
}

while ( ($name,$lines) = each %bad ) {
    $name =~ s/[\r\n]+$//;
    print STDERR "\"$name\" at " . join(",", @{$lines} ) . "\n";
}
if ( $dropped ) {
    print STDERR "total $dropped dropped, $passed passed\n";
}


Start Running Better Polls
by bolson on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:14:57 PM EST

Favorites and second choices (3.00 / 0)

The way I leave it leaves 2032 votes that break down like this:

John Edwards as first choice (839) have second choice:

  • Barack Obama: 429 (51%)
  • Bill Richardson: 179 (21%)
  • Other: 59 (7%)
  • Hillary Clinton: 53 (6%)
  • [none]: 37 (4%)
  • Chris Dodd: 31 (4%)
  • Dennis Kucinich: 24 (3%)
  • Unsure: 17 (2%)
  • Joe Biden: 5 (1%)
  • Mike Gravel: 5 (1%)

Barack Obama as first choice (681) have second choice:

  • John Edwards: 369 (54%)
  • Bill Richardson: 157 (23%)
  • Hillary Clinton: 72 (11%)
  • Other: 39 (6%)
  • Dennis Kucinich: 19 (3%)
  • Joe Biden: 10 (1%)
  • Chris Dodd: 9 (1%)
  • Unsure: 5 (1%)
  • Mike Gravel: 1 (0%)

Bill Richardson as first choice (174) have second choice:

  • John Edwards: 74 (43%)
  • Barack Obama: 58 (33%)
  • Hillary Clinton: 22 (13%)
  • [none]: 6 (3%)
  • Joe Biden: 5 (3%)
  • Other: 4 (2%)
  • Dennis Kucinich: 2 (1%)
  • Unsure: 1 (1%)
  • Chris Dodd: 1 (1%)
  • Mike Gravel: 1 (1%)

Other as first choice (130) have second choice:

  • John Edwards: 60 (46%)
  • Barack Obama: 28 (22%)
  • Unsure: 16 (12%)
  • Bill Richardson: 14 (11%)
  • [none]: 8 (6%)
  • Dennis Kucinich: 1 (1%)
  • Hillary Clinton: 1 (1%)
  • Joe Biden: 1 (1%)
  • Mike Gravel: 1 (1%)

Hillary Clinton as first choice (90) have second choice:

  • Barack Obama: 33 (37%)
  • John Edwards: 30 (33%)
  • Bill Richardson: 11 (12%)
  • [none]: 8 (9%)
  • Other: 3 (3%)
  • Unsure: 2 (2%)
  • Chris Dodd: 2 (2%)
  • Mike Gravel: 1 (1%)

Unsure as first choice (41) have second choice:

  • John Edwards: 14 (34%)
  • Barack Obama: 9 (22%)
  • Other: 8 (20%)
  • [none]: 4 (10%)
  • Bill Richardson: 4 (10%)
  • Hillary Clinton: 1 (2%)
  • Mike Gravel: 1 (2%)

Dennis Kucinich as first choice (39) have second choice:

  • John Edwards: 13 (33%)
  • [none]: 12 (31%)
  • Bill Richardson: 5 (13%)
  • Barack Obama: 4 (10%)
  • Other: 2 (5%)
  • Hillary Clinton: 1 (3%)
  • Joe Biden: 1 (3%)
  • Mike Gravel: 1 (3%)

Chris Dodd as first choice (23) have second choice:

  • Hillary Clinton: 11 (48%)
  • John Edwards: 4 (17%)
  • Barack Obama: 3 (13%)
  • Dennis Kucinich: 2 (9%)
  • Unsure: 1 (4%)
  • Other: 1 (4%)
  • Joe Biden: 1 (4%)

Joe Biden as first choice (8) have second choice:

  • John Edwards: 3 (38%)
  • Barack Obama: 3 (38%)
  • Dennis Kucinich: 1 (12%)
  • Bill Richardson: 1 (12%)

Mike Gravel as first choice (7) have second choice:

  • Dennis Kucinich: 3 (43%)
  • Barack Obama: 2 (29%)
  • Chris Dodd: 1 (14%)
  • Bill Richardson: 1 (14%)

voters averaged 7.43 candidates voted on


Start Running Better Polls
by bolson on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:17:55 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

Rasmussen Poll
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Politica l%20Tracking/Favorables/Favorables.htm

Edwards the only one who beats everyone. I predict that Clinton drops out early, after first round in which she seconds and thirds, and we have a 2-man race to see who is #1 and who is #2.

Edwards (49%) Giuliani (43%)
Edwards (50%) Huckabee (41%)
Edwards (47%) McCain (38%)
Edwards (55%) Romney (29%)
Edwards (50%) Thompson (36%)


by mrobinsong on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:33:01 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

I still have to question the methodology and results.  The stuffing is unfortunate, but ultimately you inject a very qualitative element into something that is supposed to quantatative.  Before the Kucinich stuffing, Obama and Edwards were FAR CLOSER than 9%, it seems once the 1600 Kucinich votes happened, all hell broke lose witht he stuffing.  You honestly don't completely know what was stuffed and what wasn't... You even said some of it was very clever; maybe it wasn't clever but actual votes.  

Ultimately, your biases on weeding out the votes come into play.  None of those are intentional of course, but they do play into it.  Thus pulling out the stuffers ruins the validity of the polling as much as the stuffing does.  

I think the best bet is to basically get rid of the current site you are using.... I know MyDD's polling features don't give you the second choice demographics, but (and I could be wrong on this point) since you have to register to vote, it would create a more accurate poll, even if it doesn't have the secondary stuff.

TO get them both, maybe have the MyDD polling aspect AND Demochoice and have people vote in both.  Hence you will get a bit more accurate viewpoint overall.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:15:52 PM EST

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

I was the 34th vote, and I kept checking in.  Until the stuffing, Edwards was comfortably ahead every time I checked.


"And so in the place of the palace of privilege, we seek to build a temple out of faith and hope and charity."-FDR
by jallen on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:59:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: April Straw Poll Results (none / 0)

Observations: ranking Edwards last seems only to be limited to a small minority. The ultra-partisans may be motivated by wanting to weaken Edwards, they may have some other objective, but they're hardly statistically significant.

Similarly with ranking Obama last. It seems to me that those are the products of voters who either wish to denigrate Obama to help their candidate or just hate personality-based campaigns.

The distaste for Biden from some Edwards supporters is probably due to the appeal of Edwards - that he represents a position clearly qualitatively different from anything the Republicans offer, particularly on economic issues. It's similar with Richardson, except whereas in Biden's case it's 'bipartisanship' bringing him down, with Richardson it's his neoliberal economic stances.

As for Dodd, I think it's just that he has the type of message that might appeal to this site's constituency, he's just not a viable receptacle for this message, at least to a large audience. Maybe 20 years ago he might have been able to get traction, but he just doesn't have the pulpit so failing to do something radical leads to failure. Signing on to Feingold-Reid is a good idea, but it'll need to go further if he wants a snowball's chance in hell of the nomination.


Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 07:44:29 PM EST


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